The difference between o neill and houllier

[TopDeck113]

The players, for all I care, can be commuting from John O'Groats to sit lounging in the Bodymoor Heath jacuzzi whilst chatting on their mobile phones, as long as they do the business on the pitch come match day.

Manifestly they're not, and for so long as that remains the case, all the talk of changes of culture and method is just fatuous bull shit.

I know it has already been said, but the answer to the question posed in the thread title is about 20 points, a dozen or so league places and an immeasurable amount of positivity around all things Aston Villa.

[The Left Side]

It seems that MoN would target a player, go out and get him whereas GH targets a player, it comes out in the paper and then he falls at the final fence when the player doesn't join us. Of course it did help MoN that he would offer silly wages for him to join but I can't remember if he did miss out on any signings he went after, maybe i'm wrong plus a lot of the deals would go through quietly and out the media gaze.

[Marlon's Hairy Wood]

Despite everything, christ I miss O'Neill

never mind the players, the confidence he gave me in the side on match day is sorely missed

travelling down to the Emirates or up to Old Trafford knowing that despite not having a star studded line up like the opposition, the fact we have O'Neills passion on the touchline and in the dressing room gives us more than half a chance

[Phil from the upper holte]

I think he comes across as a headmaster type that the players don't like instead of playing to their ego's like Mon used to.

I don't agree with telling players they are fantastic or magnificent all the time but motivating them match day is key.

They don't look motivated to me at all, and Houllier has definately not won me over yet. I'm prepared to give him more time but results really must improve! Scum away followed by Manchester City, Wigan then UTD away we could really end up adrift of teams above us and that's what really worries me

[supertom]

O Neill was excellent at getting the very best out of his preferred players. He actually improved the games of most of our key players in his 4 years. Gabby is a pretty limited player in all truth, but O Neill got that extra 10% out of him and in turn we had 4 years running, that Gab hit double figures.

Fitness issue aside, Gabby looks lost under Houllier. He's missing a certain desire he had, and belief, from playing under O Neill.

My main concern with Houllier is that we've look tactically even more inept than we ever did under O Neill. Houllier would have been noted as more a tactician than O Neill for sure, while O Neill is more the man-management style of manager. But it's not working out. We look disjointed, lost and clueless.

Do the senior players want to really bust a gut for Houllier? No they don't. Aside from Heskey, who's on Ged's wavelength. Downing and Albrighton have also relished perhaps simply game time more so than Houllier himself. Certainly Mark. Downing I suspect is enjoying what we're trying to do right now.

The biggest difference though, is a team, minus one player, has gone from 6th, not far shy of the top 4, to 18th. By this point last season we must have been nearing 40 points already, instead of sitting ugly on 21 points right now. Injuries only count for so much. Those concerns aren't a patch the worrying sign of awful decisions and a clueless looking team.

O Neill only had a plan A granted. But at least he had a plan A. Houllier doesn't seem to have that yet.

[Ian.]

Lets hope he has a Plan A, but this (MON's) team just don't know how to play it, and hopefully (fingers crossed) the players he brings in understand what Plan A is all about.
We can only hope cause we are stuck with him for the time being. I'm keeping my glasses half full on for now, I think he deserves a chance to bring players in and see what he can do with them.

[Greg N'Ash]

It makes you wonder who the dis-satisfied players think the club will bring in if they sack Houllier. Can't be many managers around today who train in such a sloppy easy going manner. Short of building a time machine and kidnapping some coach from the 70's they're stuffed.

[sfx412]

very salient point Greg.

[KevinGage]

These players that are coming in for widespread stick are near enough the same bunch that helped us to successive top 6 finishes and the latter stages of the two cups last year.

With a few exceptions (Liverpool away, Man Citeh away) I haven't seen a lack of effort, rather it's been a difficulty to implement GH's (or possibly more accurately Gary Mac's) plans - such as they are. Sometimes we actually start well, but then fall apart when the opposition up the tempo or score.

