Current media comments towards us

[pauliewalnuts]

I heard us described today as an absolute embarrassment, by a journalist on the radio

Which journalist was that?

[Irreverent ad]

I heard us described today as an absolute embarrassment, by a journalist on the radio

Which journo gibbo?

[ktvillan]

I take your point about the timing Pelty -  It certainly made it difficult to even consider Hughes and Hodgson (who would probably have gone to Liverpool anyway) and probably Jol who was close to taking the Fulham job but probably thought it too late to ditch Ajax by the time we were looking.   I'd like to think we at least approached him nonetheless.  And it's worth bearing in mind though that often a big pot of financial compensation has been known to alleviate many a "timing difficulty".

[pauliewalnuts]

I take your point about the timing Pelty -  It certainly made it difficult to even consider Hughes and Hodgson (who would probably have gone to Liverpool anyway) and probably Jol who was close to taking the Fulham job but probably thought it too late to ditch Ajax by the time we were looking.   I'd like to think we at least approached him nonetheless.  And it's worth bearing in mind though that often a big pot of financial compensation has been known to alleviate many a "timing difficulty".

I can't believe anyone would not recognise that it is much, much harder to find a manager five days before the start of the season than, say, five days after the end of the season.

You don't just have to convince them to want the job, you have to convince them to want it enough to be willing to shit on their current employers, too.

Whilst I think they made a bit of a dogs dinner of the last five weeks, I do think they got the best man they could have got in Houllier.

[pelty]

I take your point about the timing Pelty -  It certainly made it difficult to even consider Hughes and Hodgson (who would probably have gone to Liverpool anyway) and probably Jol who was close to taking the Fulham job but probably thought it too late to ditch Ajax by the time we were looking.   I'd like to think we at least approached him nonetheless.  And it's worth bearing in mind though that often a big pot of financial compensation has been known to alleviate many a "timing difficulty".

Not in these instances. Money was not the issue for any of them.

[KevinGage]

It would have also thrown up the sceanrio of "They've left their current club in the shit when we came calling.  Could they do the same to us at a later date?"

In the case of Moyes and Jol, it's very hard to argue that we would be a huge step up at the minute anyway.

A smaller club might have felt it would be wrong to deny a manager such an opportunity. But Everton are about on a par. They (unlike us) convinced their best player to stay and Moyes is building something there. The way they played v us this season was in marked contrast to a few years ago; passing, movement and imagination. They've definitely missed a trick in not signing a forward this summer though (or a decent one anyroad, I know they signed Beckford).

As for Jol, he's managing one of the most famous sides in Europe -probably still the most popular club in his homeland- and feels he has unfinished business there this season re the Eredivisie. The little matter of Real Madrid and AC Milan in the CL might have helped persuade him to stay too.

That's not to say that the above might not be available at a later date though. Moyes might get frustrated at the glass ceiling at Everton - how higher can he get them on such tight resources realistically?  And If Jol has a decent year or two in Holland he might feel that's job done.

Both might have expressed a degree of interest in the job - just not now. The hope is that GH leaves us in relatively good shape, so that if in a year or two we ask again we might well get a different response.

[dave.woodhall]

I think both managers are, for different reasons, giving their clubs another season. If Gezza doesn't work out expect a massive attempt to get either of them in the summer.

[Risso]

"Your last little snippet was, with respect, a kop out. If you've got answers to his points, then let's hear them. I'd be really interested to know why we had to sell Milner and why we haven't signed anyone. If there are good reasons then why hasn't anyone bothered to let us know?"

A fair criticism. I removed that portion of the post not to "kop out," but because I think it would go unheeded. Also, I am concerned about saying too much. Let me say this: I think Swain has it right in saying that the board allowed MON too much sway. Right or wrong, this is Randy's way. He hires the people he thinks are best and let's them get on with it; to my mind, MON needed more oversight, but look at how MON reacted when steps in this direction were made!

