Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2022, 10:00:04 PM
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Absolute waste of an opportunity to win. A magic 20 min and the rest I'd rather forget. Well done JJ and PC
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Stunning 15 minute spell surrounded by a steaming pile of shit
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Soooooo frustrating
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Two points dropped. We remain a frustrating work in progress.
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Losing the goal before half-time was the killer. The second half was awful. Some of the fist half attacking play was top drawer.
Watkins needs dropping.
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This season just doesn't want to get going. So frustrating.
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Watkins is the biggest let down. Promised so much last year, absolute gash this.
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Entertainment for the neutral.... I'm not a neutral, 20mins good, 78+ mins of gash.
Gerrard will learn a lot from this
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Bollocks Bollocks
Stevie, Mings, Konsa, McGinn and Duggie not good enough tonight. We got what we deserved.
We were full strength and Leeds weren't. Thankfully.
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Getting the right DM is more important than getting a DM in. Marv if healthy or Morgan Sanson needs to replace Luiz. Even SJM isn't safe.
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I watched all 98 minutes and couldn't tell whether Luiz, McGinn or Watkins were playing.
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Two points dropped. We remain a frustrating work in progress.
I really don't think we are the latter.
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The improvements needed there for all to see, centre half defensive midfielder and centre forward.
Some way to go still.
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75 minutes of utter garbage.
We really need improvements on Watkins and a shithouse CM if we’re going to push on
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Brilliant from JJ and Coutinho.
Utterly dreadful from Konsa and Mings - one of the worst defensive displays I’ve seen in a long time.
Emi, SJM, Doug, and Ollie were really poor.
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Another manager who makes detrimental and shit subs. Today was truly wank.
Ramsey and Phil and Buendia fab.
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Mad game of football. I said at half time brilliant and awful at times. Konsa and Mings had a shocker and we couldn’t contain them in midfield either.
Once Emi went off I thought we looked useless too. He’s such a busy and intelligent player.
Ramsey is fantastic.
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Mings has the physique, demeanour and attitude of a world class defender.
I’d cash in on that, because he’s not.
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TV keep saying how a game this was but Villa were... well... shite. We couldn't live with Leeds all game long. Defenders totally lost the plot. Midfield non-existent. Coutinho and Ramsey for ten minutes aside we were awful. Worrying.
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
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Tricky performance to weigh up.
Certainly at 3-1 we should have closed the half out, 2 goals up at HT would have been so much better.
Leeds weren't shy of a heavy tackle, but the ref let the game flow, so you have to adjust.
Watkins worked his arse off, but it just isn't happening for him. Great movement to open up the space for JJ's second.
Stupid second yellow for Konsa.
We need to be more cynical at times, game awareness and management must improve
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We really struggled to defend corners. Some heroic goal line clearances, but we lost the first header too many times. Can’t help thinking we could do with some taller players. I hope the DM that we ultimately get will help this.
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We all know McGinn is great - what has happened to him?
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Bollocks Bollocks
Steven, Mings, Konsa, McGinn and Duggie not good enough tonight. We got what we deserved.
We were full strength and Leeds weren't. Thankfully.
Steven?
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I feel like Mings' lapses of concentration are the norm now and he occasionally has lapses of competence.
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
Cleared one off the line just before Leeds' equaliser.
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
At a guess about 10 points a season.
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
Cleared one off the line just before Leeds' equaliser.
That’s his job.
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That second half performance was dire. Great 15 at the end of the first half though. Watkins offers nothing at present. Doug's been poor. Set pieces both attacking and defending were largely poor. McGinn invisible.
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
Cleared one off the line just before Leeds' equaliser.
If he made two more goal line clearances, he'd equal the remaining two he was at fault for then?
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I’m not really sure what McGinn’s role is now. He’s not good at defending and he’s not doing anything creative. He’s a complete passenger.
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We really struggled to defend corners. Some heroic goal line clearances, but we lost the first header too many times. Can’t help thinking we could do with some taller players. I hope the DM that we ultimately get will help this.
He looks good in training.
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Getting the right DM is more important than getting a DM in. Marv if healthy or Morgan Sanson needs to replace Luiz. Even SJM isn't safe.
Absolutely although and don't thinks Sanson is physical enough for that role.
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The following need replacing in the summer:
Mings
Watkins
McGinn
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We all know McGinn is great - what has happened to him?
agreed
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Strange game with the sublime and the ridiculous.
Watkins is the real worry for me. He is very willing but lacks quality in most things he does.
Brilliant cameo from PC & Ramsey gets better and better.
Mings is one of those players. He makes a mistake it results in a goal. Others get away with making errors, he doesn't. Tonight he was punished twice.
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Tricky performance to weigh up.
Certainly at 3-1 we should have closed the half out, 2 goals up at HT would have been so much better.
Leeds weren't shy of a heavy tackle, but the ref let the game flow, so you have to adjust.
Watkins worked his arse off, but it just isn't happening for him. Great movement to open up the space for JJ's second.
Stupid second yellow for Konsa.
We need to be more cynical at times, game awareness and management must improve
I thought we were really hard into the tackle much more so than Leeds. Not cynical but we nearly broke some Leeds players with tackles from Digne, Cash and Mings.
If anything we weren't quite there because we're not fully up to speed in players clicking into the system just yet.
But we played both sides of the game today and if anything our physicality and gamesmanship outstripped real quality as a team at the moment. They were giving it lots of welly just not quite enough craft particularly in defence.
Just need to smarten some of our play up more and game management in certain situations.
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Mings with one of the worst defensive performances in a long time
Luiz utterly anonymous
McGinn not much better
Konsa uncharacteristically poor
Watkins contributed absolutely nothing.
We were lucky to get a point from that.
Some scintillating attacking play puncturing great swathes of midfield and defensive ineptness.
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Three one up and we fucked it up, Luiz was almost invisible tonight Konsa and Mings were woeful but JJ and Coutinho were brilliant. A mixed performance but a fair result.
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Watkins was very poor tonight, think Ings will start on Saturday. Ming's was a mixture of the sublime to ridiculous all game, Konza piss poor, Luiz off it too but it's not his position. Maybe worth putting Chambers there as he can play DM?
When we're good we're amazing but put a little pressure on and we go to shit.
Think summer will see a lot of changes with the average Joe's moved on. Hate to say it but Grealish made Watkins look very good last year.
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The following need replacing in the summer:
Mings
Watkins
McGinn
Not McGinn - he needs to be used properly and rotated.
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We all know McGinn is great - what has happened to him?
I don’t think there is a lot wrong with SJM to be honest. He does a lot of good work, but gets overshadowed by Phil and Emi. Leeds are a horrible side to play, and we didn’t lose.
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There was a game management issue today on the pitch. At 3-1 approaching half-time we should have just killed it but we had a centre-half surging forward. We needed clearer heads - ultimately that’s what cost us the game.
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Pathetic display against a Leeds team missing their best players. Too many players being found out now and far too reliant on individual brilliance.
Dreading Sunday against a Newcastle team with their tails up.
I'll say it again. We are still nowhere near being safe
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
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15 minutes amazing - rest really poor.
Still feels like more questions than answers in this, as had been all season under both managers.
Think we need 3 wins from the next 4 otherwise this season will really peater out.
I know were always biased - but for my money our squad is better than 10th.
We just seem too soft, and god knows how we have managed to make two england international center forwards become shit.
Worried there is an element of emperiors new clothes about this all
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Mings with one of the worst defensive performances in a long time
Luiz utterly anonymous
McGinn not much better
Konsa uncharacteristically poor
Watkins contributed absolutely nothing.
We were lucky to get a point from that.
Some scintillating attacking play puncturing great swathes of midfield and defensive ineptness.
Summed up perfectly.
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Mings can be the hero last ditch defender, but he has so many clangers in him, how can that leeds player beat him at half time, because he didn't jump he just lent in, crap.
We lost our threat second half by trying to tighten up at the back. Should have been 3 points
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We all know McGinn is great - what has happened to him?
I think hes been restricted because Doug isint really a DM.
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Mings with one of the worst defensive performances in a long time
Luiz utterly anonymous
McGinn not much better
Konsa uncharacteristically poor
Watkins contributed absolutely nothing.
We were lucky to get a point from that.
Some scintillating attacking play puncturing great swathes of midfield and defensive ineptness.
Summed up perfectly.
I think Konsa and Mings were pretty much on a par - both were terrible tonight.
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There was a game management issue today on the pitch. At 3-1 approaching half-time we should have just killed it but we had a centre-half surging forward. We needed clearer heads - ultimately that’s what cost us the game.
But he had absolutely no options….he had to carry the ball on
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Farce really, from 3-1 up against that Leeds team to draw 3-3 and finish with 10. Really worried about our coach to be honest. Reminiscent of Deano. Timing of changes, selection of subs, no tactical changes. Our players got no help from the sideline at all for the second game in a row.
Magic moments from Coutinho and Ramsey. Buendia got us going early on when we were getting schooled. Those three aside performances verged from average to rotten. Mings with arguably his worst performance for the club though I recall Bamford embarrassing him in this fixture previously. Leeds fully deserved a point, missing their three best players.
Martinez 5 - looked shaky from set pieces, Mings bailed him out for one
Cash 5 - stop diving in please, fine assist for first but part of a hopeless defensive unit
Konsa 2 - didn't block shot for the first and got worse from there, ending in farce. Horror show
Mings 1 - at fault for three goals, saved one in fairness. Thinks he's Maldini with the ball. Drinky levels performance
Digne 5 - missed a sitter and average throughout really
Luiz 3 - horror first half, won tackle that set up third, half hearted at best
McGinn 4 - can't pass a ball to save himself. In team on reputation only and has been for weeks
Ramsey 8 - two brilliant finishes and driving runs. Couldn't get him involved in second half
Coutinho 8 - started poorly and then a magic spell. Fitness still a problem
Watkins 4 - see McGinn, rotten again.
Chucky 4 - nowhere near ready to be first sub in. Poor decision again from Gerrard
Young 3 - a walking red card, embarrassing cameo.
Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
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Mings with one of the worst defensive performances in a long time
Luiz utterly anonymous
McGinn not much better
Konsa uncharacteristically poor
Watkins contributed absolutely nothing.
We were lucky to get a point from that.
Some scintillating attacking play puncturing great swathes of midfield and defensive ineptness.
This.
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Disappointed! Expected the win and got a fortunate draw in the end. Excepting the 15 minute spell where Coutinho and Ramsey were on fire we were generally poor. That's 2 home games running where we've relied on two 15 minute spells for the sum total of 2 points. The system we're attempting to play won't work unless we've got a strong dcm and this wasn't addressed in the transfer window. We had approx 35% possession in the first half and this only improved by 2-3% after half time. 4 shots on target all game and 3 of those came in the 15 minutes before half time. 1 shot on target for the other 75 mins!. Playing like the away team at VP won't win games. All this against a lowly injury riddled Leeds doesn't make good reading.
