Ashley Young, Diver ?

[Chris Smith]

Ash being fouled by a player trying to get the ball is far less sinful than him diving and cheating.

"Reeeeffffereeee, when I pulled his shirt and then swiped his legs from under him from behind it was an honest attempt to get the ball".

[Olneythelonely]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

Except there was contact between Young and and the defender, there wasn't between Pennant and Petrov.

this has nothing to do with Young being a Villa player. He cheats a hell of a lot, but I don't think he did on this occasion.

[not3bad]

Except there was contact between Young and and the defender, there wasn't between Pennant and Petrov.

Disagree.  The replays clearly showed that at the point where Young launched himself towards the ground there was no contact.  The referee was correct in his punishment.

[adrenachrome]

Except there was contact between Young and and the defender, there wasn't between Pennant and Petrov.

Disagree.  The replays clearly showed that at the point where Young launched himself towards the ground there was no contact.  The referee was correct in his punishment.

I think he was avoiding the tackle to escape injury rather than diving for a penalty. So he should not have been booked, but the case for a penalty would be weak. If Ash had not become adept in this aspect of his game, his appearances would be reduced by at least 40%, I reckon. It is a shame that he does often overdo the theatrics, because the refs will surely have marked his card by now.

This reminds me of a trick often used by John Terry, where he goes to ground an draws his leg back as if about to scythe the attacker down but doesn't follow through. The attacking player usually goes over in an attempt to avoid injury and the referee usually gives nothing, or books the player who has fallen over.

By the way, referees who post on this site have pointed out that there does not need to be contact for a foul to be given.

[john e]

tackling is part and parcel of the game, any book on the techniques of football will have a chapter on tackling, and how to make good tackles.
any one 'kicking lumps' will be cautioned and sent of if neccesary.

you wont find the chapter on Diving, because its not part of the game,

Athletes wont find the chapter on the best drugs to use because its not part of athletics, but we all know it goes on,
 
Cricketers wont find the chapter on spot betting, because its not supposed to be part of the game, but it still happens,
what do we do just say, well we know it all happens lets just accept it as part of the game

to say you wont stop blatent diving and cheating in football, and go along with the 'everyone does it, so its ok if we do' is to condone it

What about blocking off in the penalty area, shirt pulling, claiming a corner when you know it is a goal kick, taking dead balls from the wrong place deliberately, appealing for offside when you know it isn't, not owning up when you know you are offside...

Cheating takes many forms, we don't make moral claims for any of the others.

so because a player appeals for an offside decision when he knows its not, thats an excuse for open season on all forms of cheating

theres always big sins and little sins in every thing,
if you are doing 31 in a 30 mile an hour limit, technicaly you are a law breaker, and have commited a driving crime, but its not the same as drinking a bottle of whisky and ploughing into a bus que,
one is a big sin the other not so,

same in football, what Henry did against the Irish with the handball was an absolute disgrace,
i can honestly say that if Villa won the european cup like that i would be embarressed and discussted, i know not every one feels the same way, and its win at all costs, but not for me

what would you say if we druged the water for the opposition to gain a advantage , or as i have said before bribed the ref, you cant just say, 'well they appealed for a corner which wasnt theres' you'd get laughed out of court,

diving is cheating,  and the game does not need it, and the FA should clamp down on it, same as shirt pulling, blocking or whatever else is against the rules,

to give up and say, well every one s a cheat so lets see what we can get away with is the very antithisis of sport

[Chris Smith]

tackling is part and parcel of the game, any book on the techniques of football will have a chapter on tackling, and how to make good tackles.
any one 'kicking lumps' will be cautioned and sent of if neccesary.

you wont find the chapter on Diving, because its not part of the game,

Athletes wont find the chapter on the best drugs to use because its not part of athletics, but we all know it goes on,
 
Cricketers wont find the chapter on spot betting, because its not supposed to be part of the game, but it still happens,
what do we do just say, well we know it all happens lets just accept it as part of the game

to say you wont stop blatent diving and cheating in football, and go along with the 'everyone does it, so its ok if we do' is to condone it

What about blocking off in the penalty area, shirt pulling, claiming a corner when you know it is a goal kick, taking dead balls from the wrong place deliberately, appealing for offside when you know it isn't, not owning up when you know you are offside...

