The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm probably speaking for myself here but I think some of us who lost faith in MON after Moscow (and had even began to question his methods as early as the summer of 2007 when we made some pretty under-whelming signings) felt reluctant to air criticisms because things were going quite well.

That's the other thing.

At the time, there was also a widely held assumption when people moaned about MON that they wanted him sacked - as if you couldn't criticise a manager without wanting them to get the bullet. Which was, of course, utter nonsense.

[Mister E]

Well obviously Niall hickman is talking bollocks, but it's hard to pick any holes in what MON said.

http://blogs.birminghammail.net/astonvilla/2012/11/re-righting-a-ron-g-martin.html

I'm glad you posted that link, Dave.

[Mister E]

Hmm, I can mainly recollect people being happy with with the good things (exciting counter attacking team full of promise for a couple of years), frustrated with the not-so-great things (slightly dull home games where we lacked the guile to break teams down in a league that increasingly became all too aware of how to nullify our 'plan A') and disgusted with the disgraceful thing (leaving us in the shit the way he did)...
 

This, although his offloading of the good youngsters and their older, more expensive mediocre replacements started to irk me.

But it was the manner of his  departure that was most irritating - spiteful and vindictive, and with no respect for the fans.

[onje_villa]

Quite incredible that he'd use the Programme notes and bulk emails to try and put his point across and belittle his former club. Pathetic, it's positively small time - shame.

[Mister E]

Quite incredible that he'd use the Programme notes and bulk emails to try and put his point across and belittle his former club. Pathetic, it's positively small time - shame.

I didn't read "belittling": I read 'manager defensive and under pressure'.

[ozzjim]

I'm probably speaking for myself here but I think some of us who lost faith in MON after Moscow (and had even began to question his methods as early as the summer of 2007 when we made some pretty under-whelming signings) felt reluctant to air criticisms because things were going quite well.

That's the other thing.

At the time, there was also a widely held assumption when people moaned about MON that they wanted him sacked - as if you couldn't criticise a manager without wanting them to get the bullet. Which was, of course, utter nonsense.

So true. A fair few of us questioned him getting rid of Cahill for Knight, but were essentially told he knows best and we are lucky to have him.

I think we could have achieved a lot more, and more importantly invested a lot better than we did under Martin had we gone for a more "modern" coach.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

i get emails from safc after i bought a scarf for a mackem whose funeral i went to, it went on his coffin as a present from the locals of our pub. however i digress, below is the email i had from mon after yesterdays game.


SUNDERLAND 0 - 1 ASTON VILLA

Dear Mark,

 We didn’t deserve to get beaten.

 We probably should have won the game but the ball just didn’t drop for us today.

We’re not scoring goals, we’ve had people in and around the penalty area, but it just doesn’t seem to be happening for us.

I could not fault the players’ effort whatsoever. I think it was epitomised by a fantastic performance from Lee Cattermole.

 It was as good a performance as I have seen from a player and he didn’t deserve to be on the losing side.

We drove at Villa and tried everything but we were unable to wear them down.

 We need to be resilient. It’s been tough going and we’ve found ourselves in the situation where we’re not getting goals.

You wouldn’t think we would have that problem with all of the attacking players we have in the team.
 We have to stick in at it and we’ll come back from this.

We have to remain strong and be resilient – we’re all in this together.

All the best,

Martin O'Neill

I had one a few years ago that went something like this:

Dear Mark,

 We did deserve to win.

 We probably should have won the game by more but the wind just didn’t drop for us today.

We’re scoring goals, we’ve nobody in and around the penalty area, it just seems to be happening for us.

I could not fault the players’ effort whatsoever. I think it was epitomised by a fantastic performance from Brad Freidel.

It was as good a performance as I have seen from a player and he didn’t deserve to be on the losing side.

They drove at us and tried everything but we were able to wear them down.

We need to stay resilient. It’s been tough going and we’ve found ourselves in the situation where we’re getting goals after 10 minutes.

You wouldn’t think we would have that problem with all of the attacking players we have in the team defending.
We have to stick in at it and we’ll get away with this.

