Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on October 18, 2014, 04:52:45 PM
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Bollocks.
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Well after the first four games its back to hoping 3 teams are worse than us again.
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Not good enough yet again. Tactical nous of a dead kipper.
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Hapless, witless shite.
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It's what we should expect. Apparently.
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Disappointing. QPR next week is a must not lose now.
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What is there left to say that hasn't been said before?
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Same weaknesses, same mistakes, same lack of creativity, and also today, an almost total lack of fight or spirit
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No guile, no drive, no fight, one dimensional tactics, hardly a shot on target in anger ..........sod it just look at my post match comments from the last 3 games. Didn't expect to get any points from Arse, Citeh and Chavski but thought we might get something here. It's not just the defeat - it's the manner of it which hurts most
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How did vlaar play ? Did he look like a man who's head is elsewhere ?
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
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We are an awful team with no leadership that is managed by a clueless manager who can't manage. Lambert is light-years away from taking us where we should be.
Lerner was there today, no doubts he'll be back on his plane later tonight putting everything he saw today in the back of his mind and that will be that.
Unfortunately for us we'll have to watch this crap all over again next week, the week after that and so on....
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Fair play to Hutton and Cleverly who were miles better than anyone else.
Team look lost creativity wise and now the defence as crumbled we look as shite as we did last season...oh and the season before that ..and the one before that.
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Why do we choose not to compete in a game. It's absolutely pathetic.
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After the initial hope at the start of the season that our defence had finally turned a corner, we've just shipped 11 in four games. Injuries are part of that, and, some might argue, the quality of the opposition but I don't buy that. It is an awful record.
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What is there left to say that hasn't been said before?
Exactly.
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Simply dire. After such a positive start to te season we have comfortably settled into our shit way of playing again. God it is so very shit to watch every week. All of the positive momentum of the opening weeks has gone.
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:(
Bollocks.
We need to grow some. Fast.
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It could be worse. We could be Sunderland.
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
And Saints get double that in one match!
Our tactic seems to be similar to a boxing match where we hope to break our opponents hand with our chin. And no Plan B.
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I expected a defeat, of course, but I'm actually more pissed off at wasting my afternoon watching it.
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I said it in the match thread and ill say it again. He played 4-3-3 counter attacking football against 3 far superior teams and got it handed to him. So what does he do? trys exactly the same fucking thing again.
We survived last season by catching the top 4-5 teams by surprise and snuck results against them. but he has tried to do the same this season, the best managers don't make the same mistake twice and its not easy to work out how to beat us. Keep a deep back line, play possession football and press us high up the pitch which nullifies our long ball counter attacking shite.
He has no plan B, ever. Compare him to Koeman, Poccetino, Martinez - does anyone thing he will ever be good enough to improve us? four year fucking contract? dear me.
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It's what we should expect. Apparently.
And that's what really upsets me.
It's all very well people asking what we expect, and pointing out how often Everton have finished above us in the last ten years. The question I ask in response is WHY shouldn't we expect to beat them? Are they a bigger club than us? Have they got a bigger ground? Have they got loads more money? Are they able to attract better players because they're in a more glamorous location? No to all of the above.
There's absolutely no reason why Everton should be any more successful than us. Given proper management, we're entirely capable of being as successful in terms of league places as they are. And that's the really depressing part. It's not as if we're a small club with no history and no resources who should be grateful to even be in the PL. We're Aston Villa, not Hull City.
The lack of gumption in the way our club has been run over the last decade or so is enough to make you weep. And we, as fans, have been brought so low that we expect nothing better. It's appalling.
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Everton need a result. No problem, Villa will help you out. Devoid of ideas, lacking ability. Shite.
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Dire. We've approached every game this season like this. We have no other way of playing. Those early results weren't going to continue without us trying to be a little more adventurous. Obviously we've played good opposition in the previous three games. That can just about be excused, even if the lack of attacking intent is hard to take.
As for today, playing an out of sort Everton side who were leaking goals left, right and center should have seen us approaching the game with a high tempo and getting at them. We should have been attacking their fullbacks and pressing them in their own half. We could, and should have got more attacking joy. However we just sat back again and looked wretched in the few occasions we had possession of the ball. We weren't playing the same Everton who finished 5th. We played an Everton side struggling to get going and woeful in defence this season, who hadn't won at home. To have made it as easy for them as we did is unforgivable. Utterly pathetic. You expect a lot more fight and aggression, particularly from a side helmed by two former midfielder bulldozers.
Hutton was far and away our best player today. He gave his all and I feel sorry for the guy because, particularly going forward, he had no support. My player of the season so far.
We need a system change and an attitude change. We can't keep playing 9 men behind the ball and inviting pressure. Half decent sides will punish us. Averaging 40% possession and a couple of shots on target per game will result another struggle over the line, and only by the benefit of three shitter teams below us.
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Does Lerner look at Koeman and think, fuck me, now that's how to manage.
Would he even know who Koeman is ?
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
See also: 7 games, total of 11 shots on target, of which 4 came in one match (Hull).
That's horrific.
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I was driving for most of the game, each time R5 said there's been a goal at Goodison, just knew which way it had gone.
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I'm off to kick some puppies!
Don't worry though, my accuracy is the same as Villa's so i'm more likely to boot myself in the head.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are gunna be deep trouble
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Just when you think Lerner cant make any more bad decisions he prematurely ejaculates and offers him a four year contract on the back of 4 decent results. Are we still for sale?
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
See also: 7 games, total of 11 shots on target, of which 4 came in one match (Hull).
That's horrific.
Add on the tail end of last season and it's even worse.
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Wasn't exoecting another 3-0 to be honest. Starting to look like the back end of last season when we were consistently losing easily. Creativity problem just hasn't been addressed has it? Getting Joe Cole in seemed ridiculous then and still does.
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
See also: 7 games, total of 11 shots on target, of which 4 came in one match (Hull).
That's horrific.
It goes way, way beyond a lack of creativity. We could have Xavi and Iniesta playing for us and we wouldn't get out of our own half. It's negative tactics which McLeish would be getting battered for. I'm tired of seeing it. I really am.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are gunna be deep trouble
Every game is tough,the league is tough, it's expected to be tough.
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I wonder if Roy Keane is about to throw in the towel and suddenly leave the club. I dont see how a winner like he is could put up with a half hearted performance like that. The initial effect may be wearing off.
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Back to the lambert default position. 1 goal in last 6. The only way is down with Delph missing and vlaar coasting to a January transfer.
At least its Lambert's last year of his contract. Oh shit...
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Everton today was identical to last season in that a few weeks prior we played so well at Anfield only to lie down and take it at Goodison. I just don't get it. I'm sure Lambert will be proud of the effort though.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are gunna be deep trouble
Every game is tough,the league is tough, it's expected to be tough.
How long before he loses the fans again? I honestly think he has 180mins. 2 more defeats and that start to the season will be forgotten.
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Just when you think Lerner cant make any more bad decisions he prematurely ejaculates and offers him a four year contract on the back of 4 decent results. Are we still for sale?
Thats the most depressing thing. We were less than a season away from getting rid of him then in an instant it's 4 more years. Moyes is making noises that he's ready to return to management too.
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Everton today was identical to last season in that a few weeks prior we played so well at Anfield only to lie down and take it at Goodison. I just don't get it. I'm sure Lambert will be proud of the effort though.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhh...I forgot he has a post match interview to do :(
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I think we are at the point where the whole club, players , fans, staff, everything needs a big lift. That points to a new high calibre manager unfortunately it's not happening any day soon.
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To think we rewarded Lambert with a 4 year deal in the summer. The mind boggles.
It's clear his only remit is to keep us in the Premier League.
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I think we are at the point where the whole club, players , fans, staff, everything needs a big lift. That points to a new high calibre manager unfortunately it's not happening any day soon.
Trouble is the club are not acknowledging there is a problem.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are gunna be deep trouble
Every game is tough,the league is tough, it's expected to be tough.
How long before he loses the fans again? I honestly think he has 180mins. 2 more defeats and that start to the season will be forgotten.
The QPR game is must win, because the following three are all quite difficult. We'll roll over against Spurs as per normal. West Ham look better this season than last and Southampton look pretty tasty.
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To think we rewarded Lambert with a 4 year deal in the summer. The mind boggles.
It's clear his only remit is to keep us in the Premier League.
Wasn't it after the first three or four games, rather than the summer?
Anyway, doesn't really matter, it was mindwarpingly fucking stupid whenever he did it.
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Problem?
What problem?
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4 goals in 8 games is piss poor. Time for them to step up against QPR now.
See also: 7 games, total of 11 shots on target, of which 4 came in one match (Hull).
That's horrific.
It goes way, way beyond a lack of creativity. We could have Xavi and Iniesta playing for us and we wouldn't get out of our own half. It's negative tactics which McLeish would be getting battered for. I'm tired of seeing it. I really am.
Spot on. The club's rotten to the core. 5 years of utter site and embarrassment
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I think we are at the point where the whole club, players , fans, staff, everything needs a big lift. That points to a new high calibre manager unfortunately it's not happening any day soon.
No high calibre manager would touch us with a barge poll while Lerner runs us on a shoestring.
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Pathetic. We are joke of a side that will accommodate any team desperate for a result.
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Oh dear. I got that one wrong.
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To think we rewarded Lambert with a 4 year deal in the summer. The mind boggles.
It's clear his only remit is to keep us in the Premier League.
Wasn't it after the first three or four games, rather than the summer?
Anyway, doesn't really matter, it was mindwarpingly fucking stupid whenever he did it.
Yeah you're right. We won a few games and Lerner thought now would be the best time to award him with a contract he simply didn't deserve. The fans were happy with the start so there wouldn't be as much protest as there could (and should) have been.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are gunna be deep trouble
Every game is tough,the league is tough, it's expected to be tough.
How long before he loses the fans again? I honestly think he has 180mins. 2 more defeats and that start to the season will be forgotten.
The starts forgotten for me already. We've taken identical points from same opposition last season so it's clear where we're headed
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I think we are at the point where the whole club, players , fans, staff, everything needs a big lift. That points to a new high calibre manager unfortunately it's not happening any day soon.
No high calibre manager would touch us with a barge poll while Lerner runs us on a shoestring.
The depressing thing is that this is totally acceptable for Randy - hence the four year contract. Above all, it is that which has to change.
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My decision not to renew our season tickets has been vindicated - club is sliding once again. Its not the fact we are losing to the "better" teams its the manner in which we capitulate each time. The sad thing is nothing is going to change anytime soon and we may face the club being involved in another relegation tussle - thats why I suggested earlier that we are becoming a laughing stock- just waiting for the old "Aston Vanilla" jokes to resurface (i.e the team anyone can lick)
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This is not what I expect from Aston Villa. Although, this is exactly what I expect of Paul Lambert's team.
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To think we rewarded Lambert with a 4 year deal in the summer. The mind boggles.
It's clear his only remit is to keep us in the Premier League.
Wasn't it after the first three or four games, rather than the summer?
Anyway, doesn't really matter, it was mindwarpingly fucking stupid whenever he did it.
Year you're right. We won a few games and Lerner thought now would be the best time to award him with a contract he simply didn't deserve. The fans were happy with the start so there wouldn't be as much protest as there could (and should) have been.
but in the name of god WHY????? it makes no sense. He is doing awfully, has done awfully for a couple of years and has shown very little improvement, most of his signings don't even play. Why not see how he went till Christmas? why after 3 games? the fans were chanting for his head 7-8 games previously
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Genuinely cannot see where our next win will be.
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I think we are at the point where the whole club, players , fans, staff, everything needs a big lift. That points to a new high calibre manager unfortunately it's not happening any day soon.
No high calibre manager would touch us with a barge poll while Lerner runs us on a shoestring.
The depressing thing is that this is totally acceptable for Randy - hence the four year contract. Above all, it is that which has to change.
Basically he's not a fan and he doesn't feel the pain like we do. He's also thousands of miles away, and you know what they say, "out of sight out of mind".
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I will be happy to never see Nzog in a Villa shirt again.
And our clueless manager 4-3-3 every time with the same brainless stupid tactics, sit back and hope for a break and when we inevitably concede do nothing about it.
Just let some more in, 11 against and 0 for in 4 games.
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I think the most remarkable thing we have done, which statistically would seem impossible, we found a manager to replace McLeish who is even worse. That really takes some doing.
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Are there three teams worse than us this season?
Maybe one or two but not three on how we played today and if Vlaar and Delph go in January and perhaps Keane, we could accelerate towards oblivion.
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Just looking at the stats and it's quite staggering. We've scored just 4 league goals from 11 shots on target all season.
They're shameful for club the size of Aston Villa.
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Genuinely cannot see where our next win will be.
QPR ?
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haven't posted for ages because I've been ill - can someone convince me that I'm not so unwell that
rewarding a player we thought had some form of ebola for the past two years with a new three year contract on the strength of one half decent game is just mad? Apologies if this has been raised already but I'm not 100% p to speed.
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I think, seeing so many other 'progressive' managers in the league, makes it even more obvious that
Lambert plays the game based on an archaic approach to the game.
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
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Qpr will probably suffer another defeat tomorrow against Liverpool so could go into the home game with Villa in even more need of a result and that game is now huge, it was looking very good after the first 4 games especially defensively but we are now looking shot to pieces, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that I am shitting myself again as to how our season will pan out, I had allowed myself to hope and dream of better times after those early games which was a big mistake.
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Get well soon underhill .
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
Fucking hell this bloke is truly deluded - we havnt got a prayer surviving this season with this chump in charge
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
I don't think we ever genuinely chased the game at all. Not at 1 down, 2 down or three.
And the goal was rightly chalked off and would likely have been little more than a consolation. Lambert doesn't have a clue.
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
The guy is obviously on drugs.
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Was always going to be a tough game but no excuses for that piss poor performance. Need to wake up fast or we are going to be in deep trouble
Every game is tough,the league is tough, it's expected to be tough.
How long before he loses the fans again? I honestly think he has 180mins. 2 more defeats and that start to the season will be forgotten.
The starts forgotten for me already. We've taken identical points from same opposition last season so it's clear where we're headed
The start was irrelevant after the Arsenal loss.
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Why do so many managers say that some debateable incident was the turning point of the match? There was nothing to suggest had Benteke's goal stood that Eeveton would take a leaf out of our book. They may have been in middling form but they strode to victory today. The turning point was the kick-off, after which Villa turned into a negative, flaccid sack of nothing.
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"we go again to try and get things going again"
Vintage Lambert speak right there.
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Why do so many managers say that some debateable incident was the turning point of the match? There was nothing to suggest had Benteke's goal stood that Eeveton would take a leaf out of our book. They may have been in middling form but they strode to victory today. The turning point was the kick-off, after which Villa turned into a negative, flaccid sack of nothing.
Spot on.
I can't believe he isn't faulting our efforts - not only did we play terribly for most of the match, Everton didn't have to get anywhere near top gear and coasted to three points, whereas we didn't just look utterly hopeless, we also looked totally without spirit and fight.
He's also not mentioned the clear penalty that Clark was extremely lucky not to get done for.
That's another one, where the fuck is Okore?
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"we go again to try and get things going again"
Vintage Lambert speak right there.
And they wonder why the ground is half empty with results and uninspiring toss like that.
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I honestly think he's an alcoholic. Looking at the more recent pics of him growing his "beard". I don't know what it is, but I just think there's more than meets the eye with Mr Lambert.
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It's utterly exhausting and depressing. Like a shit Groundhog Day that never wants to end.
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Awful manager. Awful tactics. Bargain basement buys that may be well meaning but are not good enough. I thought we'd be in a relegation battle before a ball was kicked and I cant see that changing over the next few months.
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Frustrated with that. We were the better side in the first half, save a little two minute spell where we couldn't clear. A very cheap first goal given away, with Cissokho giving Jagelika a yard and getting the wrong side. That was a feature throughout.
Hutton did well, especially in the first half and we put a number of balls in the box that Everton consistently struggled to deal with.
The early goal second half, with Guzan chucking it in his own net really changed it. The third was equally as poor, with Hutton going to sleep and Coleman getting beyond Cossokho again.
Our front three were far too static and when Gabby moved central second half I didn't think he put enough pressure on Barry. That was the difference; Everton forwards moved and interchanged, ours didn't. You give away goals as poor as we did today and you will struggle, while it was probably still a game too soon for Benteke, there was nowhere near enough dynamism from them.
A word for a vile woman behind us today. Not content with boring us with all the 1980's Scousers songs, she thought she would sing one about shitting on carpets and fingering grand parents. She was talking utter nonsense throughout as well.
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Will he still be referring to the good start at Xmas? He has managed to develop a culture of a defeat being far too acceptable for our club. Constant drubbings and an inability to taken the game to the opposition is now the accepted norm.
