Gerard Houllier

[damon loves JT]

The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.

That's surely a little over the top?

I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.

In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.

How about the last two transfer windows and the intention to focus on the wage bill?

Or, put slightly differently,`intention to stop a business from haemorrhaging money before it is too late.'

There's not much excitement or glory in being sensible, I concede that. But there it is.

[Pat McMahon]

I must admit to being seriously worried now. There is an incredible lack of belief and passion from the players, and I was amazed at how quiet the crowd was last night, and I was in the Holte upper. I read today that we had 59% possession but most of it was sideways and there we too few occasions when we looked like playing an intelligent forward pass. I heard we had 24 chances on goal but am struggling to remember many proper saves by Gomes - our goal was indicative of our playas a whole.

Houllier does deserve a transfer window to get some of his own players in but he also needs to manage the players he has inherited. If I remember correctly, Houllier has previously sold Friedel, Warnock and Carew so they are probably playing with no confidence whatsoever. But not starting with Petrov or NRC last night - or both - was strange against a midfield full of confidence and experience, and to play Delph for the first time in 9 months was a strange (brave?) decision. Tactically I thought these were very strange options, as was using Collins as a makeshift centre forward in the last 10-15 minutes (again TBF, I think I remember the mighty mourinho using Robert Huth in the same role on a few occasions).

Roll on 1 January Gerard, and please give me reasons to believe.

[john e]

If something doesn't change we will be relegated. People have said that there are at least 3 teams beginning W that are worse than us but the reality is that there are 3 teams beginning with W that have taken more points than us since Gerard became manager.

The idea that we are relying on January signings to try and help us avoid relegation is horrendous. We were a very effective team last season and he needs to get us back playing like that. Fast.

theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future

we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,

remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow

[WikiVilla]

To be fair Collins as CF did yield a goal (by default)

[Bosco81]

To be fair Collins as CF did yield a goal (by default)

But it does go against the whole playing more football debate if when we're really struggling we are reduced to that.
I am looking forward to seeing what players he brings in over the next month especially I have may not have seen half of them play, I'd be annoyed if we sold any of the kids, Gabby or Ashley, anyone else is fair game.

[Villa'Zawg]

The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.

That's surely a little over the top?

I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.

In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.

How about the last two transfer windows and the intention to focus on the wage bill?

Or, put slightly differently,`intention to stop a business from haemorrhaging money before it is too late.'

There's not much excitement or glory in being sensible, I concede that. But there it is.

When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.

And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.

[dave.woodhall]

When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.

And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.

That's just it isn't it? You think Randy should hand over every penny he and his family possess. Were you, by any chance, a Wolves supporter when Jack Hayward was in charge? Because you sound like one.

[damon loves JT]

Sidwell and Beye were regarded as investments until it became clear that they were actually liabilities.

[Risso]

theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future

we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,

remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow

One decent 60 minute spell against an injury ravaged Man U isn't enough to prove that the good times are around the corner with Houllier in charge.  He's looked hopelessly out of his depth since arriving.  Villadawg is right, relegation is a very real possibility.

[The Situation]

I just can't put my finger on exactly what is wrong with the team right now... yes our defence hasn't been good and keeping Collins in the team isn't helping, we're not putting away our chances etc... we're just not being ruthless enough, we're trying but it's the same outcome most of the time. Apart from Newcastle and Liverpool away I don't think I can think of another game when we played so badly... we're putting in the performances but not getting out from what we're putting in.

No point in blaming Houllier and saying it's all his fault, he hasn't the chance to play his first choice of 11 yet... players are coming back from injury and we'll bringning in some additions hopefully, that's the time to judge.

[Mac]

theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future

we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,

remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow

One decent 60 minute spell against an injury ravaged Man U isn't enough to prove that the good times are around the corner with Houllier in charge.  He's looked hopelessly out of his depth since arriving.  Villadawg is right, relegation is a very real possibility.

Weren't we injury ravaged also?

