Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 16, 2011, 06:32:14 PM
-
Available Saturday evening.
-
Still unbeaten!
Woo hoo!
[\glass half full]
-
another draw sigh ......
given with the best save I have seen in some time
-
Another draw. Gabby played well as did Bannan. We played ok in places, but didn't hold anywhere near enough possession. Brilliant by Given.
-
Frustrating display, Given was my MoM
-
Predictable result! Weakest links were Hutton and N'pog offered little and wasted good link-up play numerous times.
-
Could be better. Could be worse. A bit like everything so far this season.
My gold stars were Gabby, Warnock, Dunne and Given.
I'm starting to worry about Delph, N'Zogbia, Hutton and Bent. Knowing what they are capable of it is hopefully a temporary slump.
-
Darren Bent - plainly carrying an injury and off form - rest him.
N'Zogbia - still on his summer break - off form and out of shape - get him fit.
Fabian Delph - distinctly lightweight and errant of pass - out of form - build him up.
John Collins - couldn't make a pass at Angelina Jolie - out of form - sell him please.
Everyone else solid. Gabby starting to buzz again - and Bannan - always value - always looking to create.
And Shay? The best man in a Villa shirt for years.
But why no Albrighton - always value - and links instinctively with Bannan - and why not give DaFonz a go?
A neutral watching this would have thought we were at St James' Park. We played like the away team. Forcing one save until 71 mins. I hope this is not the plan.
Ah at last - in desperation - but what? Removing Bannan and Stan and leaving Delph and N'Zog on the park?
I'll never understand.
Awful.
UtV
-
Dull, lifeless and never in control of the game. Warnock MOTM for me, just for looking like he gave a shit.
-
As said a few times in the match thread, Cabaye head and shoulders above anyone else.
Exactly the player that our midfield needs. I remember saying as much quite often in the summer.
-
Poor performance. Great save by Given, N'Zog AWFUL!!
-
A very good performance for club that supposedly haven't got two h'pennies to rub together, have appointed a totally uninspiring manager and sold their three best players.
We were pretty shite though.
-
Delph poor, Bent poor, Ireland anonymous when he came on, N'zogbia much the same. Poor performance against a very average side who put in a shift. We could have easily lost today.
-
Y'Zogbia?
-
If we draw every game, that's 38 points!
Jesus Villa Park should be a fortress. Other teams will love coming to play us at VP if McLeish lines up like that every week. Randy, you may expect crowds to drop further if that's what fans pay to see.
-
Darren Bent - plainly carrying an injury and off form - rest him.
N'Zogbia - still on his summer break - off form and out of shape - get him fit.
Fabian Delph - distinctly lightweight and errant of pass - out of form - build him up.
John Collins - couldn't make a pass at Angelina Jolie - out of form - sell him please.
Everyone else solid. Gabby starting to buzz again - and Bannan - always value - always looking to create.
And Shay? The best man in a Villa shirt for years.
But why no Albrighton - always value - and links instinctively with Bannan - and why not give DaFonz a go?
A neutral watching this would have thought we were at St James' Park. We played like the away team. Forcing one save until 71 mins. I hope this is not the plan.
Ah at last - in desperation - but what? Removing Bannan and Stan and leaving Delph and N'Zog on the park?
I'll never understand.
Awful.
UtV
I thought you always had a bee on your bonnet about people moaning as evinced in some of your tedious threads? I'd say you are being a bit unfair on a few of those players.
-
Removing Bannan and Stan and leaving Delph and N'Zog on the park?
Even listening on the radio this seemed a strange decision.
-
Draw expected, draw got. Dreary.
Next game, draw.
-
Awful, absolute sh1te, have to say it how i see it, if Newcastle where half decent we could have got absolutely obliterated..........again.
Given, Gabby, the rest aren't worth a mention, maybe Bannan did Ok..........
Players that need sorting and quick, Bent, N'zogbia, Delph. They simple aren't playing for us.
Alex McLiesh, tactically looks very very average.
-
Some good periods of play here and there. But another game where we have been over run in midfield and yet the manager does fuck all to combat this. These managers fall down on the basics and the obvious - crazy they get so much cash and admiration. Taking Bazza of was plain stupid.
I want to see Zog and Delph dropped next game and Clark in to bolster the middle. If he brings back EH I will self combust.
-
Holding out for a draw in the last 3 games now.
-
A very dull, average match between two very dull, average teams. The only thing that suprises me about our crippling mediocrity is that i'm still suprised by it.
If anything Newcastle can feel slightly aggrieved they didn't win.
-
Fucking abysmal...we let an average team control the game almost completely. There's no conviction to our play at all, no one to take responsibility. Petrov is anonymous when he needs to lead Delph. Our full backs look ropey, little service to the strikers, not much movement from the strikers anyway. Another stinker from N'Zogbia.
If we're going to make up the numbers there's probably cheaper ways of doing it than over-paying for the likes of Zog and Hutton. When you're counting on Jermaine Jenas to be your saviour there is something very wrong.
Unbeaten, wahey. A season full of playing counter-attacking football at home to make Martin O'Neill look like a master attacking tactician.
-
A very dull, average match between two very dull, average teams. The only thing that suprises me about our crippling mediocrity is that i'm still suprised by it.
If anything Newcastle can feel slightly aggrieved they didn't win.
Of the bar, how many first class saves from Given.....................If I was a Geordie fan i would be crying into my soup.....
-
just utterly awful muck. Newcastle with possibly the 2 or 3 worst strikers in the EPL should still have beaten us comfortably. Hutton was much better today as was Warnock. Dunne made a bad mistake for the goal but Collins and himself are a solid partnership. Given was excellent again, brilliant save at the end. Gabby scored a good goal and also another great turn and shot at the start of the second half. Bannan was tidy on the ball but playing him on the right is a cop out anyway.
Evidence yet again, that Gabby and Bent will not work. Bent is woefully off form anyway at present. Nzogbia is lost at present. Delph was pathetic today I thought with Petrov not far behind. The ease in which Tiote and Cabaye destroyed them in midfield was frightening really. We do not have the personnel to play with only 2 in midfield. We havent had in over 5 years so why do we do it? Embarrassing stuff from McLeish that he couldnt see that the formation needed to be changed.
The football we played was from another era frankly. Nothing in midfield and constant ineffective route one muck. Newcastle at least tried to play the right way but have nothing up front and their widemen despite heaps of possession were poor.
Wait until we play a decent side we will be destroyed.
-
I told myself when the fixtures were released that even though the opening few fixtures may look 'favourable' on paper, in reality those games will be tough. It turned out that I was right because McLeish prefers to play the "play not to lose" way.
It was so obvious what needed to be done at half-time yet McLeish couldn't figure it out himself.
I know it's only 5 games in but things need to drasticially change under McLeish because it's poor. What i'm watching is the same dour crap I saw small heath play... except we have better players. It's not acceptable, his tactics suck and we're going to keep drawing games against opponents we should really be winning.
-
Fucking abysmal...we let an average team control the game almost completely. There's no conviction to our play at all, no one to take responsibility. Petrov is anonymous when he needs to lead Delph. Our full backs look ropey, little service to the strikers, not much movement from the strikers anyway. Another stinker from N'Zogbia.
If we're going to make up the numbers there's probably cheaper ways of doing it than over-paying for the likes of Zog and Hutton. When you're counting on Jermaine Jenas to be your saviour there is something very wrong.
Unbeaten, wahey. A season full of playing counter-attacking football at home to make Martin O'Neill look like a master attacking tactician.
Exactly, I predict we will get to mid season and we'll be the first Premiership club draping banners down from the stand saying " Martin, Please come back we love you"
-
A good team are going to tear us to pieces the way we are at the moment.
Even QPR could give us a bit of a tonking next week.
-
Darren Bent - plainly carrying an injury and off form - rest him.
N'Zogbia - still on his summer break - off form and out of shape - get him fit.
Fabian Delph - distinctly lightweight and errant of pass - out of form - build him up.
John Collins - couldn't make a pass at Angelina Jolie - out of form - sell him please.
Everyone else solid. Gabby starting to buzz again - and Bannan - always value - always looking to create.
And Shay? The best man in a Villa shirt for years.
But why no Albrighton - always value - and links instinctively with Bannan - and why not give DaFonz a go?
A neutral watching this would have thought we were at St James' Park. We played like the away team. Forcing one save until 71 mins. I hope this is not the plan.
Ah at last - in desperation - but what? Removing Bannan and Stan and leaving Delph and N'Zog on the park?
I'll never understand.
Awful.
UtV
John Collins? - we could have done with him in MF today. Hasn't James Collins just signed a contract-extension? He won't be sold!
I'm afraid Albie still looks way out of sorts; having said that, he maybe needs a start to get him back in the swing of things.
Delph had a poor game but I think we need to persist with him; he will come good, I think.
We're short on options: I hope when JJ is fit we can get him alongside Petrov and BB to get more solidity in CMF. I'd like to see a 4-5-1 set-up.
-
Very worrying that QPR absolutely battered Newcastle on Monday and should've won, yet we made them look like a good side.
-
Bent's hold up play was poor today i could see Gabby getting annoyed with him. I'm not the biggest fan of Bent's i think he's too sloppy and could do a whole lot more instead off goal hanging for 75 minutes every match. Harsh but true!
-
How the fuck are we meant to tighten up our midfield when our only options are attacking players who would exacerbate the problem? A bit of perspective is needed.
Clark or Jenas coming in may go some way towards tightening it up but both were injured today so we could hardly pick them. Are we expecting Ireland to do a defensive midfield role?
-
Bent's hold up play was poor today i could see Gabby getting annoyed with him. I don't rate Bent anyway i think he's too sloppy and could do a whole lot more instead off goal hanging for 75 minutes every match. Harsh but true!
Harsh, but I'll take the goals he scores! And he will start scoring again!
-
We are fucking rubbish but am i surprised? Not one bit. No doubt the happy clappers will say 'we're unbeaten' but 4 draws out of 5 considering who we've played is piss poor. We played exactly how Blues did last season, we went 1-0 up and then camped in our own half trying to see it out. You would have thought Newcastle were the home team not us, but like i say it's exactly what i expect from ginger bollocks. He's a shit manager who plays shit, negative football. That was Newcastle we were playing today not Man Utd and we were defending with 10 men behind the ball trying to protect a 1-0 lead, diabolical tactics.
Delph is an awful footballer, Championship standard. N'Zogbia has been atrocious in every game so far, i don't know whats wrong with him. Bent looks like he couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo at the moment.
I'm half expecting sub 30,000 against Wigan, especially if we lose at QPR. Lets face it, it will probably be a draw and the football will be crap so the fans aren't going to come flocking.
Thank the lord i didn't spend 500 odd quid to watch that garbage every other week.
-
How the fuck are we meant to tighten up our midfield when our only options are attacking players who would exacerbate the problem? A bit of perspective is needed.
Clark or Jenas coming in may go some way towards tightening it up but both were injured today so we could hardly pick them. Are we expecting Ireland to do a defensive midfield role?
no, that's why I found the substitution of Petrov so alarming today; even though Petrov is really a 60-minute man, we just had no direct replacement for him.
-
Bent seems injured. I would rest him for the next 3/4 games and play 4.5.1. with Gabby up front and pack out the midfield.
-
The sight of Peter Grant and Alex McLeish pointing blankly at one another on the sideline is already wearing thin for me I'm afraid. Clueless doesnt even come close
-
A very dull, average match between two very dull, average teams. The only thing that suprises me about our crippling mediocrity is that i'm still suprised by it.
If anything Newcastle can feel slightly aggrieved they didn't win.
Of the bar, how many first class saves from Given.....................If I was a Geordie fan i would be crying into my soup.....
Given is going to get a lot of MOM's for us this season.
-
Crap.
N'Zog? What the hell? Woeful.
Bent - clearly injured, should have gone off earlier.
Delph and Petrov, both of whom were poor, had no answer to Tiote and the bloody good Cabaye.
Hutton doesn't look match fit to me. Defensively ok, but very little going forward and some rubbish crossing.
Warnock was a mixed bag, so too Gabby.
Dunne and Collins, not bad, though the former fell asleep for their equaliser.
I thought Bannan looked class, lovely ball for the goal and generally very tidy - certainly shouldn't have taken him off and kept N'Zog on.
Last word - Shay Given was absolutely magnificent.
-
Bent needs more than 1 opportunity for him to score. I know he missed one but that's what strikers like him do. Bear with me - they tend to score the 2nd or 3rd time out of every 5 chances. If he is leading the line as it were, he needs a succession of opportunities all through the game. I was listening on 5L so I'm at the mercy of the commentators, but I didn't hear many (any?) opportunities made for him to capitalise upon, apart from the one he missed. That's really a waste of a striker of his calibre.
I love Gabby to bits by the way and totally appreciate his goal. But he is a different kind of player than Bent and his scoring chances come about in a different way.
I think that a manager should be looking to make the most out of everybody's talents. Maybe we were hamstrung with injuries so Bent was a loser in the end, but I have to say I was disappointed today with the freedom we afforded Newcastle in midfield, especially.
-
The sight of Peter Grant and Alex McLeish pointing blankly at one another on the sideline is already wearing thin for me I'm afraid. Clueless doesnt even come close
I reckon we need a "Questions for the Manager" thread.