As I have said many a time the manager has been outwitted by lower division managers on more than one occasion, he is a chancer who gets the odd roll of the dice. Unfortunately he and Lerner are gambling with the future of the club.
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
Fucking hell this bloke is truly deluded - we havnt got a prayer surviving this season with this chump in charge
As I said on numerous occasions last season, he's thick and doesn't have the intellectual capacity to express himself or to manage the team. If he hadn't made it as a footballer, and thus a manager, he'd probably be unemployable. He sounds like, looks like, and is, a tosser.
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
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Goals change games. I didn't think it was a foul either, Alcaraz is just an awful player, pity we didn't put enough pressure on him. The really poor second goal a the start of the second half proved decisive on balance. We started brightly and then chucked it in.
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Well, I frigging hate him.
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I had allowed myself to hope and dream of better times after those early games which was a big mistake.
Pretty much where I am. Bloody hell. Is it really so much to ask to have a club of Villa's size have a season again where we look comfortably solid mid table and enjoy watching us play some decent stuff?
I mean, its not asking for the fucking world is it?
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Safest job in the league. Now we all said it was down to young players, needing experience and gelling together. We lived with it, we weren't happy but we wanted to give the guy a chance. We had appalling, embarrassing defeats to lower league opposition, a lot still supported him, what he was trying to do, the youngsters, no money etc. Albeit on a smallish budget he has bought in experienced players, that was the excuse, we needed experienced players to back up the the youngsters and to get some squad depth. We thought this is sensible, we lived with it. We said earlier this season, we can understand us sitting back with minimal possession against the top 4 to save us total humiliations and lost confidence. We lost on aggregate 8-0 with a creditable win at Anfield stuck in between.
Now what is the excuse? What happens during the week that makes them act like total strangers on a Saturday. Who is responsible for setting them up to sit back and then once the opposition scores has no clue how to get back into the game? It is down to the strategy of the manager. He simply isn't good enough and has to go but he won't as we know. How does it take Ronald Koeman 8 games to turn Southampton into a CL contender after all they have been through and we are still subjected to the utterly abjectly negative shite week in week out.
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I really am depressed I've had enough of Lam
bert.I wish he would just fuck off and leave dearly beloved club alone
,He hasn't a clue.
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
Never a truer work spoken in jest. Apathy is turning to distain for me. I have gone from even going on my own to matches, to not even knowing who we are playing
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
What is really depressing Brian is that between us we have 126 yrs of following Aston Villa and cannot see any hope at all. You would think there would be a major investor out there who would be interested. But it doesn't look likely does it?
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Going through the motions is the one thing about the current Aston Villa that I can't abide. It's almost as if we're playing games out of a financial commitment rather than any desire.
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
Never a truer work spoken in jest. Apathy is turning to distain for me. I have gone from even going on my own to matches, to not even knowing who we are playing
The next stage is following Chelsea
You can start to see why gloryhunters do it can't you...
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This team will get relegated. Toothless up front and a rabble at the back
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Re Lamberts' reaction to the game - come on guys, you've been kippaxed again! Lambert wouldn't be that deluded...
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didn't someone say that all political careers end in failure? well it's the same for football managers and Lambert is clearly no exception. Sooner rather than later he will have to sack the guy and it's going to cost three times as much, thanks to a totally misguided sense of loyalty. Total madness, and just the sort of profligate shit that politicians get up to.
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I would start watching rugby but the supporters all look such nerks.
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Paul Lambert makes Alex McCleish look like a tactical genius.
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Insipid , gutless and pathetic .
Our season starts next Monday - because we no longer even attempt to compete with the top 10.
What the fuck is going on ?
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Paul Lambert makes Alex McCleish look like a tactical genius.
What's more frustrating than even that is that he wasn't like that at Norwich. He went out and attacked teams and really tried to play on the front foot. McLeish has always been the same. Lambert is just heading that way at warp speed.
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Had my mind on non Villa related stuff in recent weeks but got firmly back in the saddle today, oh joy.
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One of the most feckless, pathetic displays of attacking I have seen from us. Nobody wants to take responsibility to try and create something that might nick us a goal and win us the game. They just kept tossing balls from 30 yards rather that even making an attempt to get in behind them. Pointless crosses from deep are as much of a Villa speciality as crap movement and throw ins and floated corners. Totally worthless, gives the impression that we are trying to attack but in reality is a nothing tactic. It was so easy to defend against it was embarrassing.
To top it off, out defence looks a soft touch again. Clark tries but is not central defender so we missed Baker. Cissokho was fantastic in his first four games but has been crap since scoring the own goal against Arsenal. He was marking both Jagielka and Coleman for their goals. He is looking more like the player we thought he was rather than the one we saw in the first few games of the season.
The only positive for me was Cleverley, who looked well up for it and aside from his slightly half arsed challenge on Lukaku for the second goal was our best player along with Hutton.
There's a certain acceptance of defeat about the players that I can't stomach. 3-0 three times in four games and not one player looked pissed off. They are playing against peers yet the opposition is strolling to the most comfortable win a professional footballer could expect at the highest level and nobody could muster a shot, sprint or bit of fight. You would think it would damage their pride. It was embarrassingly easy for Everton.
First time in a decade we haven't scored for four games running apparently, this team continue to seek out records to break. Everyone on this forum has been talking about possession but the shots on target stats are cringworthy. I read that we had mustered something like 9 all season up until today. The next lowest in the league was Burnley on 21. We're not even trying to score, pathetic.
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4 more years of this clown. I've had enough, I pick and choose games these days and to be honest I looked through the fixture list for the next few weeks and thought bollocks to it, I'm not wasting any more time or money on this clown and his crap circus.
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I honestly think he's an alcoholic. Looking at the more recent pics of him growing his "beard". I don't know what it is, but I just think there's more than meets the eye with Mr Lambert.
You could be right there. He's put on a lot if weight as well
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The big difference today was movement up front; Everton had it abundence, despite being gifted three goals, while our front three were static. The play up the box was fine, but the amount of times Richardson stopped the attack because there was no movement in front of him, was very annoying. Gabby was really poor today, a neither here not there performance out wide and didn't do enough when he moved to the middle in the second half. Andi had no impact, while Benteke looked quiet, still a bit too soon. N'Zogbia was equal to Gabby in many respects.
I think taking out one of the midfielders, say Richardson, and brining Sanchez in and pushing Westwood more advanced, may help, especially if the full backs keep showing a willingness to overlap. The front three though have to move, switch, come deep, make runs. We are creating few chances, because we are too easy to pick up.
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Gabby was really poor today,
How many times have we said that over the years.
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
What is really depressing Brian is that between us we have 126 yrs of following Aston Villa and cannot see any hope at all. You would think there would be a major investor out there who would be interested. But it doesn't look likely does it?
Following for over 50 years - game today was just 9 miles up the road - could have easily got tickets but thought - why bother with this clown at the helm. I really feel for my lad - born on Merseyside and following in his dad`s footsteps watching the Villa - my week will be just about bearable as my Evertonian mates will do not crow about beating us - it will be totally different for Jnr at school though.His question at 5pm tonight - Dad, why are we so shit ? Answers on a postcard to VCTM jnr - Formby, Merseyside
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http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9523062/lambert-we-didn
Lambert's genuine reaction. At least he says we didnt deserve anything. But he does say twice, we go again.
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The play up the box was fine, but the amount of times Richardson stopped the attack because there was no movement in front of him, was very annoying.
There was one bizarre move in the second half where Richardson reached the edge of the area, didn't know what to do with it, but opted - bizarrely - to loft the ball directly into Howard's hands.
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This is what I genuinely don't get.
This season, we've had some pretty awful crowds. That must, must be in large part because we've lost a lot of season ticket holders. It has to be.
Knowing that, given that we've had fewer shots on target than anyone else (and the next up from us, Burnley, have had ten more than we have), you'd think that maybe Randy would be thinking "hang on, this isn't working".
You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out why so many people have had enough - in fact, you could get a good overview of it just by reading this thread - but it just seems to go on, year after year.
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Gabby was really poor today,
How many times have we said that over the years.
Another poor performer rewarded with a new contract. Depressing indeed.
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It must be down to the ambition just being downgraded to simply a default position of survival. They don't seem to give a shit when they go out of cup competitions to lower league clubs, they give off negative vibes about the importance of even entering the one that has eluded us for 57 years, in favour of a squalid, soulless existence in this league.
I spoke to a nose at the end of last season. (one of the reasonable ones, there are a few). I was reacting angrily to the posting of that picture of the players celebrating with beer at the end of the season on the coach. And he said to me, 'but surely, it is job done, hence the celebration.' I know he was being tongue in cheek, but the way we act, there must be some credence to it.
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It'd be nice, if it really was a case of us just accepting survival, if we could at least do it with a bit of entertainment.
We're not only a poor side, we are also terrible to watch. The statistics tell a story, and they're all fucking awful.
11 shots on target in 8 matches, FFS. Why do they think anyone is going to want to carry on forking out lots of money to watch shit like that for very long?
We had a decent start, in the league, but they're lucky we did, because otherwise people would be dwelling on the fact we got our arses handed to us on our own patch by Leyton Orient in the league cup. That's one that gets swept under the carpet, but I think it is actually probably the most telling result of the season so far.
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Indeed. Can they not see that we are a laughing stock in terms of the way we play?
Does anyone seriously think we will beat QPR on Monday week. Every team we play that has been shit seems to get their season started by playing us.
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I'm starting to think the illness vs Arsenal was all a red herring to get us back to playing shit counter attacking football again. Because to that point we hadn't been in the games that preceded it.
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Lambert's league record at Villa. W 23 D 20 L 41! And throw in the cups as well.........
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It must be the worst record of any manager? Has a manager ever lost that many games at home and kept his job??
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27.3% win ratio.
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If you want to get really depressed, home league record is W 12 D 9 L 21!
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Not in the least bit surprised by today. Still think we will give my prediction of being bottom at Xmas a fair old rattle. Bar lumping the ball into the box and hoping for a break off Benteke, really cant see a goal threat otherwise. Too many of our players are samey - Weimann, Cole, Nzogbia, Westwood, Cleverley, Richardson - none of them can go past a player or have the gumption to do anything but make inoffensive passes around the centre circle. ID be tempted to give up on Nzogbia already, he looks well and truly done at this level.
Gabby and Weimann spend more time on the ground that on their feet. Great lads to wave their hands and moan at the referee though. Our full backs offer little width, Cissokho in particular really is appalling with the ball. Hutton at least gave it a go today but he was one of the few that had a bit of spirit about him. The third goal summed up us, Weimann and Richardson hiding as the Everton full backs combine for a simple goal with no runners tracking them. After the effort Guzan threw into today, Id give Given another chance in goals too.
Piss poor squad, management team and board. AVFC 2014.
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Last 17 Premier League Games:
Won 4, Drawn 2, Lost 11, Goals For 11, Goals Against 35.
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Lambert gets a new three year contract as a reward!!
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Lambert gets a new three year contract as a reward!!
Four.
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Lambert gets a new three year contract as a reward!!
Four.
Shit a golf too now are we!
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
i didn't see the match. Is there any merit in lambert's view, or is he talking shit? I can accept sometimes it's just not your day, but 3-0 away at Everton is disturbing.
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I wonder what bought about the apparent lethargy today ? I can sort of accept defeat but not trying is hard to swallow. Has something changed in the camp ? Or is it just shot confidence ?
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Lambert is fairly accurate in his assessment.
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Basically what McLeish and Lambert have combined to do is to bring about a culture of defeatism at Villa Park. McLeish regarded a 0-0 as an excellent result and a 0-1 as very creditable. Lambert has picked up where McLeish left off and has done everything in his power to depress our expectations. Up to these two dreadful managers we have had some who were equally bad - you know them, I do not need to list them but I have never in all my years as a Villa fan ever known this air of defeatism which hangs over the team and the manager and the coaches. Even when we were utterly shambolic on our way to the third tier we lived in hope of bouncing back. I have used the phrase many times over the last four years but we genuinely believed that we would rise again. We hoped for glory. Now we have been brainwashed into merely hoping to survive.
I genuinely think I would sooner see us like Glasgow Rangers clawing our way back to self respect than endure this acceptance of us being a second rate club not really expecting very much.
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Thus far this season, 11 shots on target, 4 goals scored. Southampton had 11 shots on target today, and scored twice as many goals as we have all season.
Easily bottom of the league for shots on target, equal bottom for goals scored with Burnley and QPR.
It's also worth noting that 4 of those 11 shots on target came in one match (Hull), that we played Newcastle (who are shite) at home, gave them 60% possession and managed not a single shot on target, and that the Hull stats leave 7 shots on target from the other 7 games.
In all that, we got knocked out of the capital one cup at home to Leyton Orient.
Conceded 11, scored 0 in the last four matches. I know these were decent sides, but really, we were utterly limp today against Everton, who haven't been particularly good this season, and who seem to have been promoted to unreachables.
It is also notable that in every single game this season, we have had less than 50% possession (closest was 45 against Hull), and in every match our opponents have completed far more passes than us - and when I say far more, I mean properly far more (i.e. Newcastle completed 439 passes to our 266).
On the plus side, the performance at Liverpool was excellent, and tactically shrewd. The one at home to Hull was impressive in parts (although we tried to throw it away).
Somewhere in all that there is a bigger picture of where we are heading. Sadly, I can't see very much to be hopeful about.
We still seem pathologically unable to pass the ball with any regularity. We get outpassed by everyone. We get out-possessed by everyone. We can't fashion chances, and when we do, we can't get them on target.
I appreciate we have injuries, but the place where we most have injuries - the defence - isn't even the area where we look most deficient. We knew Benteke was going to be out until now. We knew Kozak was out. He has had a setback, but wasn't really expected back by now in any case.
We look like we can defend better when we try, that's a positive, but as for all the rest, I genuinely don't see a single sign that we are improving. I am not going to say I think we are going to get relegated, that's daft at this point, but I don't see anything to suggest we are significantly better than we were last season - and what worries me most is that we are still failing to get the basics right.
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Everton were always going to win this.
We have our two most influential players back from injury - one 6 months, Delph out, Senderos out.
They had arguably their strongest side out, have not won at home all season, had a two week break to focus on a mini cup final for them, they are good side and have proved it in the last few seasons.
We have lost to four teams of which three will finish top four and Everton top eight.
Lambert haters will love this, he has kept us for two seasons, relax and breathe.
We have a run of games 8 games now to pick up points and I will be at QPR supporting my club.
UTV
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Thus far this season, 11 shots on target, 4 goals scored. Southampton had 11 shots on target today, and scored twice as many goals as we have all season.
Easily bottom of the league for shots on target, equal bottom for goals scored with Burnley and QPR.
It's also worth noting that 4 of those 11 shots on target came in one match (Hull), that we played Newcastle (who are shite) at home, gave them 60% possession and managed not a single shot on target, and that the Hull stats leave 7 shots on target from the other 7 games.
In all that, we got knocked out of the capital one cup at home to Leyton Orient.
Conceded 11, scored 0 in the last four matches. I know these were decent sides, but really, we were utterly limp today against Everton, who haven't been particularly good this season, and who seem to have been promoted to unreachables.
It is also notable that in every single game this season, we have had less than 50% possession (closest was 45 against Hull), and in every match our opponents have completed far more passes than us - and when I say far more, I mean properly far more (i.e. Newcastle completed 439 passes to our 266).
On the plus side, the performance at Liverpool was excellent, and tactically shrewd. The one at home to Hull was impressive in parts (although we tried to throw it away).
Somewhere in all that there is a bigger picture of where we are heading. Sadly, I can't see very much to be hopeful about.
We still seem pathologically unable to pass the ball with any regularity. We get outpassed by everyone. We get out-possessed by everyone. We can't fashion chances, and when we do, we can't get them on target.
I appreciate we have injuries, but the place where we most have injuries - the defence - isn't even the area where we look most deficient. We knew Benteke was going to be out until now. We knew Kozak was out. He has had a setback, but wasn't really expected back by now in any case.
We look like we can defend better when we try, that's a positive, but as for all the rest, I genuinely don't see a single sign that we are improving. I am not going to say I think we are going to get relegated, that's daft at this point, but I don't see anything to suggest we are significantly better than we were last season - and what worries me most is that we are still failing to get the basics right.
10 points.
3 off 4th, 3 off 3rd bottom.
saves a lot of typing.
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Thus far this season, 11 shots on target, 4 goals scored. Southampton had 11 shots on target today, and scored twice as many goals as we have all season.
Easily bottom of the league for shots on target, equal bottom for goals scored with Burnley and QPR.