[markavfc40]

Worrying thing is we are getting worse not better under him. 5 defeats in last 6 potentially 7 defeats in 8 come Saturday evening. Its simply not good enough and the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Apparently he got dogs abuse on his way back to the dressing room at full time last night. The crowd is very much on the verge of turning against him in a big way and the Sunderland game could well bring massive pressure, especially if we do lose the next two, and could well be the tipping point.

[Villa'Zawg]

When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.

And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.

That's just it isn't it? You think Randy should hand over every penny he and his family possess. Were you, by any chance, a Wolves supporter when Jack Hayward was in charge? Because you sound like one.

I'm not sure why you have to act like such a drama queen. Where have I ever said he should hand over every penny his family possess?

It isn't a question of wanting Lerner to invest all of his money in Aston Villa, it is a question of whether he is willing to invest enough to achieve HIS stated aim of competing at the top of the Premier League and winning trophies.

You seem to be of the opinion that because his investment so far is a big number, then that means he has invested enough. Well I'm afraid he hasn't invested enough. The Sky four have been investing for many more years than we have and they all have wage bills in excess of £100m per year. Spurs and Man City have spent more than DOUBLE on their squads during the period Lerner has been here, Spurs spent £119.3m in one single season, Man City more than that. Our total outlay on the squad in all the time Lerner has been owner is £140m.

Either Randy Lerner was a bit stupid in not understanding what it would take financially to achieve parity with the best teams in the league or it was never a serious intention. Sorry if that sounds harsh but what other explanation is there?

Do you honestly think that Lerner's investment in the playing squad is having a significant impact on his family's overall wealth? Should we be worried that he is going to end up broke if he continued investing in the squad at the level he has so far?

[dave.woodhall]

I'm not sure why you have to act like such a drama queen. Where have I ever said he should hand over every penny his family possess?

It isn't a question of wanting Lerner to invest all of his money in Aston Villa, it is a question of whether he is willing to invest enough to achieve HIS stated aim of competing at the top of the Premier League and winning trophies.

You seem to be of the opinion that because his investment so far is a big number, then that means he has invested enough. Well I'm afraid he hasn't invested enough. The Sky four have been investing for many more years than we have and they all have wage bills in excess of £100m per year. Spurs and Man City have spent more than DOUBLE on their squads during the period Lerner has been here, Spurs spent £119.3m in one single season, Man City more than that. Our total outlay on the squad in all the time Lerner has been owner is £140m.

Either Randy Lerner was a bit stupid in not understanding what it would take financially to achieve parity with the best teams in the league or it was never a serious intention. Sorry if that sounds harsh but what other explanation is there?

Do you honestly think that Lerner's investment in the playing squad is having a significant impact on his family's overall wealth? Should we be worried that he is going to end up broke if he continued investing in the squad at the level he has so far?

You calling anyone a drama queen has to be the best line for a long while. Have you finished stamping your feet and insisting Spurs accounts are wrong yet? And it was you who brought up the Lerner family's alleged wealth so I can only assume you think it's all fair game in subsidising the Villa.

According to people with a bit more inside information than you, there's only one club who have invested more net than Villa since Randy took over. Whether that's true or not, Villa have spent enough to get into the Champions League at some stage in the past four seasons. I don't know what impact this has had on the Lerner family fortune - there you go again - but I do know that it's ever so easy to spend other peoples' money. 

[SoccerHQ]

Collins upfront was just a sign of desperation a lot of managers do when they are losing.

We did it with Dunney upfront for the last 5 minutes in the Arsenal game, Manure brought on Smalling and played him upfront against us and Mourinho did it with Huth a few times I seem to remember.

That said, he has to do better than last night otherwise his P45 will be arriving shortly.

A 4-4-2 selection was naive in the extreme against a 5 man Spurs midfield of excellent quality.

The game was too much for Hogg really and he would've been sent off if he hadn't have been withdrawn.

Really surprised NRC wasn't in there again, the sort of player you need to disrupt Spurs's passing with niggly fouls here and there.

A rather inglorious return to 4-4-2 all in all.