-
Bannan only played today because Heskey was injured, soonest he could he got him of the field.
he doesnt like Bannan, he doesnt rate Bannan, he doesnt want to use him if he can help it in his team set up,
Bannan will have to be MOTM every week to keep his place, AM looks for every excuse not to play him.
todays performance was very reminisant of a lot of games played over the last 4 seasons, wasnt the worst certainly not the best, i can live with it to be honest,
what i cant live with is the manager not wanting to play the best midfielder we have got, and leaving players on who are woefully out of form,
N'Zog is trying to get into the top '5 of worst players for Villa' on the memories thread, if he carries on this way he'l be making it
-
Am I the only one thinking that Given should have come for the cross when Newcastle scored? Other than that he was an obvious MotM, and it's a worry that our keeper is our best player in a home game against a team of the calibre of Newcastle.
-
The sight of Peter Grant and Alex McLeish pointing blankly at one another on the sideline is already wearing thin for me I'm afraid. Clueless doesnt even come close
I've been giving McLeish the excuse that he was at a crap club last season... I'm now coming round to the possibility that he is actually a crap manager.
-
Bannan only played today because Heskey was injured, soonest he could he got him of the field.
he doesnt like Bannan, he doesnt rate Bannan, he doesnt want to use him if he can help it in his team set up,
Bannan will have to be MOTM every week to keep his place, AM looks for every excuse not to play him.
todays performance was very reminisant of a lot of games played over the last 4 seasons, wasnt the worst certainly not the best, i can live with it to be honest,
what i cant live with is the manager not wanting to play the best midfielder we have got, and leaving players on who are woefully out of form,
N'Zog is trying to get into the top '5 of worst players for Villa' on the memories thread, if he carries on this way he'l be making it
I can certainly live with performances like that.
They just leave me wondering whats the point?
-
In Bent we have one of the top strikers when balls are played to him in a certain way i.e. slid through on the deck from forward running midfield players. Did we once try this today, did we f***.
I know many have been having a go about the previous manager on the Gabby thread but I am afraid GH's style of football is light years ahead of that put forward by AM.
If we are going to be a mid-table side, I would rather play attractive football and lose some than this turgid rubbish. Football is a simple game of pass and move into space. How often do our players actually do that.
-
Am I the only one thinking that Given should have come for the cross when Newcastle scored? Other than that he was an obvious MotM, and it's a worry that our keeper is our best player in a home game against a team of the calibre of Newcastle.
its rare enough shay will leave the line, although for that one maybe he should have come out and punched it clear.
Still though when I look at the third goal the ridiculously overrated Ben Foster let in today, thankfully McLeish got one thing right anyway and that was getting Shay in.
-
Agreed, OMVF.
Turgid rubbish. It is early days yet but all the signs are that we are going to be playing the way he had Small Heath playing.
We started to make some advances technically under Houllier. Unfortunately we seem to have junked it all and gone back to a style that makes O'Neill's look flamboyant by comparison.
-
Today was all about the midfield. Compare the two performances, one flowed the other looked disjointed.
It would appear Delph is the sitting, defensive midfielder, Stan is now our box to box central midfielder, Bannan our right sided creative midfielder and N'Zogbia, well, he wears the number 10 shirt. To Newcastles credit, they played almost everything down our right where Hutton looks like a poor man's Cuellar or through the centre where we let them run at us. We're really missing NRC and Luke Young, not to mention the other two.
After a great opening 20 minutes we just sat back and let them dictate the game. If Bent had finished the move from N'Zogbia and Petrov, maybe we would have gone on to beat them comfortably but instead we gave them the ball back at every opportunity and allowed them to gain more and more confidence.
In the end, it was very much like MON never left. Frustrating to watch and missed opportunities. Sort out the midfield and we'll be fine and that should start by dropping Y'Zogbia. He's still a passenger we can't afford to carry.
-
We will be convincingly beat by QPR or it'll be another negative, uninspiring draw.
-
Am I the only one thinking that Given should have come for the cross when Newcastle scored? Other than that he was an obvious MotM, and it's a worry that our keeper is our best player in a home game against a team of the calibre of Newcastle.
its rare enough shay will leave the line, although for that one maybe he should have come out and punched it clear.
Still though when I look at the third goal the ridiculously overrated Ben Foster let in today, thankfully McLeish got one thing right anyway and that was getting Shay in.
In fairness at the blose he got in a quality keeper in Hart on loan.
Problem is that Hart was by far their best player that year, and Given is most likely going to be far and away our best player. You do not want your goalkeeper to have to be your best player.
-
We will convincingly beat by QPR or it'll be another negative uninspiring draw.
I don't think we'll even get a point.
-
What a load of desperately dull shite. As predicted, we'll draw most of our games, with just the odd win chucked in to keep us safe. No wonder nobody wants to watch it.
-
And to think I was ridiculed by someone, albeit it very nicely, for rubbishing their prediction of 5-0
My advice to all those predicting 4-0 and the like beforehand is a big 'get real'
We will probably survive this season though whether it is by our own efforts or through every other team from 6th downwards (once the league has settled down and we have the predictable top 6) winning one week and losing the next - witness today - remains to be seen...
-
Why the bloody hell do we still have no central midfield? We get dominated in that area week in, week out and it's been happening for years, bar the period when Milner was moved into the middle. The terrifying thing is, that Delph and Petrov are comfortably the best options we have in that area.
And Bannan...we should be building a side around him. He's the most intelligent footballer at the club, he should be sent out there every match and told to float around in the gap between the opposition midfield and defence, and everyone else should be instructed to make runs for him. The lad is one of the few proper footballers at the club and it pains me to see him wasted in wide areas all the sodding time.
-
I think we are not half as bad as some are making out. Newcastle played quite well, we played ok and in fairness could have scored a couple more ourselves, but it is being made out that we got a lucky goal and then sat on our 18 yard line, which is total nonsense.
Biggest issue was NZogbia, who is clearly not up to pace, so Albrighton should be starting in place of him. Bannan did well, but Delph IMO was very poor today, and Jenas can't be fit soon enough. Midfield wise we are light and short of experienced quality and it showed with Cabeye looking a hell of a player for them. Hutton needs some time to settle, and Bent needs to play himself back into form and fitness.
Given is top drawer. Totally brilliant, and way better than Big Brad was. I think people need to look at it objectively though, 2 unbeaten sides stayed unbeaten, and either could have won it. Hardly wrist slashing time. We will get about 50 points, which would be about what we would expect this season.
-
We will convincingly beat by QPR or it'll be another negative uninspiring draw.
I don't think we'll even get a point.
If the manager makes the required changes we can be a tight and explosive team. We could win in west London. However, these managers who have managed in Scotland recently seem to be stubborn, blinkered and slower than a supertanker to change course. I would give him another 6 games. If he doesn't make the basic and blindingly obvious changes that any football fan can see he needs to do - then get rid.
-
Can't complain about undefeated, but we're due for a win. Glad to see Warnock play well and Gabby to get on the score sheet. I don't see the worry behind Hutton, I thought he played okay and got forward a few times well. Ireland was clever his first 10 minutes on but faded a little bit, but our team never had much possession to aid his style of play. Bannan and Delph played well for me. Bent, anonymous.. and I hate using that word. I'd give Delfounso a run for Bolton.
Our first half was pretty bright with the momentum pretty even, but our second half just wasn't good enough. I was a bit confused when Petrov went off but I was glad to see a less experienced side could still handle the last 30. I thought Ireland looked promising, he wants to do well.
Given, absolute savage.
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
-
What annoys me is when you hear the pundits who haven't watched 90 minutes of us this season saying 'It's been a good start for McLeish at Villa, still undefeated'. What a load of bollocks. Yes we're undefeated but we've had one of the easiest starts a team could wish for in this league and we've drawn four games out of five and been absolutely shit in four games out of five, and our only win came against Blackburn who never win away. The football and tactics are diabolical and they won't change anytime.
-
If we want to break out of our "funk" McLeish needs to play Bannan, Albrighton, and Ireland (yes Ireland) together with Bent and Gabby. They need to develop chemistry. Bannan and Albrighton seem to be the only guys with some vision. Ireland needs time on the pitch. Warnock worked his *ss off. If we didn't have Given......... We have a really rich owner - why are we just middling along?
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
Those stats are pretty depressing. Newcastle are an average side at best.
-
What a load of desperately dull shite. As predicted, we'll draw most of our games, with just the odd win chucked in to keep us safe. No wonder nobody wants to watch it.
You haven't ever wanted to watch it, or at least that's the impression you've given since MON was first in charge.
-
Spot on, Ozzjim. Get the midfield right and I think we can get more than 50 points providing Bent finds his goalscoring boots. I'd have bet your house he'd have scored those two sitters today.
-
lack of creativity and shots on goal again, defence looks more solid but no supply to bent anymore and one win from 5 winnable games , unbeaten yes but good to watch -no!
nzog very poor today and given won us the point -again.
-
Newcastle are an average side at best.
Newcastle are unbeaten and currently fourth in the league.
-
predictable garbage...
-
Really awful performance today.
Positives - Given, what a great buy; Collins, Dunne & Warnock played well; occassional moments of great play
Negatives - N'Zogbia, it's just not happening; playing Bannan out wide (what's the point); the crowd booing when Petrov was brought off - he may not have been the best player on the pitch, but he was hardly putting in a Messi-esque performance; general attacking play was non-existent
-
Looked like two pretty poor teams to me, and I'd say a draw was just about a fair result (although either team winning it wouldn't have been a surprise).
We are going to be scrapping it out with another ten or so teams who are about as good as us, which is not very good at all, to finish mid-table. And that's the Premier League.
A bit of a cliche, but if we are going to be an also-ran (again), I'd at least like us to be a little bit entertaining while we're at it. Maybe the coaching reshuffle will have an impact. I really, really hope so.
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
Why 'lol'?
A Villa fan says, 'maybe not one of our best performances' and looks at the possible reasons. I can't find a lot to 'lol' about, but I can discuss what the problems today seemed to have been, rejoice in Gabby's goal and look for a way forward.
Break open a coconut from one of those bloody palm trees, add the milk to a cocktail of your choice and look to a stimulating discussion about what it will take to flatten Bolton and QPR!
-
We will convincingly beat by QPR or it'll be another negative uninspiring draw.
I don't think we'll even get a point.
If the manager makes the required changes we can be a tight and explosive team. We could win in west London. However, these managers who have managed in Scotland recently seem to be stubborn, blinkered and slower than a supertanker to change course. I would give him another 6 games. If he doesn't make the basic and blindingly obvious changes that any football fan can see he needs to do - then get rid.
You're joking, McLeish will still be here in five years time unless he overachieves and someone bigger comes in for him.
-
We will convincingly beat by QPR or it'll be another negative uninspiring draw.
I don't think we'll even get a point.
If the manager makes the required changes we can be a tight and explosive team. We could win in west London. However, these managers who have managed in Scotland recently seem to be stubborn, blinkered and slower than a supertanker to change course. I would give him another 6 games. If he doesn't make the basic and blindingly obvious changes that any football fan can see he needs to do - then get rid.
You're joking, McLeish will still be here in five years time unless he overachieves and someone bigger comes in for him.
Five years of draws. VP average crowd 18,000.
-
Spot on, Ozzjim. Get the midfield right and I think we can get more than 50 points providing Bent finds his goalscoring boots. I'd have bet your house he'd have scored those two sitters today.
I think a lot needs to change before we can contemplate close to 50 points. We have 7 points from 5 games and we couldn't really have picked a nicer set of fixtures to start.
Its ok saying Bent will find form, but when we don't have enough of the ball (see 41% possession today), or enough attacking intent or creativity, then where are his chances going to come from? We created one chance for him today. (The other one was a woeful defensive mistake)
Its a pretty poor league, 8th downwards, so we'll probably stay up.
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
Those stats are pretty depressing. Newcastle are an average side at best.
The thing is, if those stats are reversed in our favour I would be positive about today. We may not of won but if we had put in a performance which matched the good stats I wouldn't feel too down because I will never slam the team if we play well because I can take postives out of the game knowing we did well and that we'll hopefully get better.
Today though I just can't see any postives apart from the defence being pretty stable like it's been since game 1.
We really need to work hard on keeping possession of the ball, pressing the opposition instead of casually passing it around, be more clinical in front of goal and MORE SHOTS ON GOAL. It's quite simple, the more shots you have on goal, it's more likely you're going to score than not... unless you only have 3 shots on target but score all of them.
-
Newcastle are an average side at best.
Newcastle are unbeaten and currently fourth in the league.
Who have they played though? A self destructing Arsenal team 1st game, then a crap Sunderland and a Fulham team who are notoriously bad after playing midweek. Add to that a very mediocre villa side. I wouldn't read too much into them being 4th. They'll massively overachieve if they finish in the top half.
-
Looks like Lester Piggott might be looking for a new job soon - any takers?
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
Why 'lol'?
A Villa fan says, 'maybe not one of our best performances' and looks at the possible reasons. I can't find a lot to 'lol' about, but I can discuss what the problems today seemed to have been, rejoice in Gabby's goal and look for a way forward.
Break open a coconut from one of those bloody palm trees, add the milk to a cocktail of your choice and look to a stimulating discussion about what it will take to flatten Bolton and QPR!
