How do we change the 'cultural' make up of football crowds?

[VillaBobby]

For me, the key is really a two fold approach:-
1.  Give them a reason to want go
2.  Remove any barriers to stop  them going

Villabobby's argument is the former, while things like community programmes are the latter.

Your average Asian non-Villa fan will not start attending matches because we change catering, but then he also might not go to see a winning and entertaining team if his particular needs are not catered for. 

Without a successful side then we cannot attract staunch Villa fans, even with cheap ticket deals, free pies, subsidised buses etc, then why would a none-Aston Villa fan be persuaded to attend Villa Park?

[olaftab]

Halal food should be avoided in the ground at all costs, as it should be in the country as a whole.  There should be no place for this disgusting, cruel and barbaric practice.

No it's not and halal slaughter results in more hygienic meat being eaten. There is no kill that is nice. Has anyone asked the animal if being stunned before being killed is preferable?

[144 Hard Boiled Eggs]

What was the average attendance the season we won the league in '80-'81?

[olaftab]

Why this obsession with catering? I don't think anyone's going to go to a football match because of the refreshments on offer!

Exactly. Never bothered me and  it won't bother the locals either as there is plenty available in the vicinity of VP.

[Concrete John]

For me, the key is really a two fold approach:-
1.  Give them a reason to want go
2.  Remove any barriers to stop  them going

Villabobby's argument is the former, while things like community programmes are the latter.

Your average Asian non-Villa fan will not start attending matches because we change catering, but then he also might not go to see a winning and entertaining team if his particular needs are not catered for. 

Without a successful side then we cannot attract staunch Villa fans, even with cheap ticket deals, free pies, subsidised buses etc, then why would a none-Aston Villa fan be persuaded to attend Villa Park?

Did you actually read my post or just decide to wade in with the same argument again?

Getting a better will attract back missing fans.  Getting a better side and doing other things alongside will get new fans going.

[VillaBobby]

For me, the key is really a two fold approach:-
1.  Give them a reason to want go
2.  Remove any barriers to stop  them going

Villabobby's argument is the former, while things like community programmes are the latter.

Your average Asian non-Villa fan will not start attending matches because we change catering, but then he also might not go to see a winning and entertaining team if his particular needs are not catered for. 

Without a successful side then we cannot attract staunch Villa fans, even with cheap ticket deals, free pies, subsidised buses etc, then why would a none-Aston Villa fan be persuaded to attend Villa Park?

Did you actually read my post or just decide to wade in with the same argument again?

Getting a better will attract back missing fans.  Getting a better side and doing other things alongside will get new fans going.

Getting a better what will attract missing fans?

[dave.woodhall]

Admit it Dave, you wont feel any less of a man, I was right, the only way to swell crowds is by having a competitive team.

Statistics back this up.

There is no statistical fact to back up your claims that local initiative's work.

What happens if I don't admit something which is patently wrong - do you threaten to stamp your feet?

What part is wrong Dave?

The words. Saying "I'm correct" doesn't make what you say right, when it clearly isn't. 

2012/13 season average is    : 33,383 (Paul Lambert)
2011/12 season average was: 33,873 (Alex McLeish)
2010/11 season average was: 37,193 (Gerard Houllier)
2009/10 season average was: 38,573 (Martin O`Neill)
2008/09 season average was: 39,811 (Martin O`Neill)
2007/08 season average was: 40,029 (Martin O`Neill)
2006/07 season average was: 36,214 (David O`Leary)

I see a trend here linked to performance.

So why did we get less in 2009-10 than two years earlier, given that we finished in exactly the same place and had the two Wembley appearances that many cite as evidence of O'Neill's success? Why were our average attendances in 1993-94 and 1995-96, the last times we won a trophy, less than they are now? Why were gates higher in 1994-95 when we were fighting relegation than two years earlier, when we almost won the league?

As CJ says above, there are many ways to increase attendances. Given that we aren't likely to be challenging for honours for some years to come, it would be the height of stupidity not to look at others. 

[VillaBobby]

What was the average attendance the season we won the league in '80-'81?

Thats not relevant as if you read the previous pages they were different people (working class) than today (unsubstantiated middle class) according to other more esteemed posters on here.

[Dave]

2012/13 season average is    : 33,383 (Paul Lambert)
2011/12 season average was: 33,873 (Alex McLeish)
2010/11 season average was: 37,193 (Gerard Houllier)
2009/10 season average was: 38,573 (Martin O`Neill)
2008/09 season average was: 39,811 (Martin O`Neill)
2007/08 season average was: 40,029 (Martin O`Neill)
2006/07 season average was: 36,214 (David O`Leary)

I see a trend here linked to performance.