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Farce really, from 3-1 up against that Leeds team to draw 3-3 and finish with 10. Really worried about our coach to be honest. Reminiscent of Deano. Timing of changes, selection of subs, no tactical changes. Our players got no help from the sideline at all for the second game in a row.
Magic moments from Coutinho and Ramsey. Buendia got us going early on when we were getting schooled. Those three aside performances verged from average to rotten. Mings with arguably his worst performance for the club though I recall Bamford embarrassing him in this fixture previously. Leeds fully deserved a point, missing their three best players.
Martinez 5 - looked shaky from set pieces, Mings bailed him out for one
Cash 5 - stop diving in please, fine assist for first but part of a hopeless defensive unit
Konsa 2 - didn't block shot for the first and got worse from there, ending in farce. Horror show
Mings 1 - at fault for three goals, saved one in fairness. Thinks he's Maldini with the ball. Drinky levels performance
Digne 5 - missed a sitter and average throughout really
Luiz 3 - horror first half, won tackle that set up third, half hearted at best
McGinn 4 - can't pass a ball to save himself. In team on reputation only and has been for weeks
Ramsey 8 - two brilliant finishes and driving runs. Couldn't get him involved in second half
Coutinho 8 - started poorly and then a magic spell. Fitness still a problem
Watkins 4 - see McGinn, rotten again.
Chucky 4 - nowhere near ready to be first sub in. Poor decision again from Gerrard
Young 3 - a walking red card, embarrassing cameo.
Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
‘Cowardly?’
Good grief.
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I’m not really sure what McGinn’s role is now. He’s not good at defending and he’s not doing anything creative. He’s a complete passenger.
I was telling my Owls fan mate at recent social gathering that McGinn has a reputation which far exceeds his usual performance
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Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Gerrard needs some serious questions asked of him tonight. We've had over two weeks without a competitive fixture, yet we looked woefully under prepared tonight. Smith (and Bruce for that matter) got hammered for not being able to manage games on the fly, but Gerrard doesn't seem to be able to either.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw
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Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Gerrard needs some serious questions asked of him tonight. We've had over two weeks without a competitive fixture, yet we looked woefully under prepared tonight. Smith (and Bruce for that matter) got hammered for not being able to manage games on the fly, but Gerrard doesn't seem to be able to either.
Exactly. What the fuck were they doing in that time?
Mings was saying how great everything is just the other day
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I really enjoyed that as a spectacle which I'm surprised I'm saying after we threw away the lead. But thought there was some great finishing from both sides and a lot of aggression.
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Farce really, from 3-1 up against that Leeds team to draw 3-3 and finish with 10. Really worried about our coach to be honest. Reminiscent of Deano. Timing of changes, selection of subs, no tactical changes. Our players got no help from the sideline at all for the second game in a row.
Magic moments from Coutinho and Ramsey. Buendia got us going early on when we were getting schooled. Those three aside performances verged from average to rotten. Mings with arguably his worst performance for the club though I recall Bamford embarrassing him in this fixture previously. Leeds fully deserved a point, missing their three best players.
Martinez 5 - looked shaky from set pieces, Mings bailed him out for one
Cash 5 - stop diving in please, fine assist for first but part of a hopeless defensive unit
Konsa 2 - didn't block shot for the first and got worse from there, ending in farce. Horror show
Mings 1 - at fault for three goals, saved one in fairness. Thinks he's Maldini with the ball. Drinky levels performance
Digne 5 - missed a sitter and average throughout really
Luiz 3 - horror first half, won tackle that set up third, half hearted at best
McGinn 4 - can't pass a ball to save himself. In team on reputation only and has been for weeks
Ramsey 8 - two brilliant finishes and driving runs. Couldn't get him involved in second half
Coutinho 8 - started poorly and then a magic spell. Fitness still a problem
Watkins 4 - see McGinn, rotten again.
Chucky 4 - nowhere near ready to be first sub in. Poor decision again from Gerrard
Young 3 - a walking red card, embarrassing cameo.
Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Good post. But Gerrard gets a 1 for me.
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Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Gerrard needs some serious questions asked of him tonight. We've had over two weeks without a competitive fixture, yet we looked woefully under prepared tonight. Smith (and Bruce for that matter) got hammered for not being able to manage games on the fly, but Gerrard doesn't seem to be able to either.
Also, I would expect to see more signs of improvement, particualrly after the time off but not convinced. We seem to have periods of looking good but not creating much. A few bits of quality that gets us goals. Other than that its just whether the back 5 are on form or not.
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Getting the right DM is more important than getting a DM in. Marv if healthy or Morgan Sanson needs to replace Luiz. Even SJM isn't safe.
Absolutely although and don't thinks Sanson is physical enough for that role.
Physicality is great but awareness is even more important. And ability to pass and move.
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SJM is playing too wide on the right.
Watkins seems unfit or just lacking in confidence.
Doug would look so much better further forward but we already have too many midfielders like that.
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Ultimately disappointing but great goals from Coutinho and JJ. It could be worse...
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw
Mings was even worse than I remembered. Fucking hell.
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Farce really, from 3-1 up against that Leeds team to draw 3-3 and finish with 10. Really worried about our coach to be honest. Reminiscent of Deano. Timing of changes, selection of subs, no tactical changes. Our players got no help from the sideline at all for the second game in a row.
Magic moments from Coutinho and Ramsey. Buendia got us going early on when we were getting schooled. Those three aside performances verged from average to rotten. Mings with arguably his worst performance for the club though I recall Bamford embarrassing him in this fixture previously. Leeds fully deserved a point, missing their three best players.
Martinez 5 - looked shaky from set pieces, Mings bailed him out for one
Cash 5 - stop diving in please, fine assist for first but part of a hopeless defensive unit
Konsa 2 - didn't block shot for the first and got worse from there, ending in farce. Horror show
Mings 1 - at fault for three goals, saved one in fairness. Thinks he's Maldini with the ball. Drinky levels performance
Digne 5 - missed a sitter and average throughout really
Luiz 3 - horror first half, won tackle that set up third, half hearted at best
McGinn 4 - can't pass a ball to save himself. In team on reputation only and has been for weeks
Ramsey 8 - two brilliant finishes and driving runs. Couldn't get him involved in second half
Coutinho 8 - started poorly and then a magic spell. Fitness still a problem
Watkins 4 - see McGinn, rotten again.
Chucky 4 - nowhere near ready to be first sub in. Poor decision again from Gerrard
Young 3 - a walking red card, embarrassing cameo.
Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Good post. But Gerrard gets a 1 for me.
That bad??? No way, great game and yes mistakes but come on..SUPPORT
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Buendia?
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Mings is fucking awful. How many goals has he cost us now. Dreadful.
Cleared one off the line just before Leeds' equaliser.
I think that passage of play sums him up.
Capable of heroic defending but always has an error in him.
I do think we're going to need to sign an upgrade pretty soon. Done well while we've had him but if we want to get to the next level we need improvements.
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Really thought we were going to run away with it at 3-1. That goal just before half time was a momentum shifter. If Digne makes it 4-2 just after maybe it would be different again.
I don't think the second half performance was quite as bad as some are making out but we were hanging on after Konsa's stupidity and we seemed to lose our heads generally. I hate playing this lot under Bielsa. Only win has been in that terrible game at theirs last season. Whatever it is they seem to have something over us. Hopefully we break it at their place again this season.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw
Mings was even worse than I remembered. Fucking hell.
I thought previous criticism of Tyrone was a bit much, but today had an absolute stinker.
Fantastic game in the first half, and promises exciting times ahead.
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Getting the right DM is more important than getting a DM in. Marv if healthy or Morgan Sanson needs to replace Luiz. Even SJM isn't safe.
Absolutely although and don't thinks Sanson is physical enough for that role.
Physicality is great but awareness is even more important. And ability to pass and move.
Without a doubt but Doug has the ability to pass and move but isint the right answer in that position. He gets bullied off the ball and cant tackle to save his life. Admittedly he doesn't have the awareness and speed to get back into position.
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15 minutes of wonder sandwiched by utter shit.
Second half was wank. No energy, fight or fluidity to our game.
I’m not sure about this winning mentality we are trying to instill when we start fucking time wasting after 80 minutes while not actually winning the game and completely give up with 8 mins injury time on the clock.
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
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Think I watched a different match - there’s a lot of very dramatic reactions here. Thought other than a very wobbly 10 minutes in the first half we really bossed the first half and played some cracking stuff. The problem was the second when we tried to shore it up by playing the defence a bit deeper which worked to a point in that you didn’t see anything of James but it failed to actually give us any control of the match.
Defensively it was a bit of a horror show, yes, but I think some of that is just the way Leeds open the game up so much.
Konsa, Mings were v poor and Luiz was anonymous in a game where we needed him to give us protection.
Not really sure why SG gets so much flack. Buendia injured, Konsa sent off and Coutinho runs out of puff - doesn’t really leave much other options for subs and there wasn’t much on the bench today tbh
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
He was injured I think
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Pathetic display against a Leeds team missing their best players. Too many players being found out now and far too reliant on individual brilliance.
Dreading Sunday against a Newcastle team with their tails up.
I'll say it again. We are still nowhere near being safe
Are you seriously suggesting we’re in any relegation danger? Good grief, get a grip man.
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I think games like tonight's go a long way to telling Gerrard who and where we need to upgrade. Mings, Luiz, Watkins and Konsa just haven't kicked on from last season. The reason we've lost 11 is that we have a below average PL defence for most of the season with a square peg in a round hole as DM. Even Martinez doesn't look as secure as last season and who can blame him.
Watkins aint going to be good enough if we have genuine european ambitions either i'm sorry to say.
Positives was Coutiniho and Ramsey, both excellent with Buendia again linking well. Relieved with a point in the end.
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Buendia?
7....got us playing when we were really struggling and we badly missed him when he went off.
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Shocking at the back. Not getting a CDM will really hamper us for the remainder of the season. Very odd that we seemed surprised that Leeds were going to man mark.
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10 points away from relegation. 9 points away from Europe. Neither will happen this season. I think I might have mentioned similar previously.
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Frustrating night.
And most of the cars on the Holford estate got parking tickets tonight as well !
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For those who have suggested the importance of the DM was a bit of a myth, watch that game back.
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10 points away from relegation. 9 points away from Europe. Neither will happen this season. I think I might have mentioned similar previously.
Agreed. Both times.
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10 points away from relegation. 9 points away from Europe. Neither will happen this season. I think I might have mentioned similar previously.
That was in response to BCV.
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
I'd imagine Coutinho may not have a full 90 mins in him. With Leeds equalising the momentum's with them and you take 3-3 even if it's frustrating having been 3-1 up. Losing 4-3 would have been would have been a real kick in the nuts.
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If that was Coutinho at only 70% then wow. What a player we could have.
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It’s all been said.
Couldn’t get over how much Leeds were hurting us down the left flank.
Is that £40m still on the table?
