Aston Villa v Newcastle United Post-Match Thread

[hawkeye]

Jenas is now the Box to Box midfielder we have been missing FFS

[gervilla]

I was quite impressed with Warnocks performance yesterday. He did dive in a few times in the second half but he did manage to get the ball at the same time. Considering the guy has a pain killing injection at half time I thought he did very well.
It's starting to look like he is enjoying the post Houllier period as much as Richard Dunne.

[supertom]

The reason Newcastle kept coming back at us is because we couldn't clear the ball to the middle third, because we don't have a midfield, its noting to do with Bent and Gabby, if people expect Darren Bent and Gabby Agbonlahor to hold up play and contain in the midfield area and get up and score it simply isn't going to happen, unless you are going to engage in a long ball game whereby you are literally playing from defence to the front cutting out any passing game in the middle area's then there is no way Bent and Gabby should be holding up play to that extent.

Another reason why they shouldn't be doing it is because the very essence of a player like Gabby is about pace and getting forward fast, that indeed maybe what Bent is suffering from, he's never played with a player like Gabby, so for them to be in midfield holding up play is a contradiction, once they are forward and around the box they can bring other players in, but not way back in the centre midfield.

The reason Newcastle had total control of the midfield is because every time we cleared the ball it was going to a Newcastle player, they where playing with 5/6 players across the middle, Delph was useless and losing possession all over the shop, N'Zogbia was a luxury we couldn't afford v Newcastle, Bannan didn't have the experience in defending so that leaves Petrov to shore up the area in front of the back 4.......No chance. Then as players like Gabby and N'zogbia started to drop back further and further, Bent then gets less and less supply.

Spot on sir.

[Merv]

The state of our central midfield was my major concern in June, and remains so now. I'm still not entirely sure why we've allowed Reo-Coker, Makoun, Bradley and Hogg all to leave, only bringing one player in. I do think Jenas can improve us, but the options are limited and thin.

I can see us having to use three midfielders more often than not. Having said that, I thought AM was doing that on Saturday until I realised Bannan was wide left.

[UsualSuspect]

I think we have to give Mcleish an opportunity to get his own players in
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Dear god no....

Early days but with a squad superior to what he had at Small Heath and given the teams we have played so far, AM is already showing that car crash football is the only way he knows.

Still at least we are bigging up jenas to be some kind of midfield genius and the answer to all of our problems.

Read the same for Delph, bannan, nzogbia

[midnite]

My 10 pence worth... Haven't read through the thread so don't know other opinions on the game but I thought it was such a boring game on Saturday.

Newcastle had a lot of possession and we scored against the run of play. Warnock did all the hard work well but the simple stuff like passing he was rubbish at and kept putting the defence back under pressure. Apart from that series of tackles he did in the last 10 mins of the game were he looked very determined.

Our midfield just looked light and lacklustre. We had so little possession for being the home team it was embarrassing. Against a better team we could of got a hammering I though. Bannan was ok. Worked hard but nothing came from it. Ireland when he came on I thought looked lively. Given was amazing! I can't believe I doubted signing him when we were looking for a keeper in the summer. Not just his saving but it was good to see a villa keeper actually distributing the ball well.

The whole villa performance was all very forgettable. Nothing stood out. No sequence of passing and running that got you out your seat and all excited. When you did it was more out of hope than anything else. I'm very worried about our midfield. We do look very light and not full of ideas.

Is Jenas the answer? Well after scouting the earth all summer only to find the best midfielder for us was sitting on the spurs bench all this time, he must be.

[Dr Butler]

on McLeish's substitutions

right players on, wrong players off

Bent(not fit as injured) for Ireland and N'Zogbia(very poor) for Albrighton and then we would of matched them in midfield.

and why can't we keep the ball ? we gave it away too much.

UTV
The Doc

[UsualSuspect]

Is Jenas the answer? Well after scouting the earth all summer only to find the best midfielder for us was sitting on the spurs bench all this time, he must be.
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And now injured

The genius of it all is quite amazing

Anyway all will be well when heskey is back....

