Aston Villa 3-3 Leeds United Post Match Thread

[cannock villa]

Jesus Christ, the state of some of the comments on here. Just back from the game, and we looked like what we are - a team that is still getting to grips with a new way of playing. The defence was a mess at times, and there was a clear gap in front of them that a proper DM would fill. But on the other hand, some of the football going forward through Coutinho, EMI and JJ was an absolute joy - give it time and that will be unstoppable.

And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.

Finally, the criticism of the manager for the subs. Both Buendia and Coutinho picked up knocks as far as I could see. Given they have also been halfway round the world playing matches for the last two weeks it was probably a good idea to rest them if there was a doubt - I’d rather see both playing the majority of our remaining games than be screwed for the rest of the season.

What the hell you doing giving an honest assessment here. Don't you know you have to give the standard 'Mings is shite'

[LukeJames]

And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.

Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.

[AV82EC]

An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.

I thought the referee was particularly poor.

[LeeB]

And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.

Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.

Sorry mate, that's bollocks. Konsa was terrible, and the two midfielders in front of them were invisible.

I also thought Martinez should have claimed the cross that led to the equaliser, didn't seem to be anybody in his way.

[Beard82]

Feel more positive about it after a nights sleep.  Some great football going forward, not sure whats happened to the defense we had last season. 

Think without a DM, we will struggle with SG formation as it invites too much pressure on the CB - also neither are great with the ball at the feet unless its a surging run.  Think we should have looked to get in one on loan if we couldnt get our right target.  The fact that we have failed to strengthen in that area in the last 3 windows is an area of concern - particularly when we seem to have made strangely low offers for targets. 

Still struggling with what to make of it all, we say about replacing McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Mings - but if they leave it will all be to go to clubs that finished higher in the league. 

It is an exciting and frustrating journey at the moment - I would really like us to rally in the rest of the season and finish 9th.  I dont think any higher is realistic from that point, but I think we need to do some of our talking on the pitch to be able to attract better prospects in the summer. 

As a few people have noted there is a lot of negativity on this forum, and I'm guilty of that, but I do think there is a legitimatacy in some of it.  I think that is caused by the fact we are seeing good players regress slightly, and after a positive start things like the midfield have gone back to not working and we're not winning games.

Our stated aim is year on year improvement, and it by no means certain we will do that, despite having what appears to be a much more balanced squad. 

Clearly at the momement, we need to give it time, and at least its fun.  I just feel we have the best owners in the league, and I don't want us to waste them.

[The Edge]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12537782/aston-villa-and-leeds-united-share-six-goals-in-villa-park-draw

Mings was even worse than I remembered. Fucking hell.

Just what I was going to say. He's implicated in all three their goals. Got turned too easily their first. Got beaten in the air by James for their second and although he did well to be on the line for the block it was a timid clearance that gave the ball straight back to Llorente for the third. The Leeds fans singing "Mings is shit" just about sums it up. He's not shit hes a decent player and a great bloke by all accounts but he's getting quite a bad reputation from neutral fans. I think it's time for an upgrade on big Ty.

[AV82EC]

And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.

Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.

Sorry mate, that's bollocks. Konsa was terrible, and the two midfielders in front of them were invisible.

I also thought Martinez should have claimed the cross that led to the equaliser, didn't seem to be anybody in his way.

I agree with LeeB.

[PaulWinch again]

As do I. I thought Konsa had as poor a game as Mings. Emi was poor, as were McGinn and Doug.

[Percy McCarthy]

Mings is fighting a lone battle when Konsa is off his game. Look at our shape - Cash and Digne incredibly high, with the only protection afforded to our centre-halves coming from Ramsay, JM and Doug, who all have deeper starting positions than the full backs. Ramsay gets a pass because of what he does going forwards, but as I might have said in the transfer thread, I’d gladly sell the other two first choice midfielders and add whatever balance it takes to replace them with Ward-Prowse and Bissouma (which wouldn’t actually be that much if figures being bandied around are true).

[nick harper]

An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.

I thought the referee was particularly poor.

It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.

We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.

[john e]

Exhilarating and frustrating in equal measure

we are watching some really good football now chaps, exciting players who have the ability to get us out of our seats and blow our minds, after the drizzle and shit we’ve had to endure over the last decade Villa Park is a great place to be again, although anything can happen at any time good or bad

my lad is nearly 14 now, he had no interest in football at all until Benteke made him fall in love with the game, but the years to follow were some of the worst ever as a Villa supporter
Now he’s watching Coutinho, Ramsey, Buendia, McGinn, Martinez players he will remember for the rest of his life just as I look back at Gray, Shaw, Little, McGrath and Platt

yes we made too many mistakes last night especially in defence
Our expectations and playing standards are higher than they have been for the last 10 years and i’ve always advocated we aim As high as possible and not just settle for mediocre

So I was pissed off that we let a two-goal lead go but it’s still a great time to be a Villa fan



 

[Smithy]

An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.

