Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on August 07, 2016, 06:28:32 PM
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First half gash, second half not gash
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We Aston Villa'd our way to a late defeat.
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hate this game
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Absolutely gutted. This is going to be a long season
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Midfield, Midfield, Midfield, buy a midfield or we're going nowhere.
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Boot. Human face. Forever.
Right, kids?
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Well at least this season we've been spared the false dawn of an opening day away win...
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Same old rubbish nothing has changed. There is no way that lot is getting promoted.
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If Wednesday are a top side in this league we still have a chance of going up
Starting team cost us
Why not go with Green, Tshibola and Jack from ths start?
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Poor first half, much better second. Didn't deserve to lose but annoying to see us lose yet again to a late goal after a cock up. We were skanked though, how one of their players wasn't sent off is beyond me.
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Just get some new players by next weekend. Please rid us of Cissokho, Westwood and Bacuna.
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Second half we were decent. My positives were Gollini, goal apart, Ayew, and Elphick.
Unfortunately Baker, Hutton, Bacuna and Cissokho are still awful.
Gardner was rubbish.
I think there is plenty to build on from the second half, but we still need a right back, centre half, creative player and another forward.
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Undone by a mistake near the end against one of the best in the division. I'm not going to worry too much just yet, we had plenty of chances to win that game, when McCormack is fully fit and when the 2 or 3 new players come in we should be able to push on and get to where we should be. Bloody frustrating though!
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We won't get promoted with wankers like Westwood, Bacuna and Gestede on the pitch.
Buy some footballers, ffs.
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Same as last season , however loving the new skipper . Westwood ..... Why?
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Terrible performance .......... Back four reasonable ...... Midfield ....was there one? ....Attack ....see midfield
Gardner proved what I fear we knew anyway .....
Amarvi in next week
Need more bite in midfield
Striker still an urgent need
Same Monday morning as normal
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An attempt at a balanced view
First half poor, second half a lot better.
Defensive shape generally good, elphick excellent, gollini mostly good - but a bad mistake, and poor full backs
Westwood for me was a bit better than people said. Gardner bad. Tshibola a bit mixed
Bacuna actually started doing better. McCormack better second half tho should have scored
Ayew frustratingly mixed. Gestede bad but did win a couple of important flick ons
The main problem is going to be the mentality I think.
Overall, Wednesday didn't really make me think we can't compete at the top end once we get into a rhythm
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Nothing changes.
New player, new manager, new owner.
Despite all that, the 'style' of play is the same.
Lethargic, narrow, lacking guile and invention.
All huff and puff with very little quality.
The phrase all fart and no shit comes to mind, but in our case its all fart and load of shit.
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We were well on top until what i'd call a Crystal Palace moment. Inexperience by the keeper.
End of the day, you have to take your chances - McCormack had to bang that earlier.
Can someone take Grealish off corner duties, both were flighted to the edge of the box - what's the point of that
On the whole, unlucky, and we will get better
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Midfield, Midfield, Midfield, buy a midfield or we're going nowhere.
Totally agree.
On the bright side, despite playing mostly with no discernible midfield, and only trying for 45 minutes, and playing one of the toughest away fixtures in the league, we looked alright for long spells and were only undone by a goalkeeping howler when we looked totally in control.
It's a long, long season. We can still buy a midfield. it'll make it easier for ourselves if we do.
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I think RDM knows where he needs to spend.
Amavi in for Cissokho (why Cissokho gave the ball back to Gollini after a quick throw I don't know)
A right back from somewhere.
Some real steel in the middle of the park, though we looked better when Gardner went off.
Grealish/Green for Bacuna
A disappointment start but not the end of the world.
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called. Our problem is that we've got fullbacks who have no right to call themselves professionals footballers and a 9 who offers absolutely nothing. If Amavi gets fit quickly then I think we're a decent 9 and a decent right back short of being a decent side. The H&V whipping boys of Bacuna and Westwood did nothing all that wrong but I fully expect them both to be made out as the bad guys today.
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Same old rubbish nothing has changed. There is no way that lot is getting promoted.
Just one goalkeeping error - if that's what you call it, that you just can't allocate for has cost us - don't agree - I thought we did well, especially second half.
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Better second half, the two worst players on the pitch were Bannan and Gardner. Right then RDM get the midfield sorted and we may have a strong chance of going up.I thought Baker and Boon played well as a pairing, the keeper did OK apart from that one kick but we can only get better.
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So based on last season we're now going to go on a fucking amazing run were by we win almost every game.
In all seriousness though, Cissokho is very very shit, why was he even giving the ball back to Golini (who looked solid, that kick aside)? Just fucking get rid of it you clown.
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Just get some new players by next weekend. Please rid us of Cissokho, Westwood and Bacuna.
Agreed.
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I do agree about the midfield. We got better when we just bypassed it and played straight to our wide players or forwards
I don't think Westwood was as bad as people are saying personally. Gardner was.
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Luckily in this division we have a match every six hours, so we go again.
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Still a lot of work to do but we should have enough to stop up.
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We were the better team 2nd half. Keeper looks good apart from the obvious gaffe. We can still go up this season of we buy a midfield and a fullback.
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When are we going to turn the corner? Early days but we need to play better otherwise VP is going to be awful. My eldest is 5 and I really hoped to take him to a few more games this season to get him into it.
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Definitely need new faces in this side, but i think there looks a good base to work from. We deserved something from the game, but ultimately its a defeat.
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Sam the mouse, 100% agree
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We missed our one on one and they scored theirs. Fine margins but I thought we were good in the second half.
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Hutchinson for them could have been booked 3 times or twice and sent off once at least. The way it is with us at the moment I'm just surprised he didn't score the winner
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Westwood seemed the only one prepared to shoot today ..........
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As well as a terrible clearance kick by Gollini it was a terrible throw to Cissokho and then a terrible pass by said full back. Amateurs.
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Did slightly better than i predicted. Shows where I think we are really - an average lower mid-table championship team who aren't gonna win much away. People have to realise we finished 15+ points behind Norwich who look much better than us already. going to take half the season before we see an big improvement if and when new players come in. . Hopefully this will strengthen RDM's hands to get the players he needs.
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Gotta love how Bacuna and Westwood get slaughtered as usual despite Gardner being comfortably the worst player on either side and both, Bacuna especially, were involved in nearly everything good we did in attack.
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Hutton, Bacuna, Cissokho, Gardner not good enough. Westwood is ok for the squad as is Gestede. McCormack looked decent despite lack of sharpness, Ayew looked good as did Baker. Like Elphick - we finally have a leader. Grealish needs to be given a chance and I'm sure he will. Lots of changes still needed in what I feel will be a transition season.
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As I said beforehand, it's quite hard to see how you get ayew, grealish and McCormack into the same side. We even had to sacrifice ayew a bit today, though grealish was on the bench
I thought green looked quite good when he came on
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On the whole we did ok...weak links were Gardner and our fullbacks.
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Just get some new players by next weekend. Please rid us of Cissokho, Westwood and Bacuna.
This this and this ...
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And if Wednesday are one of the best sides in the division we don't have too much to worry about, they were crap apart from Forestieri.
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First game no need to panic - if that's the best team in the league I honestly fancy us to be there or thereabouts.
However two or three obvious weaknesses - full back central mid and centre forward. Fix those and we will be fine.
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On the whole we did ok...weak links were Gardner and our fullbacks.
and Gestede, easy to miss him though because his name barely got mentioned.
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Really enjoyed the second half. Very fluid.
Need a bit of steel in midfield.
Need to fucking shoot rather than look for the player who may be in the best position too.
Signed and sealed by non-Villa supporters in my local.
7/10
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Just get some new players by next weekend. Please rid us of Cissokho, Westwood and Bacuna.
You share my thoughts. Theyre absolute ******
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Bacuna did fuck all. At least Westwood had a shot or 2 and yes, Gardner was poor.
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I thought Dr Tony was exaggerating when he said we still needed 8 players. We may just.
First half was poor. Second half we improved but we shot ourselves in the foot.
Gollini played well but let himself down with a schoolboy error. I think we could do with a more experienced keeper to compete with him, should he make a habit of it. Bunn isn't that man.
Hutton and Cissokho need replacing.
If we're after Jedinak, he needs to come in pretty sharpish. Our midfield is crying out for a bit of quality and experience. Westwood won't do it as a starting player. He's okay as a back up. Gardner is far too slow. Tish looks decent but at the same time he made a handful of dreadful errors which might have cost us more. Again. Young, inexperienced. You don't want him starting every game just yet.
Bacuna I thought actually played quite well overall. I'd still like to see him replaced though.
Gestede will be fine as an impact player, but we need an out and out front man up to play ahead of RM, with a bit of pace. Hernandez perhaps or Kodija.
McCormack looks a clever player. Picks up good positions. A couple of times I felt he hesitated and then looked for the pass when he really should have taken the shot on early. Don't worry about appeasing your new team-mates, just get shots away.
Ayew played well but frequently made the wrong decision. He puts us in danger sometimes but the pros outweigh the cons. He needs to play more centrally to get more of the ball.
Elphick was our best player by far. Like his attitude.
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Hutton, Bacuna, Cissokho, Gardner not good enough. Westwood is ok for the squad as is Gestede. McCormack looked decent despite lack of sharpness, Ayew looked good as did Baker. Like Elphick - we finally have a leader. Grealish needs to be given a chance and I'm sure he will. Lots of changes still needed in what I feel will be a transition season.
Second half bacuna was much better I agree
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The biggest problem for me was once again after we'd conceeded the collective heads dropped, that last 10 minutes should of been siege mentality by us were by we throw everything forward and bombard there box, instead we just watched as Sheffield Wednesday played the ball around calmly. That mentality has to go rapidly.
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We played 93 minutes and didn't score a single goal, the performance however it looked wasn't good enough.
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Gary Gardner. If I hear about how much potential he's got because he's a local lad again I'll scream. Not good enough, quite clearly. Why on fuck Gestede managed to complete 90 minutes I'll never know.
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Shit again.
Nowhere near enough changes over the summer. Rookie keeper when we needed to add to the spine. Gardener doesn't have it, kid yourselves but Forest fans said last season he wasn't very good. Bacuna, shit. Cissokho, complete donkey. Hutton, shit, cannot cross, pointless him going over the half way line. Westwood, powderpuff, slows things down, hasn't a clue. Gestede is a useless clumsy oaf who just cannot move, trotting carthorse.
We aren't going to piss the division at all, we look crap. Major surgery was needed, loads of work to go the next couple of weeks, then comes the excuse about gelling and not having a pre season together.
We lost, again, there are players who aren't good enough for this level.
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Midfield, Midfield, Midfield, buy a midfield or we're going nowhere.
Totally agree.
On the bright side, despite playing mostly with no discernible midfield, and only trying for 45 minutes, and playing one of the toughest away fixtures in the league, we looked alright for long spells and were only undone by a goalkeeping howler when we looked totally in control.
It's a long, long season. We can still buy a midfield. it'll make it easier for ourselves if we do.
You're exactly right, but I hope Robbie favours our view and see's despite the cock up costing us, the 3 in middle aren't up to, definitely not together.
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Did slightly better than i predicted. Shows where I think we are really - an average lower mid-table championship team who aren't gonna win much away. People have to realise we finished 15+ points behind Norwich who look much better than us already. going to take half the season before we see an big improvement if and when new players come in. . Hopefully this will strengthen RDM's hands to get the players he needs.
A lot of damage was done to this club over 6 years which is hard to come back from overnight. The two clubs that come down with us had more than double our points tally which tells you everything about how poor we'd become. I honestly think Westwood and co aren't even Championship material let alone PL so there's a lot of work to be done. It's still possible to go straight back up again but not with players like him in the team. Let's just hope Xia comes good and signs the players he's promised.
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and Gestede, easy to miss him though because his name barely got mentioned.
I was going to mention Gestede, but felt that we didn't play to his strengths so can't really blame him too much. If he's on the pitch we have get a cross over that beats the first defender.
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Thought Tshibola looked good. McCormack as well. Green did more with one cross than Bacuna did all match. Why no Grealish? Why Cissokho? Centre Back pair and Keeper looked alright until the goal. Should have scored a couple and if we had we'd all be really happy, as it is manageably miserable with some prospects for improvement. Would love to see RHM given a game up front against Luton.
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Cissokho was terrible.
Bacuna woke up in the second half, Gardner was ponderous and poor, Westwood anonymous (although slating him for not scoring with that volley is somewhat harsh).
The first half was dismal but the second much better.
It's not nice to lose yet again but there were definite positives to take from it.
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Gotta love how Bacuna and Westwood get slaughtered as usual despite Gardner being comfortably the worst player on either side and both, Bacuna especially, were involved in nearly everything good we did in attack.
It's a mindset. Something I'm guilty of myself sometimes, you see a player you think is no good and you spend your time watching for the slightest little mistake and then jump on it. Anything positive from the player gets overlooked because of said intense dislike. I know Bacuna and Westwood are poor players but we're stuck with them for the moment, but that mindset has to change, it's counterproductive.
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Gotta love how Bacuna and Westwood get slaughtered as usual despite Gardner being comfortably the worst player on either side and both, Bacuna especially, were involved in nearly everything good we did in attack.
I thought Gardner was much much worse than Westwood. Tshibola looked like he could be good if he cuts out careless mistakes.
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I wish we'd get out of this mentality of passing back to our keeper so much too. They're going to make a mistake because goalkeepers can't play football.
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No wins in 6 months? I just find it ridiculous we always seem to find a way of losing. Another costly error and by one of the newbies.
