Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 05:23:38 PM
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Merry Christmas ya filthy animals.
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Beginning to think we weren’t going to bother with this
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what now..?
Southampton looked a team that was motivated, and has Chelsea next.
We can't even muster up the gumption to come out of HT with some urgency, so we certainly don't look up for a good ole' relegation scrap.
Its frustrating to watch players out of position in a failing formation week in week out.
I don't know where we go from here, tbh. I just hope we can find a way to scrape some points together and not have a shit December for once.
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Their heads have dropped, thats unnaceptable.
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Their heads have dropped, thats unnaceptable.
One things for sure, we miss Mings’ leadership on the pitch. Without him and McGinn we're a bunch of bottling no marks.
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Yes,there were times I'm sure you knew,
When I bit off more than I could chew.
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I left as soon as the 3rd went in.
From the 1st minute you could see there was no urgency no fire, the belief has gone.
Smith is throwing out the same players in the same positions in the same system week after week and hoping magically it will change. Exactly what he did last season during the slump. Absolutely no imagination or ambition to try something different to try get us out of this.
We looked liked a team that was going down today.
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Deano has a history of bad result periods but usually comes through them. Will he get the chance at VP. Who knows an injection of new blood in the transfer window could be the tonic needed
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Their heads have dropped, thats unnaceptable.
One things for sure, we miss Mings’ leadership on the pitch. Without him and McGinn we're a bunch of bottling no marks.
Both of them were in poor form in recent games, McGinn particularly. The hiding Leicester gave us seems to have shell shocked players and management. Complete lack of character being shown on the pitch and sideline.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
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Frankly, it sounded like like we deserved everything we got. Sod the contract extension: we need a new manager in to sort this otherwise inevitable & rapid return to the Championship. Dreadful.
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We have 10 players on the pitch that wait for Grealish to do something. To allow this to happen is first and foremost Dean's fault. We're not going to start winning again until this mentality changes. We bought a load of players in the summer that had potential and were to be developed. All I'm seeing are passengers.
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I don’t think the owners will trust Dean with the transfer window budget.
Sad to say but I don’t think I do either.
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Not good enough. It was obvious after 10 mins. Negating your best player will get you the sack.
What a shame.
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Ings was the best player on the pitch. Our defence was utterly appalling.
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If we had Bruce on the sidelines for the last few games the cabbages would be at the ready , Smith deserves credit for getting us up and he one of us but whats being served up currently is dire. I can not belive a few games after Leicester took us apart with a front 2 we allowed the same to happen again.
Players are not blameless I do think its not a lack of effort more some of them in a top league for the first time are struggling with confidence after so many defeats.In general seems a lot of unease with a good few of them.AEG and Trez both useless today , Wes battled hard but service to him is shocking and he is surrounded by defenders , Kodjia came on played off him and found space and we looked better.
Grealish teams just get tight to him 2-3 players near him all the time and today at times he held on to the ball too long tough not helped when the movement around him is so poor.
We concede to many and the striker doesn't score but I still think the MF being unable to control games , being constantly changed personal wise is actually the biggest issue.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
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Happy f**king Christmas Villa. You do this to me every f**king year. Cheers.
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I don’t think the owners will trust Dean with the transfer window budget.
Sad to say but I don’t think I do either.
Not sure Dean has any say anyway
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In the PL you need players with technique, pace and fitness. None of our summer signings seem to have any pace, and the whole team has looked unfit for weeks, as well as lacking in both technique and confidence. A bunch of duds. It's pretty desperate if people are crying out for the utterly dreadful Trezeguet and the underwhelming Kodija to come on and change things for the better. Pitarch and Smith must be held responsible for those shortcomings.
And tactically Smith seems to have a mediocre plan A and nothing else.
Anything less than 6 points from Norwich and Watford and I think Smith will have fully demonstrated he's out of his depth and will have to go if we're to have any chance of salvaging the season. Pitarch too. I'm not sure they should be given the chance to sign more slow-motion lightweights who are shagged after 65 minutes and couldn't hit the earth from space.
Once the crowd turns, Smith's toast and it seems to be heading that way.
Happy fucking Christmas again from Villa.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
Oh give over.
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Playing a high line against 2 pacey strikers in Vardy and Iheanacho was fucking amateurish preperation.
Not learning a single thing from that experience and proceeding to play a high line again against 2 pacey strikers again is bastard negligent.
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Fucking rubbish, from top to bottom, front to back and side to side.
I’m not sure if the biggest issue is that we have no fight, no quality or no experience. Probably all 3.
And again, for the fuck know how many time this season, conceding within 5 mins of the restart.
Fuck it all to hell.
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Woeful from everybody!
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Playing a high line against 2 pacey strikers in Vardy and Iheanacho was fucking amateurish preperation.
Not learning a single thing from that experience and proceeding to play a high line again against 2 pacey strikers again is bastard negligent.
That second goal was like something you would see in a pub league Sunday morning game. Actually it isn't as the hungover centre back would have taken the forward down once in trouble. Engels couldn't even get that close.
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In the PL you need players with technique, pace and fitness. None of our summer signings seem to have any pace
AEG and trez have pace, but are too inconsistent,
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In the PL you need players with technique, pace and fitness. None of our summer signings seem to have any pace
AEG and trez have pace, but are too inconsistent,
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
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Premier League experience needed desperately.
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I don’t think the owners will trust Dean with the transfer window budget.
Sad to say but I don’t think I do either.
Doesn't Pitarch own it? Whoever scouted and signed Wesley needs sacking! Could have got Maupay for less.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
Big Sam....I'd rather have Frankie goes to Hollywood in charge.
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Soft goals, an early injury, misplaced passes, players constantly caught out of position, I could go on. It astounds me how we’ve managed to become progressively worse by every week, I bet everyone else can’t wait to play us. I just hope that was rock bottom, because if not then we are 100% going down.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
Big Sam....I'd rather have Frankie goes to Hollywood in charge.
Relax, not going to happen
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Can't expect to pick up points if you only play well for 10-15 minutes late in the second half. The rest of the match we were diabolical.
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Dreadful
As I said in the match thread this team with these tactics is going down.
No pace, no passion and quite a bit of missing skill
Southampton played us off the park
Redmond looked like Messi.
I hope Dean can turn the next two games around, if not we need a plan B
However, I decided today that there is a big world out there and after a lifetime of planning around, who ,what,where and when the Villa are playing Maybe I need to be a bit more passive in my support and a bit more active in other pursuits.
Groundhog day is maybe too much to continue enduring.
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This has been coming.
Same players same formation same tactics same result.
Unless something changes we are down.
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Can't expect to pick up points if you only play well for 10-15 minutes late in the second half. The rest of the match we were diabolical.
Jack's goal after 75 minutes was our 3rd shot on target.
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Happy f**king Christmas Villa. You do this to me every f**king year. Cheers.
Christmas just wouldn't be Christmas without Villa ruining it. It's a tradition up there with the Queen's speech and repeats of the Father Ted episode where they get stuck in the Lingerie department.
Apologies in advance for using the N word, but we just never seem to be able to change the narrative. Doesn't matter the owner, manager, players, it's always the fucking same.
Maybe we should accept we're already down. I recall the quote from Lt. Speirs from Band of Brothers (and real life): The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function
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From the first minute today Southampton pressed us all over the pitch and we couldn’t cope. So many players we’re shit, but El Ghazi looked lost, Luiz didn’t turn up to play until last 15 mins then looked ok. Wesley huffed and puffed and at least showed that he cared, but never looks like scoring.
Smith has to stop playing grealish on the left, he’s completely wasted out there.
I like Smith a lot and all this talk on Big Sam and the like is just nonsense or at least it should be. However he does need to show some tactical nouse. From the sound of his interview on WM earlier, McGinns injury is a bad one, so he could be forced into a tactical switch around.
Can’t say I’m looking forwards to the Norwich game 🥺
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
Yikes
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Dreadful
As I said in the match thread this team with these tactics is going down.
No pace, no passion and quite a bit of missing skill
Southampton played us off the park
Redmond looked like Messi.
I hope Dean can turn the next two games around, if not we need a plan B
However, I decided today that there is a big world out there and after a lifetime of planning around, who ,what,where and when the Villa are playing Maybe I need to be a bit more passive in my support and a bit more active in other pursuits.
Groundhog day is maybe too much to continue enduring.
With you on that one. Surely more important things in life.
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Christ we've become slow, predictable and so easy to defend against. Leicester was the first time our heads dropped, Sheff United was the first time we looked like a relegation side, today was the first time we looked like we didn't know how to get out of this mess.
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Happy f**king Christmas Villa. You do this to me every f**king year. Cheers.
Christmas just wouldn't be Christmas without Villa ruining it. It's a tradition up there with the Queen's speech and repeats of the Father Ted episode where they get stuck in the Lingerie department.