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
Young was embarrassing when he came on. Time for clear heads and calmness on ball. Young was charging around the field looking to kick Leeds players. Bit of an old pals act with Gerrard that needs ending.
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Find it frustrating that Ings wasn't included at all in that game and at 3-2 of course one idea is to tighten things however the open aspect to the match and us having superior players for scoring and creating would have seen us score more goals if we continued that way second half
For me Gerrard is a cautious manager I've always said that and that there are small shades of Rafael Benítez and Bruce in being steady and his subs illustrated that
The use of McGinn was particularly not effective and Watkins didn't deserve to play the whole match
Konsa was stupid and deserved his sending off. Senseless
Mings was fantastic in his approach to carry the ball and team forward and could see his real effort so that outweighs the harsh crictics
There was no fluency and I'm disappointed in the subs that were made not to mention some of the choices of players shipped out on loan who could have come on.
At 3-1 it's criminal to draw that match and the tactics are all wrong and being unable to assert our style whatever that may be as well as the narrow and lack of pace in front positions is a notable concern that comes with the system
Plenty of positives in the goals but yet again we see lack of any shots at goal and goal threat and feel under Steven G we don't have that much actually shooting threat when I would have liked him to encourage them to do so more.
Ramsey and Coutinho were amazing in some real highlights of first half but second half forgettable and move now to a hopefully more controlled display away at Newcastle
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Lucky to get a point against an understrength LeedZzz outfit. Shite. Ramsey and PC before he tired - OK. The rest - NoK.
Imagine if we’d have played one of the actual big clubs tonight. Could have been embarrassing.
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
Young was embarrassing when he came on. Time for clear heads and calmness on ball. Young was charging around the field looking to kick Leeds players. Bit of an old pals act with Gerrard that needs ending.
Really?? Sad
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
Young was embarrassing when he came on. Time for clear heads and calmness on ball. Young was charging around the field looking to kick Leeds players. Bit of an old pals act with Gerrard that needs ending.
Really?? Sad
Young offers very little. Better of letting younger players have game time.
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Leeds do seem to raise their game at Villa Park and we always seem surprised by their pace and intensity.
We tried to take the pace out of the game in the second half but just handed Leeds the initiative. Might have worked at 3-1 but we didn’t look as if we would defend the one goal lead.
We struggled to get our full backs up the pitch but Harrison and Raphina are very good wide players and never stop.
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Positives Phil, JJ and Buendia all superb and will get even better, have supported Mings all season, but that was a horror show, Konsa now out for 2 games, as this was his 2nd red, so looks like been Chambers and Mings CD.
Their 2nd goal was a killer, a bit unfortunate as it could have gone anywhere of Doug's boot, I reckon if we had gone in 3-1, we have seen the game out. McGinn off form at the moment, but confident he'll be back to his best soon.
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Would love us to sign Coutinho, he really created so much amazing.
Last year the defence was one of the best in the PL, not sure what has gone wrong.
Midfield balance still isnt right, and means we never controlled the game other than the 15 mins when we were controlling it in the final 3rd.
Leeds had 2 or 3 of there best players out, so I think this has to go down as a poor result, particularly when we are 3-1 up.
I assume the tatic is that SG will attract better players, with Coutinho the case in point, other than that, if I'm honest I am no more convinced that he is the right man for the job then when I joined.
Having said that, he has certainly won me over, with his approach, the way he handles himself, and what he is trying to achiev. I like having him as our manager, and tbh I didnt think I would.
The excitiment around it all has been amazing - and according to most pundits we have "won" the transfer market in the summer and jan - but I cant get away from the fact that we are not any better than we were this time last season. Did we over achieve last season? And if so, does mean whoever the manager was. they were set up to fail this season.
We've won 1 of the last 6 and have played a shite man utd side twice, brentford, leeds and everton. We have had spell's in all those games when we have really good, but have been poor defensively in all apart from Everton, and the midfield seems to have lost most of the gains we have in SG's first games.
I hope it starts to click, as when it has we have looked amazing. Clearly, its still early days, but we're still less then the sum of our parts, and until that changes we will continue to have results like tonight. My gut says that its not just the players that are the issue.
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Throwback to the championship that.
Enjoyable watch but two points dropped even if we didn't play that well.
Sloppy goal to give away right on half time and that cost us the win.
Leeds is a dodgy match up for us but results like this will stop us getting much higher than 10th really.
Frustrating season in which we have long breaks just when we're getting momentum or our best players can't complete 90 minutes.
Still Ramsey is starting to look a very special midfield player and his link up with Coutinho is beautiful to watch.
Not sure Gerrard got the subs right either, think this would've been a good one to put Sanson on at 3-2 so he could rat around their midfield. Carney didn't do much at all.
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That was atrocious, basic football ability lacking of actually being able to pass to each other!
Coutinio MOM by a country mile, shone like a beacon!
Ramsay above criticism for his two well taken goals, still learning and will get better.
The rest of them rate between mediocrity and abysmal, with a few of them needing to take a good hard look at themselves and realise it is just not good enough!
Fair play to Leeds who played all the football and looked a very good outfit, it is just lucky for us that their defence is as crap as ours was tonight! James looks an outstanding player and never stopped working for Leeds, causing us all sort of problems.
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I agree with most of the assessments about tonight. We had a purple patch of 20 minutes and the rest was chaotic at times.
Mings spent the game trying to make amends for his mistakes and ended up compounding them and Konsa hasn't been great recently. I think that's a two game ban now for his second red this season.
Why on earth there was applause for him as he went off, I do not know.
McGinn looked as if he'd put on a couple of pounds and I don't know what is happening with Ollie.
Raphinha actually didn't do much tonight, but we were poor against Harrison and James and failed to exploit Leeds's equally dodgy defence in the second half.
On the plus side Coutinho had a great spell and Ramsey continues to belie his age.
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Konsa, Mings and Luiz absolutely abysmal. Watkins not far behind.
JJ, Coutinho and Buendia were brilliant.
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For those who have suggested the importance of the DM was a bit of a myth, watch that game back.
I wondered pre match if Chambers might get in at DM.He'll start on Sunday, just a question of which position.
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Hindsight is 20-20, but it would have been better to put Chambers into DM when Buendia came off and push Luiz further forward.
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Good points… Ramsay and Coutinho. Bad points… McGinn and Watkins who were both dreadful.
In particular, I’m calling out Ollie. What the hell is up with him. He’s not even looking like scoring recently. He could still be out there now and not look like grabbing one. On that performance, he has to be dropped
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Taking off Coutinho for Young was a dreadful decision.
Young was embarrassing when he came on. Time for clear heads and calmness on ball. Young was charging around the field looking to kick Leeds players. Bit of an old pals act with Gerrard that needs ending.
And this is the most experienced player on the field as well.
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Ings is a much better player than Watkins.
He's got to start the next match.
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I enjoyed the game but terrible defending at times and not just from the defence. He’ll replace mings in the summer, who had one of those games where he clears everything, then makes a mistake. Really hope we can afford to keep PC in the summer. He’s something else.
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10 points away from relegation. 9 points away from Europe. Neither will happen this season. I think I might have mentioned similar previously.
We've won 1 game in the last 6 and our performances have generally fallen well short of what we need. With teams below us showing signs of stiring, 9 points is not an insurmountable gap when we need 3 or 4 goals to get even a draw.
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Hindsight is 20-20, but it would have been better to put Chambers into DM when Buendia came off and push Luiz further forward.
Dean Smith may have done that not Gerrard style from what I see
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For those who have suggested the importance of the DM was a bit of a myth, watch that game back.
I wondered pre match if Chambers might get in at DM.He'll start on Sunday, just a question of which position.
Clearly he start at Centre half. Konsa suspended.
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Hause?
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10 points away from relegation. 9 points away from Europe. Neither will happen this season. I think I might have mentioned similar previously.
We've won 1 game in the last 6 and our performances have generally fallen well short of what we need. With teams below us showing signs of stiring, 9 points is not an insurmountable gap when we need 3 or 4 goals to get even a draw.
Tonight was disappointing but we'll be pretty much safe by end of this month/early March.
We needed one goal to win a game all of the last game we played before tonight (although that feels like about three months ago!)
Disappointing tonight though as messing up game from 3-1 up suggests even going for 8th remains a bit of a pipe dream and I'd still like us to at least have a go for it.
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I'd let Watkins, Mings and Luiz go in the summer. None of them very good, and bizarrely we will make a profit on all of them most likely. You may well fetch £100m for them.
Spend big on a DM, and a better central defender (maybe Gomez) and let Archer slug it out witH Ings for the place up front. Reckon we will have a much better balance. I'd also take the money for McGinn if we got offered upwards of £40m.
Coutinho, Ramsey and Buendia are all brilliant. I'd like to see Ings have a run now, think he will score every game playing with those three.
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I'd let Watkins, Mings and Luiz go in the summer. None of them very good, and bizarrely we will make a profit on all of them most likely. You may well fetch £100m for them.
Spend big on a DM, and a better central defender (maybe Gomez) and let Archer slug it out witH Ings for the place up front. Reckon we will have a much better balance. I'd also take the money for McGinn if we got offered upwards of £40m.
Coutinho, Ramsey and Buendia are all brilliant. I'd like to see Ings have a run now, think he will score every game playing with those three.
I'd probably agree with that to be honest although I wouldn't say they aren't very good. Just that they've been good servants but we should be looking to upgrade now. Although with Luiz I'd like him to be playing further up the field as he's not a DM and so would keep him for that.
It's definitely time for Ings to have a run of games. I'd like to see if he could combine effectively with Buendia and Coutinho (I think he could).
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We signed Chambers so I'm not sure what sort of strategy is going on after we lost out to Bentecur not wishing to come
As we be hard pushed to finish higher echelons will be hard pushed to get the calibre and upgrade of players needed although I would certainly use a lot of the young players coming through and build it that way.
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We signed Chambers so I'm not sure what sort of strategy is going on after we lost out to Bentecur not wishing to come
As we be hard pushed to finish higher echelons will be hard pushed to get the calibre and upgrade of players needed although I would certainly use a lot of the young players coming through and build it that way.
Wasn't it that we pulled out on the Bentencaur deal? We got in Coutinho and Digne whilst being bottom half so it's not out of the realms to be upgrading.
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Farce really, from 3-1 up against that Leeds team to draw 3-3 and finish with 10. Really worried about our coach to be honest. Reminiscent of Deano. Timing of changes, selection of subs, no tactical changes. Our players got no help from the sideline at all for the second game in a row.
Magic moments from Coutinho and Ramsey. Buendia got us going early on when we were getting schooled. Those three aside performances verged from average to rotten. Mings with arguably his worst performance for the club though I recall Bamford embarrassing him in this fixture previously. Leeds fully deserved a point, missing their three best players.