All 14 squad players have to remain strong and be resilient – we’re all in this together, except NRC, Luke Young, Gary Cahill and a few others ( I forget their names).

All the best,

Martin O'Neill

[Percy McCarthy]

I can't see how you were proved correct paulie. The proof would have been if we'd have been struggling or knocked out of the cups early.

What actually happened was that we were in contention for fourth place until the penultimate week of the season, when we played Man City off the park and suffered a very unlucky defeat, and were possibly two atrocious refereeing decisions away from winning two cups.

If we'd have got a decent manager in next instead of the clown that followed who alienated a big part of a squad who had proved very effective, the financial crisis that followed could have been managed much better.

Maybe you're saying what he's doing at Sunderland is your proof, but I don't give a shit about that. I hope that he royally fucks up there and they take up one of the relegation spots if we're still down there in a few months time, but I don't think that proves anything about his time at a different club under different circumstances three years ago.

[PeterWithe]

I liked him, I still do, although he made it difficult to like him the way he left.

[ozzjim]

I can't see how you were proved correct paulie. The proof would have been if we'd have been struggling or knocked out of the cups early.

What actually happened was that we were in contention for fourth place until the penultimate week of the season, when we played Man City off the park and suffered a very unlucky defeat, and were possibly two atrocious refereeing decisions away from winning two cups.

If we'd have got a decent manager in next instead of the clown that followed who alienated a big part of a squad who had proved very effective, the financial crisis that followed could have been managed much better.

Maybe you're saying what he's doing at Sunderland is your proof, but I don't give a shit about that. I hope that he royally fucks up there and they take up one of the relegation spots if we're still down there in a few months time, but I don't think that proves anything about his time at a different club under different circumstances three years ago.

I think it shows how limited he is as a coach in the modern game though Percy, and his final season was as good as it was ever going to get for Villa under MON.

[PaulWinch again]

I think we would have gone further under a more modern thinking coaching. O'Neills tactics and methods could only ever get a team around the top 6 and at an extreme expense.

[Dave]

I'm probably speaking for myself here but I think some of us who lost faith in MON after Moscow (and had even began to question his methods as early as the summer of 2007 when we made some pretty under-whelming signings) felt reluctant to air criticisms because things were going quite well.

That's the other thing.

At the time, there was also a widely held assumption when people moaned about MON that they wanted him sacked - as if you couldn't criticise a manager without wanting them to get the bullet. Which was, of course, utter nonsense.

But on the flip side, it was also possible to think that he was generally doing a good job without thinking that he was a messiah and without any fault. Which was no less common an accusation thrown around at the time.

[hilts_coolerking]

But on the flip side, it was also possible to think that he was generally doing a good job without thinking that he was a messiah and without any fault. Which was no less common an accusation thrown around at the time.

Doesn't really explain the vitriol directed at those who did offer criticism.

[Concrete John]

Hmm, I can mainly recollect people being happy with with the good things (exciting counter attacking team full of promise for a couple of years), frustrated with the not-so-great things (slightly dull home games where we lacked the guile to break teams down in a league that increasingly became all too aware of how to nullify our 'plan A') and disgusted with the disgraceful thing (leaving us in the shit the way he did). 

Football is a transient thing and it's VERY rare a manager is the right man for a club for longer than a handful of years a la Ferguson at Man Utd or Wenger at Arsenal.  O'Neill was a good Villa manager who left under a black cloud.  Nobody need apologise for supporting him while he was at the club. 

Good post.

Someone has said you can criticise a manager without wanting him gone, but by the same token you can also back him without agreeing with everything he does.

As I card carrying 'happy clapper' from those days, what got me was posters picking
holes in what he was doing while conveniently ignoring the results as we were pushing for 4th.  There was very little balanced argument back then as both sides of the debate failed to see the other as anything other than one extreme or the other.

[Dave]

But on the flip side, it was also possible to think that he was generally doing a good job without thinking that he was a messiah and without any fault. Which was no less common an accusation thrown around at the time.

Doesn't really explain the vitriol directed at those who did offer criticism.

As I said, I'd say that it was met in kind by those very same people.

A quick browse through the Gnasher's posting history and his litany of witty nicknames will attest to that.