Cheating takes many forms, we don't make moral claims for any of the others.

so because a player appeals for an offside decision when he knows its not, thats an excuse for open season on all forms of cheating

theres always big sins and little sins in every thing,
if you are doing 31 in a 30 mile an hour limit, technicaly you are a law breaker, and have commited a driving crime, but its not the same as drinking a bottle of whisky and ploughing into a bus que,
one is a big sin the other not so,

same in football, what Henry did against the Irish with the handball was an absolute disgrace,
i can honestly say that if Villa won the european cup like that i would be embarressed and discussted, i know not every one feels the same way, and its win at all costs, but not for me

what would you say if we druged the water for the opposition to gain a advantage , or as i have said before bribed the ref, you cant just say, 'well they appealed for a corner which wasnt theres' you'd get laughed out of court,

diving is cheating,  and the game does not need it, and the FA should clamp down on it, same as shirt pulling, blocking or whatever else is against the rules,

to give up and say, well every one s a cheat so lets see what we can get away with is the very antithisis of sport

Who is advocating giving up?

I'm saying that the moral indignation about this form of cheating but not others is stupid and hypocritical.

The only reason that this is such an issue is because the British view is that it is somehow unmanly to cheat in this way yet less bad to cheat by other means. The net result of claiming an offside that isn't is a feee kick, the same as claiming a free kick when you haven't been fouled; so they are in effect the same offence. To claim one as better than the other makes no sense.

Why do you think sports have refs or umpires? If players weren't trying to get away with whatever they could there'd be no need.

[pedro25]

He dived into the foul, if he stayed on his feet he would have had less chance of injury.  Some fouls on Ash are cynical, most just clumsy

[Olneythelonely]

Except there was contact between Young and and the defender, there wasn't between Pennant and Petrov.

Disagree.  The replays clearly showed that at the point where Young launched himself towards the ground there was no contact.  The referee was correct in his punishment.

Is there not a difference between diving to the ground without contact and drawing contact (of which there definitely was some) from a defender. Half the time, if Young stayed on his feet he'd end up injured because of "cheating" defenders.

[Olneythelonely]

He dived into the foul, if he stayed on his feet he would have had less chance of injury.  Some fouls on Ash are cynical, most just clumsy

How would he have had more chance on injury by minimising contact?

Edit.

[PaulTheVillan]

He'll go down, roll around, get up and limp around for a few minutes. Then he'll be ok.
He does it every game.

[pedro25]

He dived towards the foul, if a big defender charged him when he was on two feet he would be far more stable than if he clattered through him while he was mid air and completely off balance.  If you want to avoid that type of challenge you hit the brakes or try and side step it, you dont fling yourself at it.

[cheltenhamlion]

Yes he is a diver. That is all.

[stevenjos]

Yup he's a diver. dont think he's going to change either

[The Situation]

Me and you have made the best posts in this thread.

That's rather presumptious of you, personally I don't think much of your posts at all, especially as you have used the word "yawnz", At least you haven't used "lolwut" in this thread yet.

TECHNICIALLY it is cheating when defenders are constantly hacking Ash (it's funny how some people in this thread don't notice and realise that Ash takes a lot of shit off defenders, they only highlight his 'diving' yawnz), because in the laws of the game hacking and trying to paralyse a player's lower-body is not permitted. It goes both ways ya know.

Fouls are punished by free-kicks, penalties and sometimes bookings, if Ash stopped hurling himself into the air before he is even touched then he wouldn't have a reputation for diving.

Sorry if my posts aren't good enough for you, I did get an A in my English G.C.S.E's though.

Chris Smith kinda took the words out of my mouth when he responded to this quote. There are loads and loads of blatant fouls that go unpunished... do you remember when Nigel De Thug crippled Ben Arfa's legs a couple of weeks ago? I'd say that is a hell of a lot worse than Ash going to ground despite his shirt being pulled or getting clipped by a defender.

Besides, how many times do I have to say that Ash only has a small frame and just a small knock will knock him down - he can't help it.

[pedro25]

If Ben Arfa had got straight up no one would have ever mentioned that challenge, as there are worse challenges every week in the Prem.  It was a poor challenge, but it was one footed along the ground, if we wipe out that sort of challenge I think it would be a poorer game to watch.