Martinez 5 - looked shaky from set pieces, Mings bailed him out for one
Cash 5 - stop diving in please, fine assist for first but part of a hopeless defensive unit
Konsa 2 - didn't block shot for the first and got worse from there, ending in farce. Horror show
Mings 1 - at fault for three goals, saved one in fairness. Thinks he's Maldini with the ball. Drinky levels performance
Digne 5 - missed a sitter and average throughout really
Luiz 3 - horror first half, won tackle that set up third, half hearted at best
McGinn 4 - can't pass a ball to save himself. In team on reputation only and has been for weeks
Ramsey 8 - two brilliant finishes and driving runs. Couldn't get him involved in second half
Coutinho 8 - started poorly and then a magic spell. Fitness still a problem
Watkins 4 - see McGinn, rotten again.
Chucky 4 - nowhere near ready to be first sub in. Poor decision again from Gerrard
Young 3 - a walking red card, embarrassing cameo.
Gerrard 3 - really bad. Team didn't look ready at all for Leeds first 20 minutes. 3-2 at half time and we were cowardly in the second half I thought. Stupid subs, leaving experienced players like Sanson and Ings on bench is ridiculous when we badly needed them on the pitch. No tactical shift.
Good post. But Gerrard gets a 1 for me.
How many ultra negative posts in one thread..tiresome, get a grip. Can we have flinstone back for some positivity!
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We signed Chambers so I'm not sure what sort of strategy is going on after we lost out to Bentecur not wishing to come
As we be hard pushed to finish higher echelons will be hard pushed to get the calibre and upgrade of players needed although I would certainly use a lot of the young players coming through and build it that way.
Wasn't it that we pulled out on the Bentencaur deal? We got in Coutinho and Digne whilst being bottom half so it's not out of the realms to be upgrading.
Great point.
I just hope we get the targets we want as seems there are opportunistic transfers going on with likes of Ings , Coutinho, Digne and Chambers
Just hope for proper summer plans to come to fruition.
The winter moves were excellent and wonderful additions bit they were ones that werent long time planning
I expect the summer moves to be but could all depend how high up we finish
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Hause?
Hause is a Left footed centre back and Gerrard for all his tacticall fault won't make same mistake as our Deano and drop Mings.
Chambers and Mings offer the balance
I dont rate Chambers at all for anything other than a squad competition he a back up he's no Konsa
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SG called it in his post-match interview on BT Sport.
We got suckered into playing the game Leeds wanted and never controlled possession.
It is little wonder that Leeds have so many players injured, they play like they are hopped up on the pipe, and the man to man marking means 8 players are under immediate pressure, not to say physical threat. I always like to watch them as a neutral, it's an engrossing spectacle.
The game after we play them, guaranteed minimum 1 player banned and 2 injured.
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How is it that they allowed the last Leeds goal? He is climbing all over our player.
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Not great but not an apocalyptic debacle. Leeds are just a hard side to play. Also I'm not buying the narrative that they had their best players out. We've spent years bagging Bamford as shit and Phillips as overrated. Can't have it both ways.
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Strange one tonight, as came away disappointed that we let a 2 goal lead slip, but relieved in some ways that we got a draw as we looked so vulnerable at times.
Thought we were really going to blow them away in the closing stages of the first half, but that was a really poor goal to concede just before half time. We just never got going in the 2nd half and rarely threatened.
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After tonight I have some begrudging admiration for Luke Ayling. He’s the kind of wind up merchant that you’d like in your team but plays with a smile on his face and as far as I know was with them in the lower leagues and is holding his own as a good premiership player.
How the hell he never got booked I’ll never know.
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Luiz would be a great deal for us if we sell him for £30m+ in the summer.
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…Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but also a special shout-out for Ezri Konsa already on a yellow, deciding to fuck around with their goalkeeper who was going down like he’d been shot if so much as a strong breeze wafted past him!
Ridiculous to even attempt it and now makes us weaker in the next match.
Slow clap for Ezri.
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Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.
And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.
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Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.
And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. Anyway onwards to Sunday.
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👆👏 in response to Pat Mustard
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First Half was Exhilarating. Absolutely fantastic Entertainment.
Coutinho put in a world class performance and it was nice to see a player of that ability at Villa Park and Ramsey was absolutely superb.
You can see what Steven is trying to do and it's far more appealing on the eye than the later days of the Dean Smith era BUT if we want to progress we really need to cut out the absolutely ridiculous mistakes and poor decision making.
Ings should have been introduced sooner as I thought Ollie Watkins had possibly his worst night in a Villa Jersey.
The CDM position needed to be filled in the January window and we failed miserably.
Letting Matt Targett go to Sundays opposition ,who if get a Victory over us will be breathing down our necks will prove to be a tragic decision
The Newcastle fans will be up for it Sunday and it could be a intimidating cauldron of noise where mistakes like tonight will be pounced upon. Let's hope the very basics of defending are drilled into the players over the next couple of days and we get something from the game
A great big reality check to those dreaming of European Conference League football next season
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Fair play to Leeds who played all the football and looked a very good outfit, it is just lucky for us that their defence is as crap as ours was tonight! James looks an outstanding player and never stopped working for Leeds, causing us all sort of problems.
Fair play indeed. They've had an horrible injury list throughout most of the season and are only 4 points behind us. They've a small squad without the injuries and I think they've played 8 teenagers this season, a PL record. Tonight wasn't the Bielsa Masterclass of last seasons game at Villa Park but it wasn't too far off. They dictated the play and we basically couldn't cope or play our own game.
They are far more than the hardest working team in the league, their players know how to control a ball first touch, their supporting movement is very good and they create chances. Bielsa has had them playing in that system from day one and when it's works it's brilliant. See the West Ham game. They're no where near as bad as their league position and fortunately we won't come up against many teams that well drilled.
We on the other hand have a lot of work to do to get to where Gerrard wants us to be. What is really disappointing is after such a long break when we had supposedly been working on improving our style of play we get a performance like that. Back to the bloody drawing board.
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Buendia?
Buendia showed some class 7.Why was he taken off?
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Buendia?
Buendia showed some class 7.Why was he taken off?
He appeared to be struggling almost straight after kicking off for the second half but carried on for another 15 or so minutes.
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Superb football played in that 20 minute spell. Well worth the visit in the cold to Villa park tonight. I am absolutely delighted to see a Birmingham lad standing tall, shoulder to shoulder with one of the best in the world. JJ is special and will grow more and more with Coutinho by his side.
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Emi2 picked up an injury in the warmups, so I was surprised that he lasted as long as he did
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Emi2 picked up an injury in the warmups, so I was surprised that he lasted as long as he did
Yeah. He seemed to be in trouble every time had to stretch.
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Positives
Buendia continues to impress. Felt we lost control after he went off. He links up so well with Countinho who was fantastic, hopefully it's a minor knock and he's back Sunday, as he really is an excellent player.
JJ is starting to look more and more like a certain somebody. If he can add some doggedness and steel off the ball in a defensive capacity to, then he really will be something incredibly special.
Attacking style. We're good to watch. I'm liking how insanely high both full backs go. Digne is night and day with Targett, a significant attacking upgrade.
I feel the system will work best when he have a genuine 6 and Dougie can compete for one of the 8s.
Negatives
Mings. Leeds don't have a preset, they sort of resemble a cartoon Tasmanian Devil who has sunk a couple of cans of Monster. It's all tempo, energy and arm waving headless chicken play, which is why I don't think they exert too much pressure even with the ball, as it all doesn't make a great deal of sense.
The line they did pick with some discipline was the gap either side of Mings, who was slow to engage and absolutely woeful for the most part tonight. As was Konsa, who was deservedly sent off for some stupidity. A genuine 6 would cover some of their blushes, but you cannot accept the individual errors that lead to all the goals.
People are asking about what we were doing the past 18 days; self evidently working on some next level Attacking play that can and will blow sides away in the blink of an eye. But you can talk about shape, distances and energy as much as you like, work on it as much as you like, but it counts for nothing when you give goals away like that. In fact the last 5 against at Villa Park have all been so soft and poor. How do you coach that? Players take responsibility and eventually come the summer Lange will do the same for our left sided centre half. He isn't consistent over 90 minutes, never mind game to game.
Felt we were too passive after Buendia went off second half and we allowed the game to be frighteningly open throughout.
Watkins another negative for me. Seemed slow in the press and didn't offer a threat.
Some of the reactions on here are incredibly over the top.
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Exhilarating, encouraging, frustrating and disappointing all wrapped in one.
Not for the first time against this lot, we got dragged into playing it their way and a few too many of our lot got wrapped up in the frantic basketball game they like to create.
In the end, a point is far from a disaster.
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👆👏 in response to Pat Mustard
Seconded.
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👆👏 in response to Pat Mustard
Seconded.
When I first saw the quoted post, I thought the first emoji was the middle finger. Strange coves, these emojis.
Emojis aside, I agree. I think.
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My expert insight is: Leeds can and should fuck right off.
It may or may not have been my birthday today, and I was considering going along. I hate Leeds, so beating them would've been good, but I decided last week that losing to them would've ruined not only the day but the week. Risk vs reward.
I did try to contact Bielsa to see if they could lose to make it worth my while, but the bucket-loving twat ignored me. His selfishness would've disgusted me, but it's Leeds, so frankly, I'm not even surprised.
I don't have much faith in modern football, but ignoring the wish of a terminally ill child*? Whose parents were gurkhas killed on 9/11*? And not only ignoring him but shitting all over his special day?
Beyond the fucking pale.
Absolutely disgraceful, and it's no wonder everybody hates them.
*may not be true
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My expert insight is: Leeds can and should fuck right off.
It may or may not have been my birthday today, and I was considering going along. I hate Leeds, so beating them would've been good, but I decided last week that losing to them would've ruined not only the day but the week. Risk vs reward.
I did try to contact Bielsa to see if they could lose to make it worth my while, but the bucket-loving twat ignored me. His selfishness would've disgusted me, but it's Leeds, so frankly, I'm not even surprised.
I don't have much faith in modern football, but ignoring the wish of a terminally ill child*? Whose parents were gurkhas killed on 9/11*? And not only ignoring him but shitting all over his special day?
Beyond the fucking pale.
Absolutely disgraceful, and it's no wonder everybody hates them.
*may not be true
Happy birthday, Rory!
It's mine on Friday. I hope you had a good, if slightly less good than the one I'll have, day.
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They waltzed through our midfield and the pace of their wide players caused us problems. Coutino is a brilliant player and Ramsey will get the benefit. Bielsa deserves credit for them playing to the same system no matter how many injured players they have. JM looks lost and the defence in general really struggles with corners. That twenty minute spell in the first half was what we should be looking for the whole game.
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One of the oddest games I've ever seen - first half was game of the season stuff, second 45 was just a horrible niggly slog. I can't honestly remember the trainers coming on so many times and it was a frustrating watch at times. Plus points Buendia superb again as was Coutinho, minus points Tyrone scares me at times and I do think the veneer of his public image is no longer protecting him from criticism from what I heard last night.
Was Martinez taking the piss out of their lot when he just fell over towards the end?? - if he was I just love the bloke.