It's also worth noting that 4 of those 11 shots on target came in one match (Hull), that we played Newcastle (who are shite) at home, gave them 60% possession and managed not a single shot on target, and that the Hull stats leave 7 shots on target from the other 7 games.
In all that, we got knocked out of the capital one cup at home to Leyton Orient.
Conceded 11, scored 0 in the last four matches. I know these were decent sides, but really, we were utterly limp today against Everton, who haven't been particularly good this season, and who seem to have been promoted to unreachables.
It is also notable that in every single game this season, we have had less than 50% possession (closest was 45 against Hull), and in every match our opponents have completed far more passes than us - and when I say far more, I mean properly far more (i.e. Newcastle completed 439 passes to our 266).
On the plus side, the performance at Liverpool was excellent, and tactically shrewd. The one at home to Hull was impressive in parts (although we tried to throw it away).
Somewhere in all that there is a bigger picture of where we are heading. Sadly, I can't see very much to be hopeful about.
We still seem pathologically unable to pass the ball with any regularity. We get outpassed by everyone. We get out-possessed by everyone. We can't fashion chances, and when we do, we can't get them on target.
I appreciate we have injuries, but the place where we most have injuries - the defence - isn't even the area where we look most deficient. We knew Benteke was going to be out until now. We knew Kozak was out. He has had a setback, but wasn't really expected back by now in any case.
We look like we can defend better when we try, that's a positive, but as for all the rest, I genuinely don't see a single sign that we are improving. I am not going to say I think we are going to get relegated, that's daft at this point, but I don't see anything to suggest we are significantly better than we were last season - and what worries me most is that we are still failing to get the basics right.
10 points.
3 off 4th, 3 off 3rd bottom.
saves a lot of typing.
Well, it saves a lot of typing if you're ignoring every thing other than points on the board, I'll give you that.
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Everton were always going to win this.
We have our two most influential players back from injury - one 6 months, Delph out, Senderos out.
They had arguably their strongest side out, have not won at home all season, had a two week break to focus on a mini cup final for them, they are good side and have proved it in the last few seasons.
We have lost to four teams of which three will finish top four and Everton top eight.
Lambert haters will love this, he has kept us for two seasons, relax and breathe.
We have a run of games 8 games now to pick up points and I will be at QPR supporting my club.
UTV
Yeah. What does everyone expect? Goals? Shots on target? Positive tactics?
I agree with you about "Lambert Haters". His 4 year contract extension was nowhere near sufficient. He should have been given a lifetime contract and a statue built after achieving that impossible dream of premiership survival two years in a row.
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Looks like the last five minute syndrome got started a bit early today. Lambert has to work on it!
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Everton were always going to win this.
We have our two most influential players back from injury - one 6 months, Delph out, Senderos out.
They had arguably their strongest side out, have not won at home all season, had a two week break to focus on a mini cup final for them, they are good side and have proved it in the last few seasons.
We have lost to four teams of which three will finish top four and Everton top eight.
Lambert haters will love this, he has kept us for two seasons, relax and breathe.
We have a run of games 8 games now to pick up points and I will be at QPR supporting my club.
UTV
Yeah. What does everyone expect? Goals? Shots on target? Positive tactics?
I agree with you about "Lambert Haters". His 4 year contract extension was nowhere near sufficient. He should have been given a lifetime contract and a statue built after achieving that impossible dream of premiership survival two years in a row.
"he has kept us up for two seasons" is a sentence which perfectly encapsulates how much our expectations have taken a kicking.
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
i didn't see the match. Is there any merit in lambert's view, or is he talking shit? I can accept sometimes it's just not your day, but 3-0 away at Everton is disturbing.
Sorry Robbo, that was me interpreting what I thought he would say in time honoured fashion.
He did say we got what we deserved but he also did mention picking ourselves up and going again twice.
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I haven't seen the game so it's hard to comment on today but it appears tactically we were appalling. I can understand counter attack smash and grab football but when you go 1 down, 2 down there needs to be a plan B , we don't seem to have that.
What's worrying is we are even worse at home and I can't see it improving as things stand.
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The other thing of note is it doesn't sound like Everton played particularly well or had to graft hard for the 3-0 win ?
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I will be at QPR supporting my club.
UTV
Well I apologise to you, you are a considerably better supporter than me, let me pay homage.
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Kept us up for two seasons? What exactly is the fucking point. From where I sit, this isn't fun .it isn't entertaining.it is shit.
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New contract new fucking contract new new fucking contract.
Drugs, alcohol, blackmail and quite possibly arson must be involved.
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You really could pick any other match thread, it's all the same. Some things I note from this one.... Who on earth thinks we actually have or ever played 4-3-3? It's 4-3-1-1 or now and again 3-5-1-1.
My gripe is total lack of width and continually playing players (Wiemann) out of position. You may wonder why Lambert was successful in his pre-Villa days. Playing a narrow system in the lower leagues is a novelty and fewer teams have the ability and nous to combat it. In the premiership you are soon found out. We actually play the same system as Chelsea. There it ends. Where Hazard can take 3 players on and destroy teams we have Delph carrying the whole side. He will leave us soon.
Anyone can take a defeat, but's it's the manner that affects us all. To lose without dignity and without the desire and belief is not acceptable and we NOT prepared! We are Aston Villa after all and we should never be proud just to hold the champions at home for 82 mins.
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Kept us up for two seasons? What exactly is the fucking point. From where I sit, this isn't fun .it isn't entertaining.it is shit.
I think you have to temper all the lows with the occasional high such as the win at anfield which felt brilliant. Does that make it all worthwhile is debatable I guess.
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Hmm my concern about our lack of chances earlier in the season is being realised. We were never likely to keep up our defensive strength, and we need to massively improve going forward.
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The other thing of note is it doesn't sound like Everton played particularly well or had to graft hard for the 3-0 win ?
It was ridiculously easy for them. Particularly their backline. Baines has been struggling badly this season too. He barely broke sweat and had the freedom of the park.
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We're a poor side, but looking around the Premier League I doubt we're poorer than 17th. That's not exactly inspiring, but until the (potential!) takeover goes through we'll do nothing better than merely exist.
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We where pretty poor and let them pass around at will.
Lerner was there today ,if he thinks the fun is coming back into owning us this game was enough to make him think again.
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That was shit. Utter shit. And we've got another 4 years of this to come.
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We're a poor side, but looking around the Premier League I doubt we're poorer than 17th. That's not exactly inspiring, but until the (potential!) takeover goes through we'll do nothing better than merely exist.
Much as I have pointed out the grimness of this side, I agree, I still think there will be 3 sides poorer than us.
However, that'd be fine if we were Wigan Athletic or QPR, but we're not, we're Aston Villa. To see our outlook and expectations so firmly shat upon to this point is utterly depressing.
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I don't think we'll go down, but Benteke's back now the lack of chances excuse has to go out of the window. We need to start producing a lot more goal scoring opportunities and just be a much more exciting team.
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The continual frustration is we've shown in glimpses how well we can play. And then a week later pass it like a Sunday league side again.
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The fact we picked a pretty attacking line up too is also galling because on the pitch we were so negative. Before the match kicked off it looked like we were really gonna go for it.
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I am not convinced there will be 3 worse teams, another couple of injuries and we are really in it.
The bigger problem though is the balance of the squad and the attitude of the players does not look right.
Add to this appalling tactics and just poor players or players not performing Gabby Weiman Nzogbia.
Jut leaving Benteke up front to hoof the ball up to, is not going to cut it.
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I agree. I think 18th place has our name on it.
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I've been at work all day and haven't seen any of the game but this post match thread is so pessimistic.
You need to stay optimistic, the way I see it is the glass is 10% full not 90% empty.
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No chance we are going down imo. If we are so nailed on for the drop how nailed on must QPR, Burnley, Sunderland, Palace etc be?
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I think the 'certainties for relegation' talk is short-termist madness. If we continue to lose in this manner to teams who really aren't that good then sure, worry, but as far as I'm concerned we're one point above my best hope, given the fixture list. We could have beaten Newcastle, but we were sure to lose to Liverpool - and yet we won.
Our start to the season was, in points terms, nearly perfect. To those saying the style is limited, I reply that I agree, but that those limitations lie well above 17th place. Losing several games to the best sides in the league (and honestly, who gets that fixture list? We have to be reasonable here) isn't proof of impending disaster.
We're shite - but I don't think we're that shite.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
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I think we will be fine, by that I mean 14/15th. Burnley, palace, QPR plus Sunderland all look woeful .
But just being better than them is no way to go on. Where's the inspiration for anyone other than players going through the motions and pocketing 40k a week.
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That was total garbage today from start to finish, not a great choice by me to make my first appearance at Goodison for probably our worst display there in a decade.
Hutton was our best player by a distance, fair play to him. Benteke was a little off the pace in touch but will get there, CNZ was a waste of space.
In fairness Everton are in a false position. Today was pretty much the first time this season they've put out their first choice 11 and last year it was a top 6 team, you could see the gulf in quality in terms of ability and coaching philosophy sadly.
QPR massive game now for me as I don't even want to think about five straight losses going into Spurs who routinely turn us over at Villa Park nowadays and then away to an inform West Ham with plenty of pace and power in attack.
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I think we will be fine, by that I mean 14/15th. Burnley, palace, QPR plus Sunderland all look woeful .
But just being better than them is no way to go on. Where's the inspiration for anyone other than players going through the motions and pocketing 40k a week.
But we are woeful. We are no better than any of the clubs you have named. We could get relegated unless someone comes in with the funds to save us.
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I think we will be fine, by that I mean 14/15th. Burnley, palace, QPR plus Sunderland all look woeful .
But just being better than them is no way to go on. Where's the inspiration for anyone other than players going through the motions and pocketing 40k a week.
But we are woeful. We are no better than any of the clubs you have named. We could get relegated unless someone comes in with the funds to save us.
Well we are better than them. Which is why they are below us, QPR and Burnley combined have less points than us and getting stuffed for 8 in the case of Sunderland.
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I think we will be fine, by that I mean 14/15th. Burnley, palace, QPR plus Sunderland all look woeful .
But just being better than them is no way to go on. Where's the inspiration for anyone other than players going through the motions and pocketing 40k a week.
But we are woeful. We are no better than any of the clubs you have named. We could get relegated unless someone comes in with the funds to save us.
We are not as bad as them. We have proved at times (albeit very brief ones) we are a top 10 side. Granted if vlaar goes and Delph is out etc we may have complications but as it stands there are some really woeful sides below us.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
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Very poor. Need to rethink for next week as we need to take 3 points to set the tone for the rest of the season. Too good for those battling relegation but not good enough against the top 6. I'd take that but today was quite worrying.
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Hmm. It's all turned extremely humdrum after a bright start. All very 2013.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
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Funny how the drive back from Merseyside seemed longer after losing to Everton than it did after beating Liverpool.
Anyhow, the post match analysis from Sox Sports News is that Villa were absolute crap.
As has been mentioned, the Scottish Cafu for Villa'sbest player. However, I doubt that he's got any voice left now after all the shouting he had to do at Zog to get him to make even a token effort at tracking back with Baines.
That losing Baker seriously weakened the defence can never be good. I hope that Spongey Ron was just off the pace coming back from injury because he was very poor.
I don't understand playing Gabby just behind Tekkers. That position requires the ability to pick a pass. Gabby cannot do this and should not be asked to try to.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
No we were playing well, and comments on here and in the press back that up.
I am disappointed with today. It seems that every time there is a break we come back somehow behind the pace. I am expecting better things next week but can't understand why we didn't get anything today.
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What sucks is that we've had a fortnight to think about how to beat Everton. You suspect that even though our weaknesses are obvious, Martinez took whatever threat we pose seriously. I picture Lambert writing our tactics on the back of a fag packet this morning.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
No we were playing well, and comments on here and in the press back that up.
I am disappointed with today. It seems that every time there is a break we come back somehow behind the pace. I am expecting better things next week but can't understand why we didn't get anything today.
We didn't get anything today because Everton wanted it more than us, dominated the entire game, played better than us, have buckets more desire, confidence and chemistry than us, have a better manager than us. I could go on for ages here
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I think we will be fine, by that I mean 14/15th. Burnley, palace, QPR plus Sunderland all look woeful .
But just being better than them is no way to go on. Where's the inspiration for anyone other than players going through the motions and pocketing 40k a week.
But we are woeful. We are no better than any of the clubs you have named. We could get relegated unless someone comes in with the funds to save us.
The really annoying thing is that it doesn't need funds to significantly improve what we're seeing. The simple truth is some half decent coaching and a game plan that involves more than cowering on the edge our own penalty area would go a long way to improving both our style and points total.
Hey who knows it might just stop being such negative experience watching us toil away, more in hope than expectation.
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The Roy Keane effect has rapidly worn off. Or perhaps my assertion that he is actually TSM in a Roy Keane beardy mask is not without basis.
Whichever way you look at it this team has the hallmark of TSM's surrender monkey tactics written all over it.
Just like Arsenal, and, to an extent, Moss Side Oil Barons, Everton's weakness has been their defence. So the obvious tactic was to get at them. But apparently we barely tried to do that - again. Absolute fecking jayneeus from Lambert. We're not only losing, we're rendering the entire planet comatose from boredom and driving our own fans away in the process.
I just wish I could find a job that paid me several million a year to consistently get things as wrong as it's possible to get them, and yet be rewarded with a new 4 year contract. Perhaps the owner's logic is to deflect attention from his own seemingly limitless incompetence by having someone even more clueless in the managers seat. I can't think of any other reason why Lambert is still there.
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I am on a couple of days holiday and only just saw the score, w as I suprised ?
I guess the answer is no we go nowhere with lambert , time to change. But that will not happen to quickly heads down and support the team
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That's the thing - we may have some very average players in the squad, but we have some excellent ones too, and I refuse to believe they would play this poorly under a manager who is proven to be a success. When I play my acoustic guitar, I'm bloody awful with it, but Keith Richards could probably wring a classic out of it in no time at all. If we had the right person in charge, this team could be lovely to watch. Unfortunately, we've got an owner who's just made a financial commitment that will see this manager in charge until at least the end of the season, no matter how appalling the football.
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In giving Paul Lambert four years after the two we have endured its clear what standards they are settling for regardless of whether Randy wants to sell or not. No incoming buyer in their right mind would want to keep this bozo on and yet if we do get an new buyer that's more money down the pisser just to get rid of him by cutting his contract. I have never ever felt like this about any Villa boss and that includes David O'Leary or Alex McCleish.
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What I cannot understand is Roy Keane. Surely he is told by Lambert how to coach his team to play.
Yet this must be a total opposite to what he believes. He has never played in such a negative minded mindset.
Take the Republic of Ireland. Also counter attacking but not defensive. Something isn't right.
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What I cannot understand is Roy Keane. Surely he is told by Lambert how to coach his team to play.
Yet this must be a total opposite to what he believes. He has never played in such a negative minded mindset.
Take the Republic of Ireland. Also counter attacking but not defensive. Something isn't right.
I just mentioned in the other thread. But Keane goes away during international breaks, so us returning to type just after might make sense?
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Awful manager. Awful tactics. Bargain basement buys that may be well meaning but are not good enough. I thought we'd be in a relegation battle before a ball was kicked and I cant see that changing over the next few months.
Yes, and no Deano. I agree with your first three sentences.
But,
Villa will not be troubled by relegation this season.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
No we were playing well, and comments on here and in the press back that up.
I am disappointed with today. It seems that every time there is a break we come back somehow behind the pace. I am expecting better things next week but can't understand why we didn't get anything today.
We didn't get anything today because Everton wanted it more than us, dominated the entire game, played better than us, have buckets more desire, confidence and chemistry than us, have a better manager than us. I could go on for ages here
Well, that's me told.
Off to drink gin in the bath. Sayonara.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
No we were playing well, and comments on here and in the press back that up.
I am disappointed with today. It seems that every time there is a break we come back somehow behind the pace. I am expecting better things next week but can't understand why we didn't get anything today.
We didn't get anything today because Everton wanted it more than us, dominated the entire game, played better than us, have buckets more desire, confidence and chemistry than us, have a better manager than us. I could go on for ages here
Well, that's me told.
Off to drink gin in the bath. Sayonara.
I know it's really depressing but don't do anything stupid who's gonna run GTC ;)
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
Do you mean us? We've lost 4 on the bounce and had something like 4 shots at goal in total.
Well, we won earlier this season. I don't think I dreamt it.
Even looked good.
Stoke win was via a goal keeping error.
Hull win was just about deserved but we were hanging on.
Liverpool was a snatch and grab job with a solid defensive display.
Over a month later, back to the usual shite. At least we can take some comfort in the fact that after we lose four in a row we normally draw the fifth.
No we were playing well, and comments on here and in the press back that up.
