Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Monty]

We are creating chances though but more often than not fail to convert them. This is where a proven goalscorer like Bent would improve us and convert chances to goals and draws to wins.

I'd really contest that we are creating chances, unless you count every cross into the area that finds the head of a defender as a chance.

[KONSPIRACY]

Read my edit! lol

It is a well known fact that our forwards are very static and lack movement especially in the box, and the wide players crosses would be more productive if they had someone to aim at or feed from their service.

Yes some of the balls into the box dont make it, but they put in a large number of good/dangerous crosses every single game. Obviously a cross only becomes productive if someone is on the end of it and I feel a player like Bent would be able to convert more than the current forwards are able to do so.

A perfect example is the number of games we've started well in the first 20-30 minutes and create numerous chances. How many of those games could have been dead and buried if someone prolific had been on the end of the chances rather than Gabby or Carew fluffing yet another clear cut chance or 1on1?

[Monty]

Konspiracy, you and your crafty edits! That must be the third time or so that's happened.

What I would say to that is firstly that it would make little or no difference whether we had a 'natural predator' in the box or not for those crosses, because they tend to get cleared because of sheer defensive numbers. Another point is that if, as you propose, we put in a more playmaking type into a team with a target-man striker and a poacher like Bent, that would render us so open through the middle it would be like cutting through butter for opposition teams. For me, I don't think Darren Bent can play on his own up front in a team who have to play possession football with three in midfield, which is essentially what we will need.

My final point is that, if this system involving poachers like Bent is so potentially successful, why do absolutely no top sides or managers use them? Inter are the closest to doing so, but Eto'o and Milito are far more well rounded than the likes of Bent. If the goal poacher is still relevant, why do all the best managers ignore them except as a substitute role, like Owen, Inzaghi and Defoe for England (even he has worked hard at his all-round game) have become?

[Mazrim]

Completely unconvinced Monty.

Bent would definitely have made a difference to us this season. Because he's a prolific goalscorer and there were several times this season when we would have converted draws into wins and defeats into draws if we'd had one.

That nous, intuition, postioning, instinct... even luck that prolific goalscorers seem to have. He has it.
Not being a flair player has not stopped him having a very impressive record.

[Monty]

Nothing to do with flair, Maz. Drogba, though skilful, is hardly what I'd call a flair player, though he's the perfect modern centre forward: scores his chances, makes other chances, works hard for the team in the centre and out wide, and so on. Bent only does one of the things a top level centre forward has to be able to do. Torres and Rooney are Drogba plus the type of natural skill we all dream of having, which makes them especially nuts.

I'm unconvinced that with him in the side we'd create any more chances at all - in fact I think we'd create fewer. I really don't think it's as simple as 'being a goalscorer', otherwise we'd all be great managers. The fact that all top managers no longer really use players who are solely goal-poachers like Bent is surely indicative. One or two top managers can make the same mistake, but not all of them.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how having a player who's good at finishing off chances is any use when you don't really make enough chances for even him to finish off. I'd rather have Carew, to be honest - neither works especially hard but, although Bent is the better finisher, Carew can create chances for himself out of nothing, with that amazing ability to roll defenders that he's got. The chance he missed after rolling a defender against Everton is totally indicative of what I mean - Bent would probably have done better with that chance, but he wouldn't have had the chance in the first place.

[KONSPIRACY]

I think you've been reading far too many books Monty!

A player like Bent would simply contribute more goals in the team than our current forwards without changing the style of play, expecting him to become our only option or expecting him to create his own chances.

Would be great to get a Rooney, Torres or Drogba but it's not going to happen any time soon, so adding a natural goalscorer to a team that already DOES create chances is the next best option in addition to a playmaker in midfield (let's leave the formations to another debate!).

Question: do you or have you played football at any level or is your knowledge purely from books you've read?

[Mazrim]

Just going to have to agree to disagree Monty. I just dont see football the way you do.

[eamonn]

Konspiracy, I think you're being pretty patronising to Monty. His knowledge of football stems from books he's read and if he hasn't played he doesn't know what he's talking about?

