Television rights - individual overseas rights deals.

[Mister E]

EffDee I find your posts a bit strange as you seem to be against the greed, yet you talk about still having an attractive product to sell,  and  seem disappointed RL isn't exploiting asian markets ruthlessly.  Fuck the Asian and international markets, bollocks to having a product, I want my sport back.

I don't think I'm being inconsistent (and I don't think I used the word "ruthlessly"): I find the greed stomach-churning but that does not obviate my desire for AVFC to present itself to football-watchers in the strongest possible light. We have a heritage and a "story" that Asian fans could find interesting and attractive so why not going and tell people about it.
So, I think I'm trying to be realistic.
I would certainly not recommend doing nothing: we need to keep leveraging what assets we have otherwise we'll get overtaken and drop down the league.
At the moment we seem to be surrendering to the £££ onslaught without a fight ... the worst of all worlds.

[TimTheVillain]

I see that Effdee, and the rich get richer.

It happens, we just have to deal with it.

[ktvillan]

EffDee I find your posts a bit strange as you seem to be against the greed, yet you talk about still having an attractive product to sell,  and  seem disappointed RL isn't exploiting asian markets ruthlessly.  Fuck the Asian and international markets, bollocks to having a product, I want my sport back.

I don't think I'm being inconsistent (and I don't think I used the word "ruthlessly"): I find the greed stomach-churning but that does not obviate my desire for AVFC to present itself to football-watchers in the strongest possible light. We have a heritage and a "story" that Asian fans could find interesting and attractive so why not going and tell people about it.
So, I think I'm trying to be realistic.
I would certainly not recommend doing nothing: we need to keep leveraging what assets we have otherwise we'll get overtaken and drop down the league.
At the moment we seem to be surrendering to the £££ onslaught without a fight ... the worst of all worlds.

But if we could get back to treating it as a sport first. or at least share out any TV money across all 92 league clubs fairly, so that everyone has a chance of competing, there should be no need to talk about products and brands, or to give a toss about who asians are interested in watching.  Frankly I doubt the average proper English football fan gives a rat's arse about who some dickheads in Kuala Lumpar or Bangkok want to watch, they just want a competitive league where they have at least an outside chance of bothering the trophy cabinet.  Maybe you are being realistic, and I'm overly idealistic, but we had it once before the money men got involved.   I just think there is a possibility for the also ran clubs to get together and grab the game back from the money men and tell the greedier clubs to do one.  Let them pander to Sky and the Asian market and let us  have a proper league for English fans.  There won't be as much money swilling around but it shouldn't make much difference except to players and agents whose pockets it mostly ends up in anyway.

[villa `cross the mersey]

EffDee I find your posts a bit strange as you seem to be against the greed, yet you talk about still having an attractive product to sell,  and  seem disappointed RL isn't exploiting asian markets ruthlessly.  Fuck the Asian and international markets, bollocks to having a product, I want my sport back.

I don't think I'm being inconsistent (and I don't think I used the word "ruthlessly"): I find the greed stomach-churning but that does not obviate my desire for AVFC to present itself to football-watchers in the strongest possible light. We have a heritage and a "story" that Asian fans could find interesting and attractive so why not going and tell people about it.
So, I think I'm trying to be realistic.
I would certainly not recommend doing nothing: we need to keep leveraging what assets we have otherwise we'll get overtaken and drop down the league.
At the moment we seem to be surrendering to the £££ onslaught without a fight ... the worst of all worlds.

But if we could get back to treating it as a sport first. or at least share out any TV money across all 92 league clubs fairly, so that everyone has a chance of competing, there should be no need to talk about products and brands, or to give a toss about who asians are interested in watching.  Frankly I doubt the average proper English football fan gives a rat's arse about who some dickheads in Kuala Lumpar or Bangkok want to watch, they just want a competitive league where they have at least an outside chance of bothering the trophy cabinet.  Maybe you are being realistic, and I'm overly idealistic, but we had it once before the money men got involved.   I just think there is a possibility for the also ran clubs to get together and grab the game back from the money men and tell the greedier clubs to do one.  Let them pander to Sky and the Asian market and let us  have a proper league for English fans.  There won't be as much money swilling around but it shouldn't make much difference except to players and agents whose pockets it mostly ends up in anyway.

What he said - It takes balls to take on the money men and the powers that be - but I would love to see a breakaway League spurning the likes of Citeh, Manure, Chelski, et al

[Stu]

We have a heritage and a "story" that Asian fans could find interesting and attractive so why not going and tell people about it.

They're not interested in football heritage and stories in Asia, all they care about is who wins the most.

[Mister E]

EffDee I find your posts a bit strange as you seem to be against the greed, yet you talk about still having an attractive product to sell,  and  seem disappointed RL isn't exploiting asian markets ruthlessly.  Fuck the Asian and international markets, bollocks to having a product, I want my sport back.