I am disappointed with today. It seems that every time there is a break we come back somehow behind the pace. I am expecting better things next week but can't understand why we didn't get anything today.
We didn't get anything today because Everton wanted it more than us, dominated the entire game, played better than us, have buckets more desire, confidence and chemistry than us, have a better manager than us. I could go on for ages here
Well, that's me told.
Off to drink gin in the bath. Sayonara.
I know it's really depressing but don't do anything stupid who's gonna run GTC ;)
You have a point, there.
Onwards and upwards! UTV!
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That was fucking shit. We are an abject football team. We should have sacked Lambert in May.
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No chance we are going down imo. If we are so nailed on for the drop how nailed on must QPR, Burnley, Sunderland, Palace etc be?
Christ on a stick...8 games in and we are looking at the teams who might be worse than us to keep us up..
Progress eh!
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No chance we are going down imo. If we are so nailed on for the drop how nailed on must QPR, Burnley, Sunderland, Palace etc be?
Christ on a stick...8 games in and we are looking at the teams who might be worse than us to keep us up..
Progress eh!
Some are, i'm not. I believe we'll be mid-table.
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Match Of The Day can do one as well.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
When was the last time we were good?
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
When was the last time we were good?
Dear SH please look at the big collection of posts above with Goldie7. And Des.
I can't do all that again.
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Paul Lambert felt that his side were a little unfortunate to lose 3-0 away at Everton today. Speaking to Skysports, Lambert felt they were unlucky to have a goal disallowed at a crucial time.
'We got off to a bad start, but I felt we really took the game to Everton after their first goal, we had chances to equalise and Alan Hutton was unlucky with his effort. The Half Time whistle came at the wrong time as we were well on top. Then we got caught cold after the break with their second. I think the main turning point was Christian's disallowed goal, I thought the decision to award a foul was very harsh. You get that one and you're back to 2-1 and who knows. Their third comes when we are chasing the game. I cannot fault the effort of the lads, we have been excellent in the first few games. We have another game next week and we go again to try and get things going again.'
It was a clear push, hardly any of us in the lower tier protested. Clutching at straws a little bit as we hardly created anything else.
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Yes , get well soon mr underhill. I watched Citeh Spuds in the early game on BT Sport. It was a cracker of a game and I found myself thinking the unthinkable, why the f*ck to I support Aston Villa? 69 years unbroken following them home and away and I find myself getting very close to saying enough is enough. At the start of the season I was called a "Lambert hater" in these pages for saying I thought the good start could be another false dawn. I don't hate him, I just think he is useless. A useless manager with a brand new four year contract. That is the main reason why I wish I followed some other smarter outfit.
What is really depressing Brian is that between us we have 126 yrs of following Aston Villa and cannot see any hope at all. You would think there would be a major investor out there who would be interested. But it doesn't look likely does it?
Financial fair puts paid to that hope. Who's going to buy a club that they're not allowed to invest in to compete with the elite.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
When was the last time we were good?
Dear SH please look at the big collection of posts above with Goldie7. And Des.
I can't do all that again.
I have but it still doesn't explain how we can be good one week then poor the next. We are very rarely good but quite consistently poor.
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We are where Everton were late nineties to early noughties - a big club, happy just to stay up and stinking out the division.
Personnel-wise, there are worse teams than us again this year. And that might be enough.
But I can't think of any other club in the top division that displays so little attacking intent. This is not just a bad spell, or down to Benteke's injury. Apart from February - May 2013, it has been like this for the majority of Lambert's time at the club.
Four more years of this? Christ.
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I just don't understand how the same team can be so good one week and so bad on another.
When was the last time we were good?
Dear SH please look at the big collection of posts above with Goldie7. And Des.
I can't do all that again.
I have but it still doesn't explain how we can be good one week then poor the next. We are very rarely good but quite consistently poor.
Beats me, too.
Thought we would be really good today, given the returners.
Strange.
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I'm finding I just don't really care any more, which is genuinely quite sad. I can pay, adding up travel, tickets and spending on the day, what would make up for me a week's wages to see a bunch of millionaire also-rans lose year after year with no hope of us actually achieving very much or I can pay £4 entry to my local team who, whilst not actually the best football, are far more enjoyable to watch than the Villa nowadays and being in the Evostick League they don't break the bank to spend an afternoon watching. It's quite nice to be part of a community football club that seems to care about more than being part of The Best League In The World (TM) on TV and less about the actual local communities and fans of The Best League In The World (TM).
I went into the bar at the ground at half-time today to see we were losing and shrugged. I went back in at the end to see we'd lost and didn't even bother with the shrugging.
What annoys - almost upsets - me most is how much I used to love Villa growing up, how excited I would be and how I'd spend all week thinking and talking about the next game. Now I really don't care, and it's sad to realise I've fallen out of love with Aston Villa. I don't even get angry at it any more, I'm just resigned to how poor they are and how little it will change.
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I'm finding I just don't really care any more, which is genuinely quite sad. I can pay, adding up travel, tickets and spending on the day, what would make up for me a week's wages to see a bunch of millionaire also-rans lose year after year with no hope of us actually achieving very much or I can pay £4 entry to my local team who, whilst not actually the best football, are far more enjoyable to watch than the Villa nowadays and being in the Evostick League they don't break the bank to spend an afternoon watching. It's quite nice to be part of a community football club that seems to be about more than being part of The Best League In The World (TM) on TV and less about the actual local communities and fans of The Best League In The World (TM).
I went into the bar at the ground at half-time today to see we were losing and shrugged. I went back in at the end to see we'd lost and didn't even bother with the shrugging.
What annoys - almost upsets - me most is how much I used to love Villa growing up, how excited I would be and how I'd spend all week thinking and talking about the next game. Now I really don't care, and it's sad to realise I've fallen out of love with Aston Villa. I don't even get angry at it any more, I'm just resigned to how poor they are and how little it will change.
I know what you mean.
I ditched my season ticket after the McLeish season, after having one for years. In the first Lambert year I picked and chose my matches and was actually quite positive at the end of it. Circumstances (financial) meant I couldn't have renewed if i wanted to for his second season, although I probably wouldn't have wanted to anyway, so I picked and chose matches - and I didn't choose many of them at all.
I haven't been at all this season, and genuinely don't think I am missing anything.
Basically, the club aren't trying, so why should I?
I know you can shout "what sort of supporter are you?" yada yada yada, but I went to my first match almost 40 years ago, have spent fuck knows how much money and time watching them, have the club running through my veins, as have my family for high on a hundred years, but I really just don't care any more.
The problem isn't that I have turned out that way, it is that I know loads of people in almost the same situation, who have just decided they've had enough over the last four ambition-free years.
The obvious dropping of any pretence of ambition, the acceptance of the truly mediocre, the levelling down of expectations to a situation where Everton have joined the clubs we can't think of competing with, the mental owner with his semi-literate press releases, the whole thing, bollocks to it.
This club is going absolutely nowhere, and the most depressing thing is watching people making excuses for what is going to be yet another year of utter shitness. Call me cynical, but I'd have thought things like shots on target are the minimum we can hope for as fans, but we don't seem to get very many of them. God knows how long this is going to go on.
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I couldn't really give a fuck either anymore and, as I said on the match thread, I no longer recognise the club I fell in love with and which has run through my dad's side of the family for three generations. Football has lost almost all of the magic it used to have and I barely watch it anymore. I haven't been for nigh on two years and have no intention of going any time soon. I can't really fathom out why so many people still go when just two clubs compete to buy the league. And that is all it is, there's nothing more to it these days despite the endless media hype, which just keeps wankers like Savage and Micky Quinn in jobs - they'd be too thick to do anything else. I shall soon be lost to it altogether. I love H and V because it keeps me in touch with how the game used to be and people who can remember those good times.
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We are where Everton were late nineties to early noughties - a big club, happy just to stay up and stinking out the division.
Personnel-wise, there are worse teams than us again this year. And that might be enough.
But I can't think of any other club in the top division that displays so little attacking intent. This is not just a bad spell, or down to Benteke's injury. Apart from February - May 2013, it has been like this for the majority of Lambert's time at the club.
Four more years of this? Christ.
Spot on.
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Why the fuck did we give him a new contract? If we're as skint as Randy likes us to be why didn't we just bear the unbearable and walk away. But four more shitting years? Really I don't think I can take it. Not suicide, just giving up on watching Villa. That sounds fucking great right now.
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I'm finding I just don't really care any more, which is genuinely quite sad. I can pay, adding up travel, tickets and spending on the day, what would make up for me a week's wages to see a bunch of millionaire also-rans lose year after year with no hope of us actually achieving very much or I can pay £4 entry to my local team who, whilst not actually the best football, are far more enjoyable to watch than the Villa nowadays and being in the Evostick League they don't break the bank to spend an afternoon watching. It's quite nice to be part of a community football club that seems to be about more than being part of The Best League In The World (TM) on TV and less about the actual local communities and fans of The Best League In The World (TM).
I went into the bar at the ground at half-time today to see we were losing and shrugged. I went back in at the end to see we'd lost and didn't even bother with the shrugging.
What annoys - almost upsets - me most is how much I used to love Villa growing up, how excited I would be and how I'd spend all week thinking and talking about the next game. Now I really don't care, and it's sad to realise I've fallen out of love with Aston Villa. I don't even get angry at it any more, I'm just resigned to how poor they are and how little it will change.
I know what you mean.
I ditched my season ticket after the McLeish season, after having one for years. In the first Lambert year I picked and chose my matches and was actually quite positive at the end of it. Circumstances (financial) meant I couldn't have renewed if i wanted to for his second season, although I probably wouldn't have wanted to anyway, so I picked and chose matches - and I didn't choose many of them at all.
I haven't been at all this season, and genuinely don't think I am missing anything.
Basically, the club aren't trying, so why should I?
I know you can shout "what sort of supporter are you?" yada yada yada, but I went to my first match almost 40 years ago, have spent fuck knows how much money and time watching them, have the club running through my veins, as have my family for high on a hundred years, but I really just don't care any more.
The problem isn't that I have turned out that way, it is that I know loads of people in almost the same situation, who have just decided they've had enough over the last four ambition-free years.
The obvious dropping of any pretence of ambition, the acceptance of the truly mediocre, the levelling down of expectations to a situation where Everton have joined the clubs we can't think of competing with, the mental owner with his semi-literate press releases, the whole thing, bollocks to it.
This club is going absolutely nowhere, and the most depressing thing is watching people making excuses for what is going to be yet another year of utter shitness. Call me cynical, but I'd have thought things like shots on target are the minimum we can hope for as fans, but we don't seem to get very many of them. God knows how long this is going to go on.
Sums it up for the way I feel as well. It is a funny thing, because when there was no football last weekend, I felt a bit bored. Which means that with a modicom of ambition in the club, I could probably get excited about watching Villa again. But probably not with this manager in charge. I honestly think he would still be shit with £100m to spend.
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I'm finding I just don't really care any more, which is genuinely quite sad. I can pay, adding up travel, tickets and spending on the day, what would make up for me a week's wages to see a bunch of millionaire also-rans lose year after year with no hope of us actually achieving very much or I can pay £4 entry to my local team who, whilst not actually the best football, are far more enjoyable to watch than the Villa nowadays and being in the Evostick League they don't break the bank to spend an afternoon watching. It's quite nice to be part of a community football club that seems to be about more than being part of The Best League In The World (TM) on TV and less about the actual local communities and fans of The Best League In The World (TM).
I went into the bar at the ground at half-time today to see we were losing and shrugged. I went back in at the end to see we'd lost and didn't even bother with the shrugging.
What annoys - almost upsets - me most is how much I used to love Villa growing up, how excited I would be and how I'd spend all week thinking and talking about the next game. Now I really don't care, and it's sad to realise I've fallen out of love with Aston Villa. I don't even get angry at it any more, I'm just resigned to how poor they are and how little it will change.
I know what you mean.
I ditched my season ticket after the McLeish season, after having one for years. In the first Lambert year I picked and chose my matches and was actually quite positive at the end of it. Circumstances (financial) meant I couldn't have renewed if i wanted to for his second season, although I probably wouldn't have wanted to anyway, so I picked and chose matches - and I didn't choose many of them at all.
I haven't been at all this season, and genuinely don't think I am missing anything.
Basically, the club aren't trying, so why should I?
I know you can shout "what sort of supporter are you?" yada yada yada, but I went to my first match almost 40 years ago, have spent fuck knows how much money and time watching them, have the club running through my veins, as have my family for high on a hundred years, but I really just don't care any more.
The problem isn't that I have turned out that way, it is that I know loads of people in almost the same situation, who have just decided they've had enough over the last four ambition-free years.
The obvious dropping of any pretence of ambition, the acceptance of the truly mediocre, the levelling down of expectations to a situation where Everton have joined the clubs we can't think of competing with, the mental owner with his semi-literate press releases, the whole thing, bollocks to it.
This club is going absolutely nowhere, and the most depressing thing is watching people making excuses for what is going to be yet another year of utter shitness. Call me cynical, but I'd have thought things like shots on target are the minimum we can hope for as fans, but we don't seem to get very many of them. God knows how long this is going to go on.
Sums it up for the way I feel as well. It is a funny thing, because when there was no football last weekend, I felt a bit bored. Which means that with a modicom of ambition in the club, I could probably get excited about watching Villa again. But probably not with this manager in charge. I honestly think he would still be shit with £100m to spend.
I have to say, in his first year, by the end of the season, I was still behind him, I could see what he was trying to do, and I thought we did better than the table suggested, so I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
After last season, though, I thought we were fecking awful pretty much all year, we played sub McLeishian stuff, really terrible football, and didn't improve at all.
I honestly think the bloke is an absolute chancer. He is totally unconvincing tactically, he doesn't seem to be able to get us doing even the basics well. He's been a disaster.
All that I could live with, but the fact he has just been given a four year contract is just gob smacking incompetence from Lerner.
I used to think Lerner was a well intentioned idiot. Now I just think he's an idiot.
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That's the irony, if this was McLeish putting us through this now, he would be unsafe walking the streets. Lambert still doesn't get half the abuse McLeish did and I wonder why. I can only assume it is down to people now becoming totally apathetic with the whole shambles. I don't really know what to say about the owner anymore.
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That's the irony, if this was McLeish putting us through this now, he would be unsafe walking the streets. Lambert still doesn't get half the abuse McLeish did and I wonder why. I can only assume it is down to people now becoming totally apathetic with the whole shambles. I don't really know what to say about the owner anymore.
The main reason is that Lambert came *after* McLeish, people are resigned to it. We've had four years of utter shit, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. Look at the attendances, they're awful. Honestly, good luck flogging tickets for that shite - at the current rate, we can expect about 1.3 attempts on target per game.
Proud history etc etc
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I wanted him sacked ever since the 0-8 humiliation at Chelsea. I'll never forgive him for that day or the many humiliations he's put us through since. That's not to say he's the man responsible for our decline over the last 5 years, that would be Randy Lerner. I've said this many times on here but these last 4 - 5 seasons is the worst time I've ever known as a Villa fan. Relegation in '87 wasn't as disheartening as the mess we see now.
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Just in, great day out ruined by 90 minutes of football.
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I wanted him sacked ever since the 0-8 humiliation at Chelsea. I'll never forgive him for that day or the many humiliations he's put us through since. That's not to say he's the man responsible for our decline over the last 5 years, that would be Randy Lerner. I've said this many times on here but these last 4 - 5 seasons is the worst time I've ever known as a Villa fan. Relegation in '87 wasn't as disheartening as the mess we see now.
99% of managers would've been sacked after Bradford, he was the 1% that survived. I wanted him gone then but in fairness he won me over by how we finished that season playing decent football AND SCORING GOALS.
Since then aside from a handful of games we've played turgid uncreative rubbish for over a year now. We could play this style under Tony Pulis and probably get more home wins and finish higher up the league so Lambert isn't even achieving the maximum from this.
One thing I would say though, the state we're in, changing a manager would be cosmetic imo.
For proper new hope, fresh ideas and fresh impetus and momentum, we need fresh investement and a new owner. That's the crux of it in my mind, we're just plodding along otherwise as you see season in season out now.
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In 1987 it was absolutely terrible but at least you could see a way back and we all knew we would have some great memories from the games in the 2nd Division. I literally don't look forward to any games in this league any more. And if we went down, I think it would be a lot, lot harder to come back.
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The drink is wearing off and I've just read the thread and realised that manager got a new four year contract
I am exhausted and depressed of Paul lambert . Hes draining the life out of me . I need to do something else Saturday afternoons maybe until he has gone . I might be back 2018
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There is a bigger issue here for the club and that is membership, reading all the posts just brings home how nailed on Villa supporters who would walk over hot coals to get to a game are turning their backs on the club and once they find there is life after Villa it's almost impossible to get them back.