I thought the referee was particularly poor.

It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.

We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.

It's a small thing, in what was overall a disappointing result albeit with flashes that were really good, but I was very happy to see a couple of Leeds players down with creamp near the end.  The intensity they play at, and the supposed fitness levels they have, it showed we really matched them in effort. I suspect they haven't worked that hard in quite a while.

[Footy-Vill]

And also, why is Mings getting so much stick? Konsa was more than culpable on a number of occasions and was stupid getting himself sent off how he did. Mings made the clearance off the line and the header away before the third goal, at times it seemed like he was doing the job of both centre halves so was probably entitled to the mistake on their third.

Because he was fucking shit and at fault for all 3 goals. Konsa was poor aswell but Mings was on a whole different level altogether.

What about Mings carrying ball forward , his headers where he nearly scored and his runs with the ball and winning some booming headers and thunderous challenges and intercepting that was hardly f×××ing poor was it . Far from it in fact notary central defenders carry the ball and fight so noticeable as him yesterday and the time he mayraded forwarded on the left wing and provided a telling pull back was sheer quality.
Oh and he cleared balls of the line and our of our box. Let's gave a fair nd balanced assessment shall we.

[Beard82]

Exhilarating and frustrating in equal measure

we are watching some really good football now chaps, exciting players who have the ability to get us out of our seats and blow our minds, after the drizzle and shit we’ve had to endure over the last decade Villa Park is a great place to be again, although anything can happen at any time good or bad

my lad is nearly 14 now, he had no interest in football at all until Benteke made him fall in love with the game, but the years to follow were some of the worst ever as a Villa supporter
Now he’s watching Coutinho, Ramsey, Buendia, McGinn, Martinez players he will remember for the rest of his life just as I look back at Gray, Shaw, Little, McGrath and Platt

yes we made too many mistakes last night especially in defence
Our expectations and playing standards are higher than they have been for the last 10 years and i’ve always advocated we aim As high as possible and not just settle for mediocre

So I was pissed off that we let a two-goal lead go but it’s still a great time to be a Villa fan

Yeah - thats a good summary and was Pat's

[Footy-Vill]

An absolute rollercoaster of a game. Thought we didn’t get to grips with their extremely brave 4-1-5 formation at all and they caused us problems all night through continual overloads on our fullbacks and a very high press. I thought our 4-3-3 looked extremely static and inflexible without the ball. The defence to a man had an absolute shocker but the lack of protection from the three in front was really bad with Luiz and McGinn particularly poor. On the positive side for that 20 minute spell we seemed to find a way to beat the press and tore them to pieces. I’d normally do individual scores but our display as a defensive unit without the ball was appalling and that’s on the team and Gerrard. Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde performance but some encouraging signs.

I thought the referee was particularly poor.

It’s a really tough gig for McGinn and Ramsey to provide protection out wide and more narrowly alongside Luiz. Leeds wide players hug the touch line and their full backs bomb forward. It’s no wonder we looked exposed through the middle at times. The gaps were enormous.

We went toe to toe with them in the first half but I don’t think there is a team in the league that play at Leeds pace and intensity when they are on it. They do like playing at VP and poor Tyrone, who was given the run around by Bamford last year, must hate this fixture.

It's a small thing, in what was overall a disappointing result albeit with flashes that were really good, but I was very happy to see a couple of Leeds players down with creamp near the end.  The intensity they play at, and the supposed fitness levels they have, it showed we really matched them in effort. I suspect they haven't worked that hard in quite a while.

They hadn't played for 16 days would be the reason to my eyes.
But then they are difficult to match.
Dan James was giving nightmares due to his pace and I don’t think we prepared well enough for that. They targeted the space and did what they do I thought once we engaged in their style of play we matched them and outscored them. We should have continued in this vein but it scared Gerrard principles of controlling the football game

We should have been prepared to be out of control and possession and quick to counter and transition make the game a one off we did that first half once we came to terms but second half was a forgettable experience and Leeds only looked like winning.

Its a good lesson for Gerrard and the team though and maybe sometimes getting away from the narrow 4-3-3 has to be done in future matches.
Have to be flexible rather than predictable.
The line up now is setting itself with the first choice 11 and that shouldn't be the case for the quality and variation on our squad. I don't think it helped loaning out far too many players who would have provided a real impact if involved yesterday.