A selling club.

[Dante Lavelli]

It may not be a bad thing that we're perceived by the media as a selling club (media, not players), as otherwise I'd imagine a lot/most clubs would be using Milner's fee as the benchmark for us making signings.

Proof, if ever it was needed that the media are actually in cahoots, driven by an overwhelming desire to turn Villa into the next barca.

[sfx412]

Martin may have bought some players late in the window, but he also had a couple in earlier.  So whay was that not the case this year is the better question.

Why do people ignore the fact we bought Ireland ?

No, but some do seem to forget the (relatively) early deals for the likes of Downing, NRC, etc. when postulating that Martin ONLY bought at the end of the window.

No to what exactly ? Did we buy Ireland before he ran off? You said reading above why didn't he buy early this season is the better question, but he DID, didn't he?

Who is suggesting he ONLY bought late on, anyway? I'm not, but I am suggesting he bought late on more than not and I'd have expected him to do again this summer had he stayed and faced the music.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Yes, he appears to like and rate O'Neill - is that not allowed now or is there an H & V Fatwa out on him? It seems were getting back into the territory of trying to dismiss the opinions of anyone who doesn't adhere 100% to the party line as worthless.

Oh come on Chris, that's exactly the tactic you reguarly used if somebody was even slightly in disagreement to whatever the club did, now you've done a vicars collar u turn which coincides with the exact point that MON left.

[Villa'Zawg]

No, but some do seem to forget the (relatively) early deals for the likes of Downing, NRC, etc. when postulating that Martin ONLY bought at the end of the window.

Not sure who says he only bought at the end of the window, but VD highlighted that the "vast majority" of deals were before the last 3 weeks of summer window, which is simply not the case. Yes, there were early deals, but there were just as many late deals (10 that I can think of right now that happened within 3 weeks of the end of the season).

I was specifically referring to players we bought and we've bought 7 players in the last 3 weeks of the summer transfer window according to Soccerbase.com. I'm guessing you're including loan deals and free agents, which I would imagine usually occur at the end of or after transfer windows for most deals. I suppose if I'd been including all deals I'd have just said majority of players rather vast majority. Are you happy enough with that?

[Villa'Zawg]

Martin may have bought some players late in the window, but he also had a couple in earlier.  So whay was that not the case this year is the better question.

Why do people ignore the fact we bought Ireland ?

No, but some do seem to forget the (relatively) early deals for the likes of Downing, NRC, etc. when postulating that Martin ONLY bought at the end of the window.

No to what exactly ? Did we buy Ireland before he ran off? You said reading above why didn't he buy early this season is the better question, but he DID, didn't he?

Who is suggesting he ONLY bought late on, anyway? I'm not, but I am suggesting he bought late on more than not and I'd have expected him to do again this summer had he stayed and faced the music.

He didn't buy late on more than not. He also didn't buy Ireland.

[kippaxvilla2]

I have to agree with what Chris is saying which kind of scares me.

The Board pissing vinegar and blaming the timing of the departure is a predictable response.  But, did they not have a notice clause in his contract that they should/could have enforced to make him work notice whilst a replacement was found?  If they didn't they should have done.

And, we are a selling club at the moment.  Quite simply we employed a sell to buy policy in the summer.  I asked at the time, but can anyone recall a club in the modern transfer era going through a main window without buying a single player (excluding a makeweight).

[Merv]

What we can comfortably say is that great swathes of the press are unable to given any accurate analysis, given how little detail they are aware of about Aston Villa.

Yep. I really rate Patrick Barclay as a journalist, he's one of the few I take notice of (Winter and Samuel too, and Jonathan Northcroft is pretty good too). Haven't yet read his latest piece. But it's getting on for six weeks since O'Neill quit, and we haven't, as yet, heard a definitive reason why he did go. None of the journalists have managed to categorically nail it down.

[Ger Regan]

I was specifically referring to players we bought and we've bought 7 players in the last 3 weeks of the summer transfer window according to Soccerbase.com. I'm guessing you're including loan deals and free agents, which I would imagine usually occur at the end of or after transfer windows for most deals. I suppose if I'd been including all deals I'd have just said majority of players rather vast majority. Are you happy enough with that?

Davies (while a loan signing to begin with that was just for tax reasons, wasn't it?)
Milner
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Cuellar
Knight
Carson
Petrov (granted, the first season shouldn't really count)
Shorey
Salifou


There's also quite a number of players just outside the 3 weeks as well. All in all I believe that his reputation for late dealings is reasonably accurate, as while the transfer deadline is the end of august / early september, the season starts well before that. I think most people would agree that it is pretty important for new signings to have had some pre-season to get familiar with a new club, and in a lot of cases, O'Neill's tardiness did not allow that. In fact, even when things were all rosy, this was a constant source of frustration.

[kippaxvilla2]

What we can comfortably say is that great swathes of the press are unable to given any accurate analysis, given how little detail they are aware of about Aston Villa.

Yep. I really rate Patrick Barclay as a journalist, he's one of the few I take notice of (Winter and Samuel too, and Jonathan Northcroft is pretty good too). Haven't yet read his latest piece. But it's getting on for six weeks since O'Neill quit, and we haven't, as yet, heard a definitive reason why he did go. None of the journalists have managed to categorically nail it down.

