woeful attendance

[taylorsworkrate]

Can I just say, having kind of started all this, that I think those who go to every ame actually are better fans than those who don't. It's just the simple application of logic as far as I can see.

My work will not allow me Saturdays off, regardless of how much i've pleaded. 

Does that mean I have to quit my job to become a "better fan"?

[kippaxvilla2]

PWS - It looks as though finally Villa fans have had some balls rather than continuing to put up with the same dross and bullshit year in year out.

The fact is, the ticket prices went up, the economy is poor and despite this, I am convinced that if the board of the club had given the fans the same hope and vision that the fans want, those fans would back them with support.  You add the lack of vision, hope and radical introduction of conservatism, including one of the most dreadful managerial appointments then you can see why the attendance is so low.  The fact is the board were warned about this in the summer by their customers and they did not take heed of it.  It is that simple.  These are so called businessmen, they are completely amateurish it seems to me.  I have asked this question before but can anyone tell me precisely what Paul Faulkners qualifications are to run a £100m turnover business?

[ozzjim]

I don't for one second class myself as "better than you fan" but to me supporting my club means doing so even when the going gets tough..

But that's at odds with what you're saying.

To you being a fan means going all the time, regardless of how things are going.

To others, it doesn't mean going all the time whatever the reason, and whatever the reasons are, they're going to be easier to overcome when the football is good and things are looking promising.

To disparage the people in the latter category as gloryhunters sounds exactly like "better fan than you" to me.

There are lots of reasons the crowd was poor today, and none of them were the fault of the supporters - far more appropriate to look at the people who've run us so shambolically for a year now.

What I mean is you go as often as you can, be it a ST or 1 or 3 games a year if distance/money is an issue. A few years ago I could only afford about 5 games, and most of those were cheap deal games or cheap cup games. So I understand the money angle. But surely the fact it's such a large and sudden drop there's more to it than just the cost for example?

I'm probably as pissed off and disappointed as anyone with how things are going right now, but as I said, i've seen worse over the years. And as I also mentioned, if we only went because we played attractive football or looked like winning something, we'd have been playing in a near empty VP for the majority of my time.

Of course it is about more than cost - look at the shite summer we've had. Anyone with any semblance of a clue could have predicted rubbish attendances.

One question - you say money and distance are acceptable reasons to not go. is that it? What about the other things we have to handle in our lives?

It should not matter the reason for not going if it is justified to that individual. Part of my thinking this season was based on expecting a little one in January, and knowing that the idea of any complications which we have had before with these things would leave the expensive season ticket unused for a period of time.

And those that go are better fans argument. Is this an on the spot, over a lifetime, etc. I would wager there are some fans that went in division 3 that don't go now for whatever reason and could be seen as better fans as they were there when attendances were rock bottom. It is a really difficult argument to cover off the angles.

[Sexual Ealing]

Can I just say, having kind of started all this, that I think those who go to every ame actually are better fans than those who don't. It's just the simple application of logic as far as I can see.

My work will not allow me Saturdays off, regardless of how much i've pleaded. 

Does that mean I have to quit my job to become a "better fan"?

Oh look, read at my earlier posts in this thread - I'm hardly on the offensive.

However, the answer is yes. That's not your fault, nobody's doubting your love of the Villa, but some things are more important.

[Gazza1982]

Problem today is simple. A 3 o clock kick off would have added 5k to the gate. Also,the value for money.Two decent adult tickets with petrol,parking,pint,pie,peanuts,programme and anything else beginning with P will cost £100 easy. And thats for 90 mins.
Now what could you do with £100 entertainment wise?
2 tickets to the cinema...£25....decent meal somewhere nice....£45.......evening down pub £30. Thats a whole days quality entertainment for the same money.

For fucks sake, let the under 16's in for a tenner, generate some grass roots support and charge £20 for a decent ticket for the rest. We would have had 40k+ today in front of an enthusiastic crowd. Its greed thats killing the game,not the fans. I would love to go, I'm simply priced out,so I'll pay £12 to Villa Streams for 3 months of live football. Its a no-brainer for me and I remember watching the likes of Rioch,Lockhead and Aitken....Im claret and blue through and through but until things change for the better with the fans in mind,I'll only be going again if I win the lottery.

[ozzjim]

PWS - It looks as though finally Villa fans have had some balls rather than continuing to put up with the same dross and bullshit year in year out.

