Have we seen the last of Mr. Lerner and the General?

[Merv]

Agree that the summer should demonstrate whether we are truly in a transitional phase, requiring us to cut back on wages and transfer fees and then rebuilding again, more rationally this time, or whether the whole 'we need to save on wages' message that is - or was - being trotted out is just a smokescreen for something more long-term and more worrying.

Is it a temporary blip or the start of the kind of situation Everton are now in?

Come the end of the season, if they are still at the club, Cuellar, Beye and Heskey could all be released, saving another hefty chunk in wages. By then, I'd say we'd have just about cut our senior squad to the absolute bone. We should - if certain people are being honest - then be able to re-invest, and start making up ground on the top six again....

[ktvillan]

So. Mr Smith,  it's allowed for you , by your own admission, to be critical of individual decisions that you didn't agree with, but,  even when you are one of the most vocal critics, like when MON walked out, it 's a lie to say you were one of RL's biggest critics.  On the other hand it's not allowed for anyone else to be critical of a whole series of individual decisions that they didn't agree with ?  Is that it?   I'm so glad we've cleared that up and removed any hint of hypocrisy on your part.     

It's not the criticism it was calling him a congenital idiot that I took exception to, however you try to justify it that sort of abuse is uncalled for but is, sadly, typical of the way you conduct yourself.

Now, can you we get back on topic instead of having to defend myself against your increasingly hysterical attacks.

Let's be quite clear,  you took it off topic in the first place by getting all shrill about a throw away comment that didn't bother anyone else in the slightest, and hardly constitutes abuse when compared to some of the offensive barbs you've aimed at me and others on here yourself.  So I really don't know why you are getting all high,  mighty, precious, pompous and hypocritical about it.  But sadly it's typical of the way you conduct yourself.

While we're back on topic, what in my list of criticisms of Randy do you disagree with, and which out of those make him look like he's fully competent to run an English Football Club? 

[Concrete John]

That's pretty much what I'm expecting/hoping for, Merv.

Lets imagine for a moment that we are now where Randy wants to be wages wise, but can't take anymore on.  The three players you mention must be on circa £150,000 a week, which if we shop carefully should pay for 3-4 good signings.  So you take the squad we have now, minus those three, and then add in the likes of Justin Hoilett from Blackburn, or players of that ilk, and suddenly we're looking a much better outfit. 

[Merv]

Intrigued/worried to see how it's going to pan out, John. 12 months ago I'd have trusted the club - now, after the 'top four... oops, meant fifth', the 'manager will be backed' and the 'we're going to select the most unpopular manager we can think of - and give him the job' incidents, I'm not so confident. I'm worried there might have been a dramatic u-turn.

We'll just to see, I guess!

[eastie]

I think randy has given up on his top 4 ambition as it would take far more investment on players than we can afford and is perhaps content to be in the premiership around the mid- table positions, i do not expect him to sanction big signings next summer ,and see the top 8 or top 10 as the height of ambition for the foreseeable future sadly.

There is no doubt randy gave it a good go and chased his dream and got close , but that dream has now well and truly died in my opinion.

[nick harper]

I think randy has given up on his top 4 ambition as it would take far more investment on players than we can afford and is perhaps content to be in the premiership around the mid- table positions, i do not expect him to sanction big signings next summer ,and see the top 8 or top 10 as the height of ambition for the foreseeable future sadly.

There is no doubt randy gave it a good go and chased his dream and got close , but that dream has now well and truly died in my opinion.

I agree with this. What we also need to bear in mind is I guess they are also budgeting for quite a drop in income over the coming months - lower league place, lower gates, fewer appearances on Sky compared to the MON days where we seemd to be on every other week.

We could see income drop by 10% or more.

[Risso]

That's pretty much what I'm expecting/hoping for, Merv.

Lets imagine for a moment that we are now where Randy wants to be wages wise, but can't take anymore on.  The three players you mention must be on circa £150,000 a week, which if we shop carefully should pay for 3-4 good signings.  So you take the squad we have now, minus those three, and then add in the likes of Justin Hoilett from Blackburn, or players of that ilk, and suddenly we're looking a much better outfit. 

I think what you don't realise John is that there is a massive hole in the accounts.  We've made nearly a £100m loss over the last two years, and the loans to the Lerner Trust are going to start becoming due in the next few years.  He's either going to have to start making some pretty big profits, or he's going to have to sell.  Or make a load of new cash from somewhere.

[Billy Walker]

I think randy has given up on his top 4 ambition as it would take far more investment on players than we can afford and is perhaps content to be in the premiership around the mid- table positions, i do not expect him to sanction big signings next summer ,and see the top 8 or top 10 as the height of ambition for the foreseeable future sadly.

There is no doubt randy gave it a good go and chased his dream and got close , but that dream has now well and truly died in my opinion.

