Prem v Bundesliga - Are we doing something wrong?

[ktvillan]

I agree with Mazrim on a couple of points - 1. in Germany it's still largely about the fans (the local ones who go to games, not plastic ones in Singapore), and 2. It's going to take some kind of revolution to change things here.

The big selling point in Germany is they've kept the competition alive.   Many teams have at least a chance of competing for the title.  Here it's what 3 at most? No-one else has a hope, and hope is a big thing to football fans.

A revolution is needed.  I read recently that Sevilla's owner was getting together a group of Spanish clubs to try and mitigate the massive financial advantages the big 2 have over there,  which makes the others also rans before a ball is kicked.  Unfortunatley the cannon fodder clubs here are all getting loads of Sky money and seem unwilling to risk it by getting together and pulling out of the PL and forming their own league on a fairer basis.  They have an ace to play, because there would be no PL if 15 or so of the teams decide to pull out and go their own way.   That's what I think is needed, a few clubs with the balls to get the others together and say fuck Sky, Fuck UEFA and their "champions" league, Fuck the plastics in the far east, let's have a proper competitive league where everyone starts out more or less equal and is treated equally, with salary caps and other measures that will support fair competition.  Effectively what the Germans have.

 

[Greg N'Ash]

Not sure this one can be totally put down to Sky or the domination of a few clubs. the 10 years before Sky appeared 4 different clubs won the league, the 10 years after 3 different clubs won it. Take away the Sky money and you'll still get the big clubs dominating it because they have the most money, as they did before sky. One of the reasons they're having more teams in the mix is that a lor of them are similar sized clubs judging by the attendances - what do you do, force Manu and Arsenal to cut their revenue by closing half their ground?

[godzvilla]

Spot on , Laughing Policeman ( and Lizz ) .....I believe its called  'seeing the BIG picture ' .......Godzvilla!

[Hookeysmith]

If memory serves me right in the 20 or so years prior to the "who has the most money League" 7/8 different teams won the English top division

Since the premiership began only 4 have won it - in the last few years (before man city pannini sticker book approach to purchases took hold)  it is now down to only 3 that could possibly win it

We all know that if Man city are in the mix come Jan then they will go and hoover up even more world class talent (lets face it if they wanted to they could buy Messi - it may cost them £100+ mil transfer and around £1mil per game but if they wanted him they could get him)

AS said before the media (Sky and the Sun in particular) fill their pages with shit about the money teams so all the nuevelle (sp) fans can get their fix without ever having to mix with us plebs at the game itself

When fans became customers the game lost its soul - i really hope that it all implodes and sky and the over inflated wages paid to average players comes to an end

I loved football - but now i am almost begining to hate it and it saddens me

[dave.woodhall]

Villa, Forest and Everton came from nowhere to win the league. That'll never happen again unless something drastic happens.

[Hookeysmith]

Villa, Forest and Everton came from nowhere to win the league. That'll never happen again unless something drastic happens.

And that was based on shrewd managers who over a period of time bought players to build a team and were allowed to do so. When i was a kid every team that came to VP had a star player that was synonimous (sp) with that team

Stan Bowles - QPR
Tony Currie - Sheff Utd
Latchford - Everton
etc
etc

Nowadays the money rich clubs buy players almost for the sake of it (just so their competitors cant have them in some cases) so what chance has any one to build a decent team when the best players drop their drawers the first time someone is prepared to fill them with cash

The biggest and most influential changes in the game

Sky - the stupid money meant the growth of agents and greed (Just like Murdochs empire did in USA sports)
Champs league - when the culture of "fuck you jack we are ok" began
Champs league - gave every player / agent the excuse to move to match their expectations

As i said my love for the game has dwindled for a good few years  - its now almost gone

[Greg N'Ash]

i don't follow the Bundesliga but will take other's word thats its more competitivie and more open. but the stamp of how good a countries national league is how they do in the European cup and unfortunately they haven't won it in 10 years with only 2 different teams making it to the final in that period. Compare that to the PL who've won it twice in that period with 4 different teams getting to the final. To me that says you've got a lot of average sides all of the same standard rather than a lot of quality sides who can take on the best. Ideally you'd want a league where its competitive AND they win in Europe but i'm not sure how you go about that to be honest.

[TonyD]

Ticket prices are the main thing.

I'd love it if one PL club had the balls to give it a go. Not just the occasional two adults for 40 quid style thing we see, but the whole season, saying "right, these are the prices" and cutting them to the bone.

I'm sure the bigwigs at the PL would point to how well English clubs do in the CL as proof our ticket prices have a positive outcome in their role in money in the game, but bar the four champions league clubs, nobody else gets anything out of it.

Totally agree.  A complete review of pricing to ensure the ground is full every match would be good for the club and the game.    Prices should be fair and simple to understand from the beginning of the season. 

I would have only 2 pricing tiers and 3 price bands:
Cat 1 games (ManU, Liverpool, Chelsea,  Arsenal, ManC and Spurs)

£25 (£15, Kid/ OAPS) For  the very centre of Trinity, Doug and Upper Holte
£20 (£10,Kid/ OAPS ) For the rest and majority of the ground except wings and lower North
£15 (£5, Kid/ OAPS)  Wings and lower North

Cat 2 all the other clubs:

£20 (£10, Kid/ OAPS) For the very centre of Trinity, Doug and Upper Holte
£15 (£7.50,Kid/ OAPS ) For the rest and majority of the ground except wings and lower North
£10 (£5, Kid/ OAPS)  Wings and lower North.

