woeful attendance

[dave.woodhall]

Of course I see why people are staying away; there are many factors and some are reasons while some are excuses. The owner's wealth or lack of it is irrelevant and the only people talking 'better fan than you' seem to be the ones who are accusing others of it.

Oh please.  You and Chris have been at it all afternoon.  In any case, people don't need "an excuse" not to go.  If they don't want to, they don't want to.

Really? Perhaps you can tell me where. All I've seen is a load of self-righteousness invariably followed by 'you're saying you're a better fan then me'.

Indeed, people don't have to go to the match if they don't want. And others have the right to comment on the subject.

[Chris Smith]

Of course I see why people are staying away; there are many factors and some are reasons while some are excuses. The owner's wealth or lack of it is irrelevant and the only people talking 'better fan than you' seem to be the ones who are accusing others of it.

Oh please.  You and Chris have been at it all afternoon.  In any case, people don't need "an excuse" not to go.  If they don't want to, they don't want to.

It's become a dull cliche on here, that as soon as anyone tries to explain their attitude to supporting the club they're accused of the better fan nonsense. It's a convenient way to avoid discussing the point by turning it into a debate about motives rather than the issue.

Absolutely, if you don't want to go that's your choice, obviously. However, if you decide to post about why you don't go and then widen that out to explain why others don't then it's only natural that others who have a different outlook will respond.

I'll say it again; I don't regard myself as a better fan but I feel that as a supporter I have to take the bad times with the good. Note the use of "I" several times in that sentence.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I've just done a bit of digging on attendances for all this weekends fixtures and corresponding fixtures last season. The list of factors possibly affecting attendance have been well documented numerous times in this thread, so are most of these factors consistent with other teams or just down at Villa Park? Heres the attendance figures:

Fixture - Att. 2011 - (Att. 2010) [+/-]
Aston Villa vs Wolves - 30,776 (38,965) [-8000]
Blackburn vs Everton - 22,826 (25,869) [-3000]
Liverpool vs Bolton - 44,725 (35,400) [+9000]
Newcastle vs Fulham - 42,684 (44,686) [-2000]
Tottenham vs Man City - 36,150 (35,928) [-]   
West Brom vs Stoke - 22,909 (24,164) [-1000]         
Man Utd vs Arsenal - 75,448 (75,227) [-]   

Quite clearly the largest attendance drop this weekend was at Villa Park with over 8000 lower than last season (over 20% drop). Even if you factor in the early kick-off and third home game, this is far excessive compared to the other 3 games that had a reduced attendance given all the other consistent factors.

In my opinion, the performance of the club off the pitch this summer in terms of appointing AM and transfer activity are clearly having a negative affect on attendance as seen so far this season and it cannot be ignored or denied with any kind of positive spin. Obviously further evidence with forthcoming fixtures will prove this to be true or false, but I think it would be a safe bet to say that we will see similar or lower attendances for Newcastle, Wigan and Baggies.

I'd say Saturday's attendance was nothing out of the ordinary.

Sorry, not read all the thread but go back to 2009,  you'll see the attendance for the bank holiday weekend was 32,917. I'm guessing Fulham brought as many fans as Wolves. This was, not that you'll need reminding, under the management of MON, a top six finish and qualification to the Europa League, after our highest spending summer window ever, a 3-1 win at Anfield and not a lunchtime kick off or live on TV.

[hilts_coolerking]

Really? Perhaps you can tell me where. All I've seen is a load of self-righteousness invariably followed by 'you're saying you're a better fan then me'.

Indeed, people don't have to go to the match if they don't want. And others have the right to comment on them.

How about this one for starters? 

"I cant understand why there are some on here who criticise everything the club does, can't be bothered to go to the match on the back of one disappointing summer (but they're not part-timers or gloryhunters, oh no), throw abuse at Randy, then get upset when their commitment is questioned. "  And then contrasting it with your own level of commitment.

If you don't believe those you are describing to be an inferior supporter in some way, then why is this debate even happening?  If there's nothing wrong in behaving that way, why do you feel the need as you say "to comment on them"?

[dave.woodhall]

May as well mention it because I don't think anyone else has yet. Our gates always go up after Christmas.