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Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.
And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.
Whilst Mings made the costly mistakes, I felt he was [attempting] to do all the defending on his own. Konsa was pathetic. The narrow attacking midfielders is really exposing our full backs and McGinn and Luiz don’t offer enough protection.
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Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.
And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.
Well said Pat.
Mings made some mistakes, but also saved us on numerous occasions and drive us forwards on a number of occasions, when nobody else was.
Like another poster said, im disappointed we never won but relieved we never lost as only one team looked like winning in 2nd half and it wasn’t us. The goal before half time plus the injuries to Beundia and Coutinhio prevented any 2nd momentum for us. We get a point and move on to Sunday.
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My expert insight is: Leeds can and should fuck right off.
It may or may not have been my birthday today, and I was considering going along. I hate Leeds, so beating them would've been good, but I decided last week that losing to them would've ruined not only the day but the week. Risk vs reward.
I did try to contact Bielsa to see if they could lose to make it worth my while, but the bucket-loving twat ignored me. His selfishness would've disgusted me, but it's Leeds, so frankly, I'm not even surprised.
I don't have much faith in modern football, but ignoring the wish of a terminally ill child*? Whose parents were gurkhas killed on 9/11*? And not only ignoring him but shitting all over his special day?
Beyond the fucking pale.
Absolutely disgraceful, and it's no wonder everybody hates them.
*may not be true
Happy birthday, Rory!
It's mine on Friday. I hope you had a good, if slightly less good than the one I'll have, day.
Happy birthday, both.
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You won’t see a worse attempted clearance all season than Mings tamely passing to their player a few yards out. Woeful.
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The way Gerrard plays means that here is inevitably pressure at the central defensive area and this game proved we are no where near strong enough there.
Would love to see a centre forward that could feed off Coutinho and Buendia.
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👆👏 in response to Pat Mustard
Seconded.
Very good summary Pat.
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Pat watched the same game as me, well said sir.
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Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.
And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.
What the hell you doing giving an honest assessment here. Don't you know you have to give the standard 'Mings is shite'
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And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.
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An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.
I thought the referee was particularly poor.
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And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.
Sorry mate, that's bollocks. Konsa was terrible, and the two midfielders in front of them were invisible.
I also thought Martinez should have claimed the cross that led to the equaliser, didn't seem to be anybody in his way.
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Feel more positive about it after a nights sleep. Some great football going forward, not sure whats happened to the defense we had last season.
Think without a DM, we will struggle with SG formation as it invites too much pressure on the CB - also neither are great with the ball at the feet unless its a surging run. Think we should have looked to get in one on loan if we couldnt get our right target. The fact that we have failed to strengthen in that area in the last 3 windows is an area of concern - particularly when we seem to have made strangely low offers for targets.
Still struggling with what to make of it all, we say about replacing McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Mings - but if they leave it will all be to go to clubs that finished higher in the league.
It is an exciting and frustrating journey at the moment - I would really like us to rally in the rest of the season and finish 9th. I dont think any higher is realistic from that point, but I think we need to do some of our talking on the pitch to be able to attract better prospects in the summer.
As a few people have noted there is a lot of negativity on this forum, and I'm guilty of that, but I do think there is a legitimatacy in some of it. I think that is caused by the fact we are seeing good players regress slightly, and after a positive start things like the midfield have gone back to not working and we're not winning games.
Our stated aim is year on year improvement, and it by no means certain we will do that, despite having what appears to be a much more balanced squad.
Clearly at the momement, we need to give it time, and at least its fun. I just feel we have the best owners in the league, and I don't want us to waste them.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw
Mings was even worse than I remembered. Fucking hell.
Just what I was going to say. He's implicated in all three their goals. Got turned too easily their first. Got beaten in the air by James for their second and although he did well to be on the line for the block it was a timid clearance that gave the ball straight back to Llorente for the third. The Leeds fans singing "Mings is shit" just about sums it up. He's not shit hes a decent player and a great bloke by all accounts but he's getting quite a bad reputation from neutral fans. I think it's time for an upgrade on big Ty.
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And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.
Sorry mate, that's bollocks. Konsa was terrible, and the two midfielders in front of them were invisible.
I also thought Martinez should have claimed the cross that led to the equaliser, didn't seem to be anybody in his way.
I agree with LeeB.
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As do I. I thought Konsa had as poor a game as Mings. Emi was poor, as were McGinn and Doug.
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Mings is fighting a lone battle when Konsa is off his game. Look at our shape - Cash and Digne incredibly high, with the only protection afforded to our centre-halves coming from Ramsay, JM and Doug, who all have deeper starting positions than the full backs. Ramsay gets a pass because of what he does going forwards, but as I might have said in the transfer thread, I’d gladly sell the other two first choice midfielders and add whatever balance it takes to replace them with Ward-Prowse and Bissouma (which wouldn’t actually be that much if figures being bandied around are true).
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An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.
I thought the referee was particularly poor.
It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.
We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.
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Exhilarating and frustrating in equal measure
we are watching some really good football now chaps, exciting players who have the ability to get us out of our seats and blow our minds, after the drizzle and shit we’ve had to endure over the last decade Villa Park is a great place to be again, although anything can happen at any time good or bad
my lad is nearly 14 now, he had no interest in football at all until Benteke made him fall in love with the game, but the years to follow were some of the worst ever as a Villa supporter
Now he’s watching Coutinho, Ramsey, Buendia, McGinn, Martinez players he will remember for the rest of his life just as I look back at Gray, Shaw, Little, McGrath and Platt
yes we made too many mistakes last night especially in defence
Our expectations and playing standards are higher than they have been for the last 10 years and i’ve always advocated we aim As high as possible and not just settle for mediocre
So I was pissed off that we let a two-goal lead go but it’s still a great time to be a Villa fan
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An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.
I thought the referee was particularly poor.
It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.
We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.
It's a small thing, in what was overall a disappointing result albeit with flashes that were really good, but I was very happy to see a couple of Leeds players down with creamp near the end. The intensity they play at, and the supposed fitness levels they have, it showed we really matched them in effort. I suspect they haven't worked that hard in quite a while.
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And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.
Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.
What about Mings carrying ball forward , his headers where he nearly scored and his runs with the ball and winning some booming headers and thunderous challenges and intercepting that was hardly f×××ing poor was it . Far from it in fact notary central defenders carry the ball and fight so noticeable as him yesterday and the time he mayraded forwarded on the left wing and provided a telling pull back was sheer quality.
Oh and he cleared balls of the line and our of our box. Let's gave a fair nd balanced assessment shall we.
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Exhilarating and frustrating in equal measure
we are watching some really good football now chaps, exciting players who have the ability to get us out of our seats and blow our minds, after the drizzle and shit we’ve had to endure over the last decade Villa Park is a great place to be again, although anything can happen at any time good or bad
my lad is nearly 14 now, he had no interest in football at all until Benteke made him fall in love with the game, but the years to follow were some of the worst ever as a Villa supporter
Now he’s watching Coutinho, Ramsey, Buendia, McGinn, Martinez players he will remember for the rest of his life just as I look back at Gray, Shaw, Little, McGrath and Platt
yes we made too many mistakes last night especially in defence
Our expectations and playing standards are higher than they have been for the last 10 years and i’ve always advocated we aim As high as possible and not just settle for mediocre
So I was pissed off that we let a two-goal lead go but it’s still a great time to be a Villa fan
Yeah - thats a good summary and was Pat's
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An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.
I thought the referee was particularly poor.
It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.
We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.
It's a small thing, in what was overall a disappointing result albeit with flashes that were really good, but I was very happy to see a couple of Leeds players down with creamp near the end. The intensity they play at, and the supposed fitness levels they have, it showed we really matched them in effort. I suspect they haven't worked that hard in quite a while.
They hadn't played for 16 days would be the reason to my eyes.
But then they are difficult to match.
Dan James was giving nightmares due to his pace and I don’t think we prepared well enough for that. They targeted the space and did what they do I thought once we engaged in their style of play we matched them and outscored them. We should have continued in this vein but it scared Gerrard principles of controlling the football game
We should have been prepared to be out of control and possession and quick to counter and transition make the game a one off we did that first half once we came to terms but second half was a forgettable experience and Leeds only looked like winning.
Its a good lesson for Gerrard and the team though and maybe sometimes getting away from the narrow 4-3-3 has to be done in future matches.
Have to be flexible rather than predictable.
The line up now is setting itself with the first choice 11 and that shouldn't be the case for the quality and variation on our squad. I don't think it helped loaning out far too many players who would have provided a real impact if involved yesterday.
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Having slept on it I think last night was par for the course given the upheaval we have had this season, Leeds Jekyll and Hyde style of play, and the fact that they appear to be a bogey side of late.
Only 15 mins in last night I mused that Doug's time may be up with us but more concerningly, McGinn seems all at sea. The CB's were exposed and made uncharacteristic mistakes, certainly as far as Konsa is concerned. Ahead of Newcastle the midfield needs work. Perhaps dropping McGinn to DM, we have enough going forward to sacrifice him in that role and bringing Sanson in for Doug.
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I thought Doug was completely anonymous last night and that didn't help defensively at all.
Also I'm a huge fan but Konsa has no complaints with his yellows. Absolutely stupid decision making on his part and along with Mings he had a night to forget overall.
But it was brilliant to get back to watching a live game again and boy did we see some magical play at times.
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Can anyone explain why the hell have we got one world class player that takes great free kicks and another very decent left footed player that is also excellent ........and Dougie is taking them?
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Anyone else concerned about the size of Martinez yet how poor he seems to be on crosses into the box. Anything inside the 6 yard box has to be the goalkeepers - absolute basics
McGinn - Have said for a while his personality certainly out weighs his ability - with SG already claiming his love for him i doubt he will ever be dropped - but he should be.
Watkins - needs dropping
Luiz - Not his natural position to be fair but still a waste of a player in there most of the time
Mings - at his best he is a colossus, at his worst a liability
Really need a response on Sunday but i somehow doubt it
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Anyone else concerned about the size of Martinez yet how poor he seems to be on crosses into the box. Anything inside the 6 yard box has to be the goalkeepers - absolute basics
McGinn - Have said for a while his personality certainly out weighs his ability - with SG already claiming his love for him i doubt he will ever be dropped - but he should be.
Watkins - needs dropping
Luiz - Not his natural position to be fair but still a waste of a player in there most of the time
Mings - at his best he is a colossus, at his worst a liability
Really need a response on Sunday but i somehow doubt it
I maintain Konsa was the worst of the lot last night, and that’s rare because I think generally he’s very good. Mings looked worse because he took more risk, but Konsa was consistently terrible last night. There were influencing factors, like Emi being below his normal standards and McGinn and Doug doing very little, but he had a shocker.
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👆👏 in response to Pat Mustard
Seconded.
Very good summary Pat.
Thirded.
