Thank you Mr O'Neill

[pauliewalnuts]

Almost three weeks in I think we need to stop looking at the timing on MON's departure and more to the lack of a new man being appointed as our biggest problem right now.

Which ignores the fact that had he not left when he did, we wouldn't be trying to appoint a new manager at the worst time possible in the first place

[ktvillan]

I didn't like O'Neill as a person and said so a few times on here even before he did the dirty on us.  I always thought he had a nasty, selfish, vindictive side to him.  Events have certainly lent support to that theory.

I can't make my mind up about the squad he left us though.  At first I thought it strong enough to still challenge at the top end, even without Milner, if handled well.  However the more I think about it the more I think O'Neill's MO was based on signing average to good players he could control, and then try to get more than the sum of their parts out of them.  It's beginning to look like he did very well to get that group of players to 6th in 3 successive seasons.  He is undoubtedly good at getting okay players to look better, but I sincerley doubt he could have got us any higher with those type of players and that kind of approach. 

With a few injuries cropping up, and without O'Neill's ability to get more out of less,  the squad suddenly looks a lot more "average" than the recent league finishes suggested. 

The biggest indictment against him is that he seemed to deliberatley plan his walkout for a time when it would prevent us addressing the manager situation and improving on the squad.  That is unforgiveabe and puts him up there with Mr Sugarbags and the man with Maradonna's shirt amongst the worst of Villa villains in my book.

[Concrete John]

As convenient as it is, we're going to have stope blaming the previous manager eventually. The only one's to blame for Sunday and last night's debacle are the players and KMac. My idea of getting back into a game is not throwing a striker out wide and a centre half up front. Sunday league tactics at best, not what you'd expect from a coach of a Premiership side.

And why, then, is a coach with no managerial experience being forced into a position where he makes such basic mistakes?

MON is going to remain at blame for the wider turmoil at the club for a fair while yet, I'm afraid.

Manager and entire coaching staff gone five days before the start of the season. We now have no manager, we don't have enough coaches  - they said last night, we physically do not have enough coaches to be coaching all the various teams at the moment - the transfer window is about to slam shut, we've had some duff results, and a chairman who has never appointed a football club manager in his life is being forced to find a replacement at short notice.

MON didn't directly cause the Newcastle debacle, and he didn't lose the match last night, but you'd have to be naive to think that these results aren't reflecting the utter chaos at the club at the moment. He really could not have caused much more damage than that if he'd tried.

Throw in the "performances" last night and last weekend of some of the very same expensive, high earning, unused players which he bought and was asked to do something about, refused, and left over, and it doesn't reflect too well on him.

Martin left at a bad time, we all get that.  But do we hide behind that excuse or deal with it?  Not having enough coaches is a problem caused by MON, but why not get someone like Staunton (previously worked with K-Mac) or Dean Saunders to come in on say a 1 month contract to ease the short term problem?

Once a new manager is appointed he'll still have a squad that finished 6th and reached a cup final to work with.  That's when blaming MON should stop!!

[Nev]

Unless I've missed something, we still don't know why O'Neil left. We do know the timing was poor to say the least, but until we know the full facts condemming the previous manager is a waste of time.
If it was a petulant act at not being given what he wanted well, maybe a proportion of the abuse on here is justified and O'Neil must take some of the blame for the state that the club is in.
On the other hand, if he left on a matter of principle then the timing is irrelevant.

By the way, if we are looking for a good manager that doesn't make bad buys, that doesn't make tactical cock-ups, that doesn't have a huge ego, that doesn't make mistakes then we are wasting are time.

[jonzy85]

As convenient as it is, we're going to have stope blaming the previous manager eventually. The only one's to blame for Sunday and last night's debacle are the players and KMac. My idea of getting back into a game is not throwing a striker out wide and a centre half up front. Sunday league tactics at best, not what you'd expect from a coach of a Premiership side.

And why, then, is a coach with no managerial experience being forced into a position where he makes such basic mistakes?

MON is going to remain at blame for the wider turmoil at the club for a fair while yet, I'm afraid.

Manager and entire coaching staff gone five days before the start of the season. We now have no manager, we don't have enough coaches  - they said last night, we physically do not have enough coaches to be coaching all the various teams at the moment - the transfer window is about to slam shut, we've had some duff results, and a chairman who has never appointed a football club manager in his life is being forced to find a replacement at short notice.

MON didn't directly cause the Newcastle debacle, and he didn't lose the match last night, but you'd have to be naive to think that these results aren't reflecting the utter chaos at the club at the moment. He really could not have caused much more damage than that if he'd tried.

Throw in the "performances" last night and last weekend of some of the very same expensive, high earning, unused players which he bought and was asked to do something about, refused, and left over, and it doesn't reflect too well on him.

Perhaps it's time for certain people to put their unadulterated hatred for MON, which was there well before he left, aside and have a look at the bigger picture.

Firstly, we still dont know the facts. My gut feeling is that MON was told no more transfers til we sell or something along those lines and decided to walk.

I personally feel that he should have seen out the season with us considering it was his squad that he built.

But what doesnt add up is why he didnt leave in May. The only thing that makes sense to me was that there were assurances made that funds were there to buy players and then come AUgust no players had been sold and therefore no transfer funds.

Anyway, that is all conjecture. We may never find out the full story. But to 100% blame MON and absolve Randy & the board makes no sense to me.