I agree with this. What we also need to bear in mind is I guess they are also budgeting for quite a drop in income over the coming months - lower league place, lower gates, fewer appearances on Sky compared to the MON days where we seemd to be on every other week.

We could see income drop by 10% or more.

I agree with you that they seem to be budgeting for a drop in income, which makes the communication with season ticket holders, the expressed aim of being in the top twenty European clubs for revenue, baffling.  It's the one measurable target the Board expressed in the summer - and I'd be mightily (and happily) surprised if they achieve it.

[Fergal]

I can see beyond AM, by Christmas I hope.  He is an appointment that shows a complete lack of ambition by an owner who seems to have given up.

I don't think he's given up, I still believe Randy Lerner thinks AM can be our David Moyes. What will be interesting is what happens in the summer and yes, I still expect McLeish to be here in the summer.

Randy should be over here rallying the troops and managing the situation.

[cheltenhamlion]

The only reason we had a Deloitte top twenty target was because we had already hit it. It was an exercise in attempting to demonstrate competence and that we were moving forwards.

Unfortunately, most season tickets holders aren't business aware enough to cut through that wanky jargon and were therefore nonplussed at their letter.

Does your average punter really give a fuck about turnover? Of course they don't.

[Risso]

I can see beyond AM, by Christmas I hope.  He is an appointment that shows a complete lack of ambition by an owner who seems to have given up.

I don't think he's given up, I still believe Randy Lerner thinks AM can be our David Moyes. What will be interesting is what happens in the summer and yes, I still expect McLeish to be here in the summer.

Other than being Scottish, there really isn't a lot to say that McLeish is the new David Moyes, and I don't for a second think that that's why he was appointed anyway.  He's being tasked to shore up the defence, not make a fuss about not having money to spend, while Lerner looks around for a way out.

[midnite]

You're right Chris, we are in the same situation spurs found themselves in a few years ago. They fell well behind ad sacked Ramos. The difference is they went and got 'ld 'arry. Like our manager he has relegation on his cv (I think I've got that fact right. Apologies if not). But you always knew redknapp would be able to do a job. Especially when inheriting a pretty decent squad in which he did. Watching them the other day against QPR, I really enjoyed the football on show. Harry has got them movin off the ball so well.
Now we've gone and appojntmet McLeish, not a popular appoinents in the slightest. But still even with the losses of young and downing McLeish still like Harry inherited a pretty good squad. But watching them so far this year, it's dull, boring dross and you're wondering where that spark is going to come from. Who is goin to step up to the plate and become the new villa hero. Instead every player seems to be scratching their heads after the first 20 mins thinking "well this hasn't worked so far. No what do we do?"
When McLeish was appointed I was in the let's give him a chance camp. I understand it's hard. A new club for him, the lifeblood of the midfield gone and startin forms scratch. But by now I would be hoping that things would be settling down, there would be glimmers of hope. Even if we lose the games but at least you can see what is tryin to be achieved but there is nothing. Until the genius moment of taking off N'Zogbia, who granted hasn't been playing up to the standards we know he can, but who will always to and create a chance and put on Heskey in midfield. For me that was as bizarre as when under houllier we had bannan at centr back with Collins and dune up front against Sunderland last year (I think it was).
We lose in Saturday I think a lot of people will be getting restless an boos will start to ring out. And calls for McLeish's head will start. It's only down hill from there.

Like you Chris, the board in my view have a lot of goodwill in the bank. It's not like this manager decission was made out of spite. He genuinely thinks it can work. So if this goes sour then there will be a dent in that good will and it will make you nervous as to who then will then go and get.

Sorry for the long post everyone... It's been a long train journey home.

[luke25]

You're right Chris, we are in the same situation spurs found themselves in a few years ago. They fell well behind ad sacked Ramos. The difference is they went and got 'ld 'arry. Like our manager he has relegation on his cv (I think I've got that fact right. Apologies if not). But you always knew redknapp would be able to do a job. Especially when inheriting a pretty decent squad in which he did. Watching them the other day against QPR, I really enjoyed the football on show. Harry has got them movin off the ball so well.

He commented after the match how good there movement off the ball was, this is the single most thing that has annoyed the fuck out of me at Villa for years, our movement off the ball, its non-existant and has been as far back as I can remember, definately as far back as Gregory anyway, drives me insane.

[PeterWithesShin]

I'm with Luke, our off the ball movement is abysmal and has been been for donkeys ages. Even at throw ins our players rarely seem to move, it's as if the concept of move to create space for yourself or a team-mate has never been thought of down B6.

[bertlambshank]

I'm with Luke, our off the ball movement is abysmal and has been been for donkeys ages. Even at throw ins our players rarely seem to move, it's as if the concept of move to create space for yourself or a team-mate has never been thought of down B6.

Our lack of movement at throw ins boils my piss.