Villa being discussed at length on Talksport right now

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm not convinced the defence is fine. The goals against column doesn't look too bad, I agree, but we looked okay in the opening games against Fulham, Blackburn, Wigan, QPR. We've really started shipping them in recent weeks. I'm concerned things are beginning to unravel back there and we're starting to decline.

Although only 1 conceded in the last 2 which suggests that they've settled down again.

I accept that they pay it long too often but a lot of that is players not showing for the ball, lacking the confidence to have it in tight positions. In the end hoofing it is the lesser of two evils compared to being caught in possession on the edge of your own box. I also don't think Given is as quick to see the opportunity to throw it out as Brad was and seems more comfortable launching it.

It isn't just about us hoofing it out to clear the ball, though.

That's also how we seem to build up our few attacks.

[charlie]

Its a poor version of Small Heath footie from last year, defence not sound or organised, often just desperate, attack as pointed out above is a case of who can get on the end of a long hoof. No bloody idea at all. Time for Eck to go.

[Steve R]

.....
His health couldn't be helped, but what do we do then? Go right back to the middle fucking ages with this horrid hoofball we play.

Calcio Neanderthale is the phrase I think you are looking for.

[QBVILLA]

I can't believe anyone is looking back on Houllier's time with misty eyes.Yes this season has been in the main shit, yes we're watching negative football but that's no excuse for amnesia.Just to jog your memories.......
Sunderland home
Wolves home
Man City league
Man City the great FA Cup surrender
Liverpool,the love in

By all means credit where credit is due, we did well against Man Utd for 70 minutes, but come on Houllier??If great football is seeing your team concede nigh on 60 goals in the league and not secure Premiership safety until the 37th game of the season then that dipstick is a genius.

[nick harper]

I can't believe anyone is looking back on Houllier's time with misty eyes.Yes this season has been in the main shit, yes we're watching negative football but that's no excuse for amnesia.Just to jog your memories.......
Sunderland home
Wolves home
Man City league
Man City the great FA Cup surrender
Liverpool,the love in

By all means credit where credit is due, we did well against Man Utd for 70 minutes, but come on Houllier??If great football is seeing your team concede nigh on 60 goals in the league and not secure Premiership safety until the 37th game of the season then that dipstick is a genius.

I don't think anyone is saying there weren't disasters just as there were some great moments (Man City at home amongst others) - it was that his football philosophy was showing signs of beginning to bear fruit.

We'll never know but given a full close season to prepare, we might have had a side that was at least pleasing on the eye, that went out to win every game and weren't the laughing stock of the league.

[Mister E]

I'm not convinced the defence is fine. The goals against column doesn't look too bad, I agree, but we looked okay in the opening games against Fulham, Blackburn, Wigan, QPR. We've really started shipping them in recent weeks. I'm concerned things are beginning to unravel back there and we're starting to decline.

The avg goals conceded per game is worse than the Bloose over the same period last season. That's why we should be very afraid, particularly since their start was against slightly better oppo.

[SoccerHQ]

Tbh any comparison with SHA last season is a red herring imo.

They were relegated on 39 points which was the highest since 2003.

This season teams will stay up on 35 or 36 points (another 19 draws then!) as I can't see anyway the likes of Bolton, Wigan and Blackburn will get more than that.

[Concrete John]

I can't believe anyone is looking back on Houllier's time with misty eyes.Yes this season has been in the main shit, yes we're watching negative football but that's no excuse for amnesia.Just to jog your memories.......
Sunderland home
Wolves home
Man City league
Man City the great FA Cup surrender
Liverpool,the love in

By all means credit where credit is due, we did well against Man Utd for 70 minutes, but come on Houllier??If great football is seeing your team concede nigh on 60 goals in the league and not secure Premiership safety until the 37th game of the season then that dipstick is a genius.

I don't think anyone is saying there weren't disasters just as there were some great moments (Man City at home amongst others) - it was that his football philosophy was showing signs of beginning to bear fruit.

