Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Monty]

I thought I'd try and find some data to back up my theory that Bent, although he scores, prevents the team from scoring through their reliance on him, and that when they don't look to him as much he scores fewer goals, and the team scores more. The data goes back to his breakthrough year at Charlton, because I think it would be unfair on Bent as he is now to judge the raw player that appeared in Ipswich colours. So, here are the results:

Sunderland 2009-2010 (so far): Bent - 35 appearances, 23 goals; Sunderland total - 46 goals. Bent % of team goals - an even 50.

Spurs 2008-2009: Bent - 33 appearances, 12 goals; Spurs total - 45 goals. Bent % of team goals - 26.67.

Spurs 2007-2008: Bent - 27 appearances, 7 goals; Spurs total - 66 goals. Bent % of team goals - 10.61.

Charlton 2006-2007: Bent - 32 appearances, 13 goals; Charlton total - 34 goals. Bent % of team goals - 38.24.

Charlton 2005-2006: Bent - 36 appearances, 18 goals; Charlton total - 41 goals. Bent % of team goals - 43.

The season in which Bent played for a team who scored the highest amount of goals was the one where he played the fewest games and scored the fewest goals (thus the lowest percentage of goals). The following year, Bent scored 5 more league goals, played much more games, increased his team goals percentage by 16.06%, and Spurs scored 21 fewer goals. This season he has scored an amazing 50% of Sunderland's goals, but they have three games to become only the second club in Bent's mature career to top 50 goals in a season, and the first with him as a major contributor. They still haven't scored that many as a team, and it's worth noting that Charlton finished 13th and 19th in his two seasons there. Indeed, every time he's gone above 30% of team goals, his team have finished in the bottom half.

The argument I've seen is "he scores loads in bad teams, imagine how many he'd score in a good team", but the facts tell a different story - Darren Bent scores more goals when playing in worse teams, when he is the be-all-and-end-all of their attacks and, you could argue, their whole style of play. Indeed, he may well be helped by his team-mates' ineptitude: he stands out as the goalscorer in a bad team.But if that team is focussing all it's attention on him and he's the stand-out player, and the rest of the team is still bad, then he's clearly not doing anything to make the rest of his team-mates better.

In short, for the kind of money that's been talked about, I'd hope to do much better than a player who only really scores goals in bad teams, because at the top level the team really is everything.

[pauliewalnuts]

He's a a score one miss three sort of striker and the rest of his game is not up to scratch, in tight games where you don't get many chances that's not enough.

I just don't get this. Who cares about the rest of his game if he scores that many goals?

If he's a score one miss three sort of striker at somewhere like Sunderland, and he's scored that many goals, how many chances must he be getting?

And how many would he get when supplied with a seemingly endless stream of balls in from the wing with us?

And maybe even a ball through the middle every couple of months?

[phantom limb]

Those stats make sense in a way, because every time I watched Bent play for Spurs I thought he was shite. Even when he scored (and I think he finished their top scorer in the one season), his actual play was consistently bollocks throughout the game.

When we beat Spurs at their place he only scored because someone booted the ball at him and it happened to ricochet past Friedel, that just about sums him up.

[Toronto Villa]

I was rather hoping Sunderland went down so we'd go after Bent. I doubt after all the drama of last summer, he'll be looking to leave, and I very much doubt they'd want to sell at anything like a reasonable price. I mean, why the hell should they?

[Mazrim]

I really dont understand what you're trying to say Monty. It reads like the most convoluted political spin.
So he's been relied upon to score loads of goals? Great. Sign him up then.

At Villa, he would be one of several attackers. If he played for us we would still look to the likes of Carew, Gabby, Milner, Young, Downing etc to score goals. Why would having Bent on the field change that?

He doesn't only score goals in bad teams. He scores goals period. He's only played for one good team and his record was still good despite not playing as often as he should have done.

[caster troy]

While we're talking about 'rumours and wishes' i've heard something interesting about Stevie G today and having just done some digging on the net i'm not the only one who's heard it....

Bullshit or JT mark II?

[KONSPIRACY]

It's not Bents fault if a team isn't good enough to score goals unless he puts the ball in the back of the net or if a manager uses him as the main source of goals. What next...are you going to blame SAF for relying too much on Rooney? You really have taken over complicating things to the next level...we need a goal scorer who will simply pose a threat and be more clinical than our current strikers. If you could compare chances to goal ratios then you may have a worth while argument.

[KevinGage]

My preference would be for a creative 'link' striker, someone who could get the best out of our current mob. I genuinely think Gabby has 20 goals a season in him at some point in the not too distant, and someone capable of spotting his runs and sliding him through might help in that regard.

But it's very hard to argue with Bent's goalscoring record. If we are looking exclusively for a forward who does that above all else -and limiting ourselves to the domestic market- there are few better.

[Monty]

Also when he isn't solely relied upon to score goals, ie he's playing in a good attacking team with goals from everywhere, he doesn't score goals. The year he scored the fewest goals is the year that the team scored by far the highest number of goals, and he played the fewest games in that season as well.

My argument is that he only scores significant goals in limited teams. To play to his strengths, it appears that you have to sacrifice overall team goals.

And Konspiracy, yes, I do think that Man Utd rely too much on Rooney. That over-reliance could have cost them the Champions' League and the title.

[KONSPIRACY]

While we're talking about 'rumours and wishes' i've heard something interesting about Stevie G today and having just done some digging on the net i'm not the only one who's heard it....

Bullshit or JT mark II?

Care to elaborate a little? Source?

[dave.woodhall]

While we're talking about 'rumours and wishes' i've heard something interesting about Stevie G today and having just done some digging on the net i'm not the only one who's heard it....

Bullshit or JT mark II?

Care to elaborate a little? Source?

No.

[Mazrim]

For legal reasons, H & V and members therein are not at liberty to discuss the possibilty that Steve Gerrard has been shagging Gareth Barry.


Again.

[caster troy]

While we're talking about 'rumours and wishes' i've heard something interesting about Stevie G today and having just done some digging on the net i'm not the only one who's heard it....

Bullshit or JT mark II?

Care to elaborate a little? Source?K

Usual 'friend knows someone in the media' stuff, which makes it sound bull shit I know but this source has been right about things before including Terry. I don't want to touch the nature of the story because I wouldn't want to get the site in trouble and my post would be deleted (rightly so).

The rumour itself will probably do the rounds tomorrow but it might not be till the weekend I find out if it turns out to be true.

I actually hope its not true to be honest.

[caster troy]

While we're talking about 'rumours and wishes' i've heard something interesting about Stevie G today and having just done some digging on the net i'm not the only one who's heard it....

Bullshit or JT mark II?

Care to elaborate a little? Source?

No.

Sorry Dave, feel free to delete my last post if you think its too much? I'm no legal expert!

[KONSPIRACY]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread then if it's nothing to do with summer transfer to VP!