Summer transfer rumours, speculation and out-and-out b*ll*cks.

[dave.woodhall]

Even the mancs with their feted youth team of beckham giggs etc.. stole most of them .The world and his wife knew about these players before they were at ManU so rather than them being proof of some great youth set-up by Ferguson, its more a gauge of how big the brown envelope he left at their parents was.

They didn't, but let's not have the truth getting in the way of some more Nashonian idiocy.

depends on your definition of stole. giggs was at citeh until his mum suddenly got a new washing machine. Bechkam, all the london clubs knew about him. the nevilles were at bury and Lancashire i think with one of them classed  as future england cricketer according to dickie bird. Even the likes of John Terry got an invitation to meet the mancs 1st team just before he was due to sign his first professional contract with chelsea

Giggs and Beckham signed for United when they were 14. All the London clubs might have known about Beckham, but he signed for United. The rest were with United as schoolboys.

[Greg N'Ash]

Even the mancs with their feted youth team of beckham giggs etc.. stole most of them .The world and his wife knew about these players before they were at ManU so rather than them being proof of some great youth set-up by Ferguson, its more a gauge of how big the brown envelope he left at their parents was.

They didn't, but let's not have the truth getting in the way of some more Nashonian idiocy.

depends on your definition of stole. giggs was at citeh until his mum suddenly got a new washing machine. Bechkam, all the london clubs knew about him. the nevilles were at bury and Lancashire i think with one of them classed  as future england cricketer according to dickie bird. Even the likes of John Terry got an invitation to meet the mancs 1st team just before he was due to sign his first professional contract with chelsea

Giggs and Beckham signed for United when they were 14. All the London clubs might have known about Beckham, but he signed for United. The rest were with United as schoolboys.

Not sure what the age has to do with it. bottom line is they'd been found and targeted by manu long before 14.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

I hear what you're saying Greg and pretty much agree. My point is that OUR kids (couldn't give a sh*t about anybody elses's) are not being given the experience/opportunities early enough IMO. I try to get to as many reserve/youth games as I can and see the good ones coming through who I think would benefit themselves and the club/team by being involved sooner rather than later. We know now that Gardner and Johnson have the skill and potential, so let's make the most of it (to be fair I think AM is already doing that).
Our kids were great kids in MON's time but he simply didn't use them.
C Gardner was best player for THEM last year and top scorer. If he was still with us would we pick him over Stan/Makoun/Delph/Ireland/Bannan?

[Merv]

Slight variation there, Greg. Giggs was well known in Manchester, with City and United tussling for his signature and United eventually winning. Beckham involved with West Ham and Orient as a kid but was United-mad, attended the Bobby Charlton Soccer School one year and was basically spotted as he was the best player in the camp that year. He practically pestered United to notice him. The Nevilles... you'll know the proximity of Bury to Manchester, of course.
So basically you've got three local lads within the catchment area being signed up by Utd, and then the Beckham story. It's not exactly as if United were picking off the best talent in the UK by trawling the country and offering small transfer deals.

Still, I'm not sure what relevance that has to Villa, anyway. We have been, and still are, operating a very strong youth football set-up which is seeing players graduate into the senior squad, with several either becoming first team players, or generating transfer fees by being sold on at some stage. Which is the whole point of having a youth set-up, isn't it?

Granted, we don't yet have the single outstanding superstar to have come through the ranks - though I'd argue we had one, and sold him, and you've already mentioned him - but that does tend to be a once in a generation thing per club and who's to say we won't have one around the corner? The current squad has two who I think have the potential to be very good PL players in Albrighton and Clark.

[Concrete John]

And wasn't Beckham a Man Utd fan as a kid aswell?

Anyway, the original point has become lost in another blast of 'The World According to Greg'.  We have a good youth system that's produced numerous PL level players in recent years:-
Gabby
Vassell
Cahill
Barry
Samuel
Gardner
Ridgewell

Not all of top quality admittedly, but the thing we're looking for is them to be as good or better than the likes of Beye, Sidwell and Harewood, so that our funds can then be more focused on the Bent's of this world with the youth fleshing out the squad.

[Greg N'Ash]

I hear what you're saying Greg and pretty much agree. My point is that OUR kids (couldn't give a sh*t about anybody elses's) are not being given the experience/opportunities early enough IMO. I try to get to as many reserve/youth games as I can and see the good ones coming through who I think would benefit themselves and the club/team by being involved sooner rather than later. We know now that Gardner and Johnson have the skill and potential, so let's make the most of it (to be fair I think AM is already doing that).
Our kids were great kids in MON's time but he simply didn't use them.
C Gardner was best player for THEM last year and top scorer. If he was still with us would we pick him over Stan/Makoun/Delph/Ireland/Bannan?

yeah, MON should have picked them more., but playing devils advocate at where we were a few seasons back, would there have been a groundswell to play say the Fonz for 10 games and drop gabby while we were chasing a european place? If he'd struggled the knives would have been out for MON.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

And wasn't Beckham a Man Utd fan as a kid aswell?

Anyway, the original point has become lost in another blast of 'The World According to Greg'.  We have a good youth system that's produced numerous PL level players in recent years:-
Gabby
Vassell
Cahill
Barry
Samuel
Gardner
Ridgewell

Not all of top quality admittedly, but the thing we're looking for is them to be as good or better than the likes of Beye, Sidwell and Harewood, so that our funds can then be more focused on the Bent's of this world with the youth fleshing out the squad.

We nicked Barry from Brighton!

[Concrete John]

We nicked Barry from Brighton!

And then put him into our youth system.  He was a late joiner, but still the product of our youth scouting and development.