MON left because he didnt think he could take us any further. It was a decision for himself, as is his right to do.

He keft us with a squad of players who had established themselves in the top 6 of the league and legitimate contenders for top 4.

Without adding to the squad it is unlikely we will maintain that.

However, the squad he left SHOULD NOT lose 6-0 to Newcastle away and throw away leads twice at home in Europe in the Preliminary Rounds.

MON's departure and timing thereof, will affect our chances of challenging for top 4, especially given the slow response to appointing the new man.

It is not an excuse for this week's debacle.

[TimTheVillain]

I didn't like him as a person either.

He's a 'smoke and mirrors' man, never gives a straight answer.

Always litigating, always bigger than the club, what with his rolling fucking contracts.

Well rid.

Timing has all the hallmarks of the kind of man he is.

[pauliewalnuts]

Perhaps it's time for certain people to put their unadulterated hatred for MON, which was there well before he left, aside and have a look at the bigger picture.

Who is that referring to?

Not me, I hope, as you're miles from the truth.

[jonzy85]

I didn't like O'Neill as a person and said so a few times on here even before he did the dirty on us.  I always thought he had a nasty, selfish, vindictive side to him.  Events have certainly lent support to that theory.

I can't make my mind up about the squad he left us though.  At first I thought it strong enough to still challenge at the top end, even without Milner, if handled well.  However the more I think about it the more I think O'Neill's MO was based on signing average to good players he could control, and then try to get more than the sum of their parts out of them.  It's beginning to look like he did very well to get that group of players to 6th in 3 successive seasons.  He is undoubtedly good at getting okay players to look better, but I sincerley doubt he could have got us any higher with those type of players and that kind of approach.  [b/]

With a few injuries cropping up, and without O'Neill's ability to get more out of less,  the squad suddenly looks a lot more "average" than the recent league finishes suggested. 

The biggest indictment against him is that he seemed to deliberatley plan his walkout for a time when it would prevent us addressing the manager situation and improving on the squad.  That is unforgiveabe and puts him up there with Mr Sugarbags and the man with Maradonna's shirt amongst the worst of Villa villains in my book.

I think you've probably summed up MON's reign there in a way. He signed solid if unspectacular players that he felt would do a job for him. Which to a large extent they did.

Take last season, 2 games to go and we were well in the hunt for 4th. We were probably just a 20-goal a season striker away.

So now you look at the squad and wonder can anyone get out of them what MON did?
I'm not too hopeful.

I cant help feeling that MON knew we were that player or 2 short to take us to the next level and when he was not allowed get them he walked.

[eastie]

i wanted him to go but id still like to hear his side of what made him decide to leave when he did-i think theres maybe more than meets the eye.

[jonzy85]

 but why not get someone like Staunton (previously worked with K-Mac) or Dean Saunders to come in on say a 1 month contract to ease the short term problem?

Please tell me your joking or under the influence of some seriously strong drugs!

[Concrete John]

Almost three weeks in I think we need to stop looking at the timing on MON's departure and more to the lack of a new man being appointed as our biggest problem right now.

Which ignores the fact that had he not left when he did, we wouldn't be trying to appoint a new manager at the worst time possible in the first place

The longer we are without a new manager, the weaker the timing argument becomes.  5 days before the season starts means it's difficult, but three weeks later you've had time to make up for that difficulty.

[jonzy85]

Perhaps it's time for certain people to put their unadulterated hatred for MON, which was there well before he left, aside and have a look at the bigger picture.

Who is that referring to?

Not me, I hope, as you're miles from the truth.

Not specifically you, even though you are one of the more voiciferous ones in putting the blame 100% at MON's door and from memory you were not a particularly big fan of his when he was at the club.

[pauliewalnuts]

Perhaps it's time for certain people to put their unadulterated hatred for MON, which was there well before he left, aside and have a look at the bigger picture.

Who is that referring to?

Not me, I hope, as you're miles from the truth.

Not specifically you, even though you are one of the more voiciferous ones in putting the blame 100% at MON's door and from memory you were not a particularly big fan of his when he was at the club.

I didn't like his football, but said hundreds of times I didn't want him sacked (in fact, I argued that sacking him would be madness), I wanted him to sort it out.

I am one of the more vociferous ones in pointing out the shit he's left us in, you're right there.

Unadulterated hatred, though? That's ridiculous.

[sfx412]

when you consider 3 seasons in to Mon's reign some fans were still blaming previous managers for the squads shortcomings, I find it a tad hypocritical that those same people are calling for us to stop blaming a turncoat little shit for leaving us with a reserve team coach who now most see isn't up to it.
The mess the fool left behind will take some time to sort, seasons, especially if Randy does not choose wisely.
To try and shift the blame on to the owners is both pathetic and an afront to a man left with a no win situation and its all thanks to one tiny self centred man.

[OzVilla]

However, the squad he left SHOULD NOT lose 6-0 to Newcastle away and throw away leads twice at home in Europe in the Preliminary Rounds.

MON's departure and timing thereof, will affect our chances of challenging for top 4, especially given the slow response to appointing the new man.

It is not an excuse for this week's debacle.

100% agree, MON left at a shocking time for us but 6-0 and Rapid Vienna collapse is no excuse.  They are supposed to be professionals for fecks sake.