A draw today would have set us up nicely
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Need a proper centre forward for Ross and Ayew to play off. Gestede just isn't acceptable.
Cissokho needs to fuck the fuck off. Gardner was poor and Westwood was mediocre (I agree Paul that he didn't do much wrong, but we are Aston Villa, we shouldn't settle for players who merely don't do much wrong)
Bacuna actually played quite well in the second half after being nowhere in the first.
Elphick looked good and a leader.
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called
Sorry, but in my opinion you are incorrect
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When will we learn that pissing around in front of our own penalty box just raises the chances of making stupid errors, for the one that we conceded today I dont blame Gollini 100%- it should have been in the opposition half 30 seconds before. Once again Villa snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory. On a more positive side I do see two or three players making a real positive difference to this side but one should be a centre forward who can control the ball and hold up play to bring other players in.
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called
Sorry, but in my opinion you are incorrect
Has to be a wind up, just has to be!!
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It's the curse of the clean slate. We knew what our problems are last Christmas. Useless full backs, paperweight, ineffective midfield and lack of goals from our "strikers". But here comes a new owner, and a new manager and new coaching staff so everybody gets a clean slate. We play a few games, expose all the old failings and the rubbish players are identified. Problem is it's nearly Christmas again.
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How can Cissokho be a footballer? How? The bloke simply can't control a football. It's like an owl pretending to be a fish.
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I wish we'd get out of this mentality of passing back to our keeper so much too. They're going to make a mistake because goalkeepers can't play football.
Yep, there were a few times we played it back in tight positions, no matter how good your keeper is with his feet, every player on the planet miskicks occasionally so it's just asking for trouble.
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On the whole we did ok...weak links were Gardner and our fullbacks.
and Gestede, easy to miss him though because his name barely got mentioned.
Gestede may as well have stopped on the team bus. No contribution at all.
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Did I hear our fans singing "you're fucking shit" to Bacuna when he was trying to get the ball back for a corner?
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To all the Villa fans that went- fantastic performance, on the TV the Villa support sounded incredible.
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Some of the same old problems, some reasons for optimism. You don't get over 6 years of shit in one summer. 3 or 4 signings and a bit of time to gel and we'll be fine.
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I'd like to see Grealish and Green start wednesday, with a mind to starting saturday. Grealish is a canny player. He wins freekicks, which will be very useful in this division. We need a bit of guile. I don't think Ayew will create enough as a left winger. I'd rather he was more central to get on the end of chances of to run at defenders in more dangerous areas.
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go get Barry.
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I honestly don't hold Gollini responsible (or more accurately I don't give him the bigger share of responsibility) for the mistake, Cissokho fucking about in the corner and giving it to Gollini to bail himself out was the bigger issue for me. Yes Gollini's kick was poor but he really shouldn't have been given the ball at that point.
A few people have slated Gardner (and he was poor) but Cissokho was easily the worst player on the pitch, no idea how he's ahead of Bennett let alone Amavi.
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Very average first half, much better second half, defensive cock up costs us again. Full backs need to change, at least one will. Gardner too slow, Gestede the same. Better striker on board, Grealish and Tshibola to start and we should do ok this season, wasn't really impressed with Wednesday and they are supposedly a dark horse. UTV.
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Some of the same old problems, some reasons for optimism. You don't get over 6 years of shit in one summer. 3 or 4 signings and a bit of time to gel and we'll be fine.
I keep hearing this "we'll be fine" or a certain player will be "fine in the championship" from lots of people. But what does it actually mean?
The only "fine" i'd be happy with is promotion.
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Thought we were poor first half thanks to the midfield with Gardner having a mare.
Much better second half, created plenty and really should have won. Sheffield Wednesday seemed to drop deeper and never looked like scoring from open play.
Typical Villa with a ridiculous error to gift the opposition three points.
I thought the standard of Wednesday was dire. There's no quality in this league.
McCormack second half offered a lot of good movement and should have buried his chance.
Should have had a stick on penalty for the most blatant of shirt pulls on Baker and they should have had their centre half; how he wasn't booked for pulling McCormack back I don't know.
Got to get the balance right. More pace and legs in the middle. Westwood actually looked decent second half. Equally we need more pace. Hutton caused a lot of problems while Green did too.
Amavi must come back in. Cissokho hindered us massively.
Really frustrating.
A note to their small time support. They were carrying on like they'd won the league the Mickey Mouse twats.
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I thought the standard of Wednesday was dire. There's no quality in this league.
Yet we still lost !
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I honestly don't hold Gollini responsible (or more accurately I don't give him the bigger share of responsibility) for the mistake, Cissokho fucking about in the corner and giving it to Gollini to bail himself out was the bigger issue for me. Yes Gollini's kick was poor but he really shouldn't have been given the ball at that point.
A few people have slated Gardner (and he was poor) but Cissokho was easily the worst player on the pitch, no idea how he's ahead of Bennett let alone Amavi.
Oh without question. Dire. He looks like PS1 animation. Hideously ungainly and looks as bewildered by a football as it's possible to look. You could go into the deepest depths of the Amazon, find a tribe untouched by the outside world and kick a ball at one of them and they'd trap it with more ease than Aly.
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We played reasonably well, ultimately I don't think we'll win many games with Aly cissoko and Alan Hutton as our fullbacks. They can't deliver.
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Losing by an odd goal away to one of the apparent promotion favourites isn't the end of the world, and if we start games like we played in the second half I think we'll do OK this season. Priorities for me are a no-nonsense dominant midfielder - someone with Elphick's attitude and application - a proper number 9 striker (if we don't play to Gestede's supposed strengths there's simply no point playing him), and a right back, (with Amavi coming in at left back). If we continue to play the likes of Cissokho, Hutton, Bacuna, Westwood and Gestede we'll simply be the same shit playing in a lower league
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If that chance McCormack had, had come in the first half, he buries it for me. By the time he got that opportunity I thought he was breathing out his ass.
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Gollum just said there's no one better than Hutton......!
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If Richards could be bothered he's better than Hutton for starters.
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A note to their small time support. They were carrying on like they'd won the league the Mickey Mouse twats.
As every team that beats us this season will (and there will be a few). We're a cup final home or away.
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Gollum hasn't been too bad post match.
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The second half was much better, and is the first time in ages that we have actually dominated a game for a long period of the game. We just need more quality in midfield, and to replace the absolutely hopeless Cissokho. Even Bennett can't be as bad as him, he's a worse football player than Gestede, if such a thing is possible.
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Two very winnable home games next in the league
Need to set up properly and cut out the mistakes and I'm still optimistic we can win them both. I'm assuming we'll have a couple of players in soon
Wednesday only lost two games at home last season and we should have won that with our chances and given the shit reffing
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I'd definitely be starting Bennett at Luton, and hopefully have Amavi fit for Rotherham.
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I'd definitely be starting Bennett at Luton, and hopefully have Amavi fit for Rotherham.
Same here.
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Two very winnable home games next in the league
Need to set up properly and cut out the mistakes and I'm still optimistic we can win them both. I'm assuming we'll have a couple of players in soon
Wednesday only lost two games at home last season and we should have won that with our chances and given the shit reffing
For me the next two league games will tell us more than today, about whether we're heading in the right direction.
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The second half was much better, and is the first time in ages that we have actually dominated a game for a long period of the game. We just need more quality in midfield, and to replace the absolutely hopeless Cissokho. Even Bennett can't be as bad as him, he's a worse football player than Gestede, if such a thing is possible.
I agree entirely.
Worth pointing out also that Wednesday are meant to be one of the best teams in the division.
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Another frustrating afternoon.
First half was awful but, even having said that, Wednesday created very little and actually created more on the break in the second half, which we will probably need to be aware of this season given that you would hope we will be on top in 9 out of 10 matches.
Overall, the full backs were dreadful, especially Cissokho. Elphick and Baker did OK with Elphick looking a real leader. I was quite impressed with Gollini, error aside.
The midfield is where the main issue lies. Westwood is passable at this level and did OK in the second half but Gardner was dreadful and far too slow. You certainly can't play both him and Westwood and, at the moment, Westwood is better (which says it all really).
Bacuna did OK in the second half and will probably prove useful in the squad - we can't get rid of everyone!
Gestede, though, is a complete and utter waste of space. Play ayew, RM, grealish, traore/a new signing up there and we would cause nearly every team problem.
Overall, probably what I expected and signs for optimism but a lot of hard work to do. Playoffs will be a decent season.
Need to buy a right back, centre mid, creative player with pace as a matter of urgency.
Sell kozak, Richards, lescott, Cissokho but I can't believe anyone would want them.
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For me the fact that we don't have decent midfielders was the cause of our issues today. Cissokho shouldn't have played Gollini into trouble but he had no other options on! We were bossed in the first half until their changes and then grew into it but had we some stronger players in midfield we could bring our forwards into it more.
Ayew and Elphick were our standouts while Gardner was very disappointing for me.
Big credit to Sheffield Wednesday who were excellent, as were their fans. That Foristieri was brilliant.
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Considering the barely healed scar tissue, and the fact that wasn't our best side (albeit probably our fittest), that wasn't too bad. Yes Cissokho's attacking is painful, yes Gardner is slower than me, and yes it was a piainful error to change need the goal, but so many comments about Bacuna and Westwood et al. seem to be default positions from last year.
Would have helped if the Ref had sent Hutchinson off as he should have mind
Slot Amalvi, Tshibola in and we will look better.
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Post match analysis on sky was weird compared to the Newcastle v Fulham game. Apparently we don't have players that can scrap etc. and some hyperbole about Di Matteo going to bed and hiding under the covers, our problems from last season continuing despite losing narrowly, creating several chances and should have had a penalty.
Newcastle's loss was simply glossed over as a bad day at the office for the inevitable champions 🤔. They may well be champions at the end of the season (and looking at their spend, squad and manager they probably should be) but it's surprising how they are seemingly getting different treatment already.
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Another frustrating afternoon.
First half was awful but, even having said that, Wednesday created very little and actually created more on the break in the second half, which we will probably need to be aware of this season given that you would hope we will be on top in 9 out of 10 matches.
Overall, the full backs were dreadful, especially Cissokho. Elphick and Baker did OK with Elphick looking a real leader. I was quite impressed with Gollini, error aside.
The midfield is where the main issue lies. Westwood is passable at this level and did OK in the second half but Gardner was dreadful and far too slow. You certainly can't play both him and Westwood and, at the moment, Westwood is better (which says it all really).
Bacuna did OK in the second half and will probably prove useful in the squad - we can't get rid of everyone!
Gestede, though, is a complete and utter waste of space. Play ayew, RM, grealish, traore/a new signing up there and we would cause nearly every team problem.
Overall, probably what I expected and signs for optimism but a lot of hard work to do. Playoffs will be a decent season.
Need to buy a right back, centre mid, creative player with pace as a matter of urgency.
Sell kozak, Richards, lescott, Cissokho but I can't believe anyone would want them.
Agree with every word of that
Though I do think there's a risk the pressure at VP could get onto the players if we're not immediately on it v Rotherham
Could do without the Luton game as that looks like a potential embarrassment to me
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Terrible performance .......... Back four reasonable ...... Midfield ....was there one? ....Attack ....see midfield
Gardner proved what I fear we knew anyway .....
Amarvi in next week
Need more bite in midfield
Striker still an urgent need
Same Monday morning as normal
No, poor in first half but dominated second half. 0-0 would've been about right on the balance of play. Stupid error self-inflicted.
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Did I hear our fans singing "you're fucking shit" to Bacuna when he was trying to get the ball back for a corner?
You did
He was on the verge of replying with one of his infamous grins and then thought better of it. Dont like him but singing that isnt going to help
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Only just seen the goal but bloody hell thats unlucky even by our standards.
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It,s not the hope that kills you but the fuck ups....why oh why do we always gift the opposition a goal...charity Villa should be our name..the opposition don't need to create chances as they know we will come bearing gifts...how do we stop the mistakes....how ?
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Gardner is so slow. Didn't deserve to lose but didn't deserve to win either. I won't panic yet but must do better
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One reason we played better second half too was getting the ball wider and getting crosses in. The fullbacks pushed on a bit more, Bacuna played wider and was probably creating the majority of our chances. If we had fullbacks who could deliver, we'd get more joy.
But we've got to start playing with more width from our midfield and attack. Not just counting on the fullbacks. That goes a long way in this division too.
Grealish on the left with Amavi overlapping would destroy this division.
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Only just seen the goal but bloody hell thats unlucky even by our standards.
Yeah, really unlucky that Cissokho needlessly played the ball back to Gollini. And really unlucky that Gollini made a right hash of the clearance ;)
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Ref bottled the Hutchinson foul on Hutton which was early in the second-half. Those decisions are crucial. Ref was rubbish - Baker should've got a penalty for blatant shirt pulling on that corner. No help at all from shite officials.
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Gutted. 2nd half really promising but one mistake from otherwise excellent keeper costs us the game. Very frustrating. Ayew class in parts and selfish prick in others. Gestede needs to put himself about more, did nothing all game up until his header on goal and set up for McComack. Midfield bit of worry, Westwood contributes absolutely nothing. Thought Bacuna wasn't too bad. Elphick looked solid.
First time in ages defeat has actually hurt but that's expectation I guess. Gutted but hopefully Saturday will be better.
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Post match analysis on sky was weird compared to the Newcastle v Fulham game. Apparently we don't have players that can scrap etc. and some hyperbole about Di Matteo going to bed and hiding under the covers, our problems from last season continuing despite losing narrowly, creating several chances and should have had a penalty.
Newcastle's loss was simply glossed over as a bad day at the office for the inevitable champions 🤔. They may well be champions at the end of the season (and looking at their spend, squad and manager they probably should be) but it's surprising how they are seemingly getting different treatment already.
