The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[peter w]

Oliver Holt on Twitter.

Sunderland in real trouble now. Ellis Short didn't really back O'Neill in the summer.

The problem with the press is that they only equate 'backing a manager' with giving them a limitless pot to spend on limitless players. Same with regards to managers that they like - its like they will always use money as an excuse and not a manager to cut his cloth accordingly.

[hawkeye]

Stat of the day, Sunderland have won thier last 3 PL games against 10 men,it is 26 games sine they beat a team with 11 on the pitch.

[hilts_coolerking]

"...am I full of self doubt? Let me tell you something, I've been in the game a long time, and I've never felt any self doubt."

That in a nutshell is why he got so far and no further.  The absolutely unshakeable belief that his way is not just the right way but the only way.

[Villadroid]

"...am I full of self doubt? Let me tell you something, I've been in the game a long time, and I've never felt any self doubt."

That in a nutshell is why he got so far and no further.  The absolutely unshakeable belief that his way is not just the right way but the only way.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

[ozzjim]

"...am I full of self doubt? Let me tell you something, I've been in the game a long time, and I've never felt any self doubt."

That in a nutshell is why he got so far and no further.  The absolutely unshakeable belief that his way is not just the right way but the only way.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

You end up as Mike Bassett. Interesting comparison.

[hilts_coolerking]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

I imagine that's on his business card.

[pauliewalnuts]

Oliver Holt on Twitter.

Sunderland in real trouble now. Ellis Short didn't really back O'Neill in the summer.

That is a gloriously ridiculous tweet. The 25 million quid on Fletcher and Johnson to add to the free signing of Cuellar on big wages clearly not enough. OR maybe it was simply spent as well as he spent money here.

Okay I'll bite!

But Villa have spent £50m since MON left and how that's working?

And what's the relevance of that to MON's current troubles?

I seem to recall that half of the 50m was spent making sure we didn't get relegated a few months after he'd flounced off, leaving us right in the shit.

[SoccerHQ]

Stat of the day, Sunderland have won thier last 3 PL games against 10 men,it is 26 games sine they beat a team with 11 on the pitch.

They got lucky against Fulham as Fulham were pretty good with 10 men.

[Villadroid]

Oliver Holt on Twitter.

Sunderland in real trouble now. Ellis Short didn't really back O'Neill in the summer.

That is a gloriously ridiculous tweet. The 25 million quid on Fletcher and Johnson to add to the free signing of Cuellar on big wages clearly not enough. OR maybe it was simply spent as well as he spent money here.

Okay I'll bite!

But Villa have spent £50m since MON left and how that's working?

And what's the relevance of that to MON's current troubles?

I seem to recall that half of the 50m was spent making sure we didn't get relegated a few months after he'd flounced off, leaving us right in the shit.

Someone was claiming that MON spending £25m at Sunderland and struggling was failure. So I merely applied the same simplistic analysis to Villa spending £50m.

Suddenly the criteria changed.

[hilts_coolerking]

Someone was claiming that MON spending £25m at Sunderland and struggling was failure. So I merely applied the same simplistic analysis to Villa spending £50m.

Suddenly the criteria changed.

I think the argument was:

O'Neill's struggling at Sunderland
- because he wasn't backed in the summer
He spent £25M in the summer
- so what, Villa have spent £50M since he left.

The fourth point is of course irrelevant to the fact that O'Neill is struggling at Sunderland.

[silhillvilla]

His post match interview on 5live earlier was painful.

[pauliewalnuts]

Oliver Holt on Twitter.

Sunderland in real trouble now. Ellis Short didn't really back O'Neill in the summer.

That is a gloriously ridiculous tweet. The 25 million quid on Fletcher and Johnson to add to the free signing of Cuellar on big wages clearly not enough. OR maybe it was simply spent as well as he spent money here.

Okay I'll bite!

But Villa have spent £50m since MON left and how that's working?

And what's the relevance of that to MON's current troubles?

I seem to recall that half of the 50m was spent making sure we didn't get relegated a few months after he'd flounced off, leaving us right in the shit.

Someone was claiming that MON spending £25m at Sunderland and struggling was failure. So I merely applied the same simplistic analysis to Villa spending £50m.

Suddenly the criteria changed.

Well, not really, as it is a totally spurious comparison. People are talking about him struggling at Sunderland, what Villa have done since then is of no relevance whatsoever.

Although, even if it was of relevance, MON has spent 25m having been at Sunderland exactly one year, whereas he left Villa 2.5 years ago.

[PeterWithesShin]

Oliver Holt on Twitter.

Sunderland in real trouble now. Ellis Short didn't really back O'Neill in the summer.

That is a gloriously ridiculous tweet. The 25 million quid on Fletcher and Johnson to add to the free signing of Cuellar on big wages clearly not enough. OR maybe it was simply spent as well as he spent money here.

Okay I'll bite!

But Villa have spent £50m since MON left and how that's working?

And what's the relevance of that to MON's current troubles?

I seem to recall that half of the 50m was spent making sure we didn't get relegated a few months after he'd flounced off, leaving us right in the shit.

Someone was claiming that MON spending £25m at Sunderland and struggling was failure. So I merely applied the same simplistic analysis to Villa spending £50m.

Suddenly the criteria changed.

Even though Ozz never mentioned failure? He just pointed out that despite what Holt said MON was backed in the summer.

[pauliewalnuts]

Most managers, if their chairman said "you've got 25m for the summer" (and that's still a decent amount, lest we forget), would think "how can i make this work as best I can" and inevitably look around Europe for some decent deals, to try to get value for money.

What MON did was what he always, always does, look at the obvious, zero-effort options, and buy them, and hang the cost. Johnson and Fletcher are both decent, but if his squad was so poor (as indicated by the suggestion Short needed to back him big), why spunk it all on those two players?

That is O'Neill all over, and that is why he peaked with us.

[eastie]

Martin really is like a prickly old hedgehog when anyone dares to question his ways or criticise him- quite amusing .