Apologies in advance for using the N word, but we just never seem to be able to change the narrative. Doesn't matter the owner, manager, players, it's always the fucking same.
Maybe we should accept we're already down. I recall the quote from Lt. Speirs from Band of Brothers (and real life): The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function
Ha ha. I always loved that line too.
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This has been coming.
Same players same formation same tactics same result.
Unless something changes we are down.
Also, if we're losing at HT, don't expect any proactive changes during it. Changes only happen after the opposition have further increased their tally and the game is pretty much over.
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That was dreadful. Played like a bunch of strangers, and were awful defensively. I never want to see Douglas Luiz in a Villa shirt again - he’s appalling and doesn’t seem to be bothered. Wesley is more likeable but comically inept at times. Guilbert had a horror show but I’d let that go as he’s had a good season. Trezeguet is only interested in scoring. Two free-kicks wasted and just heads for goal like the kid at school we all played with, albeit with more ability. Anwar was anonymous. Engels looks poor without the Emperor alongside him
Positives: only three minor ones I can see: Jack’s goal shows he hasn’t lost the magic. Kodjia wasn’t too bad and thought Nakamba, despite an error for 3-0, played with more heart than the rest.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
Don't ever say this again.
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Well that was shocking.Pub manager managing a pub team plus Grealish - and not playing him in the position where he can inflict most damage. Sad to say but I think Deano is massively out of his depth. Losing McGinn early was a blow - but to bring on another defensive midfielder in a game we simply had to win was negative and just wrong. Hourihane was totally anonymous in the first half and should have been replaced by Kodjia at half time, not when we'd just gone 3-0 down, and persisting with Wesley has been aired well elsewhere. And the most worrying thing about today's game was that - not for the first time this season - the opposition wanted it more than we did.
Because Deano stubbornly sticks to the same system teams know exactly how we are going to set up and how to negate us. He has no plan B, makes either the wrong substitutions or makes them too late, and persists with players who simply aren't delivering on the pitch. I gave him leeway during the run of 'hard' fixtures but that meant we had to win the games which would keep us up - like Southampton at home. He's failing, and if he doesn't change things sharpish he's going to take us back down. Unless Edens and Sawiris decide sooner rather than later that being a Villa fan doesn't get much mileage if the results aren't right.
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We keep looking at the problems we have up front but Smith has always had issues making his teams hard to beat. When you’re in a rut, that’s the first thing you need to do.
It will cost him his job as I just don’t see this team keeping a clean sheet.
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Well that was shocking.Pub manager managing a pub team plus Grealish - and not playing him in the position where he can inflict most damage. Sad to say but I think Deano is massively out of his depth. Losing McGinn early was a blow - but to bring on another defensive midfielder in a game we simply had to win was negative and just wrong. Hourihane was totally anonymous in the first half and should have been replaced by Kodjia at half time, not when we'd just gone 3-0 down, and persisting with Wesley has been aired well elsewhere. And the most worrying thing about today's game was that - not for the first time this season - the opposition wanted it more than we did.
Because Deano stubbornly sticks to the same system teams know exactly how we are going to set up and how to negate us. He has no plan B, makes either the wrong substitutions or makes them too late, and persists with players who simply aren't delivering on the pitch. I gave him leeway during the run of 'hard' fixtures but that meant we had to win the games which would keep us up - like Southampton at home. He's failing, and if he doesn't change things sharpish he's going to take us back down. Unless Edens and Sawiris decide sooner rather than later that being a Villa fan doesn't get much mileage if the results aren't right.
That's what I just didn't understand. He said he blames himself for being negative against Sheffield Utd, then brings on Marv when SJM gets crocked.
I thought he'd bring on Trez and let Jack play down the middle.
Saying that, AEG and Trez are so mind bogglingly crap at the moment, I can maybe understand the logic!!
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We keep looking at the problems we have up front but Smith has always had issues making his teams hard to beat. When you’re in a rut, that’s the first thing you need to do.
It will cost him his job as I just don’t see this team keeping a clean sheet.
Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi, Kodjia, Jota will cost him his job imo although I don’t think we are near to that point yet
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im sorry but dean smith is not good enough , i remembr walsal !! fans saying the same ..that says everything . and b4 the im a better fan than you brigade get on me there is absolutely no way wesley should have started today instead of kodja , simple as . also i would start the midfield that served us well last year in our run ...hourihane deep with mcginn and grealish ..luiz is shit and nakamba aint no better ....
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The lesson from 2015 of filling your team with inexperienced but talented players & a centre forward who can't do the job he was bought for hasn't been learned. We lack leadership, organisation & experience. We need to act quickly but I fear we may be adrift by then.
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First 45 minutes was the worst I’ve seen in a long time. A few boos from around me and the usual arguments flared up between non booers and booers.
Nobody came out of today well especially our coaching staff who made themselves look like absolute fools bringing on Kodjia with 15 to go. Clueless.
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We keep looking at the problems we have up front but Smith has always had issues making his teams hard to beat. When you’re in a rut, that’s the first thing you need to do.
It will cost him his job as I just don’t see this team keeping a clean sheet.
Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi, Kodjia, Jota will cost him his job imo although I don’t think we are near to that point yet
John, I accept they are all very inconsistent but goals are not a problem. We are better than average on goals scored. But any team that concedes two goals a game is not going to stay up.
We are badly organised and have a soft centre.
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Well that started badly, got progressively worse and the less said about the end, the better. At least some kind soul handed my glasses in at the club shop so I was able to get them back after the game. Watched the proceedings in a blurred haze which probably helped.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
Big Sam....I'd rather have Frankie goes to Hollywood in charge.
Relax! ;)
As for big Sam I would back him to keep us up but it wouldn't be good to watch and would be a short term fix.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
Big Sam....I'd rather have Frankie goes to Hollywood in charge.
Relax! ;)
As for big Sam I would back him to keep us up but it wouldn't be good to watch and would be a short term fix.
I'd take a short-term fix rather than a painful relegation followed by another 3 years in the Championship.
He's met with snobbery, but went into his last job at Everton when they were bang in trouble, kept them up easily and followed it up with an 8th placed finish. He's unfashionable, it isn't great to watch, but he gets the job done.
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Well that was a good way to start the festive period!! Looked flat from the off, wrong choice made when McGinn went off in the first few minutes, looked toothless in attack, wide open in midfield, vulnerable at the back and then didn’t act at half time when it was desperately needed.
We are getting worse game by game and the worrying thing is that we don’t seem to have anyone capable of arresting the slide.
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Lacking in all of the attributes needed to win a football match, beaten in most tackles slow on the ball and we looked in poor condition.
They were much better than I expected but we were so lacking in confidence and zip, we ambled around aimlessly, they looked quick and motivated. Again, they copied Leicester and had their full backs pin us into our own third with only out ball to Wesley, who tried hard but looks lacking in basic technique and intelligence.
Jack put the effort in, even if it didn’t seem to go for him until the last few minutes.
Pretty poor all round
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We're almost there. Just need to sort out the defence, midfield and attack.
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(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78861743_10158097187277658_3721640413828743168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=IqhFr5M0LKAAQnUwz34NAnXf7v1LelbZ-tbrRb35-dGvQKEhbRs4qn8lg&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=b27fca13b474658755e4985a5e2b0109&oe=5EAD27E2)
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Nobody came out of today well especially our coaching staff who made themselves look like absolute fools bringing on Kodjia with 15 to go. Clueless.
Kodjia had over 30 minutes and looked lively. Mind you, he should have been on at half time.
The line-up was piss poor to begin with. Let's just leave out Jota altogether, the only player currently capable of picking a pass. ::)
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That performance was as bad as anything served up by McLeish, Lambert, RDM, Sherwood, Garde, Black or Bruce. Absolute garbage from the players and the manager.
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I agree Brian, it was desperately poor. The ground was half empty by full time, and the boos were extremely loud and noticeable. If Smith is still in charge for the Norwich game, then if they beat us, which they probably will, it'll be his McLeish v Wigan moment.
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Watch and weep (https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-soton/408151)
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
No fuming way
If it comes to a change, and I hope it dosnt(yet) I hope the club has more ambition then “Big Sam”
Big Sam....I'd rather have Frankie goes to Hollywood in charge.
Relax! ;)
As for big Sam I would back him to keep us up but it wouldn't be good to watch and would be a short term fix.
I'd take a short-term fix rather than a painful relegation followed by another 3 years in the Championship.
He's met with snobbery, but went into his last job at Everton when they were bang in trouble, kept them up easily and followed it up with an 8th placed finish. He's unfashionable, it isn't great to watch, but he gets the job done.
I would share the view of a short term fix. If we go back down, who knows how many years it will be before we get back. The brand of football over the last couple of months certainly hasn't been anything special or good to watch either.
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Lacking in all of the attributes needed to win a football match, beaten in most tackles slow on the ball and we looked in poor condition.
