Gerard Houllier

[myf]

Realistically, I think we need to give Houllier to the end of feb then re-assess where we are based on results and league position and games remaining.

2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 1 pt
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Ci££eh (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 1 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts

I predict a further 9 points during Jan/Feb giving us 29 pts with 10 games to go, so in theory on our way to safety so Houllier keeps his job and gets a summer to fully begin the re-build

I agree with this - the worrying thing is we'd only have about 22 points in Feb which would probably mean rock bottom and a huge ask to get any confidence or form back.

[pauliewalnuts]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

[dave.woodhall]

How many players have we lost in the last five years? I know it's Talk Your Club Down Week, but let's not re-write history as well.

[cdward]

In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times.  Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common.  The correction of our faults was left too late.   The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.

Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?  Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions?   There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.

When you can produce  some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.

Very well put, Brian.  We are probably about the same age and been through the same highs and lows.

Your right about the one thing in common before each relegation in that things were not recognised and acted on early enough.  I differ from you though in the analysis.  From my memory, it was always the manager not recognising that the players were not up to it and failing to make the change.  Like now, there were also player cliques.

Houllier has, I believe, seen that certain players are not good enough to take us forward from last season and others had peaked and are on the way down.

MON built a squad that he pushed to the limit the season before last and they hit the wall.  He saw the problem and brought in new players in defence but the same thing happened again, they reached the limit which was not quite good enough.  What he failed to do though was to buy a replacement for Carew and Petrov as they had both reached their peak.  Also, in all his time he could not sort out both fullback positions.

We relied last season very much on Collins/Dunne and Milner.  Take away the consistency of the Collins/Dunne combination, take Milner out of the equation and with Carew and Petrov both going backwards (the former dramatically) and you can see the big hole forming down the middle of the team.  Add to this, injuries to Gabby and others and the team has disintegrated.  When you look more closely, you can see why.

I do not believe any of what I have said above is down to Houllier.  He has had to react to it and I tend to agree that he has not handled it too well.  He has tried to use the young players sparingly by switching them around so as not to destroy their confidence and to try and come up with the right combination.

I am concerned about things that he is reported to have said, although I have not heard many of the things on TV or radio.  There are many false rumours being put about, some by our own supporters (how any Villa supporter can take satisfaction from spreading a false rumour that will distress other supporters is beyond me).  GH has upset some players but I do not think it is to the extent that he has 'lost the dressing room'.

I think that GH has found it harder than he expected because like many people he probably thought the players were of a higher calibre and stronger character.  I think it is the wrong time to change the manager because a new manager will not have time to assess the squad and bring in new players.  I trust GH to bring in good players that will be of value to the club in the future, whether he is manager or not.  If, come the middle of February, things have not improved and we are still sliding, then would be the time to change.  Likewise, if GH stays and we only just limp over the line at the end of the season, that may be the time to change.

Good post there OMVF, i don't agree with all your points, but i agree with you on giving Houllier more time. Without dwelling on what has gone on up until now, and we all have our own opinions, the important thing is how will we cope for the rest of the season, the smart money is on trust the manager, i just hope he repays Randys and our faith in his ways.
Interesting times ahead

[Bosco81]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

[pauliewalnuts]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.

[eric woolban woolban]

Were Man Utd classed as a selling club when they sold Ronaldo?

[Dave]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.

Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.

[Des Little]

If Young goes (and I don't want him to before I get aggro) we should use the money to get NZogbia.  He's the bollards.

[Arsey]

And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.

To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players.  Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.

Is this the same dross that finished 6th last season, 1 point ahead of Liverpool, 3 points behind Money City and 6 points off 4th place, and a Cup Final appearance?

Some people need to get out of their heads that the last manager left a load of crap behind, he did'nt. He overpaid for a few of them yes, but they were decent players a few months ago, what's changed?

We paid 9.5m for Davies, and he's currently on loan at Leicester City. We paid 5 for Sidwell, who has run his contract out, picked up 50k a week for 3 years and contributed the square root of fuck all.

 

to clutch at a few straws...

Sidwell's assist in the throw-in that led to Milner's goal was good....

[WikiVilla]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.

Ash will go, Baines will stay IMO
therein lieth the difference & the problem

[WikiVilla]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.

Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.

And did he ?

[SashasGrandad]

If Young goes (and I don't want him to before I get aggro) we should use the money to get NZogbia.  He's the bollards.

Good with his head (last night) as well!

[Toronto Villa]

Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose

I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.

Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.

Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.

Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.

And did he ?

linked is one thing, but did Arsenal even make a bid? I think that might be an important component.

[WikiVilla]

Or maybe Everton killed it before the move gained any sort of momentum

We seem to just resign ourselves to losing our cream