We played a lot better than Newcastle did in Friday I think.
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Poor first half, much better second. Didn't deserve to lose but annoying to see us lose yet again to a late goal after a cock up. We were skanked though, how one of their players wasn't sent off is beyond me.
This man talks sense.
First half was rubbish - second half we blew them away. We should have had a penalty, Hutchinson should have been sent off, and their goal was from a shite clearance.
If Wednesday are one of the top three sides in this league, then I'm not too worried. We utterly dominated them in the second half.
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Ref bottled the Hutchinson foul on Hutton which was early in the second-half. Those decisions are crucial. Ref was rubbish - Baker should've got a penalty for blatant shirt pulling on that corner. No help at all from shite officials.
Hutchinson could have gone several times.
Mind you Gardner had 4-5 fouls which would have been a nailed on yellow in the Prem. Officials are even shitter and more inconsistent at this level than the top flight.
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Ball could have gone anywhere when Gollini kicks it then a bit of ping pong off Elphick falling straight to them.
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"We'll smash 'em"
Still too many losers in this team. Poor game, poor quality and we desperately need another 4 signings...and some people who can actually play football in midfield.
Until then we're not serious about promotion.
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Post match analysis on sky was weird compared to the Newcastle v Fulham game. Apparently we don't have players that can scrap etc. and some hyperbole about Di Matteo going to bed and hiding under the covers, our problems from last season continuing despite losing narrowly, creating several chances and should have had a penalty.
Newcastle's loss was simply glossed over as a bad day at the office for the inevitable champions 🤔. They may well be champions at the end of the season (and looking at their spend, squad and manager they probably should be) but it's surprising how they are seemingly getting different treatment already.
We played a lot better than Newcastle did in Friday I think.
Correct - Newcastle were very, very poor against Fulham. We looked way better than they did.
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Did I hear our fans singing "you're fucking shit" to Bacuna when he was trying to get the ball back for a corner?
You did
He was on the verge of replying with one of his infamous grins and then thought better of it. Dont like him but singing that isnt going to help
Really? Our away fans are great but on the first day of the season that's really not helpful. That sort of atmosphere is one of the biggest threats to us
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Ball could have gone anywhere when Gollini kicks it then a bit of ping pong off Elphick falling straight to them.
We surely can't bemoan that though, when we've made two awful errors in the lead up to it. Don't deserve luck after doing that.
Where we were unlucky, was their left back not being sent off / giving away a penalty
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Bacuna was one of our best players today I thought. Dunno if that is a good or bad thing!
Gestede was Gestede. Ayew was disappointing and McCormack should've buried that chance in second half. Rest were as you were.
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Maybe RDM needed to see some of these awful players in proper competitive action before judging them properly? Now he can see for himself just how ineffective some of them are and that they need replacing. I still don't think we have found our level and the only way we will avoid further heartache is to buy our way out of it. Jedinak and Kodjia/Hernandez will be a start. For me, I cannot get past the thought process that Bacuna, Westwood, Hutton, Baker, Gestede and Cissokho are not going to take us forward and will only help us bottom out to the level of top 10 championship side. Why the hell we didn't start with our strongest team is beyond me, unless my first sentence rings true.
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Second half we played well but needed to capitalize on some of these chances. Is it just me or do we get no luck...penalty, sending off, poor clearance but it bobbled off him and a defender right into his path...
Amavi will be in, we know that. Westwood and Gardner were poor and just offer nothing. Tish looked decent when he came on. Ayew could run riot in this league...I would have loved to see what Adama's pace could have done to them in the second half.
Gestede can't play unless we have wide players pinging balls into him constantly. McCormack looked decent...
If these are one of the top teams...I'm not getting too worked up just yet...lets win a few, get to the end of August, then crack on...the tide will turn
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Couple of occasions where Ayew beat defenders for pace and looked class but on the down side there were a couple of occasions where he was holding onto the ball and trying to beat too many players when a simpler pass was on. And his "shot" at the near post was greedy, as some have said he should have passed to someone else.
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I liked the look of Grealish when he came on, seemed to have some fire in his belly. Elphick looks like the sort of run through a brick wall leader that we really need. Still, a defeat and some worrying reminders of last season. More players needed.
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Bacuna was one of our best players today I thought. Dunno if that is a good or bad thing!
Gestede was Gestede. Ayew was disappointing and McCormack should've buried that chance in second half. Rest were as you were.
Bacuna looked ok going forward. I also thought Baker did ok...actually he pinged more forward accurate passes than Westwood has in years..2 I think !!
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Baker had a very strong game i thought, pleased for him.
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Biggest problem RDM has got is one he probably shared with Black and Garde, in that he hasn't got any choice in selection. I clearly don't think he rates most of the players remaining from last season but what do you do? You're supposed to buy new players to intigrate with the existing ones but what if the existing are unusable? People keep suggesting players who should be starting but barring injuries/fitness he seems to have come to a similar conclusion as the other incumbants. I don't see Grealish,Traore etc.. being the answer
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I'm on holiday in Tenerife. A quiet bar in a quiet town, yet even here, a father and son duo in Birmingham City shirts feel fit to turn up and cheer and dance at us conceding a goal. What the fuck is the matter with these people?
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And if Wednesday are one of the best sides in the division we don't have too much to worry about, they were crap apart from Forestieri.
An hour later I'm thinking the same. Given we are expecting a few more bodies in given they are a settled side pushing for promotion I think we will win more than we lose this year.
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Bacuna was one of our best players today I thought. Dunno if that is a good or bad thing!
Gestede was Gestede. Ayew was disappointing and McCormack should've buried that chance in second half. Rest were as you were.
Bacuna looked ok going forward. I also thought Baker did ok...actually he pinged more forward accurate passes than Westwood has in years..2 I think !!
Trouble is that so many fans won't trust them after the way the likes of Bacuna took the piss out of us last season. Trust has to be earned, though he did look ok.
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I'm on holiday in Tenerife. A quiet bar in a quiet town, yet even here, a father and son duo in Birmingham City shirts feel fit to turn up and cheer and dance at us conceding a goal. What the fuck is the matter with these people?
They live and breath us and it's always been the same.
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Another who thought Bacuna did well. I don't understand why he gets the ire he does. The Champions League comments were someone asking if a club came in would he consider it, he said yes, as they all would. That and he smiles seem to be the main criticism of him.
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Bacuna was one of our best players today I thought. Dunno if that is a good or bad thing!
Gestede was Gestede. Ayew was disappointing and McCormack should've buried that chance in second half. Rest were as you were.
Bacuna was one of our best players today I thought. Dunno if that is a good or bad thing!
Gestede was Gestede. Ayew was disappointing and McCormack should've buried that chance in second half. Rest were as you were.
Bacuna looked ok going forward. I also thought Baker did ok...actually he pinged more forward accurate passes than Westwood has in years..2 I think !!
Trouble is that so many fans won't trust them after the way the likes of Bacuna took the piss out of us last season. Trust has to be earned, though he did look ok.
Bacuna looked ok going forward. I also thought Baker did ok...actually he pinged more forward accurate passes than Westwood has in years..2 I think !!
Trouble is that so many fans won't trust them after the way the likes of Bacuna took the piss out of us last season. Trust has to be earned, though he did look ok.
String a few wins together and Bacuna plays well and puts a shift in, then all will be forgotten pretty quickly.
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Solutions to some of the problems are already in the squad. I still stand by that we need four more to go up automatically, but pace was a major issue.
Disagree with criticism of Hutton. Him pushing on caused them all sorts of problems. Amavi at full back, the impressive Green over the (actually quite decent second half) Bacuna and Tshibola for some legs and physicality in the middle.
Hutchinson is a snidey ****** who should have walked.
Deserved at least a point after dominating Championship wonder side Wednesday but it's galling for the self inflicted error to be the difference. Fucking Baker should have buried the equaliser anyway.
If that game was in a months time we win it.
I said that today was inconsequential as a bell weather; Rotherham and Huddersfield are crucial to show change.
With more players to come in and with some promising signs second half I feel we've got a good chance of picking up six points.
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Solutions to some of the problems are already in the squad. I still stand by that we need four more to go up automatically, but pace was a major issue.
Disagree with criticism of Hutton. Him pushing on caused them all sorts of problems. Amavi at full back, the impressive Green over the (actually quite decent second half) Bacuna and Tshibola for some legs and physicality in the middle.
Hutchinson is a snidey c*** who should have walked.
Deserved at least a point after dominating Championship wonder side Wednesday but it's galling for the self inflicted error to be the difference. Fucking Baker should have buried the equaliser anyway.
If that game was in a months time we win it.
I said that today was inconsequential as a bell weather; Rotherham and Huddersfield are crucial to show change.
With more players to come in and with some promising signs second half I feel we've got a good chance of picking up six points.
We should be beating Rotherham and Huddersfield comfortably at home, even in our current state
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called
Sorry, but in my opinion you are incorrect
The midfield is definitely the problem and has been for some time. Lack of movement in attack and poor fullbacks doesn't help. But there is very little leadership, guile or nous in that midfield. Less so even than last season with the sale of Gana, and he was no great shakes. We desperately need a central midfielder who can control the game, crucially leading in terms of both tempo and movement. We haven't had that since Stan and before him Barry.
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Saw the starting line up, hated it but thought 'new season get behind em all' as you do. Knew it wouldn't work of course
First half was largely garbage, due to having no seemingly obvious formation or style of play. Looked totally unhinged. Having three strikers in a starting eleven away at one of the better teams just confused me. And the continual (after pre season) plan of playing Gestede without any decent crosses coming into the box worked as expected. I think I recall one decent touch from him (the flick on for McCormack) in the entire 90 minutes. He's an absolute passenger and just detracts from the rest of the side to my mind.
Both full backs are, were and always will be woeful. Westwood and Gardner looked anonymous and Bacuna did his usual bit of everything routine. Ayew was lazy tracking runners first half but got into the game a bit more as it went on.
Second half was better, seemed more urgency and we played a few bits of decent football along the way.
One thing i've always hated in football is the keeper to full back, full back to keeper arsing about nonsense. For that's exactly what it is. NONSENSE. And it always asks for trouble due to an error, whether the error is bad luck or not. Don't put yourselves in the position where the error can happen in the first place. Basic basic stuff.
Overall, I think we did enough for a point, and didn't look out of place against a good side.
We move on, but i wont be best pleased if the same dickheads get picked again in the week. They must be removed from the first team now
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Well some consolation in that a lot of Weds fans saying they were lucky to come out of that with a win...not my claret tinted glasses then.
You can see the difference in the leagues. If we'd have been that poor in the first half against anyone in the prem then we'd have been 3 down last season..as it was they barely had a shot in target.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
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Lot of promising signs second half. If we can get another 3 or 4 in, in the positions everyone here is agreeing on, then we need to scrape a couple of wins. The new players and some of the old ones will be transformed IMO if they can generate some confidence.
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It was refreshing to see out first half injury time without conceding and then to come out second half and not get hit by a second within minutes of the restart - well done lads.
If they're one of the promotion hopefuls we'll have this wrapped up by Easter.
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No overreaction from me, thought we did OK especially second half. Too many passengers though; Hutton, Cissokho, Bacuna, Westwood, Gardner could easily be replaced.
Elphick looks good and a real leader.
Get Amavi in and a few signings and we'll be fine. Sheffield Wednesday were play off finalists last year and were bang average.
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The new players looked promising. There just weren't enough of them.
Also, playing with Gestede is pointless with our current squad. If we are going to persist with him, then we absolutely need some natural width and crossing ability.
Personally, I'd rather have seen Ayew played centrally, as he's a defensive liability out wide and never tracks his man.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
SH sorry I was quite wrong we drew 0-0 with the Geordies to 'halt' the run.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
What's the point in even thinking about it, though?
Last year was fucking hideous. It was a comedy relegation, so shit was our points tally, but there is absolutely zero point in wasting time thinking about anything that carries over the shite of last season.
Why bother? Life's too short and watching Villa is testing enough as it is without banging on about things we can't change.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
If it was based on just today and you'd have a point. The fans have good memories though and last season still lingers in there. That's why players like him are quickly picked on.
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I liked the look of Grealish when he came on, seemed to have some fire in his belly. Elphick looks like the sort of run through a brick wall leader that we really need. Still, a defeat and some worrying reminders of last season. More players needed.
Elphick reminds me of Steve Walsh Leicester centre half of the seventies or possibly a certain Chelsea captain. Footballers who do not believe in the word defeat. Its an admirable trait.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
SH sorry I was quite wrong we drew 0-0 with the Geordies to 'halt' the run.
I'd totally forgotten about that.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
What's the point in even thinking about it, though?
Last year was fucking hideous. It was a comedy relegation, so shit was our points tally, but there is absolutely zero point in wasting time thinking about anything that carries over the shite of last season.
Why bother? Life's too short and watching Villa is testing enough as it is without banging on about things we can't change.
I didn't think about it till I saw the post. Turns out the Newcastle 0-0 stopped the rot anyway.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
If it was based on just today and you'd have a point. The fans have good memories though and last season still lingers in there. That's why players like him are quickly picked on.
If it was our fans, then I just cannot understand in any way the point of doing it during a match when the blokes out there trying to do his job for the team.
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Not too many results like today last season anyway. Or rather performances where we were actually didn't deserve to get beat.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
Can't be with the Newcastle 0-0.
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Not too many results like today last season anyway. Or rather performances where we were actually didn't deserve to get beat.
Agreed. Every game I saw us lose last season I thought we thoroughly deserved to lose. Today I think we should have at least got a point. It's a start I suppose.