They were much better than I expected but we were so lacking in confidence and zip, we ambled around aimlessly, they looked quick and motivated. Again, they copied Leicester and had their full backs pin us into our own third with only out ball to Wesley, who tried hard but looks lacking in basic technique and intelligence.
Jack put the effort in, even if it didn’t seem to go for him until the last few minutes.
Pretty poor all round
Teams have worked us out. If I was managing a team against us, I would be quite happy to have only two at the back seeing as Wesley is so isolated and lacks any real threat. This allows the full-backs to be pushed on to provide width, meaning the central area can be overloaded or attacking players can be pushed on. Leicester did it to us and Southampton did it today.
We also look very vulnerable when the ball is switched quickly to the wide areas and our full-backs are left one-to-one.
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Jack had 2 and even 3 men on him every time, teams know if they stop him they stop us.
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Jack was terrific particularly second-half. A brilliant player to watch - sadly if this carries on he'll be sold in the summer, and definitely if we get relegated.
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If you had been in a coma and woke to be shown a recording of that game today then asked to guess who the manager of the side was you could name any of the last eight and expect to be right. Reminded me of the K Mac game against Spurs.
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Quite what Nakamba thought he was doing for their third goal, god only knows. And I think the chances of Man City exercising Douglas Luiz's buy back clause are slim to non-existent. Engels is too slow to play in this league without Mings it seems. It looked like he was running through a swamp to try to get back for their second. What a hopeless bunch of slow carthorses we bought this summer.
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Nakamba was at fault for the 2nd and 3rd, let Bertrand run passed him unnoposed for the 2nd which lead to their corner.
The 2nd coming of Kante he aint.
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And I think the chances of Man City exercising Douglas Luiz's buy back clause are slim to non-existent.
As I watched this afternoon I said to myself 'He's ours for as long as we want him.'
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With hindsight I can say without doubt I haven't changed my mind one bit, that was horrendous, we are now official relegation fodder, right in the mix, something needs to be done, fast, I don't think there is any doubt we will pick up 3 points versus Norwich at home, is that enough, probably enough to keep Smith at the helm but really we should be going forward to keep the club in the Premiership, can't see anything changing as we go into the more difficult end of the season, we need to think big, stop scrutting around scraping the barrel for inexperienced managers lets get in a proven track record, if Everton can get Carlo Ancelotti surely we can approach Arsene Wenger, yes he has his demands in that he likes more than just to manage a club, he likes to completely reshape a club, it worked at Arsenal and lets face it, we need it.
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With hindsight I can say without doubt I haven't changed my mind one bit, that was horrendous, we are now official relegation fodder, right in the mix, something needs to be done, fast, I don't think there is any doubt we will pick up 3 points versus Norwich at home, is that enough, probably enough to keep Smith at the helm but really we should be going forward to keep the club in the Premiership, can't see anything changing as we go into the more difficult end of the season, we need to think big, stop scrutting around scraping the barrel for inexperienced managers lets get in a proven track record, if Everton can get Carlo Ancelotti surely we can approach Arsene Wenger, yes he has his demands in that he likes more than just to manage a club, he likes to completely reshape a club, it worked at Arsenal and lets face it, we need it.
I have doubts about us picking up 3 points from Norwich at home. Crippling doubts.
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Right now I’m convinced none of the players know what the fuck they are doing. Because the tactics that don’t work are being employed to damaging effect week after week. The players look completely fucked off with the nonsensical lump up the ball up to the lump tactic or the equally stupid playing Jack Grealish on the wing approach. He doesn’t make HT changes. He has lost us games from winning positions not making adjustments late on. Players have been played hurt are now injured which fucks us even more. The whole thing is a disaster much of his own doing.
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Just home. That’s up there with some of the worst shit I’ve seen. Utterly abject and clueless. Lose v Norwich and atmosphere will turn nasty again.
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Full match showing has just started on Sky channel 402 if you can bear it. McGinn's just gone off.
Apparently it's the 'Game of the Day'.
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What a horror show that was! The very least you expect from professional footballers is appetite, desire, a willingness to put in a shift. That's a given but we were second to everything. Southampton wanted it more, they were quicker physically and mentally.
Confidence can go, sure, but hard work and application matters.
Jack kept going to the end and was on his back with his hands across his face in front of the Holte for several minutes after the game. He clearly is losing heart.
Jack cares as do a few others but as for most of them I don't know.
This was a very dispiriting afternoon. Norwich just in terms of application will tell us a lot.
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I haven’t seen the game yet so can’t really comment on it. But 1 point in the last 5 matches is relegation form and the worst form in the league. Something has to change and fast. I’m not calling for it, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see Deano sacked if we don’t see an improvement in the next three games.
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Dean won't be sacked over the course of the next three games.
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I haven’t seen the game yet so can’t really comment on it.
If you saw the Leicester game then it was pretty much like that.
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What a horror show that was! The very least you expect from professional footballers is appetite, desire, a willingness to put in a shift. That's a given but we were second to everything. Southampton wanted it more, they were quicker physically and mentally.
Confidence can go, sure, but hard work and application matters.
Jack kept going to the end and was on his back with his hands across his face in front of the Holte for several minutes after the game. He clearly is losing heart.
Jack cares as do a few others but as for most of them I don't know.
This was a very dispiriting afternoon. Norwich just in terms of application will tell us a lot.
Grealish's application was as bad as anyone else in the first half. Whinging to anyone and everyone aswell.
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Leeg was in attendance, so that kind of performance was nailed on
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Yes but Leeg lost his glasses so it does not count. He actually has to see the game.
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Yes but Leeg lost his glasses so it does not count. He actually has to see the game.
I saw a lot of blurs.
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Yes but Leeg lost his glasses so it does not count. He actually has to see the game.
I saw a lot of blurs.
That was just the speed at which we capitulated, glasses wouldn't have helped
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He should be sacked, not for todays horror show but for constantly and stubbornly playing to the same failed game plan each week with players that are clearly out of their depth.
El Ghazi is powder puff I don't want to see him in the team again, Wesley, we can all see that the guy is no where near premiership standard yet week after week he is trundled out instead of recognising the obvious and finding a game plan that doesn't rely on a big man up top I mean if Kodja can come on and improve us god help us.
The pity of it is we have one of the best footballers ever to come out of Villa Park and in the summer unless drastic action is taken he will be lost to us.
I don't want to give Dean more time I have seen enough wait another month and we will be relegated and the person who chose these new players that for the most are very average should go as well.
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Yes but Leeg lost his glasses so it does not count. He actually has to see the game.
I saw a lot of blurs.
So did our defenders as their forwards ran by them.
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Very depressing can only concur with what is being said. Dean said something about "no tactics out there" again - does this mean players are not listening to him? From feeling we would be OK to now feeling we are likely to go down if we stick with this groups and these "tactics." Its not working.
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It reminds me very much of the season we got relegated, where I used to remove my glasses on purpose so I could not see in perfect clarity just how awful we were. I don't think we are at that stage. Yet.
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We lost comfortably today at home to a team that lost to another in this division 9 fucking 0 at their ground.
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Dean Smith seems a good guy and a fervent Villa fan if he goes now he will always be thought of as the manager that got us promotion, if he stays too long he will lose that kudos.
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What a horror show that was! The very least you expect from professional footballers is appetite, desire, a willingness to put in a shift. That's a given but we were second to everything. Southampton wanted it more, they were quicker physically and mentally.
Confidence can go, sure, but hard work and application matters.
Jack kept going to the end and was on his back with his hands across his face in front of the Holte for several minutes after the game. He clearly is losing heart.
Jack cares as do a few others but as for most of them I don't know.
This was a very dispiriting afternoon. Norwich just in terms of application will tell us a lot.
Grealish's application was as bad as anyone else in the first half. Whinging to anyone and everyone aswell.
To be honest I don’t see him as Captain material and lying on the floor at the end didn’t impress me.
If he’s skipper you’re out among your own players and opposition regardless of result at the end.
I’m absolutely not doubting his effort and work rate which in my mind is beyond criticism but to me he isn’t a Skipper.
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Grealish is no captain fantastic, that's for sure. Drops his head as quickly as anyone else when we concede. Doesn't talk to his players on the pitch or offer encouragement when we're under pressure.
I appreciate he's the type of player who does his talking with his play, and James Chester was similar in that respect too, never the most vocal or lively of captains. It's why I said earlier this season we should have given Mings the armband as a de facto thing.
Wouldn't have helped us today, mind, but we've desperately short on proper leadership all season except when he's been speaking up.
Whatever happened to Smith's "rotating captain" plan anyway? Declared his intention to do so last season, not long after coming in, and then it got promptly dropped and forgotten about.
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The defending for each of their three goals was more appalling than for the one before. Absolutely abject today.