It could be worse, we could have regular arse licking O'Leary pieces from Oliver Holt.

[Merv]

And, we are a selling club at the moment.  Quite simply we employed a sell to buy policy in the summer.  I asked at the time, but can anyone recall a club in the modern transfer era going through a main window without buying a single player (excluding a makeweight).

Everton signed Beckford on a free this summer, that's all. Didn't buy anyone.

If we were genuinely a selling club now, I think we'd have been raided over the summer and Ashley Young, Gabby, and one or two others would be long gone. Selling out of favour players and James Milner for a hugely extortionate fee (and getting a very good player in return) does not make us a 'selling club'. It's another over-used term in football, much like 'great player'.

[kippaxvilla2]

You can't seriously be suggesting we weren't employing a sell to buy policy in the summer?  By definition that makes us a selling club at the moment.  I stress at the moment.  Why else did MO'N leave?  He didn't grasp the need to reduce the wage bill - in any language that makes us a selling club.  Obviously if they had sold all the crown jewels at once, there would have been a backlash that they would not have been able to sustain. 

[ktvillan]

We are all expecting to bring players in during January, until we do we're in net profit this year so are a selling club.

That (rather feeble) definition of "selling club" would mean that Arsenal have been a selling club for a fair chunk of Wenger's reign.  It also probably still includes Man Yoo since the sale of the ladyboy.  Not bad company I'd say.

[Villa'Zawg]

I was specifically referring to players we bought and we've bought 7 players in the last 3 weeks of the summer transfer window according to Soccerbase.com. I'm guessing you're including loan deals and free agents, which I would imagine usually occur at the end of or after transfer windows for most deals. I suppose if I'd been including all deals I'd have just said majority of players rather vast majority. Are you happy enough with that?

Davies (while a loan signing to begin with that was just for tax reasons, wasn't it?)
Milner
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Cuellar
Knight
Carson
Petrov (granted, the first season shouldn't really count)
Shorey
Salifou


There's also quite a number of players just outside the 3 weeks as well. All in all I believe that his reputation for late dealings is reasonably accurate, as while the transfer deadline is the end of august / early september, the season starts well before that. I think most people would agree that it is pretty important for new signings to have had some pre-season to get familiar with a new club, and in a lot of cases, O'Neill's tardiness did not allow that. In fact, even when things were all rosy, this was a constant source of frustration.

I didn't include Davies, Shorey and L Young as they are listed as having been purchased more than 3 weeks before the transfer deadline, I missed Cuellar.

All clubs buy players in the final weeks of the transfer window, we naturally notice it more with Villa but I don't think we are much different to other similar clubs. A quick glance at Liverpool, Spurs and Man City transfer shows similar numbers of late transfers.

[Ger Regan]

I didn't include Davies, Shorey and L Young as they are listed as having been purchased more than 3 weeks before the transfer deadline, I missed Cuellar.

All clubs buy players in the final weeks of the transfer window, we naturally notice it more with Villa but I don't think we are much different to other similar clubs. A quick glance at Liverpool, Spurs and Man City transfer shows similar numbers of late transfers.

Apologies about Shorey, as he was a rushed transfer because of Bouma I instinctively though he was a late signing, but apparently it was 7th August when he signed. I didn't mention Luke though. Davies most certainly was bought at the end of august, it's just that he only officially became a permanent villa player until the next summer.

I know that late transfers are not just a villa phenomena, but I would only suggest that the percentage of signings that happened in, say, August, during O'Neill's tenure would be higher than the league average (and believe me, while I like to skive off work as much as possible I have no intention of trying to work out the different percentages!).

[Merv]

You can't seriously be suggesting we weren't employing a sell to buy policy in the summer?  By definition that makes us a selling club at the moment.  I stress at the moment.  Why else did MO'N leave?  He didn't grasp the need to reduce the wage bill - in any language that makes us a selling club.  Obviously if they had sold all the crown jewels at once, there would have been a backlash that they would not have been able to sustain. 

I'm serious. Look at my face. This 'sell to buy' policy... the board had obviously demanded to know why half a first team squad - all of whom other than Wilfred Bouma bought by Martin O'Neill - had been all but ostracized from the picture and were sitting around on £30k plus a week, burning money. I welcomed the approach to sell the players who had been deemed to have no future, and weren't in the starting X1, probably wouldn't have been in the starting X1 ever again under MON. That doesn't make us a selling club, but a sensible club, looking to sell the players we don't want anymore.

We sold one first teamer, and we sold him for a ridiculous price, and to the only club in world football who would offer that kind of money - almost certainly at the only time they would offer that kind of money. That, to my mind, doesn't make us a selling club. We start happily offloading Ashley, Gabby, Albrighton, Downing over the next couple of years as soon as a decent offer comes in then yes, we're a selling club.

West Ham, with their declaration that all their players (other than Parker) were for sale? That's a selling club. Blackburn - they'll always - always - cash in on their players. They're a selling club.

Liverpool sold one of their best players this summer, got a good fee in return. I wouldn't class them as a selling club.