woeful attendance

[Villanation]

Could be just down to the fact that people are broke...........................

[MarkM]

As a former seller of H&V I can make an relative informed comment on the Villa Fan base.

I used to get far more comments along the lines of...

"is it the programme?"
"it's been a while since I have been, where's the Holte End again?"

When we played the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea

And zero comments as above when we played Bolton, Portsmouth or Blackburn

I would say we have always had fans that will attend VP dependant on who we are playing not simply just to see the Villa no matter who the opposition is.

To use a business analogy, when you put a product 'on offer' you will see an increase in sales, once the offer is over you can generally assume that you will loose about 75% of the increase in sales. I would say that Villa have been 'on offer' since Randy took over and the offer has just ended. Should the attendance levels continue to reduce then we are seeing a return to pre offer levels.

I have been attending Villa since the mid 80's and I can remember the piss poor attendances back then that make Saturday's 30,000 seem like a massive crowd.

[Chris Smith]

Where has Dave made that connection, that's purely your invention.

So why then are the fans getting all the stick?  I've not seen Dave, or you for that matter, offer any criticism of those responsible for the situation the club finds itself in, merely sneering criticism of those fans who for whatever reason have decided to stop going, as if its entirely their fault.  To use Dave's own expression: when in doubt, blame the fans. 

Rather than using stay-away fans as some sort of reason for the club's malaise, you perhaps ought to see them for what they are, i.e. a symptom of the club's malaise.

It's not a criticism of fans who "for whatever reason have decided to stop going". It was a specific response to the KFC analogy that we're merely customers and withdrawing your support because we're not spending as much. 

The point I tried to make was the playing squad is being sold off piece by piece to balance the books. I therefore don`t think it’s a wise move to ask the fans to pay even more to watch it.
As someone else posted the club needs the part time/fair weather/glory hunter fan (delete as appropriate) more than they need the club.

Fair enough, I think I understand better now.

If we're talking about cost then you won't get any argument from me, it's far too expensive.

[cdbearsfan]

Trouble is if we drop our prices we still fall behind our competitors.

I think the Board's plan was that we would pack out Villa Park week after week, and extend it to 50,000+ and still pack it out. Maybe Randy thought this would be pretty easy as even the shite teams in the NFL (eg Cleveland Browns) tend to get full houses every game.

If you look at some comments on old General Threads, you'll see he mentions gates fairly often. In the early days, when asked about the North Stand expansion, he says it will happen as soon as we get capacity crowds every week. Later on he mentions crowds more often and is fairly critical of the gate after the Man City game (first game after we signed Bent). I think the plan was that Randy would bankroll us for the first few seasons. Then, with Champions League football, increased sponsorship and 50,000 people packing into Villa Park, we would begin to pay our own way. Unfortunately, it hasn't quite worked out like that.

Those who criticise the Board for lack of investment then can't be arsed to invest £30 in buying a match ticket come across as fairly hyprocritical in my book I'm afraid. Fair enough if you are unemployed or concerned about your job... or you live far from Villa Park, but there are plenty of moaning, comfortably-off Brummie Villans that won't set foot in the stadium. Until we play Man U or Chelsea... then they remember the way to Aston.

[dave.woodhall]

As a former seller of H&V I can make an relative informed comment on the Villa Fan base.

I used to get far more comments along the lines of...

"is it the programme?"
"it's been a while since I have been, where's the Holte End again?"

When we played the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea

And zero comments as above when we played Bolton, Portsmouth or Blackburn

I would say we have always had fans that will attend VP dependant on who we are playing not simply just to see the Villa no matter who the opposition is.

To use a business analogy, when you put a product 'on offer' you will see an increase in sales, once the offer is over you can generally assume that you will loose about 75% of the increase in sales. I would say that Villa have been 'on offer' since Randy took over and the offer has just ended. Should the attendance levels continue to reduce then we are seeing a return to pre offer levels.

I have been attending Villa since the mid 80's and I can remember the piss poor attendances back then that make Saturday's 30,000 seem like a massive crowd.

There's a good couple of analogies there. One thing I've also noticed over the past couple of years is the lack of daytripper coaches. We used to always have a few coaches of obviously not Villa supporters (the Sky 4 shirts gave it away) turning up but they're not there anymore.

[CBAV06]

I think the Board's plan was that we would pack out Villa Park week after week, and extend it to 50,000+ and still pack it out. Maybe Randy thought this would be pretty easy as even the shite teams in the NFL (eg Cleveland Browns) tend to get full houses every game.

