Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on November 23, 2024, 05:05:57 PM
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Might be the stopping of the rot you never know. A point is better than none.
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Still 7th after a horrendous run.
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
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Three points off top four, oh the horror!
Need to find our rhythm again and get some reinforcements in January. Too many of our squad aren’t hitting the heights of last season, but there is plenty of game film to study us now.
In Unai we trust, enjoy your weekends.
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Defensively we are a utter and complete mess. Its way too easy to play against at the moment.
One win in 8 is it now? Only chelsea away next 😂
Barkley motm for me
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The last 4 we've conceded have been remarkable. It's almost as if we'd worked on it.
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Too many players off it, especially Rogers and Tielemans. Jaden is a waste of a sub at the moment, I am afraid. There's a lack of precision, confidence and being ruthless. I know everyone is Emery's responsibility in the end, but I think part of the problem is a lack of leaders on the pitch.
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Yep, poor result could have been poorer. Watkins scoring might set him on one of his runs again. But to be scored against from our own corner AGAIN is poor. And we either need to have our defenders deeper, or at least knowing how to keep a line again. For the first, Torres stepped forward with Carlos and Maatsen dropped back which played Sarr onside.
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Three points off top four, oh the horror!
Need to find our rhythm again and get some reinforcements in January. Too many of our squad aren’t hitting the heights of last season, but there is plenty of game film to study us now.
In Unai we trust, enjoy your weekends.
You might want to put your head in the sand and think everything is ok but it isnt.
One win in eight you happy with that? You noticing improvement from last season?
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Yes if Austin McPhee is getting paid for set pieces then he needs to be put on a performance improvement plan.
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
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I love Unai unconditionally and want him to stay forever - obviously - but the last two subs were a mistake and I called it at the time. Rogers and Bailey had had indifferent games but both had had a really good 10 minutes and the team were building up a head of steam. The subs checked our momentum. Philogene, bless him, is hopeless at this level up front (Bayern showed he could make a cracking wing back, his tackling was superb that day) and Emi Buendia through no fault of his own is way off it. Not the situation to ease him back to fitness.
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
It's like groundhog day trying to watch this team defend. Same old issues, week in, week out.
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
Same with me mate.
The players are letting unai and the fans down more than the manager.
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Might be the stopping of the rot you never know. A point is better than none.
We certainly didn't deserve any more. Created lots of chances but we were piss weak without the ball.
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Defensively we are a utter and complete mess. Its way too easy to play against at the moment.
One win in 8 is it now? Only chelsea away next 😂
Barkley motm for me
At least you are here to cheer us all up
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Three points off top four, oh the horror!
Need to find our rhythm again and get some reinforcements in January. Too many of our squad aren’t hitting the heights of last season, but there is plenty of game film to study us now.
In Unai we trust, enjoy your weekends.
You might want to put your head in the sand and think everything is ok but it isnt.
One win in eight you happy with that? You noticing improvement from last season?
I enjoy watching football on the weekend.
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Too many players off it, especially Rogers and Tielemans. Jaden is a waste of a sub at the moment, I am afraid. There's a lack of precision, confidence and being ruthless. I know everyone is Emery's responsibility in the end, but I think part of the problem is a lack of leaders on the pitch.
We know the answer to that.
And it’s coming very soon.
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Bloody hell it’s a very weird phenomenon at the mo. We know Unai is an elite coach, but everything about us screams badly coached - disjointed, incoherent, confused. It’s not great.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
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Three points off top four, oh the horror!
Need to find our rhythm again and get some reinforcements in January. Too many of our squad aren’t hitting the heights of last season, but there is plenty of game film to study us now.
In Unai we trust, enjoy your weekends.
You might want to put your head in the sand and think everything is ok but it isnt.
One win in eight you happy with that? You noticing improvement from last season?
I enjoy watching football on the weekend.
Thanks for not answeing any of the questions 😂
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Defensively we are a utter and complete mess. Its way too easy to play against at the moment.
One win in 8 is it now? Only chelsea away next 😂
Barkley motm for me
At least you are here to cheer us all up
Would it help if i offer a cuddle?
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
Maybe he was disappointed with Unai's choice of wet weather gear and the fact that he didn't score the penalty.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
I agree. We need to go back to basics a bit, and remember how to defend. Torres is great on the ball, but he's an absolute liability when it comes to the actual basic art of stopping the other team from scoring.
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Score the penalty and we probably run out comfortable winners.
We didn't and conceded 30 seconds later and it was another struggle.
We simply are dropping too many points at VP to seriously challenge for top 4/5, Brentford will be a carbon copy of today with their pace upfront.
One thing we need to stop doing is trying to turn Bogarde into a Konsa clone. Infact our right hand side is massively weaker compared to last season and that is hurting us most weeks.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
I agree. We need to go back to basics a bit, and remember how to defend. Torres is great on the ball, but he's an absolute liability when it comes to the actual basic art of stopping the other team from scoring.
Agreed. So where would you play Torres? Midfield? He’s not the quickest.
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Fair play to palace. They exposed our weaknesses today.
Its quite clear id you can counter well against us we just cant handle it defensively at all.
I know ive memtioned this before but we seriously need to get mings in. Pau and mings for me is worth a go. Even if both left sided centre backs. Defensively it cant be much worse than what we have seen in recent games.
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Defensively we are a utter and complete mess. Its way too easy to play against at the moment.
One win in 8 is it now? Only chelsea away next 😂
Barkley motm for me
At least you are here to cheer us all up
Would it help if i offer a cuddle?
Go on then. I’m a friendly chap!
It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
I agree. We need to go back to basics a bit, and remember how to defend. Torres is great on the ball, but he's an absolute liability when it comes to the actual basic art of stopping the other team from scoring.
Agreed. So where would you play Torres? Midfield? He’s not the quickest.
On the bench.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
I agree. We need to go back to basics a bit, and remember how to defend. Torres is great on the ball, but he's an absolute liability when it comes to the actual basic art of stopping the other team from scoring.
Starting to get targeted nearly every week now by meat and drink type forwards.
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Cash coming on helped change the game for us. For all his faults he's got so much tenacity, really helped us retain control in transitions.
But he is only a right back, and transitions happening elsewhere continued to look like a goal against literally every time. There's no fucking pressure in the midfield, and too many players (Bailey and Rogers especially) who are losing it cheaply, often in promising situations.
What would I do? Start only one of them, and wide. Push Tielemans up into 10 and play two midfielders deep who can actually put pressure on the ball when we lose it. Maybe one of them can be McGinn while everyone's out, who knows. But this shape is not working at all right now.
That said, score the penalty and who knows etc etc. Another game we really should've won and didn't because of sloppiness. But, while you can't legislate for things like Mings forgetting which sport he's playing, a lot of this sloppiness is starting to look like (excuse the horrible cliché) not a bug but a feature of how the team are set up. It's got to change.
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Stick Mings in. He was as responsible as anyone for the fantastic run in end of 22-23. We're definitely missing Diaby (at least first half of last season Diaby). I'm all for giving Unai time to work it out, he's going to have bad spells and this is one of them.
I agree. We need to go back to basics a bit, and remember how to defend. Torres is great on the ball, but he's an absolute liability when it comes to the actual basic art of stopping the other team from scoring.
Agreed. So where would you play Torres? Midfield? He’s not the quickest.
Its getting to the point that our defence is so bad we may have to go 3-5-2 mings pau and carlos
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It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
We're going to concede an absolute hatful against Chelsea next week, it won't be pretty. It's OK being only so many points off the top places, but to close the gap you have to stop conceding goals and actually win games.
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Torres can defend, he’s proven it plenty of times - that outstanding run at the start of last season being an obvious example. The defence is being exposed because there are cavernous gaps in the midfield, combined with the sheer inability to control that midfield.
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
It's like groundhog day trying to watch this team defend. Same old issues, week in, week out.
I think Mings (at the level he was under Emery in his first season) has to get back into this team. I haven’t checked the goals against from November 2022 to May 2023 so happy to be proven wrong.
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It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
We're going to concede an absolute hatful against Chelsea next week, it won't be pretty. It's OK being only so many points off the top places, but to close the gap you have to stop conceding goals and actually win games.
Can I have a hug off you rather than Demitri then?
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Cash coming on helped change the game for us. For all his faults he's got so much tenacity, really helped us retain control in transitions.
But he is only a right back, and transitions happening elsewhere continued to look like a goal against literally every time. There's no fucking pressure in the midfield, and too many players (Bailey and Rogers especially) who are losing it cheaply, often in promising situations.
What would I do? Start only one of them, and wide. Push Tielemans up into 10 and play two midfielders deep who can actually put pressure on the ball when we lose it. Maybe one of them can be McGinn while everyone's out, who knows. But this shape is not working at all right now.
That said, score the penalty and who knows etc etc. Another game we really should've won and didn't because of sloppiness. But, while you can't legislate for things like Mings forgetting which sport he's playing, a lot of this sloppiness is starting to look like (excuse the horrible cliché) not a bug but a feature of how the team are set up. It's got to change.
As I said on another thread, there's only so long you can put things down to xG and individual mistakes before you have to conclude that we're just not set up properly. Even after we scored the second today, they had two absolute golden chances roughly 60 seconds straight afterwards.
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The gap to the top 4 is going to stretch and stretch unless we stop being so bloody careless and disjointed.
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I get the frustrations with Torres, but it's the fault of the set-up that he gets so often put in a position where he'd have to be prime Maldini to be expected to deal with everything. Until we sort out the midfield we're going to get punished no matter who we've got sprinting desperately towards our own goal.
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It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
We're going to concede an absolute hatful against Chelsea next week, it won't be pretty. It's OK being only so many points off the top places, but to close the gap you have to stop conceding goals and actually win games.
Can I have a hug off you rather than Demitri then?
A hug? You can have a Pot Noodle AND a reach around. Love you man.
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I get the frustrations with Torres, but it's the fault of the set-up that he gets so often put in a position where he'd have to be prime Maldini to be expected to deal with everything. Until we sort out the midfield we're going to get punished no matter who we've got sprinting desperately towards our own goal.
It is 100% that, the defensive issues are rooted in the utter mess the midfield is. It is not working at all.
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It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
We're going to concede an absolute hatful against Chelsea next week, it won't be pretty. It's OK being only so many points off the top places, but to close the gap you have to stop conceding goals and actually win games.
Can I have a hug off you rather than Demitri then?
I give better cuddles. Or we can make it a three way.
#cuddlefest
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It’s a shit result but still close in the top. Need to adjust some expectations and has been 12 months nearly of inconsistency. I am hoping this is a stop the rot moment and we spring on.
Who knows.