Then there is the long term issue of trying to get children to follow a club that disappoints week after week
when there are clubs who can give them immediate satisfaction and allows them to be winners in the playground.
Lerner has again shown how dumb he is in football matters by giving a manager who broken so many records for losing games,home games "etc" a new four year contract.
I cannot see any change at Villa until he has gone, out of all the failures at Villa over the last five years his ownership of the club has been by far the biggest.
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There is a bigger issue here for the club and that is membership, reading all the posts just brings home how nailed on Villa supporters who would walk over hot coals to get to a game are turning their backs on the club and once they find there is life after Villa it's almost impossible to get them back.
Then there is the long term issue of trying to get children to follow a club that disappoints week after week
when there are clubs who can give them immediate satisfaction and allows them to be winners in the playground.
Lerner has again shown how dumb he is in football matters by giving a manager who broken so many records for losing games,home games "etc" a new four year contract.
I cannot see any change at Villa until he has gone, out of all the failures at Villa over the last five years his ownership of the club has been by far the biggest.
Depressing but absolutely spot on .
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Lerner has again shown how dumb he is in football matters by giving a manager who broken so many records for losing games,home games "etc" a new four year contract.
Who in turn gave a new contract to a right-back after a few games this season when he hadn't previously deemed him worthy of being in the squad since his arrival. Said right-back has in turn reverted to to looking like a defensive liability for both club and country.
The past few seasons have been littered with poor decisions at every level of the club.
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Sorry to join in with the whinge fest but 'disillusioned' should be our new club motto.
I echo everything that's been written in the last few pages. I chatted over Facebook with an old mate of mine who pretty much never missed a game, home or away in all the years I knew him - that'd be 25 plus years now. I was shocked to discover that he's given up on his season ticket and hasn't been this season yet and what's worse hasn't missed it. His kids, now young adults, have chucked it in too. Same goes for my Brother and his two kids but they gave up a couple of seasons back. None of them miss it and although still Villa fans just don't see the financial commitment as worthwhile right now.
If we're losing these types of supporters from attending games we've major issues. And I simply cannot say I blame them.
Please piss off Randy.
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This thread carries the repeating truth that more and more of us are giving up wanting to watch Villa.
Therein lies the biggedt threat to the club, not relegation (distinctly possible) finding a new owner (extremely unlikely) or not having the books balance (recoils in horror). No, the really nasty thing lurking in the shadows is collapsing gates.
We have all had our defining moments over the past four horrible years - 0 8 Chelsea, Bradford, Sheffield United, but mine was not a game or even on the pitch it was the shameful and inexcusable statement by Lambert that the lowering of the fans expectations was progress.
It defined an era for Aston Villa. It exposed the slavish stupidity of Lambert and the crushing football naivety of Lerner at a stroke.
I can take Villa defeats, we all can, it is what fans do. What wipes me out is the way we stink out games, home and away with what was described perfectly on this thread earlier as submcleishian football. Villa fans will not turn on Lambert because he wears the magic cloak of not being McLeish and they will not turn on Lerner because he is never there to turn on. They will simply stay away and once that fan base has eroded all the free flags and stupid half time games and cheapo ticket deals and junk mail in the post will not get it back again.
That is the real and present danger faced by Aston Villa FC (founded 1874).
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Joining in with the Love gone brigade, the two main characters Lamberk and Derner better known as Dumb and Dumber are stabbing the hearts of Villa supporters and slowly letting us bleed to death and wont even go to the first aid box for a plaster.
Onto our performances, how anyone can say we played or play 4-3-3 get a grip, it is 4-5-1 at best, with Gabby and Nzog more like 4-3-1.
We have a team of players who not one of them are comfortable on the ball, it is like a red hot potato, we have a midfield who are static, would never think of going past the forwards to give them options, relying at times on a player Nzog, who the only time he looks good in supporters eyes, is when he is injured or on the bench, then he's a game changer to many, we see his true worth when he starts.
Gabby must be black and blue this morning, as he spent most of the game throwing himself on the floor.
Guzan's distribution this season has been very poor, if he starts losing his shot stopping god help us, it may be time for Shay.
The Lambert and the 4 year contract, I would hope (talking about hope as in a owner who had a clue) I would say may not be as damaging as we may think, I would for sure have put a clause in there about a maximum pay off, regardless of length left.
Vlarr and Delph we will say goodbye to, as what professional footballer who has an ounce of self respect is willing to play for a club that has no and I state again No ambition, when other teams who have want you.
Groundhog day again from August 2014 to May 2015.
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Magic Mr Fox has a job on his hands attracting sponsorship/investment. Would you want your brand attached to the club at the moment?
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We were so relieved when deadly went but we are probably worse off now, at least Doug understood the game and no manager would have been able to get away with what the last two have delivered. We are no better off financially, the current owner has stopped investing in good players and settles for survival.
The best thing that could happen is a total walkout of supporters, painful i know, but while thirty odd thousand still present themselves week in week out to watch absolute crap Lerner will do nothing.
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Totally agree Robbo.
The big plus of having Doug Ellis against having Randy Lerner as club owner is that Ellis was visible. He was local and did not hide. He did some really terrible things but he did not hide. Lerner has ushered in a culture of introvert, secretive, manipulative, need-to-know, closed doors and managed (they think) media.
Lerner's time from the MON flounce onwards has been littered with behind closed doors, not in front of the fans, monumental balls ups from the rolling over to MON to the flight out to Corsica to bring in TSM to the creation of the Bomb Squad to the bullying by Culverhouse and Karsa to the departure of Albrighton to the pointless omission of Hutton to the mystery of the missing Okore and the new four year contract for a manager who has done absolutely nothing to merit it.
It is entirely possible that all these calumnies could have happened under Doug Ellis but there is one thing I am absolutely certain of and that is we would not have been stumbling around in the dark trying to piece a bit if evidence here and a leaked word from the Bodymoor Heath groundsman there to try to work out what was going in at our club.
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Magic Mr Fox has a job on his hands attracting sponsorship/investment. Would you want your brand attached to the club at the moment?
I was thinking this earlier. Sponsors were probably queuing up at Arsenal. It was about screwing as much as you could in what was effectively a bidding war. A bit different down at B6 I'd imagine.
I wonder if he relalises what a massive task he has on his hands and whether he has the fortitude to stick it out.
Hopefully he'll tell Randolf a few home truths.
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Predictable,so bloody predictable the outcome at Goodison yesterday. Most people who have watched us under this clueless clown of a manager,would have not been in the least surprised. When i read prior to the game that Everton had not won at home all season and had conceded something like 16 goals in seven games,i thought surely he must change his approach to the game and get at them ,but no,this is Lambert, as stubborn as they come and he will not change.His approach to the game at Loftus Road will be exactly the same.
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The annoying thing about yesterday was Everton were not that good either but they didn't need to be. We were terrible. Lambert is a very lucky man to still be in a job, never mind been given a new contract.
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If QPR, newly promoted, bottom of the league and piss poor for the first 8 games, beat Villa next week ... well at any other club after all the shit we have had under Lambert, the manager would be sacked. The most frustrating thing is that a) its highly likely QPR can and will beat us and that b) Lambert will still be in a job afterwards.
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If QPR, newly promoted, bottom of the league and piss poor for the first 8 games, beat Villa next week ... well at any other club after all the shit we have had under Lambert, the manager would be sacked. The most frustrating thing is that a) its highly likely QPR can and will beat us and that b) Lambert will still be in a job afterwards.
Lambert is completely untouchable hence the four year contract. He will go into next weeks game feeling under no pressure whatsoever. Pathetic from Lerner.
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I think Lambert has clung on so far when any other manager would have been hanging from the proverbial gallows because precisely what a lot of people have offered for their reasons for giving up season-tickets. Simply, we have become apathetic because of the dirge offered up over the past 4 seasons. Even when we last went down we were rubbish but tried to win. Under lambert we doing nothing and hoping something comes our way. Again, and again, and again. It gives us some success but when it doesn't work it stinks. It has barely worked under Lambert's time here.
When we've had enough of something as fans we've traditionally made our collective voices heard and done something about it. A manager has never been so lucky as Lambert has. Yes he's worked under restrictions, severely so. But is that enough to justify playing the same brand of unadventurous football that has so far netted 10 points but has shown barely a shot on goal during that time. Have we turned some corner or was that luck?
I think it's time for the collective voice to be heard again and we need to shake the torpor that has become part of the terraces. i so wanted Lambert to work out and to be honest I'm still a fan of his, but this just cannot be allowed to continue. He's go to go. And it has to start from the terraces.
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I bet we lose to QPR
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Haven't read the thread so I might be repeating,
but looking at the league table we are 3 points off top 4 and three points off bottom 3
So all is not lost, a win against QPR is very important now, a loss and we might well know which end we will be troubling as the season progresses
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I was somebody on the match thread who was saying it isn't as bad as everybody is making out. I am clearly in the minority but will try to clarify some things that I said here.
I know we weren't great yesterday. Again we struggled with creativity and let in goals that were avoidable. However, we have now finished a five game run against teams that are clearly better than us. It would be easy for all of the players to have let their heads drop, but I don't think next week they'll be nervous or worried about playing QPR. I think provided Redknapp is still QPR's manager, we have a good chance of beating them (and so we should)
Delph's injury is clearly a concern, but without making an utterly stupid comment by suggesting we should be pleased he's injured, our midfield hasn't been working for months and months now. Nothing is created for the forward line and too often it just gets bypassed. There is a chance that his injury will make Lambert readdress the midfield and try something different.
I saw some evidence yesterday that our passing was working well - as I said yesterday there were two moves around the half hour mark that were excellent. I know this isn't exactly non-stop waves of attack, but if that develops it will be good.
I know Lambert's downfalls. I know we've been on declines for years (possibly for a good decade or two really). I wasn't defending a 0-3 defeat for the sake of it. Football has changed - it's becoming less and less appealing for a fan outside the top four. However, I don't think we're quite 'the worst team by far in the Premier League' that some posters are suggesting. At the end of August, things were smelling a bit more of roses. If they still were now, we would have had to have played superbly against teams that are financially streets ahead of us. Sadly that's what it boils down to.
Finally, is calling Lambert 'Lamberk' that funny? Maybe I'll start calling N'Zogbia N'Zzzzzzzogbia forever because he gave away the ball for the second goal! Ha!!
Incidentally I had a dream that on the front page of The Times Lerner had said he'd take £0 for Aston Villa and was coming to some games high as a kite on marijuana. Maybe that explains some of your complaints on him?
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To be honest I lost all trust and confidence in Lerner the day he appointed Mcleish . When the news first broke I thought it was some sort of sick practical joke that had seeped it's way through social media. No. From that point on my view of Lerner changed . Only a man with complete contempt and disdain for the fanbase could have made that decision.
I will be honest we have ST's but we have yet to set foot in villa park this season and that's not changing anytime soon. I actually get more fun and entertainment nowadays watching spongebob squarepants than watching villa go through the motions.
It's very sad state of affairs as my blood runs claret and blue but this simply isn't enjoyable anymore .
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I was at Walsall v Crewe with members of my school football team being ball boys and girls. I just accepted each goal update with an air of disinterested resignation.
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Tom, you staunchly stood your ground on the match thread yesterday and fair play to you.
But, this stuff about playing teams who are 'clearly better than us' really gets on my tits.
For a start, we were above Everton in the league before yesterday, we still are.
I'm not stupid enough to think that makes us a better team than them, but I did expect we would give them a bloody game. As it was, they did not need to break sweat to comprehensively beat us.
Yes, some teams are better than us, of course they are, that's the nature of the game.
But for heavens sake, let's have an expectation that we will at least compete in EVERY game, and not accept that this is our lot.
'Can't compete against the big teams ' gets on my tits as much as 'winnable games'
There is a mindset that has developed where some casually write off defeats to 'big teams' because we have a QPR or Burnley Or Hull coming up sometime in the next 10 games.
Now, that really does get on my tits!.
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I actually wanted to log on to bbc football to find that he'd gone. Where's Leighton's flag making when you need him?
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And you can bet your balti pie money that the likes of QPR, Burnley or Hull won't be looking at us thinking "well, Villa are better than us, so let's not worry about giving them a game." They'll be looking to take all the points.
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I actually wanted to log on to bbc football to find that he'd gone. Where's Leighton's flag making when you need him?
Seriously, did you really think there was any chance of him being sacked after yesterday ? We could lose the next 5 and his job would be safe as houses, the man is under no pressure whatsoever.
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I will be honest we have ST's but we have yet to set foot in villa park this season and that's not changing anytime soon.
What's kind of protest is that? Isn't that a bit pointless?
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I actually wanted to log on to bbc football to find that he'd gone. Where's Leighton's flag making when you need him?
Seriously, did you really think there was any chance of him being sacked after yesterday ? We could lose the next 5 and his job would be safe as houses, the man is under no pressure whatsoever.
Which is why i said the pressure needs to come from the terraces.
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I will be honest we have ST's but we have yet to set foot in villa park this season and that's not changing anytime soon.
What's kind of protest is that? Isn't that a bit pointless?
Maybe it's not a protest as such.
But to me, it speaks volumes about the apathy that has been generated by the club.
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I will be honest we have ST's but we have yet to set foot in villa park this season and that's not changing anytime soon.
What's kind of protest is that? Isn't that a bit pointless?
I agree. We shouldn't have renewed in hindsight. There's a mixture of reasons we haven't been, summer holidays, moved kick off times coupled with an air of apathy and resignation to the present malaise . Spurs is moved to Sunday afternoon so can't do that, Leicester is moved too as I suspect will be Yanited then it's Xmas period so possibly can't go now until Liverpool on Jan 17. We are going up to burnley away a few of us but are debating just a night out and give the game itself a miss.
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And you can bet your balti pie money that the likes of QPR, Burnley or Hull won't be looking at us thinking "well, Villa are better than us, so let's not worry about giving them a game." They'll be looking to take all the points.
I think if N'Zogbia hadn't given the ball away two minutes into the second half, it might have been a lot different. (If my aunt had bollocks...) There's also a difference between a match between Villa and Hull/QPR/Burnley and a match between Villa and Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/(to a lesser degree, but still the £28m on Lukaku) Everton. There just is and that's the shitness of modern football. I might go and watch Boldmere St. Mikes next week for fairer competition and better quality football.
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Nobody cares whether you attend games, watch them on your laptop or walk your dog instead on a match day. Why there is the constant need for those sort of posts I have no idea.
Tom, I think you're right. We were decent in he first half and the passing up to the box was good. We had opportunities to put the ball in there, which we did five or so times, but the delivery wasn't great. That said, Everton looked panicked at the back, as they struggled to deal with the ball going in there. I thought we could get something out of the second half, which we started the stronger. The break and awful keeping from Guzan took any air out of the sails.
Everton are clearly nowhere near as good as any of the three sides we played prior to this, but if you say they'll finish top 7, you probably won't be far wrong. You gift anybody the goals we did yesterday and you will struggle.
The front three have to move. You saw the difference in Lukaku, Naismith, Osman dropping off and moving along the line. It created passing opportunities for their midfield. You don't have to be brilliant, as those three plainly aren't, to be capable. Benteke needs games to be sharp, so you can understand him, as his quality is undeniable. Gabby though in he first half was neither playing wide nor up front and you would often see him tucking in with midfield. Second half he was pushed centrally on Barry, and didn't do a very good job of pressuring fat boy, but he has to offer more.
I think that's why people are so keen on Grealish, because whatever his age or experience, he is massively different from the rest of the midfield. I think the three we played yesterday are too similar. We know Delph is out and that Sanchez will come in at some point, but a the moment Westwood deep and Richardson, Cleverley (who did play well as somebody else pointed out) don't offer enough variation. Taking one out, and I am thinking Richardson, maybe something to look at, pushing Cleverley further up with a more defined attacking role.
We have to start thinking about varying, as we aren't creating enough at the moment, quality of opposition aside. Important we don't lose to QPR and stop the rot. The chance to build some confidence then before we go into an interesting run of games against sides not too dissimilar than those we did well against in the first three games.
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Are there any links to highlights as I missed MotD.
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Morning chaps. What interests me is the fact that (according to a few of you) Lerner was there yesterday. That in itself is very unusual. Why did he come across the pond to show his face? I cannot think of a logical reason unless something is happening. I do hope so. Anything to raise our spirits. Anything at all will do
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And you can bet your balti pie money that the likes of QPR, Burnley or Hull won't be looking at us thinking "well, Villa are better than us, so let's not worry about giving them a game." They'll be looking to take all the points.
