The Milner Novela... Final episode page 296

[Greg N'Ash]

My guess is milner wants to leave and we want to sell him. MON being the media obsessed control freak he is, wanted to shift the blame milner's way after they came to an agreement before the world cup to keep schtumm. Hence Milner being a bit narked

Greg making his usual sense. Where along the line do we think that Milner is 'narked'? I'm not sure there has been a comment from Milner on the issue in months. The manager wants to use the media to get the best deal for the club as he can. Where's the problem with that?


erm, off the record remarks in most of the papers saying he never said he'd leave and tried to phone MON? MON's more worried about his own skin and how selling our best player will appear. MON has a long history of being obsessed with the opinion of the media {look at his comments made about the press during his time at celtic for proof, where even his supporters thought he was a bit paranoid}. Not to mention his habit of sueing anyone who gets it wrong. I'm not surprised he's trying to control the story but don't pretend its for the club as remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show.

What I said was that the two scenarios are so black and white that Milner would not be sitting on the fence undecided.  He would know in his own mind what he would want to do.  If he had wanted to stay with Villa he would have made it very clear to the club that he wanted to stay and the club would have made a very public statement to that effect.

Again, whilst you might think that is the case, you don't know it is, so my suggestion that he hasn't made his mind up must at least be a possibility, surely?

Are you saying there's no chance whatsoever? At all?

Indeed.

I think the most likely scenario in all of this is "I would love to move to Manchester City and the ridiculous salary that they will throw at me but if they don't offer my current club the price that they want then there is a good chance that I will still be there next season. Do I want to burn my bridges?"

Why would you make an idiotic statement like Barry did two summers ago? Everything to lose, nothing to gain.

agreed, he was trying to keep his options open and then MON broke cover which has effectively removed the option of staying, its just about how much. Its the Barry saga all over again and i dont think our manager handed that one too well either

What exactly did he do wrong there?

[J]

Why would you make an idiotic statement like Barry did two summers ago? Everything to lose, nothing to gain.

agreed, he was trying to keep his options open and then MON broke cover which has effectively removed the option of staying, its just about how much. Its the Barry saga all over again and i dont think our manager handed that one too well either

What do you think MON could have done differently with the Barry saga? He showed that he is no pushover in the transfer market while getting an extra season out of Barry and then sold him for 12m when he only had one year left on his contract. As a bonus it looks it like fat arse is now in steady decline and will be fortunate to get a look in at Man City next season.

[Dave]

erm, off the record remarks in most of the papers saying he never said he'd leave and tried to phone MON? MON's more worried about his own skin and how selling our best player will appear. MON has a long history of being obsessed with the opinion of the media {look at his comments made about the press during his time at celtic for proof, where even his supporters thought he was a bit paranoid}. Not to mention his habit of sueing anyone who gets it wrong. I'm not surprised he's trying to control the story but don't pretend its for the club as remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show

I've gone to the effort of sorting out your dodgy quotes and I'm not even sure where to start on a reply.

Off the record remarks? Like what? He wants to leave. I think we're all pretty accepting of that fact. What exactly do you want the manager to do about it?

His own skin? He's here for another year more whatever happens. How does this situation affect that?

Every footballer and manager is obsessed with the press and how they are portrayed. So what?

What exactly do "remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show"? Anything or is it just more silly gregnash-style nonsense?

[Greg N'Ash]

erm, off the record remarks in most of the papers saying he never said he'd leave and tried to phone MON? MON's more worried about his own skin and how selling our best player will appear. MON has a long history of being obsessed with the opinion of the media {look at his comments made about the press during his time at celtic for proof, where even his supporters thought he was a bit paranoid}. Not to mention his habit of sueing anyone who gets it wrong. I'm not surprised he's trying to control the story but don't pretend its for the club as remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show

I've gone to the effort of sorting out your dodgy quotes and I'm not even sure where to start on a reply.