We're going to concede an absolute hatful against Chelsea next week, it won't be pretty. It's OK being only so many points off the top places, but to close the gap you have to stop conceding goals and actually win games.
Can I have a hug off you rather than Demitri then?
A hug? You can have a Pot Noodle AND a reach around. Love you man.
So long as it’s a Bombay bad boy!
I may hide during the chelsea game. Memories of 2012 sat with the noses in the masons in Solihull. The horrors. We may need to get the medics in on here next week
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Positives - Bailey at times looked like his old self, there was flashes of that happy winger from last season. Ollie was sharp and really up for it. Cash made a big difference.
Too many not playing well, not sure why, but if we can start shutting teams out and not have to rely on scoring more than 3 to win, that’s surely the requirement.
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Our players have barely seen each other in last 3 months due to international breaks. We played like it today.
Next international is March. Now plenty of time for Unai to sort things out on the training ground and have us firing on all cylinders come January.
Top four still beckons as only Liverpool showing any consistency and they have not been that brilliant.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience my friends.
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Our players have barely seen each other in last 3 months due to international breaks. We played like it today.
Next international is March. Now plenty of time for Unai to sort things out on the training ground and have us firing on all cylinders come January.
Top four still beckons as only Liverpool showing any consistency and they have not been that brilliant.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience my friends.
A good positive post i wish i was this optimistic- but you are right it is a marathon but we are almost half the season in so we better start improving quick!
Id say there is zero chance there are no signings in January. We will be busy i would imagine as god we need reinforcements
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Relieved for the players. Annoyed with the manager.
Why? I am the opposite. I am annoyed with players under-performing.
It's like groundhog day trying to watch this team defend. Same old issues, week in, week out.
Exactly. We've been a car crash at the back for months now, yet I see nothing to suggest this is improving. It's almost as though he revels in "you score two, we'll score three". Now we've stopped doing that, he's exposed.
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It's inescapable that with Torres at the back - as fabulous as he is at some of the other stuff - we are weaker defensively.
Him and Carlos together for any period of time is asking for trouble.
The hope is that Mings can come back and hit the levels he previously did. But it is only hope, with an injury that severe.
If that doesn't work Unai might need to be more pragmatic and invest in CB who will -realistically - be starting over both Torres and Mings.
Links with Laporte at Real Betis during the week. But that looks like more of the same, TBH.
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It's inescapable that with Torres at the back - as fabulous as he is at some of the other stuff - we are weaker defensively.
On the flip side we don't score the first goal without Torres initial pass between the lines.
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It's inescapable that with Torres at the back - as fabulous as he is at some of the other stuff - we are weaker defensively.
Him and Carlos together for any period of time is asking for trouble.
The hope is that Mings can come back and hit the levels he previously did. But it is only hope, with an injury that severe.
If that doesn't work Unai might need to be more pragmatic and invest in CB who will -realistically - be starting over both Torres and Mings.
Links with Laporte at Real Betis during the week. But that looks like more of the same, TBH.
I’m not sure it’s inescapable- he played in the run when we we really good last year didn’t he? The difference is our midfield is.
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Defensively terrible yet again from front to back. There seems to be no cover in front of the back 4 when we lose the ball in midfield. It’s like a straight line and as soon as the opposition pass it through us they are straight into the defence.
It has to improve otherwise we won’t be going anywhere.
Saying that, Watkins had enough chances to score 3 and I think it’s time for Duran to start a league game now. We cannot keep missing chances after chance.
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As long as we keep being easy to score against, we'll struggle to get results.
The first goal is 1 pass to find space behind Barkely and another to feed their player through. The 2nd is a copy of the Liverpool goal and an awful one to concede.
You need to take chances. Palace are 18th, 1 win all season, they're dross and in the relegation zone for a reason. But if you make it easy for sides with gifts or predicatable patterns of play, you'll struggle to get a result. You cannot gift a penalty opportunity.
Lots of factors. Form is one. Bailey is not contributing anything at all. No goals, no assists, worse, little to no percentage ball as he refuses to cross with his right. He's very easy to funnel and check back to allow them into a better defensive shape.
Tielemans without the physical protection today looked off and his form has followed suit. Delayed the pass, not that there was much movement.
Rogers. He's still way off it. His first touch has abandoned him. That air shot early on perhaps symptomatic.
But then that's the other issue. The system is designed to go through him. We're so slow in feeding the ball or in transition in general of late, that he's easy to smother. If it's not going through him, we look clueless.
The last 6 minutes of injury time today, we created nothing. In fact we didn't even get in their box. We barely made Henderson do anything from open play. Atrocious performance, meanwhile they had a shot and a cross.
It's just not been good enough of late and the defence, which I'll save for last, doesn't get off. Carlos was due to be sold for a reason. He is nowhere near the quality we need. Konsa, obviously injured today, but needs to play at centre half. He is our best defender. I cannot fathom Bogarde beyond Cash not being fit- I can accept that.
No Emery side ever defends well, but this is going to cost us if it continues. We need, for me, a pivot of Onana and critically, Kamara. I think Rogers needs to go wide and Bailey needs to be out the side, with a replacement in January. That is not Philogene, who has not contributed anything attack wise all season.
I'm not sure if I read it on here or heard it elsewhere, but somebody said the Villa never break a losing run with a win. I remembered that before the game and it definitely came to mind when the first went in.
We need better. Much better.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cwy9204l4wyt
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We haven’t looked right since the start of the season - we got away with it initially - often inspired by Duran. But it looks a long way off where we need to be.
At the time I thought the summer business was questionable we seem to have weakened the first team - and the added depth hasn’t helped.
I think ultimately - none of the business was stuff we wanted to do. It’s was an all around gambling to try and stay within ffp.
For the first time, I worry that Unai doesn’t know how to fix this. Our transfer wheeling and dealering hasn’t really worked out are squads weaker and key players are injured and out of form.
Our Defense is a mess - that needs to be sorted as we’re gifting way too many goals. But it been like that for ages and is just getting worse.
My nagging worry is how low can we get away with finishing before it causes bigger issues like key players wanting to leave etc
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Bloody hell it’s a very weird phenomenon at the mo. We know Unai is an elite coach, but everything about us screams badly coached - disjointed, incoherent, confused. It’s not great.
Paralysis of analysis - I think that’s what it’s called - might be a risk. the players are so overloaded with information that the instinctive element of their game has been forgotten.
That said, I only saw the last 20 minutes and thought we were generally pretty decent. Just lacking in confidence and luck.
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Good post ads
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Ifs buts and maybes.
But for a brilliant save by Emi at the end we lose that game, go into the break in the lead from scoring the pen I felt we would win with ease. Fine margins.
Thought Rogers was anonymous
McGinn poor
Carlos too sloppy and too lackadaisical
Tielemans shit pen or great save? Not sure till I see it again
Philogene is a waste of a shirt
Better
Watkins scored a great goal
Bailey was better
Barkley very tidy
Must admit I thought palaces last ditch tackling was superb
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I'm not going to argue with any of the assessments of our team, all perfectly reasonable.
What I will argue with is the nonsense of VAR who saw a penalty that absolutely nobody appealed for or who wanted.
Now, we may have scored and won the game and it's our fault that we didn't but this sort of reffing the game from afar is absolute bollocks. The same level of scrutiny was missing up in Liverpool.
Many may cry that it was the correct decision, and perhaps it was, but it still smacks of "have a look if you feel like it".
The ref was appalling, and I like to defend officials but alongside a piss poor showing from us, the crap that we have to endure from refs, where inconsistency seems to be the watchword drives me mad
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I thought Bailey looked much brighter today.
Would still like to see us bring in an option to play that side when he's off it or knackered.
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If Ads is posting that it must be worrying.
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I'm not going to argue with any of the assessments of our team, all perfectly reasonable.
What I will argue with is the nonsense of VAR who saw a penalty that absolutely nobody appealed for or who wanted.
Now, we may have scored and won the game and it's our fault that we didn't but this sort of reffing the game from afar is absolute bollocks. The same level of scrutiny was missing up in Liverpool.
Many may cry that it was the correct decision, and perhaps it was, but it still smacks of "have a look if you feel like it".
The ref was appalling, and I like to defend officials but alongside a piss poor showing from us, the crap that we have to endure from refs, where inconsistency seems to be the watchword drives me mad
Nev i am confused are you saying that wasnt a pen for us? It was a penalty
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Too many players off it, especially Rogers and Tielemans. Jaden is a waste of a sub at the moment, I am afraid. There's a lack of precision, confidence and being ruthless. I know everyone is Emery's responsibility in the end, but I think part of the problem is a lack of leaders on the pitch.
Couldn't agree more and the lack of leaders on the pitch is something I've been thinking about this week. We're just too nice and everybody is waiting for somebody else to take responsibility. I know we've had our injury problems over the last 12 months but we seem to avoid 50/50 challenges now. Big, strong teams like Palace, even smaller teams bully us and we don't even put up a fight. It wasn't until the 80th+ minute when Little Emi showed a bit of grit, much to the cheers from the fans, to remind Palace we weren't a team of weaklings.
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Disappointing but at least we didn’t lose and have somewhat stopped the rot but god does our defending in transition need some work. Scores on the doors:
Martinez- 7 that finger tip save onto the post in the 2nd half was superb. Couldn’t do anything about either of the goals. He must feel like Moses at the moment with our defence parting like the Red Sea at every opportunity.
Bogarde - 6 quite what he’s supposed to do here as he was in acres of space in the first half but no one passes to him.
Carlos - 5 hmmm. Just too slow with some
Properly aimless long passes.
Torres - 5 his passing was getting back to better levels but he’s not hitting the heights we know he can.
Maatsen - 5 has an annoying tendency to turn into trouble and lose the ball not too much offensive impact.
Tielemans - 5 one of Youris poorer games topped off with a penalty miss
Barkley - 5 I didn’t think Ross played well today but scores so extra point
Bailey - 6 slowly getting better and had a very good spell at the start of the second half.
Rogers - 4 really poor, lost possession numerous times and ran up every blind alley he could. Looks tired in thought and deed.
McGinn - 6 usual energetic display from Meatball but not much to show for his efforts.
Watkins - 6 scored and missed the chances which could have given him a hat trick and us the 3 points.
Cash - 6 provided much needed impetus on our right when he came on.
Digne - 5 no real impact
Duran - 4 no real impact
Buendia - 4 no real impact
Philogene - 4 no real impact
I think Unai was happy with the point and saving some energy for Wednesday night hence the subs. We’re not playing too badly but desperately need to use our width better to stop teams strangling us in the middle of the pitch. Our defending in transition is appalling and that needs sorting. Conditions were crap today and I thought the ref was a total prick for everyone.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/aston-villa-vs-c-palace/report/505918
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Tielemans shit pen or great save? Not sure till I see it again.
