Villa being discussed at length on Talksport right now

[Chris Smith]

Don't throw a hissy fit you clown

If you want to be treated with respect stop personalising things. I'm entitled to an opinion, we don't all have to think like you. Can you not just accept that when I say I'm going to give him time that's just what I'm going to do?

Are you that insecure that you can't cope with alternative views?

[Iago]

Don't throw a hissy fit you clown

If you want to be treated with respect stop personalising things. I'm entitled to an opinion, we don't all have to think like you. Can you not just accept that when I say I'm going to give him time that's just what I'm going to do?

Are you that insecure that you can't cope with alternative views?

Why give him time? It is not going to get any better under AM.

[Greg N'Ash]

you could say the same in reverse for bent. Look Chris i think you'd have to be stupid to claim GH was a roaring success but my feeling with him was he was planning to get to the summer, clean the decks, move trouble makers on and go from there. I also felt he had a plan how he wanted us to play even if it rarely materialised on the pitch. Add in the injury list that would have this squad on its kness, i thought there was justification for a certain optimism given his reported transfer targets. His illness obviously put paid to that but frankly i can't see any plan AM is putting forward apart from surviving as best he can and making sure we only lose by a goal or 2 instead of 4 or 5. I really, really do hope we're sitting here  in mid-janaury in roughly the same position after a good christmas and you're reminding everyone of this thread and the doom laden talk  but i can't see it. Shame because as others have said he does come over as a nice guy.

[Compass]

Don't throw a hissy fit you clown

If you want to be treated with respect stop personalising things. I'm entitled to an opinion, we don't all have to think like you. Can you not just accept that when I say I'm going to give him time that's just what I'm going to do?

Are you that insecure that you can't cope with alternative views?

I'm sorry? You've resorted into personalising things first by calling me a big dope. It's all there to see. It's not the first insult you've done either. If you want to be treated with respect then it goes both ways.

Back to your point about Houllier, I don't agree with at all. The squad he had was top 8. It wasn't top 6 because of the loss of Milner and losing a CM of his calibur was a very big deal. He had no pre-season and a massive injury crisis in the first half, but still finished 9th 1 point away from 8th. Overall he done a good job.

If you're going to mention how the managers affect the players then I'll turn round and say Houllier done very well with Albrighton, Bannan, Delph, Clark, Delfouneso and Lichaj (to an extent, he had Bale in his pocket). But with AM he is ruining all of them. Doesn't even bother using half of them. He is destroying our future generation.

[Chris Smith]

Greg, you might be right but that's all conjecture really. I'm talking about what we saw last season and, given the players he had and the money he was allowed to spend 9th was an under achievement. Not a massive one and, all things being equal, enough to give him more time.

I think the rebuilding job this season would have been massive and we all remember some of the duds he signed at Liverpool.

[glasses]

Trying to get a centre half to play in a style he's not suited to is as stupid as asking Barry Bannan to act as a target man. Just because Houllier had good ideas about how the game should be played, he must have I've seen it posted often enough, doesn't make him a good manager.

Yep, about as stupid as using Heskey in a midfield position. Oh wait...

You seem to be defending McLeish's anti football alot, which hasn't changed from Blues and Rangers. Do you like us not playing football? Do you even like football in general?

This is about Houllier you big dope. You really are obsessed, did a big ginger Scotsman steal your girlfriend or something?

Now, I'll explain it to you one more time. Please pay attention because it does get tiresome. I don't believe a third of a season is enough to judge a manager. That won't change just because you keep finding new ways to make the same point.

Don't throw a hissy fit you clown. Seeing as McLeish is the manager of Aston Villa I'd say discussing him is relevant in a Aston Villa forum. Don't you?

Also Houllier was a good manager. Forget about his positive football for a second. Firstly, he doesn't have relegations, he has superior achievements and left Liverpool with a legacy that won them the Champions League.

In his time at Villa he had no pre season, he had to deal with one of the biggest injury crisis this club has ever faced, could identify the bad apples who were holding us back, got us playing positive football and still managed us 9th after all thanks to his tactics that Gary Mac used.

Benitez won Liverpool the Champions League. It is insulting to suggest otherwise. Good managers use what they have and get the best out of it. I don't think Eck is doing that at the moment, just like Houllier last season. Eck deserves a chance though, and I agree with Chris.

[pauliewalnuts]

Clown this, dope that ...

It's a bit pointless. Can we all stop it, please?

[Chris Smith]

Compass, it was personalised when you made the inane remark about me not liking football. That wasn't a genuine question, just you trying to get a dig in because you hate people having different opinions.

Why does it bother you so much that I'm sticking to my guns? You aren't going to make me change my mind.