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We also seemed to have several players today who can trap a ball further than I can kick it.
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Just watched the game on RMC Sport at 9pm. Fucking diabolical. We were shit. Really shit. Thank fuck for Heaton or it would have been worse.
Fucking toothless, slow, disorganised and likely to be relegated.
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We also seemed to have several players today who can trap a ball further than I can kick it.
It's confidence too, it's gone for a host of players. It's happened before, with the wrong manager.and poor dressing room, arguably with better players.
It's hard to believe that the likes of Veretout, Traore, Gueye, Amavi were part of the worst Villa side in 30 years, relegated in humiliating fashion a few years back. Westwood and Ayew have gone onto have solid EPL careers since. Grealish was there too as a very promising youngster. None of them are bad players as proven since but were part of a horrendous team. Most of the above, like the crew at the moment, hid on the pitch at times or couldn't even make the team. It's very hard shine in a team that is rudderless.
Hence why I'd give Smith one more game and make the change then as the current situation can't be allowed to drift.
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I like Smith. A lot. I have the utmost respect for what he did for us last season. I hope he can sort it out. I really do. At the moment with his inflexibility and stubborn refusal to change things I am losing hope that he can.
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Isn’t there a button in this game we can click before the next match that says “Ask Assistant to Pick Team?”
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I like Smith. A lot. I have the utmost respect for what he did for us last season. I hope he can sort it out. I really do. At the moment with his inflexibility and stubborn refusal to change things I am losing hope that he can.
This.
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Mings absence ia giving us huge problems. We look like a shit championship team..
I think we are goung down if we stick with smith. He looks like he is feeling the pressure.
The recent form has been nothing shirt of diabolical
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The plain and simple fact is that we have got FUCK ALL up front. We have one month to address the situation. The ball keeps coming back.
We have two danger players McGinn & Grealish, when McGinn went off they doubled up on Grealish.
This is a brutal league. No passengers i.e Houranne
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I thought we'd turn this lot over today without much fuss. I thought we'd shown enough against sides of a better calibre to be capable of keeping out of trouble. But Aston Villa are going down as it stands. There will be a change, because there's far too much time left to put it right. Smith gets two games and then I think he's gone if he doesn't win them both. It's just too convenient a time to bring a new boss in - a complete transfer window and a cup semi final. I'd rather Dean got both of those, but I don't think he will.
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An unlucky loss would be acceptable. However, we were fucking battered to death. At one point they flashed up that Southampton had run 5km more than us. At home. We are in the shit.
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We’ve gone from plucky losers to deserved losers in a short space of time. It was looking like we could hold our own in this league and be safe this season, but the very same new players are now looking bang average/poor signings, and we are genuine relegation fodder as it stands. Unfortunately it’s looking like the signings weren’t good enough and the end result is we simply have too many poor players all over pitch...and I hate to say it, but it’s looking increasingly like DS doesn’t know how to change or fix it.
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I can take losing when beaten by better sides.
What I can’t take is being outworked and outbattled.
Woeful all over the pitch - and from the sidelines.
We are bang in trouble
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I’ve seen this too many times - we’re broken. No movement, desire - all of the plughole circling Villa. Do we get a gilet part timer, a french never could timer or roger the sausage to stop the rot? For me - belief is the key - certainty that killing yourself will get results - it’s a big one. I didn’t see any belief at all. The next question is - stay in the premiership at all costs or go down and be interesting - seems the laws might make it a very precarious place for us to be. I’ll say it - we are the perfect storm of a yo-yo club at the moment. 6 from the next 6 would be great but I think we’ll fall short with this crew.
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As the weeks and games go by it sadly appears that Smith and his assistants are out of their depth at this level.Game after game we make the same mistakes and they carry on changing nothing .We have now conceded 9 headed goals in the Premier the highest by any side We have also conceded 8 goals from corners also the most by any Premier side.Despite this we still see no defenders on the sticks .I would bet we probably have conceded the most goals in the first five minutes of the second half as well. Not sure if this is true but have read somewhere we are the only Premier side not to score a headed goal .All very depressing and to be honest Smith seems to be very stubborn i can not see it changing
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Game over with 40 minutes left to play made for an exceptionally bad day at the office. The teams failings seem to have been well covered here but I just want to add that Anwar El Ghazi’s showing today was as bad as anything I’ve seen from a Villa player in years. A pox on his useless fcuking house.
Keep the faith.
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Lazy, disinterested and fucked.
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The crowd started to turn for the first time today, it would be a pity if he ended his time at villa by having supporters openly calling for his sacking.
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Game over with 40 minutes left to play made for an exceptionally bad day at the office. The teams failings seem to have been well covered here but I just want to add that Anwar El Ghazi’s showing today was as bad as anything I’ve seen from a Villa player in years. A pox on his useless fcuking house.
Keep the faith.
Yes. He really was dreadful. At least two of the goals we shipped came from Guilbert getting no protection from him at all.
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The only (only!) crumb of comfort I got from today was that Southampton themselves looked dead and buried a few weeks ago when they lost 8-0 to Leicester. Just shows how quickly things can turnaround.
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They’ve shown they’ve got players with a bit of heart though and, most importantly, a goal scorer.
We, on the other hand, fold like a cheap tent and have a forward line with all the cutting edge of a wet hanky.
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The only (only!) crumb of comfort I got from today was that Southampton themselves looked dead and buried a few weeks ago when they lost 8-0 0-9 to Leicester. Just shows how quickly things can turnaround.
That happened almost 2 months ago. Since then we've played 9 league games and won once, they've won 3. When exactly will our "turnaround" start to actually happen?
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F-cking livid about yesterday's game. Our 433 has been well and truly found out. We have 2 attacking full backs who want to bomb forward almost at the same time without anybody covering them (ridiculous really when the ball can only be either on one side or the other). The result is that when the ball inevitably breaks down we are suspect to the quick breakaway with 2 slow centre backs covering 4 defensive positions. If they are to continue playing that way without cover, then we need to play with 3 cbs!
What role was Luiz playing yesterday especially after McGinn went off? He was not in the game at all along with El Ghazi making our right side ineffective. I expected both of these players to be subbed at half time, yet one of them someone made it to the end of the game.
With the best will in the world Wesley is not a target man! Their defenders who started off nervously visibly grew in confidence because they had nothing to contend with.
Why after Kodj and Trez came on did Jack continue to play on the left and Luiz drop back to play alongside Nakamba as 2 dcms leaving a huge gap between defence and attack?
I like Dean Smith but after yesterday he needs to pull his f-cking finger out! That performance was a f-cking shambles from start to finish!
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Yeah that was pretty much as I saw it. The full-backs go bombing on, drifting inside and when we lose the ball it's two defenders to cover those four positions. Add to this, no positional help the other way from the wide players, means that we are so open and easy to create chances against.
The players go chasing the ball and there is so much naivety at the moment.
I had huge doubts about our coaching setup after the Albion game last year and everyone responded. What has Neil Cutler done for example to justify such a prominent coaching role.
Football is an unforgiving game and moves on so quickly, they need to find an answer otherwise there will be changes.
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as shambolic as anything from the ignominy of 2015/16. Big week or so ahead for the owners .
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Summed up perfectly Mr Underhill. Time to find out what our owners are made of.
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And we’ve gone back to conceding cornerlties every match.
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Always wanted to write a truly insightful Villa book. The Return Of The Cornerlty. Hm.
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We've spent £60m+ on new defenders and keeper yet are conceding two goals a game on average.
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4 points from the last 27 (9 games) is appalling. The team play so open and get picked off easily by the opposition.8
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No headed goals, a striker who cannot head the ball and a defence that cannot protect their goal in the air from set pieces. Add to the £60 million plus for the defenders the wages of the coaches. Yes John Terry I am looking at you.
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Villa 1 Leicester 4. Two quick strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Villa 1 Southampton 3. Two quickish strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Opposition managers saying that they intended to exploit the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full backs.
Someone is doing some homework. Can we do some homework please?
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Went up yesterday. I sill maintain that these players are decent, promising young players that should be easily good enough to play at this level but we just don't look like a team and as others have pointed out, tactically we're too easy to play against and don't have a plan B. Smith himself falls into the same category as the players, in-experienced, lots of promise but finding his feet (the hard way at the moment). Somehow, we have to find a formation with the right tactics and the personnel from this big squad to grind some results out. I like the philosophy and the way they've been going about building this squad but the sole focus from now on in is survival, they have to do what it takes to make this happen. I would like to think that they'd bring in a couple of experienced attacking players who know the premier league for starters, and as I say work on some winning ideas and tactics on the training ground.
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Sheffield united have spent less and look like a proper team. Us on the hand meanwhile play well one in 3-4 games. That consistently isnt good enough if you want to stay in premier league
How many game sunder smith from a winning position have we gone on to not win? He makes the same mistakes every week and defensively we looking worse as ecah week goes on.