I can also see a trend here linked to economic climate.

There are a number of factors which will affect how many people go to watch a football match. The quality of the side(s) they are watching is certainly one of the most important, but to just stamp your feet and shout that it's the only thing that matters is a bit silly.

[VillaBobby]

Admit it Dave, you wont feel any less of a man, I was right, the only way to swell crowds is by having a competitive team.

Statistics back this up.

There is no statistical fact to back up your claims that local initiative's work.

What happens if I don't admit something which is patently wrong - do you threaten to stamp your feet?

What part is wrong Dave?

The words. Saying "I'm correct" doesn't make what you say right, when it clearly isn't. 

2012/13 season average is    : 33,383 (Paul Lambert)
2011/12 season average was: 33,873 (Alex McLeish)
2010/11 season average was: 37,193 (Gerard Houllier)
2009/10 season average was: 38,573 (Martin O`Neill)
2008/09 season average was: 39,811 (Martin O`Neill)
2007/08 season average was: 40,029 (Martin O`Neill)
2006/07 season average was: 36,214 (David O`Leary)

I see a trend here linked to performance.

So why did we get less in 2009-10 than two years earlier, given that we finished in exactly the same place and had the two Wembley appearances that many cite as evidence of O'Neill's success? Why were our average attendances in 1993-94 and 1995-96, the last times we won a trophy, less than they are now? Why were gates higher in 1994-95 when we were fighting relegation than two years earlier, when we almost won the league?

As CJ says above, there are many ways to increase attendances. Given that we aren't likely to be challenging for honours for some years to come, it would be the height of stupidity not to look at others. 

A fall of over 5,000 in the average over 3 years is evidence that the continual failings of the team on the pitch result in lower crowds.

I can compare this to other teams who have prospered ala, Everton have increased crowds year on year by 3,000 & West Brom who have seen an increased by 1,000 on last year.

If you wish to take each of the other seasons you mention in isolation & compare them to the other teams in the league then you will gain a clearer picture of whether our crowds were up or down against the average.

Fact remains & I have supported with data, success on the pitch improves attendances.

I have NOT disputed initiatives are a good thing, just that they should be open to all & not just a select.

[VillaBobby]

2012/13 season average is    : 33,383 (Paul Lambert)
2011/12 season average was: 33,873 (Alex McLeish)
2010/11 season average was: 37,193 (Gerard Houllier)
2009/10 season average was: 38,573 (Martin O`Neill)
2008/09 season average was: 39,811 (Martin O`Neill)
2007/08 season average was: 40,029 (Martin O`Neill)
2006/07 season average was: 36,214 (David O`Leary)

I see a trend here linked to performance.

I can also see a trend here linked to economic climate.

There are a number of factors which will affect how many people go to watch a football match. The quality of the side(s) they are watching is certainly one of the most important, but to just stamp your feet and shout that it's the only thing that matters is a bit silly.

When have I stamped my feet?

I agree the economic climate is a key driver why people will or will not attend football matches. I agree the club have tried initiatives to help with ticket pricing also. Long may that continue!!!

[andrew08]

To me it's a cost v product issue rather than a cultural issue. Although it should be a given that the stadium should be inclusive to everyone who wants to come.

If the tickets were handed out free we'd sell out every week regardless of how good the team was. If the dream had come true and we were playing Barcelona next week in a CL quarter final with two titles behind us already, a 50k capacity Villa Park would be full every week with the cheapest seats starting at £40 even against, say, Fulham.

So as it stands right now I think we do well to get the gates we're getting.

[dave.woodhall]

I have NOT disputed initiatives are a good thing, just that they should be open to all & not just a select.

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Make your mind up. And yet again, nobody has said that these initiatives aren't just "for a select (sic)".

Fact remains & I have supported with data, success on the pitch improves attendances.

No you haven't, and has been shown time and again, no it necessarily doesn't.

[PeterWithesShin]

I'd just like to point out that in 06/07 Pubey was in charge, not Mr Fickle. So much for correct date.

[E I Adio]

The weight of evidence does come down firmly against the practice of Halal slaughter. This, although admittedly a selected paragraph from Wiki, is for me, enough to ban this nonsensical archaic practice.

"In 2003, the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), an independent advisory group, concluded that the way halal and kosher meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals. FAWC argued that cattle required up to two minutes to bleed to death when such means are employed. The Chairperson of FAWC at the time, Judy MacArthur Clark, added, "this is a major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn't suffer is quite ridiculous."

What are the world's religions afraid of? I'm quite content for my fellow humans to gain comfort from their religion, but not at the expense of routinely causing totally unnecessary pain and suffering to millions of animals.