Other Games - 2010/11 Season

[Legion]

What if Southport also win?

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

What if Southport also win?

If Tamworth win they jump above Forest Green and send them down instead. As I say its dog eat dog, non league equivalent of last seasons Sheff W v Palace game.

[Legion]

Ah, I see now. It's too early in the morning for me.

[VillaZogmariner]

'Barcelona are cheats'. Nice damning the whole by the part there. 'The laws of the game were not designed to accommodate cheats'. Again - THAT'S WHY PHYSICAL FOULS ARE GIVEN AS FOULS. There are appropriate sanctions for Alves etc's actions, because there are things like yellow cards for diving.

En masse, eh. If to justify this 'en masse' claim you can name any incident from a Barca player OTHER than Pedro, Alves or Busquets which was in any way exceptional I will congratulate your vigilance.

You hope United stuff them. A United team which contains as notorious an actor as Nani, in Rooney a player who has so often dived to gain favour, a manager whose attitude to referees is, oh, fucking definitely within your 'spirit of the game' moral crusade, whose players surround referees as badly and as persistently as anything we've seen from el Clasico. Nice consistent line there. The hypocrisy is unbelievable on this issue.

I understand what you are saying Monty, and agree that deliberate fouling is also a form of cheating. However, the foulers are punished at the time by the giving away of free kicks and yellow cards. The divers, however, are getting away with it 95% of the time (I'd guess). So when a player comes in and makes a genuine challenge they then are gaining an unfair advantage. Unfortunately even after the game these go unpunished. I can only think of one incident in Italy where a player was suspended after a match for a dive he took during a game. That's the biggest difference between the two, and the reason that I believe that diving/play acting is a worse form of cheating than the deliberate fouls (which, let's be honest, is very rare that happens compared to the diving/play acting). Fouling gets punished, diving/play acting doesn't.

[Dave Cooper please]

What if Southport also win?

If Tamworth win they jump above Forest Green and send them down instead. As I say its dog eat dog, non league equivalent of last seasons Sheff W v Palace game.

Tamworth don't have a goalkeeper, one is banned the other injured. The Conference have denied us special dispensation to loan an emergency keeper as we have the 90 year old (or so!) Dale Belford as caretaker manager and he is registered to play although his doctor has warned him not to due to the state of his knees. We're fucked!
 Chairman Bob Andrews will be taking up the spare place on the subs bench (we only had three fit substitutes as of last night) in protest.

[Monty]

I would actually say that deliberate fouling doesn't always get punished. Sure, the obvious ones like a really meaty kick or a professional foul when the opponent is away almost invariably get punished (the key word being 'almost' - I refer the new Man Utd lovers to Mr. Phil Dowd). However, because referees seem to have forgotten the 'booking for repeated fouling' rule, seemingly innocuous but undoubtedly niggly and, crucially in the case of Barca, unfair rhythm-disrupting fouls don't actually get punished by yellow or even red cards. People say that Pepe shouldn't have been sent off, but Real could (and maybe should) have been down to nine anyway. Also, in the case of Busquets, referees are wise to him and generally don't take his word for it if he claims to have been hit.

Their method was thoroughly anti-football, as was Barca's response - but the point is that Barca's was a response. I watch a lot of Barca, and they're never like that. People have been saying the usual 'holier than thou' stuff - "thank God we don't have to watch that every week" (which, incidentally, is probably what Spanish fans say about long balls and dangerous, unpunished lunges) - but the fact is that Barca fans don't have to watch that every week. Alves is just normal - no worse than someone like our Ash - and Pedro is even normally reknowned for staying on his feet. Busquets, I grant you, is rarely pretty to watch (shame really, he's such a good player and yet does all this), but even he turns it up for this big game. In short, the particular damning of Barca is unfair for a few reasons: one, they don't do this all the time so to judge on one game is unfair; two, they did it this time as an admittedly childish response to Real's Zubeldia-like tactics; and three, that they only really had three cheats on the pitch - Real had ten.

[TheSandman]

Tamworth don't have a goalkeeper, one is banned the other injured. The Conference have denied us special dispensation to loan an emergency keeper as we have the 90 year old (or so!) Dale Belford as caretaker manager and he is registered to play although his doctor has warned him not to due to the state of his knees. We're fucked!
 Chairman Bob Andrews will be taking up the spare place on the subs bench (we only had three fit substitutes as of last night) in protest.

That sounds ludicrous that the league are saying that.

Best of luck.

[Dave Cooper please]

That sounds ludicrous that the league are saying that.

Best of luck.

The five-man committee that made the decision contains three members from Forest Green, Southport and Altrincham, have a look at the table above and figure out why!

[Villa'Zawg]

I would actually say that deliberate fouling doesn't always get punished. Sure, the obvious ones like a really meaty kick or a professional foul when the opponent is away almost invariably get punished (the key word being 'almost' - I refer the new Man Utd lovers to Mr. Phil Dowd). However, because referees seem to have forgotten the 'booking for repeated fouling' rule, seemingly innocuous but undoubtedly niggly and, crucially in the case of Barca, unfair rhythm-disrupting fouls don't actually get punished by yellow or even red cards. People say that Pepe shouldn't have been sent off, but Real could (and maybe should) have been down to nine anyway. Also, in the case of Busquets, referees are wise to him and generally don't take his word for it if he claims to have been hit.