It was a shit penalty.
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At least we didn't lose 7-0, and AV84's career as a soothsayer proved short-lived.
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Shit pen
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Biblical rain at Villa Park today, felt sorry for fans in front rows. Games wise 3 positives. We didn’t lose, we came back twice and Ollie scored. Negatives:
Horrific defending and it’s got nothing to do with hi line. Breakaways are too easy for the opposition.
Morgan Rogers
Leon Bailey
Diego Carlos
Unforgivable penalty missed. If we score they don’t score second goal.
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Really frustrating. Palace are a poor side without their most creative player and they cut through us at will. Our midfield just offer no defensive cover so one ball through and suddenly there were 3 Palace attackers running at our defence.
Again, we insist on this dreary walking football tempo which I cannot see any benefit from.
There are multiple problems which keep on being repeated game after game.
Worrying.
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The lack of pace in our centre backs is alarming, we have been caught out by the ball over the top too many times. Rogers needs to be given a rest, Carlos needs to be sold.
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Why are people annoyed with Emery? How about because you had to be blind not to see the train wreck that is our defense. Been bad all calendar year. Nothing was done to remedy it and then, to cap it off, he starts Bogarde who is terrible at present. Maybe he gets better, but he is terrible right now.
I love and trust Unai, but to act like he is getting it right and the players are not executing is part of the story, but he has to shoulder some of the blame, too. We have been getting burned by counter attack goals and yet, after working hard for two weeks (according to reports), that is the best he could come up with?
I trust him to get it right eventually, but he has been off it, too.
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Disappointing but at least we didn’t lose and have somewhat stopped the rot but god does our defending in transition need some work. Scores on the doors:
Martinez- 7 that finger tip save onto the post in the 2nd half was superb. Couldn’t do anything about either of the goals. He must feel like Moses at the moment with our defence parting like the Red Sea at every opportunity.
Bogarde - 6 quite what he’s supposed to do here as he was in acres of space in the first half but no one passes to him.
Carlos - 5 hmmm. Just too slow with some
Properly aimless long passes.
Torres - 5 his passing was getting back to better levels but he’s not hitting the heights we know he can.
Maatsen - 5 has an annoying tendency to turn into trouble and lose the ball not too much offensive impact.
Tielemans - 5 one of Youris poorer games topped off with a penalty miss
Barkley - 5 I didn’t think Ross played well today but scores so extra point
Bailey - 6 slowly getting better and had a very good spell at the start of the second half.
Rogers - 4 really poor, lost possession numerous times and ran up every blind alley he could. Looks tired in thought and deed.
McGinn - 6 usual energetic display from Meatball but not much to show for his efforts.
Watkins - 6 scored and missed the chances which could have given him a hat trick and us the 3 points.
Cash - 6 provided much needed impetus on our right when he came on.
Digne - 5 no real impact
Duran - 4 no real impact
Buendia - 4 no real impact
Philogene - 4 no real impact
I think Unai was happy with the point and saving some energy for Wednesday night hence the subs. We’re not playing too badly but desperately need to use our width better to stop teams strangling us in the middle of the pitch. Our defending in transition is appalling and that needs sorting. Conditions were crap today and I thought the ref was a total prick for everyone.
TBH I think we're playing pretty badly. We rarely look like scoring from open play. Palace, Bournemouth, Ipswich all will have thought they should have beaten us given there chances. We havent layed a glove on any of the better teams we have played in the league. We scraped wins against Wolves and Everton.
Only against Bologana this season have I thought - we showed what we're capable of.
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From my seat on the half way line Crystal Palace had the perfect tactics to handle us. A back line of five with five in central midfield in a box in front of them when defending.
This completely stopped us building slow methodical attacks through Barkley, Tielemans and Rogers.
The obvious approach was for us to use the width but the passes weren’t there and Maatsen played strangely deep. Bailey got better as the game went on when he finally dared go around the outside.
I think we’ve been rumbled now along with our bizarre approach to corners which leaves us so exposed.
No doubt Juventus have been watching closely.
Finally goodness knows what Monchi’s role at the Club is. We didn’t replace Luiz and signed players playing in England and two make weights from Juve.
It’s strange but as we got heavily ambitious off the pitch we got complacent on it!
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Bayern?
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Memo to Unai
SORT
OUT
THE
DEFENCE
Sieves and colanders belong in the kitchen, not on the pitch.
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Memo to Unai
SORT
OUT
THE
DEFENCE
Sieves and colanders belong in the kitchen, not on the pitch.
Sort of the midfield and the defence will sort itself.
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Bayren was a great result and tactically spot on, I didnt think we played great but executed a game plan perfectly. But in the 9 games since then - we have only beaten Bolonga and Fulham.
Edit: Ah - sorry I said "showed what we're capable off" - I meant to say "showed what we're capable off going forward"
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I agree entirely we need Onana and Kamara fit and they both need to play in the base of midfield. We have to start getting a semblance of stability in midfield.
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From my seat on the half way line Crystal Palace had the perfect tactics to handle us. A back line of five with five in central midfield in a box in front of them when defending.
This completely stopped us building slow methodical attacks through Barkley, Tielemans and Rogers.
The obvious approach was for us to use the width but the passes weren’t there and Maatsen played strangely deep. Bailey got better as the game went on when he finally dared go around the outside.
I think we’ve been rumbled now along with our bizarre approach to corners which leaves us so exposed.
No doubt Juventus have been watching closely.
Finally goodness knows what Monchi’s role at the Club is. We didn’t replace Luiz and signed players playing in England and two make weights from Juve.
It’s strange but as we got heavily ambitious off the pitch we got complacent on it!
Surely it was Onanas fault today?
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Onnana and Kamara as a double pivot - Teilemanns as 10, Ramsey left, Rogers rightI think would be best.
Reliant on Ramsey and Kamara staying fit though
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Before the game kicked off you could see how weak our central midfield was. Great players that Tielemans and Barkley are there is no steel. I'd have put SJM in there
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I haven’t read the thread, but so many talking points.
2 weeks planning down the shitter after 3 mins. A poxy, poxy goal to concede, but one that one again highlights our complete lack of pace and physicality at the back.
The only defender who would have dealt with that situation was Mings.
Tielemans had his worst game since joining. Not only was it a shit penalty, but he got caught in possession too many times and wanted 5 touches too many every time he had the ball.
Rogers has dropped off a cliff, so quickly. His touch was awful, time and time again.
Maybe he needs a proper rest ?
I thought Bogarde did well, but cash definitely offered more attacking threat.
Bailey played himself into game and after a truly woeful 30 mins got bettter.
After a shit penalty we get a corner and exactly like in our last game, we concede from it.
How exactly the fuck does that happen ??
But again, my biggest bugbear is our inability to show any drive, power or urgency. Especially late in the game.
I know our game is based on patience and possession, but Christ, we HAVE to mix it up, and speed it up, especially when we are chasing a win.
It’s like we believe our own press now. And all the success we have playing this way, means it’s the only way to play.
Clearly it’s not working at the moment and unai has got to find a way of making us quicker.
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Might be the stopping of the rot you never know. A point is better than none.
We certainly didn't deserve any more. Created lots of chances but we were piss weak without the ball.
We weren't any better with the ball with the exception of Barkley. Far too slow, no chance of catching Palace on the counter. We really missed a proper defensive midfielder to give the back 4 some cover, Tielemans is not such a player - He looked like he had been watching old videos of Ray 'Crab' Wilkins. Bogarde does not look like he'll make a right back, why not give 'Ned a chance ?
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Before the game kicked off you could see how weak our central midfield was. Great players that Tielemans and Barkley are there is no steel. I'd have put SJM in there
I think there both too attacking minded - deep lying playmakers rather than base of the team
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Defensively we were shocking today
That’s it, that’s the post
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From my seat on the half way line Crystal Palace had the perfect tactics to handle us. A back line of five with five in central midfield in a box in front of them when defending.
Really? So we scored two against that perfection and could have had two or three more if Ollie and Morgan had been a bit more composed.
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Barkley was good on the ball and Tielemans wasn’t awful but off the ball they were not so good. I thought McGinn was going to come back from Scotland full of energy, but he wasn’t great.
Rogers’s form has been slipping for a while and today he was really out of form.
The openness and slowness at the back was awful at times and I can only assume Cash wasn’t fully fit as playing Bogarde made no sense.
Buendia and Philogene came on to no effect at all again, just when we needed impetus to go and win.
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We need Kamara back. That's the issue.
Barkley is looking good.
Pissed off with that result but we're 3 points from 3rd and 4 from 2nd. No need to panic.
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Konsa, Mings, Torres, Digne
When Konsa’s back that should be the four for me
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Konsa, Mings, Torres, Digne
When Konsa’s back that should be the four for me
Id love to see that back four even if its dominated by left sided defenders. I mwan lets be real it cant be any worse than these horrible defensive displays we have seen this season
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Last season two points at home against Sheff United and Brentford. Did that not scream like a top 4 team?
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I thought we looked decent going forward for the most part and could easily have scored more.
Defensively we were all over the shop yet again.
That end of first half was such a sliding doors moment and so disastrous from our point of view it was almost comical. 2-1 to us at half time and we win it comfortably.
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Two points at home to Bournemouth and palace doesnt scream like a team thats going to be getting top 6 this season.
Last season two points at home against Sheff United and Brentford. Did that not scream like a top 4 team?
Yeah but compare the first half of the season to this season? Its no comparison
Its just papering the cracks. We have massive problems this season. One win in eight doesnt scream champions league contenders.
We are incapable of keeping clean sheets, unable to do the basics of defending and we are missing so many chances. Add the fact the squad looks weaker than last year too and teams like spurs, chelsea look better this year
I cant see us finishing top five unless we spend big in January which is unlikely
Obviously plenty of time to change but boy does it need to happen quick.
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As long as we keep being easy to score against, we'll struggle to get results.
The first goal is 1 pass to find space behind Barkely and another to feed their player through. The 2nd is a copy of the Liverpool goal and an awful one to concede.
You need to take chances. Palace are 18th, 1 win all season, they're dross and in the relegation zone for a reason. But if you make it easy for sides with gifts or predicatable patterns of play, you'll struggle to get a result. You cannot gift a penalty opportunity.
Lots of factors. Form is one. Bailey is not contributing anything at all. No goals, no assists, worse, little to no percentage ball as he refuses to cross with his right. He's very easy to funnel and check back to allow them into a better defensive shape.
Tielemans without the physical protection today looked off and his form has followed suit. Delayed the pass, not that there was much movement.
