2018: So what now for Villa Park redevelopment?

[Irish villain]

I'd love Randy to make the Holte one tier.

That would involve knocking the stand we've come to love? I like the Holte as it is...maybe the new North Stand could be one tier?

[Pete3206]

A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.

I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Arsenal supporters (those in the traditional North London/Hertfordshire catchment area at least) probably have -on average- higher incomes  than their Birmingham counterparts.

Arsenal have also had many years of consistent CL qualification plus the attraction of players like Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie and co.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to see us charge £893 – £1,825 for season tickets, but if we had at least some of the above in place the demand might be there to (at least partly) justify it.

I don't disagree with any of that. However, some did think that ticket prices would be cheaper.

To put more seats in at Villa Park would cost a fortune. I can't see how that would drive ticket prices down. Unless they were going to follow the same type of desperation measures as they do now to fill seats.

I don't think the demand is there to justify any sort of expansion.

[olaftab]

We struggle to sell out 42700 current capacity.  Calculation below are fag packet stuff but!
This  year we will average out at 35000.  Our average ticket price is 30 pounds. This means the gate for every game is 1,050,000 pounds. If we expand the capacity to 50 000 and reduce the average  ticket price to 25 pounds and this results in average gate increasing to 45000  the revenue per game  will be  1,125,000. On the face of it a 75000 pounds inrease per game means that payback on investment will be long  and possibly not worth pursuing HOWEVER  having  45K people turn up ever week will generate  further  revenue from related sales and give the  whole club and  team a lift,  build the platform to  increase  the commercial opportunity from big business.  So  increasing capacity  and  reducing ticket price is well worth investigating.
 

[KevinGage]

A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.

I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Arsenal supporters (those in the traditional North London/Hertfordshire catchment area at least) probably have -on average- higher incomes  than their Birmingham counterparts.

Arsenal have also had many years of consistent CL qualification plus the attraction of players like Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie and co.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to see us charge £893 – £1,825 for season tickets, but if we had at least some of the above in place the demand might be there to (at least partly) justify it.

I don't disagree with any of that. However, some did think that ticket prices would be cheaper.

To put more seats in at Villa Park would cost a fortune. I can't see how that would drive ticket prices down. Unless they were going to follow the same type of desperation measures as they do now to fill seats.

I don't think the demand is there to justify any sort of expansion.

And that's fair enough.

I'm of the opinion that making a decision that affects longterm progress based purely on current circumstances is limiting and incredibly shortsighted.  And gave examples of other clubs (and ours) who have seen an increase in average attendance after expansion -even if they weren't selling out consistently prior to the work taking place.

Agree to disagree.

[hawkeye]

Good business practice is to incease demand before increasing supply.
Demand is falling right now.

[TimTheVillain]

Good business practice is to incease demand before increasing supply.
Demand is falling right now.

It may be a good time to knock it down as my guess is we'd have the new stand closed for business for some games anyway.

Thus, another school of thought is to reduce capacity when demand is low only to increase capacity for when times are good.

[old man villa fan]

Redeveloping the Witton end to increase the capacity would mean a major structure that would take some time to build.  Unless the stand was 2-tier and built behind the North Stand with the lower tier added after the North Stand was demolished, we would be cutting capacity during the redevelopment.  Better to do this when attendances are below capacity.

Building behind the North Stand would mean the car park and the facilities behind being cleared.  As others have said, viability may depend on other facilities in addition to a stand being built e.g. retail, hotel, business/conference space.  It may be that these are built first, allowing a steady moving of existing facilities behind the North Stand before the stand itself is constructed.  The benefit of this is that it would grow the commercial activities before committing to spending on the stand.

[FatSam]

Like others on here I'm fond of the North Stand for sentimental reasons. However, I recognize that its redevelopment represents the best opportunity to increase the overall ground capacity. The club would also like to bring its facilities in-line with the rest of the ground, and their vision (largely shared with all other Premier League clubs) for the contemporary supporter experience.

If we were selling-out more consistently, or still hosting FA Cup semi-finals, then I would imagine we would have seen moves in this direction from the board - some feasibility work has supposedly already been undertaken. I also think that they would like to be seen to be improving the ground, as part of moving towards the 'bright future'. However, you could argue that at the moment the North Stand helps rather than hinders attendances, by providing supporters with a cost effective option provided they are happy with the legroom/ facilities etc. Therefore redevelopment plans exist in a kind of limbo, and only a successful England World Cup bid would have forced the issue.

Taking the North Stand out of use would only reduce the capacity by around 6,000, and therefore wouldn't have a massive financial impact (especially if we aren't selling-out). Depending upon the design, by avoiding home games at the end of one season and the start of the following, and fast-tracking a portion of the new stand, it might even be possible to avoid any reduced overall capacity.

I agree with many on here that individual stands are good, and this increasingly helps to identify Villa Park as being a traditional football ground rather than an identikit stadium. However, this doesn't mean that stands can't be linked at all, or share common characteristics. Although a very ugly stand in itself (especially externally), some continuation of the Trinity Road Stand tier arrangements etc. would result in a more coordinated and considered appearance for a new Witton End stand (especially as it would probably be on a similar scale). Within this similarity, the introduction of elements such as the old Trinity Rd stand gable, or the AV floodlights, would help express the individuality of the stands in my view.

With the renovation of the Holte Pub, and the introduction of the mosaics on the Holte End, the area around and between these two has started to play a role in representing the club's heritage following demolition of the old Trinity Rd stand. Therefore, I'm comfortable with the rest of the ground being both more consistent, and more contemporary. To this end I would also ultimately welcome the Holte End reverting to a single tier to make this difference even more apparent. 

[villa1]

I'd also like to see made into a single tier stand.

[bertlambshank]

I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.

[Legion]

I think (and hope) not. Different era.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Leave it for now, No point as we can't fill it now, lets get the team winning and hopefully people will come back.

[Phil from the upper holte]

I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.

What's wrong with the trinity?

[bertlambshank]

I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.

What's wrong with the trinity?

It's not the old one.

[SoccerHQ]

I think there will be redevlopment in the next 2-3 years of the North stand.

That should whack our capacity up to around 50k. Obviously if we're bobbling along 11 or 12th we won't fill it for many games but in the last few seasons challenging top 4, we have been getting season averages of 40k I think so we're not that far off.

This season our attendances have taken a dip, obviously in part to poorer results on the pitch but more imo due to pitching our match day prices far too high this season especially in the economic climate. 41 quid to sit in the Upper Witton on saturday, you're not going to get people queueing round the block to sit there. So much so we won't sell out again.