Houllier says Ireland Must Up His Game

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't see what difference Milner makes in this situation.

He wanted to go, we sold him. We bought Ireland. To use "not as good as Milner" as a stick to beat Ireland with seems very unfair - not only because what Milner did for us is nothing to do with Ireland, but because they are fundamentally different players.

I also wonder whether some of our criticism of Ireland is also down to the fact that what the team lacks currently is a Milner style player, and it gets - unfairly - taken out on Ireland.

[Bosco81]

A better comparision for Ireland is Luka Modric as they are similar attacking players, last night Modric played alongside Huddlestone with VDV ahead of them, when Kevin Mac tried Ireland there with Petrov and Young ahead we got overrun, the reason we were overrun is more to do with Ireland's lack of work rate than Petrov or Young.

We should be able to trust Ireland to play in a midfield 2, at the moment GH doesn't trust him to play in a midfield 3.

I bet Ireland's a good 5 a side player, I just hope he shows his talent in a proper match.

[Chris Smith]

Ireland at 22/23 was more than holding his own in a City side containing some of the world's best players. Milner at 24 currently isn't.

You're losing it, Kev, go and have a sit down and a nice cup of tea.

Ireland couldn't get in their side last season and can't get in ours this.

They've improved their squad over the summer and Milner has started 9 league games for them, the same number as Yaya Toure. How is he 'not holding his own'?

[Chris Smith]

I don't see what difference Milner makes in this situation.

He wanted to go, we sold him. We bought Ireland. To use "not as good as Milner" as a stick to beat Ireland with seems very unfair - not only because what Milner did for us is nothing to do with Ireland, but because they are fundamentally different players.

I also wonder whether some of our criticism of Ireland is also down to the fact that what the team lacks currently is a Milner style player, and it gets - unfairly - taken out on Ireland.

The issue is the claim that we got the better of the deal so it's clearly pertinent to mention Milner.

[KevinGage]

I think that definitely plays a part. We do miss Milner's drive and willingness to cover ground. We could get away with limited  tactics at times last year through sheer workrate and willpower alone.

This season we're missing two crucial things in that regard. (1) Milner's tenacity and  (2) stability at the back thanks to Dunne's increasingly erratic form. One of those we could probably compensate for. Both together and it's no wonder we've struggled so far.

None of those things are the fault of Ireland, but because we've struggled and because of the circumstances in which he joined it's understandable that he's viewed as central to our problems this year.

Twelve months is a long time in football. Twelve months ago not many would have viewed Milner as a better player than Ireland, certainly not twice the player.

In twelve months time Ireland could be fulfilling a crucial role for us as Ash's replacement. Or he could be gone altogether. I think it's reasonable to give him at least that period - effectively that same bedding in time that Petrov, Downing and Milner were allocated. Providing he's showing a willingness to adapt and improve.

[Chris Smith]

In twelve months time Ireland could be fulfilling a crucial role for us as Ash's replacement. Or he could be gone altogether. I think it's reasonable to give him at least that period - effectively that same bedding in time that Petrov, Downing and Milner were allocated. Providing he's showing a willingness to adapt and improve.

I agree entirely with that.

[peter w]

Of course we miss Milner. We also miss not making any purchases in the summer. We also miss Ash on the wing and we miss Gabby playing up front. We miss having a balanced team and we miss the attacking player being able to play in his preferred role due to Ash being in front of him. (Has Ash scored this season?)

Ireland hasn't started too well, no, but that can be due to just taking his time to settle in. I think Ash neds to be moved out of the way for him to be truly effective at the moment but I also think he looks short of fitness. There's a player there that in the right team can still be as effective as he was for Man City two seasons ago.

The argument that he was then dropped by Mancini doesn't really hold much sway with me regarding Ireland's ability because Mancini also got shot of arguably their best player last season.

[taylorsworkrate]

You seem determined to make Ireland out to be some kind of duffer yet:

Ireland was player of the year at Citeh under Hughes and national Young Player of the Year.

This during a time when Man Citeh had a whole host of world class players lets not forget.

In contrast, Milner played alongside the likes of Smith, Barton and Sibierski at Newcastle and Petrov, Sidwell and NRC at Villa.

So not identical backgrounds (Milner has also got a few years head start on Ireland as he broke through at 16)  but a similar trajectory in so far as they are both 24, both play midfield, both have  had one consistently good season and good periods in other campaigns and both have scooped the national Young Player of the Year gong.

It's not an unreasonable comparison on that basis, they're not exactly a million miles apart ability or experience wise. Even if they are different types of players.  Yet you won't see it as a similar trajectory for the same reason you didn't see us visibly tire as a side past the 60 minute mark last year and you didn't see the signings of Harewood and Heskey as questionable - because you flat out don't want to.