Rogers. He's still way off it. His first touch has abandoned him. That air shot early on perhaps symptomatic.
But then that's the other issue. The system is designed to go through him. We're so slow in feeding the ball or in transition in general of late, that he's easy to smother. If it's not going through him, we look clueless.
The last 6 minutes of injury time today, we created nothing. In fact we didn't even get in their box. We barely made Henderson do anything from open play. Atrocious performance, meanwhile they had a shot and a cross.
It's just not been good enough of late and the defence, which I'll save for last, doesn't get off. Carlos was due to be sold for a reason. He is nowhere near the quality we need. Konsa, obviously injured today, but needs to play at centre half. He is our best defender. I cannot fathom Bogarde beyond Cash not being fit- I can accept that.
No Emery side ever defends well, but this is going to cost us if it continues. We need, for me, a pivot of Onana and critically, Kamara. I think Rogers needs to go wide and Bailey needs to be out the side, with a replacement in January. That is not Philogene, who has not contributed anything attack wise all season.
I'm not sure if I read it on here or heard it elsewhere, but somebody said the Villa never break a losing run with a win. I remembered that before the game and it definitely came to mind when the first went in.
We need better. Much better.
You saved me having to write a post. An awful performance against a really poor team. Anyone who thinks we don’t have problems is putting their heads in the sand.
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We need Kamara back. That's the issue.
Barkley is looking good.
Pissed off with that result but we're 3 points from 3rd and 4 from 2nd. No need to panic.
Are you new to this forum :-)?
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Konsa, Mings, Torres, Digne
When Konsa’s back that should be the four for me
If we don’t stop teams just running through the midfield it doesn’t matter who’s back there. We are so bloody easy to play against.
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Powderpuff stuff through the middle. Defence is so lightweight.
Bailey gets ripped apart by the fans, but Rogers was by far the worst today, and has been bad for a fair few games now.
Ollie the only player that come out of today with any credit.
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Rodgers was garbage today and to be fair, has been did the past few games. Needs a spell out but unless a change shape I don’t think we have any other viable options
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Konsa, Mings, Torres, Digne
When Konsa’s back that should be the four for me
If we don’t stop teams just running through the midfield it doesn’t matter who’s back there. We are so bloody easy to play against.
I know onana was bought in to help with that but even with in there he hasnt really helped.
This is why i find it utterly bizarre why we loaned out enzo. He could have really helped us out right now
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Thought a draw was probably fair overall. Both defences were a bit naff. Like Drummond said, Barkley was very decent. A very good addition for nothing.
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The chances/goals we’ve started giving away from corners are bordering on utter negligence now.
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The last set of subs killed our monentum. Rogers, who I agree was mostly terrible, had started coming into it. Bailey had been pretty decent second half. Buendia got in the way. Philogene offers nothing, as others have said.
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The last set of subs killed our monentum. Rogers, who I agree was mostly terrible, had started coming into it. Bailey had been pretty decent second half. Buendia got in the way. Philogene offers nothing, as others have said.
Agree neither of these are the answer to any question were likely to be asked. Particularly not when looking to turn a game around
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We’re definitely not being helped by Philogene and Buendia offering absolutely nothing at all.
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We’re definitely not being helped by Philogene and Buendia offering absolutely nothing at all.
Agree with that Paul. I think buendia needs to be moved on and jaden may have to if he doesnt improve in next 12 months
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It was a game we really should've won, and could've lost. Ollie Watkins really should've scored at least 1 more, we missed a penalty, hit the post/bar and had loads of menacing crosses that on another day would've yielded goals. And then, we also let them waltz through a few times.
The balance is off and I felt like we needed more aggression all over the pitch - it was all too nice. Rogers, my favourite player of recent months, looks like he's playing within himself. That said, when he went off we barely had an attack (Buendia, nope, not anymore). Bailey started awfully, but grew into the game (Jayden P, nope, not yet).
Another frustrating result.
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Buendia did a couple of decent things. Philogene seems good at standing in the right place (not a knock, actually a hard skill to learn!), but I'm not sure he's actually contributed one dangerous attacking moment this season.
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It was a game we really should've won, and could've lost. Ollie Watkins really should've scored at least 1 more, we missed a penalty, hit the post/bar and had loads of menacing crosses that on another day would've yielded goals. And then, we also let them waltz through a few times.
The balance is off and I felt like we needed more aggression all over the pitch - it was all too nice. Rogers, my favourite player of recent months, looks like he's playing within himself. That said, when he went off we barely had an attack (Buendia, nope, not anymore). Bailey started awfully, but grew into the game (Jayden P, nope, not yet).
Another frustrating result.
What was up with ollie today? At some points he looked terrified to shoot ? I think it was second half he went clear through delayed and then the palace defender caught up and stopped him having a effort.
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I dont really get the whole rogers thing. I'll admit I havent watched as many games as I would have liked in 2024 - but to me he looks a decent prospect but, to have him at the center of our system seems a big ask.
Thats not knocking him - I can see hes physical and talented but his decision making and executation seem off to me. I have missed some of the games where people have been like "Rogers was amazing" tbf.
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Watched from the lower north today which gave me a different perspective and watching us be so sloooooooooow from the back did my head in. Why does Carlos amble forward a few yards, stop, have think, then pass it to cash. Why can’t we move the ball quicker 😤
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I dont really get the whole rogers thing. I'll admit I havent watched as many games as I would have liked in 2024 - but to me he looks a decent prospect but, to have him at the center of our system seems a big ask.
Thats not knocking him - I can see hes physical and talented but his decision making and executation seem off to me. I have missed some of the games where people have been like "Rogers was amazing" tbf.
He had a run of games early in the season where I thought he was approaching being unplayable. I guess he's like most other young players inasmuch as he's susceptible to a poor run of form. I thought he was poor first half but got better rather than worse - we looked completely toothless after he went off.
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It was a game we really should've won, and could've lost. Ollie Watkins really should've scored at least 1 more, we missed a penalty, hit the post/bar and had loads of menacing crosses that on another day would've yielded goals. And then, we also let them waltz through a few times.
The balance is off and I felt like we needed more aggression all over the pitch - it was all too nice. Rogers, my favourite player of recent months, looks like he's playing within himself. That said, when he went off we barely had an attack (Buendia, nope, not anymore). Bailey started awfully, but grew into the game (Jayden P, nope, not yet).
Another frustrating result.
What was up with ollie today? At some points he looked terrified to shoot ? I think it was second half he went clear through delayed and then the palace defender caught up and stopped him having a effort.
From Trinity Upper I couldn't tell how much that was Ollie's fault or good defending. My Dad was in Holte Lower and said Ollie should have buried it.
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I dont really get the whole rogers thing. I'll admit I havent watched as many games as I would have liked in 2024 - but to me he looks a decent prospect but, to have him at the center of our system seems a big ask.
Thats not knocking him - I can see hes physical and talented but his decision making and executation seem off to me. I have missed some of the games where people have been like "Rogers was amazing" tbf.
Early in the season he was brilliant, he’s just dipped off in form. Not sure how much is him or something wider going on with the structure of the team. Far too many players are off form for it down to individuals.
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Watched from the lower north today which gave me a different perspective and watching us be so sloooooooooow from the back did my head in. Why does Carlos amble forward a few yards, stop, have think, then pass it to cash. Why can’t we move the ball quicker 😤
Carlos is shite at playing the ball forwards. He's ponderous as a result. He really does need replacing in January.
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It was a game we really should've won, and could've lost. Ollie Watkins really should've scored at least 1 more, we missed a penalty, hit the post/bar and had loads of menacing crosses that on another day would've yielded goals. And then, we also let them waltz through a few times.
The balance is off and I felt like we needed more aggression all over the pitch - it was all too nice. Rogers, my favourite player of recent months, looks like he's playing within himself. That said, when he went off we barely had an attack (Buendia, nope, not anymore). Bailey started awfully, but grew into the game (Jayden P, nope, not yet).
Another frustrating result.
What was up with ollie today? At some points he looked terrified to shoot ? I think it was second half he went clear through delayed and then the palace defender caught up and stopped him having a effort.
From Trinity Upper I couldn't tell how much that was Ollie's fault or good defending. My Dad was in Holte Lower and said Ollie should have buried it.
Yeah was more ollie tbh mate. A bit of hesitation from him today. Scored a excellent goal so showed he has the confidence. But at other parts of the game he looked really low on confidence
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I dont really get the whole rogers thing. I'll admit I havent watched as many games as I would have liked in 2024 - but to me he looks a decent prospect but, to have him at the center of our system seems a big ask.
Thats not knocking him - I can see hes physical and talented but his decision making and executation seem off to me. I have missed some of the games where people have been like "Rogers was amazing" tbf.
Agreed. On current form he would only be on Middelsboughs bench.
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I thought we were fortunate to get the penalty to be honest, but then lacked the ruthlessness we need by placing it at such a comfortable height for their keeper to save it. Crap penalty, but at least we know who is taking them! We always seem to underperform before and after a Euro game. 32 players came and went in the summer and yet we seem passive, lacking pace, creativity and cannot keep a clean sheet for love nor money.
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Just back from Aston, jesus if the weather was bad our performance was worse.
We are awful defensively and have become boring and turgid to watch .
Our defence is an absolute car crash and has been for well over a year now. The real worry is Emery isn't doing anything about it and it's getting worse by the week .
Palace are awful but they looked the better more organised team . The cracks are growing wider and wider .
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Just got back through the storm ridden motorway.
We are slow going fwd, only paler with real.pace is Bailey, he was awful 1st half, 2nd half better. Rogers was poor. McGinn was good as was Pau. Too many players out today and it showed. Barkley was ok but again, slow at key times.
Our defence really needs sorting, Palace looked like scoring overtime they ran at us.
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
Yeah he was absolute garbage in our brilliant run in the first half of last season….
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Agreed. On current form he would only be on Middelsboughs bench.
Complete bollox. He's not at his best but you....
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
Yeah he was absolute garbage in our brilliant run in the first half of last season….
i said "today" and actually this season generally he looks a liability and weak , our defence is a mess and he's at the heart of it
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
Yeah he was absolute garbage in our brilliant run in the first half of last season….
i said "today" and actually this season generally he looks a liability and weak , our defence is a mess and he's at the heart of it
And it was brilliant when he was at the heart of it last year. Suggests to me it’s not actually the defence that’s the cause - it is completely exposed because the midfield does nothing to screen it. The midfield is the main problem.
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I think its both the midfield and defence.