Off the record remarks? Like what? He wants to leave. I think we're all pretty accepting of that fact. What exactly do you want the manager to do about it?
The talks according to the club before the world cup  were 'positive and productive' If he had said he was leaving then the least you can say was the club was telling porkies then

His own skin? He's here for another year more whatever happens. How does this situation affect that?

you reckon? i think not.

Every footballer and manager is obsessed with the press and how they are portrayed. So what?

What exactly do "remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show"? Anything or is it just more silly gregnash-style nonsense?

Not sure it you were here Dave but the source was V.good and it didn't give the opinion thats he's well thought of by those in control at the moment

[old man villa fan]

What I said was that the two scenarios are so black and white that Milner would not be sitting on the fence undecided.  He would know in his own mind what he would want to do.  If he had wanted to stay with Villa he would have made it very clear to the club that he wanted to stay and the club would have made a very public statement to that effect.

Again, whilst you might think that is the case, you don't know it is, so my suggestion that he hasn't made his mind up must at least be a possibility, surely?

Are you saying there's no chance whatsoever? At all?
.

I know I lived in Thailand for a good period of time but I did not become a budhist and thus I do not believe things are predetermined.  I believe that he thinks Villa are not improving quickly enough to match his rush to be at a team challenging for the major honours (and consequently cannot match the wages at Man City).

You say that you don't believe things are predetermined but the rest of your post says, effectively, that Milner's decision is predetermined.

If things are not predetermined, how can you flatly refuse to accept that maybe he hasn't made his mind up?

It is a possibility, everything is a possibility.  What I am saying is that it is unrealistic.

I am not saying his decision is predetermined.  I believe that he has considered the options and feels we are not progressing quickly enough to match his developing career (in his mind) and he has made a decision.  That is not predetermined by fate and therefore unalterable, he is in control of his own future.

I do not flatly refuse to accept he hasn't made up his mind.  As I said above, I just do not see it as realistic.

My comments are what I truly believe and my opinion.  I do not play devil's advocate, like some on here.

[hawkeye]

Why would you make an idiotic statement like Barry did two summers ago? Everything to lose, nothing to gain.

agreed, he was trying to keep his options open and then MON broke cover which has effectively removed the option of staying, its just about how much. Its the Barry saga all over again and i dont think our manager handed that one too well either

What do you think MON could have done differently with the Barry saga? He showed that he is no pushover in the transfer market while getting an extra season out of Barry and then sold him for 12m when he only had one year left on his contract. As a bonus it looks it like fat arse is now in steady decline and will be fortunate to get a look in at Man City next season.

if you go back to MON comments when the storey broke and before quotes from the Barry camp he left the door open for the Barry saga to dominate the transfer window, what he should have done is said to Barry and Lpool this is our valuation meet in in 7 days or fuck off, he didnt he let the situation get out of control and was playing the media rather than doing his job which was to get a squad capable of a top 4 place, we got a half arsed season out of Barry, came 6th, didnt strengthen where we needed to and again the opportunity was lost before we kicked a ball

[Dave]

erm, off the record remarks in most of the papers saying he never said he'd leave and tried to phone MON? MON's more worried about his own skin and how selling our best player will appear. MON has a long history of being obsessed with the opinion of the media {look at his comments made about the press during his time at celtic for proof, where even his supporters thought he was a bit paranoid}. Not to mention his habit of sueing anyone who gets it wrong. I'm not surprised he's trying to control the story but don't pretend its for the club as remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show

I've gone to the effort of sorting out your dodgy quotes and I'm not even sure where to start on a reply.

Off the record remarks? Like what? He wants to leave. I think we're all pretty accepting of that fact. What exactly do you want the manager to do about it?
The talks according to the club before the world cup  were 'positive and productive' If he had said he was leaving then the least you can say was the club was telling porkies then

His own skin? He's here for another year more whatever happens. How does this situation affect that?

you reckon? i think not.