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I thought Bacuna had a decent game, as did our central defenders. Cissoko just looks clumsy and gormless, Amavi must start next weekend.
Gestarde annoys me so much, for a tall man he hardly ever wins an arial challenge, the one time he did, Macormack couldn't finish. I would play Mac and Ayew up front with Grealish just behind.
I'm not too disheartened, it was a tough place to go first up and we matched them in every way but the result.
The frustrating thing was I was about to post on the match thread how great it was that our keeper looked so assured with his kicking compared to the nightmare of Guzan. Doh!
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I thought Bacuna had a decent game, as did our central defenders. Cissoko just looks clumsy and gormless, Amavi must start next weekend.
Gestarde annoys me so much, for a tall man he hardly ever wins an arial challenge, the one time he did, Macormack couldn't finish. I would play Mac and Ayew up front with Grealish just behind.
HARSH! that was a top class block from their CB to my eyes.
I'm in total agreement about playing two up top in Ayew and McCormack with someone like Grealish in the 'hole' though. Playing football rather than looking to that useless lump to win a flick on every 90 minutes will be far more effective i'm sure
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Was denied entry due to me apparently being intoxicated. I don't drink as I'm on
my medication.I do appear a bit wobley at times due to 200mg of sertraline.
Stewardess couldn't give a toss and confiscated my ticket.
Police intervened and advised me to leave the area. I tried to explain but two separate coppers couldn't give a fuck.
It's not like Yorkshire has a reputation for treating fans like shit is it?
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Only saw the second half, until they scored, thought we were playing ok.
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Poor first half, much better second half. Unlucky to lose. Goalkeeping errors like that happen from time to time. Decent noise from the Wednesday fans, quite unlike the sedate Premier League aways I'm used to. Suggests every team this year will be massively up for playing us. We need to strengthen the midfield to be able to compete.
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Only saw the second half but cant understand the criticism of Westwood and Bacuna. Westwood had no partner in midfield for most of it but still kept us on the front foot for most of the second half. We got great joy down our right all second half going forward and Bacuna put in some decent balls too. Elphick looks a really solid addition at the back, Tis looks promising while McCormack's quality to drop into pockets of space stood out. Thought both Grealish and Green looked lively too, Green put in one quality ball. Up to the mistake, I thought Gollini looked quality, fast off his line, quality distribution and just the relief that playing the ball back to the keeper was not russian roulette....
Our struggles were elsewhere, Hutton pressed on well but is a diabolical defender that we need rid of. Even for their goal he was 10 yards further up the pitch that he should have been. Baker let countless balls bounce in the second half, I dont care if Hooper was putting him off, as an experienced defender he should be doing a lot better as this division is full of centre forward oafs that will be doing likewise. Cissokho is a horrendous footballer full stop. Amavi at full flight would have been in numerous times in the second half. Gardner unfortunately isnt up to it at all. Gestede was useless really, for all the crosses we put in he never looked like getting on the end of any of them, never came short to hold the ball up either. Ayew was the biggest disappointment for me, terrible game management from him. taking on players in his own half, taking the wrong option constantly. Maybe his head is elsewhere.
The opposition were poor, clown Hutchinson should have been sent off twice, stonewall penalty too. Refereeing was brutal. But what was most worrying was that we collapsed after they scored when it should have been them hanging on. Bannan was abysmal too, thought Westwood was by far the dominant midfielder on view.
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45 cup finals
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I thought Bacuna had a decent game, as did our central defenders. Cissoko just looks clumsy and gormless, Amavi must start next weekend.
Gestarde annoys me so much, for a tall man he hardly ever wins an arial challenge, the one time he did, Macormack couldn't finish. I would play Mac and Ayew up front with Grealish just behind.
HARSH! that was a top class block from their CB to my eyes.
I'm in total agreement about playing two up top in Ayew and McCormack with someone like Grealish in the 'hole' though. Playing football rather than looking to that useless lump to win a flick on every 90 minutes will be far more effective i'm sure
Gestede really should do more. I don't care if his strength is heading, he should still contribute in other ways. As it is he's doing nothing.
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Was denied entry due to me apparently being intoxicated. I don't drink as I'm on
my medication.I do appear a bit wobley at times due to 200mg of sertraline.
Stewardess couldn't give a toss and confiscated my ticket.
Police intervened and advised me to leave the area. I tried to explain but two separate coppers couldn't give a fuck.
It's not like Yorkshire has a reputation for treating fans like shit is it?
What a bunch of absolute c****. Sorry to hear that mate, I hope you're going to complain, and I hope you get compensated for such treatment.
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Poor first half, much better second half. Unlucky to lose. Goalkeeping errors like that happen from time to time. Decent noise from the Wednesday fans, quite unlike the sedate Premier League aways I'm used to. Suggests every team this year will be massively up for playing us. We need to strengthen the midfield to be able to compete.
that's the scary thought really. From being a non-entity in the premier, to being a prised scalp. Home form will be important.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
If it was based on just today and you'd have a point. The fans have good memories though and last season still lingers in there. That's why players like him are quickly picked on.
If it was our fans, then I just cannot understand in any way the point of doing it during a match when the blokes out there trying to do his job for the team.
yeah looked bad form alright, he was playing well at the time too and had just won a corner I think. He seemed to be looking with disbelief into the terrace. Not sure but I think his next contribution might have been clocking one of their players with a sneaky elbow into the head. Abusing a player like that is only hurting the team
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If we can gel soon then based on today's game this division should not hold any fears for us. Come the business end of the season we'll be there or thereabouts.
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Just get some new players by next weekend. Please rid us of Cissokho, Westwood and Bacuna.
These three were rubbish.
Relying on Baker to distribute from the back is not going to work.
We pressed well and got better through the second half.
Gardner is unreliable but certainly full of guts and commitment.
Ayew is a cut above the rest.
Gestede is a lamp-post.
We should have been ahead before the SW goal.
Green is a definite prospect - his delivery and footwork are v good.
The crowd - both sets of fans - was amazing.
It was great to be back in a right traditional football ground.
The weather was great.
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14 league defeats on the trot.
Jesus wept that's a frightening stat.
What's the point in even thinking about it, though?
Last year was fucking hideous. It was a comedy relegation, so shit was our points tally, but there is absolutely zero point in wasting time thinking about anything that carries over the shite of last season.
Why bother? Life's too short and watching Villa is testing enough as it is without banging on about things we can't change.
Yep and today whilst still being a defeat was completely different. Yes we obviously need Amavi in, a centre half, centre mid and a creative player, but we dominated the second half today. They are one of the hardest teams to beat at their place, but they were clinging on. To be honest I'd almost rather have lost in the way we did than won having been battered for the whole game. That second half performance, if built upon, will stand us in good stead.
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I thought Bacuna had a decent game, as did our central defenders. Cissoko just looks clumsy and gormless, Amavi must start next weekend.
Gestarde annoys me so much, for a tall man he hardly ever wins an arial challenge, the one time he did, Macormack couldn't finish. I would play Mac and Ayew up front with Grealish just behind.
HARSH! that was a top class block from their CB to my eyes.
I'm in total agreement about playing two up top in Ayew and McCormack with someone like Grealish in the 'hole' though. Playing football rather than looking to that useless lump to win a flick on every 90 minutes will be far more effective i'm sure
A lot of criticism (not on here) of McCormack's display, saying he's a waste of money and was invisible.
I thought - considering he's clearly not fully fit or up to speed with how we're going to play - he did quite well. He gets that chance today in a few weeks time and he scores.
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Same players, same system and same result, just in a lower league.
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McCormack played ok, apart from the 1-on-1.
Bacuna was rubbish first half; better second.
I thought Hutton played well ....
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I thought Bacuna had a decent game, as did our central defenders. Cissoko just looks clumsy and gormless, Amavi must start next weekend.
Gestarde annoys me so much, for a tall man he hardly ever wins an arial challenge, the one time he did, Macormack couldn't finish. I would play Mac and Ayew up front with Grealish just behind.
HARSH! that was a top class block from their CB to my eyes.
I'm in total agreement about playing two up top in Ayew and McCormack with someone like Grealish in the 'hole' though. Playing football rather than looking to that useless lump to win a flick on every 90 minutes will be far more effective i'm sure
A lot of criticism (not on here) of McCormack's display, saying he's a waste of money and was invisible.
I thought - considering he's clearly not fully fit or up to speed with how we're going to play - he did quite well. He gets that chance today in a few weeks time and he scores.
That sort of criticism is stupid. Once he's match fit he's shown enough to tell that he'll be a good player.
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I think today proved that certain players, even when I a lower division, just are not good enough to play week in week out. As squad fillers fine but not for the starting 11 each week. For me those players are Hutton, Cissoko, Westwood,Gardner and Bacuna.
At this point of the season I think we need to keep all of them, but upgrades are needed if we are to compete at the top end of the division.
Richards if he sorts his shit out can be a very good right back in this division, Tshbola looked like he has something to offer, and Amavi will be first choice left back when he is fully fit.
So one more decent central midfield player and a winger who can put a decent cross in and we will look a lot better.
Jedinak who has been mentioned here a few times fits the bill for midfield, not sure on the winger/right midfielder, Larsson at Sunderland can put a decent cross in but he's probably over the hill or injury prone.
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Poor first half, much better second half. Unlucky to lose. Goalkeeping errors like that happen from time to time. Decent noise from the Wednesday fans, quite unlike the sedate Premier League aways I'm used to. Suggests every team this year will be massively up for playing us. We need to strengthen the midfield to be able to compete.
Tshibola at 6'3" would be a good start! RDM needs a leader in there fast!
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Need two full backs desperately for me bacuna to right back amavi straight in next week green in place of bacuna and tshibola for Gardner.
Let's hope some of these bids get accepted and one day is a centre half
Ah well
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called
Sorry, but in my opinion you are incorrect
The midfield is definitely the problem and has been for some time. Lack of movement in attack and poor fullbacks doesn't help. But there is very little leadership, guile or nous in that midfield. Less so even than last season with the sale of Gana, and he was no great shakes. We desperately need a central midfielder who can control the game, crucially leading in terms of both tempo and movement. We haven't had that since Stan and before him Barry.
To clarify, our midfield look poor because they get totally overloaded and that happens mainly because teams trust their fullbacks to have the beating of ours at both ends. In this game we got better in midfield when we pushed Hutton and Cissokho forward and made their fullbacks hold their position but it didn't lead to chance because both of them have to take 5-6 touches and stop 2-3 times before they pass inside or cross and by then the defence are all lined up and ready to deal ith the threat. If either of them could operate at pace with the ball then we'd have won easily today.
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One day and s a centre half ??
Bloody ipad
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Did people think that the Wednesday players ability on the ball was generally superior to ours? The way they controlled it, laid it off, and generally moved it about the field. Some of our players seemed to often never completely have control of it even when it was at their feet.
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McCormack played ok, apart from the 1-on-1.
Bacuna was rubbish first half; better second.
I thought Hutton played well ....
Their player got a good block on that shot. He's been injured you gotta give him a chance. McCormack will score goals
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One of the positives. Lescott and Agbonlahor were nowhere to be seen.
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Did people think that the Wednesday players ability on the ball was generally superior to ours? The way they controlled it, laid it off, and generally moved it about the field. Some of our players seemed to often never completely have control of it even when it was at their feet.
They've been together for a good 12 months to be fair. They obviously know each others job well and are suited to how they want to play.
Hopefully as we get further into the season that well become the case for us. Yes I'm disappointed to come away with nothing, and its hard for me to argue that we should be patient, given how shit we've been for six years in a row. However, I'm more positive about our prospects now than I was a week ago.
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If we had won or took a point, it would have papered over the cracks. It showed RDM and Clarke exactly what is needed. they have 3 more weeks to get at least three more first team players in. first game, and a loooong way to go in this league.
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Did people think that the Wednesday players ability on the ball was generally superior to ours? The way they controlled it, laid it off, and generally moved it about the field. Some of our players seemed to often never completely have control of it even when it was at their feet.
I think it's a confidence issue, as we grew into the game we were superior.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
It was aimed at Bacuna and he knew it
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On 75 minutes I said regardless of the result I feel we will be there or thereabouts
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
It was aimed at Bacuna and he knew it
If that's the case it's counter productive and fucking stupid.
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Was denied entry due to me apparently being intoxicated. I don't drink as I'm on
my medication.I do appear a bit wobley at times due to 200mg of sertraline.
Stewardess couldn't give a toss and confiscated my ticket.
Police intervened and advised me to leave the area. I tried to explain but two separate coppers couldn't give a fuck.
It's not like Yorkshire has a reputation for treating fans like shit is it?
[/quote
What a bunch of absolute c****. Sorry to hear that mate, I hope you're going to complain, and I hope you get compensated for such treatment.
I have E-mailed Wednesday and will see what happens. Thanks for your reply Percy.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
Don't know if its been mentioned but Sky turned the volume down, right about then?
It was aimed at Bacuna and he knew it
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McCormack played ok, apart from the 1-on-1.
Bacuna was rubbish first half; better second.
I thought Hutton played well ....
Their player got a good block on that shot. He's been injured you gotta give him a chance. McCormack will score goals
I wasn't criticising McC. I thought he did OK.
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There was a point in the second half when we had a corner and Bacuna was shown on the telly looking confused and you could hear a chant of 'you're fucking shite' or something going on. Please tell me this wasn't from our own (loosely speaking of course) supporters ? It was right in front of our end hence the question.
I don't like the bloke, but he was far from the worst out there today to give him his due.
Don't know if its been mentioned but Sky turned the volume down, right about then?
