0% Villa: Lennon attacked during Hearts match

[astonvillan]

I found it interesting that, at the last match at Ibrox (the one after all the trouble between players and managers) Rangers - as a Club - handed out 40 thousand Union Flags to the home support. Whats all that about then?

preparation for the wedding of kate & wills?  /facetious

[Concrete John]

Not every Celtic fan is a IRA supporting Republican. I'm sure most Celtic fans are not particularly bothered by the flag of the state they live in being waved.

For those that are vexed by it, good.

You don't need to be an IRA supporter to want an independent Ireland.

[Ads]

It's quite possible to be a nationalist without supporting the IRA you know. Some remarkable double standards being shown here.

Whatever, add it to the mix. The point was that the idea the Union flag causes such immense offence is toss, because it suggests Celtic fans are on the margins of society, when they're not.

[Ads]

Not every Celtic fan is a IRA supporting Republican. I'm sure most Celtic fans are not particularly bothered by the flag of the state they live in being waved.

For those that are vexed by it, good.

You don't need to be an IRA supporter to want an independent Ireland.

And you don't need to be Irish to support Celtic.

[adrenachrome]

From an article in The Scotsman:

Scotland's Shame is alive and kicking

It is patently flawed to revert to lazy soundbites about the problems of the Old Firm and the west coast when this year we have witnessed the hatred and intolerance transcend these much-maligned borders.

In addition to a politician and a QC - albeit both with Celtic FC connections - receiving letter bombs, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, Scotland's most senior Roman Catholic clergyman and an Irish cultural-political organisation have also received bullets and a letter bomb in the post.

This is, of course, in addition to Celtic players Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt - both Northern Irish Catholics - receiving bullets in the post. The choice of targets here is revealing and tells us a lot about the essence of ethno-religious prejudice in Scotland.

A cursory analysis of the targets reveals the common denominators to be one or some of the following combination; high profile Roman Catholic in Scotland, Celtic FC connection, Irish. This hits at the heart of the issue.

Forget the nonsensical half excuses, peddled by those who should know better, that Lennon "brings it on himself", that "he's a fiery character" or that he "has to shoulder part of the blame".

Apart from a naive determination and excitable approach to his new profession - shared by many other determined coaches, yet never precipitating such reactions - Lennon has done nothing wrong except to refuse to behave like the Irish Catholics of previous generations in Scotland and "keep the heid doon".

[Concrete John]

Not every Celtic fan is a IRA supporting Republican. I'm sure most Celtic fans are not particularly bothered by the flag of the state they live in being waved.

For those that are vexed by it, good.

You don't need to be an IRA supporter to want an independent Ireland.

And you don't need to be Irish to support Celtic.

So what's your point?  That unless you're an Irish Republican it shouldn't bother you?  I'm sure non-Irish Celtic fans love their nearest rival giving out flags to their fans that are purposefully intended to wind up a large section of their fellow Celtic fans.

If Lennon shouldn't act as he does, an opinion I agree with, then acts like this should also be condemned.  Or is his behaviour acceptable as all Rangers fans are not NI Unionists?     

[Villa'Zawg]

From an article in The Scotsman:

Scotland's Shame is alive and kicking

It is patently flawed to revert to lazy soundbites about the problems of the Old Firm and the west coast when this year we have witnessed the hatred and intolerance transcend these much-maligned borders.

In addition to a politician and a QC - albeit both with Celtic FC connections - receiving letter bombs, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, Scotland's most senior Roman Catholic clergyman and an Irish cultural-political organisation have also received bullets and a letter bomb in the post.

This is, of course, in addition to Celtic players Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt - both Northern Irish Catholics - receiving bullets in the post. The choice of targets here is revealing and tells us a lot about the essence of ethno-religious prejudice in Scotland.

A cursory analysis of the targets reveals the common denominators to be one or some of the following combination; high profile Roman Catholic in Scotland, Celtic FC connection, Irish. This hits at the heart of the issue.

Forget the nonsensical half excuses, peddled by those who should know better, that Lennon "brings it on himself", that "he's a fiery character" or that he "has to shoulder part of the blame".

Apart from a naive determination and excitable approach to his new profession - shared by many other determined coaches, yet never precipitating such reactions - Lennon has done nothing wrong except to refuse to behave like the Irish Catholics of previous generations in Scotland and "keep the heid doon".

Good article. Who knew that hooliganism was all to do with gains in distinction and social desirability behaviours based on besting an "Other".

[TaxDodger]

Not every Celtic fan is a IRA supporting Republican. I'm sure most Celtic fans are not particularly bothered by the flag of the state they live in being waved.

For those that are vexed by it, good.

You don't need to be an IRA supporter to want an independent Ireland.

And you don't need to be Irish to support Celtic.

