VILLAINS or VILLANS

[nigel]

ki

Having a bit of an arguement regarding our nickname.
Could anyone tell me if it's VILLAINS or VILLANS?
I've been told it's the VILLANS and it's a 'play on words' thing.
I'm sure it's the VILLAINS though.
If by some chance it is villans, why?
Thanks

Is it argument or arguement?

Har Har 

[nigel]

Thanks for all replies.
It appears that either can be used then.

[Daholteend]

Sorry Chaps and Chapesses, your all wrong. I was listening  to Big Eck today and I distinctly heard him call the club Aztun Vulla, and we are now the Vullans!     

[Jonathan Collett]

Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.

[Mac]

Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...

How do you know they were shouting "Come on you villans" as opposed to "Come on you villains"?  Surely they both sound the same?

Just did a massive LOL. People are now looking at me funny.  Well more funny than ususal.

[Mac]

I heard "Come on You Lions" sung millions of times.  Never heard "Come on you Villa(i)ns".

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...

How do you know they were shouting "Come on you villans" as opposed to "Come on you villains"?  Surely they both sound the same?

The 'I' is silent as in Tilton.

[Mac]

Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.

Can someone please check John Lerwill's excellent tome for references.

[ktvillan]

I think it is the english language at work.   Historically the phrase was heroes and villains but usage has changed it to villans so either is correct.   Th great strength of english is that anything goes.    It is a great big string bag of a language you can still keep stuffing stuff in.   A typical example is the word invitation which has in recent time absorbed its own verb invite.

I bloody hope not Brian.   I don't buy into this change by usage theory otherwise we will all have to put up with that bldy txt spk bollix in the future, and crap like "must of" and "should of".  For me it's not evolution it's just  laziness and ignorance.  And I can't say I've ever seen "Villans" used generally , only in  connection with our club.  For me it's always been Villans for Villa fans, probably from the days of the Villa Villan.  But ultimately it doesn't really matter.

[Jonathan Collett]

Can someone please check John Lerwill's excellent tome for references.

I haven't got the book but he once wrote in "the other place":

Ian Berry has just e-mailed me to contribute some clarification as to the term "Villan".

There was once a very imaginitive sports reporter by the name of Jack Urry (whose name has cropped up in another history thread) who - way back ca. 1880 - concocted the term "Villan" (as opposed to "Villain") and it has stuck ever since.

Jack Urry (who followed the Villa as a reporter and supporter from ca 1879) later wrote many articles for the Villa News and Record between 1906 and 1926. He died in 1928.

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

I think it is the english language at work.   Historically the phrase was heroes and villains but usage has changed it to villans so either is correct.   Th great strength of english is that anything goes.    It is a great big string bag of a language you can still keep stuffing stuff in.   A typical example is the word invitation which has in recent time absorbed its own verb invite.

I bloody hope not Brian.   I don't buy into this change by usage theory otherwise we will all have to put up with that bldy txt spk bollix in the future, and crap like "must of" and "should of".  For me it's not evolution it's just  laziness and ignorance.  And I can't say I've ever seen "Villans" used generally , only in  connection with our club.  For me it's always been Villans for Villa fans, probably from the days of the Villa Villan.  But ultimately it doesn't really matter.

lol

[Chris Smith]

Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.

I'd never heard Lions as a nickname until the Holte started using it in the "Come on You ..." chant so we might have oursleves to blame for that one.

[Jonathan Collett]

I'd never heard Lions as a nickname until the Holte started using it in the "Come on You ..." chant so we might have oursleves to blame for that one.

I think the Club set up a "lions club" in the 1960s (the building that later became the souvenir shop) and referred to some supporters clubs as lions clubs but as i say it was that era when all respect for tradition and heritage went out the window.

Whenever my dad heard "come on you Lions" sung in the Holte he would shake his head and say are Millwall playing? In any case "come on you" is really a cockney chant (as in "cam on you irons" cam on you spurs" etc) so that was another non authentic aspect.

[Gerrin]

Interesting read, some explanation.. http://www.footynicknames.co.uk/Aston_Villa_-_The_Villains

I've always gone with Villains, and it makes sense if it dates back such a long time.

[nigel]

Did a bit of research myself and found this on footynicknames.co.uk
There is also a little bit of confusion about their other main nickname, some people spell it as Villans and others as Villains, again though no prizes for guessing how that nickname came about !!

The one above is from a series of football cigarette cards issued by Sweetule products in 1959, the text on the back of which read;
"The Villains of Div 1. This nickname we presume is derived from the clubs own name. Founded in 1874, this club was one of the original sixteen members of Division 1, and has achieved many outstanding successes since then."

The second card is from a series named AFC Nicknames which was originally released in 1933 by Ogdens, they were subsequently reprinted in 1997 by Imperial Publishing and the text on the back reads;
"Aston Villa, one of the most famous and successful clubs since the introduction of League football, started from Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel and it was in this way that they came by their rather curious name. Known as The Villa they are always depicted as a picturesque Villain, an appropriate representation of one of the most formidable teams in the game. They have, however, always cultivated a classical style which is the envy of their rivals and which has won them all the honours in the game. They share with Blackburn the record of having won the Cup 6 times."

There was  Painini card, date 1988, which had it as Villans. So that could have derived from an Italian spelling.

It would appear that history is on the side of Villains.