The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[hilts_coolerking]

Even the local writers for the nationals didn't like him, though.

I'm sure that's true dave.  All I'm saying is I can see why local journos might have disliked O'Neill, for reasons other than his personality.

[dave.woodhall]

Even the local writers for the nationals didn't like him, though.

I'm sure that's true dave.  All I'm saying is I can see why local journos might have disliked O'Neill, for reasons other than his personality.

Definitely. I can imagine he believed they were part of the whole Villa package he was gracing with his presence.

[Mister E]

I don't have any first-hand experience, but I gather that some hacks regard PL as `hard work'.

I'm sure that's the case: he's not exactly Mr Personality, is he.

[TopDeck113]

I've enjoyed reading this thread - some really good points well made.

A couple of observations.

(1) I've said in the past that I miss MON.  However, I now realize that what I actually miss is that feeling we had during the first couple of years of his tenure of the whole club moving onwards and upwards together.  I think at that moment in time we would have had that feeling with any charismatic manager. 

(2) In football, legacy is more about what you achieve for future generations of supporters to vicariously enjoy. It has much less to do with what you bequeath your successor.  I think that's probably to do with the fact that most managerial tenures end on a negative note, if not outright failure, and the sack. 

[tomd2103]

Never have I known a Manager have such a large gaggle of journalists on his side.

It's interesting that while the nationals remained in thrall to himself, the local writers couldn't stand him.

I think the latter is a symptom of the former though.  O'Neill was (and still is, just) a national story, over and above a local one.  This is why the Villa briefly became media favourites but also why the local journos had their noses put out of joint because it wasn't "their" club any more.  Now that O'Neill has gone, and our fortunes have declined, they've got their club back again and probably prefer it that way.

Even the local writers for the nationals didn't like him, though.

Posted this before, but this is a classic MON interview.  Tries to brush off the interviewer's questions with an attempt at a joke, but when it doesn't work he gets very touchy!!

[Dave Clark Five]

Never have I known a Manager have such a large gaggle of journalists on his side.

It's interesting that while the nationals remained in thrall to himself, the local writers couldn't stand him. 

Indeed. We had a very interesting conversation with two of them after one of the pre season games in Portugal, only a few days before he left. The end was well and truly, nigh.

[PeterWithesShin]

Great post about 6th place. It really boils my piss when the media, and even some of our own fans, make out it was some fantastic achievement for the club.
My first game was 1975, and since then only 1 manager who has had more than 1 season at the club has failed to finish in the top 6 at least once. Step forward Mr Turner. So it's hardly the great achievement it's made out to be when Saunders, Barton, SGT1, BFR, Little, Gregory and even Mr Fickle managed it. A few of those actually managed to win something as well.

So well done Pube Head, you are the 6th most successful Villa manager in my time despite having the best working conditions of any of them. That's your legacy for me, you're not actually that good a manager.

[Dave Clark Five]

How would O'Neill have lasted under the leadership of Doug Ellis? There is no chance that Ellis would have stood for another big ego. I regret thanking Ellis, personally, for bringing O'Neill to the Villa. It makes me want to put my fingers down my throat to make me spew up.

[joe_c]

Never have I known a Manager have such a large gaggle of journalists on his side.

It's interesting that while the nationals remained in thrall to himself, the local writers couldn't stand him.

I think the latter is a symptom of the former though.  O'Neill was (and still is, just) a national story, over and above a local one.  This is why the Villa briefly became media favourites but also why the local journos had their noses put out of joint because it wasn't "their" club any more.  Now that O'Neill has gone, and our fortunes have declined, they've got their club back again and probably prefer it that way.

Even the local writers for the nationals didn't like him, though.

Posted this before, but this is a classic MON interview.  Tries to brush off the interviewer's questions with an attempt at a joke, but when it doesn't work he gets very touchy!!

Marvellous. I love the "Do you know who I am?" look that descends over his face when the interviewer persists.

[pauliewalnuts]

If any of you are watching the new series of Homeland,  there is a bit where a previously dismissed and deemed crazy ex CIA woman is shown a video clip of the American Marine that she was convinced had been 'turned' to a terrorist, whilst being held hostage for 7 years or so - the premise for the whole of series 1.

In the clip, he is preparing to become a suicide bomber - and explains his reasons to camera.

Her first words when she was shown the clip were '' I was right, I was right !''

Thats how we should feel .

Tell you what, that is uncanny, that is exactly what i was going to post about this video.

[eamonn]

I don't have any first-hand experience, but I gather that some hacks regard PL as `hard work'.

I'm sure that's the case: he's not exactly Mr Personality, is he.

I understand that viewpoint. He does a fair bit of Scottish mumbling and when you can understand what he's saying it's usually common platitudes and clichés. But I have to say I was very impressed by him in that fan forum talk he did (on avtv) in the summer. And I liked the way he cheekily interrupted Norwich's player Pilkington giving an interview to Radio Norfolk after the game last weekend. He's likeable, like MON before him, but more humble.

[brian green]

I still think the sea change which happened at Villa Park was not the arrival of Randy Lerner or the appointment of O'Neill but the departure of Doug Ellis.

It reminds me of the plot of The Pit and The Pendulum.   Ellis went, phew, what a relief.   O'Neill and Lerner arrive, wonderful pendulum free days at VP.  What's this? F*ck! it's the pendulum. Enter Houllier and TSM and we wish we had somebody as football savvy and less naive than Lerner and Faulkner, Ellis for example.

[eastie]

Never have I known a Manager have such a large gaggle of journalists on his side.

It's interesting that while the nationals remained in thrall to himself, the local writers couldn't stand him. 

Indeed. We had a very interesting conversation with two of them after one of the pre season games in Portugal, only a few days before he left. The end was well and truly, nigh.

Come on now dc5 you old tease ,please reveal more? Don't keep us dangling my friend.

[Mister E]

Posted this before, but this is a classic MON interview.  Tries to brush off the interviewer's questions with an attempt at a joke, but when it doesn't work he gets very touchy!!

Okay, so he was somewhat younger and less experienced, but I'm surprised on this that he could not provide some reasonable response to a reasonable question. The supposedly intelligent and erudite O'Neill looks rather limp in this clip. Interesting; I'd not seen it before.

[Mister E]

I still think the sea change which happened at Villa Park was not the arrival of Randy Lerner or the appointment of O'Neill but the departure of Doug Ellis.

It reminds me of the plot of The Pit and The Pendulum.   Ellis went, phew, what a relief.   O'Neill and Lerner arrive, wonderful pendulum free days at VP.  What's this? F*ck! it's the pendulum. Enter Houllier and TSM and we wish we had somebody as football savvy and less naive than Lerner and Faulkner, Ellis for example.

Maybe, Brian, but I think the difference would have been that Ol' Herbert would not have allowed the wage bill to spiral out of control in the way that it seems RL did. If MON had come in to work under Doug (which I don't think he would have done), we would not have made the large number of mediocre signings on big salaries. So, we'd never have got into the position we found ourselves in 2010.