The end is nigh.

[Mazrim]

Ding, dong, dell,
Milner doing well.

Who made him skill?
Little Mart O'Neill.

Why does he want out?
Gary Cook's about.

What a naughty boy was that,
To tap up greedy twat,

Now we're waiting for the fax,
And telling lies about his back.

[achilles]

Oh come off it, would anyone have considered paying £25m for Milner 2 yaers ago? You were probably one of the ones saying we'd overspent at £12m.

You're right I wouldn't have thought anyone would have considered paying £25m for milner 2 years ago.......i don't think anyone would.

Stick with me here this bit is complicated; if he was worth £12m 2 years ago and now is a £25m player then surely that means he has "gone from average to great because of O'Neill".

I would say he's gone from £12 million to £25 million because of Manchester City.

That's a fcator but surely you wouldn't try to argue that he's not now a significantly better player than he was then. With all the money at their disposal why would they want Milner if he wasn't a much improved player.

Same player, different position.  It's hard to compare last season's player with previous years as he never played in the middle before.

So who put him into the middle?

I know that many of you struggle to give him credit for anything but it seems unarguable that he's had a significant and positive impact on the development of Milner.

Quite obviously it was the manager but Milner had been advocating that he wanted to play in the middle for some time previously!

[Ennis]

I feel that Milner's determination and will to succeed has improved him as a player and not necessarily our manager

Yet if he hadn't improved, due to a lack of determination on his part or not, that would still be Martin's fault in some people's eyes.

Then that is "some people's" argument and not mine

So the manager isn't at fault if players stand still or go backwards under him?

I think you're being quite unfair in not giving credit to Martin for the improvement in Milner as a player.

I never said that either.....

I refer you back to my previous comment that I feel the theory that MON gets the best out of under performing players is a myth and the only back up anyone has given is someone who was never under performing

[Small Rodent]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?

Yes

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?

Yes

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?

Had no idea how we'd play

4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?

Yes

5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?

Yes

6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?

It's been better, but there are still gaps

7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?

None whatsoever

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?  

There have been individual games, but not enough consistency. Defence is the most improved, but maybe should have been done 2 years ago.

9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?

Yes, but that is down to my eternal optimism and not based in any sense of reality....so No!

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?

No.

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?

No. I've always seen top 4 as too hard to break without others slipping up above us. When it has happened we have failed to grasp the chance.

[Mazrim]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?
One of them, yes.

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?
Absolutely.

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?
Yes.

4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?
Yes.

5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?
Yes.

6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?
Yes.

7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?
No.

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?
No.

9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?
Sometimes.

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?
Absolutely not.

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?
I thought it would be possible but I'm also reasonably satisfied.

[Ennis]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?
Yes

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?
A bit of column 'A', a bit of column 'B'

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?
Yes


4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?
Yes


5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?
Yes



6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?
A bit of column 'A', a bit of column 'B'


7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?
No

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?  
No


9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?
No

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?
No

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?
No

[KevinGage]

In fairness, we had a few Newcastle fans that came on here and said as a winger he wasn't great but his form in the centre for them had been decent.

[dave.woodhall]

Milner was one of the most promising youngsters in the country when we signed him. Martin must take some of the credit for the player he is now, but this isn't a Dwight Yorke transformation we're talking about.

[Pete3206]

Is this a warm up for the West Ham post match thread?  If we'd drawn against Benfica or even been narrowly defeated, this thread would not exist.

It's the other extreme to the nonsense spouted about The Peace Cup last year. The results of both games were equally insignificant

Sadly, there seems to be an agenda for getting MON out the door now and every set back will be pounced on with multi page threads like these.

Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.

[Concrete John]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?

4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?

5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?

6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?

7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?  

9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?

1.  Yes.
2.  Yes.
3.  Not really as I never found his Leicester side to be all that entertaining.
4.  Yes - and we have!
5.  Yes - and he has, although there are weaknesses still.
6.  Depends on when you start the modren from, but I'd say so on balance.
7.  No.
8.  No.
9.  Yes, but it's a case of knowing there will be a mundane signing for every exciting one.
10.  Not enough.
11.  Hard to say, but if we're falling short of the realistic ambitions since him and Randy took over it's not by much.

[Olneythelonely]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?
One of them, yes.

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?
Absolutely.

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?
Yes.

4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?
Yes.

5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?
Yes.

6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?
Yes.

7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?
No.

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?
No.

9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?
Sometimes.

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?
Absolutely not.

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?
I thought it would be possible but I'm also reasonably satisfied.

Saved me the trouble of doing it.

[ktvillan]

I don't think the end is nigh just yet, but I do see more and more posters starting to get disillusioned with O'Neill.  I don't think too much should be, or is being, read into a pre-season defeat.  Pre-seasons are notoriously unpredictable and unrepresentative.  It's more about the lack of indication that things are going to be different (i.e better) next season in terms of playing style, tactics, and signings.   Even some of O'Neill's staunchest supporters were saying at the end of last season that this one would be make or break for O'Neill and something had to change.  I can't see much indication that the changes will come so far.

Sure we still have a month to make those signings and technical improvements that will transform us but as some have said, O'Neill is 58 years old, seems set in his ways and is as stubborn as a mule. I really do struggle to see those changes coming and if they don't, that means pretty much more of the same as we've had the last two seasons.   I can't remember ever feeling as unexcited about a new season as I do at the moment.

[adrenachrome]

1.   Was MoN the right man for the job at the time of his appointment?
One of them, yes.

2.   Are we in a better position now than what we were in when MoN took over?
Absolutely.

3.   Were you initially excited about the style of football we would play?
Yes.

4.   Did you expect that we would be able to attract a better quality of player to the club given the fact that we had the new owners and MoN as our manager?
Yes.

5.   Has MoN had the funds and enough time to build a squad?
Yes.

6.   Would you say that we have a healthier and stronger squad now than at many other times in our clubs modern history?
Yes.

7.   Should Mon have any complaints about the levels of trust and autonomy that has been handed to him by Randy and the board?
No.

8.   During Mon’s tenure, has the football improved?
No.

9.   Do you get excited about the future transfer dealings that Mon will conduct?
Sometimes.

10.   Does MoN utilise his squad?
Absolutely not.

11.   Did you expect to be in an even better position than what we presently find ourselves?
I thought it would be possible but I'm also reasonably satisfied.

Saved me the trouble of doing it.

Seconded or thirded.

[not3bad]

Ding, dong, dell,
Milner doing well.

Who made him skill?
Little Mart O'Neill.

Why does he want out?
Gary Cook's about.

What a naughty boy was that,
To tap up greedy twat,

Now we're waiting for the fax,
And telling lies about his back.

Another Nursery Crime from Maz! ;-)

[Risso]

That John M has turned into a right miserable bugger! ;)