I'm not a big stat person but in this case I do think the stats are an accurate reflection of today's game. Defensively we were pretty sound but going forward is a big weakness for us right now.
And yes, hopefully we can beat Bolton in the cup during the week. A win would be really good and I think I could look forward to the QPR game more. I will take your advice and go and make a Pina Colada and chill out...
-
Shots on Target:
Villa 2
Newcastle 6
Attempts on goal:
Villa 7
Newcastle 7
Corners:
Villa 4
Newcastle 9
Pass success rate:
Villa 73%
Newcastle 83%
Possession:
Villa 41.2%
Newcastle 58.8%
lol
Those stats are pretty depressing. Newcastle are an average side at best.
The thing is, if those stats are reversed in our favour I would be positive about today. We may not of won but if we had put in a performance which matched the good stats I wouldn't feel too down because I will never slam the team if we play well because I can take postives out of the game knowing we did well and that we'll hopefully get better.
Today though I just can't see any postives apart from the defence being pretty stable like it's been since game 1.
We really need to work hard on keeping possession of the ball, pressing the opposition instead of casually passing it around, be more clinical in front of goal and MORE SHOTS ON GOAL. It's quite simple, the more shots you have on goal, it's more likely you're going to score than not... unless you only have 3 shots on target but score all of them.
Agree.
And I still don't know why we got rid of Makoun. We need talented midfield players like him to confound the opposition and most importantly, put through those passes to Bent and other forwards running through. Can we still get him back?
Will mix another pina colada and join you in spirit. With a little umbrella!
-
I think we are not half as bad as some are making out. Newcastle played quite well, we played ok and in fairness could have scored a couple more ourselves, but it is being made out that we got a lucky goal and then sat on our 18 yard line, which is total nonsense.
Biggest issue was NZogbia, who is clearly not up to pace, so Albrighton should be starting in place of him. Bannan did well, but Delph IMO was very poor today, and Jenas can't be fit soon enough. Midfield wise we are light and short of experienced quality and it showed with Cabeye looking a hell of a player for them. Hutton needs some time to settle, and Bent needs to play himself back into form and fitness.
Given is top drawer. Totally brilliant, and way better than Big Brad was. I think people need to look at it objectively though, 2 unbeaten sides stayed unbeaten, and either could have won it. Hardly wrist slashing time. We will get about 50 points, which would be about what we would expect this season.
This tallies with my view far more than the rather more critical posts of almost everyone else. Except I can't see why Delph is coming in for so much flak, I thought he broke up play quite well and brought it out of defence intelligently on occasion.
They were two evenly matched teams, and I thought it was a fairly entertaining game. We didn't hoof it, except for a short period before half time, and we tried to play a passing game from what I could see. Both sides had periods in the ascendency, and it could have gone either way. The excellent Given (a big improvement on Brad in my view) saved us a couple of times,and Bent could have wrapped it up for us. The move to set up that chance was sublime, and he won't have a better chance all season.
Weaker links today, I thought Hutton didn't look up to speed and Zog has been poor all season. I thought Ireland showed some very nice touches when he came on.
Pardew reckoned they should have won on SSN, Le Tissier's less partisan view was that he was talking bollocks.
The result wasn't ideal and we are drawing too many matches but, but Newcastle are 4th and unbeaten and I think there are some positive signs. Certainly not as depressing as some would make out.
-
I must be on my own reading the comments about Bannan today.
I thought he was very poor, the game passed him by.
He made the odd good pass, but generally I thought he looked well out of sorts.
By comparisson I though Stan was excellent. He was motivated and motivating. Problem is, he was doing the work of 3 because Delph and Bannan are far too lightweight.
As for super Shay, well, he was man of the match by a mile.
Problem is, you don't really want your goalie being MOTM, do you ?
-
Biggest noise from the crowd today was for God at half time.
Second biggest noise of the day were the usual suspects booing at the full time whistle.
All rather flat today but I am still not sure which way things are going to turn, whether all these draws will start turning into wins or defeats.
I am not usually one to start targetting individuals, but on the evidence so far.....N'Zogbia, why ?
-
I've said it before, but those saying McLeish at least builds a solid defence ignore the fact that, under his management, goalkeepers seem to get a lot of attention and praise. The truth is that he doesn't build a solid defence, he just sits everyone back, which is a very long way from the same thing.
He just can't get it together, can he. He plays the right system, but plays Heskey where he should play Bannan. Heskey gets injured, he plays Bannan but out of position in some garbage system where we never have the ball for him to use it in the first place.
Here's the problem with the 4-4-2 as we played it today. In possession, the midfield is far too isolated from the attack and doesn't have enough options on the ball to really keep it. Certainly our midfield's forte is not physical strength, and we were inevitably outmuscled against Tiote and Cabaye. To make up for this we should have played to our strength, which is put three in midfield and work the ball around them, especially with Bannan. We didn't do this, the forwards were largely isolated, and Bannan's only set-up for Gabby came when he drifted well in-field of his own volition.
Out of possession, the system doesn't allow us to put pressure on the ball further back for them, because of the risk of being bypassed in the midfield. The forwards were largely redundant without the ball, being bypassed and the absence of other players further back opened up space for them in attack, while their isolation from the rest of the team rendered their effectiveness on the counter negligible, our punts up to them on the break more often than not resulting in losing the ball and inviting the pressure on again.
All in all, a slightly depressing vicious circle, and the feeling that he can't quite get everything right was summed up for me when he brought on the two right players but brought off the two wrong ones. It was a bizarre substitution and summed up the situation for me.
-
We are unbeaten for 8 league game if you include 2 wins against Liverpool/Arsenal and draw with wigan. But that is last season. I always believe if the midfield is right the team is good, and our midfield is not. I don't think we have a good midfield for long time.
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
-
How long will it be until we hear the words "Aston Villa" and "draw specialists" being spouted in the media?
MON was criticised for having too many draws which pretty much cost us a CL place...under AM so far, I'd rather we'd lost 2 and won 2 instead of the 4 draws, and we'd be sitting in 4th place with 9pts. More realistically, if we'd won and lost just one more instead of 2 of the draws, we may not have our unbeaten record but we'd in 5th with 8pts and no doubt witnessed some more exciting football.
As it stands, we are unbeaten with 7pts in 7th place but with our next 2 games against QPR and Wigan, AM really needs to but some wins on the table otherwise serious questions will need to be asked...with that being said, yes we are due a win but we are also due a loss so lets hope it wont come till at least Man City away.
-
It seemed like we were the away team, giving them loads of space in midfield, then counter attacking, getting a goal, and spending most of the second half with 10 men behind the ball. They will feel aggrieved they didn't win.
If we draw every game between now and the end of season, is it still possible to avoid relegation.
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
Bollocks is Delph 'shit'. He's a kid with bags of talent.
-
I had to turn off 5 live halfway through the second half,couldnt take them praising Newcastle anymore. Feel sorry for the poor folk who went.
Then again,this shouldnt really be a suprise with our squad and manager,were a stodgy old team,and when we play the better teams,then we'll really get an idea of how good we are.
At least were the first team on my three draw accumalator.
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
Bollocks is Delph 'shit'. He's a kid with bags of talent.
Bags of talent my arse, in league one he had yes but he's not a Premier League player. He charges round like a headless chicken, he can't tackle and he gives the ball away more than anyone i've seen. Him and Petrov will get dominated in almost every game we play this season.
-
Anyway, what happened to the greatest fans in the world today?. Couldn't have been more than 1800 tops. Mind you, they still made more noise than we did.
-
The problem is, you can see a massive Ashley Young shaped hole in the midfield, and N'Zogbia just don't fill it up.
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
Bollocks is Delph 'shit'. He's a kid with bags of talent.
Bags of talent my arse, in league one he had yes but he's not a Premier League player. He charges round like a headless chicken, he can't tackle and he gives the ball away more than anyone i've seen. Him and Petrov will get dominated in almost every game we play this season.
I disagree. He's got everything the modern midfielder needs, the problem is that he's playing in a position where he is exposed which means a slightly ineffective game looks worse than say if he was out on the wing. Younger players always have these games. It's how they deal with them that determine if they stay at the top. If Bannan has a poor spell will you be calling him shit too? Because it will happen.
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
Bollocks is Delph 'shit'. He's a kid with bags of talent.
Ignore him. He just repeats the same old shit, over and over, until someone bites.
-
Well that was pretty bland. Sat too deep and too narrow. No width and no flair at all, and consequently no quality for Bent to feed on, which is a worry for him staying long term at VP
On the radio on the way back someone suggested N'Zogbia looks poor because of the system McLeish plays - not sure how a system affects whether you lose the ball 9 times out of 10 - he's not half the player he seemed to be at Wigan. The Petrov substitution was baffling at the time but post-match interview McLeish said he'd turned his ankle.
On the plus side Gabby is in the form of his life and worked really hard chasing back as well. And Given is keeping these draws from becoming defeats
-
I said before the Fulham game that Petrov and Delph is a piss poor central midfield and if that was the best we had then we would struggle big time this season. Petrov is past it and Delph is shit.
Bollocks is Delph 'shit'. He's a kid with bags of talent.
Ignore him. He just repeats the same old shit, over and over, until someone bites.
I see....
I actually think I might have sat next to him a few weeks ago (Blackburn). If it wasn't him then they should get a room. Anyway, too many draws but unbeaten.
-
My worry is that Heskey will come straight back into the first team when fit. I'd really love to see what Bannan could do behind Bent. Or even Ireland.
It all just feels so deflated at the minute. There's still that horrible 'transitional' feeling, where we haven't settled on a gameplan, no one really knows what the best XI is and we're just kinda muddling along. We've fallen such a long way from even two years ago.
-
Dull and uninspiring,i agree the midfield is lightweight and Nzog looked bloody awful as did Delph.Could be a long winter !!
-
Newcastle are an average side at best.
Newcastle are unbeaten and currently fourth in the league.
Who have they played though? A self destructing Arsenal team 1st game, then a crap Sunderland and a Fulham team who are notoriously bad after playing midweek. Add to that a very mediocre villa side. I wouldn't read too much into them being 4th. They'll massively overachieve if they finish in the top half.
You can only beat those put in front of you. If you gave them a decent striker they'd be a very decent team, as you saw today, their midfield works as a unit.
-
Two average teams playing an average Premier league game. Average crowd, average atmosphere.
Still unbeaten after five games, with QPR and Wigan up next. One draw and one win?
It would help if we didn't play a forward with an obvious injury for half an hour. If Delfouneso had come on after an hour, I think we would have won.
-
John Collins - couldn't make a pass at Angelina Jolie - out of form - sell him please.
Brother of James? We're supposed to be offering him a two-year contract extension...
-
That was really, really, really, really boring. Given was immense. N'Zogbia was awful. Bannan and Gabby played well as did Albrighton. Ireland played a few good, incisive passes. Bent looks out of sorts but he's not getting much service. Was Petrov substituted due to an injury?
-
Bent was not in the game for most of today, Nzog was poor again and Delph gives me cause for concern.
With Bent the way he is at the mo its like we are a player short and couple that with the weakness in the centre it's no surprise that we were going backwards more than forwards today.
I though Bannan had a good game and I would have left him on and taken Nzog off, if MCleish couldn't see that Bannan should have stayed on then he should have gone to spec savers
-
At least it was slightly more entertaining than the wolves game (!?).
Thought Bannan played well and we should give him some game time. Agree with the earlier poster to let him and Albrighton have a run in the team. Also thought Ireland looked interested and got stuck in. He played 2 or 3 quick intelligent passes and should start the next game.
Bent needs decent balls in to him not a hoof from Given and a knock down from gabby so lets get the young lads outwide scarring defenders
On the negative side Petrov was too slow and too negative as usual (why does he start?) but the worst player on the pitch was N'Zogbia. If he's not interested in at least trying to run or do something useful stick him in the stiffs for a few weeks. I'll forgive most things if you at least try but he was shocking today. £10m for that, wigan must be pissing themselves.
Still season ticket renewed so in it for the long haul (and I think it might be).
-
We seemed to run out of ideas after Gabby`s goal
Superb saves by Given which kept us in it although I do think we missed some half chances
Getting worried about N`Phukin Useless, not even close to what we had in Ash Young
-
I think we are not half as bad as some are making out. Newcastle played quite well, we played ok and in fairness could have scored a couple more ourselves, but it is being made out that we got a lucky goal and then sat on our 18 yard line, which is total nonsense.
Biggest issue was NZogbia, who is clearly not up to pace, so Albrighton should be starting in place of him. Bannan did well, but Delph IMO was very poor today, and Jenas can't be fit soon enough. Midfield wise we are light and short of experienced quality and it showed with Cabeye looking a hell of a player for them. Hutton needs some time to settle, and Bent needs to play himself back into form and fitness.
Given is top drawer. Totally brilliant, and way better than Big Brad was. I think people need to look at it objectively though, 2 unbeaten sides stayed unbeaten, and either could have won it. Hardly wrist slashing time. We will get about 50 points, which would be about what we would expect this season.
This tallies with my view far more than the rather more critical posts of almost everyone else. Except I can't see why Delph is coming in for so much flak, I thought he broke up play quite well and brought it out of defence intelligently on occasion.