Their method was thoroughly anti-football, as was Barca's response - but the point is that Barca's was a response. I watch a lot of Barca, and they're never like that. People have been saying the usual 'holier than thou' stuff - "thank God we don't have to watch that every week" (which, incidentally, is probably what Spanish fans say about long balls and dangerous, unpunished lunges) - but the fact is that Barca fans don't have to watch that every week. Alves is just normal - no worse than someone like our Ash - and Pedro is even normally reknowned for staying on his feet. Busquets, I grant you, is rarely pretty to watch (shame really, he's such a good player and yet does all this), but even he turns it up for this big game. In short, the particular damning of Barca is unfair for a few reasons: one, they don't do this all the time so to judge on one game is unfair; two, they did it this time as an admittedly childish response to Real's Zubeldia-like tactics; and three, that they only really had three cheats on the pitch - Real had ten.

Your desperate attempt to justify Barcelona's cheating is almost as sickening as the the performance itself.

Barcelona have no god given right to have games played at their rhythm and it is beholden on the opposition to disrupt them. You insist that referees don't book players for repeated fouls, that's patent nonsense, they do so all the time.

Your justification for Pepe's sending off is pathetic. Pepe was sent off because a Barcelona player chose to pretend he had been fouled, even to the extent of being carried off on a stretcher. The replay shows there was zero contact. That was probably the most important incident in the entire game and it was an act of blatant cheating.

Just out of interest, what do you think would be a fair punishment for Barcelona and their players for cheating their way to a Champions League final? Should we just accept it because in your opinion, the better club won?

[Monty]

Your desperate attempt to justify Barcelona's cheating is almost as sickening as the the performance itself.

Barcelona have no god given right to have games played at their rhythm and it is beholden on the opposition to disrupt them. You insist that referees don't book players for repeated fouls, that's patent nonsense, they do so all the time.

Your justification for Pepe's sending off is pathetic. Pepe was sent off because a Barcelona player chose to pretend he had been fouled, even to the extent of being carried off on a stretcher. The replay shows there was zero contact. That was probably the most important incident in the entire game and it was an act of blatant cheating.

Just out of interest, what do you think would be a fair punishment for Barcelona and their players for cheating their way to a Champions League final? Should we just accept it because in your opinion, the better club won?

Sorry if my point of view 'sickens' you. For my money, I tend to reserve words like that for points of view like racism or for acts like child abuse. Still, if you feel that strongly, good luck to you. You've still failed to answer any of my points.

I have never, at any point, said that Barca deserve special treatment. I have also never said that their rhythm shouldn't be disrupted by the opposition, merely that it is a form of cheating to do that deliberately by fouling and kicking. Diving and exaggeration is equally deliberate, and therefore equally a form of cheating. 18 fouls by Real, 3 yellows, none of them for repeated fouling (a lot of free kicks went ungiven as well, not least because of the number of advantages played as the ball broke to Barca, or the number of incidents just not seen by the officials).

I don't necessarily justify Pepe's sending off, though I can see why it was given regardless of Alves' dying swan impression - and, actually, I think it was given regardless of Alves' reaction, rightly or wrongly.

I think the punishment for Busquets, Pedro and Alves should be a retrospective yellow for every dive proved by video evidence. In Busquets' case, certainly, that would be more than one yellow and a suspension, in Alves' case he was already booked in the game so that would amount to a red and a suspension. But UEFA and FIFA have some inexplicable, unjustifiable and just plain weird aversion to retrospective action involving yellows, either giving or rescinding, so it won't happen. Mind you, Sergio Ramos should also get a retrospective red for his unseen attack on Messi, so Mourinho would still have something to cry conspiracy about.

[spangley1812]

1 - 0  Leeds

[spangley1812]

Fonz on for Burnley

[spangley1812]

Finished 1 - 0, the Fonz didnt get a kick but Lichaj played well

[Dante Lavelli]

Did anyone see the Copa Del Rey?
Madrid were notably doing more of the play acting and referee hounding in that match, along side their aggressive approach. Sid Lowe even commented soon it in the Guardian podcast saying how well drilled Madrid were.

My guess is Barcelona decided to "up" that side of their game too in this most recent match to avoid another defeat.

For me both tactics are equally bad. I'm amazed that the players agree to such antics. Where is their pride? Indeed it's strage how the most fouled player - Messi - rarely dives around.

[Monty]

Did anyone see the Copa Del Rey?
Madrid were notably doing more of the play acting and referee hounding in that match, along side their aggressive approach. Sid Lowe even commented soon it in the Guardian podcast saying how well drilled Madrid were.

My guess is Barcelona decided to "up" that side of their game too in this most recent match to avoid another defeat.

For me both tactics are equally bad. I'm amazed that the players agree to such antics. Where is their pride? Indeed it's strage how the most fouled player - Messi - rarely dives around.

1000% percent agree. Maybe even 1001%. Also, one of the things which makes Xavi, Iniesta and especially Messi as great as they are is that they're the most targeted, the most fouled and the least dramatic. It's impressive that they don't lose their heads in such a poisonous environment as the modern Clasico.