Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[caster troy]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread then if it's nothing to do with summer transfer to VP!

No,i'd like that to be true, certainly an upgrade on Sidders!

[ADVILLAFAN]

I can legally say that it's rumoured that Steeeeevie G may be off to Spain in the Summer (I think)

[Mazrim]

I can legally say that it's rumoured that Steeeeevie G may be off to Spain in the Summer (I think)

With the Scouser Nostra hot on his heels.

[Concrete John]

I thought I'd try and find some data to back up my theory that Bent, although he scores, prevents the team from scoring through their reliance on him, and that when they don't look to him as much he scores fewer goals, and the team scores more. The data goes back to his breakthrough year at Charlton, because I think it would be unfair on Bent as he is now to judge the raw player that appeared in Ipswich colours. So, here are the results:

Sunderland 2009-2010 (so far): Bent - 35 appearances, 23 goals; Sunderland total - 46 goals. Bent % of team goals - an even 50.

Spurs 2008-2009: Bent - 33 appearances, 12 goals; Spurs total - 45 goals. Bent % of team goals - 26.67.

Spurs 2007-2008: Bent - 27 appearances, 7 goals; Spurs total - 66 goals. Bent % of team goals - 10.61.

Charlton 2006-2007: Bent - 32 appearances, 13 goals; Charlton total - 34 goals. Bent % of team goals - 38.24.

Charlton 2005-2006: Bent - 36 appearances, 18 goals; Charlton total - 41 goals. Bent % of team goals - 43.

The season in which Bent played for a team who scored the highest amount of goals was the one where he played the fewest games and scored the fewest goals (thus the lowest percentage of goals). The following year, Bent scored 5 more league goals, played much more games, increased his team goals percentage by 16.06%, and Spurs scored 21 fewer goals. This season he has scored an amazing 50% of Sunderland's goals, but they have three games to become only the second club in Bent's mature career to top 50 goals in a season, and the first with him as a major contributor. They still haven't scored that many as a team, and it's worth noting that Charlton finished 13th and 19th in his two seasons there. Indeed, every time he's gone above 30% of team goals, his team have finished in the bottom half.

The argument I've seen is "he scores loads in bad teams, imagine how many he'd score in a good team", but the facts tell a different story - Darren Bent scores more goals when playing in worse teams, when he is the be-all-and-end-all of their attacks and, you could argue, their whole style of play. Indeed, he may well be helped by his team-mates' ineptitude: he stands out as the goalscorer in a bad team.But if that team is focussing all it's attention on him and he's the stand-out player, and the rest of the team is still bad, then he's clearly not doing anything to make the rest of his team-mates better.

In short, for the kind of money that's been talked about, I'd hope to do much better than a player who only really scores goals in bad teams, because at the top level the team really is everything.

Fair play for going to the trouble of digging those stats up, Monty, but I do think you're viewing them a little in favour of your argument.  When you say 'the better the team the less he scores', that also coincides with him playing less, as Spurs had 4 good strikers, so you could just as easily say 'the more he plays the more he scores'.  Also, your argument is that he gets shown up when he plays in better teams that do not play to his strengths?  Well, for Spurs he hit a total of 19 in 60 games, so 1 in 3, which is still respectable and considering a lot of those would have been sub appearances, very good!

Darren Bent scores more goals when playing in worse teams, when he is the be-all-and-end-all of their attacks and, you could argue, their whole style of play

I agree he'd score more when the team is set up to suit him - who wouldn't? - but do not think this can be translated into a poorer side suiting him!

[pedro25]

When he played for Spurs he was behind Keane and Berbatov who went to the 2 of the best 3 teams in the land at the time, Pool and Man U for 21 and 32.5 mill each, also Defoe who is a regular player and scorer for England.  He might not be their standard but he would be a significant player for us I'm sure.  I think he's probably out of our range now though.

[LeeB]

We don't need Bent. We certainly don't need him at the price he'd be up for.

We need a bloody No.10, in the classic sense. A catalyst to unlock a player we already have who is miles better than Bent anyway.

[Villa'Zawg]

Marca are reporting today that Barca have contacted Villa over a transfer for Ashley at €25m and want to complete the deal before the world cup. They claim that Villa will not raise any obstacles.

I hope it's a load of ol' bollox.

[PaulTheVillan]

I think if Barca offered £25m for him, and we had first option on a buy back if it didn't work out then I'd take it.

[Risso]

Marca are reporting today that Barca have contacted Villa over a transfer for Ashley at €25m and want to complete the deal before the world cup. They claim that Villa will not raise any obstacles.