I think if N'Zogbia hadn't given the ball away two minutes into the second half, it might have been a lot different. (If my aunt had bollocks...) There's also a difference between a match between Villa and Hull/QPR/Burnley and a match between Villa and Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/(to a lesser degree, but still the £28m on Lukaku) Everton. There just is and that's the shitness of modern football. I might go and watch Boldmere St. Mikes next week for fairer competition and better quality football.
The thing about the 28 million for Lukaku is that in Evertons case their transfer budget is entirely dependant on their player sales and not their owner having bottomless pockets. If Everton have done one thing exceptionally over the last 10 years it's selling their best players for big money and not letting it effect their league level too much (if at all). They're almost always in the sort of top 8 area now.
Of course this goes back to how piss poorly we've been run under Lerner. Because we should be able to do the same. We're both similar clubs but we've got no one at the club who really understands football, or appears to have any nouse (and I hope Tom Fox is going to address this). The last major signing we made was Darren Bent, and that was funded from the Milner sale, and partly by the impending exit of Ashley Young.
Since selling Downing we've not made significant money on anyone, and even throughout the MON period we bought so much dross that we've ended up letting huge earners run down contracts or go for a lot less than we paid. That continued with McLeish and will continue with Lambert as most of his signings are currently out on loan because they're shit. They didn't cost much and they're not on high wages, but he's signed probably a dozen players who aren't remotely good enough in this league and who we'll lose money on.
Sometimes there's something to be said for selling a couple of your better players and trying to freshen things up with different players. However right now our best players are Vlaar and Delph who have 6 months left on deals, and then there's Benteke who will only sell for big money if he has a successful season.
I don't look at Everton and Southampton and believe we can't compete with their spending power. We can't compete with their nous and how they run their football clubs. Lerner is McGrath knows where and doesn't give a toss, and we keep making the wrong managerial appointments, leaving us stuck in the dark ages. Houllier had the right ideas, if not always the best execution, or physical health, but since then we've had managers stuck in archaic football, largely because Lerner is probably trying to recreate what O Neill did, which while fairly successful was still an old fashioned brand of football and his side was on the precipice of decline. He knew what he was doing when he fucked off. We were heading down the league. I don't think he'd have done much better than where Houllier finished in the end had he stayed.
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I would like to see Grealish start and Sanchez come in too for Richardson and N'Zogbia. But Lambert seems over cautious to me, so it will probably be the same old same old.
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I doubt it has much to do with their transfer sales. On top of Lukaku how much do you think Barry and Eto'o would be on? Who have they sold recently that would cover that kind of outlay?
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The fact that we sell out more or less every away game and our home attendances are what they are speaks volumes.
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Well I have bought cheap tickets up to the Jan 1st game and wish I hadn't to be honest - this "hope" thing is getting me down now - like many others I have spent a long time following this team and was lucky enough to experience the mid-70's to early-80's which were wonderful. I will be at the last home match as that will mark 40 years of watching the Villa but I have no enthusiasm for any of the games in between.
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I actually wanted to log on to bbc football to find that he'd gone. Where's Leighton's flag making when you need him?
Seriously, did you really think there was any chance of him being sacked after yesterday ? We could lose the next 5 and his job would be safe as houses, the man is under no pressure whatsoever.
Which is why i said the pressure needs to come from the terraces.
You're right. I think the reason Lerner/Lambert have got away with so much shit over the last few years is because the fan base have been so apathetic. Years back (under Ellis) the fans were much more vocal in their protest but I don't understand why we sit there and do nothing when we've been humiliated so many times. It's amost like Lerner has drained all the life out of the club. I've never known a period like this in all my years supporting the club.
The fans have to become more vocal. We can't put up with this shit anymore.
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I doubt it has much to do with their transfer sales. On top of Lukaku how much do you think Barry and Eto'o would be on? Who have they sold recently that would cover that kind of outlay?
They still had a hefty chunk of money from Fellaini, and I imagine being so well run they didn't piss away most of the Sky money on sorting out debts. I wouldn't say Everton's net spend is ever that high. Never in a million years would Kenwright have sat by and let O Neill do what he did for example.
I think they may cash in on Baines this summer too. He looks a little bit like he's about to hit a decline, but I reckon they'll still get at least 10 for him. Barkley could conceivably go for 20 million if they wanted to cash in. Would they suffer from losing from either? I don't think they would. They'd just get on with it.
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I actually wanted to log on to bbc football to find that he'd gone. Where's Leighton's flag making when you need him?
Seriously, did you really think there was any chance of him being sacked after yesterday ? We could lose the next 5 and his job would be safe as houses, the man is under no pressure whatsoever.
Which is why i said the pressure needs to come from the terraces.
You're right. I think the reason Lerner/Lambert have got away with so much shit over the last few years is because the fan base have been so apathetic. Years back (under Ellis) the fans were much more vocal in their protest but I don't understand why we sit there and do nothing when we've been humiliated so many times. It's amost like Lerner has drained all the life out of the club. I've never known a period like this in all my years supporting the club.
The fans have to become more vocal. We can't put up with this shit anymore.
If we lose against QPR, then the following game at VP will be a nightmare for Lambert. The fans (I hope) won't put up with it and we should be letting him know.
Of course that said, Lerner won't be there and will he really be bothered? He's got his head in the sand and his hand by his phone waiting for a buyer who doesn't seem to be coming.
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Another piece of history made yesterday. First time we have lost four in a row without scoring since 2001.
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I would like to see Grealish start and Sanchez come in too for Richardson and N'Zogbia. But Lambert seems over cautious to me, so it will probably be the same old same old.
Yes, I would as well. I'd possibly bring in Weimann for Gabby as well although that would rob us of the only pace we have.
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Supertom....Randy was there yesterday according to reports.
Something needs to change that's for sure.
UTV
The Doc
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Supertom....Randy was there yesterday according to reports.
Something needs to change that's for sure.
UTV
The Doc
He was there. They showed him on the live feed.
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Supertom....Randy was there yesterday according to reports.
Something needs to change that's for sure.
UTV
The Doc
I hope he's here at the next home game. He needs to be within the atmosphere if it's not going right. After that Bolton game he knew McLeish had to go. If by the time we're playing Spurs we've lost to QPR and are staring down the barrel of 6 straight losses, then surely even Randy would have to take some action. But I think he has to be at the game and not hear it in passing over the phone or the web. It's got to get him in the gut.
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I would like to see Grealish start and Sanchez come in too for Richardson and N'Zogbia. But Lambert seems over cautious to me, so it will probably be the same old same old.
Yes, I would as well. I'd possibly bring in Weimann for Gabby as well although that would rob us of the only pace we have.
I'm afraid moving very average players around the deck of the ship will make bog all difference. We're kidding ourselves to think that is the problem or that we are unnecessarily unlucky with injuries
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And you can bet your balti pie money that the likes of QPR, Burnley or Hull won't be looking at us thinking "well, Villa are better than us, so let's not worry about giving them a game." They'll be looking to take all the points.
I think if N'Zogbia hadn't given the ball away two minutes into the second half, it might have been a lot different. (If my aunt had bollocks...) There's also a difference between a match between Villa and Hull/QPR/Burnley and a match between Villa and Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/(to a lesser degree, but still the £28m on Lukaku) Everton. There just is and that's the shitness of modern football. I might go and watch Boldmere St. Mikes next week for fairer competition and better quality football.
Doesn't that apply equally to Leyton Orient and we all know what they did to a Premier League side but they should have known better!
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I came to the conclusion a long time ago that Lerner isn't very bright at all, and that is putting it politely. He's the american equivalent of 'nice but dim Tim' from the Harry Enfield sketches. I also think he conned us with a lot of his comments about the club and the rather superficial and/or unsustainable improvements he made when he took over.
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Next game I would be tempted to play Grealish and Cole. Two players who never look rushed or frightened of the ball. We need to instil as much composure in the side as we can. I'd put Cole behind Benteke, Grealish on the left, then Gabby or Weimann on the right. Have Westwood and Cleverley sitting and allow them to cover the fullbacks, rather than having Grealish and Gabby camped on the edge of their own box.
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Ellis and Lerner. It's like finally getting rid of Thatcher and finding out after a few years what Tony Blair was really like. All that hope dashed. I think that's one of the reasons for the apathy. The feeling that we're rotten from the top but whatever happens I can't see someone else coming in and fixing it.
We've got massive problems in the way we're run, but footballs so rotten beyond us that I don't have a massive amount of hope whatever happens to us. Even if s new owner came in and threw his money around like early days Lerner, I don't think we'd have any dreams of finishing in the top 4. So what's the point?
Looking at Southampton now, wow they must be having a great time, good manager, stumbled on a great team. Will they finish top 4? No. Top 6. No I don't think so. Will all those players be there next year. No. Will the manager? Probably not. They then have to hope beyond all hope that their next roll of the dice turns up 6's again, because what's happening now is as good as it gets. Not even finishing top 6 is as good as it gets. No wonder people are apathetic.
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Great post django, never has following one's team seemed so pointless or indeed, football in general. I was away all of last week working and found myself not knowing one single international score, not even England's. I just don't care anymore. The day is not long off when I fear I won't know who Villa are playing on Saturday. It's a short hop from there to not knowing the score. And I'll have become a kinda reverse Chelsea fan. Instead of being completely ignorant about my very successful team, I'll be completely ignorant about my very shit one
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the score thing is actually quite easy. we don't tend to score and the opposition do - either three or four and on a good day only two. Maybe Randy was in town to invite Dave Moyes to a secret meeting in a restaurant with an underground car park?
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Who is this Cole that people speak of?
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Does Lerner look at Koeman and think, fuck me, now that's how to manage.
Would he even know who Koeman is ?
Koeman was someone without Premier League experience before he came to Southampton so obviously he would have been completely unsuitable.
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Yeah good post Django. Unless football is made a more level playing field then what can a club such as ours actually do? Until that happens, then we are hoping for Man City type takeover.....
Who are competing the for title? Chelsea and City, how exciting.
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Yeah good post Django. Unless football is made a more level playing field then what can a club such as ours actually do? Until that happens, then we are hoping for Man City type takeover.....
Who are competing the for title? Chelsea and City, how exciting.
And yet thickies like Michael Owen, Micky Quinn, Robbie Savage and Steve Claridge can make a living every week spending hours debating it through endless hours of more and more media coverage. Cocks like Savage actually think they've discovered something we didn't all know when they tell us the classless chavs will win the league. And they never ever actually debate the real issues, which is perhaps just as well . To hear Alan Brazil on Talkshite in the summer trying to debate the negative impacts of the World Cup for most Brazilian people was to witness some of the most embarrassing radio going.
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I would keep Gabby in for QPR and bring Grealish and Sanchez in for N'Zogbia and Richardson. Play a narrow diamond, as neither N'Zogbia or Gabby offered much wide anyway, with the delivery coming from Hutton. I think Westwood and his range of passing further up the pitch will be useful, especially with Gabby central and Grealish at the tip.
Movement, movement, movement. A bit of that up front yesterday and that good passing would have lead to more chances. It was good to see us not just lumping it to Benteke and trying to work it up to the Everton box. I think somebody like Grealish just offers a bit more nous and guile and a focal point for the midfield behind him and is likely more capable of linking the midfield to the forwards. Benteke too has to drop deep behind at times; Lukaku did that well yesterday.
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Ellis and Lerner. It's like finally getting rid of Thatcher and finding out after a few years what Tony Blair was really like. All that hope dashed. I think that's one of the reasons for the apathy. The feeling that we're rotten from the top but whatever happens I can't see someone else coming in and fixing it.
We've got massive problems in the way we're run, but footballs so rotten beyond us that I don't have a massive amount of hope whatever happens to us. Even if s new owner came in and threw his money around like early days Lerner, I don't think we'd have any dreams of finishing in the top 4. So what's the point?
Looking at Southampton now, wow they must be having a great time, good manager, stumbled on a great team. Will they finish top 4? No. Top 6. No I don't think so. Will all those players be there next year. No. Will the manager? Probably not. They then have to hope beyond all hope that their next roll of the dice turns up 6's again, because what's happening now is as good as it gets. Not even finishing top 6 is as good as it gets. No wonder people are apathetic.
Spot on. The game is so skewed in favour of those with the deepest pockets that even wealthy clubs like Liverpool struggle to keep up. I think the only way for us to go is for a sort of steady as she goes type improvement, with the aim of flirting with the top 6 every now and then. Unfortunately it isn't very exciting and when that is what we were doing we wanted more but couldn't afford it.
As for yesterday we played some reasonable football in the first half without ever looking like scoring but then Guzan's uncharacteristic cock up did for us. We seem, on paper, to have a reasonable squad but are clearly too reliant on one or two key players. If others do not step up soon it is going to be another depressing season spent looking down instead of up.
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Even with the current state of football in this country and our club, the manager should be making progress after the passed few years. It doesn't look like it and another gamble with the bottom 3 beckons.
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As you say Chris even some of those top teams that are out of our reach, find themselves unable to compete. I watched Spurs yesterday, a team that has cost a fortune, lots of good players, absolutely nowhere near winning anything. Arsenal will finish higher, a couple of World Cup winners from the summer, spent a fortune, no chance of winning the league.
The longer this goes on the worse it gets. I work with kids quite a bit, they all support the top 4 sides. Most of them don't know the results of the last game, let alone who they are playing next. This is the end result of the Premier Leagues endless quest for 'new markets'. More exposure to more people, who care less and less. The 50,000 capacity stadiums are only able to be filled if people care enough to go every week, and when they die out other people are ready to replace them. It won't effect the top teams, it might have less impact at the teams who have always expected to just hang on in there, but the middle ranking teams, Newcastle, Spurs, Everton etc and probably Arsenal will start to get fed up of this if there's no sign of it changing.
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
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Hopefully with the fans starting to speak up it may change. Money talks though.
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I think if N'Zogbia hadn't given the ball away two minutes into the second half, it might have been a lot different.
By the end of the game I was as depressed as the next man (DC5) and the second half really was dismal, with no creativity and not much desire either. But I thought we were still in with a chance before the 2nd goal and we'd had some good possession in the middle of the first half. The timing (3 minutes into the half) and the nature of the goal (bad and uncharacteristic mistake by Guzan) seemed to finish us off and we never competed after that. I'm not saying that we deserved to win or that we were the better side, but things might, just might have been different if we hadn't conceded at that moment and in that way.
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
Absolutely. We should be making a good fist of it at least. We did so under O Neill. We didn't necessarily have to spend as unrealistically as we did. So much cash burned on the likes of Harewood, Heskey etc was needless, but our better signings like Milner, Young etc made us a good side, and shouldn't have been beyond the budget of a club our size. We could have spent 20-30 mill a window without wasting money on needless over priced seniors, as opposed to spending between 30-40 under O Neill. Cart blanche.
Everton have also pushed some of the big boys close over the years. They've had a 4th place finish and a few 5th placed. Last season they had their highest points haul in the Premiership and pushed it very close for a top 4 place. That's without having anything like the budget of the big four, but by having a consistent and sensible strategy for running their club.
We're a big club, with a big ground. We have no decent direct rival in our area. Spending 20-30 million each summer should be out of our budget. We're not as good as we were under O Neill. We've lost a lot of good players, but even since then we've still maintained a core of 3-4 very good players which give us an advantage over the bottom feeders, or clubs that come up from the Championship.
There's no way our squad has been shit enough that we were so close to going down for three seasons running (four if you count Houlliers season).
It's not good enough and it rests on Lerner, and also Lambert who's not doing nearly well enough with what's at his disposal.
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Agree with all that Supertom, we should be doing better than we are and should be demanding more than we do, but their are plenty of reasons for the apathy that allows it to happen. The reasons why people who in previous eras would have made banners have stopped going are partly down to the way we're run and partly the way the game is run.
Being bad at cards is bad enough, being a bad player playing in a crooked casino is pointless.
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The uneveness of the playing field with the top clubs shouldn't even be discussed here. The fact is that we were easily rolled over by a team that we should be able to compete with. My fear for next week is that it's the game that saves Harry Redknapp's job.
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Agree with all that Supertom, we should be doing better than we are and should be demanding more than we do, but their are plenty of reasons for the apathy that allows it to happen. The reasons why people who in previous eras would have made banners have stopped going are partly down to the way we're run and partly the way the game is run.
Being bad at cards is bad enough, being a bad player playing in a crooked casino is pointless.
We've certainly been beaten down in the last three years. I dunno it almost feels like the passion and energy that was given in letting Randy know how displeased we'd become with McLeish isn't quite there any more. In addition there's just a defeated sense that Randy is hardly ever a round to here the fans voicing their opinions anymore. That McLeish season seemed to eat away all of Randy's interest.
I hope next time Randy appears at Villa park and if we're still bobbins, that the fans make it as clear as day we don't want this anymore.