I'll add that Mings was doing the work of two central defenders due to an under performing Konsa (who looked injured) such was his involvement throughout. There wouldn't have been a mention of his mistakes if Digne had put that good chance he created when he drove forward at the end of the first half. Leeds were very good that needs to be taken into account too. In hindsight, once we went 3-1 up we should have gone tighter and contained Leeds' drive.
A draw was a fair result overall.
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I was quite concerned with the way we defended last night. Both centre backs were below their best, especially Ezri Konsa whose positioning at times left Tyrone Mings exposed, and the midfield offered little protection. We seemed to defend quite narrow while Leeds had wide players pushed out to the touchlines which caused us problems. Going forward Phillipe Coutinho's speed of thought and execution of passing is brilliant to watch but it was obvious Ollie Watkins hasn't adjusted to playing with him yet but Jacob Ramsey is loving playing alongside him - three goals in two home games all assisted by Coutinho. What Steven Gerrard is trying to achieve and how is becoming more apparent but all of the players haven't caught up yet and we are still a work in progress. A couple of individual errors cost us goals but I'm not blaming Mings for those as he was not helped by those around him. All of this seems like a moan butnwe have come a long way in quite a short time - it was only three years ago that we were nicking a point from Sheffield United with three goals in eight minutes.
One other thing I noticed was how concerned Luke Ayling, a player I don't particularly like, looked when our players went down. Because it was Leeds I'm not sure if it was genuine though.
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Exhilarating and frustrating in equal measure
we are watching some really good football now chaps, exciting players who have the ability to get us out of our seats and blow our minds, after the drizzle and shit we’ve had to endure over the last decade Villa Park is a great place to be again, although anything can happen at any time good or bad
my lad is nearly 14 now, he had no interest in football at all until Benteke made him fall in love with the game, but the years to follow were some of the worst ever as a Villa supporter
Now he’s watching Coutinho, Ramsey, Buendia, McGinn, Martinez players he will remember for the rest of his life just as I look back at Gray, Shaw, Little, McGrath and Platt
yes we made too many mistakes last night especially in defence
Our expectations and playing standards are higher than they have been for the last 10 years and i’ve always advocated we aim As high as possible and not just settle for mediocre
So I was pissed off that we let a two-goal lead go but it’s still a great time to be a Villa fan
I agree with John, it's a good time to be a Villa fan, I'm trying to just sit back and enjoy it rather than worrying about what we should or should not be doing.
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This formation where our full backs are our wide men,relies on the defensive mids to cover and they just didn't do it last night.
This puts pressure on the centrebacks to over stretch themselves -------Konsa was caught out many times and Mings always has an error in him.
Dougie was rubbish (and I agree,why is he taking our freekicks?) and JMG wasn't in the game at all.
I can't help thinking that Ings would be better suited than Ollie to the probing through balls of Buendia and Coutinho too.
A great game, but 2 points were given away.
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And, to add, the last 5 goals I've watched us score at Villa Park have all been fucking brilliant and light years from anything we've seen at Villa for decades.
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its unusual for me to be the cheer leader but i cant agree with a lot of the negative comments about last nights performance
no way was it perfect but a decent overall performance punctuated with a few big clangers
i probably starts with the fact that i didn't think we were ever going to batter Leeds as some were expecting, i was reading a lot of Leeds are poor comments before the game and Biesla is some sort of management myth, and if you were looking at the game in that frame of mind where we just turn up and thrash them i suppose its a bitter disappointment
but for me Leeds are a good hard working side, with a lot of attacking intent at times, Biesla is a top class manager, the job he's done there is frankly astounding given the state they were in and investment
thought their second half performance was a bit spoiling which surprised me, but they were always going to be difficult to beat
so i knew we would be pushed, and we were, we played some really lovely stuff, scored some great goals but also made a lot of mistakes especially at the back
Mings and Konsa struggled but as i keep on saying neither are technically gifted footballers and some times that comes home to roost
upgrading them will have to be done in time but its difficult as there is a dirth of CB talent right across Europe
dont agree that Doug and McGinn were anonymous last night, maybe they weren't at the top of their game but i still think they contributed in some good attacking build up play any talk of dropping them is just ridiculous in my opinion
Ramsey, Bundia and Coutinho were our best players when they all went off momentum had gone and that bit of class, thought Gerrard got it wrong a bit there
Sanson would have been a more positive sub
on the whole i'm not as disappointed as some on here, it was a privilege to see some of the football played last night
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Good post John.
It feels like an opportunity missed to me, but we did play some great stuff. Dougie probably was a bit more advanced than I expected and I don't know if that contributed to the ridiculous amounts of space James kept finding, but that's more down to set up than his individual performance, which I thought was fine.
It was incredible to watch how Leeds just destroyed the flow of the game in the second half. It was a game management masterclass. I was a bit surprised as they looked the more likely winners to me.
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I said at the time that not signing Bissouma was a missed opportunity, and last night just proved that. McGinn and Luiz are rubbish both as defensive midfielders and attacking forces. One or the the other would probably be OK next to a Bissouma type and Ramsey.
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Good game of football last night - with regards to Mings / Konsa, it was noticeable in the first half that whenever Mings or Konsa received the ball from Emi (goal keeper) that they were then pressured by James etc..
The once Mings got knocked off the ball with a shoulder charge from 5ft 8 inches James
They were poor, but we don't have anyone better than them at the moment, I would imagine that in the Summer a new spine of the team will be brought in as replacements
It will be interesting to see who goes in the summer, I think there maybe a few surprises in who Gerrard allows to leave.
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I said at the time that not signing Bissouma was a missed opportunity, and last night just proved that. McGinn and Luiz are rubbish both as defensive midfielders and attacking forces. One or the the other would probably be OK next to a Bissouma type and Ramsey.
I know it's not ideal over paying, but given that we may only be borrowing Coutinho for a short period of time, I do wonder if paying £10m too much for Bissouma may have been a sensible decision just to see what we could have achieved this season? That MAY have been the diference between 10-12th and 6-8th. And MAY be the difference between retaining Coutinho and attracting top players and not.
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I thought Doug was completely anonymous last night and that didn't help defensively at all.
Also I'm a huge fan but Konsa has no complaints with his yellows. Absolutely stupid decision making on his part and along with Mings he had a night to forget overall.
But it was brilliant to get back to watching a live game again and boy did we see some magical play at times.
I keep saying Dougie and SJM looked far better when Nakamba did a great job as the DM and helped protect the Centre backs allowing McGinn and Luiz more freedom. It still looks unbalanced in centre midfield without a specialist DM. We again failed to address this in the January window and it's showing now....
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I agree with most of that John.
Sansom should of come on and not Chuck. However it was good game time for the lad and great experience for him.
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What a crazy game, it was like watching kids play FIFA with teams set to all out attack. I can't believe how gung ho we've become, you have Buendia playing through balls to our full backs bombing forward and both Mings and Konsa dribbling into the opposition area. And still doing it at 3-1! Who is left to defend? It's no wonder we get caught on the counter. I know he isn't everyone's favourite player but if we have Nakamba last night we win.
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I thought Doug was completely anonymous last night and that didn't help defensively at all.
Also I'm a huge fan but Konsa has no complaints with his yellows. Absolutely stupid decision making on his part and along with Mings he had a night to forget overall.
But it was brilliant to get back to watching a live game again and boy did we see some magical play at times.
I keep saying Dougie and SJM looked far better when Nakamba did a great job as the DM and helped protect the Centre backs allowing McGinn and Luiz more freedom. It still looks unbalanced in centre midfield without a specialist DM. We again failed to address this in the January window and it's showing now....
Yeah I totally agree and I think Gerrard already knew this. Because we were unable to get the targets we really wanted, I'm assuming the plan was too try and make do until the summer rather than just get a player that can do a job as we already have that player albeit hes currently injured.
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
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When we got the third we needed to just sit back and kill the game until half time but we carried on as before and that goal back gave them momentum for the second half. Gerrard has to take some of the blame for that.
Other than that I agree with John, we played some of the best football of I’ve seen from us in years and Jacob Ramsey I think has exceeded all our expectations. He’s going to be the next one we fret about being poached.
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
It was the 'ole's' starting up in the Holte just before their second that were the portent of doom. I was grimacing and waiting...
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw
Mings was even worse than I remembered. Fucking hell.
Just what I was going to say. He's implicated in all three their goals. Got turned too easily their first. Got beaten in the air by James for their second and although he did well to be on the line for the block it was a timid clearance that gave the ball straight back to Llorente for the third. The Leeds fans singing "Mings is shit" just about sums it up. He's not shit hes a decent player and a great bloke by all accounts but he's getting quite a bad reputation from neutral fans. I think it's time for an upgrade on big Ty.
Unfortunately he has previous for being badly affected by a mistake. The collapse against Real Bilston was largely down to him losing his head. On his day he's immense, but you always fear a clanger is never far away
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Both CB were poor, and this was compounded by McGinn's anonymity - was he actually on the pitch last night? - and Watkins' inability to hold the ball up.
I thought Doug was okay-ish last night; but that's not enough when the FB are playing so high.
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Both CB were poor, and this was compounded by McGinn's anonymity - was he actually on the pitch last night? - and Watkins' inability to hold the ball up.
I thought Doug was okay-ish last night; but that's not enough when the FB are playing so high.
I think the downside of the system we use with the full backs pushing so high was exposed by the way Leeds play. We needed a touch of the pragmatism we showed against Everton once we were in front.
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When we got the third we needed to just sit back and kill the game until half time but we carried on as before and that goal back gave them momentum for the second half. Gerrard has to take some of the blame for that.
Other than that I agree with John, we played some of the best football of I’ve seen from us in years and Jacob Ramsey I think has exceeded all our expectations. He’s going to be the next one we fret about being poached.
I was saying the exact same thing (about Ramsey) to somebody earlier today. There will be interest from other clubs for sure, because he really does have the potential to be world class if he remains on this trajectory.
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Seems to me every time Chuckwmenka comes on it's game over. He should be of been loaned him out to the champ and El Gazi for the bench. As soon as Gerrard subbed the two creative players everyone knew the equalizer was in the post. At least El Gazi makes an impact and can hold it up. Trez could always nick a goal.
sending out Target Trez and Gazi on loan isn't that smart, especially the ones to lower prem rivals. If Newcastle stay up they will be interested in the same players as Villa in the summer, its crucial they get relegated.
It was an exciting game and Couthinio really is brilliant, but Villa only really dominated for 15mins. The scruffy Leeds goal just before half time was the turning point. I saw Gerrards comments that he didn't want Villa to be sucked into Leeds style. Well we were doing just fine in that 15mins our attackers are better than theirs we could of easily made it 6-1 before we decided to hold. I think we should of continued to out Leeds Leeds.
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Seems to me every time Chuckwmenka comes on it's game over. He should be of been loaned him out to the champ and El Gazi for the bench. As soon as Gerrard subbed the two creative players everyone knew the equalizer was in the post. At least El Gazi makes an impact and can hold it up. Trez could always nick a goal.
sending out Target Trez and Gazi on loan isn't that smart, especially the ones to lower prem rivals. If Newcastle stay up they will be interested in the same players as Villa in the summer, its crucial they get relegated.