So what's your point?  That unless you're an Irish Republican it shouldn't bother you?  I'm sure non-Irish Celtic fans love their nearest rival giving out flags to their fans that are purposefully intended to wind up a large section of their fellow Celtic fans.

If Lennon shouldn't act as he does, an opinion I agree with, then acts like this should also be condemned.  Or is his behaviour acceptable as all Rangers fans are not NI Unionists?     

Why should waving British flags at a football match in Britain be condemed? There's a difference between celebrating Britishness and being anti-Catholic.

[nodge]

I found it interesting that, at the last match at Ibrox (the one after all the trouble between players and managers) Rangers - as a Club - handed out 40 thousand Union Flags to the home support. Whats all that about then?

They are a British club, playing in Britain???

Last time I looked Villa were a British club playing in Britain.  I don't remember them being handed out at VP, even at European games.

[Concrete John]

Why should waving British flags at a football match in Britain be condemed? There's a difference between celebrating Britishness and being anti-Catholic.

Totally agree there is.

But in the context of Rangers handing out 40,000 flags to their supporters before a game with Celtic, what do you honestly think the intent was?  Having a 'Britain Day' or trying to wind up the Celtic fans?

[DB]

I found it interesting that, at the last match at Ibrox (the one after all the trouble between players and managers) Rangers - as a Club - handed out 40 thousand Union Flags to the home support. Whats all that about then?

They are a British club, playing in Britain???

Last time I looked Villa were a British club playing in Britain.  I don't remember them being handed out at VP, even at European games.

See my later post on page 7 (bottom).

[selly park trinity]

Not every Celtic fan is a IRA supporting Republican. I'm sure most Celtic fans are not particularly bothered by the flag of the state they live in being waved.

For those that are vexed by it, good.

You don't need to be an IRA supporter to want an independent Ireland.

And you don't need to be Irish to support Celtic.

So what's your point?  That unless you're an Irish Republican it shouldn't bother you?  I'm sure non-Irish Celtic fans love their nearest rival giving out flags to their fans that are purposefully intended to wind up a large section of their fellow Celtic fans.

If Lennon shouldn't act as he does, an opinion I agree with, then acts like this should also be condemned.  Or is his behaviour acceptable as all Rangers fans are not NI Unionists?     

Why should waving British flags at a football match in Britain be condemed? There's a difference between celebrating Britishness and being anti-Catholic.

I see what you're getting at but celebrating Britishness/Unionism at a Rangers v Celtic match would not be wise and if they want to do this then they could do it against any other team same applies if Celtic handed out Tricolours celebrating the Easter Rising or the IRA campaign in Northern Ireland.  For christ sake they have been using the crisis in Palestine/Isreal as a way of division over the years.  Look into the history of sectarianism in Ireland and Scotland and gauge your opinion on that.  You will have to wade through a lot of bullshit mind!  It's all shite but I'm afraid it's human nature to a lot of people.  Education is the way to solve it but takes an awful long time to sink in and there are some very bitter and entrenched people surrounding both clubs.

[TaxDodger]

Why should waving British flags at a football match in Britain be condemed? There's a difference between celebrating Britishness and being anti-Catholic.

Totally agree there is.

But in the context of Rangers handing out 40,000 flags to their supporters before a game with Celtic, what do you honestly think the intent was?  Having a 'Britain Day' or trying to wind up the Celtic fans?

Well, whether they were trying to wind Celtic fans up or not, can Celtic fans really complain about a team waving the flag of the country that both clubs play in? I understand their complaints when Rangers fans start singing songs about William of Orange and the like, but I don't think there's anything wrong with displaying the Union flag.

[selly park trinity]

A saltire yes no problem, flag of the country.  The Union Jack is the flag of the Union and is a very provocative symbol to irish nationalists and I suppose scottish nationalists too.

[Concrete John]

Why should waving British flags at a football match in Britain be condemed? There's a difference between celebrating Britishness and being anti-Catholic.

Totally agree there is.

But in the context of Rangers handing out 40,000 flags to their supporters before a game with Celtic, what do you honestly think the intent was?  Having a 'Britain Day' or trying to wind up the Celtic fans?

Well, whether they were trying to wind Celtic fans up or not, can Celtic fans really complain about a team waving the flag of the country that both clubs play in? I understand their complaints when Rangers fans start singing songs about William of Orange and the like, but I don't think there's anything wrong with displaying the Union flag.

I suppose it's as others have said, there's a reason they only do it against Celtic.

Anyway, my point was that actions like this should be carefully considered.  For instance, there's nothing wrong with Catholic Arthur Boruc blessing himself before a game.  But when he does it only infront on the Rangers fans, it's obviously more of a wind up than a celebration of his faith.