Is the club in a worse state now than when Lerner took over?

[ASHTONVILLA]

Doubt we would ever have signed a player like Darren Bent under Doug. Can't think of anything else.

Saunders and Collymore were both just as big names at the time.

Plus when we sold Platt and Yorke the manager got most of the funds to rebuild the team.

I am not a big fan of HDE, but he wasn't all bad.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Doug wasn't that bad, don't think learner is that bad but times have changed in football its no longer a sport and its now an entertainment game full of overpaid girls It's just our girls ain't as good as most and were lead by a bull dog

[5ft811st2 Durham]

Ashton, I think O'Neill only took the job because he knew Lerner was taking over and he had cash to spend. I don't reckon he would have took the job if the previous regime was carrying on running the club.

Agree with you that Old Deadly would never have appointed McLeish and no matter what anyone thought of Doug, his love for the club was never in doubt.

Turner, McNeill, Blues, Wolves.

Taylor, atkinson , little , villa , -balances out in the end , he did good and bad during his time , as  has randy.

Venglos, GT Mark II, Dolly.

I'd never criticise Doug for appointing Venglos - it was a gamble that didn't work, and in a lot of ways Dr Jo was ahead of his time. It also says a lot about the way football changes that when we appointed O'Leary he wasn't far behind O'Neill in the "How did THEY get HIM?" stakes. He was easily the best available candidate.

Paul McGrath' account of Venglos's training methods is far from complimentary.

More bizarre than visionary in his view.

[dave.woodhall]

Paul McGrath' account of Venglos's training methods is far from complimentary.

More bizarre than visionary in his view.

Most of the others have a different view. The biggest problem was that it did seem bizarre then, but it's normal now. 

[Lizz]

I'd never criticise Doug for appointing Venglos - it was a gamble that didn't work, and in a lot of ways Dr Jo was ahead of his time. It also says a lot about the way football changes that when we appointed O'Leary he wasn't far behind O'Neill in the "How did THEY get HIM?" stakes. He was easily the best available candidate.

I have vague memories of a minor internet panic on here when there were rumours that DOL was going to leave Villa for Newcastle.

[Risso]

Paul McGrath' account of Venglos's training methods is far from complimentary.

More bizarre than visionary in his view.

Most of the others have a different view. The biggest problem was that it did seem bizarre then, but it's normal now. 

Much as he's rightly revered, I'm not sure that I'd set too much store by McGrath's assessment of a training regime in any case.

[martin]

Doug wasn't that bad, don't think learner is that bad

Doug was never that bad, Lerner was never that good. That's not to big up Herbert or to big down Randy, just to point out that the former could do no right in the eyes of many and the latter, no wrong. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

And we're in about the same state: limbo. Not that that is down to either of those two in particular, just the accidents of the modern game. Agree on McLeish though; A terrible appointment.

By the way, sorry for editing your post out of context Phil from the upper Holte. Just thought it worked to make my point.

[Eigentor]

The problem with Lerner is that he brought a lot of good intentions, but little in terms of footballing and business knowledge. The main reason why we are seemingly in the same position as when he took over, is what is refered above to as 'the accidents of the modern game'.

I also fear that McLeish is a terrible appointment. He seems to me to be a one-trick pony who can do well when everything is going for him, but who can be clueless when things are on the slide. At least Houllier's unsuccessful spell had two redeeming features: (1) he seemed to have an idea what he wanted to do; (2) when we were in the shit (partly of his making, it must be said) he knew what to do to pick us up. I'm not sure if McLeish has got that, and therefore I will become slightly paranoid if we now start losing instead of drawing.

[olaftab]

NO

[itbrvilla]

Now: Massive unsustainable wage bill, massive debt vs Some of the best training facilities in Europe. 
Then: Lack of investment, poor training facilities vs little debt, club sustainable.

Both squads comparable.

[dave.woodhall]

Now: Massive unsustainable wage bill, massive debt vs Some of the best training facilities in Europe. 
Then: Lack of investment, poor training facilities vs little debt, club sustainable.

Both squads comparable.

And where would we be without those massive wages and the money spent on players?

[OzVilla]

These overreacting threads are getting a little boring now - I just checked the table on Saturday and had we won we'd have gone 4th.

No, not all is rosie in the garden of reality that is every other team that doesn't have a multi Billionaire owner or Champions League income, but it sure as hell isn't as bad as some of the drivel i've been reading on here the last week or so. 

 

[jonzy85]

I dont think we are in a worse state. When O'Leary was in charge we wouldn't have had chance of signing the likes of Given, Bent and N'Zogbia. We were dealing in cheap cast-offs, exclusively. (I say exclusively because I know Hutton and Jenas fall in that category). We just hadn't the ability to enter the market for sought after players.

The problem now is that we have a chairman who has ripped up the "Proud History, Bright Future" blueprint (if one existed) and seems to be struggling to decide what direction to take i.e. signing Bent for 20+ mill v the frugality of this summer.

It also doesn't help that he or the people around him couldn't pick a decent football manager if Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho both decided to simutaneously kick them up the a***.

[Merv]

We're in a better state, I think. A more talented squad, with higher valued players, and we're starting from a stronger base than when Lerner took over and O'Neill was appointed - a squad which finished top half, compared to one which just missed relegation.

The main difference for me is that, this time five years ago I had the feeling that the only way was up for Villa, there was genuine optimism. Now, I think our future doesn't look quite so positive.

[5ft811st2 Durham]

Paul McGrath' account of Venglos's training methods is far from complimentary.

More bizarre than visionary in his view.

Most of the others have a different view. The biggest problem was that it did seem bizarre then, but it's normal now. 

Seriously?  Running from one side of Bodymoor Heath  to the other without breathing....