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The uneveness of the playing field with the top clubs shouldn't even be discussed here. The fact is that we were easily rolled over by a team that we should be able to compete with. My fear for next week is that it's the game that saves Harry Redknapp's job.
Agreed. The fans aren't stupid, we know we can't compete in the top 4 but that's not we're complaining about. It's the fact that we can't even compete for the top 6, or the top 8, or even the top bloody half. The decline of the club over the last 5 years is an absolute disgrace. Our expectations have been lowered so much that we're now just resigned to being content with staying in the Premier League. This is not acceptable for Aston Villa.
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I think it was starting to build last season, if anything the fact that we know he wants to sell makes any protest even more pointless. He's already go t the message.
As it happens, I think we'll be alright this season, stay up I mean.
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The fact that we sell out more or less every away game and our home attendances are what they are speaks volumes.
It's mainly the hardcore diehards who go away though so can't really draw a comparison. I looked at the Ci£y gate - 32k of which 3k plus was Ci£y ! So only 29k villa max. That's a worry.
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The uneveness of the playing field with the top clubs shouldn't even be discussed here. The fact is that we were easily rolled over by a team that we should be able to compete with. My fear for next week is that it's the game that saves Harry Redknapp's job.
Yes that's it for me. We can discuss money or the lack of it till cows come home but the sad fact is that we have have lost 4 games without causing any concern to the opposition whatsoever. We turn up play exactly like teams know we will play, work us out quite easily and after that it's just a matter of time before they score. Once they score it's up to them how many. A really pathetic state of affairs.
Been watching QPR today and they are playing well so not sure if we will get anything there next week.
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The uneveness of the playing field with the top clubs shouldn't even be discussed here. The fact is that we were easily rolled over by a team that we should be able to compete with. My fear for next week is that it's the game that saves Harry Redknapp's job.
Agreed. The fans aren't stupid, we know we can't compete in the top 4 but that's not we're complaining about. It's the fact that we can't even compete for the top 6, or the top 8, or even the top bloody half. The decline of the club over the last 5 years is an absolute disgrace. Our expectations have been lowered so much that we're now just resigned to being content with staying in the Premier League. This is not acceptable for Aston Villa.
True, there is no reason why yesterday should have been so one sided, but I'm not surprised when on entering the pitch Everton have a plan, not just for the game, but what they want to achieve. We don't.
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What struck me watching the brief highlights on MOTD was the amount of time and space we gave the Everton players. See the one Baines corner he plays it short (20 yard pass) to a team mate in space who leisurely rolls it back to Baines to swing it in. All this without a villa player within 5 yards.
These are the basics you teach young kids.
Truly woeful.
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Just can't see where the goals are coming from.
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Just can't see where the goals are coming from.
I can....the opposition
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As has been mentioned, the Scottish Cafu for Villa's best player. However, I doubt that he's got any voice left now after all the shouting he had to do at Zog to get him to make even a token effort at tracking back with Baines.
As soon as I saw the team sheet I knew we'd be playing with ten men. With such a fine line in the PL between success and failure you really need eleven men fighting every ball, 100% effort. N'Zogbia neither delivers in attack or defensively. At least Andi will track back. The sooner we get rid the better but right now he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team.
Right now I'm more interested in what CEO Fox will have to say to Randy in defence of the dropping attendances. Fox will look at the numbers and realise we are in decline and it would be negligent of him not to address the issue with Lerner. It should be a very interesting conversation. I have a feeling Fox won't be here for long.
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Any team with CNZ on the teamsheet is a team playing with 10 men. I fail to see what he brings to the table. When he occasionally does get on the ball he heads down blinds alleys like a headless chicken. He neither defends nor attacks, a liability. I know Weimann gets a lot of stick on here but he works his nuts off and is our only natural striker apart from the Beast.
I'm completely fed up, the initial results, they weren't great performances, is as usual papering over the cracks. I just want the team to have a go, every other manager knows how we will play apart from Brendan Rogers for some reason. Make some changes, spring a surprise just do your job Mr Lambert.
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The good games don't count, the bad ones do.
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The fact that we sell out more or less every away game and our home attendances are what they are speaks volumes.
It's mainly the hardcore diehards who go away though so can't really draw a comparison. I looked at the Ci£y gate - 32k of which 3k plus was Ci£y ! So only 29k villa max. That's a worry.
The attendances have been good in previous seasons even though the teams been bad. I think the fans saw our poor form as temporary and would start to improve soon. Now i think the fans are realising that this is how it's going to be for some time, especially now Lambert's signed on for another four years.
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There has been enough investment in this team over the Lambert era to ensure that we should not be continuing to witness these horrible performances.
Lerner has been pretty useless and his incompetence is really demonstrated by giving this idiot Lambert a 4 year contract.
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I wonder what Lerner was thinking leaving Goodison yesterday after watching that shower of shite.
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I wonder what Lerner was thinking leaving Goodison yesterday after watching that shower of shite.
Where can I get a pint of Guinness?
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I wonder what Lerner was thinking leaving Goodison yesterday after watching that shower of shite.
If he was like me he would have looked at Everton's manager and thought, if only.
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Interesting that Lerner has started attending again , wasn't he at the Ci£y game too ? I wonder why ?
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I wonder what Lerner was thinking leaving Goodison yesterday after watching that shower of shite.
If he was like me he would have looked at Everton's manager and thought, if only.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing though
I can't remember the 'next manager poll' whether it was after MON or Houllier but there were 3 votes for the then Wigan manager, I was one of them so there's two more on here somewhere
Evidently his teams only start playing in March and he wasn't going to be up to the Villa job if I remember correctly
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Equally I remember the clamour for Owen Coyle only a few years ago.
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Got to agree about the comments on N'Zogbia. He's so ineffective, he's not worth a starting place at all.
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Got to agree about the comments on N'Zogbia. He's so ineffective, he's not worth a starting place at all.
Unfortunately it just looks more and more like he's a busted flush. He's always been inconsistent but at his best could turn a game. I'm not sure he's got it in him any more, not least any of the desire to.
The sooner we can get him and Bent off the wages, the better.
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Equally I remember the clamour for Owen Coyle only a few years ago.
Have to admit I was one who quite liked Coyle
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Got to agree about the comments on N'Zogbia. He's so ineffective, he's not worth a starting place at all.
Unfortunately it just looks more and more like he's a busted flush. He's always been inconsistent but at his best could turn a game. I'm not sure he's got it in him any more, not least any of the desire to.
The sooner we can get him and Bent off the wages, the better.
I personally think Bent could still do a job. Maybe not to the extent he did, but he knows where the net is and good strikers don't lose that.
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What we desperately need is a good performance against QPR (even if we lose) to give our fans a bit of hope for the immediate future.
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Got to agree about the comments on N'Zogbia. He's so ineffective, he's not worth a starting place at all.
Unfortunately it just looks more and more like he's a busted flush. He's always been inconsistent but at his best could turn a game. I'm not sure he's got it in him any more, not least any of the desire to.
The sooner we can get him and Bent off the wages, the better.
I personally think Bent could still do a job. Maybe not to the extent he did, but he knows where the net is and good strikers don't lose that.
In theory he could. But the reality is we're creating nothing at the moment and carrying Bent would make us look even worse. I think Lamberts reluctance to play with any width (aside from our fullbacks) is a problem because we're largely nullifying an area where we could be supplying strikers like Benteke and Bent.
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The problem we have with Zog is that he is most likely to find some form by playing which will help his confidence, but isn't playing well enough to warrant starting.
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Equally I remember the clamour for Owen Coyle only a few years ago.
Have to admit I was one who quite liked Coyle
Out of work for almost a year after being sacked by Wigan after less than 6 months!
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
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Equally I remember the clamour for Owen Coyle only a few years ago.
Have to admit I was one who quite liked Coyle
Out of work for almost a year after being sacked by Wigan after less than 6 months!
Let's go and get him then! He must be desperate enough to come to Villa by now.
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I never liked Owen Coyle, his freaky bird face made me instantly dislike him.
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Interesting that Lerner has started attending again , wasn't he at the Ci£y game too ? I wonder why ?
I'm not sure about the City game but he was there for the other 0-3 defeat against Arsenal, the man is cursed.
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
He needs to lose about 2 stone.
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My considered view, as a fan of over 50 years, is that the club is in very deep trouble. All the tell-tale danger signs, familiar to those of us who lived through the mid 60s and mid 80s, are there for everyone to see. Consecutive years of struggle, a malfunctioning and non-productive youth scheme, poor leadership, inept coaching and management, want-away players, chaotic financial arrangements, disinterested, semi-detached owner; we tick more or less every box that says "Guaranteed Relegation".
The decline is probably too endemic and deep-seated to be halted now, although the removal of this almost comically inept Manager might be a start. That said, he's only top of the bill in the large cast of incompetent clowns running the club at all levels. Has anyone noticed the recent results of the Under 21 and Under 18 sides? They're frightening. Under 21s stuffed by the Albion 4-1 and the Under 18s humiliated by Chelsea 12-2. Almost no aspect of our football club is being managed or run competently.
The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.
If he can't/won't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
It wasn't just once in that game was it? Reminds me of Andy Gray during his second spell with us, tried to make the runs like he used to but couldn't get first to the ball.
In hindsight it was another big risk assuming N'Zogbia would reach the level needed after a year out.
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The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.
If he can't/won't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.
I have to say, I agree.
It feels like we've been dodging relegation the last few years as Wigan did, and that - like Wigan - we're ultimately going to fail, and go down.
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Bent needs to get his arse in gear pronto, he looks overweight and disinterested lately hence the reason why we have to play a 20% fit Benteke and the other waste of space Gabby instead.
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
In fairness, he hasn't played a lot of football of late, he probably needs games. I'm not saying he's the answer but I wouldn't totally write him off just yet either.
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Bent needs to get his arse in gear pronto, he looks overweight and disinterested lately hence the reason why we have to play a 20% fit Benteke and the other waste of space Gabby instead.
I fear Bent is beyond redemption.
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My considered view, as a fan of over 50 years, is that the club is in very deep trouble. All the tell-tale danger signs, familiar to those of us who lived through the mid 60s and mid 80s, are there for everyone to see. Consecutive years of struggle, a malfunctioning and non-productive youth scheme, poor leadership, inept coaching and management, want-away players, chaotic financial arrangements, disinterested, semi-detached owner; we tick more or less every box that says "Guaranteed Relegation".
The decline is probably too endemic and deep-seated to be halted now, although the removal of this almost comically inept Manager might be a start. That said, he's only top of the bill in the large cast of incompetent clowns running the club at all levels. Has anyone noticed the recent results of the Under 21 and Under 18 sides? They're frightening. Under 21s stuffed by the Albion 4-1 and the Under 18s humiliated by Chelsea 12-2. Almost no aspect of our football club is being managed or run competently.
The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.
If he can't/won't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.
I have also witnessed the relegation struggles you mention, I am amazed we have avoided the drop so far to be honest. In this era getting new owners guarantees nothing but I agree Lerner just doesn't seem to make the right calls.
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When we signed him I was surprised at Bents lack of pace, I was expecting him to be quick but he hasn't been since coming here, won't argue that he's put a few pounds on mind.
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
In fairness, he hasn't played a lot of football of late, he probably needs games. I'm not saying he's the answer but I wouldn't totally write him off just yet either.
He's played more than Zog and hasn't had a year out injured.
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When we signed him I was surprised at Bents lack of pace, I was expecting him to be quick but he hasn't been since coming here, won't argue that he's put a few pounds on mind.
He had pace over a short burst, just a few paces, but that was made him deadly on through balls as well as his goal hanging.
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Apart from anything else, when you look at Bent and Zogbia, their overall application and determination just don't seem there. Neither looks particularly bothered, or like they'll bust a gut. Conversely, the way Hutton has applied himself has been exemplary.
I can in part understand Bent and Zogbia etc, not having much respect for Lambert given how they've been treated. I know Zog was injured last year but he was probably a cert to be put in the bomb squad were he fit.
However for the sake of professionalism, and your career, much like Hutton has, you have to put some things behind you and keep working your bollocks off. Bent and Zogbia should really be playing for their careers at this stage. Come the end of the season they're going to want to attract a decent wage from somewhere else. As things stand, they won't have too many takers.
Pretty damn sharpish the pair of them need to take a leaf out of Hutton's book, otherwise Lambert needs to re-bomb them if they're offering nowt.
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I reckon Bent is more of a busted flush than Zog is. Bent is never going to get the pace back he has lost which was a big part of his game, those first few yards. Best examplke I can think of is against Orient there was a great ball played through to him and the Bent of a few years ago would have 100% got away from the defender and got a shot away, probably on target, as it was he just about managed to keep possession and had to turn away from goal.
In fairness, he hasn't played a lot of football of late, he probably needs games. I'm not saying he's the answer but I wouldn't totally write him off just yet either.
He's played more than Zog and hasn't had a year out injured.
That's a fair point.
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
Probably slightly more going by how we were dishing out in 2011. Bent is a free agent soon though, as for N'Zog he's here for another couple years yet because who's going to buy him and pay his wages?
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
Probably slightly more going by how we were dishing out in 2011. Bent is a free agent soon though, as for N'Zog he's here for another couple years yet because who's going to buy him and pay his wages?
Bents probably on 60-80k. He came here because we offered him a massive wage. Zogbia's reasoning was similar too. I'd guess he's at least on 50k, maybe more.
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We have scored 4 goals in our last 11 competitive games and conceded 20. That's the massive concern for me.
That must be another record of sorts for lambert.
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We have scored 4 goals in our last 11 competitive games and conceded 20. That's the massive concern for me.
That must be another record of sorts for lambert.
Probably. The only thing Lambert is good at is breaking unwanted records.
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
Probably slightly more going by how we were dishing out in 2011. Bent is a free agent soon though, as for N'Zog he's here for another couple years yet because who's going to buy him and pay his wages?
Zog is with us until summer 2016. So one more season after this one. At just 28 you'd hope he'd start playing soon even if it is just to get another contract somewhere else.
Bent is in his last season with us and is on a reported 65K a week.
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the thing with N'Zogbia is that when the system isn't set up for him to thrive he really struggles and looks very poor. There needs to be a lot of things going right around for him to perform. I'm not entirely sure all of what we are seeing from him is him or as a consequence of the system we are playing that doesn't encourages players keeping the ball, moving into space and thus allowing the likes of N'Zogbia the time and room to attack defenders. He's as much a part of the problem as he is a victim of it.
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
Probably slightly more going by how we were dishing out in 2011. Bent is a free agent soon though, as for N'Zog he's here for another couple years yet because who's going to buy him and pay his wages?
Zog is with us until summer 2016. So one more season after this one. At just 28 you'd hope he'd start playing soon even if it is just to get another contract somewhere else.
Bent is in his last season with us and is on a reported 65K a week.
So next year and half the year after. I should of put it in seasons though like you did.
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I'm struggling to think of a single game when after it finished I thought to myself, yeah zoggy did alright in that one
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Ellis and Lerner. It's like finally getting rid of Thatcher and finding out after a few years what Tony Blair was really like. All that hope dashed. I think that's one of the reasons for the apathy. The feeling that we're rotten from the top but whatever happens I can't see someone else coming in and fixing it.
We've got massive problems in the way we're run, but footballs so rotten beyond us that I don't have a massive amount of hope whatever happens to us. Even if s new owner came in and threw his money around like early days Lerner, I don't think we'd have any dreams of finishing in the top 4. So what's the point?
Looking at Southampton now, wow they must be having a great time, good manager, stumbled on a great team. Will they finish top 4? No. Top 6. No I don't think so. Will all those players be there next year. No. Will the manager? Probably not. They then have to hope beyond all hope that their next roll of the dice turns up 6's again, because what's happening now is as good as it gets. Not even finishing top 6 is as good as it gets. No wonder people are apathetic.
I am not one of life's optimists and so am usually prepared for fortune's setbacks, but the Thatcher/Blair analogy is enough to finish me off.
I still hope the analogy is false.
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I'm struggling to think of a single game when after it finished I thought to myself, yeah zoggy did alright in that one
West ham home game 2 seasons ago ?
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There seems to be so much apathy towards football, so. Many people saying they can take or leave it, even talking about giving up completely
I don't believe a word of it,
look at every time we get an international break, instead of enjoying the weekend, it's moaning and caterwauling because we can't get our weeky fix of the premiership, you know the same premiership we all hate
No matter how bad it gets, we are addicts and can do nothing about it,
we think we can but can't, so we just talk about it in the vain belief that if we wanted to we could give football up whenever we choose,
but it's just bullshit, we our fooling ourselves, addicts for life
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11 shots on target this season and 4 of them in one match. Pretty shocking by any standard. I wish somebody would press Lambert on this in a press conference.
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11 shots on target this season and 4 of them in one match. Pretty shocking by any standard. I wish somebody would press Lambert on this in a press conference.