Glad to see given doing well, I seem to remember loads of posters on here saying he was past it and we should have signed robinson

http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43612.0

[ktvillan]

People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.

I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT.   And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield.  Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.

I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been.  What's the point of Makoun?  He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.

I don't know Risso, perhaps it's the fact that he was capable of passing the ball to someone on the same team  90% of the time, when everyone is moaning that we can't keep posession in midfiled, something that had been a problem for, oh let's see, at least four years?    Or maybe it's that he had  the vision to spot a good through ball and the ability to play such passes, (like the one he played through to Bent against Newcastle last season which was wrongly called offside).   He got sent off for one bad lunge at Blackpool, up to which point he'd been palying pretty well, and a myopic ref gave a blatantly incorrect penalty call against him at Everton, and that's it, he's had his chance, he can't tackle.   He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things.  Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?

[Risso]

He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things.  Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?

and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day.  Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?

[Merv]

There's the rub. Everyone wants to see more possession in midfield, a player who can keep the ball, but when we get someone like that - Makoun - it's decided he doesn't do enough, he needs to be more physical, and he's quickly moved on.

[exigo]

First trip to Villa Park this season. Before we even got to the ground neither of us could believe just how muted everybody was on the train to Witton. Everybody sitting down, quiet, the overwhelming feeling that it's become a chore.

Even at the game it felt the same. The Holte Upper was empty at the back, loads of people just sitting watching the game quietly below us. There was an inevitability about the equaliser that didn't help matters. Maybe if Bent had taken his chance in the first half it would have been different.

Good games for Gabby, Given, Petrov and Bannan. Even Ireland looked up for it when he came on. But it all felt too calm, too nice, too much of a chore. On the pitch and off. We got cheap tickets for both the train from London and the match - if we'd paid full whack there wouldn't have been any real incentive to go again. Maybe the £43 restricted view seats at QPR next week will push us over the edge.

In short, meh.

[ozzjim]

I think the change needs to come in the way the midfield 3 operate - 1 needs to sit and 2 attack, rather than 1 attack and 2 sit. Petrov SHOULD be sitting, he reads it well and suits the position, with Bannan and Ireland in front of him and Albrighton and Gabby wide and Bent up top IF fit, with Gabby and NZogbia in those positions if not. we need more creation, Delph is playing ok, but we need to change it around a little.

[ktvillan]

He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things.  Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?

and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day.  Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?

Yes I spotted that he could pass the ball consistently to other players on our team, something we'd been crying out for for years.   You must have missed that. Houllier saw enough in him to sign him for 6 million or whatever it was.   And I'm sure Houllier saw his excellent performance against Man Yoo.  He only came in January and he was banned for three games after his straight red.      I don't know if Houllier or McCallister was picking the team towards the end,  but maybe whoever it was went for maximim PL experience to ensure our safety. Or maybe it was part of Houlliers rotation policy. I also seem to recall he was injured for some games, although I could be wrong on that.  I'm not convinced McCallister could spot a good footballer if Lionel Messi was sitting on his face.  And McLeish is known to favour a very, shall we say, "British" style  of football.

[Ads]

I think the change needs to come in the way the midfield 3 operate - 1 needs to sit and 2 attack, rather than 1 attack and 2 sit. Petrov SHOULD be sitting, he reads it well and suits the position, with Bannan and Ireland in front of him and Albrighton and Gabby wide and Bent up top IF fit, with Gabby and NZogbia in those positions if not. we need more creation, Delph is playing ok, but we need to change it around a little.

Agreed.

Its clear from the way we shape up without the ball, that we only press it in our final third, with Delph and Stan sitting no more than ten yards in front of Dunne.

It makes us a very hard nut to crack, but leaves us open when we recycle possession cheaply.

I think a central three is the way forward. I've suggested Jenas, Ireland and Stan for QPR, but there are a number of faces who'd fit well. At the moment in a 442 we're not balanced and the worry is we'll become too narrow with a central three, especially as Charlie likes to drift infield.

433 is the only way I think we'll be able to strike a balance between the way we defend deeply and effectively and having something going the other way.