[Greg N'Ash]

Greg, you might be right but that's all conjecture really. I'm talking about what we saw last season and, given the players he had and the money he was allowed to spend 9th was an under achievement. Not a massive one and, all things being equal, enough to give him more time.

I think the rebuilding job this season would have been massive and we all remember some of the duds he signed at Liverpool.

oh i agree there. thats the 20m question really. Was he given the heave ho just because of the ticker or did Randy not fancy paying for his rebuilding?  Personally i thought what went on with certain individuals was embarrassing and for that reason alone Lerner should have allowed him to move them out, but its not my money.

[ROBBO]

We are a terrible side to watch this season, there doesn't seem to be any leadership on or off the field and i just can't see it getting any better. We need an influx of top players especially in midfield but am worried AM will buy in the basement and we end up with more Huttons.

[pauliewalnuts]

Greg, you might be right but that's all conjecture really. I'm talking about what we saw last season and, given the players he had and the money he was allowed to spend 9th was an under achievement. Not a massive one and, all things being equal, enough to give him more time.

I think the rebuilding job this season would have been massive and we all remember some of the duds he signed at Liverpool.

It would have been a big rebuilding job, and he's signed a few duds at Liverpool, but then again, look at some of the dross AM signed at Blues.

Someone mentioned this the other day, and I think it's right, but when Houllier said he'd "sort the defence out in the summer", we all assumed he meant in pre-season, and in terms of coaching. I now think he probably meant in terms of "they're rubbish, sell them and replace them".

I wanted to give Houllier the chance, and only really lost patience with him over his foot-in-mouth tendencies. hindsight is a wonderful thing, and seeing what we have now, and the football philosophy of the manager we have, I have a feeling that we went through the start of a painful modernising process last season, started seeing benefits at the end, then went three steps backward and appointed a traditional British manager. Absolutely inexplicable.

I also recall someone with decent links to the club telling me that some of the older players loathed Houllier's training methods (on the basis there was too much of it, and it involved working very hard), but that the younger players absolutely loved it.

I half expect part of the reason we saw that flurry of players slagging Houllier this season is because they're now happy back in their comfort zone, untroubled by pesky modern fitness routines, and we're starting to see some performances to back that up.

Of course, to be fair to McLeish, he's in a thankless position in that even if he wanted to ship out and replace some of the bad eggs (Collins, Dunne, Warnock et al), he wouldn't be able to, as the money's not there.

It all looks a bit of a mess, truth be told.

[garyshawsknee]

Greg, you might be right but that's all conjecture really. I'm talking about what we saw last season and, given the players he had and the money he was allowed to spend 9th was an under achievement. Not a massive one and, all things being equal, enough to give him more time.

I think the rebuilding job this season would have been massive and we all remember some of the duds he signed at Liverpool.

I know GH shot himself in the foot a few times with team selection and some of the things he came out with,but he did only take over after a transfer window,and for a good few weeks had a crippling injury list,probably the worse i can remember in the years ive been supporting the team. I was in agreement with his spats with some of the squad,some of them had it too easy under M ON,and reading about the incident with Sid,a couple of them are lucky to still be with the squad.

 Its worrying to hear what wouldve happened to Gab if GH stayed,a lot of Gabs problems were that he had his worse season for injuries,missing a lot of the summer, you could  that GH team didnt play to Gabs strengths,but you could say the same about A Mc and Bent right now.

[pauliewalnuts]

Houllier took over a club which had lost its talismanic manager five days before the start of the season, was being run by a cabal of well meaning but clueless executives, and came in a fifth of the way through the season, having been out of the game for a while.

He made plenty of mistakes, but last season was an absolute write off from the moment O'Neill quit, it was always going to be transitional, and we were never going to finish sixth.

[SamTheMouse]

Fair enough that you didn't like Houllier, Chris, but you say yourself a third of a season isn't enough to judge a manager. Given that Houllier didn't arrive until a few games in and had to leave very prematurely for health reasons, he didn't have anything like a full season, and certain not the all important summer transfer window.

Just don't think you're being consistent, is all...

[Toronto Villa]

Houllier challenged them. The stallwarts like Warnock, Dunne, Carew, Collins etc went from the culture shock of playing every week and drinking pints to being made accountable. Work hard, eat well, live close to the ground, pass the ball to feet. A lot to fucking ask I agree. Houllier bad ticker and everything likely didn't mince his words and you can't blame it on his English because it's better than McLeish's.

Houllier's plan was far too radical for the club at this time. I think the club bought him in because they felt given what was available that he was the right person. The board quickly realized once Houllier had done his assessment that he was right about how fucked it had become and they didn't have the stomach or resources to fix it as quickly as Houllier wanted.

The Plan B or whatever it is now is that AM will be asked to do the same thing as Houllier wanted but at a much more manageable pace (for the club). As fans we'll just have to bear with it.