Ciaran Clark - now gone

[Mister E]

Clark can potentially be good, but he has to show an ability to learn from his mistakes. That's the only way he'll ever succeed.

agreed. He has the quality but now needs the concentration and determination to succeed at the highest level. Bringing in another experienced CB in the close season would really help him.

[Louzie0]

Clark can potentially be good, but he has to show an ability to learn from his mistakes. That's the only way he'll ever succeed.

agreed. He has the quality but now needs the concentration and determination to succeed at the highest level. Bringing in another experienced CB in the close season would really help him.

His ability to learn has been highlighted recently. I recall a MOTD when Hansen picked up on the difficulty he was having in the first half when he was marking the forward too closely. AH then showed a clip from the second half, commenting that this had been pointed out to him and the lad had changed his play to reflect this, with positive results.  He made the comment that Clark was an intelligent player who would continue to improve.

[Dante Lavelli]

I think Clark missed a season on loan somewhere during later stages of MON, Houlier and/or TSM's reign.
Baker and Clark have actually played a similar number of games as Baker benefitted from spells on loan.

Ultimately I think Clark will be a lot better player at the start of next season than he was for this.  If he'd done (more) of his learning outside of the club I think we'd all be a lot more enthusiastic about his abilities. 

[villan from luton]

I think Clark was trying to do other peoples jobs during our terrible run, actually think there is a proper player in there

[KevinGage]

Clark has been in and around the first team since 2009 now, let's not forget.

And during all that time he hasn't looked secure at the back, or capable of making the position his own.

Baker is still raw, but over the course of the last two seasons (mostly this season, as it's the first one he's been allowed any type of run in his favoured position) he has looked the better prospect. 

He stands up to the oppositions front man, rarely gets bullied off the ball, is solid in the tackle and heads the ball well. He can get pulled out of position, but you expect that from a young CB still learning the ropes.  And his distributiion isn't great.  But then Dunne and Collins are 30+ and the less said about their passing ability the better.

With a bit of work, he can be competent at that, short passes at least.  You don't really need much more from a CB (though it's clearly an advantage if they have more to offer in that dept).

Clark is more of a concern, because the primary things you look for in a centre half, strength, tackling ariel ability and concentration, he lacks. Or only shows on a semi consistent basis.   There is a decent footballer there somewhere, but not at CB, I feel. 

[villan from luton]

I think he can be a good player there kevingage and rate him higher than Baker at this stage, but respect your opinion

[OCD]

Baker has always been the better defender of the two. However, during Baker's run in the team we have also found the right balance to the midfield which has afforded the defence more protection. During most of Clark's run of games, we were changing formations, changing personnel, we didn't have Sylla for most of those games etc. He'll benefit so much more from having had these issues resolved, the team settling down and some signings that strengthen areas where we're weak.

[Percy McCarthy]

Baker has always been the better defender of the two. However, during Baker's run in the team we have also found the right balance to the midfield which has afforded the defence more protection. During most of Clark's run of games, we were changing formations, changing personnel, we didn't have Sylla for most of those games etc. He'll benefit so much more from having had these issues resolved, the team settling down and some signings that strengthen areas where we're weak.

Good point OCD.

[villan from luton]

Sylla and a fully fit and rejuvenated Delph have made a massive difference, totally agree OCD. I think both Baker and Clark have lots to learn but they both give their all and suppose we cant complain at that

[neo_Villan]

Clark has been in and around the first team since 2009 now, let's not forget.

And during all that time he hasn't looked secure at the back, or capable of making the position his own.

Baker is still raw, but over the course of the last two seasons (mostly this season, as it's the first one he's been allowed any type of run in his favoured position) he has looked the better prospect. 

He stands up to the oppositions front man, rarely gets bullied off the ball, is solid in the tackle and heads the ball well. He can get pulled out of position, but you expect that from a young CB still learning the ropes.  And his distributiion isn't great.  But then Dunne and Collins are 30+ and the less said about their passing ability the better.

With a bit of work, he can be competent at that, short passes at least.  You don't really need much more from a CB (though it's clearly an advantage if they have more to offer in that dept).

Clark is more of a concern, because the primary things you look for in a centre half, strength, tackling ariel ability and concentration, he lacks. Or only shows on a semi consistent basis.   There is a decent footballer there somewhere, but not at CB, I feel.

Excellent post. As I said before, there is a reason TSM preferred Baker over Clark when Dunne got injured.

[OzVilla]

Ciaran Clark is far better suited to be a defensive midfield player imo.

However, I still think he can grow into a first choice CB for many years for us, although next season will be a bit of a make or break for him.

[tomd2103]

Clark has been in and around the first team since 2009 now, let's not forget.

And during all that time he hasn't looked secure at the back, or capable of making the position his own.

Baker is still raw, but over the course of the last two seasons (mostly this season, as it's the first one he's been allowed any type of run in his favoured position) he has looked the better prospect. 

He stands up to the oppositions front man, rarely gets bullied off the ball, is solid in the tackle and heads the ball well. He can get pulled out of position, but you expect that from a young CB still learning the ropes.  And his distributiion isn't great.  But then Dunne and Collins are 30+ and the less said about their passing ability the better.

With a bit of work, he can be competent at that, short passes at least.  You don't really need much more from a CB (though it's clearly an advantage if they have more to offer in that dept).

Clark is more of a concern, because the primary things you look for in a centre half, strength, tackling ariel ability and concentration, he lacks. Or only shows on a semi consistent basis.   There is a decent footballer there somewhere, but not at CB, I feel.

I would agree with that KG.  I think Baker has moved ahead of Clark in the pecking order, but still think we need a better option than those two partnering Vlaar next season. 

[villan from luton]

I agree we need another experienced CB, but I think both have been decent this season and admire the way Clark tried to take charge of a shit defence earlier in the season, he seems a lad who is happy to take on responsibility.

[tomd2103]

Ciaran Clark is far better suited to be a defensive midfield player imo.

However, I still think he can grow into a first choice CB for many years for us, although next season will be a bit of a make or break for him.

There were many saying exactly the same thing last summer.

[neo_Villan]

I agree we need another experienced CB, but I think both have been decent this season and admire the way Clark tried to take charge of a shit defence earlier in the season, he seems a lad who is happy to take on responsibility.

When you are made captain that is the general idea.