I don't think I'm being inconsistent (and I don't think I used the word "ruthlessly"): I find the greed stomach-churning but that does not obviate my desire for AVFC to present itself to football-watchers in the strongest possible light. We have a heritage and a "story" that Asian fans could find interesting and attractive so why not going and tell people about it.
So, I think I'm trying to be realistic.
I would certainly not recommend doing nothing: we need to keep leveraging what assets we have otherwise we'll get overtaken and drop down the league.
At the moment we seem to be surrendering to the £££ onslaught without a fight ... the worst of all worlds.

But if we could get back to treating it as a sport first. or at least share out any TV money across all 92 league clubs fairly, so that everyone has a chance of competing, there should be no need to talk about products and brands, or to give a toss about who asians are interested in watching.  Frankly I doubt the average proper English football fan gives a rat's arse about who some dickheads in Kuala Lumpar or Bangkok want to watch, they just want a competitive league where they have at least an outside chance of bothering the trophy cabinet.  Maybe you are being realistic, and I'm overly idealistic, but we had it once before the money men got involved.   I just think there is a possibility for the also ran clubs to get together and grab the game back from the money men and tell the greedier clubs to do one.  Let them pander to Sky and the Asian market and let us  have a proper league for English fans.  There won't be as much money swilling around but it shouldn't make much difference except to players and agents whose pockets it mostly ends up in anyway.

What he said - It takes balls to take on the money men and the powers that be - but I would love to see a breakaway League spurning the likes of Citeh, Manure, Chelski, et al

I don't disagree but isn't the genie out of the bottle now? - are you not hankering after an unfulfillable dream born from the experience of yesteryear?
And what about all those people here and in the larger Villa family that 'lose it' every time we drop points (I refer you to one or two unrealistic posters on yesterday's match thread as an a example).

[Greg N'Ash]

I have no problem with them negotiating their own overseas rights but what i don't understand is how exactly they get away with them having all the money themselves. Surely if they show Liverpool vs Villa then the fact two teams have turned up means we get some money for providing the opposition? I'm pretty sure if any club took it to the European courts they'd see it the same way. Now if they want to show games of them playing their reserves or the Mumbia XI then fair enough. Failing that maybe they could digitally erase our players so you can only see the team with the rights - a bit like yesterday's game but more high-tech

[old man villa fan]

I have no problem with them negotiating their own overseas rights but what i don't understand is how exactly they get away with them having all the money themselves. Surely if they show Liverpool vs Villa then the fact two teams have turned up means we get some money for providing the opposition? I'm pretty sure if any club took it to the European courts they'd see it the same way. Now if they want to show games of them playing their reserves or the Mumbia XI then fair enough. Failing that maybe they could digitally erase our players so you can only see the team with the rights - a bit like yesterday's game but more high-tech

Interesting comment.  If, say, Liverpool were to sell the rights to screen Liverpool matches, the opposition team could say we do not give you permission to show us unless you pay us £xxxxxxx, or more interestingly, we will not allow you to televise the game at all as we are part of the PL brokered deal to sell the rights of PL matches.  If enough teams stood together, the top teams would have limited games to sell.

[steffo]

As in the early 1990's the 'top five' will breakaway and as a start negotiate a overseas television deal. As these games are the 'cherry in the pie' they will be paid a fortune....

[old man villa fan]

As in the early 1990's the 'top five' will breakaway and as a start negotiate a overseas television deal. As these games are the 'cherry in the pie' they will be paid a fortune....

The only way it is going to happen is if the PL allow it to happen.  The PL still hold all the cards if they want to forcefully play them.  Collectively, the remainder of the clubs are a strong unit.

5 clubs screening only games between themselves is only 5% of all matches in a season.  If the PL were to schedule their matches so that 4 of the teams were playing each other at the same time, the interest from TV companies would be reduced as it is live games that draw the audience.  Also, if they were to say, sorry your matches are at 3pm on a Saturday, this could throw a further spanner in the works.

People say that they would pull out of the league and form a European league.  For a European league to work it would probably only consist of 16 teams and there would be a lot of competition for places from all over Europe.  This would possibly mean only 2 or 3 at most would be involved.  For the teams involved it would be great for the supporters as a novelty but who is going to be able to afford to follow their team away from home on a regular basis.  It will end up with matches played infront of home supporters only with the away team's supporters watching it on TV.  Can you see, say, Man Utd supporters putting up with this for long.

[dave.woodhall]

As in the early 1990's the 'top five' will breakaway and as a start negotiate a overseas television deal. As these games are the 'cherry in the pie' they will be paid a fortune....

The only way it is going to happen is if the PL allow it to happen.  The PL still hold all the cards if they want to forcefully play them.  Collectively, the remainder of the clubs are a strong unit.