It was an exciting game and Couthinio really is brilliant, but Villa only really dominated for 15mins. The scruffy Leeds goal just before half time was the turning point. I saw Gerrards comments that he didn't want Villa to be sucked into Leeds style. Well we were doing just fine in that 15mins our attackers are better than theirs we could of easily made it 6-1 before we decided to hold. I think we should of continued to out Leeds Leeds.
He came on with us 2-0 down in the home game before and was a key reason we turned it around
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Only watched the first half, as I knew the final score.. absolute quality, hats off to both sides. Terrrific.
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For the first goal Mings was stuck with two Leeds players and didn't quite get out of trouble.
For the second, he was unfortunate with that jump with Digne (I think) sandwiching James into the perfect spot.
For the third he at least was there in the first place, he just didn't put his boot through the ball,could have done better.
He made clearances off the line, defensive headers, and nearly scored himself. He's a leader and frankly I like him.
I was disappointed last night at how easily Leeds seemed to pass and move in triangles, particularly on the wing, and how James seemed to constantly find space.
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You can see with Leeds what a quality coach with a game plan can do. I’d agree that the media are too quick to wank Bielsa off and blow smoke up his arse but, quite frankly, what he’s managed to do with what essentially is a motley crew of mainly lower league players is brilliant. You put the majority of them in another team and they’d be shite.
Hopefully once Gerrard’ ideas and plans are taken on board we’ll be a lot more consistent in a positive way.
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Having slept on it I think last night was par for the course given the upheaval we have had this season, Leeds Jekyll and Hyde style of play, and the fact that they appear to be a bogey side of late.
Only 15 mins in last night I mused that Doug's time may be up with us but more concerningly, McGinn seems all at sea. The CB's were exposed and made uncharacteristic mistakes, certainly as far as Konsa is concerned. Ahead of Newcastle the midfield needs work. Perhaps dropping McGinn to DM, we have enough going forward to sacrifice him in that role and bringing Sanson in for Doug.
I thought last night the midfield three without the ball completely malfunctioned. But surely Gerrard to get some kind of base in front of a CB partnership that was also having a meltdown he should have put Luiz/McGinn into an orthodox 2 (not McGinn at RCM which grinds my gears...) and Ramsey further ahead. Let Leeds have the wings if needs be.
The fact he didn't change shape at all, made very poor like for like subs and went on to speak eloquently post game about what went wrong....reminded me of his predecessor.
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I thought Ferdinand summed up our problem perfectly last night; Leeds throw so many players forward but we never punished them by making them have to run back to help out and defend. They attack, we win the ball and within seconds we give it back to them. There was no need for the Leeds attackers to track back they just kept their advanced role as the ball kept coming back to them. We fell perfectly into their trap and overall allowed them to dictate the game.
Had we slowed the game down and kept possession their 5 attacking players would have been knackered by half time. That said, two of our goals came from counter attacks and they were both brilliant. Fine lines etc but I believe we played into their hands.
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For the first goal Mings was stuck with two Leeds players and didn't quite get out of trouble.
For the second, he was unfortunate with that jump with Digne (I think) sandwiching James into the perfect spot.
For the third he at least was there in the first place, he just didn't put his boot through the ball,could have done better.
He made clearances off the line, defensive headers, and nearly scored himself. He's a leader and frankly I like him.
I was disappointed last night at how easily Leeds seemed to pass and move in triangles, particularly on the wing, and how James seemed to constantly find space.
You could say we were a bit unlucky with the second and third goals in as much as that both of them came from balls ballooning up off Villa players which could have gone anywhere.
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For the first goal Mings was stuck with two Leeds players and didn't quite get out of trouble.
For the second, he was unfortunate with that jump with Digne (I think) sandwiching James into the perfect spot.
For the third he at least was there in the first place, he just didn't put his boot through the ball,could have done better.
He made clearances off the line, defensive headers, and nearly scored himself. He's a leader and frankly I like him.
I was disappointed last night at how easily Leeds seemed to pass and move in triangles, particularly on the wing, and how James seemed to constantly find space.
You could say we were a bit unlucky with the second and third goals in as much as that both of them came from balls ballooning up off Villa players which could have gone anywhere.
Their second goal was the most annoying one for me. We had Mings and Emi right there and they have got to deal with it whether it loops or not. They wasn't trying to stop Andy Carroll or Big Dunc it was 5ft 8in Dan James. No excuses. That goal at that moment in the game changed everything. We'd had a sizzling 20 minute spell and had that goal not been scored when it was they would have gone into their dressing deflated and very rattled. It was a game changing moment that was entirely preventable.
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As I said elsewhere, the trouble with defending the second goal is that if he'd gone into their player, he's on the floor and these days it's a likely penalty.
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the media are too quick to wank Bielsa off and blow smoke up his arse
It'd take some doing, but it's quite an image.
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Leeds in all fairness are a great side for neutrals to watch. At best they're very good in attack and on the counter (and they're getting back to form on that front now), and on the other side of it, terrible defensively. Makes for a great spectacle. There was a danger before we equalised that they could have really done a number on us like last season where we made Bamford look like Batisfuckingtuta.
Enjoyable game. Great to watch, but equally frustrating because of the nature of their goals. We shot ourselves in the foot. The first in fairness left James with a lot to do, cracking finish. He either looks brilliant, or he looks like a headless chicken. Last night was brilliant.
Thought we were very good going forward from the equaliser to Coutinho going off. Without Beundia and Phil we lost the guile we had before. I'd be inclined to give Ings a start next time out. Waktins has had a poor run of games and he's not effective working the channels and doing the things we know Ings can't. But, Ings might well benefit from the space and vision our flair players provide, and at least you know Ings is more likely to put a chance away. I also think he could have a field day getting at Newcastle's CH's.
I dunno if anyone else thought this, but our pitch seemed appalling last night? How many players had their standing foot go? I all but shat myself watching Coutinho, Cash and Digne hobbling about after falling unchallenged. 1-2 Leeds players had it too. It certainly didn't look like a pitch that had 2 weeks off and this has historically been a point of pride for the club. I might be overthinking this. It just has a touch of the school pitch about it last night.
The Ramsey and Phil double act looks mouth watering too.
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On a different note I thought the atmosphere at the game was quite subdued last night. Almost like the team I didn't think we really got going.
There were spells around the time of our goals when the singing picked up but generally it felt flat to me.
The first 15 minutes of the second half was so quiet it felt like a vigil.
With it being a night match and against Leeds I thought it'd be lively throughout the game.
Maybe there's still some trepidation about us that's going to take some time to get out of our systems?
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I dunno if anyone else thought this, but our pitch seemed appalling last night? How many players had their standing foot go? I all but shat myself watching Coutinho, Cash and Digne hobbling about after falling unchallenged. 1-2 Leeds players had it too. It certainly didn't look like a pitch that had 2 weeks off and this has historically been a point of pride for the club. I might be overthinking this. It just has a touch of the school pitch about it last night.
You're not alone. I was surprised to see how long the studs were in the players' boots, not sure if it was Buendia's or SJM's but I've not seen studs like that since I was a nipper. It can't be easy on the ankles and knees when you make a sharp turn.
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Seems to me every time Chuckwmenka comes on it's game over. He should be of been loaned him out to the champ and El Gazi for the bench. As soon as Gerrard subbed the two creative players everyone knew the equalizer was in the post. At least El Gazi makes an impact and can hold it up. Trez could always nick a goal.
sending out Target Trez and Gazi on loan isn't that smart, especially the ones to lower prem rivals. If Newcastle stay up they will be interested in the same players as Villa in the summer, its crucial they get relegated.
It was an exciting game and Couthinio really is brilliant, but Villa only really dominated for 15mins. The scruffy Leeds goal just before half time was the turning point. I saw Gerrards comments that he didn't want Villa to be sucked into Leeds style. Well we were doing just fine in that 15mins our attackers are better than theirs we could of easily made it 6-1 before we decided to hold. I think we should of continued to out Leeds Leeds.
I get the impression that Chucky's pushed for being part of the first team squad, and so we've not had much option - if we want to keep him - but to give him a bit more involvement in that area. I don't think the thing is getting maximum impact out of him at the moment anyway - like JJ it's a case of letting him dip his toe in the water, and hopefully seeing him flourish next season, or even the season after that.
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Their second goal was the most annoying one for me. We had Mings and Emi right there and they have got to deal with it whether it loops or not. They wasn't trying to stop Andy Carroll or Big Dunc it was 5ft 8in Dan James. No excuses. That goal at that moment in the game changed everything. We'd had a sizzling 20 minute spell and had that goal not been scored when it was they would have gone into their dressing deflated and very rattled. It was a game changing moment that was entirely preventable.
Yes, it's annoying, but just as relevant as a player's height is the trajectory of the ball, and response time. Unfortunately, James was in just the right place, and Mings and Emi weren't. If the ball hadn't looped upwards, Mings would have been well placed to block the shot.
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Their second goal was the most annoying one for me. We had Mings and Emi right there and they have got to deal with it whether it loops or not. They wasn't trying to stop Andy Carroll or Big Dunc it was 5ft 8in Dan James. No excuses. That goal at that moment in the game changed everything. We'd had a sizzling 20 minute spell and had that goal not been scored when it was they would have gone into their dressing deflated and very rattled. It was a game changing moment that was entirely preventable.
Yes, it's annoying, but just as relevant as a player's height is the trajectory of the ball, and response time. Unfortunately, James was in just the right place, and Mings and Emi weren't. If the ball hadn't looped upwards, Mings would have been well placed to block the shot.
James said after the game that he didn't know much about it, it just landed on his head and went in.
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Their second goal was the most annoying one for me. We had Mings and Emi right there and they have got to deal with it whether it loops or not. They wasn't trying to stop Andy Carroll or Big Dunc it was 5ft 8in Dan James. No excuses. That goal at that moment in the game changed everything. We'd had a sizzling 20 minute spell and had that goal not been scored when it was they would have gone into their dressing deflated and very rattled. It was a game changing moment that was entirely preventable.
Yes, it's annoying, but just as relevant as a player's height is the trajectory of the ball, and response time. Unfortunately, James was in just the right place, and Mings and Emi weren't. If the ball hadn't looped upwards, Mings would have been well placed to block the shot.
James said after the game that he didn't know much about it, it just landed on his head and went in.
That's all we want hear. I was already screwing about it now I'm fuming 😤
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Having slept on it I think last night was par for the course given the upheaval we have had this season, Leeds Jekyll and Hyde style of play, and the fact that they appear to be a bogey side of late.
Only 15 mins in last night I mused that Doug's time may be up with us but more concerningly, McGinn seems all at sea. The CB's were exposed and made uncharacteristic mistakes, certainly as far as Konsa is concerned. Ahead of Newcastle the midfield needs work. Perhaps dropping McGinn to DM, we have enough going forward to sacrifice him in that role and bringing Sanson in for Doug.