They were two evenly matched teams, and I thought it was a fairly entertaining game. We didn't hoof it, except for a short period before half time, and we tried to play a passing game from what I could see. Both sides had periods in the ascendency, and it could have gone either way. The excellent Given (a big improvement on Brad in my view) saved us a couple of times,and Bent could have wrapped it up for us. The move to set up that chance was sublime, and he won't have a better chance all season.
Weaker links today, I thought Hutton didn't look up to speed and Zog has been poor all season. I thought Ireland showed some very nice touches when he came on.
Pardew reckoned they should have won on SSN, Le Tissier's less partisan view was that he was talking bollocks.
The result wasn't ideal and we are drawing too many matches but, but Newcastle are 4th and unbeaten and I think there are some positive signs. Certainly not as depressing as some would make out.
Agree with both. Only add on would be that I don't think Bannan is a wide man and if we let him play in the middle he will dictate games in a way that the current, more defensively minded, Delph and Petrov blatantly don't.
The biggest concern for me is today was another "on another day we would have won that", you can't afford too many of them in a season.
-
John Collins - couldn't make a pass at Angelina Jolie - out of form - sell him please.
Brother of James? We're supposed to be offering him a two-year contract extension...
Some of them would find it hard to make a pass at Joan Collins at the moment.
-
Positives, well we're still unbeaten, Shay Given and Gabby. That double sliding tackle by Warnock. Had Bent scored to make it 2-0 I reckon we would have pissed that game.
Negatives. N'Zogbia, christ he was shocking today. Our passing was dire, a lot of the Newcastle pressure came from us giving away possession far too easily. The midfield was the problem, maybe that was a glimpse of why McLeish likes Heskey, helps us keep possession and have someone to knock the long ball to. Delph was meh, Bannan was in and out the game often making the wrong decision with his passes.
Did anyone else notice Gabby started to look increasingly frustrated/pissed off at how poor we were in the second half?
And finally, to the Newcastles fans singing about empty seats, and the Villa fans singing shit support to Newcastle, can you spot the irony?
-
You all seem quite calm. Before the season began, i forecast 21 points by the end of the year. Villa are already 4 points behind, through failing to beat Wolves & Newcastle at home. The team has no rhythm no pattern no fluency and, basically, is not playing football.
-
Boring drawing Villa, zZzZz
-
Cold light of morning as they say, my thoughts are still the fact that was awful.
Newcastle over ran the midfield area's, at times they where peppering our defence with 1 attack after another, eevery ball that came out of defence came straight back at us, put simply, be in no doubt Shay Given saved the day and on a different day we would all be on here now talking about a trouncing, no question.
We have no midfield, Bannan and Albrighton good at times but they will not last the rigours and pressures of a full season in the Premiership, particularly if we are fighting the drop again.
N'Zogbia, this is a player we paid how much for!!!!!!!!!!! and he is in place as a swap out for Young or Downing, sorry but he don't get near them, and why would we expect he should, this poor lad CV epitomizes bottom of the Premiership and Championship football, Wigan and Newcastle.
I am really concerned for Darren Bent, i don't think for one minute this player will stay with the club longer than Jan, he'll be of in the next transfer window, he won't put up with a club that is set up and playing football like this, he's got way to much at stake to fanny about.
We have a problem, no question we'll get the sooth sayers on saying well we are still unbeaten and we are 7th, fact is the season is still warming up, we will at some point very soon come up against a team that really really wants to beat us, that's when the poo will really hit the fan.
Awful game.
-
I've not been to day (non-league for me again, well FA Cup). I've briefly read the BBC report, and scanned this thread and it is exactly what I expected to read. And exactly what I expected for the team the minute the manager was appointed.
I'm all for getting behind the manager, back the team etc etc but it's an average manager with average players (mostly) turning out average results. But average can turn bad very quickly.
-
I feel full of confidence and hope! Mind you, I'm off to Munich in the morning for Oktoberfest!!!
Prost!!
-
I've not been to day (non-league for me again, well FA Cup). I've briefly read the BBC report, and scanned this thread and it is exactly what I expected to read. And exactly what I expected for the team the minute the manager was appointed.
I'm all for getting behind the manager, back the team etc etc but it's an average manager with average players (mostly) turning out average results. But average can turn bad very quickly.
Nev: Did you see anybody we could improve the team with.......................................sign em up.
-
I feel full of confidence and hope! Mind you, I'm off to Munich in the morning for Oktoberfest!!!
Prost!!
No wonder your full of confidence, you'll be looking at Villa the right way, through a alcoholic beer mist....
-
It works for me.
-
...and several hundred miles away....
-
So a quick scan at the thread tells me we need to sack the manager in 6 games and N'Zogbia has already cemented our place in the worst five Villa players of all time?
Oh dear...
Not a great performance but still unbeaten (fact, whether the anti McLeish brigade like it or not) and with two reasonable games coming up we could be sat with 11/13 points from our opening 7 games.
Still lots of room for improvement especially Messrs Bent, N'Zogbia and Hutton but early days folks, keep the faith
-
That's two games in a row where two very average football teams have outplayed us in the middle of the park. You didn't have to be psychic to predict both the style of football and the results that McLeish was going to serve up.
-
It works for me.
and..........................................................it works for me.....
-
Shay was MOTM despite Gabby's goal. Bent ...there is something wrong and as for NZogbia...absolute waste.
-
We were outclassed by ..hang on Newcastle today. Unbelievebale!
Just as against Wolves for a long period ball passed our midfield by with defenders anf Shay having to be at the top of their game.
The problem is when draws turn in defeats we will struggle and I can see us going the way of SHA last season. Very worried ...by this unbeaten run.
-
Shay was MOTM despite Gabby's goal. Bent ...there is something wrong and as for NZogbia...absolute waste.
Bent seems to be still suffering with a groin strain. Plus he has minimal service.
-
Shay was MOTM despite Gabby's goal. Bent ...there is something wrong and as for NZogbia...absolute waste.
Bent seems to be still suffering with a groin strain. Plus he has minimal service.
And when he gets the chances he misses them. I'd rest him until he's as near 100% fit as possible.
-
Bent maybe injured, but he is also not focused that miss today was pretty awesome.
-
My wife's dad died yesterday and just before he passed away, I told him that Villa would beat the geordies today. He was a life long Villa fan who hadn't been able to get to Villa Park for years because of the distance he lives from the ground and his poor health.
I said to my wife when Gabby scored that that was for him but I'm sorry to say the performance of some of our players today was not worthy of our great club. My wife and myself console ourselves by thinking that her dad would at least have enjoyed having a good moan about another drab performance.
There were highlights such as Warnock looking like he really cared and some fine saves by Given but I cannot understand why N'Zogbia and Delph were not substituted. You can't tell me that Ireland was better than Bannan.
-
Can't disagree with much that has been said already. Our central midfielders seemed to be pretty non existent at times. And as for N'Zogbia ..............
We were lucky to get a draw from a game that was and should have been winnable.
There were a few moments when we played the ball about and we looked pretty decent. Time to let them off the leash Alec.
-
Given Dunne Gabby excellent
Petrov ok, Delph wasteful but showed glimpses, Bent not right.
Warnock and Hutton Ok Bannan showed some great moments,
Colllins cant pass but put in some decent blocks
Albrighton was good when he came on as was Ireland
Nzogbia what a total waste of space, wonders around like a little boy lost and seems not to give a toss.
-
Given Dunne Gabby excellent
Petrov ok, Delph wasteful but showed glimpses, Bent not right.
Warnock and Hutton Ok Bannan showed some great moments,
Colllins cant pass but put in some decent blocks
Albrighton was good when he came on as was Ireland
Nzogbia what a total waste of space, wonders around like a little boy lost and seems not to give a toss.
A pretty good assessment.
-
Finding it very difficult to be suicidal about today.
I think we all expected us to be playing this way. Gabby, Petrov, Warnock, Dunne and Collins are looking much better than last year. Given is looking better than I'd expected (even though he never leaves his line - Friedel would have taken the cross they scored from). Bannan looks good. Delph is having his crazy youthful years and will hopefully be learning from it.
Bent and N'Zogbia seem to be our weak links at the moment. I'm fairly confident that both will come good.
Or alternatively I might just go and slit my wrists because we are playing exactly as I expected with exactly the limitations that I expected.
-
Why the need for the last paragraph? The rest of your post is pretty much spot on.
-
I was looking forward to seeing Tiote today, he did not dissapoint.
What a player quick, strong, passes the ball simply and quickly.
A class act.
-
Why the need for the last paragraph? The rest of your post is pretty much spot on.
Because I think that lots of people are beating themselves up unnecessarily. And I was pointing out that I don't really see why.
-
The thing is Dave we should be able to get more out of the resources that are available, start with a formation that suits the players we have and start playing players that are fit on form and want to play.
-
I'm generally a pretty positive Villa fan but I'm concerned at what I witnessed today. We made Newcastle look like something they're not, ie a very good side, when they are really an ordinary team that was lucky not to have been trounced by newly promoted QPR last monday. Hot on the heels of a lucky point at Goodison last week, there is something seriously wrong with our midfield for them to be so dominated as they were again for 70 minutes. Our unbeaten run is misleading. While there are no easy games, the fixture list has given us a relatively hazard free start to the season. God help us though when we play the Manchester clubs. We will get a hiding.
-
Everyone gets a hiding from them.
-
The thing is Dave we should be able to get more out of the resources that are available, start with a formation that suits the players we have and start playing players that are fit on form and want to play.
I can't really see what else we can do. Sticking Clarke into central midfield would be useful as an alternative to Petrov and Delph but I'm not sure where else we can go. We just don't the personnel in that position anymore.
We're playing our best strikers in their best positions. We have four attacking midfielders and are using them all pretty much as we should. We always have a good amount of attacking options on the pitch and they all change positions regularly.
Our back five picks itself and all of them are playing anywhere between competently and very well.
With the players we have available, I'm not really sure what else we are supposed to do.
-
Shame stan got injured and had to come off we missed him, N'ZZZZZZZZZZOGBIA had a shocker, if he did manage to get round the full back his pass or cross was very disapointing.
Got what i expected, with Downing and Young gone, our supply to Bent has dried up. It's a good job Gabby knows where the back of the net is at the moment.
-
Doom and gloom in here.
Given is absolutely fantastic. What a keeper. Agile as a cat. Much, much better than Spurs Brad.
The defence looked solid. Dunne is looking back to his best, and I rate Collins incredibly highly. I think he's brilliant. Warnock looks like he cares this season, and is performing well. I don't understand the Hutton negativity, he's still settling in and getting up to full fitness, but he defended well and got forward well today.
Midfield is an issue. Delph looks lost. We need Jenas fit and in the side in his place, we'd look much better in midfield then. Petrov is trying his best this season and he's doing well again. Bannan is, quite simply, sublime. He needs to be starting every game from now on, we'll play better with him in the side. N'Zogbia isn't fit, and it's obvious. He's looked good in flashes, but he needs to wake up a little bit.
No negatives to say about Gabby, he's playing his heart out this season. Is Bent injured? Looks off the pace and should be doing better. We need him fit and flying.
The subs today.. Albrighton is a good option from the bench. Needs more time on days like today when N'Zog isn't doing the business. Ireland looked good when he came on, another one I don't understand the negative comments about. He looked interested and tried to have a go.
We're not playing brilliantly by any means, but we're doing okay. The midfield with Jenas in will be stronger, and if N'Zogbia and Bent can get themselves better involved then we'll be doing a lot better going forward.
-
Doom and gloom in here.
Given is absolutely fantastic. What a keeper. Agile as a cat. Much, much better than Spurs Brad.
The defence looked solid. Dunne is looking back to his best, and I rate Collins incredibly highly. I think he's brilliant. Warnock looks like he cares this season, and is performing well. I don't understand the Hutton negativity, he's still settling in and getting up to full fitness, but he defended well and got forward well today.
Midfield is an issue. Delph looks lost. We need Jenas fit and in the side in his place, we'd look much better in midfield then. Petrov is trying his best this season and he's doing well again. Bannan is, quite simply, sublime. He needs to be starting every game from now on, we'll play better with him in the side. N'Zogbia isn't fit, and it's obvious. He's looked good in flashes, but he needs to wake up a little bit.
No negatives to say about Gabby, he's playing his heart out this season. Is Bent injured? Looks off the pace and should be doing better. We need him fit and flying.
The subs today.. Albrighton is a good option from the bench. Needs more time on days like today when N'Zog isn't doing the business. Ireland looked good when he came on, another one I don't understand the negative comments about. He looked interested and tried to have a go.
We're not playing brilliantly by any means, but we're doing okay. The midfield with Jenas in will be stronger, and if N'Zogbia and Bent can get themselves better involved then we'll be doing a lot better going forward.
Well said.
-
Thought we were poor in many areas but we still should have scored three, Newcastle are quite tidy, our passing is shocking, this isn't new but the new manager needs to sort this out, how the hell can we have so many players who can't pass the ball five yards to a team mate, they should be embarrassed about this.
Given, Dunne and Collins were fantastic, Gabby had a great game too, Bannan did ok, N'Zogbia was a complete and utter waste of space, Ireland looked decent when he came on, actually showed the others how to make simple passes.
