Villa striker Emile Heskey retires...

[stevenjos]

Im 27 and he's the worst player ive seen.

He helped me beat the traffic home a lot last season.

[pauliewalnuts]

Then those people should have any difficulty explain why Capello chose to use him ahead of his other options. I've explained that I think it is because he is a selfless player who creates opportunities for his teammates. Why do you think he played in the England world cup team?

What possible relevance does what he does for England (which, let's be entirely honest, is hardly stellar either) have to what he does for Villa?

Where are all these opportunities getting created for his team mates at Villa?

The difference, I am imagining, between England and Villa in the way people are discussing him is that most of us spend a good chunk of our lives thinking about Villa, whereas we don't about the national team, so you can hardly expect people to say "well, he's been rubbish for us, but Capello rates him and he's been a bit better for the national team, so that's ok"

Regardless of what you think of him, or what I think of him, why can't you just accept that some people find him to be not very good, and take them at their word for it?

Some people spend a lot of time on here complaining about the Villa and the manager, they then use Heskey (for now) as a scapegoat to support that opinion.

Some people who aren't that keen on the manager, also aren't that keen on Heskey. It's really that simple.

Again, I'll ask you, if Heskey is a scapegoat, we're blaming him for someone else's deficiencies, so who is that person?

His selection for England has relevance to the opinion that he is a shit player, which is what he was being called.

Some people who aren't that keen on the manager, say that they always said Heskey wasn't going to be a good signing and they have been proven right. Those same people also said the same about players like Dunne and Collins but would rather not discuss that in quite as much detail.

I don't take issue with people who aren't that keen on him or think he isn't a very effective striker, I take issue with people who glibly declare that he is shit.

There seem to be four arguments.

1. Those who think he's not very good and point out why.
2. Those who think he's better than that, and point out why.
3. Those who, as you say, "glibly declare that he is shit"
4. Those who say "you're only saying he's shit because you don't like the manager" (you, by and large)

The first two have merit, but the last two strike me as non-arguments.

So, why don't you offer your own thoughts on him, rather than "Capello likes him" or "you thought Collins would be shit, too"?

Do you think he's been a good signing, for example? Do you think he's done a job for us?

Feel free to answer the scapegoat question, as well, I'm genuinely interested to hear whose deficiencies Heskey is blamed for, because there can surely only be one possible candidate, if that's the case ...

[Jimbo]

Heskey: nice bloke, crap player. End of argument.

[Risso]

Where's the hatred of which you speak anyway?  A lot of people think he's a shit footballer, so what?  I can't see anybody tearing into him as a bloke.  I don't suppose he loses any sleep over the fact that people on the internet think he's shit while he earns his £3m a year, so I'm not sure why you're being such a big kid about it.

That Risso talks shite, but I'm sure he doesn't mind me saying it as he rakes in shitloads living in a tax haven.

Aww, you didn't do your hilarious wickerman insult.

I didn't mean it as an insult, just a joke. I apologise if it touched a nerve.

PM me if you need me to send a dinghy.

I'd always taken it as a joke, just found the above post unnecessarily stroppy so wan't sure.  You can keep the dinghy though, I'll sail across Simon le Bon style on a posho yacht, while sniffing coke off a supermodel's arse crack.

[stevenjos]

Where's the hatred of which you speak anyway?  A lot of people think he's a shit footballer, so what?  I can't see anybody tearing into him as a bloke.  I don't suppose he loses any sleep over the fact that people on the internet think he's shit while he earns his £3m a year, so I'm not sure why you're being such a big kid about it.

That Risso talks shite, but I'm sure he doesn't mind me saying it as he rakes in shitloads living in a tax haven.

Aww, you didn't do your hilarious wickerman insult.

I didn't mean it as an insult, just a joke. I apologise if it touched a nerve.

PM me if you need me to send a dinghy.

I'd always taken it as a joke, just found the above post unnecessarily stroppy so wan't sure.  You can keep the dinghy though, I'll sail across Simon le Bon style on a posho yacht, while sniffing coke off a supermodel's arse crack.

Is her name Rio?

[LeeB]

Where's the hatred of which you speak anyway?  A lot of people think he's a shit footballer, so what?  I can't see anybody tearing into him as a bloke.  I don't suppose he loses any sleep over the fact that people on the internet think he's shit while he earns his £3m a year, so I'm not sure why you're being such a big kid about it.

That Risso talks shite, but I'm sure he doesn't mind me saying it as he rakes in shitloads living in a tax haven.

Aww, you didn't do your hilarious wickerman insult.

I didn't mean it as an insult, just a joke. I apologise if it touched a nerve.

PM me if you need me to send a dinghy.

I'd always taken it as a joke, just found the above post unnecessarily stroppy so wan't sure.  You can keep the dinghy though, I'll sail across Simon le Bon style on a posho yacht, while sniffing coke off a supermodel's arse crack.

Excellent.

And the post in question wasn't meant in a stroppy way, is was a satire of the post I'd quoted. It obviously wasn't very good.

[Olneythelonely]

Same here, we've had a lot worse, he's probably not even the worst player O'Neill has bought (coooee Mr Shorey!) He has his strengths, it's just that we needed someone to score goals.  When you want goals, a "defensive striker" is the last thing people want to watch at VP.