Every footballer and manager is obsessed with the press and how they are portrayed. So what?

What exactly do "remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show"? Anything or is it just more silly gregnash-style nonsense?

Not sure it you were here Dave but the source was V.good and it didn't give the opinion thats he's well thought of by those in control at the moment

I'm really not sure if you're trying to confuse things with your arguments or your dodgy quoting. But let's try again...

The first point (at least I think it's a point), surely things can change? Maybe in the month that the World Cup was on his potential salary changed from £40k to £120k? Would that not change things a bit? Maybe he was happy before the World Cup and he wasn't after the World Cup? Maybe Barry told him that as soon as you joined Manchester City you get given a gold-plated prostitute and get a street in Harrogate named after you? Do any of us know or are you sticking to you normal conjecture?

Point two: Do you think that O'Neill turning Milner from a £12m player to a £25m player inside two years is a black mark against his name whether he stays or goes? If you do, I'd be fascinated to hear your logic.

[dave.woodhall]

Point two: Do you think that O'Neill turning Milner from a £12m player to a £25m player inside two years is a black mark against his name whether he stays or goes? If you do, I'd be fascinated to hear your logic.

I think the Manchester City board had most to do with it, but it's a good point.

[Greg N'Ash]

erm, off the record remarks in most of the papers saying he never said he'd leave and tried to phone MON? MON's more worried about his own skin and how selling our best player will appear. MON has a long history of being obsessed with the opinion of the media {look at his comments made about the press during his time at celtic for proof, where even his supporters thought he was a bit paranoid}. Not to mention his habit of sueing anyone who gets it wrong. I'm not surprised he's trying to control the story but don't pretend its for the club as remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show

I've gone to the effort of sorting out your dodgy quotes and I'm not even sure where to start on a reply.

Off the record remarks? Like what? He wants to leave. I think we're all pretty accepting of that fact. What exactly do you want the manager to do about it?
The talks according to the club before the world cup  were 'positive and productive' If he had said he was leaving then the least you can say was the club was telling porkies then

His own skin? He's here for another year more whatever happens. How does this situation affect that?

you reckon? i think not.

Every footballer and manager is obsessed with the press and how they are portrayed. So what?

What exactly do "remarks made on here last night by people close to the club show"? Anything or is it just more silly gregnash-style nonsense?

Not sure it you were here Dave but the source was V.good and it didn't give the opinion thats he's well thought of by those in control at the moment

I'm really not sure if you're trying to confuse things with your arguments or your dodgy quoting. But let's try again...

The first point (at least I think it's a point), surely things can change? Maybe in the month that the World Cup was on his potential salary changed from £40k to £120k? Would that not change things a bit? Maybe he was happy before the World Cup and he wasn't after the World Cup? Maybe Barry told him that as soon as you joined Manchester City you get given a gold-plated prostitute and get a street in Harrogate named after you? Do any of us know or are you sticking to you normal conjecture?

you've just come out with a shedload of conjecture and your accusing me of conjecture? he talked to the club before the world cup, they said it was positive and productive. nowt has happened since. As i said he may well have said he wanted to leave but they obviously kept to an agreement to keep quiet which we broke. i'm not on milners side here but i'm not surprised he'd be a bit pissed frankly if his manager chose to break it.P

Point two: Do you think that O'Neill turning Milner from a £12m player to a £25m player inside two years is a black mark against his name whether he stays or goes? If you do, I'd be fascinated to hear your logic.

i really don't know where i've said MON shouldn't get the credit or is that your point. I'm lost frankly. i i would say that selling players for a profit is all very well but it has a limited effect on the team's progress if you flog them halfway through their first contract

[old man villa fan]

I am sorry but I am having difficulty in understanding people siding with Milner in this matter.  If he wanted to leave, fair enough (I don't hold that against him as long as we get a good fee for him) but if he wanted to stay he should have made it very clear to the club that was the case.  Similarly, if he wanted time to make up his mind he should also have made this clear to the club and given a reasonable deadline so that the club could move on, one way or the other during preseason.