5 clubs screening only games between themselves is only 5% of all matches in a season.  If the PL were to schedule their matches so that 4 of the teams were playing each other at the same time, the interest from TV companies would be reduced as it is live games that draw the audience.  Also, if they were to say, sorry your matches are at 3pm on a Saturday, this could throw a further spanner in the works.

People say that they would pull out of the league and form a European league.  For a European league to work it would probably only consist of 16 teams and there would be a lot of competition for places from all over Europe.  This would possibly mean only 2 or 3 at most would be involved.  For the teams involved it would be great for the supporters as a novelty but who is going to be able to afford to follow their team away from home on a regular basis.  It will end up with matches played infront of home supporters only with the away team's supporters watching it on TV.  Can you see, say, Man Utd supporters putting up with this for long.

What, Man United supporters watching on TV? I think they'll cope.

[Dave]

I have no problem with them negotiating their own overseas rights but what i don't understand is how exactly they get away with them having all the money themselves. Surely if they show Liverpool vs Villa then the fact two teams have turned up means we get some money for providing the opposition? I'm pretty sure if any club took it to the European courts they'd see it the same way. Now if they want to show games of them playing their reserves or the Mumbia XI then fair enough. Failing that maybe they could digitally erase our players so you can only see the team with the rights - a bit like yesterday's game but more high-tech

Interesting comment.  If, say, Liverpool were to sell the rights to screen Liverpool matches, the opposition team could say we do not give you permission to show us unless you pay us £xxxxxxx, or more interestingly, we will not allow you to televise the game at all as we are part of the PL brokered deal to sell the rights of PL matches.  If enough teams stood together, the top teams would have limited games to sell.

Presumably, everyone would have the broadcast rights to their 19 home matches.

[Chris Harte]

Having had time to think about this since the news broke that Liverpool were dribbling at the thought of their own deal, its quite obvious that the Liverpool's of this world need the Bolton's more than the Bolton's need the Liverpool's.

All twenty clubs are a part of this league, and so if the "English Premier League" is being sold abroad then all twenty members deserve an equal share of the spoils.

That said, I wouldn't be upset if Liverpool and the other four or five teams they still somehow think they are equal to decided to go off and make their own league. People would soon become bored with playing each other six times a season, meanwhile the Bolton's of this world (including our own club) would at least have a more competitive league to play in. Take out Manchester's United and City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and I wouldn't be able to say who the next best team is. Tottenham, perhaps, but not a racing certainty like at the moment.

[old man villa fan]

As in the early 1990's the 'top five' will breakaway and as a start negotiate a overseas television deal. As these games are the 'cherry in the pie' they will be paid a fortune....

The only way it is going to happen is if the PL allow it to happen.  The PL still hold all the cards if they want to forcefully play them.  Collectively, the remainder of the clubs are a strong unit.

5 clubs screening only games between themselves is only 5% of all matches in a season.  If the PL were to schedule their matches so that 4 of the teams were playing each other at the same time, the interest from TV companies would be reduced as it is live games that draw the audience.  Also, if they were to say, sorry your matches are at 3pm on a Saturday, this could throw a further spanner in the works.

People say that they would pull out of the league and form a European league.  For a European league to work it would probably only consist of 16 teams and there would be a lot of competition for places from all over Europe.  This would possibly mean only 2 or 3 at most would be involved.  For the teams involved it would be great for the supporters as a novelty but who is going to be able to afford to follow their team away from home on a regular basis.  It will end up with matches played infront of home supporters only with the away team's supporters watching it on TV.  Can you see, say, Man Utd supporters putting up with this for long.

What, Man United supporters watching on TV? I think they'll cope.

We talk about the heart being ripped out of the game now.  When it starts to affect the hardcore Man Utd fans that actually go to away games, they will react to it like we are now.  It is one thing to do it by choice but another if something is taken away from you.

[TopDeck113]

Frankly, whilst this proposal may be emanating from Anfield, you can bet that it's been discussed in the boardrooms of Old Trafford, The Emirates and Stamford Bridge.  Probably at Spurs and in Abu Dhabi, too.  (They'll have no doubt also discussed at Upton Park, but that lot are forever delusional).

When - not if - it happens, it'll be the logical conclusion of the avarice of the top clubs, that started the day when they decided not to share home gate receipts with the visiting team.

Frankly, I'd love all the aforementioned to f*ck off and form some pan-European Super League with added 39th game.  It would be great to watch Villa in a league competition when we'd be one of a dozen clubs in with a shout of winning it, even if we'd still probably come seventh.   And when, in the fullness of time, the population of Malaysia are fed up with it and the whole sorry experiment fails, of course Liverpool etc can come back.  I'm sure that the NW Counties would welcome them with open arms.