Well then we both think exactly the same. I now think you're the greatest moderator ever. Much better than that Paulie_walnuts bloke.

[Concrete John]

Heskey: nice bloke, crap player. End of argument.

Job done.  Close the thread.

[Villa'Zawg]

Then those people should have any difficulty explain why Capello chose to use him ahead of his other options. I've explained that I think it is because he is a selfless player who creates opportunities for his teammates. Why do you think he played in the England world cup team?

What possible relevance does what he does for England (which, let's be entirely honest, is hardly stellar either) have to what he does for Villa?

Where are all these opportunities getting created for his team mates at Villa?

The difference, I am imagining, between England and Villa in the way people are discussing him is that most of us spend a good chunk of our lives thinking about Villa, whereas we don't about the national team, so you can hardly expect people to say "well, he's been rubbish for us, but Capello rates him and he's been a bit better for the national team, so that's ok"

Regardless of what you think of him, or what I think of him, why can't you just accept that some people find him to be not very good, and take them at their word for it?

Some people spend a lot of time on here complaining about the Villa and the manager, they then use Heskey (for now) as a scapegoat to support that opinion.

Some people who aren't that keen on the manager, also aren't that keen on Heskey. It's really that simple.

Again, I'll ask you, if Heskey is a scapegoat, we're blaming him for someone else's deficiencies, so who is that person?

His selection for England has relevance to the opinion that he is a shit player, which is what he was being called.

Some people who aren't that keen on the manager, say that they always said Heskey wasn't going to be a good signing and they have been proven right. Those same people also said the same about players like Dunne and Collins but would rather not discuss that in quite as much detail.

I don't take issue with people who aren't that keen on him or think he isn't a very effective striker, I take issue with people who glibly declare that he is shit.

There seem to be four arguments.

1. Those who think he's not very good and point out why.
2. Those who think he's better than that, and point out why.
3. Those who, as you say, "glibly declare that he is shit"
4. Those who say "you're only saying he's shit because you don't like the manager" (you, by and large)

The first two have merit, but the last two strike me as non-arguments.

So, why don't you offer your own thoughts on him, rather than "Capello likes him" or "you thought Collins would be shit, too"?

Do you think he's been a good signing, for example? Do you think he's done a job for us?

Feel free to answer the scapegoat question, as well, I'm genuinely interested to hear whose deficiencies Heskey is blamed for, because there can surely only be one possible candidate, if that's the case ...

What do you mean by non-arguments? There are plenty of people who glibly declare he is shit. There are also people who use Heskey as a scapegoat because they don't like the manager and think their opinion of Heskey validates their opinion of the manager. For convenience, they choose not to discuss the opinions they expressed about the likes of Dunne and Collins, otherwise they might have to express a more balanced opinion.

I've already said that I think he is a selfless player who works for the team and that is why he gets selected. I know there are plenty of people on here willing to argue they know more than our manager, which is why I ask why do you think Capello chose him ahead of his other options?

[pauliewalnuts]

What do you mean by non-arguments? There are plenty of people who glibly declare he is shit. There are also people who use Heskey as a scapegoat because they don't like the manager and think their opinion of Heskey validates their opinion of the manager. For convenience, they choose not to discuss the opinions they expressed about the likes of Dunne and Collins, otherwise they might have to express a more balanced opinion.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I mentioned myself how wrong i was on that the other day.

I've also mentioned how unfair I think people are over the Downing signing. And how I feel Shorey is a decent player. And how rubbishing Delph's signing is ridiculous.

That's my balanced opinion but I don't think I've ever seen you talk of any of our signings in negative terms.

So, since you raised it, where's your own balance?

I've already said that I think he is a selfless player who works for the team and that is why he gets selected. I know there are plenty of people on here willing to argue they know more than our manager, which is why I ask why do you think Capello chose him ahead of his other options?

Ah, Godwins Law.

It had to happen at some point.

[Risso]

I've already said that I think he is a selfless player who works for the team and that is why he gets selected. I know there are plenty of people on here willing to argue they know more than our manager, which is why I ask why do you think Capello chose him ahead of his other options?

I can see why Capello picks Heskey, as he believes that his presence benefits the attacking players like Gerrard and Lampard.  When they have poor games though, it's most unlikely that Heskey is going to chip in with goals of his own to compensate.  

As for Villa though, Heskey's supposed strengths do nothing in our style of play whatsoever.  As a substitute for Carew, he's spectacularly ineffective, and when he starts it pretty well guarantees that we have two players in him and Petrov who will never score.

[cheltenhamlion]

He is a striker. His first job is to score goals. He doesn't.

This could be forgiven if he made spectacular contributions which help out the team and make for us scoring a lot more goals. He doesn't.

Therefore, Emile Heskey, whilst playing for Villa is shit.

This may be because we don't play to his strengths but he does nothing to warrant a place in the team for us.

[Fergal]

What's the technical term for a non goalscoring centre forward?

[TimTheVillain]

Am I alone in actually thinking Shorey is a decent player?

Yes  Paulie, you are very alone !

[TimTheVillain]

What's the technical term for a non goalscoring centre forward?

A 'Heskey'.