-
The thing is Dave we should be able to get more out of the resources that are available, start with a formation that suits the players we have and start playing players that are fit on form and want to play.
I can't really see what else we can do. Sticking Clarke into central midfield would be useful as an alternative to Petrov and Delph but I'm not sure where else we can go. We just don't the personnel in that position anymore.
We're playing our best strikers in their best positions. We have four attacking midfielders and are using them all pretty much as we should. We always have a good amount of attacking options on the pitch and they all change positions regularly.
Our back five picks itself and all of them are playing anywhere between competently and very well.
With the players we have available, I'm not really sure what else we are supposed to do.
Dave good points, I think that the issue is central midfield and Nzog and Bent not performing, although Ireland almost had Bent through within 5 mins of being on the pitch. 4-4-2 did not help.
-
I think that the issue is central midfield
I agree completely.
I think that if we'd been playing this season with Tioté and Cabaye instead of Delph and Petrov we'd have won all five of our games.
Edit - and I say that as a fan of both Delph and Petrov. It's just that neither should be expected to play every game as part of a midfield two (for different reasons)
-
I think that the issue is central midfield
I agree completely.
I think that if we'd been playing this season with Tioté and Cabaye instead of Delph and Petrov we'd have won all five of our games.
Edit - and I say that as a fan of both Delph and Petrov. It's just that neither should be expected to play every game as part of a midfield two (for different reasons)
Dead right so i think we have to play a midfield 3.
-
Why are these Post match pages so soul-destroyingly depressing ? , every week its the same and the funny thing is the views of most of the gloom and doom merchants on here are contrary to those reported in the Press . Being much closer to Vladivostok ( literally ) than Villa Park I can only rely on the early Sunday Morning Sports Pages for my match analysis , Thank God , because if I had to rely on some of the masochistic misanthropes whose vitriolic bile litters these pages I might seriously re-consider my alliegence to the Club I,ve loved and supported for so many years .
From what I,ve already read this morning ( 10 hours ahead ) BOTH sides contributed to a very entertaining game , Shay made 3 outstanding saves but Villa created ( and albeit wasted ) the more clear cut opportunities , general opinion seems to be that an ' entertaining ' NOT ' boring , draw was a fair result .....but then I am reading the views of unbiased professionals and not the myopic views of those who obviously have another agenda and have had since A.M arrived at Villa Park . Give the Manager and his new team a reasonable chance ( Christ ...we,re unbeaten in 7 games !! ) maybe even try , heaven forbid , a little positivity .......then make up your minds , anything but is wholly unjust , talk about punishing someone prior to the crime ! .
Despairingly................................................Godzvilla !
-
It was pretty shite.
-
Just a little...
-
Dunno where you are coming from Godzilla, some pretty balanced stuff on here, well the last 4 pages anyway, the anti Mcleish statements are not that prevelant. I am guessing about 1000 people out of 30,000 booed at full time. It was not that bad but it was not that great either.
-
Pretty awful performance, but this is the way we're going. Defence looks better but its at the expense of everything else. I'd like to know what AM'S long term aim's are because it seems we're here to just make up the numbers. Having to hold on at home against Newcastle, dearie me.....
-
I would just describe the place, manager, the team as solid, predictable, steady, but nothing is going to happen this season to get us on the edge of our seats. The midfield definitely needs sorting out, because Bent is now being completely starved of supply. It's absolutely typical of Villa who have spent years looking for a 20 goal a season striker and now have one, have no one who is able to supply decent balls into him.
-
Respect due to those who paid to watch more dire, boring, negative, clueless, and some cases (Delph & N'Zogbia) inept football.
-
What annoyed me was how cheaply we gave away the ball. That is just heartbreaking. When you have the ball, value it and hang onto it. It's an easy game when you have the ball.
-
Didier Six, David Ginola, Mathieu Berson, Gerard Houllier, Charles N'Zogbia...
We need to just steer clear of anything French!
Centre of midfield is a massive problem, we don't have the players to play just 2 in there. We are going to have to play with 3 and just one wide player.
-
If anything sums up the false dawn, what-might-have-been essence of being an Aston Villa supporter, it is Didier Six's debut.
-
I take it that the honeymoon period is over.
-
I predict that our first new asshole will be ripped next weeks judging by QPR's (in particular Bartons) performance just.
-
Oh and we're either 5th or last on MOTD again, what a shock.
-
Citeh is the first game i'm really not looking forward to. play those tactics and invite them onto us and it could be embarassing
-
Bannons natural position is attacking midfield the problem is he can't tackle and would make an already lightweight midfield featherweight. Notice the way Newcastle always attacked down the side protected by Hutton and Bannon it tells you something. The football was turgid and the only class on display was fron Newcastle and Given, for the people that wanted Houllier gone, i would rather play his brand of football than the rubbish being served up by AM. Mind you it's not all his fault, when you sell your two best players and don't spend to replace them thisis what you get i guess. I think unless we can improve we will be battling relegation this year.
-
Nowhere specific to say this, but in the table we're now quite clearly 7th. Above Everton due to alphabetical order. Yet MOTD just decided to show them as above us. Seems odd. The fact they have a game in hand can't be the reason, surely?
-
Nowhere specific to say this, but in the table we're now quite clearly 7th. Above Everton due to alphabetical order. Yet MOTD just decided to show them as above us. Seems odd. The fact they have a game in hand can't be the reason, surely?
I'd say that makes sense.
Fewer games taken to get to the same place.
-
Just out of interest what is the record for premiership draws in a season? Could be worth a bet.
-
What annoyed me was how cheaply we gave away the ball. That is just heartbreaking. When you have the ball, value it and hang onto it. It's an easy game when you have the ball.
But this isn't new, we even have a Spaniard in the shape of form of Carlos Cuellar in our squad who can't frigging pass, I can't understand why we have so many players who can't frigging pass, it's embarrassing and should be for the manager and coaching staff.
-
What annoyed me was how cheaply we gave away the ball. That is just heartbreaking. When you have the ball, value it and hang onto it. It's an easy game when you have the ball.
But this isn't new, we even have a Spaniard in the shape of form of Carlos Cuellar in our squad who can't frigging pass, I can't understand why we have so many players who can't frigging pass, it's embarrassing and should be for the manager and coaching staff.
isn't that why we've got AM? GH tried to get 'em to pass and failed so Lerner's brought in someone who can work with the players MON lumbered us with. Somewhow i don't think we're going to see a passing game anytime soon.
-
Doom and gloom in here.
Given is absolutely fantastic. What a keeper. Agile as a cat. Much, much better than Spurs Brad.
The defence looked solid. Dunne is looking back to his best, and I rate Collins incredibly highly. I think he's brilliant. Warnock looks like he cares this season, and is performing well. I don't understand the Hutton negativity, he's still settling in and getting up to full fitness, but he defended well and got forward well today.
Midfield is an issue. Delph looks lost. We need Jenas fit and in the side in his place, we'd look much better in midfield then. Petrov is trying his best this season and he's doing well again. Bannan is, quite simply, sublime. He needs to be starting every game from now on, we'll play better with him in the side. N'Zogbia isn't fit, and it's obvious. He's looked good in flashes, but he needs to wake up a little bit.
No negatives to say about Gabby, he's playing his heart out this season. Is Bent injured? Looks off the pace and should be doing better. We need him fit and flying.
The subs today.. Albrighton is a good option from the bench. Needs more time on days like today when N'Zog isn't doing the business. Ireland looked good when he came on, another one I don't understand the negative comments about. He looked interested and tried to have a go.
We're not playing brilliantly by any means, but we're doing okay. The midfield with Jenas in will be stronger, and if N'Zogbia and Bent can get themselves better involved then we'll be doing a lot better going forward.
Well said.
I like that assessment. Players like Bent and N'Zogbia have proved themselves to be good players over the course of their career. They'll come good because they haven't suddenly become bad. The season is a long one and we are still figuring things out. Obviously we want to win games against teams of a similar position or standard to us, but it will come. Today was turgid and a struggle at times, but we'll get there. Nothing more to say about Given. He's magic, and Gabby looks like he really wants it again.
-
Positives - Given with a great save, Warnock looked up for it, Gabby getting the goals and the kids played well and Ireland had a few good touches.
Negatives - NZogbia looked pretty average and you would have thought he'd be up for it against his old club, he could be injured and Bent had some chances but all in all a draw was far!
-
Not read the thread to check others opinions, but we are so average.
-
Doom and gloom in here.
Given is absolutely fantastic. What a keeper. Agile as a cat. Much, much better than Spurs Brad.
The defence looked solid. Dunne is looking back to his best, and I rate Collins incredibly highly. I think he's brilliant. Warnock looks like he cares this season, and is performing well. I don't understand the Hutton negativity, he's still settling in and getting up to full fitness, but he defended well and got forward well today.
Midfield is an issue. Delph looks lost. We need Jenas fit and in the side in his place, we'd look much better in midfield then. Petrov is trying his best this season and he's doing well again. Bannan is, quite simply, sublime. He needs to be starting every game from now on, we'll play better with him in the side. N'Zogbia isn't fit, and it's obvious. He's looked good in flashes, but he needs to wake up a little bit.
No negatives to say about Gabby, he's playing his heart out this season. Is Bent injured? Looks off the pace and should be doing better. We need him fit and flying.
The subs today.. Albrighton is a good option from the bench. Needs more time on days like today when N'Zog isn't doing the business. Ireland looked good when he came on, another one I don't understand the negative comments about. He looked interested and tried to have a go.
We're not playing brilliantly by any means, but we're doing okay. The midfield with Jenas in will be stronger, and if N'Zogbia and Bent can get themselves better involved then we'll be doing a lot better going forward.
Well said.
I like that assessment. Players like Bent and N'Zogbia have proved themselves to be good players over the course of their career. They'll come good because they haven't suddenly become bad. The season is a long one and we are still figuring things out. Obviously we want to win games against teams of a similar position or standard to us, but it will come. Today was turgid and a struggle at times, but we'll get there. Nothing more to say about Given. He's magic, and Gabby looks like he really wants it again.
Agree too with Summers post but with one exception. Jenas is not a holding midfielder, so I can't see him replacing Delph, who for some unknown reason is holding whilst Stan and his tiring legs go box to box. Madness! I can only think Stan fancies a final swan song but when his legs don't get him back to cover, leaving Delph all by his lonesome, you do wonder what AM will do when Jenas is fit.
Get Stan back holding and let either Delph or Jenas to go box to box. Today was a clear example of why we need to change.
-
Does anyone really expect us to be anything other than average? Especially, when year on year we lose quality players and replace them with lesser players. The centre of our midfield dissolved in the second half with Newcastle far superior there. Still, it's not the defensive shambles of last season, we have Bent and Gabby, a quality keeper and something to build on. But if we think we should be whipping teams like Everton, Fulham and the Geordies every week, think again. We are also, also rans.
-
I predict that our first new asshole will be ripped next weeks judging by QPR's (in particular Bartons) performance just.
agreed. all the signs are there, a newly promoted team, now well up for it following their takeover. The stage is set for their first home win against...surprise surprise: Aston Villa.
Previously this 'syndrome' has been put to effect by the likes of Blackburn, Newcastle (twice), Wigan and West Ham.
-
Given- 7.5 - some phenomenal saves, arguably should of taken the cross that best scored off out of the air
Hutton- 6.0 - good overlap, was drifting into centre a bit to much in defence
Collins- 7.5 - I thought he was really good in the air and held his position well. Wish he would play the simple ball a bit more instead of trying to hit Xabi Alonso passes
Dunne- 6.5 - Solid but caught flat-footed by Best; should of put him under more pressure
Warnock- 6.5 - Defensively solid, Obertan didn't get the best of him. Didn't offer much the other way.
Petrov- 6.5 - Had too much work to do, and was outnumbered, did his job
Delph- 5.5 - Did some good things that will be easily forgotten, looked a little to ponderous on receiving the ball on multiple occasions and got caught out by the closing speed of Tiote and Cabaye. Hopefully he learnt that he has a lot less time on the ball then he thinks he does and will be better for it.
Bannan- 6.5 - Obvious quality, could make something happen every time he has the ball, we just don't get it to him enough. He has to learn to get his own ball regardless of his size if he wants to fulfill his potential.
N'Zogbia- 5.0 - Played one brilliant pass, and did some reasonable tracking back but was a passenger for the most part and keeps dribbling into trouble trying to play himself into form. We have to suffer it, he will be too stroppy if dropped.
Gabby- 7.0 - Looked dangerous, was pretty starved for the ball and tried to do to much on his own but got a good goal and is looking like last season was just a blip of poor form/injury
Bent- 5.0 - Disinterested and lacking sharpness, groin niggle bothering him. 2 chances that he snatched at when he could of been more composed. Zero influence on the game.
Ireland- 5.5 - I thought he looked up for it when he came on, but he needed to win his own ball to have any impact and we weren't having any possession in midfield at that point
Albrighton- 6.0- Looked more confident after last week's assist, seemed dangerous, did everything he could and had to decent shots.
Delfouneso- 5.0- Made a solid front post clearance after being ordered by Given to stand there, not enough time for any threat otherwise.
We had 2 passengers and a forgettable performance from a young player who has limited experience at this level. Delph was forgivable, but Bent and N'Zogbia are seasoned pros who should not be playing if they aren't fit and aren't prepared to put a shift in for the team. Bent at least has credit in the bank and what looks like a groin niggle.