By the sounds of it, he watches a lot of football and talks a lot of sense. I hadn't considered Bent the way he does but his views are interesting to read as he supports them very well. I'm not sure if I agree fully with his hypothesis but I think his point about comparing Carew and Bent is on the money and one I've not seen anyone make before. Plus, it's refreshing to see someone who loves the game clearly know what they're on about. You carry on Monty lad.

[KONSPIRACY]

Now you're just putting words into my mouth eamonn. Asking whether someones theories come from a book, experience or just as an armchair pundit is a valid question.

Comparing Carew and Bent is like comparing Heskey to Gabby...completely different players, and dismissing Bent as being unable to create his own chances contradicts a number of goals he's scored for Sunderland this season.

I'd have Bent in my team over Carew any day of the week.

[Nastylee]

I'd have loved Bent in out attack, however we should have done it last summer. He'd be overpriced now and Sunderland don't need to let him go on the cheap.

[django]

When Man Utd sold Van Nistelrooy it had a positive effect on the ammount of goals they scored for exactly the sort of reasons that Monty is on about. Ferguson said all he does is get you goals or something, which seemed like an odd comment at the time but it made me look a little more closely at the way that similar players such as Defoe play.

Being a great finisher is one thing but having a player who is always looking to score can be counter productive if it stops them doing the right thing for the team in favour of boosting their goal tally.

Ever played with a better player on your team who has an ambitious effort every time they get near goal? even when you or another player were in better positions? gets on your tits doesn't it? And it doesn't always work out better for the team in the long run, even if they spank one in every now and again and get the glory.

I think that is why managers like Capello aren't looking to start players like Defoe, players who are ultimately a little bit too selfish to do the right thing by the team.

All that said i think we more than most teams need a bit of selfishness in our side, and  a striker who gets in the box consistently, especially if we are going to carry on basing so much of our game on getting crosses in.

I agree with whoever it was (Lee?) who said that Gabby is a better player than Bent, he is, by miles. The only problem is that we seem to have three strikers who do a lot of work holding the ball up deep and chasing it down in the channels and only the inexperienced Delfouneso who shows the knack of getting into scoring positions regularly enough. I agree with many on here over the past season who have suggested that Gabby could do the holding role now and then we could benefit from adding a selfish and mobile striker alongside him.

I think Bent would be too expensive now though for what he offers.

[JJ-AV]

Living in the land of fantasy, I'd love to see us do soemthing like this -

Davies - £5million. 20k a week.
Shorey - £2million. 25k a week.
Beye - £1million. 25k a week.
Salifou - Free. £5k a week.
Osbourne - 500k. £5k a week.
Nige - £5million. 30k a week.
Marlon - Free. 30k a week.
Heskey - £2.5million. 50k a week.

£16million in.
£190k a week off the bill.

Richards - £6million - 40k
Parker - £4million - 40k
Ireland - £11million - 70k
Berbatov - £20million - 80k

£41million out.
230k onto the wage bill.

Net spend - £25million.
Wage bill - increased by £2million a season.

Throw in the signing on/off fees, if Randy's willing to invest £30million again then something like that is very do-able.

But it's incredibly unlikely we'll have that much to spend.

[olaftab]

Bent will not suit our current team. For example if he replaced Gabby we would lose the fast attacking option coming in from left or right. If he replaced Carew we would lose the link play and heading capability. Bent is not good in the  air and I have not seen anything from him to suggest that he can hold the ball up and  create for others.

We 'd have to change our style of play to fit him in .. not necessarily a bad thing but I guess not something likely to happen under MON.

[olaftab]

Living in the land of fantasy, I'd love to see us do soemthing like this -

Berbatov - £20million - 80k

No NEVER. Not even at £10m and 20K a week.

[avfcpg]

Bent or another finisher....plus a midfield playmaker. Our wing options are pretty effective, as is our pace. Trouble is they are are only real options at the moment.

Get us creating through the middle "a la Fabregas" as well, then I reckon we are in business....