Can we have our club back please

[Chris Smith]

I personally feel that there's been a bit of an over-reaction from a few on here today. Understandably i might add and there's a lot of truth that's been spoken, but a bit of an over-reaction in some quarters all the same.

Last night was our third league defeat, the others being against an outstanding Man City side and unfortunatley a derby, a game we were doing ok in until Phil Dowd intervened.

Last night was McCleish's first real big howler since taking over (although Bolton was'nt pretty). He got it horribly wrong and we've got to hope he realises how wrong he got it.

I think we should get to the end of the year and look at it then, that's fair i think but he's not going to get away with many more team selections and perfomances like that.

Sounds about right to me. We played well in the previous game but that's just ignored in the rush to jump on the bandwagon.

We're at the start of a rebuilding process, there are going to be ups and downs and there will undoubtedly be mistakes nade along the way but having made the decision to appoint McLeish they have to give him time to prove himself.

[brian green]

I shall feel much less critical of Alex McLeish when we play well against a really good team with him in charge.

I do not feel there is a bandwagon effect with the criticism of the manager.   A bandwagon the way I interpret the expression is a condition which builds up momentum and the anti McLeish feeling has been there since the day he was appointed.   I do not see it as a situation where we have suddenly turned against him.   In my own very personal opinion I think he was extremely lucky to to get the job and it was always his responsibility to prove that he could cope with it successfully.

In the near half a season he has been in charge there have been flashes of improvement like the second half at QPR and the Norwich game but the rest has been dire player power put it in Row ZZ stuff.

We have no choice but to allow the McLeish management term to run its course and look forward to better days some time in the future.   The club has charted its course put its man at the wheel and battened down the hatches.   Our morphing into Birmingham City is a price they are clearly prepared to pay.   Our future will largely be shaped by luck.

[Chris Smith]

Brian, you mean near "third of a season".

Of course it's a bandwagon, some were not prepared to give him even 5 minutes while others on this very thread have said things like "final straw" etc. We've had 12 league games.

I thought at the start of the season that we were in transition. We lost our two best players and the manager was working largely with another man's squad. If you accept that fact that it becomes much easier to deal with ups and downs.

The signs were good after Norwich and Sunderland in both we played good football and posed a real goal threat. Unfortunately for the romantics those are the important games to us at the moment, we're just not on the same page as Spurs or Man City.

[Hookeysmith]

All the talk this week has been about "bottleless" "Cowardly"  in regard to the team and the tactics

He has 2 ways to dispel this:

a/ Picks exactly the same 11 and tells them to put it right and "you owe the fans"

or

b/ Drops a good few of them on principle (the main culprits being Collins / Hutton / Heskey) and selects a team that goes after Swansea to tear them a new arsehole

I know which one i would go for but sadly i also feel the invevitibility of it not being the same choice as AM

If he gets Sunday wrong (and its not win at all costs - its more about having the bottle to change things i can accept losing to a degree) then he really should have the grace to walk away whilst we still have some semblence of a chance to resurrect the season before we are dragged into the relegation dog fight

[sid1964]

Personally, I feel that he has been given a fairly easy ride so far, no one getting at him during the home matches, BUT I think that now we will start to see supporters turn against him, and become more vocal against him.

[Jimbo]

If he gets Sunday wrong (and its not win at all costs - its more about having the bottle to change things i can accept losing to a degree) then he really should have the grace to walk away whilst we still have some semblence of a chance to resurrect the season before we are dragged into the relegation dog fight

The big problem here is he simply cannot walk away, or be sacked, until we have someone on the board who understands how football works, and who can help us get the right replacement in. Can you imagine yet another managerial appointment debacle coming swiftly after the last two? It could drag on for weeks, and further undermine any semblance of confidence the players, staff and fans might have in the board - and themselves. Until Randy sees the light and sorts that problem out, we'll be floundering. It's a huge and fundamental problem.

[john e]

Brian, you mean near "third of a season".

Of course it's a bandwagon, some were not prepared to give him even 5 minutes while others on this very thread have said things like "final straw" etc. We've had 12 league games.

I thought at the start of the season that we were in transition. We lost our two best players and the manager was working largely with another man's squad. If you accept that fact that it becomes much easier to deal with ups and downs.

The signs were good after Norwich and Sunderland in both we played good football and posed a real goal threat. Unfortunately for the romantics those are the important games to us at the moment, we're just not on the same page as Spurs or Man City.

even in the bad old days i still cant remember a Villa team defending a 2 nill loss,
 sometimes you just have a bad day, it happens, but you dont set your stall out for it which is what AM did.

you might think Spurs away was just one of those things, beaten by a better team etc, but Mcliesh's management career has built on that type of team selection and tactics, it wasnt just a one off, thats the problem.

everyone was up in arms over his appointment not because of his Blues connections [although that didnt help] but because of his managment methods which we feared were exactly as we saw on monday night,
 its the old saying of 'you get what it says on the tin' and what it says on AM's tin is the most boring negative football i think i can remember, not particulary at the begining of the season with Villa admitidly but on monday night and obviously through all his years at Blues.

theres just no getting away with it, we have what we have, and thats it, we cant change it , i would like a change in manager but i accept its not going to happen,

but its not a judgement of Mcliesh over the last 12 games at Villa, its a realisation that he will not change his methods, and he is what he's always been, and thats not good, and theres no point pretending otherwise

[markeeeebeeee2005]

I will be supporting Villa longer than AM is in charge. I'm sure he will be out either at the end of this season or early next.