[hilts_coolerking]

I'll say it again; I don't regard myself as a better fan but I feel that as a supporter I have to take the bad times with the good. Note the use of "I" several times in that sentence.

Yet those who don't take the bad times with the good are by your measure "gloryhunters", right?  And you don't regard yourself as a better fan?  Come off it.

[dave.woodhall]

Really? Perhaps you can tell me where. All I've seen is a load of self-righteousness invariably followed by 'you're saying you're a better fan then me'.

Indeed, people don't have to go to the match if they don't want. And others have the right to comment on them.

How about this one for starters? 

"I cant understand why there are some on here who criticise everything the club does, can't be bothered to go to the match on the back of one disappointing summer (but they're not part-timers or gloryhunters, oh no), throw abuse at Randy, then get upset when their commitment is questioned. "  And then contrasting it with your own level of commitment.

If you don't believe those you are describing to be an inferior supporter in some way, then why is this debate even happening?  If there's nothing wrong in behaving that way, why do you feel the need as you say "to comment on them"?

I can't understand why anyone would behave like that. I also can't understand why such behaviour should be defended and why you've spent all afternoon in a strop because it's been pointed out.

[PeterWithesShin]

I'll say it again; I don't regard myself as a better fan but I feel that as a supporter I have to take the bad times with the good. Note the use of "I" several times in that sentence.

Yet those who don't take the bad times with the good are by your measure "gloryhunters", right?  And you don't regard yourself as a better fan?  Come off it.

What term would you use for a fan that only goes during the good times and stops going during the bad times?
What is your definition of a gloryhunter?

[Dave Cooper please]

nobody likes a part time supporter!

But we need part-time supporters. We only have a 'hard-core' support of about 30,000, we will never fill the ground unless we attract part-time supporters.

[hilts_coolerking]

I can't understand why anyone would behave like that. I also can't understand why such behaviour should be defended and why you've spent all afternoon in a strop because it's been pointed out.

"Such behaviour"??  We're talking about someone doing something else instead of going to a game.  Get over yourself Dave.  And the reason I've been posting is precisely because you've been giving it the 'better fan than you' sanctimony all afternoon.

[Chris Smith]

I'll say it again; I don't regard myself as a better fan but I feel that as a supporter I have to take the bad times with the good. Note the use of "I" several times in that sentence.

Yet those who don't take the bad times with the good are by your measure "gloryhunters", right?  And you don't regard yourself as a better fan?  Come off it.

It's a widely used term. What is your understanding of it?

[CBAV06]

I'll say it again; I don't regard myself as a better fan but I feel that as a supporter I have to take the bad times with the good. Note the use of "I" several times in that sentence.

Yet those who don't take the bad times with the good are by your measure "gloryhunters", right?  And you don't regard yourself as a better fan?  Come off it.

Sorry hilts, I don't think Chris Smith coined the term. I already stated that I hate the 'real fan' discussion but I believe someone that follows a team only in the good times is pretty much accepted as the definition of a gloryhunter. Not attaching the term to anyone, of course.

[dave.woodhall]

I can't understand why anyone would behave like that. I also can't understand why such behaviour should be defended and why you've spent all afternoon in a strop because it's been pointed out.

"Such behaviour"??  We're talking about someone doing something else instead of going to a game.  Get over yourself Dave.  And the reason I've been posting is precisely because you've been giving it the 'better fan than you' sanctimony all afternoon.

I think your own personal ironymeter just blew up. Have a look back at your posts and see how many of them have been accusing me & Chris of insulting you. And while you're at it, check who uses the words 'better fan than you' most often.

[hilts_coolerking]

What term would you use for a fan that only goes during the good times and stops going during the bad times?
What is your definition of a gloryhunter?

A gloryhunter is someone who chooses to support a given team because they routinely win trophies.  I don't think any Villa supporter could be described a gloryhunter.

Someone who has chosen to stop going this season I can totally understand and I don't think they've done anything wrong at all.

[hilts_coolerking]

I think your own personal ironymeter just blew up. Have a look back at your posts and see how many of them have been accusing me & Chris of insulting you. And while you're at it, check who uses the words 'better fan than you' most often.

Yes that would be none, Dave.  Perhaps I'll also check on who has been slagging off other fans for having the temerity to be less committed than you.