I think if the ref handed out the cards he should of to Newcastle then the midfield would of had more chance. Best had his entire leg ahead of Dunne and was well offside for their goal in my opinion. I can't grudge the goal though because Newcastle had so much midfield dominance they deserved to create something.
They are going to be able to make healthy profits on Tiote and Cabaye if they keep playing like that. We need to unearth some gems in midfield to be more competitive.
-
I came away from Villa Park disappointed we didn't play as we can which is a shame the players are good enough but they just need to show it more my motm was Shay Given he made some blinding saves top top goalie and Gabby and Bannan played well I think we need to replace N'Zogbia with Albrighton next game.
-
Given- 9.0 - Saved a point for us with some excellent sves, thought he was unlucky for the goal
Hutton- 6.0 - Patchy at the back , tended to get a bit lost, but reasonable going and point in a couple of decent crosses
Collins- 7.0 - Soild at the back, distribution needs work
Dunne- 7.0 - Solid, even though he should of dealt with Best better for the goal
Warnock- 7.0 - Good performace and showed spirit all afternoon. A No11 bus is quicker though
Petrov- 6.0 - Over run in midfield, as Delph left him exposed. Some signs of a more positive mindset, involed in the build up for the Bent chance
Delph- 4.0 - Very poor, kept getting caught on the ball, amazed he wasn't taken off. I would drop him and give Ireland a shot
Bannan- 6.0 - Lively when given the ball, surprised he was taken off.
N'Zogbia- 5.0 - Generally out of sorts, but one or two good moments, understtod why he was left on, as you never know with this sort player, they can be rubbish all match and then turn a game for you. He needs to improve though
Gabby- 8.0 - Lively sharp and dangerous, enjoying the spot light now Ashley Young has gone
Bent- 5.0 - Looked to be carying an injury, not his usual self. Rest him for the Bolton game
Ireland- 6.0 Lively and some good passes, might be worth a start now
Albrighton- 6.0- Same as Ireland really, we looked better with him on the pitch.
Delfouneso- 5.0- Not on for long enough to make a much impression, good clearance on the post
Overall I felt we were lucky to get a point. The midfield was larely overun and boosed by the Toon. A decent outfit would of muredered us.
Three Japanese lads in fron of me were asleep at one point! Says it all really
Best bit of the day for me was the Villa Special chips, fish, sausage and curry sauce £3.50!
-
What annoyed me was how cheaply we gave away the ball. That is just heartbreaking. When you have the ball, value it and hang onto it. It's an easy game when you have the ball.
This is what concerns me also.We were at home and only had 46% possession.
Watched Swansea on motd,why can we not play football as they do?Our players are surely better
technically than theirs?How many of their players would you put in the Villa team?
We need to stop this win or draw at all costs and start playing some attractive flowing football.
This may bring back the crowds as others have suggested.
-
It really is that simple75,thats the heart breaking thing,there is no hope or optimism anymore,its like you know how the game is going to pan out before a ball is kicked,dour lifeless football with no flair.
-
If it was that simple everybody would do it wouldn't they? We are a slightly above average side at the moment in a league with 3 stella, mega wealthy clubs that will win everything and another 17 below / average / above average sides that can all beat each other on any given day. Sometimes those teams draw.
-
I managed to see this as it was on Canal+ Sport in France. I saw the Holte rise in unison on one occasion, but that was only because the heavens were emptying their almighty bladder upon Villa Park.
We played like the away team, all too often losing possession in their half. A great goal, and a wonderful chance for Bent that could have seen us 2 up. Luckily we had Given on top form as the Barcodes could easily have gone two or three up, Villa having, er..., given them the run of the park.
For their goal, Shay did well to stop the first attempt but had no chance on the second. Warnock showed a bit of passion, N'Zogbia didn't show much. Oh, and I saw somebody in the Lower Trinity "beating the traffic" on 82 minutes (I may be wrong: he was probably legging it because he was scared of dying of boredom).
What else? Shit crowd, and I had to watch the game with a bloke with half the IQ of Benny from Crossroads who spent the game spraying Airwick bog freshener round the living room because some bird he fancied was coming round later that evening. And the c*** only had bottled "shandy" and no beer. Wanker!
-
Someone on here mentioned that it was like we were the away team and that exactly what i said to my mate during the game yesterday. I can't remember the last time an away team down VP had as much possession as Newcastle did.
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough. Zoggy needs dropping for Albrighton, we need to start creating more goalscoring chances and if that means playing a winger who can actually cross, then maybe we should give it a go.
-
Just out of interest what is the record for premiership draws in a season? Could be worth a bet.
Probably held by the Rags in recent times.
Hmmmmmm ?
-
Norwich City (23 from 42) - 1978-79
-
In the Premier League in a 38 game season the record is 17 draws
Newcastle (03/04)
Aston Villa (06/07)
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
-
I said during the game yesterday that we needed Makoun in the middle. We'd have been much better holding on to possession.
-
Cannot see what Delph brings to the table. People were raving about him after the Blackburn game, a game where I thought he was average at best. I really want him to do well but I think it's a case of spending money on potential that perhaps won't be realised. CM is being cruelly exposed at the moment and we have a dilemma - Do we play three in CM as the expense of Gabby upfront or hope that Delph/Jenas come good?
I think the defence look sorted at the moment but I think creativity is a major issue since we look unable to control a game from the centre of the park. We looked like the away team yesterday; just trying to catch the opposition on the break. Must say I'm a little concerned about next week's visit to QPR.
-
If it was that simple everybody would do it wouldn't they? We are a slightly above average side at the moment in a league with 3 stella, mega wealthy clubs that will win everything and another 17 below / average / above average sides that can all beat each other on any given day. Sometimes those teams draw.
It is not the result that I dispute as any point is a reasonable result,the problem I have is the
manner in which we played.If you had not known where it was played you would assume
Newcastle were the home team.They are a very average premier team and who dominated
possession and chances and would have been very disappointed with a point.
For all Houlliers faults and there were many atleast he had a footballing ethos,I cannot see
one at the moment.It is early days yet and I do understand everything needs time to gel.
Not all doom and gloom though as Given is as we knew a top class keeper and Gabi is
looking a player again.
-
Taking Bannan off was bizarre.
He was our best player I thought, but it's clear we have an awful lot of work to do to finish 9th again.
N'Zog - c'mon fella, show us what you can do.
Given, the best GK in a Villa shirt in ages.
UTV
-
Was Petrov substituted due to an injury?
Yup, both Petrov and Bent were forced substitutions. Warnock took a knock in the first half and had to have an injection at half time. Not sure what they gave him but it did the trick.
-
Think the rest of the squad have to feed of Given and Gabby, some of the save's 1 in particular that Given made was almost as good as the legendary Gordon Banks save from the Pele header, don't know how he did it, it was past him going into the net and his whole body contorted and stretched beyond belief, and his friggin wrists must be that strong, best save I've seen in a very long time, he kept us from being on the wrong end of an absolute thrashing.
Gabby, Gabby is proving without question of doubt that a) He's back and b) he is without doubt one of the best front men in the Premiership, fact is, in spite of all the problems we have in getting service to our front men......it ain't stopping Gabby from scoring, reality, so Bent needs to wake himself up a little and he need's to get in there with Gabby and although I was very critical of Zog, the cross he made to Bent, if Bent had of tripped and knocked his head on the ball as he fell, it would have gone in.
Rest of the squad need to look to Given and Gabby, if they can do it then there is no excuse.
-
Dunne was at fault for Best's goal.
-
OK, let's put this into perspective. There were moments of very good football yesterday. Bent's first half missed chance was a beautifully fluent move involving two players who are being consistently slagged off by some posters, N'Zogbia and Petrov. If that had gone in, when we were playing pretty well, I think we would have gone on to win comfortably.
Contrary to what a lot of people are saying, Newcastle looked a lot more accomplished than an 'average' team. Really well organised at the back and with both tactics and ability spot on in the middle of the park and with Cabaye running the show in the second half. Our midfield, by contrast opens up acres of space for opponents to run into and something has to be done. Petrov obviously hurt his ankle on half time and Bent was poor, partly because of poor service but mainly because he needs his groin to heal properly.
We are now at a stage when a win would make our start very promising and a loss would do the opposite. Playing on tv at that cramped little dump that is Loftus Road does not, I feel, bode well.
-
Delph doesn't seem ready to me. He's still plagued by inconsistency, and hasn't really ever stamped himself on a game like a top midfielder to me. He's got the talent, but we need someone more experienced in there. Sadly, I do think we miss Coker a lot right now. Petrov's been good this season but still needs legs and energy next to him. Bannan needs someone solid in midfield who can take the physical pressure off him.
Jenas when fit will have a lot riding on him, because if he performs as he can, he'll make our midfield look a lot better. We'd still lack someone to get their foot in and disrupt the opposition, but at least he's got experience AND stamina.
I'd consider dropping Bent and putting Gabby through the middle. Then again, N'Zogbia should be dropped first. Again, where are the options? :( I'd maybe be tempted to play Ireland and Albrighton on the wide positions, with Ireland more free, and Gab through the centre. See how it works for the balance of the side.
Plus is it me, or do we actually miss Heskeys presence? We don't excactly look much better off creatively.
-
It's understandable that people are screaming for more creativity, especially as one of the big question marks surrounding McLeish is whether he has the nous to inspire the kind of football that will bring enthusiasm back to the club. But these things take time.
The worry for me is that the team does not look like a coherent unit at all. It's nice to see that we have regained the battling quality of the MON era, but this was an aspect of our game that was returning in the latter days of the Houllier/McAllister regime too, so I'm not sure if this is something entirely new or just a continuation of something that started last spring.
McLeish's first priority should be to work on the midfield: try to find some balance, even if it means ditching N'Zogbia and replacing him with Clark (or maybe even Gardner). We were so disjointed yesterday that we even made containing Newcastle at home look like hard work for most part of the match. That needs to be sorted when our easy start to the season is over.
-
The fixture list has been kind to us so far and i'd have hoped for more points on the board to be honest. October looks trickier and then the shit really hits the fan in November and December. Think its probably best to reserve judgement till then. AM will then have the option* to strengthen things depending if we're doing all right or if we're stuck a few points above the relegation area or worse. The problem is obviously in midfield. Delph - i still don't get him and i think its a case that we spent so much on him people don't want to admit he's limited. Petrov is on the wane realistically, just getting past it. It needs sorting - fast.
* (you've got to hope Lerner would cough up some money in January if we're struggling)
-
Delph doesn't seem ready to me. He's still plagued by inconsistency, and hasn't really ever stamped himself on a game like a top midfielder to me. He's got the talent, but we need someone more experienced in there. Sadly, I do think we miss Coker a lot right now. Petrov's been good this season but still needs legs and energy next to him. Bannan needs someone solid in midfield who can take the physical pressure off him.
Jenas when fit will have a lot riding on him, because if he performs as he can, he'll make our midfield look a lot better. We'd still lack someone to get their foot in and disrupt the opposition, but at least he's got experience AND stamina.
I'd consider dropping Bent and putting Gabby through the middle. Then again, N'Zogbia should be dropped first. Again, where are the options? :( I'd maybe be tempted to play Ireland and Albrighton on the wide positions, with Ireland more free, and Gab through the centre. See how it works for the balance of the side.
Plus is it me, or do we actually miss Heskeys presence? We don't excactly look much better off creatively.
I agree, I'm not overly convinced about Delph, its all very well people saying he got and it will come out, well, where is it, how long as he been at the club now, he really should be showing it, its not enough he does it in training, in training his fellow team mates will be sympathetic to his play, ask anybody that has played football, fact is the opposition want to hack him of the park, and he's proving to slow in the take up for me.
If for the reason that Bent is injured I would also rest him for Bolton and leave Gabby up front, Gabby will get in there whatever and do what's required even with minimal service.
However if Bent is fit, he must play, Darren Bent is still one of the best poachers in the Premiership, he carries enormous threat to his game, we can't afford to go out of this and we need him to come good.
-
Delph - i still don't get him and i think its a case that we spent so much on him people don't want to admit he's limited.
I think Delph shows glimpses of his potential, but his injuries have limited his progression: he is still raw talent. Relying on him to run the midfield together with the tiring legs of Petrov isn't the answer, allthough I realise that McLeish doesn't have many options. Plus, he doesn't have the qualities to work as a holding midfielder (which it, at times, looked as he was supposed to be yesterday).
Even though Young and Downing were far more talented, it's not inconceivable that NRC will be the midfielder we'll miss the most this season.
-
The fixture list has been kind to us so far and i'd have hoped for more points on the board to be honest.
I've been happy with the points we've picked up away from home, and the Wolves game was always going to be tough, Derbies normally are, but i was expecting a win yesterday so 9 points would have been a decent start. 7 points is not too bad though. If we can pick up a point next week and beat Wigan before the international break, then hopefully we can push on from there.
As for Delph, there's a really good player there, he was fantastic against Blackburn, he just needs to add consistency to his game and has he gets older, hopefully that will come.
-
Delph - i still don't get him and i think its a case that we spent so much on him people don't want to admit he's limited.