The fact is, the ticket prices went up, the economy is poor and despite this, I am convinced that if the board of the club had given the fans the same hope and vision that the fans want, those fans would back them with support.  You add the lack of vision, hope and radical introduction of conservatism, including one of the most dreadful managerial appointments then you can see why the attendance is so low.  The fact is the board were warned about this in the summer by their customers and they did not take heed of it.  It is that simple.  These are so called businessmen, they are completely amateurish it seems to me.  I have asked this question before but can anyone tell me precisely what Paul Faulkners qualifications are to run a £100m turnover business?

I agree with all, but the bold bit I posted about on another thread. If the club said this is not working, and we are going down a different route, with a strong wage structure and a 3 season plan to get to that wage level, with a priority on scouting 19-23 year olds with good reputations that can come in, be nurtured and sold on to continue a sustainable model for buying etc, the fans would buy into it. It has to be something different than plodding along.

[The Laughing Policeman]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression in my previous post . I wasn't trying to come across as a "better fan than you".
I fully understand that people have other priorities above The Villa, family should always come first.
What i was trying to get at are the people who I know that for instance were quite happy to sit in the pub and watch todays game on TV. And when I turned up after the game they were quite happy to tell me what was wrong. Not just with todays game but  with AVFC in general. Now if they can afford to sit in a pub and criticize The Villa why can't they be arsed to travel 5 miles and give the club their money?
Three of them come on here, they're the ones I'm calling fickle.

[kippaxvilla2]

PWS - It looks as though finally Villa fans have had some balls rather than continuing to put up with the same dross and bullshit year in year out.

The fact is, the ticket prices went up, the economy is poor and despite this, I am convinced that if the board of the club had given the fans the same hope and vision that the fans want, those fans would back them with support.  You add the lack of vision, hope and radical introduction of conservatism, including one of the most dreadful managerial appointments then you can see why the attendance is so low.  The fact is the board were warned about this in the summer by their customers and they did not take heed of it.  It is that simple.  These are so called businessmen, they are completely amateurish it seems to me.  I have asked this question before but can anyone tell me precisely what Paul Faulkners qualifications are to run a £100m turnover business?

I agree with all, but the bold bit I posted about on another thread. If the club said this is not working, and we are going down a different route, with a strong wage structure and a 3 season plan to get to that wage level, with a priority on scouting 19-23 year olds with good reputations that can come in, be nurtured and sold on to continue a sustainable model for buying etc, the fans would buy into it. It has to be something different than plodding along.

Yep - agree entirely.  This is also the worst part of the media silence policy of the current ownership.

[The Laughing Policeman]

Those delusional idiots on villatalk think mcleish has nothing to do with it.

With a board name like that you have the temerity to call yourself a Villa Fan?
No matter who the manager is we support him and the team.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

[itbrvilla]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression in my previous post . I wasn't trying to come across as a "better fan than you".
I fully understand that people have other priorities above The Villa, family should always come first.
What i was trying to get at are the people who I know that for instance were quite happy to sit in the pub and watch todays game on TV. And when I turned up after the game they were quite happy to tell me what was wrong. Not just with todays game but  with AVFC in general. Now if they can afford to sit in a pub and criticize The Villa why can't they be arsed to travel 5 miles and give the club their money?
Three of them come on here, they're the ones I'm calling fickle.

Perhaps they font enjoy the matchday experience and feel they don't get value for money?

[kippaxvilla2]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression in my previous post . I wasn't trying to come across as a "better fan than you".
I fully understand that people have other priorities above The Villa, family should always come first.
What i was trying to get at are the people who I know that for instance were quite happy to sit in the pub and watch todays game on TV. And when I turned up after the game they were quite happy to tell me what was wrong. Not just with todays game but  with AVFC in general. Now if they can afford to sit in a pub and criticize The Villa why can't they be arsed to travel 5 miles and give the club their money?
Three of them come on here, they're the ones I'm calling fickle.

Not really, coz sitting in a pub you can walk to and buying say 3 pints at the cost of £10 is still £20 less, less cost of petrol/travel to watch a load of shite in person, especially considering all those you are paying to watch only appear to give a shit how big their 'cans' are.

[PeterWithesShin]

I don't for one second class myself as "better than you fan" but to me supporting my club means doing so even when the going gets tough..

But that's at odds with what you're saying.

To you being a fan means going all the time, regardless of how things are going.

To others, it doesn't mean going all the time whatever the reason, and whatever the reasons are, they're going to be easier to overcome when the football is good and things are looking promising.

To disparage the people in the latter category as gloryhunters sounds exactly like "better fan than you" to me.

There are lots of reasons the crowd was poor today, and none of them were the fault of the supporters - far more appropriate to look at the people who've run us so shambolically for a year now.