If he loses against norwich then big questions will need to be asked as that sjmply is not good enough. Spending 100m and being 18th at this stage is not good enough
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Villa 1 Leicester 4. Two quick strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Villa 1 Southampton 3. Two quickish strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Opposition managers saying that they intended to exploit the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full backs.
Someone is doing some homework. Can we do some homework please?
This is really pissing me off, I know I sounded like an annoying broken record mentioning it 3 or 4 times last night but playing a high line against Vardy and Iheanacho and not learning a thing from that experience really is woeful planning.
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They don’t look like they’re coached or that they do any fitness work at all. That is damning.
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Villa 1 Leicester 4. Two quick strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Villa 1 Southampton 3. Two quickish strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Opposition managers saying that they intended to exploit the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full backs.
Someone is doing some homework. Can we do some homework please?
This is really pissing me off, I know I sounded like an annoying broken record mentioning it 3 or 4 times last night but playing a high line against Vardy and Iheanacho and not learning a thing from that experience really is woeful planning.
It's a very good point from BB that I hadn't considered, the Southampton manager must have watched the replay of the Leicester game and just decided to do the same thing. Feckin worked a treat as well didn't it.
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Villa 1 Leicester 4. Two quick strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Villa 1 Southampton 3. Two quickish strikers exploiting the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full-backs.
Opposition managers saying that they intended to exploit the empty spaces behind our high line and bombing on full backs.
Someone is doing some homework. Can we do some homework please?
It's so damn obvious too. Guilbert bombs forward constantly, far too much in my view. AEG offers no cover whatsoever and might aswell not be there when we lose the ball. Our right sided midfielder, (of the three), (e.g. Luiz, Lansbury, Hourihane) offer no cover either and are usually out of position themselves. I felt sorry for Engels yesterday for that second goal. Granted he should have taken the yellow but our line was too high to try and play offside. He had no midfielder or right back near him to try and drop off. Instead he was left with the option of taking Long out or trying to win the ball. He did neither but the root cause for that goal was elsewhere.
That's why the guff from Smith pre-game re playing on the front foot was particularly worrying. The solution is not for both full backs to bomb forward with an immobile and frankly gutless midfield MIA...centre backs haven't a prayer in that situation. As the superstars Long, Redmond and Ings proved beyond doubt yesterday.
The above scenario is something that Benitez for example would rectify immediately.
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We have 10 players on the pitch that wait for Grealish to do something. To allow this to happen is first and foremost Dean's fault. We're not going to start winning again until this mentality changes. We bought a load of players in the summer that had potential and were to be developed. All I'm seeing are passengers.
Our last good performance was Liverpool where they didn’t have that option.
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They don’t look like they’re coached or that they do any fitness work at all. That is damning.
Indeed. It appears far too many individuals are allowed to carry on doing their own ineffectual thing - when it's patently obvious that we desperately need to be properly organised, disciplined and 100% committed throughout every game. Admittedly every player is responsible for what they do (or don't do) on the park, but ultimately the buck starts and stops with DS. I hope to god he has a Damascene moment bloody soon as his future - and that of our club - depends on him waking up to the bleedin' obvious. This current shambles simply can't be allowed to continue, but I'm increasingly doubtful that Dean Smith has the required skill and experience necessary to turn this around now. Lose to Norwich & reckon he'll be toast, so no pressure eh?
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Yesterday was probably the worst we have played under Smith. The worrying thing was, Southampton didn't look great either but they didn't need to be. We lacked ideas other than giving it to Jack and like a few other have said, he should have gone into the middle once McGinn went off (who shouldn't have played in the first place anyway). Also, Kodjia should have come on at 2-0 instead of waiting until we were three down. All in all, a fuck up from start to finish.
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I looked at the goals again this morning. The more I see them, the worse things look. Douglas Luiz actually standing still, outside the area, Engels and Targett slow to catch up or to react, lack of speed of thought from both of them. The crap challenge by El Ghazi, who I guess shouldn't have been marking Stephens in the first place. We always look vulnerable from crosses in to the box. We are so weak, physically, in the centre of midfield too. It really was very poor and this seems to be becoming the norm under Dean, sadly.
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Yesterday was abysmal, we are far to open allowing the opposition to make countless crosses into the box and it seems we can no longer defend.
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We had a very similar run under Dean last season from mid December to end of Feb, the main difference then was that we had Tammy Abraham’s that could Nick a goal or two and salvage the odd draw or win in the middle of all the duff performances (qpr, hull and Ipswich at home spring to mind).
This is not all wesleys fault at all, but when playing badly and being low on confidence we no longer have the get out clause of an Abraham goal.
Secondly, There were other factors such as the form of Mings and Tuanzebe, but grealish coming back was the catalyst for that run that got us up.
It seems we need some sort of similar boost to get us out of the current mess. We need Mings back ASAP for a start and stating the obvious but another forward in January.
I honestly don’t see getting rid of smith as the answer, we’ve been there before chooping and changing and it doesn’t work
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I'd forgotten how dog awful we were at that time last season. Fuck me, QPR was dire, ditto Ipswich.
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Well, we chooped Bruce for Smith and it worked.
Chooping and changing does work.
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Well, we chooped Bruce for Smith and it worked.
Chooping and changing does work.
Fair point, but on the law of averages we had Houiller, lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Black and De Matteo in 6. Years and non of that worked.
I know it’s not the point your making but Bruce looks like he’s keeping newcastle up somehow despite how shite they are and I don’t think any of us would want him back. Owners could sack Smith and find a Bruce or Allardyce to potentially keep us up, but that is so short term and does nothing to build the club.
I don’t want us to get relegated and lose Grealish, McGinn etc, but I think I would rather go down and keep smith (like burnley with Dyche) than have a stop gap Allardyce or the like.
But granted Smith is making errors and needs a plan B. And quite honestly we need to scrape a horrible 1-0
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The big difference yesterday was that Southampton had Ings and Redmond. Ings never gave our defence a second's rest, he was full of running and still has really good pace and obviously an eye for goal. Redmond was great out wide, hardly seemed to give the ball away, and waltzed past our hopeless midfield and defence at will. Compare that with Wesley whose one talent is the ability to chest the ball down 40 yards from goal, and El Ghazi who is shit at everything.
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Sheffield united have spent less and look like a proper team. Us on the hand meanwhile play well one in 3-4 games. That consistently isnt good enough if you want to stay in premier league
How many game sunder smith from a winning position have we gone on to not win? He makes the same mistakes every week and defensively we looking worse as ecah week goes on.
If he loses against norwich then big questions will need to be asked as that sjmply is not good enough. Spending 100m and being 18th at this stage is not good enough
Playing devil's advocate, Wilder has built that team over a period of two years, rather than rush to build one over the Summer.
However, its alarming that we are getting worse by the week. We haven't looked right since the Liverpool defeat imo.
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Sheffield united have spent less and look like a proper team. Us on the hand meanwhile play well one in 3-4 games. That consistently isnt good enough if you want to stay in premier league
How many game sunder smith from a winning position have we gone on to not win? He makes the same mistakes every week and defensively we looking worse as ecah week goes on.
If he loses against norwich then big questions will need to be asked as that sjmply is not good enough. Spending 100m and being 18th at this stage is not good enough
Playing devil's advocate, Wilder has built that team over a period of two years, rather than rush to build one over the Summer.
However, its alarming that we are getting worse by the week. We haven't looked right since the Liverpool defeat imo.
With the money spent, we should have managed far better players than we ended up with. £15m on Matt Targett? FFS.
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Sheffield united have spent less and look like a proper team. Us on the hand meanwhile play well one in 3-4 games. That consistently isnt good enough if you want to stay in premier league
How many game sunder smith from a winning position have we gone on to not win? He makes the same mistakes every week and defensively we looking worse as ecah week goes on.
If he loses against norwich then big questions will need to be asked as that sjmply is not good enough. Spending 100m and being 18th at this stage is not good enough
I don't think we should compare ourselves with them. They had a full season of development last year, albeit in a different division. They were good all the way through, and their football rightly got them automatically promoted. We relied on a record-breaking run to make the play-offs, won an attritional semi on penalties, and by Wembley it appeared to be the will of a higher power that we should go up. We had to spend big to even give ourselves a chance this season, and we still have a squad padded out with players that aren't good enough to progress us in the slightest.
But I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of the post. Yesterday was beyond fucking pathetic, up(down?) there with some of 15/16s shitfest.
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I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and I can understand why but for a start, i'd put Neil Taylor back in. He's utterly hopeless going forward but at least he can defend and a bit of experience in the team at the moment wouldn't go amiss.
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I’d make Targett fitter.
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I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and I can understand why but for a start, i'd put Neil Taylor back in. He's utterly hopeless going forward but at least he can defend and a bit of experience in the team at the moment wouldn't go amiss.