It was aimed at Bacuna and he knew it
I was there and didn't hear that.
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I heard a lot of that chant. I thought it was Wednesday singing at us. Not us at our own player. Especially when he was actually starting to play quite well!
Do want better in there though. But at least he can cross unlike cissokho and Hutton
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The midfield isn't the problem no matter how many times it gets called
Sorry, but in my opinion you are incorrect
The midfield is definitely the problem and has been for some time. Lack of movement in attack and poor fullbacks doesn't help. But there is very little leadership, guile or nous in that midfield. Less so even than last season with the sale of Gana, and he was no great shakes. We desperately need a central midfielder who can control the game, crucially leading in terms of both tempo and movement. We haven't had that since Stan and before him Barry.
To clarify, our midfield look poor because they get totally overloaded and that happens mainly because teams trust their fullbacks to have the beating of ours at both ends. In this game we got better in midfield when we pushed Hutton and Cissokho forward and made their fullbacks hold their position but it didn't lead to chance because both of them have to take 5-6 touches and stop 2-3 times before they pass inside or cross and by then the defence are all lined up and ready to deal ith the threat. If either of them could operate at pace with the ball then we'd have won easily today.
You could equally argue that the full backs look bad because they are overloaded and got no support from the wide players in front of them. This was probably true in the case Ally Ciss, who got no support whatsoever from Ayew.
Systemic analyses are fun and all, but we just need more decent players and a midfield which can at least partially control their area of competence.
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I know slightly off topic, but that was the loudest PA I have ever heard, dangerously loud we all have blinding headaches after the game.
Oh and a missed opportunity for at least a point that puts unneeded pressure on next week
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Annoying to lose it late but overall not too distraught - I thought there were some green shoots to be seen and that coupled with the belief our squad will look vastly different by the end of the month; I think we'll be OK.
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I heard a lot of that chant. I thought it was Wednesday singing at us. Not us at our own player. Especially when he was actually starting to play quite well!
Do want better in there though. But at least he can cross unlike cissokho and Hutton
Definitely the Wednesday fans in the block nearest the away end. They were singing it most of the second half, bless 'em
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About three days ago I became 'friends' on Facebook with a lad with whom I went to primary and secondary school. He used to live a couple of doors from our house on Chelmsley Wood. I hadn't seen him since 1982 thereabouts.
I got my first message from him today, 34 years after I last spoke to him: he commented on my 'status' pointing out the I was cheering on the Villa boys at a local bar.
It read 'Boing Boing!'
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I heard a lot of that chant. I thought it was Wednesday singing at us. Not us at our own player. Especially when he was actually starting to play quite well!
Do want better in there though. But at least he can cross unlike cissokho and Hutton
Definitely the Wednesday fans in the block nearest the away end. They were singing it most of the second half, bless 'em
On my monitor, which was competing with another monitor showing the Test Match, there was a distinct South Yorkshire accent to that chant, which lasted much of the game.
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It was like playing with 8 players at times
Cissokho is fucking useless , Di Matteo has half a brain he will start Amavi or Bennett next Saturday
Gardner was woeful , we desperately need a proper central midfielder ASAP.
Gestede , zero mobility , as usual.
Brighter second half , but their passing and movement was far superior to ours - I suppose their squad is far more settled than ours , for obvious reasons.
Thought a draw would have been a fair result .
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Did people think that the Wednesday players ability on the ball was generally superior to ours? The way they controlled it, laid it off, and generally moved it about the field. Some of our players seemed to often never completely have control of it even when it was at their feet.
I think it's a confidence issue, as we grew into the game we were superior.
Which was when they noticeably began to panic and recycle the ball very cheaply.
Don't agree that we collapsed after they scored. Baker should have equalised and unfortunately the game petered out.
If that Game was played in 6 weeks time with McCormack, Amavi, Tshibola and some others match fit then on the second half, we win well.
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We'll smash 'em though....;)
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OK.
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Nobody was singing anything at Bacuna.
It was Wednesday fans singing "you're fucking shit/we're fucking good".
The last 25 years must have passed them by.
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Did people think that the Wednesday players ability on the ball was generally superior to ours? The way they controlled it, laid it off, and generally moved it about the field. Some of our players seemed to often never completely have control of it even when it was at their feet.
I think it's a confidence issue, as we grew into the game we were superior.
Which was when they noticeably began to panic and recycle the ball very cheaply.
Don't agree that we collapsed after they scored. Baker should have equalised and unfortunately the game petered out.
If that Game was played in 6 weeks time with McCormack, Amavi, Tshibola and some others match fit then on the second half, we win well.
I agree the second half has really filled me with confidence.
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We just need to win some games.
I'm not really interested in plucky half performances as we still couldn't score a goal and messed up some decent openings with a lack of composure and of course a defensive cock up (although we were decent at the back generally against one of the better forward lines in this divison).
I thought we would lose today for a variety of reasons.
Very important though we win the next two games. For morale on the pitch and off the pitch. To be in the shake up we're going to be need to win imo around 15 home games this season.
That's quite a tall order when you think we haven't won that number in the last 3-4 seasons!
Still it needs to be done as then VP will be a more positive place in the stands which will hopefully rub off on the team.
I expect a couple of signings this week and hopefully Rotherham and Huddersfield will be put away.
How many are we winning by Ads? ;)
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JustHead seems to get worse every time I see him play. His first touch is woeful.
Ayew tries hard but I'm concerned that his runs are becoming Zog-like
Gardner looked way off the pace. I think that the injuries have taken their toll
Pointy and Bacuna are what they are, average to below average players.
McCafu and Aly are all effort, no quality.
I think that Baker & Tommy could be a reasonable partnership.
Apart from his Guzan-esque moment, Goalkeeperini looked the real deal
....apart from all that, the M1, M42 and M5 were OK :)
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Nobody was singing anything at Bacuna.
It was Wednesday fans singing "you're fucking shit/we're fucking good".
The last 25 years must have passed them by.
It's Yorkshire.
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Putting a wink after a snidey comment doesn't make your comment any less snide. Not sure what your problem is?
I though Wednesday were ordinary and that we were capable of getting a win up there. I was disapppinted with the starting XI but despite a very poor first half we didnt look like conceding. On balance we created the better chances from open play and McCormack should have put his away and Baker'Street decision to lay off instead of slotting home was bizarre. I don't blame the referee, but Hutchinson shouldn't have been on the pitch to pull Baker's shirt, but the fact he was should have seen him booked again and sent off and a penalty awarded. It happens.
A poor goal to concede and it was the only way they'd score the way the second half had gone.
If you want to disagree with my opinions and engage me in debate, then can you dial the snide down 11 notches.
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Despite the result I am feeling fairly positive. I thought the performance reflected well on the manager, to have sorted out a functioning team from the carnage of last season is impressive. It will take a few more games but I think there is definitely something to build on. Our new captain is an impressive leader and I think that helped Baker who didn't frighten me today as he normally does. Just a huge shame that it was a goal straight out of last seasons highlights DVD that cost us.
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Just game 39 of 15/16 for me.
The next few weeks j the transfer window are critical.
AND
Gestede. Why?
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Nobody was singing anything at Bacuna.
It was Wednesday fans singing "you're fucking shit/we're fucking good".
The last 25 years must have passed them by.
It's Yorkshire.
I bet they don't even applaud opposition batsmen.
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I think Gardener is very slow. I want him to do well I just can't see it
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Just game 39 of 15/16 for me.
The next few weeks j the transfer window are critical.
AND
Gestede. Why?
That's just utter nonsense. I don't remember us dominating any game last season like we did in the second half today. Losing to a lucky goal when you are dominating is totally different to being played off the park every week.
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In fairness to Gardner it was his first competitive first team game for us for 3 1/2 years so I think he's entitled to be cut a bit of slack for the time being.
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Gardner has been playing at that level for the last two years though.
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Just watched the game online having avoided the score earlier... my player comments...
Gollini - couple of smart saves, looked alert and competent, until the Guzan-like clearance. Now I worry about his confidence going into the season...
Hutton - same as always, up and down, can't really defend or cross but definitely has an engine.
Elphick - my man of the match, looked a good signing on paper, now looks a good signing on the pitch too. The new Shaun Teale (also signed from Bournmouth)?
Baker - when I saw the clash of heads in the first half, I thought here we go... but to my amazement Baker managed to go 90 minutes without a concussion today.
Cissokho - all the grace of a giraffe on rollerskates. Probably would look a better defender if he had some help from Ayew.
Bacuna - Curacao's finest is either terrible or okay, today was an okay day. A few good deliveries. It just troubles me that we still have Bacuna and Hutton as our right flank.
Gardner - waited a long time to see him in our midfield again but didn't really show much (other than an intent to pick up a yellow card) but was part of an always improving team performance for 70 minutes
Westwood - can we put someone else just outside the box on corners because Westwood is world-class at just shooting about a yard past the keeper's right-hand post. I did notice one good interception in our box in the first half, otherwise I forgot he was on the pitch.
Ayew - I just love how, no matter where on the pitch nor no matter how many opponents standing him up, he will always, always go on a dribble. Needs to find a better pass after all his good work carrying the ball.
McCormack - looked quite good in a quiet sort of way, should have scored though. At least Westwood is relieved of set-piece duty.
Gestede - Mr Ronseal, does what it says on the tin. I'd rather drop him, play Grealish and attack teams on the grass but it was a good flick-on to McCormack in the second half.
Tshibola and Grealish and Green - cameos too short to really judge but hopefully all three will offer something this season. If we are going to play Gestede, then Green should be thinking of getting in ahead of Bacuna.
Final thought - Sheffield Wednesday, proud old club, their current Ipswich-style home shirt is a disgrace.
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Gardner has been playing at that level for the last two years though.
Fair comment, but it wasn't as part of this squad.
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I thought we were poor first half but much better in the second. I think 0-0 would have been a fair result. Disappointing start but not the end of the world. Once we find our feet we'll be ok.
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I thought the centre of midfield was painfully weak and Ayew needs to be further forward. Elphick is brilliant as a leader and could be the signing of many a summer. Gollini despite the kick impressed me greatly.
McCormack obviously has a lot of class and if he had a more mobile partner today I think would have hurt them. Gestede just needs to be an impact player for a while. Work in progress but think RDM knows what he is doing.
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We were good enough to win in the 2nd half. Still not impressed by Cissokho, why is he still played? Goal came from a poor clearance and Wednesday shouldve been a man down in the 2nd half
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Just watched the game online having avoided the score earlier... my player comments...
Gollini - couple of smart saves, looked alert and competent, until the Guzan-like clearance. Now I worry about his confidence going into the season...
Hutton - same as always, up and down, can't really defend or cross but definitely has an engine.
Elphick - my man of the match, looked a good signing on paper, now looks a good signing on the pitch too. The new Shaun Teale (also signed from Bournmouth)?
Baker - when I saw the clash of heads in the first half, I thought here we go... but to my amazement Baker managed to go 90 minutes without a concussion today.
Cissokho - all the grace of a giraffe on rollerskates. Probably would look a better defender if he had some help from Ayew.
Bacuna - Curacao's finest is either terrible or okay, today was an okay day. A few good deliveries. It just troubles me that we still have Bacuna and Hutton as our right flank.
Gardner - waited a long time to see him in our midfield again but didn't really show much (other than an intent to pick up a yellow card) but was part of an always improving team performance for 70 minutes
Westwood - can we put someone else just outside the box on corners because Westwood is world-class at just shooting about a yard past the keeper's right-hand post. I did notice one good interception in our box in the first half, otherwise I forgot he was on the pitch.
Ayew - I just love how, no matter where on the pitch nor no matter how many opponents standing him up, he will always, always go on a dribble. Needs to find a better pass after all his good work carrying the ball.
McCormack - looked quite good in a quiet sort of way, should have scored though. At least Westwood is relieved of set-piece duty.
Gestede - Mr Ronseal, does what it says on the tin. I'd rather drop him, play Grealish and attack teams on the grass but it was a good flick-on to McCormack in the second half.
Tshibola and Grealish and Green - cameos too short to really judge but hopefully all three will offer something this season. If we are going to play Gestede, then Green should be thinking of getting in ahead of Bacuna.
Final thought - Sheffield Wednesday, proud old club, their current Ipswich-style home shirt is a disgrace.
Amazing how opinions vary. Just readthe Daily Mail match report and its says Elphick was disappointing and cost us the game......
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Disappointing result, but I think we all knew that it will take more than 4 new bodies to resolve the problems of the last few years. On the plus side at least Villa did not get buried.
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The Heil used to have a semi decent sports section, but they have gone to heil, as is were.
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Got back about an hour ago. Can't be bothered to trawl through the previous posts so apologies if a lot has been said befor!
Support was fantastic.
First half poor second half better.
Gardener way off the pace, Cissoko should have not been on the pitch, Bacuna s just the thickest footballer I have ever seen and should not be starting.
Not enough width & too many aimless long balls.
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On the one hand, if Sheffield Wednesday are one of the better sides in the division then we shouldn't have much to be afraid of this season. On the other, we should really have won and I don't have much confidence at this moment in time that we'll pick up sufficient points from the remaining 45 games (ugh) to be promoted. Further investment still required.
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Just watched the game online having avoided the score earlier... my player comments...
Gollini - couple of smart saves, looked alert and competent, until the Guzan-like clearance. Now I worry about his confidence going into the season...
Hutton - same as always, up and down, can't really defend or cross but definitely has an engine.
Elphick - my man of the match, looked a good signing on paper, now looks a good signing on the pitch too. The new Shaun Teale (also signed from Bournmouth)?