No protection from the midfield to help , and some pretty woeful defending as a whole. Oue best defender was cash who came on at half time
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
Yeah he was absolute garbage in our brilliant run in the first half of last season….
i said "today" and actually this season generally he looks a liability and weak , our defence is a mess and he's at the heart of it
And it was brilliant when he was at the heart of it last year. Suggests to me it’s not actually the defence that’s the cause - it is completely exposed because the midfield does nothing to screen it. The midfield is the main problem.
I agree , the midfield is porous, week after week teams walk through us and it is just like we experienced under Smith.
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Philogene's just a shit version of El Ghazi. He should be on loan at a Championship club until he improves.
Failing to replace Diaby is costing us. He wasn't great, but he still chipped in with goals and assists.
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Philogene's just a shit version of El Ghazi. He should be on loan at a Championship club until he improves.
Failing to replace Diaby is costing us. He wasn't great, but he still chipped in with goals and assists.
Agree Sam that and not getting a right back in two of the biggest errors
El ghazi was better than Philogene i agree
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Could have won it, could have lost it. In the end we got a point which keeps us in touch with the top four. Onwards and upwards!
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Could have won it, could have lost it. In the end we got a point which keeps us in touch with the top four. Onwards and upwards!
Positivity. I like it.
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We miss Diaby, pure and simple. He had more quality than a lot on here gave credit for.
We replaced him with an ex-youth team player in Jaden who had one good year in the championship, he is nowhere near Diabys level.
The backup to Ollie is an untried and often erratic young player, so no real alternative in Duran than last season, yes he has the odd glimpse of greatness but then equally does nothing for several games.
Luiz is also a big miss in the middle, Tielemans has a couple of good games and then disappears for the next.
We are worse off than last season squad wise IMO and it is showing
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We do miss Diaby, he was far from perfect but he did deliver output and gave us pace. We need to replace and haven’t.
The big miss is the combination of Doug and Kamara, they balanced the midfield perfect allowing the defence protection and linking up the attack. Somehow we need to replicate that.
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Ifs buts and maybes.
But for a brilliant save by Emi at the end we lose that game, go into the break in the lead from scoring the pen I felt we would win with ease. Fine margins.
Thought Rogers was anonymous
McGinn poor
Carlos too sloppy and too lackadaisical
Tielemans shit pen or great save? Not sure till I see it again
Philogene is a waste of a shirt
Better
Watkins scored a great goal
Bailey was better
Barkley very tidy
Must admit I thought palaces last ditch tackling was superb
McGinn’s assist was brilliant. Faded in the second half but poor is harsh.
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The overwhelming feeling from this game was that, though we had the lion's share of the ball and chances, Palace could score every time they attacked. It was far too easy for them to run directly at our centre backs (poor from our central midfielders), and we did not have an answer to Mateta's physicality (poor from our centre backs).
Good to see Ollie score, but it didn't seem to give him a lift.
Is there something rotten in Elsinor?
Bailey was better than of late, but Rogers anonymous.
In midfield, Tielemans was ponderous on the ball (actually, was he fit?) - harking back to his early appearances last year. Barkley, as a pair with Tielemans, didn't convince (though he played quite well himself).
I disagree with some posts I've read regarding Philogene and Buendia: Jaden at last got himself down the line and centred the ball on one occasion. Buendia brought us a little bit of nous, niggle and presence. In any event, it wasn't down to them that we didn't win.
It was a wild, out of control game. Not great but then not (yet) disastrous either.
UTV!
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We do miss Diaby, he was far from perfect but he did deliver output and gave us pace. We need to replace and haven’t.
The big miss is the combination of Doug and Kamara, they balanced the midfield perfect allowing the defence protection and linking up the attack. Somehow we need to replicate that.
That midfield was as good as any in the Pl. the platform of Kamara Luis then the combination’s of SjM , Tielemens, Bailey, Rogers, Diaby.
Now it looks like a bunch of good players thrown together unable to assert influence defensively or offensively.
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We miss Diaby, pure and simple. He had more quality than a lot on here gave credit for.
We replaced him with an ex-youth team player in Jaden who had one good year in the championship, he is nowhere near Diabys level.
The backup to Ollie is an untried and often erratic young player, so no real alternative in Duran than last season, yes he has the odd glimpse of greatness but then equally does nothing for several games.
Luiz is also a big miss in the middle, Tielemans has a couple of good games and then disappears for the next.
We are worse off than last season squad wise IMO and it is showing
spot on
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
Agreed
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Rogers is miles better. We miss all our players who are injured. Especially JJ running down the flank as we had at Anfield. And absolutely a fit Kamara to plug the yawning chasm that exists in the space from where our midfield should be and where the wheatabix defence is.
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Missing the penalty was a defining moment with Palace scoring straight after it. Surely Rogers should have taken it as he does for the U21's. As till thought at 2-2 we would go on and win. The last two subs of Buendia and Bidace killed us with Rogers and Bailey going off.
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To conjure a penalty to us into a goal for the opposition in about 45 seconds is prime Villa!
Didn’t think either side were particularly good and a draw was fair enough in the end. We haven’t been anything like our best for last 4/5 games but as a balance it is only the second half vs Spuds that was really poor.
Being broken on at will when you have a set piece is pretty much negligent to be fair, we had 10 players within 25 yards of their goal all facing their goal was asking for trouble if they have any runners. Can’t go gung ho when we have an attacking sat piece, need to have 1 or 2 players positioned to defend at all times.
Think a lot of the issue is the centre of midfield, for me Teilemans and Barkley were dreadfully weak out of possession and neither were particularly tidy with the ball either. Last time Teilemans was above 5/10 was Bologna for me.
Thought Bailey was improved, after the early chance when he ran through and the full back robbed him he didn’t let his head drop and was probably our biggest threat.
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It’s quite incredible how players that were so inconsistent last year are the ones we miss so much this year.
Diaby was shit for a lot of last season. I don’t miss him at all.
Maybe Dougie is the one we really miss ?
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
i think he would have scored more goals than rogers will this season.
He is also faster and far better at getting the ball forward quicker. Rogers is veey good dont get me wrong. But its not in rogers spot its baileys. Rogers and diaby in same team on form is a dangerous team.
Baileys been generally rubbish this year diaby would be well ahead of him this season.
We are missing him and pretty badly. Him and luiz in my opinion
You just need to look at how many goals our midfielders have scored this season comapred to last
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
For me it’s not so much Diaby or Rogers, I’d have Rogers every day of the week. It’s more an alternative to Bailey, or a sub to add dynamism and directness. Philogene and Buendia sadly are bringing absolutely nothing.
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
This is my take, too.
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Forget Diaby, the one we *really* miss is Zaniolo!!! All those glorious last-minute goals are sorely missed! And him and Duran together were sublime. Poetry in motion.
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Can't agree on Torres , he's a poor and weak defender , yes he can pass (sometimes) today he was an absolute liability .
Yeah he was absolute garbage in our brilliant run in the first half of last season….
i said "today" and actually this season generally he looks a liability and weak , our defence is a mess and he's at the heart of it
And it was brilliant when he was at the heart of it last year. Suggests to me it’s not actually the defence that’s the cause - it is completely exposed because the midfield does nothing to screen it. The midfield is the main problem.
The defence wasn't "brilliant" last year either , it was bang average but we were outscoring opponents , it's got worse now Torres is a liability in the middle , he cannot defend .
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The rebuild has to start with defence . Keep clean sheets and you win games , conceding 2 like today as we have been doing for 18 months now and it's a struggle . I can't believe it but this seems to be Emerys blind spot
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Forget Diaby, the one we *really* miss is Zaniolo!!! All those glorious last-minute goals are sorely missed! And him and Duran together were sublime. Poetry in motion.
How can we forget him!
Miss the amount of yellows he would pick up too!
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Not great today, particularly defending. The Sarr goal I’m blaming on the coaches. We’re getting hit like that too regularly.
Bailey needs a hug.
There’s some signs of life, so am hopeful for a happy Christmas.
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On the Diaby debate. Is he better than Philogene? Undoubtedly. Therefore the squad is weaker in that area without him and with Philogene. We shouldn’t have taken Philogene back and I don’t really know why Diaby left. I assume he wanted to go for the cash.
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I think we wanted/needed the cash too
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I just don't look at a team that can't stop conceding, especially after losing the ball too easily and not pressing enough on the transition, and think 'man, this team needs Moussa Diaby'.
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
i think he would have scored more goals than rogers will this season.
He is also faster and far better at getting the ball forward quicker. Rogers is veey good dont get me wrong. But its not in rogers spot its baileys. Rogers and diaby in same team on form is a dangerous team.
Baileys been generally rubbish this year diaby would be well ahead of him this season.
We are missing him and pretty badly. Him and luiz in my opinion
You just need to look at how many goals our midfielders have scored this season comapred to last
I'm guessing that the thinking was thar Rogers would be the 'number 10' this season with Buendia and others able to provide cover. On the right we had Bailey and Philogene, so they might have concluded that Diaby was expendable. Who knows, Diaby might have pushed for the move.
On paper that would have probably looked fine at the start of the season, problem is that most of the current options are either out of form or look like they don't really belong at the level sadly.
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I just don't look at a team that can't stop conceding, especially after losing the ball too easily and not pressing enough on the transition, and think 'man, this team needs Moussa Diaby'.
It’s not binary though - the main problem is our midfield is not doing its job, it’s as simple as that. But we lack options to change games as well, Diaby would bring that. He’s gone though, the problem is we haven’t adequately replaced him.
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Unpopular but i think id rather have cashed in on either youri JJ (that would have been massive profit) or duran. (But not for the 40m that was quoted in summer)
Durans not been great since he signed his new contract. The contract curse!
I was gutted when diabs left. Ii really rated him
This summer if JJs injury problems dont go away id consider selling for a massive profit this will keep us sweet for years. Also allow us to get better players than philiogene in
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So...you'd rather have sold three better players?
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I just don't look at a team that can't stop conceding, especially after losing the ball too easily and not pressing enough on the transition, and think 'man, this team needs Moussa Diaby'.
It’s not binary though - the main problem is our midfield is not doing its job, it’s as simple as that. But we lack options to change games as well, Diaby would bring that. He’s gone though, the problem is we haven’t adequately replaced him.
We'd have less need of changing games if we actually had a middle of the pitch!
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So...you'd rather have sold three better players?
No one of the three
Id have also been ok if we cashed in on cash
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So...you'd rather have sold three better players?
No one of the three
So you agree that they're all better than Diaby?
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So...you'd rather have sold three better players?
No one of the three
So you agree that they're all better than Diaby?
Nope
Im saying id rather have kept diaby and sold one of those three instead.
I loved diaby. Watching his run and scaring the shit out of defenders was a real joy to watch.
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They were usually a lot less scared when they saw what he did with it!