I tend to agree. I think even that that would just be rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic at the moment though.
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I think amongst a number of issues, the biggest flaw in the current game plan is that neither El Ghazi or Trez look good enough, combined with Wes being the raw player he is, it completely undermines the way smith wants to play. It could be confidence or just ability but we may be down by the time they start to find their feet. To compensate he plays grealish out wide which wastes his talent.
Luiz and Nakamba also look short of what we need but there looks enough talent there for me. I think McGinn being out is a blow but may force smiths hand to play a more consistent midfield. For one Grealish has to move back into the middle and I would move Luiz further forward alongside him(he’s not a defensive midfielder for me), with Nakamba sitting.
As for the wingers, I think he should play Targett and Guilbert as wing backs, both of them are better attacking then either El Ghazi or Trez. Doubt he’ll do this though
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
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Movement, passing, defending crosses/set pieces/corners, taking throw ins, tracking back - all the basics Villa seem to have been unable to do for years.
In other circumastances I can see some of our players being effective - not at Villa where we seem to be unable to put a team together with a formation and strategy that works. I'm baffled. Smith is the latest manager to be be baffled.
Heads starting to drop - why don't our players ever give 100%? Other teams sweat blood but ours saunter around without a care in the world - something not right.
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Forgot to say, top man CT. Thank you very much indeed for the ticket. Plus a big thank you to whoever handed my brand new pair of glasses in at the club shop as I must have lost them in there whilst getting a couple of Christmas presents for Aston-Lee. Weather was very kind for selling.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
Me too, I’m convinced he’s going to be brilliant. He’s one summer signing I really really like.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
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I felt the full backs were left exposed all game. The two centre halves very poor, pulled about by a bit of pace.
Hourihane was a hologram, Luiz males one good pass, then gives it away, let's one tackle slip him and looks like a young player with potential.
Jack is wasted out wide. Their system put 3 or 4 on him at points. He needs to come back centrally and play through the middle.
Disappointing McGinn got injured so early on, as without him they played through our lines on the break too easily. I felt it was a foul on him before he was injured.
El Ghazi was anonymous, Wesley actually played alright and we looked a little more threatening with two up.
We were slow in and out of possesison and far too predictable in our attacks from the full backs. We need to drop 433 as it does not work and serves to isolate our best player.
Jack must play centrally in the midfield where he can go either way and not be shackled by space of the touchline.
Who we put in midfield around him is a much of a muchness. Nkamba certainly adds physical presence, but who else remains to be seen.
We're too slow in the final third. We need a centre forward who can carry a goal threat and play off the shoulder and somebody with pace in midfield who break beyond.
We are in desperate form and at such a critical time. Get January wrong and we could be relegated. Getting January right could mean not only a couple of new players, but a new man to coach them.
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Go and get Big Sam, now. It's the only chance of making us hard to beat and with it a hope of staying up.
Fuck me
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We've spent £60m+ on new defenders and keeper yet are conceding two goals a game on average.
We miss Mings badly.
For all his faults (and his form did dip in the games before he was injured) we're now seeing what a big miss he is in terms of leadership and organisation. Also missing him on the corners.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
I just like the look of him. He get's into the box a fair bit and I think maybe next season we will see the best of him once he's properly settled. Writing him off as a one footed donkey is ridiculous.
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Trez offered more in 5 minutes than El Ghazi has in two games.
El Ghazi is frustratingly inconsistent. He's either electric or anonymous.
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Trez offered more in 5 minutes than El Ghazi has in two games.
El Ghazi is frustratingly inconsistent. He's either electric or anonymous.
When was the last time he was electric I’m struggling to think of a game this season where he hasn’t been utterly anonymous.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
Have to agree with bb here. Haven't seen anything in him to suggest he can ever be a cracking player in this league.
Maybe next season in the Championship.
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I felt the full backs were left exposed all game. The two centre halves very poor, pulled about by a bit of pace.
Hourihane was a hologram, Luiz males one good pass, then gives it away, let's one tackle slip him and looks like a young player with potential.
Jack is wasted out wide. Their system put 3 or 4 on him at points. He needs to come back centrally and play through the middle.
Disappointing McGinn got injured so early on, as without him they played through our lines on the break too easily. I felt it was a foul on him before he was injured.
El Ghazi was anonymous, Wesley actually played alright and we looked a little more threatening with two up.
We were slow in and out of possesison and far too predictable in our attacks from the full backs. We need to drop 433 as it does not work and serves to isolate our best player.
Jack must play centrally in the midfield where he can go either way and not be shackled by space of the touchline.
Who we put in midfield around him is a much of a muchness. Nkamba certainly adds physical presence, but who else remains to be seen.
We're too slow in the final third. We need a centre forward who can carry a goal threat and play off the shoulder and somebody with pace in midfield who break beyond.
We are in desperate form and at such a critical time. Get January wrong and we could be relegated. Getting January right could mean not only a couple of new players, but a new man to coach them.
Agree with virtually all of this, apart from the new manager bit, but I may be blindingly loyal.
I was defending El Ghazi to a villa mate a few weeks ago and I think he has more in his locker than Trez, but he can be so shockingly poor at times, I think he needs to be left out for the time being. I find Luiz most frustrating, he has bags of skill and can find a pass but can be so lightweight, I think he needs to try pushing him further forwards, but maybe grasping at straws. January is massive and I think they may need to alter their buying potential philosophy to get some proven nous in the middle and up front. Saying all that a baggies mate of mine was saying Benrahma was best player on pitch when they played Brentford yesterday. Depending on how long mcginns going to be out maybe him on the wing and a relatively experienced forward is what we need.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
I just like the look of him. He get's into the box a fair bit and I think maybe next season we will see the best of him once he's properly settled. Writing him off as a one footed donkey is ridiculous.
It's only as ridiculous as saying there's a cracking player in there, when to date there has been no evidence of that whatsoever.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
I just like the look of him. He get's into the box a fair bit and I think maybe next season we will see the best of him once he's properly settled. Writing him off as a one footed donkey is ridiculous.
It's only as ridiculous as saying there's a cracking player in there, when to date there has been no evidence of that whatsoever.
Not half as ridiculous as calling a international winger a one footed donkey but hey, let's miserably write him off after a few months shall we?
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I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and I can understand why but for a start, i'd put Neil Taylor back in. He's utterly hopeless going forward but at least he can defend and a bit of experience in the team at the moment wouldn't go amiss.
A kid from Liverpool's u23s made him look a mug last week. Their replacements are poor but the likes of Taylor, Lansbury and Kodjia are not the answers I'm afraid.
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I think potentially there's a cracking player in Treseguet. He's been in and out the side and not really had a proper run which I think he should get. I honestly think in time he'll be really good for us.
What do you see in him? I see a one paced one trick one footed donkey/pony. AEG at least has plenty of talent, I don't think Trez has any.
I just like the look of him. He get's into the box a fair bit and I think maybe next season we will see the best of him once he's properly settled. Writing him off as a one footed donkey is ridiculous.
I agree, he has a bit of tenacity about him which is lacking in too many of our players.
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Excellent post.
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Maybe when McGinn went off Dean Smith should have brought Trez on and moved Jack into the middle. That way we would have maintained an attacking intent with a driving force from midfield against what started off as a nervy soton defence. Instead we went negative by bringing Nakamba on and moving Luiz who had f-ck all clue as to what he was supposed to be doing.
We would still have had to deal with awol full backs but surely a stiff message from the bench to the likes of el ghazi and trez if required about their defensive duties might have made a difference.
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Got to shake hands and have a brief chat with the legend Chris Nicholl. The lad trying to sell him a club Fifty50 ticket had no idea who he was.
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We were poor to start with, but got much, much worse when Southampton took the lead. Pretty much giving up like that is unforgivable. We came back into it, a bit, when Kodjia came on and Southamton, understandably, decided they were happy with what they had. Far too little, far too late.
The ref was a bellend, he seemed to find nonsense free kick to give them every time we won the ball. He is also responsible for McGinn's injury through not giving a certain Villa free kick seconds earlier. The worst we have had all season.
Even with that taken into account, though, an utterly pathetic performance.
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AEG is better on the left , he like to cut inside and shoot.I also think in a 4-3-3 you can play Kodjia as one of the wide attackers , he has pace and stength something we are missing.
If we put Grealish back to MF currently he would be the muscle there such is lack of physicality in there .
The formation issue defending seems to be in wide areas .AEG for instance he is the wide attacking forward is he the one supposed to track back and help the full back or is he expecting the right hand sided CM to do it ? Either was time and time again we get exposed in wide areas
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We were slow in and out of possesison and far too predictable in our attacks from the full backs. We need to drop 433 as it does not work and serves to isolate our best player.
He’s only ever played 4-3-3 so can’t see him changing, which will probably cost him in the end. He should have worked on more flexibility in formation when recruiting in the summer.