The one positive I can take from the whole debacle is that I can't afford to watch the turgid crap that is being served up.

[Risso]

I thought at the start of the season that we were in transition. We lost our two best players and the manager was working largely with another man's squad. If you accept that fact that it becomes much easier to deal with ups and downs.

I think it's clear that under Lerner from now on, the downs are going to outnumber the ups by some considerable margin.  Fans can see this, which is why they're staying away in droves.

[Rick_avfc]

Im pretty sure that had he decided to play a more attacking style against spurs then we wouldnt be so disgruntled had we lost. The fact that we played worse than a pub team with a defensive mind set just shows that he was set up for damage limitation.  Even at 2-0 down at HT for some bizarre reason, he decided to keep the same 11 and same tactics.  what was the point in that??  I'm a strong believer that you should have a go at teams not sit back and invite the pressure.

I wasn't at all keen on the appoint of Eck but was willing to give him a chance.  Ok, we are 8th in the league but thats as high as we will go.  He is going to be under some real pressure come december especially with the game we have.  The board will not sack him though.  They will stick with him all the way.

[Mazrim]

If he gets Sunday wrong (and its not win at all costs - its more about having the bottle to change things i can accept losing to a degree) then he really should have the grace to walk away whilst we still have some semblence of a chance to resurrect the season before we are dragged into the relegation dog fight

The big problem here is he simply cannot walk away, or be sacked, until we have someone on the board who understands how football works, and who can help us get the right replacement in. Can you imagine yet another managerial appointment debacle coming swiftly after the last two? It could drag on for weeks, and further undermine any semblance of confidence the players, staff and fans might have in the board - and themselves. Until Randy sees the light and sorts that problem out, we'll be floundering. It's a huge and fundamental problem.

I completely agree.

[jonzy85]

Im pretty sure that had he decided to play a more attacking style against spurs then we wouldnt be so disgruntled had we lost. The fact that we played worse than a pub team with a defensive mind set just shows that he was set up for damage limitation.  Even at 2-0 down at HT for some bizarre reason, he decided to keep the same 11 and same tactics.  what was the point in that??  I'm a strong believer that you should have a go at teams not sit back and invite the pressure.

I wasn't at all keen on the appoint of Eck but was willing to give him a chance.  Ok, we are 8th in the league but thats as high as we will go.  He is going to be under some real pressure come december especially with the game we have.  The board will not sack him though.  They will stick with him all the way.

Have to agree with all of the above.

I think it is also worth noting that when we saw the fixture list we all remarked on the easy start we had. Yet we have lost as many as we have won. 8th is a false position and by January, I think we will see this.

The bandwagon comments are a bit unfair. Many of us have said from day 1 he was the wrong man. He has done nothing to dispell that. Monday night was the first time it came into sharp focus and I think a lot of the posters, like me, fear what is going to happen to us over the next month.

I really hope McLeish shows the ability to get some results and perhaps as importantly, some good performances. We shall see.

[RonBurgundy]

My one hope is that having seen that gutless display he will not attempt to do the same raising of the white flag from the off when we play the bigger teams.
Not holding out much hope though.

My overiding image of this season so far is Villa taking a kick off, passing it back to Collins to launch the ball down the pitch towards Heskey. Repeat whenever possible.

[garyshawsknee]

Im pretty sure that had he decided to play a more attacking style against spurs then we wouldnt be so disgruntled had we lost. The fact that we played worse than a pub team with a defensive mind set just shows that he was set up for damage limitation.  Even at 2-0 down at HT for some bizarre reason, he decided to keep the same 11 and same tactics.  what was the point in that??  I'm a strong believer that you should have a go at teams not sit back and invite the pressure.

I wasn't at all keen on the appoint of Eck but was willing to give him a chance.  Ok, we are 8th in the league but thats as high as we will go.  He is going to be under some real pressure come december especially with the game we have.  The board will not sack him though.  They will stick with him all the way.

Have to agree with all of the above.

I think it is also worth noting that when we saw the fixture list we all remarked on the easy start we had. Yet we have lost as many as we have won. 8th is a false position and by January, I think we will see this.

The bandwagon comments are a bit unfair. Many of us have said from day 1 he was the wrong man. He has done nothing to dispell that. Monday night was the first time it came into sharp focus and I think a lot of the posters, like me, fear what is going to happen to us over the next month.

I really hope McLeish shows the ability to get some results and perhaps as importantly, some good performances. We shall see.

Spot on,he's only delivering what a lot of us feared he would,negative,limited tactics,yes its only 12 games,but we've easily been out played and passed in more than half of them. And with next months fixtures being tough,I can't see it improving unless he has a major rethink of his basic game plan.

[DB]

 

Brian, you mean near "third of a season".

Of course it's a bandwagon, some were not prepared to give him even 5 minutes while others on this very thread have said things like "final straw" etc. We've had 12 league games.

I thought at the start of the season that we were in transition. We lost our two best players and the manager was working largely with another man's squad. If you accept that fact that it becomes much easier to deal with ups and downs.

The signs were good after Norwich and Sunderland in both we played good football and posed a real goal threat. Unfortunately for the romantics those are the important games to us at the moment, we're just not on the same page as Spurs or Man City.

Chris, I can accept we are not on the same page as them, but I do expect to put up a fight when we play those teams. Monday night AMc had accepted a loss before the match had started. It's not the fact we had lost, it was how we lost - gutless. We didn't show at any point we wanted to win or had the belief.