I hope it's a load of ol' bollox.

Isn't Marca the Spanish equivalent of the Daily Mirror when it comes to truthful football reporting?

[Lee]

Marca are reporting today that Barca have contacted Villa over a transfer for Ashley at €25m and want to complete the deal before the world cup. They claim that Villa will not raise any obstacles.

I hope it's a load of ol' bollox.

Are they normally on the ball with their articles?

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Marca are reporting today that Barca have contacted Villa over a transfer for Ashley at €25m and want to complete the deal before the world cup. They claim that Villa will not raise any obstacles.

I hope it's a load of ol' bollox.

Are they normally on the ball with their articles?

Yes when it comes to Real, no to Barca.
Just read the small article, it's based on Henry going to the States and Barca needing a replacement. Also mentions that Spurs, Man City and Chelsea are interested. My guess is it's bollocks. The Barca fans don't seem too impressed either.

[pedro25]

LeeB, we don't have a player who is miles better than Bent I'm afraid.

[LeeB]

LeeB, we don't have a player who is miles better than Bent I'm afraid.

Gabby is, and will continue to be.

[Monty]

Fair play for going to the trouble of digging those stats up, Monty, but I do think you're viewing them a little in favour of your argument.  When you say 'the better the team the less he scores', that also coincides with him playing less, as Spurs had 4 good strikers, so you could just as easily say 'the more he plays the more he scores'.  Also, your argument is that he gets shown up when he plays in better teams that do not play to his strengths?  Well, for Spurs he hit a total of 19 in 60 games, so 1 in 3, which is still respectable and considering a lot of those would have been sub appearances, very good!

Darren Bent scores more goals when playing in worse teams, when he is the be-all-and-end-all of their attacks and, you could argue, their whole style of play

I agree he'd score more when the team is set up to suit him - who wouldn't? - but do not think this can be translated into a poorer side suiting him!

It certainly does coincide with him playing less, as does the fact that him playing less coincides with Spurs scoring 21 more goals than they did in the following league season.

The point is that stats alone prove nothing here (as they rarely do with anything), but coupled with a cursory glance at playing styles will show you the reason behind those stats is not that Darren Bent is so supremely brilliant that the reason he has a high percentage of goals for those teams is through his individual genius, but through the fact that the rest of the team is totally reliant on him to score, as they are generally a bit like Italian teams from the early 80s - generally defend and work hard, have one or at most two creative players and one goal poacher and play on the counter-attack. Sunderland are a perfect example - Andy Reid is definitely their most creative player, Malbranque is also quite creative although also very hard-working, and they may bring on Zenden from the bench. Even another striker like Kenwyne Jones or Frazer Campbell primarily operate as a selfless type, either through holding up long-balls or chasing long balls into the channels respectively.

Top teams just cannot play like that, as we've found out. In the time we've played a counter-attack based game, as our reputation has built throughout the country, teams have played more defensively at VP and we've found it next to impossible to break teams down. Because Sunderland are a decent team but hardly a world beating one, teams will still attack them home and away, leaving space for Bent on the counter-attack, a luxury rarely afforded to us in the Premier League. Signing Bent would do absolutely nothing about our inability to break down packed defences, as he either does not or cannot contribute anything to a team who have to take the initiative, have to keep possession and break the opposition down, because in that situation all outfield players have to contribute in the build up - meaning that you cannot afford to have a player who's sole point is sniffing around in the penalty area. No top team has that player, not one. Even Defoe drops deep, runs channels, drifts wide and so on. Bent really rarely does that, and anyway Defoe's a much better pure striker because he can conjure up a goal from nothing by his amazing ability to shoot on the turn, something that Bent cannot do.

Our problem isn't necessarily finishing chances, it's creating the bloody things in the first place. I agree with LeeB, we need the extra creative player in midfield to unlock the door. Bent is not the answer, because there is no point in getting someone to finish chances that aren't there.

[KONSPIRACY]

Thats the point though Monty...we are creating chances but more often than not fail to convert them. This is where a proven goalscorer like Bent would improve us and convert chances to goals and draws to wins.

We currently have a number of players who lack movement, shooting power and the basic ability to convert simple chances. If we had a natural predator to feed off the ridiculous amount of crosses we put in and a target man for them to aim for rather than 2 static forwards then the chances are we would be scoring more goals and fewer ppl would be moaning about our style of play as it would be a lot more productive.

It is also a given that we do need a better playmaker in midfield to provide a greater variety in the style of play and create things through the middle.