I think Delph shows glimpses of his potential, but his injuries have limited his progression: he is still raw talent. Relying on him to run the midfield together with the tiring legs of Petrov isn't the answer, allthough I realise that McLeish doesn't have many options. Plus, he doesn't have the qualities to work as a holding midfielder (which it, at times, looked as he was supposed to be yesterday).
Even though Young and Downing were far more talented, it's not inconceivable that NRC will be the midfielder we'll miss the most this season.
Aye, lets hope Jenas will shore things up when we get him fit.
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been. What's the point of Makoun? He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.
-
The fixture list has been kind to us so far and i'd have hoped for more points on the board to be honest.
I've been happy with the points we've picked up away from home, and the Wolves game was always going to be tough, Derbies normally are, but i was expecting a win yesterday so 9 points would have been a decent start. 7 points is not too bad though. If we can pick up a point next week and beat Wigan before the international break, then hopefully we can push on from there.
As for Delph, there's a really good player there, he was fantastic against Blackburn, he just needs to add consistency to his game and has he gets older, hopefully that will come.
yep i'd expect us to beat qpr. I know they won yesterday but still we should have enough for them. Wigan, you never know what to expect from them but this could be N'Zogbia's 1 in 10 game. 4 points minimum from those 2 i'd say.
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been. What's the point of Makoun? He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.
Even though he was brought to the club by your nemesis Houllier, Makoun wasn't a complete donkey. Another midfielder who couldn't tackle wasn't perhaps exactly what we needed, but it's difficult to see the footballing reasons why McLeish preferred Delph to Makoun, apart from the vague desire to give youngsters a chance. Makoun closed down opponents quite effectively, was a reliable passer of the ball, had decent positional sense and was more consistent than Delph currently is.
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been. What's the point of Makoun? He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.
And N'Zogbia still managed to put one on a plate for Bent. If that one had been put away the tone of this thread would be very different.
-
What is it with managers of this club and midfielders who can tackle? We've needed one for years. At least earlier on we had NRC who whilst limited and could have done an acceptable job there. Now when our need is urgent we sign an attacking box-to-box midfielder and rely upon the 60 minute man and an out of position and still raw youngster. It's unbelievable.
If we got a solid, quick and energetic presence in there we would be able to play some more footballers and be a much better team to watch. I don't know whether it was McLeish's decision or a product of our financial policy but it is a big miss.
-
Have only seen the extended highlights, watching them after reading the comments on here.
Few points, I think we have to give Mcleish an opportunity to get his own players in before we can start judgeing.If we are still playing like this in 12 months time, then for me we can start complaining about the style and players.
Delph...i think we have to play him, and see what we have.He showed yday his abilities, and hid frailties.For me he is a good footballer, who always tries to be positive, has good acceleration, can get away from players, and is looking for a pass,....but he is a bit weak physically.Needs a stonger player alongside him than Petrov.
Bannan, as above, has a lovely pass, and is always looking to be positive.Not sure you should play him on the right though.
N'Zog...Not at his best, but we need him, as he offers something that nobody else in the squad.
Bent and Gabby.......from the highlights, these 2 gave the ball away more than anybody else.Just a thought but if you want to play a passing game, which is all about keeping possession, and playing flowing football, can you play both Gabby and Bent, neither of whom, despite all their other undoubted strengths, could you call good footballers.
Albrighton and Ireland..........Albrighton is an enigma.A great cross last week for the equalizer last week, this week, 2 good positions, 2 poor decisions.Ireland deserves a run for me.
Hutton...on the highlights looked ok, certainly has a reasonable cross, needs to buck up a bit defensively, but for me better than LYoung.
Shay Given.......great signing.
-
It is still on reflection hard to establish if there was anything exceptional to analyse the performance. I think that it was a pretty standard showing. Not excellent, but not dreadful, which is just about where Villa are at the moment.
The sad thing is, apart from Jenas, this is the squad which is going to take us until the end of the season. We are not waiting for any game changers to come back from injury or suspension, we are just waiting for certain players to 'come good'.
-
The sad thing is, apart from Jenas, this is the squad which is going to take us until the end of the season. We are not waiting for any game changers to come back from injury or suspension, we are just waiting for certain players to 'come good'.
And that is the frightening thing. It's not nearly strong enough, in my opinion.
-
Sunderland 4-0 up.That will put Stoke back in their place
-
Have only seen the extended highlights, watching them after reading the comments on here.
Few points, I think we have to give Mcleish an opportunity to get his own players in before we can start judgeing.If we are still playing like this in 12 months time, then for me we can start complaining about the style and players.
Bent and Gabby.......from the highlights, these 2 gave the ball away more than anybody else.Just a thought but if you want to play a passing game, which is all about keeping possession, and playing flowing football, can you play both Gabby and Bent, neither of whom, despite all their other undoubted strengths, could you call good footballers.
This for me is a very relevant point and one which a lot of people have missed. Yes, Gabby did do a lot of good work but his ball control was very poor yesterday, as was Bents, neither held the ball up which meant that Newcastle were coming straight back at the midfield. They both must learn how to hold it and keep possession or we will spend every game chasing shadows.
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been. What's the point of Makoun? He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.
Not sure if serious or just trolling...
-
I think the biggest problem yesterday, more so than NZogbia and Bent being poor/unfit/injured, was the midfield being too deep.
I'd like to see a box-to-box player like Jenas come in for QPR and Ireland to start with Stan sitting. The balance just isn't quite right as it is.
-
I think the biggest problem yesterday, more so than NZogbia and Bent being poor/unfit/injured, was the midfield being too deep.
I'd like to see a box-to-box player like Jenas come in for QPR and Ireland to start with Stan sitting. The balance just isn't quite right as it is.
Exactly my thoughts.
-
The reason Newcastle kept coming back at us is because we couldn't clear the ball to the middle third, because we don't have a midfield, its noting to do with Bent and Gabby, if people expect Darren Bent and Gabby Agbonlahor to hold up play and contain in the midfield area and get up and score it simply isn't going to happen, unless you are going to engage in a long ball game whereby you are literally playing from defence to the front cutting out any passing game in the middle area's then there is no way Bent and Gabby should be holding up play to that extent.
Another reason why they shouldn't be doing it is because the very essence of a player like Gabby is about pace and getting forward fast, that indeed maybe what Bent is suffering from, he's never played with a player like Gabby, so for them to be in midfield holding up play is a contradiction, once they are forward and around the box they can bring other players in, but not way back in the centre midfield.
The reason Newcastle had total control of the midfield is because every time we cleared the ball it was going to a Newcastle player, they where playing with 5/6 players across the middle, Delph was useless and losing possession all over the shop, N'Zogbia was a luxury we couldn't afford v Newcastle, Bannan didn't have the experience in defending so that leaves Petrov to shore up the area in front of the back 4.......No chance. Then as players like Gabby and N'zogbia started to drop back further and further, Bent then gets less and less supply.
-
Jenas is now the Box to Box midfielder we have been missing FFS
-
I was quite impressed with Warnocks performance yesterday. He did dive in a few times in the second half but he did manage to get the ball at the same time. Considering the guy has a pain killing injection at half time I thought he did very well.
It's starting to look like he is enjoying the post Houllier period as much as Richard Dunne.
-
The reason Newcastle kept coming back at us is because we couldn't clear the ball to the middle third, because we don't have a midfield, its noting to do with Bent and Gabby, if people expect Darren Bent and Gabby Agbonlahor to hold up play and contain in the midfield area and get up and score it simply isn't going to happen, unless you are going to engage in a long ball game whereby you are literally playing from defence to the front cutting out any passing game in the middle area's then there is no way Bent and Gabby should be holding up play to that extent.
Another reason why they shouldn't be doing it is because the very essence of a player like Gabby is about pace and getting forward fast, that indeed maybe what Bent is suffering from, he's never played with a player like Gabby, so for them to be in midfield holding up play is a contradiction, once they are forward and around the box they can bring other players in, but not way back in the centre midfield.
The reason Newcastle had total control of the midfield is because every time we cleared the ball it was going to a Newcastle player, they where playing with 5/6 players across the middle, Delph was useless and losing possession all over the shop, N'Zogbia was a luxury we couldn't afford v Newcastle, Bannan didn't have the experience in defending so that leaves Petrov to shore up the area in front of the back 4.......No chance. Then as players like Gabby and N'zogbia started to drop back further and further, Bent then gets less and less supply.
Spot on sir.
-
The state of our central midfield was my major concern in June, and remains so now. I'm still not entirely sure why we've allowed Reo-Coker, Makoun, Bradley and Hogg all to leave, only bringing one player in. I do think Jenas can improve us, but the options are limited and thin.
I can see us having to use three midfielders more often than not. Having said that, I thought AM was doing that on Saturday until I realised Bannan was wide left.
-
I think we have to give Mcleish an opportunity to get his own players in
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear god no....
Early days but with a squad superior to what he had at Small Heath and given the teams we have played so far, AM is already showing that car crash football is the only way he knows.
Still at least we are bigging up jenas to be some kind of midfield genius and the answer to all of our problems.
Read the same for Delph, bannan, nzogbia
-
My 10 pence worth... Haven't read through the thread so don't know other opinions on the game but I thought it was such a boring game on Saturday.
Newcastle had a lot of possession and we scored against the run of play. Warnock did all the hard work well but the simple stuff like passing he was rubbish at and kept putting the defence back under pressure. Apart from that series of tackles he did in the last 10 mins of the game were he looked very determined.
Our midfield just looked light and lacklustre. We had so little possession for being the home team it was embarrassing. Against a better team we could of got a hammering I though. Bannan was ok. Worked hard but nothing came from it. Ireland when he came on I thought looked lively. Given was amazing! I can't believe I doubted signing him when we were looking for a keeper in the summer. Not just his saving but it was good to see a villa keeper actually distributing the ball well.
The whole villa performance was all very forgettable. Nothing stood out. No sequence of passing and running that got you out your seat and all excited. When you did it was more out of hope than anything else. I'm very worried about our midfield. We do look very light and not full of ideas.
Is Jenas the answer? Well after scouting the earth all summer only to find the best midfielder for us was sitting on the spurs bench all this time, he must be.
-
on McLeish's substitutions
right players on, wrong players off
Bent(not fit as injured) for Ireland and N'Zogbia(very poor) for Albrighton and then we would of matched them in midfield.
and why can't we keep the ball ? we gave it away too much.
UTV
The Doc
-
Is Jenas the answer? Well after scouting the earth all summer only to find the best midfielder for us was sitting on the spurs bench all this time, he must be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now injured
The genius of it all is quite amazing
Anyway all will be well when heskey is back....
Glad to see given doing well, I seem to remember loads of posters on here saying he was past it and we should have signed robinson
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43612.0
-
People are saying N'Zogbia needs time and i agree but by the same token, Makoun put in much better performances in the short time he was here and he apparantley was'nt good enough.
I know, after about 7 appearances some experts decided Makoun hadn't adapted and wasn't PL standard. Despite giving one of the best passing performances I've ever seen from a Villa player at OT. And now almost everyone is whinging about the dearth of talent in centre midfield. Some fans get the team they deserve I guess.
I thought that Makoun was mostly as bad as N"Zogbia's been. What's the point of Makoun? He had no pace, couldn't tackle, and Bannan is a much better player than he is already, and is only going to improve further.
I don't know Risso, perhaps it's the fact that he was capable of passing the ball to someone on the same team 90% of the time, when everyone is moaning that we can't keep posession in midfiled, something that had been a problem for, oh let's see, at least four years? Or maybe it's that he had the vision to spot a good through ball and the ability to play such passes, (like the one he played through to Bent against Newcastle last season which was wrongly called offside). He got sent off for one bad lunge at Blackpool, up to which point he'd been palying pretty well, and a myopic ref gave a blatantly incorrect penalty call against him at Everton, and that's it, he's had his chance, he can't tackle. He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things. Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?
-
He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things. Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?
and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day. Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?
-
There's the rub. Everyone wants to see more possession in midfield, a player who can keep the ball, but when we get someone like that - Makoun - it's decided he doesn't do enough, he needs to be more physical, and he's quickly moved on.
-
First trip to Villa Park this season. Before we even got to the ground neither of us could believe just how muted everybody was on the train to Witton. Everybody sitting down, quiet, the overwhelming feeling that it's become a chore.
Even at the game it felt the same. The Holte Upper was empty at the back, loads of people just sitting watching the game quietly below us. There was an inevitability about the equaliser that didn't help matters. Maybe if Bent had taken his chance in the first half it would have been different.
Good games for Gabby, Given, Petrov and Bannan. Even Ireland looked up for it when he came on. But it all felt too calm, too nice, too much of a chore. On the pitch and off. We got cheap tickets for both the train from London and the match - if we'd paid full whack there wouldn't have been any real incentive to go again. Maybe the £43 restricted view seats at QPR next week will push us over the edge.
In short, meh.
-
I think the change needs to come in the way the midfield 3 operate - 1 needs to sit and 2 attack, rather than 1 attack and 2 sit. Petrov SHOULD be sitting, he reads it well and suits the position, with Bannan and Ireland in front of him and Albrighton and Gabby wide and Bent up top IF fit, with Gabby and NZogbia in those positions if not. we need more creation, Delph is playing ok, but we need to change it around a little.
-
He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things. Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?
and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day. Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?