Sorry Dem, sure he was a better option than Philogene but he definitely underdelivered in my view. I really don't think his absence is much to be looked at here.
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I just don't look at a team that can't stop conceding, especially after losing the ball too easily and not pressing enough on the transition, and think 'man, this team needs Moussa Diaby'.
Looking at it today, the set up off attacking corners is just asking for trouble really. Our last defenders were almost on the edge of the opposition box, meaning the likes of McGinn who occupy those positions have a 70 yard foot race with players much quicker than them (I thought we looked slow all over the pitch today) if the opposition break.
It's cost us again today and I can't believe it hadn't been rectified after happening a few times at Liverpool.
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Diaby is the last player we miss. Seriously, put him immediately in this team, tell me what changes?
Rogers is better.
i think he would have scored more goals than rogers will this season.
He is also faster and far better at getting the ball forward quicker. Rogers is veey good dont get me wrong. But its not in rogers spot its baileys. Rogers and diaby in same team on form is a dangerous team.
Baileys been generally rubbish this year diaby would be well ahead of him this season.
We are missing him and pretty badly. Him and luiz in my opinion
You just need to look at how many goals our midfielders have scored this season comapred to last
I'm guessing that the thinking was thar Rogers would be the 'number 10' this season with Buendia and others able to provide cover. On the right we had Bailey and Philogene, so they might have concluded that Diaby was expendable. Who knows, Diaby might have pushed for the move.
On paper that would have probably looked fine at the start of the season, problem is that most of the current options are either out of form or look like they don't really belong at the level sadly.
Yeah i agree with that To. Buendia is literally offering nothing. I think he will be moved on in the summer as clearly we have moved on from him.now
Yeah we dont know what happened behind scenes with diaby but me speculating it was the club as the whole wages issue we had with CL. We had to get rid of a high earner. Im sure diabs wouldnt have minded anyway earning more in a shitter league though.
Just a shame he hasnt been replaced. I said this earlier but sarr cost 12m and man he would really add something to our team. Looks far better than bailey is at the moment . What a bargain for palace
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They were usually a lot less scared when they saw what he did with it!
Sorry Dem, sure he was a better option than Philogene but he definitely underdelivered in my view. I really don't think his absence is much to be looked at here.
I'd agree with this. He started brightly last season, but had a dip in form and wasn't really a regular starter in the 2nd half of the season. After that experience, he probably thought he wouldn't turn the Saudi money down again.
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I think its both the midfield and defence.
No protection from the midfield to help , and some pretty woeful defending as a whole. Oue best defender was cash who came on at half time
Giving the ball away so cheaply and so often is killing us as well. Pretty much all our attacking players have been guilty of it over the last number of games.
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just watchingMOTD .. love that Cunha
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Missing the penalty was a defining moment with Palace scoring straight after it. Surely Rogers should have taken it as he does for the U21's. As till thought at 2-2 we would go on and win. The last two subs of Buendia and Bidace killed us with Rogers and Bailey going off.
The last subs puzzled me as well. The team on field had pulled it back to 2-2 why not let them finish the job? The subs just interrupted any pressure we were building and gave Palace the break they needed.
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Sort the shambles of a defence out and build from there.
Seriously, this isn't difficult to see the priority areas to be addressed.
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Just watching the highlights on MOTD, there were so many poor bits of defending in Palace's goals and chances. In some cases, it looked like the effort to get back and defend properly just wasn't there.
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This slow walking the ball out of defence does my head in. From the keeper standing with the ball under his studs to defenders who pass between themselves with half a dozen back to you's. Need to get our mojo back.
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A decent team with too many players woefully out of form.
It is compounded by some structural issues though - I think that’s two clean sheets in something like 21 PL games - and until we sort that out, our fortunes will remain mixed. We do not defend well as a unit - there’s plenty of individual mistakes too of course - but we’re constantly and very easily exposed as a collective.
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As West Ham proved it is difficult manage all the extra games when you play in Europe. Some of the players look very flat.
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“Double pivot”. Vomit.
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Before we take a corner, the back 4 should be lined up on the half way line, as a back 4. I don't care if we score or not, directly from the corner, but we absolutely should not be conceding from it. (Especially when it is nil nil away at liverpool)
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Missing the penalty was a defining moment with Palace scoring straight after it. Surely Rogers should have taken it as he does for the U21's. As till thought at 2-2 we would go on and win. The last two subs of Buendia and Bidace killed us with Rogers and Bailey going off.
The last subs puzzled me as well. The team on field had pulled it back to 2-2 why not let them finish the job? The subs just interrupted any pressure we were building and gave Palace the break they needed.
It almost seemed to be settling for a draw.
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I thought we finally gained some momentum after the second goal, but bringing Rogers and Bailey off for Beundia and in particular Bidace killed it. I guess Emery had one eye on Juventus on Wednesday and thats one of the differences this season, champions league.
Banging on constantly (Villa Tim) about the defence being shit, is really missing the point. The centre of midfield is all wrong at the moment and its far to easy to just drive through us. As others have said and Ive said previously, I think Onana and Kamara may be an answer to this.
Some positives in a bleak wet horrible day with a massively flat holte end. I thought as shit as Bailey was in the first 15 mins, after he hit the bar with that thunderfuck, he was much better and there were green shoots snd signs last years Bailey is in there somewhere.
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This slow walking the ball out of defence does my head in. From the keeper standing with the ball under his studs to defenders who pass between themselves with half a dozen back to you's. Need to get our mojo back.
Yeah, totally agree. This is clearly part of the coaching strategy though and I don’t understand it. Yes, keeping possession is a good thing but this possession is inert and passive and achieves very little. It was noticeable yesterday how little movement there was when our defenders had the ball.
It doesn’t scare the opposition that’s for sure. They’ll take that all day.
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We're lacking real leaders on the pitch - might be worth bringing Mings in.
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This slow walking the ball out of defence does my head in. From the keeper standing with the ball under his studs to defenders who pass between themselves with half a dozen back to you's. Need to get our mojo back.
Yeah, totally agree. This is clearly part of the coaching strategy though and I don’t understand it. Yes, keeping possession is a good thing but this possession is inert and passive and achieves very little. It was noticeable yesterday how little movement there was when our defenders had the ball.
It doesn’t scare the opposition that’s for sure. They’ll take that
Its how we’ve played since Emery arrived. Playing it iut like this from defence and drawing teams onto us isn't really the problem of late, its how the ball then gets transitioned out of midfield.
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I thought we finally gained some momentum after the second goal, but bringing Rogers and Bailey off for Beundia and in particular Bidace killed it. I guess Emery had one eye on Juventus on Wednesday and thats one of the differences this season, champions league.
Banging on constantly (Villa Tim) about the defence being shit, is really missing the point. The centre of midfield is all wrong at the moment and its far to easy to just drive through us. As others have said and Ive said previously, I think Onana and Kamara may be an answer to this.
Some positives in a bleak wet horrible day with a massively flat holte end. I thought as shit as Bailey was in the first 15 mins, after he hit the bar with that thunderfuck, he was much better and there were green shoots snd signs last years Bailey is in there somewhere.
How I saw it as well. Until we sort out central midfield we will keep dropping points.
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Watched from the lower north today which gave me a different perspective and watching us be so sloooooooooow from the back did my head in. Why does Carlos amble forward a few yards, stop, have think, then pass it to cash. Why can’t we move the ball quicker 😤
When we did move it quicker through the lines, we scored the equaliser.
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Buendia immediately nibbled and harried and dug out a throughball that nearly led to something. It was something we'd been lacking, some bite and urgency of our own on transitions.
Philogene, I remain half-convinced he'll end up at rightback if he's going to have a top-flight career.
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We are not harrying the opposition midfield enough, we may not always win the ball back, but at least it stops them having the time to choose a killer pass.
This is where we miss Kamara and Onana.
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We are not harrying the opposition midfield enough, we may not always win the ball back, but at least it stops them having the time to choose a killer pass.
This is where we miss Kamara and Onana.
Yeah, that's what was missing yesterday. I know Barkley (who was decent by the way) played that role for Luton but we really could do with Kamara or Onana back in there.
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Buendia immediately nibbled and harried and dug out a throughball that nearly led to something. It was something we'd been lacking, some bite and urgency of our own on transitions.
Philogene, I remain half-convinced he'll end up at rightback if he's going to have a top-flight career.
Maybe I am clutching at straws, but I was encouraged by Philogene on one occasion taking on his man and getting a ball into the box, quite cleverly, I felt. Not too shabby for 10 minutes on the pitch.
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Onana and Kamara played at Anfield and the defence was still poor .
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Onana and Kamara played at Anfield
Not together.
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Buendia immediately nibbled and harried and dug out a throughball that nearly led to something. It was something we'd been lacking, some bite and urgency of our own on transitions.
Philogene, I remain half-convinced he'll end up at rightback if he's going to have a top-flight career.
Maybe I am clutching at straws, but I was encouraged by Philogene on one occasion taking on his man and getting a ball into the box, quite cleverly, I felt. Not too shabby for 10 minutes on the pitch.
He could still do that as a fullback though, indeed would be expected to. He does have excellent positioning and tenacity as well.
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Kamara came on for Onana and the defence was fine in open play. Typical error from Carlos that we've come to expect for the second and a ridiculously naive set up for the corner leading the first.
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Onana and Kamara played at Anfield and the defence was still poor .
But not quite in the same way, I don’t think. I can’t recall Liverpool’s midfielders marauding onto our centre backs. I do recall two very fast breakaway goals where we were chasing rather than defending. Yesterday the issue seemed to be with Mateta coming slightly deeper into the midfield area and being able to turn and face the defenders, or midfielders being played into the pocket in front of them.
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onana and Kamara both seem injury prone so however highly people may rate them if they are often unavailable through injury then they aren't much use.
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onana and Kamara both seem injury prone so however highly people may rate them if they are often unavailable through injury then they aren't much use.
Onana's missed about two months in five years?
But hey, whatever makes you miserable.
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Thought we looked better going forward with Bailey showing a few flashes of getting back to the form we need him to be in, Watkins held the ball up well and generally looked threatening apart from that inexplicable instance when he was through and just seemed to slow down and have the ball taken off him. Intro of Cash was a positive reaction to the first half issues.
Thought Palace were very well set up to nullify us, men behind the ball quickly and deeply when we have the ball, allowed us to get plenty of players forward, then put on an aggressive press and broke with pace and numbers.
We look pretty chaotic at the back and that needs serious and immediate attention, we give up far too many chances. I get that we share missing players but Palace played through our midfield like a knife through butter.