Baker - when I saw the clash of heads in the first half, I thought here we go... but to my amazement Baker managed to go 90 minutes without a concussion today.
Cissokho - all the grace of a giraffe on rollerskates. Probably would look a better defender if he had some help from Ayew.
Bacuna - Curacao's finest is either terrible or okay, today was an okay day. A few good deliveries. It just troubles me that we still have Bacuna and Hutton as our right flank.
Gardner - waited a long time to see him in our midfield again but didn't really show much (other than an intent to pick up a yellow card) but was part of an always improving team performance for 70 minutes
Westwood - can we put someone else just outside the box on corners because Westwood is world-class at just shooting about a yard past the keeper's right-hand post. I did notice one good interception in our box in the first half, otherwise I forgot he was on the pitch.
Ayew - I just love how, no matter where on the pitch nor no matter how many opponents standing him up, he will always, always go on a dribble. Needs to find a better pass after all his good work carrying the ball.
McCormack - looked quite good in a quiet sort of way, should have scored though. At least Westwood is relieved of set-piece duty.
Gestede - Mr Ronseal, does what it says on the tin. I'd rather drop him, play Grealish and attack teams on the grass but it was a good flick-on to McCormack in the second half.
Tshibola and Grealish and Green - cameos too short to really judge but hopefully all three will offer something this season. If we are going to play Gestede, then Green should be thinking of getting in ahead of Bacuna.
Final thought - Sheffield Wednesday, proud old club, their current Ipswich-style home shirt is a disgrace.
Is it me, or is it unclear where Ayew was playing today ? Was it 4-3-3 or was wide left in a 4-4-2, if that's the case I think Cissoskho had every right to be having a go at his lack of tracking back and doing the defensive side of the midfield work, I know that's not exactly the strongest part of Ayew's game, but the midfield is there to protect the back four as well as supply the forwards.
Yes, I agree about their kit, nothing to do us with us I know, and yes times change, but as a traditionalist it barely resembled a Sheffield Wednesday kit.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
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Just got back. Not going to go too deep into things even to say, we definitely didn't deserve to lose that.
We have a Captain, a proper captain.
Until Amavi is fit, please play Joe Bennett at LB, because AC is fucking hopeless.
...and Rudy Gestede, being bang average is one thing, not moving your fucking lazy arse, or even braking sweat is quite another.
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Thought we played OK today, even well at times in the second half. We always seem to find a way to lose though. Nonetheless, think the championship shouldn't hold too many fears once we hit our stride. He should start Grealish ahead of Gardner for a start.
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Oh and yes - well done (again) to the 5,000 or so that were there today, your support, as ever, was superb, we heard you loud and clear on the tv.
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Was denied entry due to me apparently being intoxicated. I don't drink as I'm on
my medication.I do appear a bit wobley at times due to 200mg of sertraline.
Stewardess couldn't give a toss and confiscated my ticket.
Police intervened and advised me to leave the area. I tried to explain but two separate coppers couldn't give a fuck.
It's not like Yorkshire has a reputation for treating fans like shit is it?
What a bunch of absolute c****. Sorry to hear that mate, I hope you're going to complain, and I hope you get compensated for such treatment.
I have E-mailed Wednesday and will see what happens. Thanks for your reply Percy.
My pleasure mate, good luck with it.
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About three days ago I became 'friends' on Facebook with a lad with whom I went to primary and secondary school. He used to live a couple of doors from our house on Chelmsley Wood. I hadn't seen him since 1982 thereabouts.
I got my first message from him today, 34 years after I last spoke to him: he commented on my 'status' pointing out the I was cheering on the Villa boys at a local bar.
It read 'Boing Boing!'
Who is it mate? Next time I'm coming home from the Night Owl I'll go round and bounce a house tick off his windows. How's that for boing boing?
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Not much to add to what has been said already...first half was poor, but deserved at least a draw based on second half domination...and conceding the goal due to yet another defensive error so late was just predictably typical.
Gestede is a waste of space...its like playing with 10 men with him on the pitch. I'd like to see him sold, but I doubt it will happen so we'll just have to hope he can contribute in some way this season...or send him out on loan to a team that would cross the ball to him.
Any team with Bacuna, Westwood, Gestede, Cissokho, Gardner and Hutton is going to struggle. We simply can't afford to carry so many poor players if we expect to get results this season. Hopefully the majority of these will be shipped out or replacements come in so they aren't first choice on the team sheet.
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I wish we'd get out of this mentality of passing back to our keeper so much too. They're going to make a mistake because goalkeepers can't play football.
Was saying this at the game. Not so much about keepers not being able to play football but more that even with the pointless passing sideways passing it back and then sideways and back and sideways it still ends up with a hoof. So why not just hoof it first. This sideways passing from the back serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. We're not anywhere near good enough to pass the ball out of defence when chased down so why bother?
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Gestede is not going to get goals without wingers and we don't have any, he is one dimensional and we lose out because he puts no pressure on defences. For all waiting to see Gardner back in the side it was an eye opener, far too slow. Agree with most that has been said but the defeat will spur the owner to get players in.
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What I will say about Gardner is that Delph always looked really short on pace for a few games but once he got a run in the side he grew into it, that same may happen here so I'd give him a few more games before dismissing him completely.
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Not much to add to what has been said already...first half was poor, but deserved at least a draw based on second half domination...and conceding the goal due to yet another defensive error so late was just predictably typical.
Gestede is a waste of space...its like playing with 10 men with him on the pitch. I'd like to see him sold, but I doubt it will happen so we'll just have to hope he can contribute in some way this season...or send him out on loan to a team that would cross the ball to him.
Any team with Bacuna, Westwood, Gestede, Cissokho, Gardner and Hutton is going to struggle. We simply can't afford to carry so many poor players if we expect to get results this season. Hopefully the majority of these will be shipped out or replacements come in so they aren't first choice on the team sheet.
Agree with most of this. Although the kick by Gollini was a poor one, it was still a major stroke of luck that Elphick flicked it into their player and it fell to him without him having to break his stride.
I agree with your assessment of the players who need to go. Hutton and Cissokho were awful, Baker looked clumsy, Westwood was weak and slow, Gardner was just slow, Bacuna was anonymous and Gestede's touch was awful.
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I wish we'd get out of this mentality of passing back to our keeper so much too. They're going to make a mistake because goalkeepers can't play football.
Was saying this at the game. Not so much about keepers not being able to play football but more that even with the pointless passing sideways passing it back and then sideways and back and sideways it still ends up with a hoof. So why not just hoof it first. This sideways passing from the back serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. We're not anywhere near good enough to pass the ball out of defence when chased down so why bother?
I read an interview wiith Gary Cahill in the summer where he was basically saying that English fans don't appreciate this passing the ball around at the back but that it is frequently used to give players a few seconds to catch their breath and take a rest.
I have always found it weird when defenders pass the ball back 30m for the keeper to shell it say 60m, when the defender could have put it in the same spot even with their weaker foot.
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Bacuna put in a number of good crosses and had a shot just over the bar. I really don't get why people keep saying he was shit/anonymous? He wasn't brilliant and he wasn't shit, he was decent.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
Sorry, just didn't see that. He was totally anonymous in the first half and hardly offered anything in the second. Green looked far more lively when he came on. Bacuna, Westwood, Baker etc. looked what they are - bang average Championship players who should have been nowhere near a top flight side.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
Sorry, just didn't see that. He was totally anonymous in the first half and hardly offered anything in the second. Green looked far more lively when he came on. Bacuna, Westwood, Baker etc. looked what they are - bang average Championship players who should have been nowhere near a top flight side.
Well maybe they have found there level now because as it stands they aren't anywhere near a top flight side. Horses for courses hopefully. Steve Sims and David Hunt to get you up and then Derek Mountfield and Gordon Cowans to kick on.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
Sorry, just didn't see that. He was totally anonymous in the first half and hardly offered anything in the second. Green looked far more lively when he came on. Bacuna, Westwood, Baker etc. looked what they are - bang average Championship players who should have been nowhere near a top flight side.
Well maybe they have found there level now because as it stands they aren't anywhere near a top flight side. Horses for courses hopefully. Steve Sims and David Hunt to get you up and then Derek Mountfield and Gordon Cowans to kick on.
Problem is Damo that they aren't top end of the Championship players. Despite this, I definitely think there were some positives, especially in the second half. The shape looked better and we actually seemed to have a style of play. Elphick looks a natural leader and in McCormack, we seem to have someone who can produce a bit of quality in the final third, especially from set pieces. We just to need upgrades on Hutton, Baker, Westwood, Gardner, Bacuna and Gestede.
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Bacuna put in a number of good crosses and had a shot just over the bar. I really don't get why people keep saying he was shit/anonymous? He wasn't brilliant and he wasn't shit, he was decent.
He's behind Agbonlahor, Richards and Lescott in the ****** stakes, and certainly neck a neck with Westwood for being the centre of my wrath, but I thought he played ok.
He can cross a ball, has a good engine. He doesn't do enough, usually, but credit where credit's due, that was a decent performance.
I thought the crap players on display today were Cissohko, Gestede, Hutton and Gardner. Westwood had a few shots, but what an anonymous, weak midget he is. He's like a thin Barry Bannan, who himself was massively rubbish today.
Frustrating loss, but we did ok second half. Ayew needs to look up more. That's my view on him. Gestede needs to fuck off. There'd be a better performance by a snowman.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
Sorry, just didn't see that. He was totally anonymous in the first half and hardly offered anything in the second. Green looked far more lively when he came on. Bacuna, Westwood, Baker etc. looked what they are - bang average Championship players who should have been nowhere near a top flight side.
Well maybe they have found there level now because as it stands they aren't anywhere near a top flight side. Horses for courses hopefully. Steve Sims and David Hunt to get you up and then Derek Mountfield and Gordon Cowans to kick on.
Problem is Damo that they aren't top end of the Championship players. Despite this, I definitely think there were some positives, especially in the second half. The shape looked better and we actually seemed to have a style of play. Elphick looks a natural leader and in McCormack, we seem to have someone who can produce a bit of quality in the final third, especially from set pieces. We just to need upgrades on Hutton, Baker, Westwood, Gardner, Bacuna and Gestede.
That's exactly it, mate. 6 players out of a starting 11, who just aren't up to it. You can't play with 4 outfield players and expect to do well, but that's just what we seem to do week in, week out.
It's incredibly frustrating, as everyone can see it. Week in, week out.
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Bacuna was at times one of our better players out there. it has got to be frustrating playing in front of Hutton, who again played like an ale house footballer.
Thought Ayew run his socks off, but just couldn't find the final ball.
If McCormack's chance had been buried we would be all singing/dancing on here tonight. In truth we probably didn't do enough to win. The Championship is everything that we were warned about 110 miles per hour (Saunders would love that), with limited skill as compared to much of the premiership.
Just feel at 23:12 on a Sunday night very frustrated.
Sorry, just didn't see that. He was totally anonymous in the first half and hardly offered anything in the second. Green looked far more lively when he came on. Bacuna, Westwood, Baker etc. looked what they are - bang average Championship players who should have been nowhere near a top flight side.
Well maybe they have found there level now because as it stands they aren't anywhere near a top flight side. Horses for courses hopefully. Steve Sims and David Hunt to get you up and then Derek Mountfield and Gordon Cowans to kick on.
Problem is Damo that they aren't top end of the Championship players. Despite this, I definitely think there were some positives, especially in the second half. The shape looked better and we actually seemed to have a style of play. Elphick looks a natural leader and in McCormack, we seem to have someone who can produce a bit of quality in the final third, especially from set pieces. We just to need upgrades on Hutton, Baker, Westwood, Gardner, Bacuna and Gestede.
That's exactly it, mate. 6 players out of a starting 11, who just aren't up to it. You can't play with 4 outfield players and expect to do well, but that's just what we seem to do week in, week out.
It's incredibly frustrating, as everyone can see it. Week in, week out.
Agree, which is why I think we are going to need some patience this season. The first half was turgid, but there was definitely some encouraging signs in the second period. It will need some time though before we can replace all of those that need to go.
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Utterly shit team from last season turns out to still be utterly shit.
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exactly, the only encouraging sign that means anything is when we actually win a game of competitive football and that won't happen until we have the serial underachievers out of the side
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It will take time but when you have 6 players in the starting line up from what can only be described as the season from hell and 2 that have been around the rotting corpse of Aston Villa as a premier outfit for far to long, it will not happen overnight, but the squad must be shite if the likes of Hutton, Cissokho, Bacuna, Westwood and Gestede are still starters. Baker may be ok this year, again Gardner if he was half as good as we make him to be when he is not playing, well we know the story.
Ayew I would sacrifice if we are not going to play him through the middle, get 15 or 20 million for him and get a player who has skill and also willing to play his role within the team, not at times sulk if it does not work every time.
Gestede if there are no crosses coming in you cannot get use from, then roll your sleeves up you lazy tosser and make those opposition players near you know they are in a game.
Long season that I think we will have a better idea how we will fair come September, but the losing mentality carried by those players from last year will not disappear with that many of the starting line up, from last year.
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I didn't get the impression that Ayew was sulking, he seemed our only attacking threat in the early/middle part of the game and made opportunities for us with his running. He could have buried the header from Bacuna's cross but I thought he and Elphic were our standout players. I'd play him and McCormack up front together and put Green on the left maybe.
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Nelly he has given the impression that when all is not well, he is not up to the task and can go missing, not yesterday but last season. In this league we need all 11 to be on their game and on it for 90+ minutes. We have players who have the habit of turning off at certain crucial times in a game, the one thing RDM has to do if he is going to use the players from last year is teach them game management, if they continue to not learn shift on.