Mourinho plays it but it becomes 4-5-1 when the opposition has the ball. We are almost always out of shape when we lose it, hence the wide open spaces. Not enough energy in midfield or work rate from the front three.
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We have too many central midfielders and not enough pace or quality out wide and up front.
El Ghazi just isn't good enough, never beats his man and delivery is just OK.
Ditto Trez.
And Wesley is going to be the proximate cause of Smith being sacked. The manager has apparently chosen to stake his job on the only Brazilian professional footballer who can't trap a ball, the only 14 stone, 6 foot plus striker who can't win a header, and who has no idea of where or when to run.
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Double post, sorry. Stupid bloody phone.
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Phone out.
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As has been said for the last few games, the poor ball retention and lack of quick-thinking and pace is killing us. Added to that yesterday was the seeming lack of dynamism and desire.
A relegation side, if ever there was one.
Because AEG and Trezeguet are not really the answer, I'd want to see either a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 for the next games:
Heaton - Guilbert Engels Hause Targett - Hourihane Grealish Nakamba Luiz - Wesley Kodjia (assuming Mings and McGinn are unavailable).
OR
Heaton - Engels Konsa Hause - Guilbert Grealish Nakamba Hourihane Targett - Wesley Kodjia.
Got to do something different to keep the game tighter.
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Smith needs to change the bloody formation especially as teams target our flanks every single game.
Personally until Mings is back I'd try :
Heaton
Chester - as captain
Engels or Konza
Hause
Fred
Marv
Conor Doug or Lansbury
Jack
Targett
Kodjia
Trez or AEG
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Ever since the Man United match, when we turned in a very encouraging performance, things have turned pear shaped, so what are main reasons for the massive dip in form, as up to that match our season as a whole suggested we would avoid the drop. Trying to be positive, which is difficult, could it be a confidence thing, which we could put right on Thursday with a win.
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Oh and well done to the prick yesterday who placed what looked like his left over lunch in the collection tin by the guy playing the bagpipe on Trinity Road.
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Ever since the Man United match, when we turned in a very encouraging performance, things have turned pear shaped, so what are main reasons for the massive dip in form, as up to that match our season as a whole suggested we would avoid the drop. Trying to be positive, which is difficult, could it be a confidence thing, which we could put right on Thursday with a win.
We managed to score twice which evened out us managing to concede min 2 goals a game.Overall we played ok up there but still lost a lead , conceded from a cross and allowed them too many chances.
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Ever since the Man United match, when we turned in a very encouraging performance, things have turned pear shaped, so what are main reasons for the massive dip in form, as up to that match our season as a whole suggested we would avoid the drop. Trying to be positive, which is difficult, could it be a confidence thing, which we could put right on Thursday with a win.
We managed to score twice which evened out us managing to concede min 2 goals a game.Overall we played ok up there but still lost a lead , conceded from a cross and allowed them too many chances.
one thing we did show in that game was fight but that has disappeared.
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Phone out.
Yep, I'm not convinced about his phone.
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I am not being wise after the event,any of my friends would tell you i said this at the start of the season.To go into a season with just Wesley,Kodjia and Davies was just stupid in my view ..Wesley was unknown and nobody could have predicted just how awful he is.Kodjia was unproved at a higher level and tends to be injury prone and Davies ,well what can you say about him.He does not score goals and is injury prone .When he is injured he stays injured for months .Without a regular proven goalscorer we are always going to struggle
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The thing that struck me watching the highlights yesterday was on the second goal whoever it was chasing Long (Engels?) had the exact gait and pace of old custard pants when trying to forlornly to chase Ozil for England Against Germany in 2010. He looked like he was running through waist high water. If your intention is to play a high line against pacy strikers, which appears to be the case, you need very quick defenders. So why the fuck sign someone who runs at the speed of dark?
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Look at Sheffield United: chasing down defenders, chasing lost causes, block after block, defenders doing proper defending throwing themselves in front of the ball. players challenging hard for headers, marking their men, and taking their chances, that is why they will stay up comfortably.
Look at Aston Villa: players constantly falling to the floor at the slightest challenge and holding their faces, whingening at the referee, defenders who seem to have no communication with each other, no marking from set pieces, a midfield you can drive a truck through, a centre forward who misses vital chances and cannot hold up the ball, wide players who do not get crosses into the box, overplaying in the wrong areas, a reliance on one player, not a team, serious injuiries to our most aggressive players.
After yesterday I saw Engels disintegrate from a player I thought showed promise into a jibbering wreck of a defender, Hause likewise, Guilkbert had one of the poorest performances I've ever seen, ditto El Ghazzi, Jack tried but he can't do it all, the only player who really looked like he was up for a fight was Luiz.
Smith stood and watched, where is the young tactical manager that was at Brentford? He seems to have assembled a squad of players with no backbone, who cannot comprehend that you can't play unless you win the ball, and if you change it we haven't the type of players re. Sheffield United.
This manager assembled this squad, which we all know is weak, and unless something changes we are going down, with a whimper.
Shane Long FFS terrorised our defence!
I think players like Hutton and even Chester woukld have given him a whack or two, but he and Ings had the freedom of our defence, we conceded on average 25 shots per game...how the frig are we going to win a game like that!!!!
For FFS Smith tighten up our team somehow (ie three at the back, play for some clean sheets to build confidence) or we are doomed to relegation.
Rant over
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Ever since the Man United match, when we turned in a very encouraging performance, things have turned pear shaped, so what are main reasons for the massive dip in form, as up to that match our season as a whole suggested we would avoid the drop. Trying to be positive, which is difficult, could it be a confidence thing, which we could put right on Thursday with a win.
We managed to score twice which evened out us managing to concede min 2 goals a game.Overall we played ok up there but still lost a lead , conceded from a cross and allowed them too many chances.
El Ghazi started that match brilliantly. To me he's the player in the squad that most sums up up. On his day fantastic but so erratic with his performances.
His stats at this level don't look too bad but I've been disappointed with his performances generally this season. This isn't some guy we've dug up from the minor leagues, he played in CL for Ajax.
Mind you I was criticising him this time last year and he stepped up very well in the run in so hopefully he can do the same again.
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He was shocking against Sheffield Utd and picked again yesterday and as even worse.
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The Sheffield United comparison is very telling.
I am concerned by the fact so many of our players spend matches jogging around, there seems to be zero intensity, and that's a problem which starts and ends with the manager.
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The Sheffield United comparison is very telling.
I am concerned by the fact so many of our players spend matches jogging around, there seems to be zero intensity, and that's a problem which starts and ends with the manager.
I think if we sigh every time we see the team sheet and the formation the players experiencing something similar.
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The Sheffield United comparison is very telling.
I am concerned by the fact so many of our players spend matches jogging around, there seems to be zero intensity, and that's a problem which starts and ends with the manager.
Not the players??
Agree formation etc etc, but even my lads under 10 team take some responsibility for their own performances. Not being in form and lacking confidence is one thing, but being arsed chasing back is another. Take Guilbert, didn’t have a great game, but every time he lost the ball he made every effort to chase back. Targett, El Ghazi, Luiz need a fecking rocket.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
And the same bloody formation grrrrrrr
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
Yup. It’s very poor management.
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Yes. That. He needs to change it.
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I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and I can understand why but for a start, i'd put Neil Taylor back in. He's utterly hopeless going forward but at least he can defend and a bit of experience in the team at the moment wouldn't go amiss.
I tend to agree. I think even that that would just be rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic at the moment though.
Chester, Taylor and Elmo all have to come back in for me. We HAVE to become harder and with more nous at the back, if we persist with a midfield that doesn't know if it's coming or going.
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Look at Sheffield United: chasing down defenders, chasing lost causes, block after block, defenders doing proper defending throwing themselves in front of the ball. players challenging hard for headers, marking their men, and taking their chances, that is why they will stay up comfortably.
Look at Aston Villa: players constantly falling to the floor at the slightest challenge and holding their faces, whingening at the referee, defenders who seem to have no communication with each other, no marking from set pieces, a midfield you can drive a truck through, a centre forward who misses vital chances and cannot hold up the ball, wide players who do not get crosses into the box, overplaying in the wrong areas, a reliance on one player, not a team, serious injuiries to our most aggressive players.
After yesterday I saw Engels disintegrate from a player I thought showed promise into a jibbering wreck of a defender, Hause likewise, Guilkbert had one of the poorest performances I've ever seen, ditto El Ghazzi, Jack tried but he can't do it all, the only player who really looked like he was up for a fight was Luiz.
Smith stood and watched, where is the young tactical manager that was at Brentford? He seems to have assembled a squad of players with no backbone, who cannot comprehend that you can't play unless you win the ball, and if you change it we haven't the type of players re. Sheffield United.