What I mean is you go as often as you can, be it a ST or 1 or 3 games a year if distance/money is an issue. A few years ago I could only afford about 5 games, and most of those were cheap deal games or cheap cup games. So I understand the money angle. But surely the fact it's such a large and sudden drop there's more to it than just the cost for example?

I'm probably as pissed off and disappointed as anyone with how things are going right now, but as I said, i've seen worse over the years. And as I also mentioned, if we only went because we played attractive football or looked like winning something, we'd have been playing in a near empty VP for the majority of my time.

Of course it is about more than cost - look at the shite summer we've had. Anyone with any semblance of a clue could have predicted rubbish attendances.

One question - you say money and distance are acceptable reasons to not go. is that it? What about the other things we have to handle in our lives?

Of course there are other reasons that are acceptable. Which is why I said "as often as you can" rather than just, as often as you can afford. I did mean to end that sentence in my previous post with "for example" but got sidetracked!
As an example I worked in retail for years so couldn't get to many Saturday games. So I went to the games I could get to. There are a multitude of reasons why a lot of people can't make games on a regular basis, it's called life.

[WeDontWantMcelish]

Those delusional idiots on villatalk think mcleish has nothing to do with it.

With a board name like that you have the temerity to call yourself a Villa Fan?
No matter who the manager is we support him and the team.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am standing up for what I believe in and what is best for Villa, as with the other 10k who now stay away. If you want to be disrespected and fleeced by some rich men in suits that's up to you. But that makes you the fool, not me.

[taylorsworkrate]

Can I just say, having kind of started all this, that I think those who go to every ame actually are better fans than those who don't. It's just the simple application of logic as far as I can see.

My work will not allow me Saturdays off, regardless of how much i've pleaded. 

Does that mean I have to quit my job to become a "better fan"?

Oh look, read at my earlier posts in this thread - I'm hardly on the offensive.

However, the answer is yes. That's not your fault, nobody's doubting your love of the Villa, but some things are more important.

I sort of think I know where you might be coming from.

Did you mean that the fans who go all the time pump more money into the club so therefore are the better/more important fans?

If so I can see your side of the argument, though I do disagree with it. 

[PeterWithesShin]

I don't for one second class myself as "better than you fan" but to me supporting my club means doing so even when the going gets tough..

But that's at odds with what you're saying.

To you being a fan means going all the time, regardless of how things are going.

To others, it doesn't mean going all the time whatever the reason, and whatever the reasons are, they're going to be easier to overcome when the football is good and things are looking promising.

To disparage the people in the latter category as gloryhunters sounds exactly like "better fan than you" to me.

There are lots of reasons the crowd was poor today, and none of them were the fault of the supporters - far more appropriate to look at the people who've run us so shambolically for a year now.

What I mean is you go as often as you can, be it a ST or 1 or 3 games a year if distance/money is an issue. A few years ago I could only afford about 5 games, and most of those were cheap deal games or cheap cup games. So I understand the money angle. But surely the fact it's such a large and sudden drop there's more to it than just the cost for example?

I'm probably as pissed off and disappointed as anyone with how things are going right now, but as I said, i've seen worse over the years. And as I also mentioned, if we only went because we played attractive football or looked like winning something, we'd have been playing in a near empty VP for the majority of my time.

Of course it is about more than cost - look at the shite summer we've had. Anyone with any semblance of a clue could have predicted rubbish attendances.

One question - you say money and distance are acceptable reasons to not go. is that it? What about the other things we have to handle in our lives?

It should not matter the reason for not going if it is justified to that individual. Part of my thinking this season was based on expecting a little one in January, and knowing that the idea of any complications which we have had before with these things would leave the expensive season ticket unused for a period of time.

And those that go are better fans argument. Is this an on the spot, over a lifetime, etc. I would wager there are some fans that went in division 3 that don't go now for whatever reason and could be seen as better fans as they were there when attendances were rock bottom. It is a really difficult argument to cover off the angles.

And that's a perfectly legitimate reason ozzjim, i'm certainly not questioning it, or the reasons that Gazza1982 gave, football is too expensive and has priced far too many people out of it. I didn't think I would be going much this season because of cost, but managed to sort something out that means I can go at present.

My glory hunter comment is based at those that would go if it looked rosy down VP, but because now things look shit, choose not to go. The important part being they choose not to go because we're looking shit, not because of other circumstances that life throws up.
For some reason people are taking it as being aimed every Villa fan not at every game, despite me making it plain it's for the reasons I just gave.