[Merv]

Myhill

Gardner Cahill Clark Samuel/Ridgewell

Albrighton Davis Barry Whittingham

Gabby Vassell/Delfouneso

Yes - not top six material perhaps but in their prime that team wouldn't have been a pushover.

[Greg N'Ash]

And wasn't Beckham a Man Utd fan as a kid aswell?

Anyway, the original point has become lost in another blast of 'The World According to Greg'.  We have a good youth system that's produced numerous PL level players in recent years:-
Gabby
Vassell
Cahill
Barry
Samuel
Gardner
Ridgewell

Not all of top quality admittedly, but the thing we're looking for is them to be as good or better than the likes of Beye, Sidwell and Harewood, so that our funds can then be more focused on the Bent's of this world with the youth fleshing out the squad.

maybe but again thats now really a premiership squad and only a couple of them will ever be, or were good enough to play for a club chasing europe so do you keep players who will only be decent reserves/average premier players or flog them to bring some money in?

[JJ-AV]

That team would be relegated IMO.

[Concrete John]

And wasn't Beckham a Man Utd fan as a kid aswell?

Anyway, the original point has become lost in another blast of 'The World According to Greg'.  We have a good youth system that's produced numerous PL level players in recent years:-
Gabby
Vassell
Cahill
Barry
Samuel
Gardner
Ridgewell

Not all of top quality admittedly, but the thing we're looking for is them to be as good or better than the likes of Beye, Sidwell and Harewood, so that our funds can then be more focused on the Bent's of this world with the youth fleshing out the squad.

maybe but again thats now really a premiership squad and only a couple of them will ever be, or were good enough to play for a club chasing europe so do you keep players who will only be decent reserves/average premier players or flog them to bring some money in?

Whichever the manager at the time decides upon.

Nobody is saying that it should be a squad made up entirely of youth players, just that if they're useful then use them.  And we produce some useful players! 

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

I hear what you're saying Greg and pretty much agree. My point is that OUR kids (couldn't give a sh*t about anybody elses's) are not being given the experience/opportunities early enough IMO. I try to get to as many reserve/youth games as I can and see the good ones coming through who I think would benefit themselves and the club/team by being involved sooner rather than later. We know now that Gardner and Johnson have the skill and potential, so let's make the most of it (to be fair I think AM is already doing that).
Our kids were great kids in MON's time but he simply didn't use them.
C Gardner was best player for THEM last year and top scorer. If he was still with us would we pick him over Stan/Makoun/Delph/Ireland/Bannan?

yeah, MON should have picked them more., but playing devils advocate at where we were a few seasons back, would there have been a groundswell to play say the Fonz for 10 games and drop gabby while we were chasing a european place? If he'd struggled the knives would have been out for MON.

We all know MON's lack of variety in team selection and we've probably all had a moan about it at the time - there were chances to ring a few changes with younger players rather than just bringing Heskey/Carew on. When he did include the kids it was in a sort of total change and he sent them to Russia to get stuffed! Knives were drawn then if I remember. The kids need to be managed, not just thrown in at the deep end once or twice a year and told to sink or swim knowing it won't make any difference cos they won't be playing next game anyway.
Include them in the squad and play them when possible.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

And wasn't Beckham a Man Utd fan as a kid aswell?

Anyway, the original point has become lost in another blast of 'The World According to Greg'.  We have a good youth system that's produced numerous PL level players in recent years:-
Gabby
Vassell
Cahill
Barry
Samuel
Gardner
Ridgewell

Not all of top quality admittedly, but the thing we're looking for is them to be as good or better than the likes of Beye, Sidwell and Harewood, so that our funds can then be more focused on the Bent's of this world with the youth fleshing out the squad.

maybe but again thats now really a premiership squad and only a couple of them will ever be, or were good enough to play for a club chasing europe so do you keep players who will only be decent reserves/average premier players or flog them to bring some money in?

Whichever the manager at the time decides upon.

Nobody is saying that it should be a squad made up entirely of youth players, just that if they're useful then use them.  And we produce some useful players! 

Exactly!

[brontebilly]

I hear what you're saying Greg and pretty much agree. My point is that OUR kids (couldn't give a sh*t about anybody elses's) are not being given the experience/opportunities early enough IMO. I try to get to as many reserve/youth games as I can and see the good ones coming through who I think would benefit themselves and the club/team by being involved sooner rather than later. We know now that Gardner and Johnson have the skill and potential, so let's make the most of it (to be fair I think AM is already doing that).
Our kids were great kids in MON's time but he simply didn't use them.
C Gardner was best player for THEM last year and top scorer. If he was still with us would we pick him over Stan/Makoun/Delph/Ireland/Bannan?

yeah, MON should have picked them more., but playing devils advocate at where we were a few seasons back, would there have been a groundswell to play say the Fonz for 10 games and drop gabby while we were chasing a european place? If he'd struggled the knives would have been out for MON.

When Gabby was struggling yes, particularly at home against weaker sides the Fonz would always be likely to get in good positions. Instead MON played Gabby into the ground and signed clowns like Harewood and Heskey as back up.

To be fair to MON, I never thought Gardner would make it. Though he never got many chances in the centre of midfield and was dire on the right of midfield. He always seemed very one paced to me and offered little on the ball. Still though even at that he would have been better than Sidwell and we could do with him next to Delph now. Again Gardner could have been kept happy been given chances in the centre of the park for certain games, that is what Fergie has done well over the years. Kept the likes of Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown etc happy and then always had reliable back up when injuries struck.

Selling Cahill for effectively Curtis Davies was awful. We've gone through Knight, Cuellar, Dunne and Collins since and I reckon Cahill is better than the lot. Surprising really what MON didnt see in Cahill as he partnered Laursen a good bit in his first season at the club. He looked to me to have plenty of potential then.