The club could get a firm to sponsor the subsidy e.g.   "XXXX plc, proud to make the people's game affordable...."  With the extra bums on seats,  extra supplementary match day revenue and this sponsorship, the overall drop in matchday revenue would be reduced to around that of a certain player’s annual wage bill.   

I would also encourage people to roll up on the day with cash turnstiles.   

[NeilH]

We’ve been very quick to point and laugh at the farcical nature of the SPL when affectively you could scrap the league and just get Rangers and Celtic to play each other 4 times a year to decide the title. However, here we are now in a situation where as the years go by, we edge closer to an English version. A league where 3 űber rich teams hoover up all the best players and kill competition before its even started. Even if we reduce ticket prices to Bundesliga levels (which we obviously can’t unless the players opt for at least a 50% wage cut) the gap and inequity of money would still not be enough to fill the void.

The monstrous, bloated, over-hyped product that is the Premier League is disappearing up its own ars* while we the loyal fans, emotionally tied to Villa, are forced to watch us getting humiliated live on Sky to the great pleasure of a growing band of armchair fans driven wild by the relentless advertising of the product.

Where’s the pleasure in this? Where’s the fun in forking out more than most supporters in Europe to watch the team you love be treated as cannon fodder? Why is that you can almost sense the contempt from Sky when they have to cover a match involving anyone outside the Sky4?

[Hookeysmith]

We’ve been very quick to point and laugh at the farcical nature of the SPL when affectively you could scrap the league and just get Rangers and Celtic to play each other 4 times a year to decide the title. However, here we are now in a situation where as the years go by, we edge closer to an English version. A league where 3 űber rich teams hoover up all the best players and kill competition before its even started. Even if we reduce ticket prices to Bundesliga levels (which we obviously can’t unless the players opt for at least a 50% wage cut) the gap and inequity of money would still not be enough to fill the void.

The monstrous, bloated, over-hyped product that is the Premier League is disappearing up its own ars* while we the loyal fans, emotionally tied to Villa, are forced to watch us getting humiliated live on Sky to the great pleasure of a growing band of armchair fans driven wild by the relentless advertising of the product.

Where’s the pleasure in this? Where’s the fun in forking out more than most supporters in Europe to watch the team you love be treated as cannon fodder? Why is that you can almost sense the contempt from Sky when they have to cover a match involving anyone outside the Sky4?

excellent post - sums up my feeling totally
I was out and about wolverhampton on sunday and me and my missus stopped for a few drink and a meal half way through the spurzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' game. She knows nothing about the game but even she commented on the commentators wank fest over Arry and King kenny and the 30 second reminders that the prem is the best thing in the world
As soon as the United team came on the pitch i was sickened by the sychophancy about them that i had to leave

It really is sad the way the game has gone

[Holy Trinity]

Sky almost have their perfect product to sell now. The dominance of a handfull of teams, including the most marketable of all in Newton Heath has created their ideal customer. No connection at all to the clubs only a fascination with success nurtured from childhood through the screen, now parting with money to keep up their support through subscription.

Gary Neville has not been recruited for his media skills but for his identification with the most marketable club, another well considered strategy.

The rest of the Premier League exist as cannon fodder for the rich and powerfull, and while attendances droop for the visit of Wigan and Stoke, they will rise for televised games against the top clubs satifying the demand for atmosphere so craved by the TV execs.

The coverage afforded to the lesser teams is nothing more than lip service to ensure they feel part of the whole shebang, when in reality they are turkeys being plumped up for Christmas slaughter. Live in HD.

While the TV companies pay the money they will call the tune, and there is nothing anybody can do. Apart from refusing to be any part of the whole rotten process. But Sky know damn well that, for many of us, it's a question of loyalty to the club that we have grown up with.

They have the game by the balls.

spot on about neville. its also the reason there are so many ex scouse scumbags as pundits

[lordmcgrath5]

We’ve been very quick to point and laugh at the farcical nature of the SPL when affectively you could scrap the league and just get Rangers and Celtic to play each other 4 times a year to decide the title. However, here we are now in a situation where as the years go by, we edge closer to an English version. A league where 3 űber rich teams hoover up all the best players and kill competition before its even started.

Yep, I'm starting to feel that way myself.

[eastie]

Premier league becomint too much like spanish and scottish leagues with only 2 or 3 teams who can realistically win it-the game is rapidly becoming all about money these days and nothing like the excitement of the league as i knew it in the 70s and 80s.

[Mark H]

I was in Dortmund the week before last as we have now moved our German office there - you can see the very impressive stadium from the office window.  We spent time over lots of beers in the evening talking about football and one of the guys in our office there has not got a season ticket - why i asked - Too expensive he said they are €200-€300 !! When I told him what I pay for my and the lads Villa ones he nearly fell off his stool !!.  The next time I am going out there we are going to a match he has send me youtube clips of the crowd and the atmosphere is fantastic.

[Mark H]

watch from about 4 mins in - obviosuly ignoring the actual song but thats a "normal" league game