Also I thought the final subs were ill judged, Bailey and Rogers, albeit the latter looking well off it up until then, were in a spell where they looked threatening and had a head of steam up. Philogene was abject, he looks physically weak, nowhere near good enough with the ball and a waste of a sub. Thought it telling Cash seemed reluctant to give him the ball, or run past him.
Overall, decent with the ball. Poor without it.
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I thought we finally gained some momentum after the second goal, but bringing Rogers and Bailey off for Beundia and in particular Bidace killed it. I guess Emery had one eye on Juventus on Wednesday and thats one of the differences this season, champions league.
Banging on constantly (Villa Tim) about the defence being shit, is really missing the point. The centre of midfield is all wrong at the moment and its far to easy to just drive through us. As others have said and Ive said previously, I think Onana and Kamara may be an answer to this.
Some positives in a bleak wet horrible day with a massively flat holte end. I thought as shit as Bailey was in the first 15 mins, after he hit the bar with that thunderfuck, he was much better and there were green shoots snd signs last years Bailey is in there somewhere.
Rogers come off after being hacked down by (what looked from the Trinity like) a pretty horrendous tackle which only earned a yellow. He was down for a time afterwards and limping.
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The no 27 who made that tackle, also made 4 fouls on McGinn before that, thought the ref was very lenient, then went mad once he’d showed his first yellow.
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Perhaps I imagined it, but have not seen any comment about the ball ricocheting towards Duran apparently unmarked in the middle of their box in injury time and he completely missed it. Was it as clearcut as it appeared from the side?
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I’d be interested to see our average positions - Risso posts them occasionally. I think Torres drifts far too wide, which sometimes works when Konsa and Carlos can shuffle across, but when a traditional RB is playing leaves us with one centre-half defending too much space.
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Perhaps I imagined it, but have not seen any comment about the ball ricocheting towards Duran apparently unmarked in the middle of their box in injury time and he completely missed it. Was it as clearcut as it appeared from the side?
I remember that, was waiting for him to lash it in first time but he couldn't control it
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That's 19 goals conceded now, the 5th worst in the league
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We are not harrying the opposition midfield enough, we may not always win the ball back, but at least it stops them having the time to choose a killer pass.
This is where we miss Kamara and Onana.
Yeah, that's what was missing yesterday. I know Barkley (who was decent by the way) played that role for Luton but we really could do with Kamara or Onana back in there.
I am hoping to see Kamara and Onana partnered together in midfield at some point, as I think that is potentially our best pairing. Just think Barkley and Tielemans, although probably better on the ball, isn't quite athletic enough as a partnership in there.
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That's 19 goals conceded now, the 5th worst in the league
Wow, that is bad. 11 games in so would have thought Emery to have already addressed this as a matter of urgency. If we are down on personnel then adapt the system.
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I don’t think the bad run is a problem with tactics there’s just too many players not playing at their normal levels
I mean there’s the obvious ones Bailey McGinn Rogers, then add to that Torres Tielemans, Cash all underperforming
Then you got the likes of Carlos, Philogene, Buendia, Bogarde who aren’t making a showing and it’s just too many at the same time
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We’ve conceded as many as we’ve scored. That screams mid table. I don’t think that’s where we’ll end up but we need a massive improvement defensively.
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Rogers come off after being hacked down by (what looked from the Trinity like) a pretty horrendous tackle which only earned a yellow. He was down for a time afterwards and limping.
Also, other than a beautiful round the corner pass, he'd been anonymous in the second half, until he won the corner prior to being subbed.
Maybe he'd seen the board...
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The quality of our first goal has been lost in the negativity of the result. Pau’s pass, McGinn’s ball around the corner and Watkins’ touch and finish was a really good bit of football.
A similar thing happened second half but Ollie took too much time.
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Palace had scored 8 in 11 before yesterday. They looked really dangerous going forward yesterday which says more about the issues we have.
Tielemans and Barkley seemed to be playing square to each other, so Emery played without either of them sitting a little deeper, which made the gap to the defence bigger.
Is Sarr the one Gerrard wanted to sign? He is exactly the wide striking option we are missing. He’s quick, direct - very good player.
And once again, a physical centre forward bullies our central defence. We didn’t cope with Mateta all afternoon.
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We look really vulnerable at corners.
Particularly, our own.
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I don’t think the bad run is a problem with tactics there’s just too many players not playing at their normal levels
I mean there’s the obvious ones Bailey McGinn Rogers, then add to that Torres Tielemans, Cash all underperforming
Then you got the likes of Carlos, Philogene, Buendia, Bogarde who aren’t making a showing and it’s just too many at the same time
Yep, agree John. Add in a few injuries and it's just hit a bit of a wall at the moment.
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More reflections from yesterday and the recent poor form. We’ve stopped being aggressive without the ball. Last season in particular we were always up for a scrap when that was required. That seems to have stopped recently. Teams are bullying is a bit. I’m convinced the missing link defensively is Kamara - need him back asap.
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Rogers come off after being hacked down by (what looked from the Trinity like) a pretty horrendous tackle which only earned a yellow. He was down for a time afterwards and limping.
Also, other than a beautiful round the corner pass, he'd been anonymous in the second half, until he won the corner prior to being subbed.
Maybe he'd seen the board...
Wouldn't have taken him off nor Bailey at the time. Bringing on Duran completely negated Watkins influence again too. Thought it was the best Watkins played in weeks up to then. The subs are coming across a bit scripted in recent weeks.
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We're lacking real leaders on the pitch - might be worth bringing Mings in.
He organises the defence and is very quick too. I can't stand Carlos and Torres as a pair, milk turns faster. Zero communication between them and with their full backs. Yes our midfield was non existent, simply can't play Tielemans/Barkley in PL, but our defence was an absolute shambles again yesterday.
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https://www.astonvilla.news/match-coverage/what-oliver-glasner-told-his-crystal-palace-players-should-be-concerning-for-aston-villa-and-unai-emery/
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https://www.astonvilla.news/match-coverage/what-oliver-glasner-told-his-crystal-palace-players-should-be-concerning-for-aston-villa-and-unai-emery/
That's quite concerning, to be honest. There's no surprise factor to us any more, and the signs are very much that we've been sussed out. That's two managers in recent weeks who have basically said we're very predictable.
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https://www.astonvilla.news/match-coverage/what-oliver-glasner-told-his-crystal-palace-players-should-be-concerning-for-aston-villa-and-unai-emery/
So Glasner spotted it as well
“I’d be interested to see our average positions - Risso posts them occasionally. I think Torres drifts far too wide, which sometimes works when Konsa and Carlos can shuffle across, but when a traditional RB is playing leaves us with one centre-half defending too much space.”
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
Teams aren't struggling to stop it though, that's the point. And we've been crap defensively for most of 2024. It's structural. Our main defender in Torres is great on the ball, but is a fairly mediocre defender. That's a big problem.
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Mings alongside Torres and Konsa seems like an obvious defensive set-up to me, with Onana and Kamara ahead of them. With those 5 forming a solid core, we have more licence to exploit the wide areas as well as covering the current gaps.
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
Teams aren't struggling to stop it though, that's the point. And we've been crap defensively for most of 2024. It's structural. Our main defender in Torres is great on the ball, but is a fairly mediocre defender. That's a big problem.
We are creating loads of chances though - that is not an issue I don't think. We have a few problems out of possession for sure though. Bite and aggression in midfield (i.e. missing Kamara and now Onana) and having to play Carlos too much - ideally we would've signed a right sided centre half last summer, one who is aggressive, quick and doesn't constantly keep giving the ball away in dodgy situations. One pass he played yesterday into, well, nowhere... I was actually struggling to see what he was trying to do. Not good enough way too often.
I think every player, bar Diaby, was playing right at the top of their game for a lot last season. This season a good few aren't and that is the difference between 7th and 4th. When Kamara is back, and Ramsey and Onana are available again we will see results improving. And we really must try and upgrade Carlos this January.
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We have conceded 53 Premier League goals in 2024, five more than in the entirety of 2023, in 12 less games
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
Teams aren't struggling to stop it though, that's the point. And we've been crap defensively for most of 2024. It's structural. Our main defender in Torres is great on the ball, but is a fairly mediocre defender. That's a big problem.
Torres is the elephant in the room. The sooner we have Konsa/Mings back in the middle the better .
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
Teams aren't struggling to stop it though, that's the point. And we've been crap defensively for most of 2024. It's structural. Our main defender in Torres is great on the ball, but is a fairly mediocre defender. That's a big problem.
Torres is the elephant in the room. The sooner we have Konsa/Mings back in the middle the better .
The Torres pass for our first goal was probably the best of the game, maybe bar Bailey's through ball to Watkins. He isn't an Elephant in any room. He's a quality playmaking centre half who needs an aggressive quick partner (who he hasn't got). Elephants have a better passing range than his partner yesterday.
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The quality of our first goal has been lost in the negativity of the result. Pau’s pass, McGinn’s ball around the corner and Watkins’ touch and finish was a really good bit of football.
A similar thing happened second half but Ollie took too much time.
Yeah the pass from Torres took out their press and midfield. McGinn had the space as a result and bang, goal. Agree Ollie should have scored in the second half too with it.
That's the benefit of increasing the pass of our transition through the lines. The issue is, when we give it away, the gap between midfield and defence is too great or too easy to play through. We need Boobie back to be that auxiliary centre half, neat recovery/re-set merchant. He's absolutely class. Put him next to Onana, as I'm sure is the intention and we'll just have a much more solid structure.
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We have conceded 53 Premier League goals in 2024, five more than in the entirety of 2023, in 12 less games
Hence why i said 2023 was better than 2024 has been.
Can 2024 just end and can 2025 be like 2023 please !
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Torres is a class act not playing to his normal levels but still effective as seen by the goals he creates (R Madrid) and playing out from the back although he has been sloppy of late
We have no other centre back that can do it, none
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Would also add that the 1st goal has Maatsen on the same line as Ollie. I don't feel like we've been able to do that as much of late, as we lose possession a bit too readily.
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Torres is a class act not playing to his normal levels but still effective as seen by the goals he creates (R Madrid) and playing out from the back although he has been sloppy of late
We have no other centre back that can do it, none
He’s a great footballing centre-half but a few goals created doesn’t get anywhere near compensating for how much better the Konsa/Mings partnership is at preventing goals against. He’d have to be on about 25 assists a season to make up for that.
8 goals conceded in their last 15 games together, 7 clean sheets.
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Torres is a class act not playing to his normal levels but still effective as seen by the goals he creates (R Madrid) and playing out from the back although he has been sloppy of late
We have no other centre back that can do it, none
He’s a great footballing centre-half but a few goals created doesn’t get anywhere near compensating for how much better the Konsa/Mings partnership is at preventing goals against. He’d have to be on about 25 assists a season to make up for that.
