The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[peter w]

I know this sounds a bit like a Man Utd thing to say,
but there's not many/any managers that have ever left Villa and gone on to bigger and better things elsewhere is there ?


Even SGT rein at England was an unmitigated disaster

No he wasn't.

[Damo70]

We went out of the Euros to the host nation and missed out on the World Cup after the wonderful refereeing of the game in Holland if I remember correctly. SGT also took over when the likes of Shilton and Butcher had retired from international football, Robson was as good as finished, Gazza was crocked for most of his reign and Lineker was going downhill too. Also, players like Seaman, Gary Neville, Ince, Anderton and Shearer were yet to reach their full potential. When people give him stick about picking the likes of Curle, Palmer and Thomas they don't take into account his lack of options at the time. He was in charge when the great Liverpool side were past it and United hadn't become the best. The cream of English football at that time was George Graham's Arsenal and Howard Wilkinson's Leeds.

[PeterWithesShin]

We went out of Euro 1992 as we failed to win a match and only scored 1 goal for which SGT does have to take some blame.

Shearer had moved to Blackburn by the time of the '94 qualifiers but had injuries and didn't play in many IIRC, which didn't help SGT. But as shocking as the decision in Holland was it's worth remembering we threw away a 2-0 lead in the home game which would have made a massive difference.

SGT did okay as England manager, not the total failure the media portrayed and he certainly didn't deserve the abuse he suffered, but he was far from a success. The main thing was that in the big games under him England mostly failed.

[ozzjim]

Back to Danny Graham. He played up on his own for Swansea all last season and did well. I think he is actually better at it than Fletcher, who for all his ability in front of goal is a poor footballer. All in all I reckon it will make them stronger. A bit like when Carew got his cock injury in the rocket club and Gabby played on his own for about 10 weeks before the signing of the century arrived to cure all our problems. We did really well in that period building a tight 4-5-1 behind Gabby.

Sunderland don't have the players we had, but they will cobble results together moving away from the 4-4-2 and Graham is better than Fletcher as the 1.

[john e]

I know this sounds a bit like a Man Utd thing to say,
but there's not many/any managers that have ever left Villa and gone on to bigger and better things elsewhere is there ?


Even SGT rein at England was an unmitigated disaster

No he wasn't.


He achieved nothing with England only public humiliation which he didn't deserve
I hated every minute of his England reign because he was abused and treated dreadfully,

He has to take some blame but he had to handle a perfect storm of injuries,retirements, overblown players and a shit hand of quality non of it was his fault, but his time as the England manager was a disaster for him both professionally and personally,

To this day the respect he gains from the footballing world is mainly from Villa and Watford fans, that's fine by me he is the greatest manager since Saunders as far as I'm concerned,
but his greatest achievements were with Aston Villa, which was my point about managers leaving VP and going on to achieve more, it hasn't happened very often

Messed up the quote there, don't know why it came out wrong

[Matt Collins]

I love SGT but he wasn't an England success. Following on from a team that got to the semis of a world cup, his reign didn't feature one win at a tournament.

It also saw us pick players like Andy Sinton and David White while Chris Waddle and Peter Beardsley could not get in the squad. No defence for that unless you win for me.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think if you were to ask most non-biased observers what they thought of SGT's England reign, they'd say it was disappointing, to put it mildly.

[pauliewalnuts]

SGT did okay as England manager, not the total failure the media portrayed and he certainly didn't deserve the abuse he suffered, but he was far from a success. The main thing was that in the big games under him England mostly failed.

He failed to qualify for a world cup, which is probably the ultimate test of his tenure, or at least what most people will judge him by.

[Matt Collins]

SGT was a bit unfortunate that he was very much an old school manager, just as English football started to make the transition to a more technically and tactically sophisticated game. I just remembered Gary Pallister at left back to counter Tore Andre Flo (who promptly switched wings).  Not pretty.

[john e]

So the only managers in living memory to leave Villa and go on to achieve more than they did whilst here are Joe Mercer and Tommy Docherty

[richard moore]

I love SGT but he wasn't an England success. Following on from a team that got to the semis of a world cup, his reign didn't feature one win at a tournament.

It also saw us pick players like Andy Sinton and David White while Chris Waddle and Peter Beardsley could not get in the squad. No defence for that unless you win for me.

Remember singing 'If Sinton plays for England, so can I' one year at Loftus Road - back in the days when they used to put us down the side of the ground rather than behind the goal there

[Lastfootstamper]

I know this sounds a bit like a Man Utd thing to say,
but there's not many/any managers that have ever left Villa and gone on to bigger and better things elsewhere is there ?

Joe Mercer and SGT are the only ones I can think of.

Tommy Docherty.

The Mercer sacking remains as one of the more ignoble lowlights in our club's history.
And surely Docherty ranks amongst the poorest ever manyoo managers, assuming that that's what's implied, taking a club which were European champions just six years earlier (that sounds almost familiar.....) to relegation. One FA Cup eight years after leaving us, hardly resounding success. Didn't overly cover himself in glory between leaving us and rocking up there, either. Style over substance, methinks.

But the opening point is something I've felt for many years, whilst watching not much better than average players and managers ply their trade in the claret and blue; that most fail to grasp that without putting in massive performances, VP is the highest, greatest stage on which they will ever appear. Seize the day, as the Romans would say. Many of them don't appreciate just where they are.

[Steve R]

I think if you were to ask most non-biased observers what they thought of SGT's England reign, they'd say it was disappointing, to put it mildly.

You's have to find one first

[OzVilla]

As has been said, SGT lost the spine of his team twice over.  Shilton, Butcher, Robson and Linekar had all or were about to retire. 

The replacements had little experience but notably Adams (injured and then in prison) Gascoigne (Infamous knee injury and then a broken leg) and Shearer (Cruciate knee injury) were lost for the majority of his WC qualifying campaign.

I'd defy any Manager to deal with that lot and an openly hostile press because you weren't their pick to start with.

[dave.woodhall]

One thing that rarely gets mentioned about Sir Graham is that because of the European ban hardly any of his team had any experience of playing abroad.