RE: Milner, I want to be careful. Let me put it this way, no one was more surprised by the comments made by MON in mid-July than the board *and* Milner. To my knowledge, things were NOT in motion prior to those comments. Why they were made? Who knows?

That's my main criticism of Mr Lerner to be honest.  Yes I was a massive critic of O'Neill, but in the final analysis it was Randy signing the cheques and giving O'Neill more or less carte blanche to do what he wanted.  Having said that, for many years under Ellis all we really wanted was an owner prepared to back his manager's judgement to the hilt.

My main worry now is that O'Neill wasted so much money that he's effectively stymied our ambition for good.  Did the alarm bells not start ringing at board level, when having bought defenders like Cuellar, Davies and Shorey, O'Neill then went out and still had to spend millions on Dunne, Collins and Warnock?  Or when we effectively made the 31 year old Heskey our highest paid player, despite him having a less than brilliant reputation?

I think the last few weeks have been a bit rubbish, but as long as Randy and the General are still in it, both in heart and with finance, then I think having Houllier in place, long term we'll be all the stronger.

Anyway Pelty, thanks for all the replies, it's made for interesting reading.  I imagine the General is glad of a bit of a reprieve as well!

[Risso]

I think both managers are, for different reasons, giving their clubs another season. If Gezza doesn't work out expect a massive attempt to get either of them in the summer.

Unless we have a truly disasterous season, I think Houllier deserves at least all of next season.  He's hardly taken over in ideal circumstances, and would need a summer transfer window to try and bring in some of his old players.

[pelty]

"That's my main criticism of Mr Lerner to be honest.  Yes I was a massive critic of O'Neill, but in the final analysis it was Randy signing the cheques and giving O'Neill more or less carte blanche to do what he wanted.  Having said that, for many years under Ellis all we really wanted was an owner prepared to back his manager's judgement to the hilt."

There is truth in this, but Randy was trying to be precisely that type of owner. Indeed, that is how he is on both continents and, for me, it is to be preferred. I say this as a Washington Redskins fan (an American football team) where we have an owner who meddled in player personnel affairs for an entire decade and really set the progress of the team back. The good news is that in the NFL, progress can be made over 2-3 years that allows a team to compete for or win a Super Bowl. The salary cap, the draft, etc. make it easier in that regard. Anyway, a meddling owner could really set a team back in (real) football as it is much more difficult to recover it seems.

"My main worry now is that O'Neill wasted so much money that he's effectively stymied our ambition for good.  Did the alarm bells not start ringing at board level, when having bought defenders like Cuellar, Davies and Shorey, O'Neill then went out and still had to spend millions on Dunne, Collins and Warnock?  Or when we effectively made the 31 year old Heskey our highest paid player, despite him having a less than brilliant reputation?"

Of course! Why do you think the the discussions about all these matters cropped up in the first place. What was worse is that several of those players were not even in the squad, much less seeing time on the pitch!

I think the last few weeks have been a bit rubbish, but as long as Randy and the General are still in it, both in heart and with finance, then I think having Houllier in place, long term we'll be all the stronger.

Anyway Pelty, thanks for all the replies, it's made for interesting reading.  I imagine the General is glad of a bit of a reprieve as well!

Well, I think it is fair to say that all parties are "in it." From what I have been told, GH will be given every opportunity to succeed.

[Lee]

Just read that article, who cares what some yam yam writes about us. The thing that people need to remember when reading this rubbish, it is just one persons opinion. If a bloke in the pub said the same, it would be quickly dismissed, and you would move on to another subject, because some journo writes it we should take it seriously?
It is like Michael O Leary of Ryanair, he just comes out with shit so people are talking about his airline, we are now reading the local yam yam papers web site, really, who cares.
What did they used to say, todays newspapers are tomorrows chip papers

Swain is not a Yam Yam, but lets not worry about the chip on your shoulder shall we.