8 goals conceded in their last 15 games together, 7 clean sheets.
I agree, the occasional incisive pass does not cover the defensive frailty.
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I’m not at all convinced that had the CB partnership yesterday have been Konsa & Mings, rather than Carlos and Torres, that either of their two goals would have been prevented.
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Mings and Konsa or McGrath and Beckenbaur would still have left without a midfield screen on almost every Palace attack.
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I'm still bloody annoyed with Tielemans over his penalty. It was piss poor. Not enough paceon it and at the perfect height further keeper to save it. Smash that in and keep it tight at the back and we go into the break 2-1 up. Instead we went in 2-1 down and struggled our way to a draw at home against a really poor Palace team. Very annoying to say the least.
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Mings and Konsa or McGrath and Beckenbaur would still have left without a midfield screen on almost every Palace attack.
Exactly.
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I'm still bloody annoyed with Tielemans over his penalty. It was piss poor. Not enough paceon it and at the perfect height further keeper to save it. Smash that in and keep it tight at the back and we go into the break 2-1 up. Instead we went in 2-1 down and struggled our way to a draw at home against a really poor Palace team. Very annoying to say the least.
I’m still annoyed the chap next to me exclaimed “Oh God!” Before he hit it. As soon as he said it I thought that’s jinxed it!
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Mings and Konsa or McGrath and Beckenbaur would still have left without a midfield screen on almost every Palace attack.
This is indeed It.
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Mings and Konsa or McGrath and Beckenbaur would still have left without a midfield screen on almost every Palace attack.
Great point that i agree with. Enzo would have been handy about now
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As an aside, did you see all the empty seats yesterday? This is what’s going to happen when CL prices are so ridiculous. A lot of people can’t afford those matches and league games as well. If Heck had just been sensible regarding the CL prices, I think we would have had very few, if any, empty seats for the league matches. Put the 2 together and the club, overall, are not making any extra money plus, not a good look for our PL games with so many gaps.
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There was poor turnout from Palace but I reckon there were at least 500 empty seats in upper Trinity alone. Probably GA+ seats.
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Who won on xG?
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Torres is a class act not playing to his normal levels but still effective as seen by the goals he creates (R Madrid) and playing out from the back although he has been sloppy of late
We have no other centre back that can do it, none
He’s a great footballing centre-half but a few goals created doesn’t get anywhere near compensating for how much better the Konsa/Mings partnership is at preventing goals against. He’d have to be on about 25 assists a season to make up for that.
8 goals conceded in their last 15 games together, 7 clean sheets.
I agree to an extent but the best centre backs in the world would struggle with the ease with which teams run through us on the counter attack. To me, that’s where the issues are and until we fix that then it’s difficult to judge.
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
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As an aside, did you see all the empty seats yesterday? This is what’s going to happen when CL prices are so ridiculous. A lot of people can’t afford those matches and league games as well. If Heck had just been sensible regarding the CL prices, I think we would have had very few, if any, empty seats for the league matches. Put the 2 together and the club, overall, are not making any extra money plus, not a good look for our PL games with so many gaps.
Loads of empties Witton lower
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Mings is better on the ball (though admittedly not Torres levels) than many give him credit for as well.
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Mings is better on the ball (though admittedly not Torres levels) than many give him credit for as well.
Yeah, Tyrone's long passing is usually OK. We're losing more from the fact that Torres is slow and not very strong, and is positionally suspect, than we are from his ability on the ball at the moment. Maybe when Kamara is fully fit he'll come into his own again, but at the moment he's a liability.
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
Its a conundrum though, as Torres is also integral to how Emery wants to play and also integral to our best league finish in nearly 39 years. As much as I love Mings and he is better at the basics if defending, he doesn’t possess the ability to beat the press that Torres gives us. We don’t score our first goal yesterday without Torres, we don’t score the goal against Bayern, there are loads of examples.
Could he try Mings and Torres together perhaps?
You can’t drop Torres for me and we have to instead be harder to break through in midfield. Lets see where we are once Kamara and Onana are back up and running.
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
Its a conundrum though, as Torres is also integral to how Emery wants to play and also integral to our best league finish in nearly 39 years. As much as I love Mings and he is better at the basics of defending, he doesn’t possess the ability to beat the press that Torres gives us. We don’t score our first goal yesterday without Torres, we don’t score the goal against Bayern, there are loads of examples.
Could he try Mings and Torres together perhaps?
You can’t drop Torres for me and we have to instead be harder to break through in midfield. Lets see where we are once Kamara and Onana are back up and running.
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If you want big beefy centre half’s who can handle themselves Physically but have no real ball skills and certainly can’t play out from the back with any confidence then I’m afraid you’ve got the wrong manager Sean Dyche is your man
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It does suprise me that mings has got so very little game time in the league
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
The real basics is getting a midfield that does anything. The issue you highlight a lot of the time is players running at pace through the midfield straight at our defence. Any centre half will struggle with that.
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Mings is better on the ball (though admittedly not Torres levels) than many give him credit for as well.
He broadly hits the passes he attempts.
But doesn't see half the passes Torres does.
Carlos is also a better passer than he is given credit for.
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It does suprise me that mings has got so very little game time in the league
Imagine he's still not fully match fit . I suspect he may play Chelsea or maybe v Juve
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If you want big beefy centre half’s who can handle themselves Physically but have no real ball skills and certainly can’t play out from the back with any confidence then I’m afraid you’ve got the wrong manager Sean Dyche is your man
Mings played brilliantly under Emery before. Sweeping behind Moreno, minding Konsa, holding a very high offside line. One on one defending he loved. Torres is a brilliant ball player but he's an average at best defender.
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We can whinge about the centre halves all we like but if we have every single team outfield player within 22 yards of the opposition goal facing the opposition goal when we take a corner & not one player had any focus on defending what happened has a fair chance of happening….that approach has to be more pragmatic
For me the reason is as much about the centre midfield not doing its defensive work properly and the amount of defensive changes we make game in game out…to play that line consistently you need the same personnel consistently.
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We used to leave Diaby back on corners and he was so quick he could mop up any loose balls. Who is doing that role now? I haven’t seen the goal.
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I think we should try:
konsa, mings, torres, digne.
I know that 2 left footed CBs isnt ideal - but Mings pace, organisation and strength is really missed - I think its worth a try.
I also wonder, would torres be able to play as a sweeper or defensive midfiedler
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I also wonder, would torres be able to play as a sweeper or defensive midfiedler
Torres is the footballing equivalent of a quarterback - you wouldn’t want him being tackled too often.
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Urgent hunt underway for hit-and-run driver 'who ploughed into fans'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14120745/Urgent-hunt-underway-hit-run-driver-deliberately-ploughed-fans-outside-Villa-Park-fled.html
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Urgent hunt underway for hit-and-run driver 'who ploughed into fans'
Was he reversing?
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Me and my kids got a glimpse of this from afar, although didn't realise people were actually hit. The car was trying to get out of the side road that faces the Wittin Arms, but the road was obviously mobbed with supporters. He pushed forwards over aggressively and loads of supporters started shouting at him, he then put his foot on the gas and bombed forwards onto the main road turning left and loads of people started chasing after him. He absolutely could of killed people.
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Who won on xG?
Aston glorius Villa 3. 18 palace 1.27
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Urgent hunt underway for hit-and-run driver 'who ploughed into fans'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14120745/Urgent-hunt-underway-hit-run-driver-deliberately-ploughed-fans-outside-Villa-Park-fled.html
Surely that will be captured on CCTV
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Who won on xG?
Aston glorius Villa 3. 18 palace 1.27
Really? Get in!
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
Its a conundrum though, as Torres is also integral to how Emery wants to play and also integral to our best league finish in nearly 39 years. As much as I love Mings and he is better at the basics if defending, he doesn’t possess the ability to beat the press that Torres gives us. We don’t score our first goal yesterday without Torres, we don’t score the goal against Bayern, there are loads of examples.
Could he try Mings and Torres together perhaps?
You can’t drop Torres for me and we have to instead be harder to break through in midfield. Lets see where we are once Kamara and Onana are back up and running.
39 years? We finished 2nd twice and 4th once in the last 34 years.
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Me and my kids got a glimpse of this from afar, although didn't realise people were actually hit. The car was trying to get out of the side road that faces the Wittin Arms, but the road was obviously mobbed with supporters. He pushed forwards over aggressively and loads of supporters started shouting at him, he then put his foot on the gas and bombed forwards onto the main road turning left and loads of people started chasing after him. He absolutely could of killed people.
I was going to ask about this, the fella, in a black Jag 4x4 continued to drive like a wanker as he overtook stationary cars on the wrong side of the road going up Witton Rd with loads of people chasing him as he tried to get away. Really could have been carnage.
As we always walk down that way, worth noting that there was an event on on the old tram station, guessing someone had been there, had a few and forgot there would be thousands outside at that time.
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At least Mings has got a bit of pace to get himself back in to position, unlike Torres. We need to go back to basics and stop conceding goals. Torres is absolutely dreadful at that part of the game.
Its a conundrum though, as Torres is also integral to how Emery wants to play and also integral to our best league finish in nearly 39 years. As much as I love Mings and he is better at the basics if defending, he doesn’t possess the ability to beat the press that Torres gives us. We don’t score our first goal yesterday without Torres, we don’t score the goal against Bayern, there are loads of examples.
Could he try Mings and Torres together perhaps?
You can’t drop Torres for me and we have to instead be harder to break through in midfield. Lets see where we are once Kamara and Onana are back up and running.
39 years? We finished 2nd twice and 4th once in the last 34 years.
Sorry tupo, was meant to say 29 years, 94-95 and all that
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Attendance not released again i see.
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Attendance not released again i see.
They haven't done it for a couple of years, so why would they suddenly make an exception for yesterday.
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attendances are there confirmed for the other recent home games
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We've been predictable for ages. Like Man City are predictable. It's one thing knowing what's coming and being able to stop it. I'm convinced the issue isn't structural, it's too many players being off form or injured at the same time. I'm backing us to beat Juventus and get a result v Chelsea.
Teams aren't struggling to stop it though, that's the point. And we've been crap defensively for most of 2024. It's structural. Our main defender in Torres is great on the ball, but is a fairly mediocre defender. That's a big problem.
Torres is the elephant in the room. The sooner we have Konsa/Mings back in the middle the better .
100% The love Torres gets from some baffles me. An average defender at best who sometimes - and I mean sometimes - makes the sublime pass. I guess I am old school, but I prefer my defenders defend first and foremost.
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attendances are there confirmed for the other recent home games
It seems we have to wait for the next home programme to find out what the attendance was for the previous game