Have we seen the last of Mr. Lerner and the General?

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

I think the real irony is that today is National Stress Awareness Day.

Don't worry be happy

[ktvillan]

Of course it's irony, it's also hypocrisy because you are more guilty of what you accuse others of.   But perhaps you can't see it because you're right, for once, you don't know what extreme is.  Perhaps an example would help.  I don't know, something like a year long one-man defence of a manager called David O'Leary whom everyone and his dog could see was a twat.  Or did you just make an arse of yourself for an entire year to be controversial? 

You seem unable to handle anyone disagreeing with whichever side of the coin you happen to feel like suporting on any given day.   I see today you are Randy's staunchest defender and getting all teary cos someone called him a few names,  (even though everyone except you seems to have been able to take the comment in the tongue-in-cheek spirit it was so obviously intended).  Previously you've been one of his biggest critics.  It's difficult to have a rational debate with people like you jumping from one side of it to the other so frequently and getting all prissy when your current favourite gets a bit of justifiable criticism.       

[Chris Smith]

Please point ou where I have been one of hid biggest critics? You won't be able to find it because once again you've just made it up, or to put it another way - you're a liar.

I've criticised individual decisions that I didn't agree with but overall I have been supportive if the job they have done and even now accept that we're in a period of transition.

First you accuse me of sticking to my guns over O'Leary then you try to pretend I jump from one point of view to another. Make your fucking mind up.

[Chris Smith]

No, it is't irony. If calling the owner a congenital idiot because he doesn't do exactly as you want isn't extreme then I don't know what is. Is that your true opinion of him or were you just posting to be controversial?

I have concerns with the direction the club is going but just calling them names like you do and branding those of us who go to games as mental like BCV hinders any attempts at rational debate.

Calling people mental doesn't help rational debate, no, but nor does calling them a "complete ass" or "extremists".  Surely you can see that?

If people hold extreme views then they are extremists and I think one or two people fall into that category. Compass is just a Nose on the wind up isn't he?

I'd just like to be able to discuss this without it descending into the usual polarised debate, where you are either totLly for or totally agInst. I accept that the club keeping quiet has fuelled some of the speculation, I understand that the cut backs aren't popular and that some people can't see beyond AM but for me they still have plenty of goodwill in the bank and so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt while going through what I hope is just a transition period.

[Risso]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

[ktvillan]

So. Mr Smith,  it's allowed for you , by your own admission, to be critical of individual decisions that you didn't agree with, but,  even when you are one of the most vocal critics, like when MON walked out, it 's a lie to say you were one of RL's biggest critics.  On the other hand it's not allowed for anyone else to be critical of a whole series of individual decisions that they didn't agree with ?  Is that it?   I'm so glad we've cleared that up and removed any hint of hypocrisy on your part.     

[Fergal]

No, it is't irony. If calling the owner a congenital idiot because he doesn't do exactly as you want isn't extreme then I don't know what is. Is that your true opinion of him or were you just posting to be controversial?

I have concerns with the direction the club is going but just calling them names like you do and branding those of us who go to games as mental like BCV hinders any attempts at rational debate.

Calling people mental doesn't help rational debate, no, but nor does calling them a "complete ass" or "extremists".  Surely you can see that?

If people hold extreme views then they are extremists and I think one or two people fall into that category. Compass is just a Nose on the wind up isn't he?

I'd just like to be able to discuss this without it descending into the usual polarised debate, where you are either totLly for or totally agInst. I accept that the club keeping quiet has fuelled some of the speculation, I understand that the cut backs aren't popular and that some people can't see beyond AM but for me they still have plenty of goodwill in the bank and so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt while going through what I hope is just a transition period.

I can see beyond AM, by Christmas I hope.  He is an appointment that shows a complete lack of ambition by an owner who seems to have given up.

[Ads]

I've got to agree with Mr Smith, I believe the Compass points to B9.