Reading between the lines and this is only my opinion, Milner has said that he wants to leave but Man City are messing around and leaving Milner in the open.  MON, quite rightly for the club is trying to force the issue.

The club is bigger than the player and as Villa supporters we should support the clubs stand, particularly as it appears that the player does not want to play for the club again.

Reading some comments on here just smacks of another stick to beat the manager with.

[Dave]

Seriously, three times I've asked. Sort your damn quotes out. I've had to get notepad out to keep track of what your saying. It's not hard.

you've just come out with a shedload of conjecture and your accusing me of conjecture? he talked to the club before the world cup, they said it was positive and productive. nowt has happened since. As i said he may well have said he wanted to leave but they obviously kept to an agreement to keep quiet which we broke. i'm not on milners side here but i'm not surprised he'd be a bit pissed frankly if his manager chose to break it.

Yes I accuse you of conjecture. Mine was hypothetical to point out how ridiculous your standpoint was. I have absolutely no idea what has happened behind the scenes. I do know that Milner wants to leave the club. I don't know all the reasons behind that. I'm quite happy to admit that. You seem pretty confident that all the blame should be laid at the door of the manager. Your crusade may be correct. It may not be. But at least I have the awareness to say that I've not got a clue on the matter. If you want to fill the rest of us in on the special information that you have that helps sway me one way or the other then feel free to divulge it.

i really don't know where i've said MON shouldn't get the credit or is that your point. I'm lost frankly. i i would say that selling players for a profit is all very well but it has a limited effect on the team's progress if you flog them halfway through their first contract

I agree. But it's not a situation that you, I, or O'Neill has a great deal of control over. Do you want him to fund the extra £80k or so that he could be earning per week out of his own pocket? Offer Geraldine as James' personal concubine? Immolate himself on the Holte Steps?

What would you do in his situation to convince him that he shouldn't turn down a massive payrise and the prospect of winning more trophies?

[Greg N'Ash]

Look Dave. the points as i understand it. And i'm not laying the blame at MON's door apart from the way he's handled it


We had talks before the world cup.
The club said they were postive and productive
MON has now said Milner asked to leave during those talks
Milner apparently disagrees.

Now whether you take MON's or Milners word., its pretty obvious someone  at the club was telling porkies whether it was the club and milner originally or MON now. Its not hard really.

[dave.woodhall]

It is possible to have a conversation with both parties sincerely believing entirely different things have been said. Milner could have wanted to keep his options open, Martin could have interpreted his words as wanting to leave.

[Greg N'Ash]

It is possible to have a conversation with both parties sincerely believing entirely different things have been said. Milner could have wanted to keep his options open, Martin could have interpreted his words as wanting to leave.

then why the statement from the club? I can't imagine how 'positive and productive' can be interpreted as Milner asking to leave. my own view is milner probably did ask to leave or was at least very noncommital, but they chose to sit on it for financial [season tickets etc..] and other reasons. I just think MON broke the details of the meeting to cover his own back. may be wrong but there you go.

[march]

It is possible to have a conversation with both parties sincerely believing entirely different things have been said. Milner could have wanted to keep his options open, Martin could have interpreted his words as wanting to leave.

Downing said this week

Speaking to The Sun, Downing, said: "The money they are talking about is a substantial amount for one player.

"If we can replace him with a player of his ability then it's good business.

"They're all going to be fighting for places. It's going to be hard and it will be hard for James if he goes there.

"Will he play? I can't think how many midfielders they've got. I think that will be one of the decisions (that he has to consider): 'Do I want to go there and be a bit-part or stay here and play?'

"That's totally up to him. I am sure he's probably already made his decision."

clear before MON said anything he expects Milner to be in no doubt what he wants