We'll never know but given a full close season to prepare, we might have had a side that was at least pleasing on the eye, that went out to win every game and weren't the laughing stock of the league.

Two things:-
1.  He wouldn't have had a full pre-season as wasn't medically cleared to return in time.
2.  We were crap under him, until Randy dug deep and bought us out of trouble.  His inability to handle Dunne and Collins, who are not blameless in this either, put us in jeopardy until they made peace.  Both would have left had he stayed, as would Ash and Downing, plus probably Gabby.  That's a big ask to replace 5 key players with our wages issue.

[Concrete John]

I'm not convinced the defence is fine. The goals against column doesn't look too bad, I agree, but we looked okay in the opening games against Fulham, Blackburn, Wigan, QPR. We've really started shipping them in recent weeks. I'm concerned things are beginning to unravel back there and we're starting to decline.

Although only 1 conceded in the last 2 which suggests that they've settled down again.

I accept that they pay it long too often but a lot of that is players not showing for the ball, lacking the confidence to have it in tight positions. In the end hoofing it is the lesser of two evils compared to being caught in possession on the edge of your own box. I also don't think Given is as quick to see the opportunity to throw it out as Brad was and seems more comfortable launching it.

It isn't just about us hoofing it out to clear the ball, though.

That's also how we seem to build up our few attacks.

I won't argue that they back players hit it long, but I will argue that they don't have any other options when they do.  That's still down to McLeish to get the team moving properly off the ball, but the 'hoof' as it's now been dubbed is the symptom, not the cause.

[django]

I think Blackburn are poor but they have a decent spine, Robinson, Samba, Hoylett, Yakubu. I also think there are signs of a togetherness there that we lack.

Bolton are struggling but have had the toughest opening fixtures of any side where we had the easiest start. Not sure if they have a lot of quality though.

Wigan are dreadful.

Think it's between those three, the promoted sides and us to be fair. Not sure we can feel confident about it though with our current form.

[OzVilla]

We can all re-write history abit to suit an arguement but MON's tenure was not nearly as bad as some make out and let's be frank Houllier was a complete disaster. Took us backwards at as fast a rate as anybody since Billy McNeill (and I include the reign of David O'Fuckwit in that).

We started thinking and talking small as a Club the day MON walked out and we still haven't stopped imo.   It'll become a self fulfilling prophacy if we're not careful.  Like him or loath him, it seems the MON departure left a vacum that has not been filled at the Club at any level 18 months on.   

[OzVilla]

I don't think anyone is saying there weren't disasters just as there were some great moments (Man City at home amongst others) - it was that his football philosophy was showing signs of beginning to bear fruit.

Do me a favour, Man City at home - from memory they should have buried us about 3 times over in that match.

[nick harper]

I don't think anyone is saying there weren't disasters just as there were some great moments (Man City at home amongst others) - it was that his football philosophy was showing signs of beginning to bear fruit.

Do me a favour, Man City at home - from memory they should have buried us about 3 times over in that match.

Maybe, but the team spirit and commitment is light years from what we're seeing now...and it was exciting to watch.

[pauliewalnuts]

I can't believe anyone is looking back on Houllier's time with misty eyes.Yes this season has been in the main shit, yes we're watching negative football but that's no excuse for amnesia.Just to jog your memories.......
Sunderland home
Wolves home
Man City league
Man City the great FA Cup surrender
Liverpool,the love in

By all means credit where credit is due, we did well against Man Utd for 70 minutes, but come on Houllier??If great football is seeing your team concede nigh on 60 goals in the league and not secure Premiership safety until the 37th game of the season then that dipstick is a genius.

Houllier was like Guardiola compared to McLeish.

[ktvillan]

Strange how to some people saying Houllier had some good ideas that were showing signs of bearing fruit, tried to play proper football,  and wasn't a complete disaster = Houllier was a genius.  There's nothing like a bit of hyperbole to get your point across I suppose.   

As for misty eyed amnesia and re-writing history, I clearly remember us stringing more than three passes together several times, and at least trying to score goals. Not much, but way better than what we have now.