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Nelly he has given the impression that when all is not well, he is not up to the task and can go missing, not yesterday but last season. In this league we need all 11 to be on their game and on it for 90+ minutes. We have players who have the habit of turning off at certain crucial times in a game, the one thing RDM has to do if he is going to use the players from last year is teach them game management, if they continue to not learn shift on.
I probably would have had a bit of a sulk if I was in last season's team! I do hear what you're saying though and generally agree but I think Ayew does okay. Last season he was one of the few who got an ounce of credit for their play.
I think if we played him where he perceives his best position to be and sorted out some decent supply to him, he'd seem less sulky, but half of this is probably just his facial expressions- he always has that "offended/pained/stressed" face.
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this will annoy a lot of people I'm sure after just 90 minutes of competitive action, but winning the next two games at home could be crucial to getting a positive reaction to the offers/ bids we have in right now.
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Central midfield is a major concern. Tish should start alongside a new unit (Jedinak) imo. Hopefully a right back is on our wish list as having to see Hutton all season will make my eyes bleed.
Slightly in love with Tommy already, a proper proper captain. More leaders like him would be superb.
As others have said with regards Gestede, unless we start playing with width and wingers then having him up top is pointless. He's is immobile and doesn't press the back line at all. We need pace and movement to stretch teams and allow our better players more space (Ayew, Ross and jack)
All in all, a frustrating start. Hopefully as others stated, this will just speed up our transfer dealings
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So we lost 1-0 against a team who had one defeat in the last twenty at home.W e put in an encouraging performance and Di Matteo should be able to identify who are the weak links
We need Green in the team and additional power in the midfield.
A good start .
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when I played full back at a very decent level, I was told that if the winger got the ball, that it was my job to stop the ball being crossed into our box, watching yesterday, I cannot remember seeing either Hutton / Cissohko, do that once!
They are useless, and both of them ought to learn how to cross a ball, are these two players not Internationals! we need Amavi to on the left and a good Right back to be signed
Also Gardner, I forgot he was on the pitch, he does not influence the game for me.
Ayew, does not work hard enough to be playing left hand side of midfield, good going forward, although he does want to cut inside most of the time.
We have a fair few issues to sort over the next few weeks before the end of the transfer deadline, if we don't then any enthusiasm and hope that the new owner / Manager have given us will soon disappear.
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Central mid field is the biggest problem. Gardener and Westwood are just too weak. Although in the back row of the lower tier, I couldn't really see the team shape, but was amazed how much time both Ayew and McCormack spent outside the box. I thought we deserved a point for the second half display.
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I'd put in a massive bid for Wednesday's goalscorer. He was a menace throughout.
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Central midfield is a major concern. Tish should start alongside a new unit (Jedinak) imo. Hopefully a right back is on our wish list as having to see Hutton all season will make my eyes bleed.
Slightly in love with Tommy already, a proper proper captain. More leaders like him would be superb.
As others have said with regards Gestede, unless we start playing with width and wingers then having him up top is pointless. He's is immobile and doesn't press the back line at all. We need pace and movement to stretch teams and allow our better players more space (Ayew, Ross and jack)
All in all, a frustrating start. Hopefully as others stated, this will just speed up our transfer dealings
Agree re Tommy. Loved it when he was trying to get our crowd going in the second half
Is it me or does Gollini look like a younger version of Tommy?
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I'd put in a massive bid for Wednesday's goalscorer. He was a menace throughout.
Agreed. Although on the evidence of yesterday he may feel he is better where he is
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Getting Amavi fully fit and in the side, and signing someone like Jedinak (or preferably Jedinak himself) will improve is hugely IMO. But the signs are we are trying to do much more than that so I'm feeling optimistic.
Good signs from Jack and especially Green too.
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Was denied entry due to me apparently being intoxicated. I don't drink as I'm on
my medication.I do appear a bit wobley at times due to 200mg of sertraline.
Stewardess couldn't give a toss and confiscated my ticket.
Police intervened and advised me to leave the area. I tried to explain but two separate coppers couldn't give a fuck.
It's not like Yorkshire has a reputation for treating fans like shit is it?
[/quote
What a bunch of absolute c****. Sorry to hear that mate, I hope you're going to complain, and I hope you get compensated for such treatment.
I have E-mailed Wednesday and will see what happens. Thanks for your reply Percy.
200mg Sertraline is a big dose mate, I'm on the same and I know how I feel at times. I hope you get better soon and sort out some sort of apology and compensation from SWFC.
All the best mate, take care.
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Central midfield is a major concern. Tish should start alongside a new unit (Jedinak) imo. Hopefully a right back is on our wish list as having to see Hutton all season will make my eyes bleed.
Slightly in love with Tommy already, a proper proper captain. More leaders like him would be superb.
As others have said with regards Gestede, unless we start playing with width and wingers then having him up top is pointless. He's is immobile and doesn't press the back line at all. We need pace and movement to stretch teams and allow our better players more space (Ayew, Ross and jack)
All in all, a frustrating start. Hopefully as others stated, this will just speed up our transfer dealings
Agree re Tommy. Loved it when he was trying to get our crowd going in the second half
Is it me or does Gollini look like a younger version of Tommy?
He does. McCormack also looks like Andi too, but fortunately doesn't play like him.
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Disappointed with the result bad first half better second hope we can get a couple of results in our next games.
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Another game where we haven't managed to string 90 minutes together. It should be clear now to the manager, after some time evaluating, that this group of players aren't good enough and won't get promoted. Thankfully the Chairman and Manager do seem to have come to the same conclusion if the 7/8 in are to be believed, we need it, we won't go up when over half the teamsheet are arguably garbage.
I'd like to see some action before the last few days of the window, get them in as soon as we can now and get them up to speed. I don't want to enter November with us having struggled and the excuses of gelling and no pre season being thrown around.
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Disappointed at the result I thought we were the better team 2nd half.
Starting to love Elphick already are proper leader something we've missed recently.
Cissohko and Hutton simply not good enough but not as bad as Gestede and Gardner.
Will not be visiting Hillsborough again concourse was chaos at half time. Tram and train home were a nightmare.
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when I played full back at a very decent level, I was told that if the winger got the ball, that it was my job to stop the ball being crossed into our box, watching yesterday, I cannot remember seeing either Hutton / Cissohko, do that once!
They are useless, and both of them ought to learn how to cross a ball, are these two players not Internationals! we need Amavi to on the left and a good Right back to be signed
Also Gardner, I forgot he was on the pitch, he does not influence the game for me.
Ayew, does not work hard enough to be playing left hand side of midfield, good going forward, although he does want to cut inside most of the time.
We have a fair few issues to sort over the next few weeks before the end of the transfer deadline, if we don't then any enthusiasm and hope that the new owner / Manager have given us will soon disappear.
Yesterday was also another game where the myth that Hutton works hard should have been exposed. 3-4 times we lost the ball when he was upfield and he jogged back as if defending wasn't his job. One corner he was one of 3 who stayed back (with Aly and Tish) and yet as they broke he was about 7th or 8th of our players to get back to the edge of our box and Tish ended up defending at right back. I just don't get why some people think he'll be fine, there's literally no part of a fullbacks game that he's good at other than the physical aspect of getting up the field but that seems to be enough for some.
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Opening day at Wednesday is one of the toughest games of the season & I saw nothing to be frightened of. From some of the comments anyone would think that we were beaten out of sight.
There are a few things that need changing, mainly finding a mobile centre forward, a midfield enforcer & a right back. Hopefully we'll have them over the next week or so.
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when I played full back at a very decent level, I was told that if the winger got the ball, that it was my job to stop the ball being crossed into our box, watching yesterday, I cannot remember seeing either Hutton / Cissohko, do that once!
They are useless, and both of them ought to learn how to cross a ball, are these two players not Internationals! we need Amavi to on the left and a good Right back to be signed
Also Gardner, I forgot he was on the pitch, he does not influence the game for me.
Ayew, does not work hard enough to be playing left hand side of midfield, good going forward, although he does want to cut inside most of the time.
We have a fair few issues to sort over the next few weeks before the end of the transfer deadline, if we don't then any enthusiasm and hope that the new owner / Manager have given us will soon disappear.
Yesterday was also another game where the myth that Hutton works hard should have been exposed. 3-4 times we lost the ball when he was upfield and he jogged back as if defending wasn't his job. One corner he was one of 3 who stayed back (with Aly and Tish) and yet as they broke he was about 7th or 8th of our players to get back to the edge of our box and Tish ended up defending at right back. I just don't get why some people think he'll be fine, there's literally no part of a fullbacks game that he's good at other than the physical aspect of getting up the field but that seems to be enough for some.
We could do with better but there are more pressing concerns, eg central midfield.
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The problem Bacuna is going to have now is that he'll do some good stuff then as soon as he gives the ball away, fans will get on his back. I thought he had a decent second half yesterday and he'll be fine for this league. I'd prefer him at right back, with maybe Green in front of him, which I think someone has already suggested. Westwood is still not the answer though and Gestede must be the easiest striker to mark, he's just not mobile enough.
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We need Jedinak in asap.
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Disappointed with the selection - Cissokho, Gardner and Bacuna looked shit pre-season and guess what...were clearly shit yesterday! Bacuna improved second half but spent most of the first standing about offering nothing...we can't afford to carry 3 players if we want to be in contention for a top 2/3 place.
Midfield needs to be addressed...although most of our midfielders are defensive Wednesday still seemed to get though it pretty easily in the first half in particular.
Gollini did well except for the mis-kick, Elphick was solid, McCormack should have scored, Westwood not as bad as some make out. Hutton and Gestede simply not good enough.
Some positives but sincerely believe that we can only get better when we get 3/4 better players in.
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I think the issue with Hutton and Cissokho is that neither did anything spectacularly badly. They get to the byline and get a cross in. It doesnt go out or sail 20yards pass the box but time and time again we dont score from them - its always half a yard away from an attacker or half a yard too high. They will never do that extra thing - cut inside an smash one in the bottom corner or nutmeg a man and put it on a plate for an attacker. Hutton achieved this once but again, it was delayed by half a second too long.
You can get by with one like this but if we are going to carry on playing this way we need amavi back quickly
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I think Tshibola will start next week. Far more presence and drive about him.
I don't want Amavi to be rushed and if its the case that he can't do 90 minutes for a month or so, then get Bennett in.
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Elphick is a legend in the making, he showed more spirit, fight and determination in one game than some of our players did in a whole season. He is just what we need, a leader. Good move by RDM to make him captain.
Gollini looked good, an improvement on Guzan/Bunn.
McCormack looks good, and but for a brilliant block by their defender could have scored, still encouraged by him.
Midfield is where we need a bit of guile, Gardner did nothing, maybe he will improve. Westwood is just a bit light in everything he does, there is no real impact to his play.
Tish looked OK, and Grealish could be very effective this season.
Bacuna is hot and cold, but doesn't influence a game enough.
It may take a bit of mix and match to find the right blend, but a midfield enforcer needs to make his mark. I really want Gardner to be that player, but in reality it will probably be Tshbola.
Gestede needs to be more of a menace, defenders will find it easy to play against him, he needs to put himself about more.
Overall disappointed with the result, but we weren't completely blown away.
However i think most teams will relish playing us and raise their game, we are a big scalp, so we have to be prepared to fight.
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In the second half at least there were signs that we aren't too far away from being a decent side.
Prior to the game I was a little worried that we lacked pace at the back but for the first time in years we looked pretty solid, the comedy goal aside. My fears that we lacked mobility at centre midfield were well founded but I guess being away from home drove RDM to set up so we had players there rather than pushing on.
The obvious problems may be solved with players already here, we lacked a little creativity to isolate McCormack and Ayew running at defenders and Jack can provide that. We lacked width but Amarvi, Traore and Green can provide that. Hopefully the Reading lad can provide the mobility we were lacking in midfield.
Contrary to most I thought Westwood, Bacuna and Hutton were fine, they all looked comfortable and didn't struggle the way they have done at the higher level.
Which just leaves the centre forward issue.
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Yeah I thought Hutton, Bacuna and Westwood were fine.
Only Gardner and Cissokho stood out as not good enoigh for this level based on that game.
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Cissokho just looks awkward, even when he's not making goal conceding gaffes. One positive is that he's a lot taller than any alternative left back which counts when defending corners etc.
I'd rather we wait for the right time to bring back Amarvi if he's not 100%
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Thought we would win. Not overly concerned as we played pretty well, and certainly were not outclassed.
Given that Sheffield Wednesday are one of the better teams in the division, we should be in for a decent season. We could easily have won, and we have some signings yet to come. By the end of the transfer window we will have probably the best squad in the league.
Defence looked far better with Elphick in it. Left back needs sorting, especially if Bennett is not looking a better option than Cissokho. Amavi to come though, so it will be interesting to see how he does. Hutton was fine, he caused them problems.
McCormack looked good, intelligent player slightly short of match fitness. Ayew was lively. Gestede sadly looked just as poor as last season. We are being linked with some good strikers, so I don't expect him to feature much post transfer window.
Midfield Looked better with Tsibola and Grealish. Westwood played well, he can contribute at this level so long as we sign a Jedinak. Gardner was disappointing, but I am prepared to be patient. I think he can contribute, but should not be a certain starter (alternate with Westwood).
That team with a new Hernandez/Bamford/Kodija, Jedinak, Morrison, and a new defender will be right up near the top of the championship all season.
Newcastle looked pants against a Fulham team that could well go down. Title will be us or Norwich.
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I just can't see Bennett (or Gardner while we are on the subject) being good enough
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I'd play Bennett against Luton and see how he does. We already know what Sisko can, and can't do, and i'd keep Amavi back to try and have him fit to start against Rotherham.
