The future of Houllier and McAllister?

[VillaZogmariner]

We're actually only 4 points off 8th.

We've heard that a lot this season.  "Only x amounts of points off xth [uninspiring] place".  We've never, ever looked like being comfortably top half, and more worrying is that with two games left, we're still only three points above the trapdoor.  It would take a ridiculous combination of results for us to go down, but the fact that it's still possible at this stage shows what an utter disaster Houllier has been.  the only good thing to come out of this season is that Lerner obviously decided that we needed Darren Bent to keep us up, so broke the bank to keep us up.  Hopefully a new, much better manager will reap the benefits of this.  If we'd been comfortably top 10 in January I really don't think we'd have gone for Bent.

I can see what you are saying Risso, and I agree that with 2 games to go there should be no mathematical chance that we could go down. But look at the bigger picture for a second - our form between the signing of Bent and Houllier being rushed into hospital was the 7th best in the league. Throw in with that the freak of a match that was Bolton away too and it would've been even better. Houllier has made mistakes this season, there is no getting away from that fact. However he has also done some good things too and the team was starting to show a bit of promise.

The point I am trying to make though is to look at the other factors he has had to contend with this season - injuries, unfit players, players who do not give a flying fuck about the club. In those circumstances we are exactly where we deserve to be - around mid table. If results go our way over the next week we could finish top half. Something I'm sure all of us would've accepted at the start of the season.

[Greg N'Ash]

If MON had stayed and agreed to cut his spending, i reckon we'd have finished about 8th to 11th. He would have kept the tactics as they were so simpletons like Dunne could understand them. The better defence would have made up for the lack of goals, we'd have been able to name the starting XI each week as per usual. This summer, a lot of the non-playing reserves would have been written off and a few more solid over-paid pro's from the premiership brought in along with one or two 21 caret duffers, ready for another charge for the Europa places, the limit his style of football is capable of.

Great.

[Chris Smith]

The problems of this season all started last summer with MoN - there is no way of denying that.

They started when we decided not to sign any players, they were made ten times worse when he walked out.

However, since then it has been about a football manager doing what he is paid to do. If he can only succeed when things are easy then he's not earning his money.

[VillaZogmariner]

I do find it amusing that some of the people who were last season saying that MON under performed given the players he'd been able to sign are now making excuses for the complete fuck up this time with largely the same group with an £18m striker added and Milner gone.

It hasn't been good enough.

My main argument with MoN was his failure to learn from his mistakes (every season we fucked up from March onwards) and his lack of a clinical goalscorer (we relied too heavily on a 1 good game in 4 Carew and Gabby). Had we signed Darren Bent instead of Heskey, for example, I think we'd have got into the Champions League that season.

My argument about the squad between this season and last is the fact that for the first half of the season we had a weaker squad than that of last season, added to the fact that the likes of Tottenham and Man City had improved their squad. With the addition of Bent and Makoun to the squad I think we are maybe on around par with the squad last season. Which still is weaker than the teams we have been competing with over the past couple of years. (Petrov getting slower, unfit Dunne etc).

[VillaZogmariner]

The problems of this season all started last summer with MoN - there is no way of denying that.

They started when we decided not to sign any players, they were made ten times worse when he walked out.

However, since then it has been about a football manager doing what he is paid to do. If he can only succeed when things are easy then he's not earning his money.

Do you think MoN would've handled the injury crisis any better than Houllier did?

[VinnieChase84]

Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)

[Brisbane Villan]

I have just about had enough of this crazy notion that Houllier is responsible for our current position.  We have a squad of highly paid proffesional footballers.    We can play good attactive football under Houllier, better than the dross MON coached.
How many tackes has Houllier missed ?   How many 10 - 15 yard passes has he crashed into the opposition?   How many corners has he belted into the front defender or lobbed over the back of the 18 yard box.?  How may free kicks has he smashed into row F?

Non ladies.    and you can bet your bottom dollar they arnt coached to do any of this, yet we see it every week.

Blame the players, not the coaching staff.  The sooner they are put on incentive payment/wages the better.

On another brief note, is it me, or can Petrov not kick a ball properly.  He always seems to flick it from under his body with the side of his foot?

[VillaZogmariner]

Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.

[Somniloquism]

Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)

As with most things Scottish, they can't always do it south of the border.

[Risso]

Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)

As with most things Scottish, they can't always do it south of the border.

Indeed.  He was a disaster at Everton.

[Chris Smith]

So, Brisbane, what does a manager do to earn his money if results are not his responsibility?

[VillaZogmariner]

Smith never worked out at Everton, and I've seen nothing since then to make me think he would succeed now either.

I also think he is retiring now, hence the reason he is leaving as Rangers boss.

[Ad@m]

I can see what you are saying Risso, and I agree that with 2 games to go there should be no mathematical chance that we could go down. But look at the bigger picture for a second - our form between the signing of Bent and Houllier being rushed into hospital was the 7th best in the league. Throw in with that the freak of a match that was Bolton away too and it would've been even better. Houllier has made mistakes this season, there is no getting away from that fact. However he has also done some good things too and the team was starting to show a bit of promise.

You know what they say, there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Bent made his debut against Man City and including that one we had 11 league games before Houllier went in to hospital.  In that period we played Wigan, Fulham, Blackpool, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Newcastle and West Ham.  In any of the last three seasons I would've expected us to win almost all of those but this season we won just 4.

To say we had the 7th best form over that period is completely misrepresentative when during that period we didn't have to play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs.

[Mazrim]

Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.

Correct. If the manager wanted new fuel he had to clean his own pipes. You cant blame Randy. MON had enough funding and would have had more after some much needed reorgansiation of misused assets and resources.

[Chris Smith]

Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.

But we managed to sell players in January so it would only have been at that level for a few months, I'm arguing that a bit of flexibility in the summer might have given us a better season.