This manager assembled this squad, which we all know is weak, and unless something changes we are going down, with a whimper.
Shane Long FFS terrorised our defence!
I think players like Hutton and even Chester woukld have given him a whack or two, but he and Ings had the freedom of our defence, we conceded on average 25 shots per game...how the frig are we going to win a game like that!!!!
For FFS Smith tighten up our team somehow (ie three at the back, play for some clean sheets to build confidence) or we are doomed to relegation.
Rant over
I’d really like to take issue with this. Sadly, I can’t.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
Agree smith and his team have responsibility of course and he made glaring errors yesterday, Grealish on the left, been well covered already. But whilst I think he is culpable in terms of using one formation, I’m not sure he has massive choices in terms of players. He’s swapping trez and rl ghazi regularly, same as Nakamba, Luiz and hourihane. Ok he can drop Wes for Kodja, but honestly if we’re looking at Kodja as our saviour, we’re relegated.
My main point is, no matter what Smiths good and bad points/tactics are, players not tracking back or putting in 100% effort is down to them. McGinn however good or bad never stops trying, same as Guilbert, Grealish and Mings. Can the same be said for a Luiz, El Ghazi and numerous others
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
Agree smith and his team have responsibility of course and he made glaring errors yesterday, Grealish on the left, been well covered already. But whilst I think he is culpable in terms of using one formation, I’m not sure he has massive choices in terms of players. He’s swapping trez and rl ghazi regularly, same as Nakamba, Luiz and hourihane. Ok he can drop Wes for Kodja, but honestly if we’re looking at Kodja as our saviour, we’re relegated.
My main point is, no matter what Smiths good and bad points/tactics are, players not tracking back or putting in 100% effort is down to them. McGinn however good or bad never stops trying, same as Guilbert, Grealish and Mings. Can the same be said for a Luiz, El Ghazi and numerous others
Yes he does keep swapping them and its not working so you would think at this point changing the shape might be an option ?
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Some serious work to be done on the training ground.
I don’t want to repeat much of what is said above but the squad recruitment in the summer did not provide us with pace and power. Nor do we seem to have many leaders. I said after Arsenal that we have a soft underbelly and that softness is becoming more visible by the week.
I am genuinely concerned now as I see no changes in personnel that will improve us. It has to come from formation / tactics and desire from the players themselves.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
Earlier in the season there was plenty of effort and energy. But as winning positions were lost due to tactical naivety and ineptitude and systems/personnel clearly were not working yet the manager kept playing it anyway, I imagine the players have lost faith in it. You could see it on Saturday. They knew it was futile as Southampton ran us ragged. I can imagine some of them thinking "why the fuck are we are not changing this if it isn't working?"
All good managers have a number of tactical options to turn to. Games change all the time, players get hurt, opponents adapt and the best managers, even with the best talent on the planet need to be able to adapt during the game. And that comes from what is worked on during the week. Right now our defending is so poor that even Wesley is scoring bucket loads in training. It's the only reason I can think he keeps getting selected.
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I think the players bear some responsibility, of course, but if they're regularly turning in such poor performances why does the manager keep picking them? That's his fault.
This.
Earlier in the season there was plenty of effort and energy. But as winning positions were lost due to tactical naivety and ineptitude and systems/personnel clearly were not working yet the manager kept playing it anyway, I imagine the players have lost faith in it. You could see it on Saturday. They knew it was futile as Southampton ran us ragged. I can imagine some of them thinking "why the fuck are we are not changing this if it isn't working?"
All good managers have a number of tactical options to turn to. Games change all the time, players get hurt, opponents adapt and the best managers, even with the best talent on the planet need to be able to adapt during the game. And that comes from what is worked on during the week. Right now our defending is so poor that even Wesley is scoring bucket loads in training. It's the only reason I can think he keeps getting selected.
Wesley probably would score loads against our current defending
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Long time since I last posted - I just wanted to throw my two penneth into the ring.
First, I know everyone goes on about moving Jack in-field, and whilst I agree he can be more effective there, there's two things to consider. 1) he doesn't hug the touchline, he floats from that position into the middle, drops deep, switches, etc so that's a 'starting' position not where he spends most of his time necessarily and 2) when he's in the middle, he got robbed as he was closed down quicker, leading to MANY counter attacks against us which the two either side couldn't halt as they are bombing forward providing attacking options. We need to be careful of that if we do bring him into the middle again.
Secondly, we have an attacking coach. We've wanted somebody to "go for it" for many years since O'Neil (spit). My only issue here is that with the quality of teams we play (say what you want but Southampton are on a roll and it is the premier league after all) we will get found out at times and dicked, like on Saturday.
Here's what I think is wrong. Defensively, aside from the first handful of games I think we've been poor. I love Mings to death but he has directly contributed to a bunch of goals and the general "worry" factor when players are bearing down on us. He takes too much risk at times. I still want him back! Engels is unproven at this level and will have to learn fast - not his problem. Then we're on to the double-edged sword here, our Full Backs. Their attacking intent is excellent. Guilbert and Targett in the opposition half or final third is a great asset, unfortunately only one of them has any sort of recovery speed (Freddie). We are getting caught 3 on 2 so many times that I wonder whether it might be worth switching to a back 3 and using them as wing backs.
I don't know what the fix is, but I was hoping for a great defence with sporadic goals from the gang. We're getting less of each with each game and ultimately Dean has to earn his money here.
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Agree with a lot of that. Wouldn’t play 3 centre halves though.
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Agree with a lot of that. Wouldn’t play 3 centre halves though.
Not necessarily saying we should. I think we need to do something because we started the season looking decent at the back, soft in the middle and light up front but strong on the flanks. We're drifting into weak at the back, soft centred, lethargic and weak up front.
I'm sure 3 points will help, but we have to EARN that with hard work and only Nakamba gives us that in midfield now McGinn is out. Hourihane is great but a little one dimensional (not a criticism) and Douglas Luiz is a quality technical player but dwells on the ball. We need to give Lansbury a couple of games I think. We need somebody who is going to do what Delph used to; roll the midfield and transition. That's what McGinn gives us when he's not tear-arsing around trying to do everything else :D
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We've an attacking coach without attackers that are good enough in this league. That's the issue.
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We've an attacking coach without attackers. That's the issue.
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We've an attacking coach without attackers. That's the issue.
Funnily enough that's what I typed first then edited it!
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Luiz will come good, he’s technically sound but hasn’t adjusted to the pace of the game and currently wants far too much time on the ball. He gets dispossessed from both waiting for the ball to come to him and being muscled off it. He seems to shield the ball well when he can see the opposing player coming.
He just needs to work harder, it’s really up to him if he wants to because if he can’t contribute against pressing teams he isn’t going to have much of a career.
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We've an attacking coach without attackers that are good enough in this league. That's the issue.
Yeah spot on
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Look at Sheffield United: chasing down defenders, chasing lost causes, block after block, defenders doing proper defending throwing themselves in front of the ball. players challenging hard for headers, marking their men, and taking their chances, that is why they will stay up comfortably.
Look at Aston Villa: players constantly falling to the floor at the slightest challenge and holding their faces, whingening at the referee, defenders who seem to have no communication with each other, no marking from set pieces, a midfield you can drive a truck through, a centre forward who misses vital chances and cannot hold up the ball, wide players who do not get crosses into the box, overplaying in the wrong areas, a reliance on one player, not a team, serious injuiries to our most aggressive players.
After yesterday I saw Engels disintegrate from a player I thought showed promise into a jibbering wreck of a defender, Hause likewise, Guilkbert had one of the poorest performances I've ever seen, ditto El Ghazzi, Jack tried but he can't do it all, the only player who really looked like he was up for a fight was Luiz.
Smith stood and watched, where is the young tactical manager that was at Brentford? He seems to have assembled a squad of players with no backbone, who cannot comprehend that you can't play unless you win the ball, and if you change it we haven't the type of players re. Sheffield United.
This manager assembled this squad, which we all know is weak, and unless something changes we are going down, with a whimper.
Shane Long FFS terrorised our defence!
I think players like Hutton and even Chester woukld have given him a whack or two, but he and Ings had the freedom of our defence, we conceded on average 25 shots per game...how the frig are we going to win a game like that!!!!
For FFS Smith tighten up our team somehow (ie three at the back, play for some clean sheets to build confidence) or we are doomed to relegation.
Rant over
Oscar Arce,
You do yourself a disservice. That was not a rant, it was a very fair assessment of Villa’s players and manager.
Dean Smith is currently a rabbit in the headlights. There is no plan A, let alone a plan B.
He should be removed pronto and not allowed anywhere near a January transfer kitty, bearing in mind the quality of his previous purchases. Only Mings and Heaton have been above average.
It is very unlikely that Rafa Benitez is going to come to Villa, so in his absence I would go for an experienced Premiership manager like Chris Hughton before he gets snapped up elsewhere.