[Concrete John]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

While I agree mistakes have beem made, I don't see what makes them so unrecoverable?

[Risso]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

While I agree mistakes have beem made, I don't see what makes them so unrecoverable?

Because they've cost so much money, and apaprently even after selling the family silver we're still making big losses.  So even if you accept Chris's description of "transition", in those 2 two years say, we're seeing the gap widen all the time.  We've fallen behind the other top 6 contenders like Spurs and Liverpool, and are now seeing the likes of Stoke and Fulham catch us up.

[Concrete John]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

While I agree mistakes have beem made, I don't see what makes them so unrecoverable?

Because they've cost so much money, and apaprently even after selling the family silver we're still making big losses.  So even if you accept Chris's description of "transition", in those 2 two years say, we're seeing the gap widen all the time.  We've fallen behind the other top 6 contenders like Spurs and Liverpool, and are now seeing the likes of Stoke and Fulham catch us up.

I think it's a matter of what the problems are.  If, as we've widely been lead to believe, it's all about the wages then it's short term until certain contracts run out.  That would mean that money spent and then recooped on fees is sitting there waiting for a time when we can spend it again.  If you're referring to our commercial profile and income generating ability, then this has taken a blow from the MON days and will take a while, and no little skill, to build up again. 

But football is a cyclical beast and whoever is on the up now will inevitably be on the down again at some point in the future.  Case in point is Chelsea, who look to be on the slide despite still having their billionaire owner.  OK, we're not in a position where we can capitalise on that, but should we put our house in order, both on and off the pitch, our time will come again.
 

[WA Villan]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

 While I agree mistakes have beem made, I don't see what makes them so unrecoverable?

Same feelings here, it might take some time and a different approach with a lot less money. I'm very optimistic, we have got to get rid of some dross and unearth some lower division gems. A bit further down the track, after Mcleish has hopefully steadied the ship a new young upcoming manager. Stop buying drop kicks, ie Ireland and any other player who needs an arm around them and bring on some of the academy players. We all brought in to the buying the success thing, and we made the biggest mistake in believing in the Mon myth crap bullshit. We had our heads turned by the hype of it all.

[Chris Smith]

So. Mr Smith,  it's allowed for you , by your own admission, to be critical of individual decisions that you didn't agree with, but,  even when you are one of the most vocal critics, like when MON walked out, it 's a lie to say you were one of RL's biggest critics.  On the other hand it's not allowed for anyone else to be critical of a whole series of individual decisions that they didn't agree with ?  Is that it?   I'm so glad we've cleared that up and removed any hint of hypocrisy on your part.     

It's not the criticism it was calling him a congenital idiot that I took exception to, however you try to justify it that sort of abuse is uncalled for but is, sadly, typical of the way you conduct yourself.

Now, can you we get back on topic instead of having to defend myself against your increasingly hysterical attacks.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I can see beyond AM, by Christmas I hope.  He is an appointment that shows a complete lack of ambition by an owner who seems to have given up.

I don't think he's given up, I still believe Randy Lerner thinks AM can be our David Moyes. What will be interesting is what happens in the summer and yes, I still expect McLeish to be here in the summer.

[Chris Smith]

Well I think they've made huge mistakes over the last few years, mistakes that I don't think we'll fully recover from under Lerner's ownership.

While I agree mistakes have beem made, I don't see what makes them so unrecoverable?

Because they've cost so much money, and apaprently even after selling the family silver we're still making big losses.  So even if you accept Chris's description of "transition", in those 2 two years say, we're seeing the gap widen all the time.  We've fallen behind the other top 6 contenders like Spurs and Liverpool, and are now seeing the likes of Stoke and Fulham catch us up.

For a couple of years it looked like Spurs were falling well behind us but they sorted themselves out and are now back challenging at the right end of the table.

It might turn out that you are right and things don't improve I just don't think we can say that is a certainty and that there is no way back.