Actually the Browns used to defy the trend and pack the house regardless. They used to be considered one of the best fanbases in the league. If you want a good comparison go with the Bengals down in Cincy. When the team is good, the fans show up. Most times they are too 'busy doing other things'. Now, when the team sucks, you can travel thru town and hear the team advertising who they are playing against to draw fans. The Bengals have some loyal fans, but most are often teased for jumping on the bandwagon when the team is winning.

[Chris Smith]

I think CDV makes a good point about the way attendances didn't keep growing. There was a lot of talk at the time of the takeover about how we were the PL club most primed for growth and all it took wax the right stewardship to unlock that latent potential.

Unfortunately, it didn't happen and I'm sure we all have our ideas as to why but if their business plan was based on achieving that increase then it would help explain why they're now restructuring.

[dave.woodhall]

I think the Board's plan was that we would pack out Villa Park week after week, and extend it to 50,000+ and still pack it out. Maybe Randy thought this would be pretty easy as even the shite teams in the NFL (eg Cleveland Browns) tend to get full houses every game.

Actually the Browns used to defy the trend and pack the house regardless. They used to be considered one of the best fanbases in the league. If you want a good comparison go with the Bengals down in Cincy. When the team is good, the fans show up. Most times they are too 'busy doing other things'. Now, when the team sucks, you can travel thru town and hear the team advertising who they are playing against to draw fans. The Bengals have some loyal fans, but most are often teased for jumping on the bandwagon when the team is winning.

I also think they didn't understand the difference between an American Football game and one of ours. Over there  it's about 24 teams in a population of 250 million and eight home games a season (tell me if I'm wrong) so fanbases are massive and every game is an event.   

[CBAV06]

I think the Board's plan was that we would pack out Villa Park week after week, and extend it to 50,000+ and still pack it out. Maybe Randy thought this would be pretty easy as even the shite teams in the NFL (eg Cleveland Browns) tend to get full houses every game.

Actually the Browns used to defy the trend and pack the house regardless. They used to be considered one of the best fanbases in the league. If you want a good comparison go with the Bengals down in Cincy. When the team is good, the fans show up. Most times they are too 'busy doing other things'. Now, when the team sucks, you can travel thru town and hear the team advertising who they are playing against to draw fans. The Bengals have some loyal fans, but most are often teased for jumping on the bandwagon when the team is winning.

I also think they didn't understand the difference between an American Football game and one of ours. Over there  it's about 24 teams in a population of 250 million and eight home games a season (tell me if I'm wrong) so fanbases are massive and every game is an event.   

There is a large difference in home games played, it is alot easier to pay for 8+ tickets for a season. However I do not think you have to worry about the PSL in England, which in a nutshell is something you buy that allows you to buy season tickets. In order to purchase season tickets you purchase a PSL, which gives you the right to buy tickets to that seat. *cringe

In Cleveland growing up we averaged around 88,000 tickets a home game...which was capacity. Win or lose, we were full. Now things have changed in modern times...

[MarkM]

I have spent some time in Green Bay and can confirm that each game is a massive event. The population of Green Bay doubles over a game weekend.

The club is at the heart of Green Bay, when they needed to re build the ground they needed funds so they asked Green Bay if they would pay for it via a tax. The population voted yes and the club built a fantastic stadium that has bars, clubs, restaurants that can be used by the population 24/7.

There is a large waiting list for season tickets, it is a great example of club, fans and city working together to better everyone.

[CBAV06]

Yes, Green Bay is a franchise I am jealous of. Owned by the community, probably can never be moved.

[London Villan]

The paying fans in the normal seats are is one issue, a barometer of what the fanbase think of the club/the football/chance of success etc... the bigger problem Villa have is filling the corporate seats, where the real money is generated.

When Learner took over we were the only Premiership Club for 70 miles, which makes a box, corporate tickets etc much easier to sell, last season there were 5 midlands teams, this will have more of an effect on match day revenue that losing 8000 pay on the day fans...

[Fuse]

If we were a consistently successful side ala Arsenal, Chelsea we would get the gates. Trouble is that we never will challenge like they o

[bertlambshank]

The Browns cheapest seats are £25 for an 8 game season.
How much would we pay for an 8 game season.

[ChrissyPrice]

Apart from the financial side for fans the whole predictability of the bloated Premier League thing is just too much.
We're not going to make Europe and (hopefully) won't be relegated. We know our place and it's pretty dull. When the likes of us, Spurs and maybe even Arsenal are just feeder clubs then what is the point at thirty five quid a ticket?

Things will only start to change when fans of the other clubs in the 5th-16th bracket stop going and every club has empty seats, making it a less than Super Sunday for Sky to mercilessly hype. Or the top 4 sod off (and please do) to a tedious Euro league.