You can blame the players for that, but surely a key component of any managerial role is to get the best out of your resources. MON -for all his faults- could do that more often than not.  The players who spent long periods on the sidelines under him and might have had a genuine grievance haven't exactly covered themselves in glory under new management either.

Collywobbles mentioned in his book years ago that MON's methods in training with Leicester were 'different.'  Less drills and organisation and more knockabout. All be it knockabout with a vaguely match-related theme.  That was back in 2000, so it doesn't sound like there was a huge difference from 2006 onwards with us. However the oddball managed it, he got a response though. Players -those in the first XI at least - wanted to play for him. And plenty of ex players (admittedly not a huge amount from Villa) still sing his praises.

I guess being greedy you'd want someone who has that kind of charisma but who also has an awareness of the changes in the modern game and the importance of keeping the ball at times. As an example, Fergiescum was the typical meat and potatoes 4-4-2 manager for years, happy to make it jobs for the boys and have mates as assistants too. Before he copped on for the need to progress and get a wider perspective if Man U were to be effective again in Europe and brought in Queiroz to oversee changes in playing style and player recruitment.

It would have been great if MON had had the humility to at least seek a second opinion, or brought in someone with a different slant on things. But that's by the by.

[Bosco81]

What I don't get is if the training was so sloppy previously why did we score so many more goals from set pieces and also defend a lot better than we are now with our double training sessions.

Players at this level can be coached to play any style you like so I think the so called change in style is a myth.

Personally I think all players should live close to the club, to give them a better feel for the club and the fans, I didn't realize that players were allowed to do so.

[olaftab]

Mobile phones were banned at the training ground, players were told to cut out non-football related chit-chat in training and those living miles away from the club, such as Stephen Warnock in Ormskirk in Lancashire, were asked to relocate .

Seems  very sensible  thing to do. After all they are professional players and should act like professionals.

[olaftab]

The players, for all I care, can be commuting from John O'Groats to sit lounging in the Bodymoor Heath jacuzzi whilst chatting on their mobile phones, as long as they do the business on the pitch come match day.

Sloppy habits result in sloppy performance. They are well paid and therefore should have excellent discipline in preparing  for match days.

[TopDeck113]

The players, for all I care, can be commuting from John O'Groats to sit lounging in the Bodymoor Heath jacuzzi whilst chatting on their mobile phones, as long as they do the business on the pitch come match day.

Sloppy habits result in sloppy performance. They are well paid and therefore should have excellent discipline in preparing  for match days.

My point being that if that was the regime under MON, it was not serving us too badly.  The supposedly more "professional" regime of Houllier finds us far worse off in terms of both points and places than a year ago.

If any organisation is fundamentally sound - and Villa weren't in relegation danger before Houllier took over - sometimes the art of good management - and this applies in any walk of life - is to look around you and, if necessary, bite your tongue, put your master plans on the back burner, and instigate change at a pace perhaps more accommodating to that of your current charges.

[Greg N'Ash]

What I don't get is if the training was so sloppy previously why did we score so many more goals from set pieces and also defend a lot better than we are now with our double training sessions.

Players at this level can be coached to play any style you like so I think the so called change in style is a myth.

Personally I think all players should live close to the club, to give them a better feel for the club and the fans, I didn't realize that players were allowed to do so.

I suppose you could say he was an excellant motivator. I also believe he knew exactly what he wanted from limited players. I've certainly read accounts of him showing his displeasure with players who showed too much flair at celtic and didn't stick to the "plan". Only problem with that is once the manager leaves you're left with limited players who can't cope with anything else. All very well if MON can motivate a fat-arsed Dunne but not much use to anyone else

[hawkeye]

Without doubt MON had the ability to motivate "his" players and get them to play his limited idea of football effectively.
Now we have the opposite a bloke that dosent seem to care that much and his methods are not working.

I dont have much faith that he knows how to turn this around, Sunday is a huge game for him and us.