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I just can't see Bennett (or Gardner while we are on the subject) being good enough
I was in Cambridge last weekend and bumped into a Boro fan in a pub, gleefully informing me they had beaten us 3-1.
We chatted for 15 minutes and he reckons Bennett is awful, even at championship level. He says they replaced him with some lad for Ģ500k and he maintains the fella is / was much better.
I thought Bennett looked like a tidy player, but not a defender, certainly at Premier league level. Boro bloke reckons he was not even that good in the championship for them.
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A little taste of the atmos in our end yesterday.
http://youtu.be/AwTp6__3kCo
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I think the issue with Hutton and Cissokho is that neither did anything spectacularly badly. They get to the byline and get a cross in. It doesnt go out or sail 20yards pass the box but time and time again we dont score from them - its always half a yard away from an attacker or half a yard too high. They will never do that extra thing - cut inside an smash one in the bottom corner or nutmeg a man and put it on a plate for an attacker. Hutton achieved this once but again, it was delayed by half a second too long.
You can get by with one like this but if we are going to carry on playing this way we need amavi back quickly
Sorry Matt, but Hutton's effort at defending when he turned his back on the edge of area was spectacularly bad, as was his attempted cross in the first half which didn't even reach the six yard box before going out. Cissokho was constantly caught out of position in the first half and pretty much everything they created came from there. Hopefully Amavi comes good, but we desperately need a better option than Hutton.
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About three days ago I became 'friends' on Facebook with a lad with whom I went to primary and secondary school. He used to live a couple of doors from our house on Chelmsley Wood. I hadn't seen him since 1982 thereabouts.
I got my first message from him today, 34 years after I last spoke to him: he commented on my 'status' pointing out the I was cheering on the Villa boys at a local bar.
It read 'Boing Boing!'
Who is it mate? Next time I'm coming home from the Night Owl I'll go round and bounce a house tick off his windows. How's that for boing boing?
Surname: Smith
;-)
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I think the issue with Hutton and Cissokho is that neither did anything spectacularly badly. They get to the byline and get a cross in. It doesnt go out or sail 20yards pass the box but time and time again we dont score from them - its always half a yard away from an attacker or half a yard too high. They will never do that extra thing - cut inside an smash one in the bottom corner or nutmeg a man and put it on a plate for an attacker. Hutton achieved this once but again, it was delayed by half a second too long.
You can get by with one like this but if we are going to carry on playing this way we need amavi back quickly
Sorry Matt, but Hutton's effort at defending when he turned his back on the edge of area was spectacularly bad, as was his attempted cross in the first half which didn't even reach the six yard box before going out. Cissokho was constantly caught out of position in the first half and pretty much everything they created came from there. Hopefully Amavi comes good, but we desperately need a better option than Hutton.
Maybe, I was contending with an 18month old whilst trying to watch the game so maybe missed some of the shite! My point is more that we could fill the team with people of Hutton and Cissokhos level and probably lose most games by a goal margin, usually by an individual error, most likely a different player every week. If you have one or two exceptional players like Benteke or Delph you can carry weaker players through a season but i dont think we even have that any more. based on yesterday, I would say we had 6-7 players in that mould, unspectacular and more likely to lose you one in every 10 games than win you one with some individual brilliance.
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The big issue is that, between them, our fullbacks had 10-12 good chances to get balls into the box and they never gave Rudy anything to attack from all of those chances, that's just not good enough and puts huge amounts of pressure on everyone else to create when those 2 are the ones with all the space to work in.
If they were defensively sound I'd let it go but when you see them making fundamental defensive errors as well it's clear that they offer us nothing other than being an out ball to slow our possession down. The 2 of them and Gardner were easily the worst players on the pitch from either side (Gestede was nearly as bad but I put a big part of the blame for that on those 3 anyway). I'll cut Gardner a little slack in the hope that once he gets up to speed he'll be better but the other 2 were exactly the same last season with the same weaknesses and being exposed by the same attacks.
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Not too downhearted about yesterday. That is one of the best sides in this league and we were the better side quite comfortably. It showed we have enough to be competitive. We need a few more to be definite title challengers.
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Was at the game yesterday,although the first half was poor I thought second half we were excellent and could easily have won. If Sheffield are one of the best teams in the league then I don't think we have too much to worry about. drop Gardner for tishobola and buy another striker to replace gestede and we will be right up there. UTV!
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The day after, thought we were unlucky to lose, but not an embarrassing result against a team that is going to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. Both fullbacks need replacing but useful as cover. I Thought the midfield was ok but we need some magic. Rudy doesn't get involved enough. Tommy was inspirational and going to be a Fans favourite by the end of August if not already. All in all, positive.
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The day after, thought we were unlucky to lose, but not an embarrassing result against a team that is going to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. Both fullbacks need replacing but useful as cover. I Thought the midfield was ok but we need some magic. Rudy doesn't get involved enough. Tommy was inspirational and going to be a Fans favourite by the end of August if not already. All in all, positive.
In the Upper tier, you could actually hear him shouting COME ON! COME ON! at the way end when we got that corner. First proper Captain in years.
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One thing worth mentioning is that I thought we looked miles better than Rafa Bentiez's circus.
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It was so easy for Wednesday to pass through us in the first half, Gestede can't even run so couldn't put pressure on their centre backs, Gardner and Westwood were way off the pace. Things improved in the second half, thought the two centre backs were good, even Bacuna played well. A lot of room for improvement, but no need to shit ourselves just yet.
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I like Rudy and think he can be effective for us, especially off the bench, but the immobility of him and Gardner yesterday really hindered us.
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I like Rudy and think he can be effective for us, especially off the bench, but the immobility of him and Gardner yesterday really hindered us.
Couldn't agree more with that. I was talking to my lad today and said Rudy is the sort of player you stick on when you need a goal with 15 minutes left and just start lumping it high into the area.
His movement is shocking, it really is. Three yards one way, a couple back. Their Centre half just walked around with him. Hopefully RDM and Clarke have picked up on this because, as you said, it really hinders us.
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The impression I get from reading the other posts is that we should be pleased that we lost to a late goal to one of the better sides in the division. The impression I got (I only saw the second half) is that we flattered to deceive, showed poor decision-making upfront and the critical defensive mistake at the end was utterly predictable.
Itīs one game and there's a long way to go but I donīt see much yet to suggest weīre going to be contenders
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I haven't seen a single post saying they were pleased we lost 1-0. Just that it isn't the end of the world and there were positives to be taken from the game.
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I haven't seen a single post saying they were pleased we lost 1-0. Just that it isn't the end of the world and there were positives to be taken from the game.
Precisely and as I've already said for us to be dominant in a game and feel we were unjustly beaten is a massive change.
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The day after, thought we were unlucky to lose, but not an embarrassing result against a team that is going to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. Both fullbacks need replacing but useful as cover. I Thought the midfield was ok but we need some magic. Rudy doesn't get involved enough but would be useful as an impact player. Tommy was an inspirational captain, someone who we have been lacking for a number of years and is going to be a Fans favourite by the end of August if not already. All in all I feel quite positive.
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Was at the game yesterday,although the first half was poor I thought second half we were excellent and could easily have won. If Sheffield are one of the best teams in the league then I don't think we have too much to worry about. drop Gardner for tishobola and buy another striker to replace gestede and we will be right up there. UTV!
inspiring, Thank you
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Not too downhearted about yesterday. That is one of the best sides in this league and we were the better side quite comfortably. It showed we have enough to be competitive. We need a few more to be definite title challengers.
Quite comfortably? Not sure about that. They dominated first 30 mins and it was interesting thinking anout the match today in that I think they had a number of shots on goal (havent checked the stats) but Gollini always seemed to be in the right place. We were much improved in the second half and deserved a point overall
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
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There some positives from yesterday, like Elphick's debut and the improvement in the second half. I think the manager got the selection in midfield wrong and felt he should have brought Grealish on sooner. Its just a shame we couldn't hold out for what would have been a decent point. We need to learn to stop giving away sloppy late goals and to see results out.
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Whilst a lot of the squad are the same we are a team under new management and it will take a while to get going but at least for once I feel like I can say us / we / team , despite the defeat it was a massive step in the right direction, bring on Rotherham and Huddersfield !
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Whilst a lot of the squad are the same we are a team under new management and it will take a while to get going but at least for once I feel like I can say us / we / team , despite the defeat it was a massive step in the right direction, bring on Rotherham and Huddersfield !
And I think those home games are important because of how tricky the two league away games are. Was hopeing we might nick a point yesterday as combined with what should be two home wins then they would be a decent start. Not sure I can see us getting anything at Derby but you never know.
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
This has been part of the issue for years paulie, along with a lack of presence in the middle of the pitch. It seemed that every game last season we surrendered the midfield to the opposition from the kick off. Stan Petrov wasn't the greatest player but he occupied the central ground and could tackle and offer some protection to the defence. We haven't had anyone like it since. Hopefully, Tshibola will fill this role but he's got a lot to learn. It is also Gardner's position but is he really good enough?
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
2010.
There is no excuse for not sorting it out now we're not in the premier league.
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I haven't seen a single post saying they were pleased we lost 1-0. Just that it isn't the end of the world and there were positives to be taken from the game.
I would add to that a general acceptance that we are very much rebuilding and we are going to have to be patient.
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I haven't seen a single post saying they were pleased we lost 1-0. Just that it isn't the end of the world and there were positives to be taken from the game.
I would add to that a general acceptance that we are very much rebuilding and we are going to have to be patient.
Exactly. It took 5 years to get to where we are, so it's going to take more than 5 mins to put it right again. Results will be a little unpredictable through the first half but I see things settling down and clicking into place and finishing strong. I don't see us as top two but I think we will be there or there abouts.
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
This has been part of the issue for years paulie, along with a lack of presence in the middle of the pitch. It seemed that every game last season we surrendered the midfield to the opposition from the kick off. Stan Petrov wasn't the greatest player but he occupied the central ground and could tackle and offer some protection to the defence. We haven't had anyone like it since. Hopefully, Tshibola will fill this role but he's got a lot to learn. It is also Gardner's position but is he really good enough?
It would help greatly taking Westwood out of there. It is a key position and he does not have any presence. I do feel that he goes missing defensively and you just cannot afford that. His reading of the game is not good as can be seen when he gets caught outside our penalty area picking up nobody and pointing to others to pick up players. At this level, he may be ok playing further forward but, having said that, he lacks pace and stamina.
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Not too downhearted about yesterday. That is one of the best sides in this league and we were the better side quite comfortably. It showed we have enough to be competitive. We need a few more to be definite title challengers.
Quite comfortably? Not sure about that. They dominated first 30 mins and it was interesting thinking anout the match today in that I think they had a number of shots on goal (havent checked the stats) but Gollini always seemed to be in the right place. We were much improved in the second half and deserved a point overall
Both sides were bang average in the first half. They created bugger all in terms of chances.
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
This has been part of the issue for years paulie, along with a lack of presence in the middle of the pitch. It seemed that every game last season we surrendered the midfield to the opposition from the kick off. Stan Petrov wasn't the greatest player but he occupied the central ground and could tackle and offer some protection to the defence. We haven't had anyone like it since. Hopefully, Tshibola will fill this role but he's got a lot to learn. It is also Gardner's position but is he really good enough?
It would help greatly taking Westwood out of there. It is a key position and he does not have any presence. I do feel that he goes missing defensively and you just cannot afford that. His reading of the game is not good as can be seen when he gets caught outside our penalty area picking up nobody and pointing to others to pick up players. At this level, he may be ok playing further forward but, having said that, he lacks pace and stamina.
This is my point old man. Successive managers continued to play him in a role that he's not capable of fulfilling. It's not easy finding the right player but we need a strong, dominant type or we will continue to be overrun in midfield in this league also.
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Just having a quick scan of some of their boards and quite a few have got the arsehole about being described as 'poor' on these boards, I dont recall too many people saying that, more like they are one of the fancied teams and, for a change, they didn't look like thrashing us. We were the better side in the second half.
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The good news:
Nzog, Richardson, Guzan, Clark and Sinclair are history.
Gabby and Lescott were nowhere near the match day squad. We may actually have seen the last of both of them.
Sheffield Wednesday look bang average to me. If they really are one of the better sides in this division, then there is less to fear in this league than I had supposed.
Elphick looks like the real deal.
Ayew looks like he will be a threat this season.
We looked half decent for a spell in the second half.
The bad news:
The starting line-up still looks nowhere near strong enough. Particularly the midfield and the full backs.
We appeared to have better players on the bench than on the pitch at kick off. Why didn't Amavi, Grealish, Tshibola and/or Green actually start?
August 2015. Selhurst Park. A competitive performance which should have yielded a hard-earned point is undermined by a late mix-up between the goalkeeper and the left back. August 2016. Hillsborough. Ditto. Groundhog Day.
We lost again. When will the agony finally stop??
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Agree with all of that, Paul.
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I keep thinking, how long is it since we've had anything even remotely resembling a bit of steel in midfield?
It is the one thing which would improve us instantly.
This has been part of the issue for years paulie, along with a lack of presence in the middle of the pitch. It seemed that every game last season we surrendered the midfield to the opposition from the kick off. Stan Petrov wasn't the greatest player but he occupied the central ground and could tackle and offer some protection to the defence. We haven't had anyone like it since. Hopefully, Tshibola will fill this role but he's got a lot to learn. It is also Gardner's position but is he really good enough?
Sanchez can provide steel. It's a player with a brain that is required. No brains of any kind in midfield since Stan retired. How much is he missed?