I thought last night the midfield three without the ball completely malfunctioned. But surely Gerrard to get some kind of base in front of a CB partnership that was also having a meltdown he should have put Luiz/McGinn into an orthodox 2 (not McGinn at RCM which grinds my gears...) and Ramsey further ahead. Let Leeds have the wings if needs be.
The fact he didn't change shape at all, made very poor like for like subs and went on to speak eloquently post game about what went wrong....reminded me of his predecessor.
We did change shape when Young came on.
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Seems to me every time Chuckwmenka comes on it's game over. He should be of been loaned him out to the champ and El Gazi for the bench. As soon as Gerrard subbed the two creative players everyone knew the equalizer was in the post. At least El Gazi makes an impact and can hold it up. Trez could always nick a goal.
sending out Target Trez and Gazi on loan isn't that smart, especially the ones to lower prem rivals. If Newcastle stay up they will be interested in the same players as Villa in the summer, its crucial they get relegated.
It was an exciting game and Couthinio really is brilliant, but Villa only really dominated for 15mins. The scruffy Leeds goal just before half time was the turning point. I saw Gerrards comments that he didn't want Villa to be sucked into Leeds style. Well we were doing just fine in that 15mins our attackers are better than theirs we could of easily made it 6-1 before we decided to hold. I think we should of continued to out Leeds Leeds.
I get the impression that Chucky's pushed for being part of the first team squad, and so we've not had much option - if we want to keep him - but to give him a bit more involvement in that area. I don't think the thing is getting maximum impact out of him at the moment anyway - like JJ it's a case of letting him dip his toe in the water, and hopefully seeing him flourish next season, or even the season after that.
Involvement in the squad is one thing, first sub on against decent teams is another. It's a very poor decision from Gerrard to have Chucky as first sub on in the last two games. He isn't remotely ready for that role/responsibility. Ramsey was showing a lot more last season when coming on as a sub.
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He is about a second too slow in his decision making at the moment.
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I've said before that the lad looks okay going forward but if he has to track back his lack of pace is worrying. More of a concern is Watkins and Ings neither of whom I believe fit into our game plan, at the moment it's almost like playing with ten men. We have to look at the positives though, Buendia is becoming the player we hoped for and Coutino and Ramsey are obviously tuned in to each other giving us a couple of goals that were pure class.
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Chuk helped change the game against United and by all accounts did well in the two friendlies last week. With Bailey and Traore out it was a fair call to bring him on. He made some mistakes but also on the occasions he tried to drive into the box to make something happen he didn’t get the return passes needed. It’s an investment in the future, hopefully we will be richly rewarded in years to come.
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Anyone else concerned about the size of Martinez yet how poor he seems to be on crosses into the box. Anything inside the 6 yard box has to be the goalkeepers - absolute basics
I cant work out from your post in your referring to last night or in general. If its last night you may have a point, but Leeds did put some excellent crosses in the box.
However, it does read like your talking about Martinez’s ability on crosses in general. If thats your point its wrong, he’s probably the best Villa keeper I've seen on crosses.
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
Yeah.
"Leeds are falling apart again" tossed a hostage to fortune as well.
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
Yeah.
"Leeds are falling apart again" tossed a hostage to fortune as well.
Shame the same couldn’t be said about Leeds fans singing “Tyrone Mings is fucking shit.”
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
Yeah.
"Leeds are falling apart again" tossed a hostage to fortune as well.
Whenever we Ole, I recall being 4-1 up against Leicester at home.....
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I knew we were fucking that up as soon as we started to ollay the passes at 3-1 up.
I dread us singing "It's all gone quiet over there" - it only ever ends one way!
Yeah.
"Leeds are falling apart again" tossed a hostage to fortune as well.
Shame the same couldn’t be said about Leeds fans singing “Tyrone Mings is fucking shit.”
The number of times you've quoted that, sounds like you were only too happy to join in with them ;)
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A few points to make on the comments in this thread.
1. Leeds were good. They were good against the Hammers and they were good against us - a great improvement on earlier in the season, even without key players; so it's not a case of why can't we beat a team so low in the table.
2. Leeds scored one quality goal (the first) - the other two were the result of fortuitous bounces, deflections or clearances. Our goals were all absolute class (I know they all count the same).
3. For all the criticism on here of Mings, he cleared brilliantly off the line, cleared more than one dangerous shot over our bar, had a couple of very good chances to score himself. and showed good ability in the attacking third (yes I know he's a defender). He was a bit stranded in the move leading to the first goal, can't be blamed for their second which was very lucky/unlucky and was also unlucky his clearance for their third went straight to a Leeds player.
4. Having watched MOTD, an interesting point was made by Dion Dublin, where he logically singled out Coutinho and Ramsey but also the way Ollie was key to their success, with runs which created the space for the first two to work in. Worth a mention as Ollie has been getting a lot of stick on here.
Just a few of my thoughts to respond to some of the scathing comments about our performance in general and some of our players in particular.
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What time do we get the next pre match
Is it midday that we get a Newcastle thread ?
Sunday 2pm kick off.
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Re 4, did Watkins mean to do that - drag defenders with him to leave the space for JJ? I think he was just after the pass, himself, tbh. Looked jealous when the goal went in, too.
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A few points to make on the comments in this thread.
1. Leeds were good. They were good against the Hammers and they were good against us - a great improvement on earlier in the season, even without key players; so it's not a case of why can't we beat a team so low in the table.
2. Leeds scored one quality goal (the first) - the other two were the result of fortuitous bounces, deflections or clearances. Our goals were all absolute class (I know they all count the same).
3. For all the criticism on here of Mings, he cleared brilliantly off the line, cleared more than one dangerous shot over our bar, had a couple of very good chances to score himself. and showed good ability in the attacking third (yes I know he's a defender). He was a bit stranded in the move leading to the first goal, can't be blamed for their second which was very lucky/unlucky and was also unlucky his clearance for their third went straight to a Leeds player.
4. Having watched MOTD, an interesting point was made by Dion Dublin, where he logically singled out Coutinho and Ramsey but also the way Ollie was key to their success, with runs which created the space for the first two to work in. Worth a mention as Ollie has been getting a lot of stick on here.
Just a few of my thoughts to respond to some of the scathing comments about our performance in general and some of our players in particular.
Agree with all of that martyn and thanks for saving me the trouble.
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4. Having watched MOTD, an interesting point was made by Dion Dublin, where he logically singled out Coutinho and Ramsey but also the way Ollie was key to their success, with runs which created the space for the first two to work in. Worth a mention as Ollie has been getting a lot of stick on here.
Just a few of my thoughts to respond to some of the scathing comments about our performance in general and some of our players in particular.
I've mentioned elsewhere; the same happened to Morelos (I think that's his name) at Rangers when they adopted the new system. I read it somewhere when Gerrard joined.
His personal goals dropped, but more were scored by the two "10s" and the team overall.
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A few points to make on the comments in this thread.
1. Leeds were good. They were good against the Hammers and they were good against us - a great improvement on earlier in the season, even without key players; so it's not a case of why can't we beat a team so low in the table.
2. Leeds scored one quality goal (the first) - the other two were the result of fortuitous bounces, deflections or clearances. Our goals were all absolute class (I know they all count the same).
3. For all the criticism on here of Mings, he cleared brilliantly off the line, cleared more than one dangerous shot over our bar, had a couple of very good chances to score himself. and showed good ability in the attacking third (yes I know he's a defender). He was a bit stranded in the move leading to the first goal, can't be blamed for their second which was very lucky/unlucky and was also unlucky his clearance for their third went straight to a Leeds player.
4. Having watched MOTD, an interesting point was made by Dion Dublin, where he logically singled out Coutinho and Ramsey but also the way Ollie was key to their success, with runs which created the space for the first two to work in. Worth a mention as Ollie has been getting a lot of stick on here.
Just a few of my thoughts to respond to some of the scathing comments about our performance in general and some of our players in particular.
Agree with all of that martyn and thanks for saving me the trouble.
Far too much sense been posted now. We all know this is Martin O’Neill mk11
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Re 4, did Watkins mean to do that - drag defenders with him to leave the space for JJ? I think he was just after the pass, himself, tbh. Looked jealous when the goal went in, too.
It's academic really, for our third goal he made a good run. He could either recieve the ball or open space. In that instance it opened space brilliantly. The first two goals, I can't see his involvement all, other than existing on the pitch which is not a tricky skill.
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Re 4, did Watkins mean to do that - drag defenders with him to leave the space for JJ? I think he was just after the pass, himself, tbh. Looked jealous when the goal went in, too.
It's academic really, for our third goal he made a good run. He could either recieve the ball or open space. In that instance it opened space brilliantly. The first two goals, I can't see his involvement all, other than existing on the pitch which is not a tricky skill.
Exactly, it was a good run. The 'easy' or 'selfish' run is the straight one towards goal, to wait for a perfectly-paced ball to be played in front of you in the direction of the goal and chase it. Diagonal runs are much more difficult to mark (so you might find yourself with a bit more space) but they also create space for others. I have no doubt he started that run hoping for the ball to be played to him, but a lazier forward doesn't make that run hoping for an easier chance for himself (but relies on a much more difficult pass from midfield).
I think it bodes really well for us that when Phil gets the ball in a more central midfield position, Watkins and JJ are both on their bikes immediately, giving good options in anticipation they'll be found. And we've the pace of Bailey to introduce as well, which will be a brilliant option for someone who can pass like Phil.
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A few points to make on the comments in this thread.
1. Leeds were good. They were good against the Hammers and they were good against us - a great improvement on earlier in the season, even without key players; so it's not a case of why can't we beat a team so low in the table.
2. Leeds scored one quality goal (the first) - the other two were the result of fortuitous bounces, deflections or clearances. Our goals were all absolute class (I know they all count the same).
3. For all the criticism on here of Mings, he cleared brilliantly off the line, cleared more than one dangerous shot over our bar, had a couple of very good chances to score himself. and showed good ability in the attacking third (yes I know he's a defender). He was a bit stranded in the move leading to the first goal, can't be blamed for their second which was very lucky/unlucky and was also unlucky his clearance for their third went straight to a Leeds player.
4. Having watched MOTD, an interesting point was made by Dion Dublin, where he logically singled out Coutinho and Ramsey but also the way Ollie was key to their success, with runs which created the space for the first two to work in. Worth a mention as Ollie has been getting a lot of stick on here.
Just a few of my thoughts to respond to some of the scathing comments about our performance in general and some of our players in particular.
Well said Martyn - Quality post.
I think Ollie is suffering a touch of 'difficult second album' syndrome in some ways but I'm afraid some posters on here won't be happy until they've hounded him out of the club.
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How are posters on here going to hound him out of the club?
Are you suggesting there are a bunch of Beagle owning fans that will arrange a meet at Bodymoor Heath?
Tally ho