His article above, is pretty much bang on. If in your opinion it's not, well pray tell what you disagree with

Firstly, not sure how me calling someone a yam yam equates to a chip on my shoulder. If i am wrong and he indeed is not a yam yam, then i am mistaken, if in fact he is, then i am right.

Whilst i am not arguing the thrust of the article, there are a number of points i agree with, but some of the points he makes are rubbish in my opinion.

"while Villa are looking more and more like the new Blues. All gaffes and own goals.
Lerner needs to get a grip more quickly than his chosen manager has decided to.
Past evidence does not fill me with much hope he will do so".

I do not agree that GH has been treating the job with disregard.
I also do not agree with the view that Villa are in the hands of " hopelessly naive and ill equipped administrators".
If that is what you think of Randy and the General, so be it, you can carry on reading and agreeing with Swain, i wont, and that is my point, i don't have to agree with one journos opinion of something.

I don't know how i got sucked into this, i should have just said Fuck 'em (the yam yams).

The chip was there as far as I could see, "some yam yam journo" etc, like he has no right to comment, when if you read some of the posts above, you'll see that he is more than qualified.

If you actually READ what he says, he actually sums the last few weeks up to a tea. The Board have been great for this Club, but it doesn't mean that everything that they do is always right. Hence, we see a balanced article.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

As Peter W and Chris Smith both touched on, the communication has been the real problem. It's fine saying a statement from the club was issued in the middle of August but the reality is it was never going to be enough. Even the Houllier press conference was poorly presented. Sometimes it not the news that gets people upset, more the way it's delivered.

It's easy to say journalist X has got it wrong but the vacuum of information was never going to help. It's one thing Randy avoiding the press, it's quite another for the club to do the same.

[DB]

If Randy / the board don't make any statements then the press make their own assumptions, mor often than not that are not quite 'right'.

[old man villa fan]

That's something I have no doubt about. This media-spun perception that O'Neill quit in a fury because the goalposts moved at the last minute with the Milner deal and subsequent use of the funds... I've never bought that. It was publicly known that City had bid for Milner in May - and that was when it was publicly revealed. They may have signalled their intention or made a bid before then. So, to my mind, O'Neill exactly what the picture was regarding transfers, available funds. My hunch is he still expected to be able to spend despite not selling on those six players identified, and that's what triggered this. We'll (I'll) probably never know for sure but that would be my guess.

Anyway, not long to go now. Roll on Monday and the start of the GH era.

That has been my feelings on the situation as well Merv.

I can imagine it would have hit MON hard to sell players that he had spent a considerable amount on at far reduced fees.  It is almost an admission of failure.

Perhaps there was method in MON's madness of signing players late in transfer windows, knowing that there was insufficient time to sell others.

I just get the feeling that MON's budget for wages of incoming players was going to be the same as that of the players going out with Randy willing to invest more in transfer fees e.g. sell Heskey for, say, £2m and buy somebody for £10m as long as the wages were no more than Heskey's.  This would have left MON in an unusual position that didn't fit his modus operandi.  Perhaps he even tried to call Randys bluff and failed.

[ROBBO]

Problem is, as is usual with the press, he has it wrong on the KMac situation; KMac was not pushed into anything. Swain does not know what went on behind the scenes anymore than any other journalist in  the country nor does he understand the intricacies and difficulties of identifying and finding a manager when your previous one leaves five days before the opening of the season. As per usual on these sites, sadly, if it is written in black and white, it must be true.

And ROBBO, based on what evidence would you replace Faulkner. What has he done to deserve the sack? Give specific examples, please.

I don't need to give specifics all that needs to be said is with him as CEO we have appeared rudderless on more than one occassion. The CEO has all over responsibility for the running of the club, he has to be across everything, this isn't personal it's just that someone with a sound knowledge and background in the game would have been an advantage. I am one who thinks it's agood thing Oneills gone and it will take time to settle things down but leadership starts at the top.