It suited your pro manager argument to turn the other way when it came to the above (I can only assume it was because you had your back turned to most of our matches that you couldn't see what was so blindingly obvious).  It suits your new position to be critical of any business dealings at the club - particularly a transfer that might have played a part in the departure of MON - so you can't/ won't see any merit in the signing of Ireland.  Or in any suggestion that he could -in time- be as effective as Milner was for us.

We've seen this routine before. It's dull, change it.

yet more obfuscation.

You've made claims that you can't back up so try to throw in all sorts of other shit.

Man City got what they wanted from the deal, we didn't. It's therefore highly contentious to say we got the better of it.

Milner's career is on the up, Irealand's gas, at best. levelled out.

I'm not claiming that he's a duffer, despite your consitent attempts to twist my words to pretend that I have, he's just not as good a player as Milner.

“If you say, ‘He’s a good player but he doesn’t defend, but he doesn’t run back, but he loses too many balls in crucial areas’, that’s difficult. He needs to get rid of these ‘buts’ and be a good player. We put him in at Sunderland behind the striker and he needs to get hold of the ball and play.”

I wasn't aware that Stephen Ireland was 33 years old.

[Chris Smith]

Of course we miss Milner. We also miss not making any purchases in the summer. We also miss Ash on the wing and we miss Gabby playing up front. We miss having a balanced team and we miss the attacking player being able to play in his preferred role due to Ash being in front of him. (Has Ash scored this season?)

Ireland hasn't started too well, no, but that can be due to just taking his time to settle in. I think Ash neds to be moved out of the way for him to be truly effective at the moment but I also think he looks short of fitness. There's a player there that in the right team can still be as effective as he was for Man City two seasons ago.

The argument that he was then dropped by Mancini doesn't really hold much sway with me regarding Ireland's ability because Mancini also got shot of arguably their best player last season.

Our best football this season has been when Ash has played in the middle with Downing and Albrighton out wide. He's scored 3 times.

I think it's a valid point that Hughes, Mancini and now Houllier have all successively thought Ireland not up to a starting place over the past 2 seasons. It might be up to him taking time to settle or it might be more to do with this

“He needs to work harder,” Houllier said.

If you say, ‘He’s a good player but he doesn’t defend, but he doesn’t run back, but he loses too many balls in crucial areas’, that’s difficult. He needs to get rid of these ‘buts’ and be a good player.

[5ft811st2 Durham]

Seems to me that Ireland doesn't have a future at the club unless we set up a 451 formation especially to accomodate him.

Milner on the other hand could perform capably in any formation and in virtually any position on the pitch.





 
 

[Merv]

I think it's a valid point that Hughes, Mancini and now Houllier have all successively thought Ireland not up to a starting place over the past 2 seasons. It might be up to him taking time to settle or it might be more to do with this

Chris, that's stretching it somewhat - not that I expect for one moment that you'll concede the point.

Ireland was arguably City's best player under Hughes; he wasn't a guaranteed starter under Mancini, fair enough; he's started three of the last four Villa games under Houllier. It's obvious from his quote you've included there that Houllier is not 100% convinced but he was answering a question about why Ireland didn't feature against Blues.

It's inaccurate to say three managers have consistently overlooked him for two seasons.

5ft811st2 Durham - well, he can also play well in a 4-3-3. So that's 4-5-1 and 4-3-3. Leaves only 4-4-2 as a viable formation and I still think he can do fine in that, with the right player next to him. He's not a problem player needed a highly specialised position to perform. He doesn't need a specially-constructed formation to get him playing.

As for Milner... you're right. He can perform capably in three midfield positions.

[Chris Smith]

I think it's a valid point that Hughes, Mancini and now Houllier have all successively thought Ireland not up to a starting place over the past 2 seasons. It might be up to him taking time to settle or it might be more to do with this

Chris, that's stretching it somewhat - not that I expect for one moment that you'll concede the point.

Last season he wasn't a regular starter under either Hughes or Mancini and this season he's started 4 league games for us so I don't see how it is stretching anything.

The season before he performed very well I believe but that was in a side that finished 10th.

[Concrete John]

Milner is a better player than Ireland.

£18m plus Ireland was a good deal for Milner.

Ireland will get better for us.

[dave.woodhall]

How long did we give Petrov?

[London Villan]

I think Petrov got more time because he was in a team that was improving all the time, at a time when no-one at the club could do any wrong. Ireland is in a squad that has taken a step back and in an environment where everyone is being a bit more pragmatic/negative.

We actually need Ireland to start performing an creating chances.