Yes I spotted that he could pass the ball consistently to other players on our team, something we'd been crying out for for years. You must have missed that. Houllier saw enough in him to sign him for 6 million or whatever it was. And I'm sure Houllier saw his excellent performance against Man Yoo. He only came in January and he was banned for three games after his straight red. I don't know if Houllier or McCallister was picking the team towards the end, but maybe whoever it was went for maximim PL experience to ensure our safety. Or maybe it was part of Houlliers rotation policy. I also seem to recall he was injured for some games, although I could be wrong on that. I'm not convinced McCallister could spot a good footballer if Lionel Messi was sitting on his face. And McLeish is known to favour a very, shall we say, "British" style of football.
-
I think the change needs to come in the way the midfield 3 operate - 1 needs to sit and 2 attack, rather than 1 attack and 2 sit. Petrov SHOULD be sitting, he reads it well and suits the position, with Bannan and Ireland in front of him and Albrighton and Gabby wide and Bent up top IF fit, with Gabby and NZogbia in those positions if not. we need more creation, Delph is playing ok, but we need to change it around a little.
Agreed.
Its clear from the way we shape up without the ball, that we only press it in our final third, with Delph and Stan sitting no more than ten yards in front of Dunne.
It makes us a very hard nut to crack, but leaves us open when we recycle possession cheaply.
I think a central three is the way forward. I've suggested Jenas, Ireland and Stan for QPR, but there are a number of faces who'd fit well. At the moment in a 442 we're not balanced and the worry is we'll become too narrow with a central three, especially as Charlie likes to drift infield.
433 is the only way I think we'll be able to strike a balance between the way we defend deeply and effectively and having something going the other way.
-
We need to go with the formation that we started the season with, just substituting Heskey for a midfield player. That's not a dig at Emile, it's just that we need that third midfielder player to give us more strength in that area and to enable us to exert more influence on games. For me, it's three from Petrov, Delph, Jenas, Bannan and Ireland. A midfield triangle.
Then we have two wider strikers/attacking players and a centre-forward.
-
He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things. Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?
and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day. Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?
Yes I spotted that he could pass the ball consistently to other players on our team, something we'd been crying out for for years. You must have missed that. Houllier saw enough in him to sign him for 6 million or whatever it was. And I'm sure Houllier saw his excellent performance against Man Yoo. He only came in January and he was banned for three games after his straight red. I don't know if Houllier or McCallister was picking the team towards the end, but maybe whoever it was went for maximim PL experience to ensure our safety. Or maybe it was part of Houlliers rotation policy. I also seem to recall he was injured for some games, although I could be wrong on that. I'm not convinced McCallister could spot a good footballer if Lionel Messi was sitting on his face. And McLeish is known to favour a very, shall we say, "British" style of football.
You might have spotted it, and well done for that, because the actual stats don't back up what you think you saw.
Makoun's pass completion last season was 78%. This was less than Petrov's at 85%, NRC's of 84%, Delph's of 83%, and was only marginally better than Bannan's 77% and Clark's 77%. So, based on the fact that he isn't ACTUALLY any better at keeping the ball than any of our other players (and was indeed worse than some), and that he had a lot less to give in other areas than all of them, I think the decision to ship him out was the correct one.
Stats from the Telegraph site by the way if you want to check.
-
Where are these statistics on the Torygraph site?
Sound interesting, but can't find them.
-
Where are these statistics on the Torygraph site?
Sound interesting, but can't find them.
They're hidden from of the prying eyes of passing lefties! ;)
-
The most worrying thing is that if I as a halfwit can see that the formation is wrong what game is AM looking at
-
More stats - tackles attempted - tackles won - %
Makoun: 25 - 9 - 36%
Petrov: 72 - 56 - 78%
NRC: 102 - 72 - 71%
Bannan: 17 - 10 - 59%
Clark: 53 - 36 - 68%
-
The most worrying thing is that if I as a halfwit can see that the formation is wrong what game is AM looking at
Last week half of the site were saying play 4-4-2 and everything will be ok. This week there'll be another favourite theory. The truth is we've had to completely rebuild our midfield and it will take time. We haven't got the balance quite right yet but you don't know how something will work until you try it.
-
The most worrying thing is that if I as a halfwit can see that the formation is wrong what game is AM looking at
Last week half of the site were saying play 4-4-2 and everything will be ok. This week there'll be another favourite theory. The truth is we've had to completely rebuild our midfield and it will take time. We haven't got the balance quite right yet but you don't know how something will work until you try it.
I can accept that Chris but for the past season at least we have looked lightweight when playing a 2 centrally and just sit very deep and invite teams onto us.
Surely a manager can see what is happening during the game and change it?
Some of AM's decisions have baffled me, like playing Heskey as a link man and then saying he would be a good centre half.
Like playing bent when he is clearly carrying a knock
The same as playing bannan on the wing I don't get, plus isn't Nzogbia more suited to the left?
-
He played something like 7 times for us, and you and others managed to see all the bad things but none of the good things. Yes Bannan is good although for me he tries to play the killer ball too often and cedes posession, but so what, why not have both Makoun and Bannan in the squad?
and you in turn, have managed to see something in him in those 7 games that none of Houllier, McAllister or McLeish appear to have seen, which is why none of them played him, despite seeing him training every day. Do you not think that it's possible that they just considered that he wasn't really cut out for the Premier League?
Yes I spotted that he could pass the ball consistently to other players on our team, something we'd been crying out for for years. You must have missed that. Houllier saw enough in him to sign him for 6 million or whatever it was. And I'm sure Houllier saw his excellent performance against Man Yoo. He only came in January and he was banned for three games after his straight red. I don't know if Houllier or McCallister was picking the team towards the end, but maybe whoever it was went for maximim PL experience to ensure our safety. Or maybe it was part of Houlliers rotation policy. I also seem to recall he was injured for some games, although I could be wrong on that. I'm not convinced McCallister could spot a good footballer if Lionel Messi was sitting on his face. And McLeish is known to favour a very, shall we say, "British" style of football.
You might have spotted it, and well done for that, because the actual stats don't back up what you think you saw.
Makoun's pass completion last season was 78%. This was less than Petrov's at 85%, NRC's of 84%, Delph's of 83%, and was only marginally better than Bannan's 77% and Clark's 77%. So, based on the fact that he isn't ACTUALLY any better at keeping the ball than any of our other players (and was indeed worse than some), and that he had a lot less to give in other areas than all of them, I think the decision to ship him out was the correct one.
Stats from the Telegraph site by the way if you want to check.
The actual stats? One set from the daily Telegraph? The day I believe anything in that rag will be a long time coming.
Most stats only give a part of the picture, and I'd mistrust any set of stats that said NRC was one of the best passers at the club. They generally take no account of the number of passes attempted, or the difficulty of the passes attempted. An analysis like this one
http://astonvillacentral.com/2011/02/passing-wheel-analysis-makoun-petrov-vs-murphy-sidwell/
at least tries to look at the those aspects a bit more. In the Fulham game (which I confess I didn;t see but in which apparently Makoun was voted MTOM) according to this observer, he had an 84% sucess rate as opposed to Petrov's 82%. He made 61 successful passes to Petrov's 49. Perhaps more tellingly, 42 ,almost 70%, of Makoun's passes were into what the statto calls zones one or two, in other words forward passes. Less than 50% of Petrov's were. I'd argue Petrov's tendency to pass short, easy and often backwards or sideways leaves a lot less margin for error than the kind and volume of passes Makoun was attempting. Yet Makoun's accuracy was greater in this example. He also completed 85 passes against Man Yoo, which is an exceptional amount. Against one of the best teams in Europe, on their patch, and on his debut in a league that was alien to him. I recall seeing a similar wheel analysis that showed the bulk of those were forward as well. Now he may not have been as good in some of the other games he played but just from those two games, isn't there enough there to say there was a player worth perservering with? A player who might have been able to provide some of the incisive forward through balls we seem so short of, if given a proper chance?
Incidentally based on your stats he is better at keeping the ball than Bannan, who you are arguing is superior to him.
-
The actual stats? One set from the daily Telegraph? The day I believe anything in that rag will be a long time coming.
Most stats only give a part of the picture, and I'd mistrust any set of stats that said NRC was one of the best passers at the club. They generally take no account of the number of passes attempted, or the difficulty of the passes attempted. An analysis like this one
http://astonvillacentral.com/2011/02/passing-wheel-analysis-makoun-petrov-vs-murphy-sidwell/
at least tries to look at the those aspects a bit more. In the Fulham game (which I confess I didn;t see but in which apparently Makoun was voted MTOM) according to this observer, he had an 84% sucess rate as opposed to Petrov's 82%. He made 61 successful passes to Petrov's 49. Perhaps more tellingly, 42 ,almost 70%, of Makoun's passes were into what the statto calls zones one or two, in other words forward passes. Less than 50% of Petrov's were. I'd argue Petrov's tendency to pass short, easy and often backwards or sideways leaves a lot less margin for error than the kind and volume of passes Makoun was attempting. Yet Makoun's accuracy was greater in this example. He also completed 85 passes against Man Yoo, which is an exceptional amount. Against one of the best teams in Europe, on their patch, and on his debut in a league that was alien to him. I recall seeing a similar wheel analysis that showed the bulk of those were forward as well. Now he may not have been as good in some of the other games he played but just from those two games, isn't there enough there to say there was a player worth perservering with? A player who might have been able to provide some of the incisive forward through balls we seem so short of, if given a proper chance?
Incidentally based on your stats he is better at keeping the ball than Bannan, who you are arguing is superior to him.
I'm not sure what gain there is to be had from the Telegraph doctoring Makoun's stats, but if it cheers you up, they agree with the Guardian Chalkboard site.
But anyway, it's clear we're not going to agree about Makoun. What I saw was a limited player, who wasn't very quick, who played lots of short easy passes and who couldn't tackle the skin on a rice pudding. You may have seen a passer of the ball who was better than our other midfielders, but as I say, the stats don't back that up, and neither the man who bought him, nor his replacement really fancied him, and I can't say that I'm upset to see the back of him. I don't think he was as good as Petrov, Delph, NRC or Bannan, and seeing as we still have three of those, I can see why he was let go.
You're maybe right that he was a worth a place in the squad, but in the new Lerner era, anybody not playing that we can get a few quid for is always going to be out of the door fairly sharpish.
-
After watching the weekend games on Sky , it is obvious that the progressive teams have a midfield that is manouverable, athletic, good on the ball, energetic.Modric, Ramires, Parker, Matta all stood out, all have plenty of energy.We have Petrov, Delph, Herd, Ireland, Jenas, Bannan who can play central midfield.
Saturday did nothing to change my mind that Petrov should no longer be a 1st team starter, and that if any of the other above named cannot fill the gap, then it has to be the priority in Jan/Next summer.Unless this happens , for me we will never get the best out of Bent, N'Zog, Gabby.
-
I have to be honest and say Saturdays game was like stepping back in time to some of MON's dire home draws. 4-4-2, losing posession cheaply, no strength in central midfield, getting pushed further and further back, making the oppositions midfield 3 look like Brazil 70. It really is just so predictable. We haven't got good enough players to play a midfield two, we need to play a three in whatever formation works but Barry Bannan needs to be the fulcrum in my opinion not stuck on the wing where he has minimal influence. Also Bent is quite patently not fit and should be rested particularly as Gabby is on fire at the moment.
-
I think McLeish is trying to teach Delph more discipline and the defensive side of his game so he can be a better all-round midfielder. I'm sure once Fabian is stronger and more consistent he will be unleashed box-to-box, which will coincide with when Petrov's legs start to drop off from his job atm.
-
What I saw was a limited player, who wasn't very quick, who played lots of short easy passes and who couldn't tackle the skin on a rice pudding.
Sounds like a perfect description of Petrov to me. Really don't get what people see in him.
You may have seen a passer of the ball who was better than our other midfielders, but as I say, the stats don't back that up.
Your selection of stats maybe, and I'm not saying they're doctored, just perhaps not put together as as rigourously as they might have been, and as I've said they don't tell the whole story. The stats I found offer some evidence that in at least two games Makoun played, his passing stats were excellent and better than Petrov's.
You're maybe right that he was a worth a place in the squad, but in the new Lerner era, anybody not playing that we can get a few quid for is always going to be out of the door fairly sharpish.
As he's only gone on loan we're not exactly getting even a few quid for him.
You're right though I guess we'll never agree.
-
I haven't read all the thread so sorry if I'm repeating points already made...
For me AM's main mistake was playing 442, but to be fair a lot of fans wanted to see it as well. Our central midfield is easily dominated by stronger players as we saw at goodison, so reducing the numbers in the middle and losing heskey meant we were never going to be able to control the game.
he's brought Jenas in, who I assume he thinks can help this situation. I'm not convinced he can, but of course I'll give him a chance and really hope he improves things.
Other than that I think it was the same story as the rest of the season, defence OK, Given good, Gabby good but the other attacking players not contributing. It seems bad but if the Zog and Bent had put in even half decent performances we would have put newcastle under a lot more pressure and it could have been a different game.
In synopsis, I'm still very worried about our inability to compete in midfield, and Mcleish has to sort this. But he does have good players not performing an the moment, so assuming he can turn that around I'm not getting too depressed yet.