It's not gone unnoticed by the hacks so it will happen soon if things don't improve.
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11 shots on target this season and 4 of them in one match. Pretty shocking by any standard. I wish somebody would press Lambert on this in a press conference.
It's not gone unnoticed by the hacks so it will happen soon if things don't improve.
Sub headline in Guardian
''Aston Villa poor in every area of pitch''
Pretty much every match report I have seen has been critical of our performance and how easy Everton walked to a victory.
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The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.
If he can't/wkon't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.
I have to say, I agree.
It feels like we've been dodging relegation the last few years as Wigan did, and that - like Wigan - we're ultimately going to fail, and go down.
Absolutely spot on as I said on the live match thread yesterday the club has the same feel as when I first started going in the Vic Crowe era. An absolute car crash that everyone who cares about the club can see but no one who runs it seems capable of doing anything about.
Perhaps we need the shock of relegation for anything to change .
In my opiniin the club needs overhauling from top to bottom but to do that we need an owner with vision and a manager with ability, neither of which we possess at the moment,
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Bent and N'Zogbia. £100k a week going on shit all.
However they are only one goal away from getting new four year deals😰
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Both suffer from the same problem, Bent never had pace Nzog has lost his, get rid as soon as possible.
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to whom? the only way is to pay them off
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There seems to be so much apathy towards football, so. Many people saying they can take or leave it, even talking about giving up completely
I don't believe a word of it,
look at every time we get an international break, instead of enjoying the weekend, it's moaning and caterwauling because we can't get our weeky fix of the premiership, you know the same premiership we all hate
No matter how bad it gets, we are addicts and can do nothing about it,
we think we can but can't, so we just talk about it in the vain belief that if we wanted to we could give football up whenever we choose,
but it's just bullshit, we our fooling ourselves, addicts for life
I disagree John, I don't think people totally give up, they'll still support the Villa but they just won't go, they won't actively support the club. They'll take more of a passing interest as opposed to an obsessive one.
This is surprisingly easy to do in this day in age and the Club is seems to be doing it's level best to encourage this with the dumb decisions over the last 4 years.
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There seems to be so much apathy towards football, so. Many people saying they can take or leave it, even talking about giving up completely
I don't believe a word of it,
look at every time we get an international break, instead of enjoying the weekend, it's moaning and caterwauling because we can't get our weeky fix of the premiership, you know the same premiership we all hate
No matter how bad it gets, we are addicts and can do nothing about it,
we think we can but can't, so we just talk about it in the vain belief that if we wanted to we could give football up whenever we choose,
but it's just bullshit, we our fooling ourselves, addicts for life
I disagree John, I don't think people totally give up, they'll still support the Villa but they just won't go, they won't actively support the club. They'll take more of a passing interest as opposed to an obsessive one.
This is surprisingly easy to do in this day in age and the Club is seems to be doing it's level best to encourage this with the dumb decisions over the last 4 years.
I agree with both of you. I am a good example of the person who moans about modern football and, like the relapsed smoker, I am always a little bit disgusted at myself when I give in to temptation. But although football still holds that appeal at the moment, it does genuinely seem like the attitude of a lot of supporters is changing. How can it not when we repeatedly hear those in the media saying that United have to spend in January to improve, after spending gigantic amounts in the summer - what message does that send out and what chance does it give to the majority of clubs?
All that crap about "best league in the world because anyone can beat anyone else on any given day" - yeah, but only two or three clubs can win the whole thing and only four or five can compete for CL spots, the be-all and end-all. And if someone comes close to challenging, they get blown out of the water financially. And that doesn't look like changing.
On Saturday, I didn't care what happened in any game except ours. And when we did lose, the anger and frustration just wasn't there any more. A defeat doesn't ruin my mood for several hours now, like it would have for almost the last 30 years. This doesn't make me feel great, I want that passion back, but I don't blame its disappearance on us being a bit crap, I blame it mainly on the utter lack of competitiveness on and off the field in the Premier League.
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.
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There seems to be so much apathy towards football, so. Many people saying they can take or leave it, even talking about giving up completely
I don't believe a word of it,
look at every time we get an international break, instead of enjoying the weekend, it's moaning and caterwauling because we can't get our weeky fix of the premiership, you know the same premiership we all hate
No matter how bad it gets, we are addicts and can do nothing about it,
we think we can but can't, so we just talk about it in the vain belief that if we wanted to we could give football up whenever we choose,
but it's just bullshit, we our fooling ourselves, addicts for life
No offence John but speak for yourself, if football wants to treat me like a "customer" rather than a fan (ie, milking us for every penny) then as a customer, i reserve the right to take my custom elswhere, The Premiership has wrecked a lot of things, cups are worthless, National side - who cares about that as long as we can finish one place higher up the league. me, i still love the club, but not English football anymore, i feel taken for granted, my loyalty is expected to be unflinching, well mr premiership footballer, try showing some loyalty in return - fat chance. i`ve gone from being a season ticket holder too not even bothering anymore, my passion may return, just dont take me for a fool blinded by loyalty, are we expected to be entertained by the fare we have seen over the last few years???. unnacceptable. Goodbye.
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"Where were you when you were shit?".
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There seems to be so much apathy towards football, so. Many people saying they can take or leave it, even talking about giving up completely
I don't believe a word of it,
look at every time we get an international break, instead of enjoying the weekend, it's moaning and caterwauling because we can't get our weeky fix of the premiership, you know the same premiership we all hate
No matter how bad it gets, we are addicts and can do nothing about it,
we think we can but can't, so we just talk about it in the vain belief that if we wanted to we could give football up whenever we choose,
but it's just bullshit, we our fooling ourselves, addicts for life
No offence John but speak for yourself, if football wants to treat me like a "customer" rather than a fan (ie, milking us for every penny) then as a customer, i reserve the right to take my custom elswhere, The Premiership has wrecked a lot of things, cups are worthless, National side - who cares about that as long as we can finish one place higher up the league. me, i still love the club, but not English football anymore, i feel taken for granted, my loyalty is expected to be unflinching, well mr premiership footballer, try showing some loyalty in return - fat chance. i`ve gone from being a season ticket holder too not even bothering anymore, my passion may return, just dont take me for a fool blinded by loyalty, are we expected to be entertained by the fare we have seen over the last few years???. unnacceptable. Goodbye.
Well said. Sums up exactly how I feel at the moment. I don't even feel upset, or angry when I hear goals go against us, and am beginging to feel the same when we get them back. I love Aston Villa and have loads of books full of history and amazing images and I can sit and read them with excitement. But for whatever reason, I just can't get excited about matches. I love going to VP but prefer to go to VMF where I can stand on the balcony and look across the empty ground and pitch and think about all the things that have happened there most of which was before I was born.
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Two things. i wonder how 'luuvie'ish we're becoming over the non-going because we're not performing in the top glight as we would like? I bet there are many fans of many clubs who would just see us as Premier league fannies. We're not struggling in league one or two but not doing splendidly in the Premier League.
Also, I've said for years but withdrawing our monetary support means feck-all to the club because we are there for atmosphere alone. Yes, we'll bring a few quid in but losing us or losing TV money is a simple one. We were chucked overboard many years ago and little bits of bait in terms of a nice stadium, a nice player or two, and a coach trip here and there, nice words or a pub is just to keep us interested financially. There's a core that will always go so why do the club need to listen?
They will if all they hear is abuse from the stands as that affects their 'product' and they don't want that. Especially one that is, or isn't, trying to be sold.
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Two things. i wonder how 'luuvie'ish we're becoming over the non-going because we're not performing in the top glight as we would like? I bet there are many fans of many clubs who would just see us as Premier league fannies. We're not struggling in league one or two but not doing splendidly in the Premier League.
Very much this Peter.
After a defeat or a run of defeats, there is always a queue of people who want to come onto a post-match thread and instead of talking about football, bore us with tales of all the tedious things they get up to instead of bothering to watch the Villa. “Look at me, I don’t go and it’s because I can’t be bothered to go!” – usually accompanied by some self aggrandising spiel about how many centuries of support they’ve but in prior to listening to Polish folk music at 3pm on a Saturday.
You didn't get this a few years ago when we were 6th and in semi-finals, and last time I checked, the game was just as rigged and as expensive then as it is now.
Everybody knows what the sport is and has become and nobody is happy that we cannot compete in it anymore. Nobody is happy when we lose either, but having discussion specifically set to discuss football at its fundamental level hi-jacked is boring.
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.
It's not much of a myth when for the previous 5 years they've made a profit each year on transfers for a total of almost exactly what they spent this summer.
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Fair enough Ads this is probably the wrong thread for some of my posts. Take Peters point about moaning Premier League fannies too.
It does seem a bit rich moaning about the inequalities in the League as a Villa fan rather than say a supporter of Huddersfield or Shrewsbury. But I do think there's a stark difference, clubs that are established in the Premier league, better than average crowds and facilities (a rich owner, despite his other issues) would previously have been competitive and now they are not.
Clubs who have long been adrift in the lower leagues have always known they couldn't compete, but would hope that by putting the crowds, facilities and a decent team together could get to a stage where they could. Maybe because the hopes of promotion to the premier league are so remote for so many clubs they don't consider the fates of teams in the premier league as worthy of their concern. Fair enough. But there are record numbers of clubs going into administration, of clubs being crippled financially and their existence put in doubt, it's another aspect of the same problem.
It's also not a big worry for fans of the top 5 clubs, so little attention is paid to anyone else I'd be surprised if they give other teams a second thought, but left unaddressed this decline in interest/competitiveness will eventually bite them in the arse too.
Anyway, back to the on pitch side of things...
I think we will have enough to stay up more comfortably this season... Against Everton, almost every cross from Cissokho was a shocker, whereas that's been a strength so far...I thought Richardson had a day where nothing came off and Nzogbia I feel is someone who will contribute I some games but is inconsistent. All 3 having off days, gabby too and Benteke being rusty meant we didn't take advantage of the better spells we had. Obviously the biggest problem is our default sitting back.
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I'd like us to chuck in Grealish for the next three games ahead of Zogbia. The lad is always so calm on the ball. Seeing Barkley flourishing yesterday at only 20 years of age must have been an absolute delight for Everton. There was also a maturity to his performance which has come from being put in the side at 18.
It seems we're frankly wasting time playing Zogbia and Bent, neither of whom seem to have much hunger (I'm not talking pie hunger, which they have in abundance) or desire left.
Get Grealish in. Rotate him a little with Joe Cole, who at least in the ten minutes looked like he wanted to calm things down a bit on the ball.
We've got four difficult games coming up. QPR is a 6 pointer. Neither wants to lose it, both feel it's must win. Then Spurs is normally a side we succumb to easily of late. West Ham and Southampton will be be difficult to.
But I think it's ideal testing time for Grealish. These shouldn't be 10 men behind the ball matches like City, Chelsea and Arsenal. They really shouldn't. We should be looking to try and attack in the games, and having someone with a bit of nous in his game and composure, like Grealish might be beneficial. If it's not going right for the lad in a match, bring on Joe Cole, who can't play 90 minutes any more and is an impact player now.
Will Grealish be as good as Barkley? Who knows but it's time we put him in, gave him a run and played a player who lives and breathes Villa. Someone who'll play with enthusiasm and more importantly, someone who the fans can get behind. Local boy Gabby has coasted for too long and has lost a lot of his fans. We need a new local lad who can brighten up shit like we've been sitting through. Too much pressure? Nonsense. If he can't take the pressure he's got no business being a Premiership footballer. But I think he can cope. In fact in his brief cameos this season he's often looked the most composed player in our side, whilst others run around like headless chickens.
It's Grealish time baby!
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I agree and I have said elsewhere about Grealish; tip of the diamond is where I think he should be playing. If you have him out wide, then he isn't going to see enough of the ball to influence the game as we'd like.
He is different from a lot of our midfielders, as is Sanchez. I would start them both against QPR at the top and base of the diamond respectively. Having Westwood and his range of passing 10-15 yards higher up the pitch will be a benefit too.
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After that performance Gabby and Nzogbia should be dropped.
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They were both poor, but if you drop both, then you lose a lot of pace.
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I'm with starting with jack
Sánchez not so sure . but McGrath , we need some creativity
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Can Grealish be better than Barkley? Probably not. To be fair, from what I see of Barkley he looks better than any of our players in the past 20 years.
Can Grealish be better than we have? Worth trying him to find out. Not too much of a gamble if we're honest.
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They were both poor, but if you drop both, then you lose a lot of pace.
Not sure Nzog has any pace any more, he looks like a busted flush.
I did not see one situation on Saturday where Gabby used his pace. Unless you play him as a centre forward and tell him to run the channels then I am at a loss to see how he contributes.
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Can Grealish be better than we have? Worth trying him to find out. Not too much of a gamble if we're honest.
I'm a bit worried that, if it goes tits up next week at QPR and the fans turn on the team/manager/owner/ unbalanced, bearded lunatic coach...) that it will do Grealish's confidence no good. Very negative of me, I know.
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I agree and I have said elsewhere about Grealish; tip of the diamond is where I think he should be playing. If you have him out wide, then he isn't going to see enough of the ball to influence the game as we'd like.
He is different from a lot of our midfielders, as is Sanchez. I would start them both against QPR at the top and base of the diamond respectively. Having Westwood and his range of passing 10-15 yards higher up the pitch will be a benefit too.
I'd go along with this too. Lambert is never going to play with width from wide men. I think putting two up top and playing the diamond is the way to go. More and more clubs also seem to be adopting that now. Two up top is coming back into fashioned somewhat. It also will provide more support for Benteke. The Beast also likes to drop off, or pull wide, so it wouldn't, by any means by a rigid 2 up top.
I'd play Weimann alongside Benteke as they've linked effectively on occasions in previous seasons and Andi's workrate up through the middle could be put to good use. He's also much better through the middle than being played wide. He'd played hopelessly for a run of games playing as a defensive wide-man, having started the season brightly playing a little more centrally.
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They were both poor, but if you drop both, then you lose a lot of pace.
Not sure Nzog has any pace any more, he looks like a busted flush.
I did not see one situation on Saturday where Gabby used his pace. Unless you play him as a centre forward and tell him to run the channels then I am at a loss to see how he contributes.
If it were to encourage us to be more thoughtful with the ball, then I'd be all for taking Gabby and Zogbia out. Everton aren't a side loaded with pace. They looked quicker than us, but largely down to speed of thought and crisp passing.
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What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career
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What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career
Knowing our luck he'll score for them.
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What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career
It's possibly our most likely avenue. Our lack of chances and goals is getting to a stage that we need a gift, or something scrappy, or one off someone's arse. We don't look like scoring at the moment. And even during our good run, we didn't look like getting more than 1-2.
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What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career
It's possibly our most likely avenue. Our lack of chances and goals is getting to a stage that we need a gift, or something scrappy, or one off someone's arse. We don't look like scoring at the moment. And even during our good run, we didn't look like getting more than 1-2.
I hope Mr Lambert doesn't read this thread or the game plan will be to pump lots of high balls towards Dunne.
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Can Grealish be better than we have? Worth trying him to find out. Not too much of a gamble if we're honest.
I'm a bit worried that, if it goes tits up next week at QPR and the fans turn on the team/manager/owner/ unbalanced, bearded lunatic coach...) that it will do Grealish's confidence no good. Very negative of me, I know.
Oh yeah sure we could permanently ruin the career of one of the brightest prospects we've had in years and send us on a doomed to relegation spiral, but apart from that...nothing to lose.
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What are the chances of Richard Dunne scoring the winner for us next week? It'll be something like the 11th own goal of his career
There was a nice little statistic doing the rounds a year or so ago.
Q Which PL player still playing has scored most goals against Liverpool?
A Jamie Carragher
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.
It's not much of a myth when for the previous 5 years they've made a profit each year on transfers for a total of almost exactly what they spent this summer.
No, they're gambling with debt.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/03/everton-wage-bill-turnover-accounts
http://statsbomb.com/2013/09/the-curious-cost-of-the-everton-loans/
At the end of last season wages to turnover proportion was 73%. Now you could argue that Everton are being very savvy and managing their debt well. But signing Barry and Eto'o is pushing it and for what? Will Lukako shoot them into the top 4? They aren't going to get CL football but stay where they are. they aren't particularly good either just a decent team. They could easily finish 8th or 9th as 5th and then what? How sustainable will that 73% be. To be fair, their debt is only, 'only', around 45m which with the money flowing into the club is serviceable. But, they're not making a play for anything and that to me is not a well run club as they need to rely on high transfer fees to keep the debt where it is. Who would they get that for? Lukako? Well he's already cost them a high figure. Baines? How much have they put him to fend off Man U last season? Who else? They're biding time and are reliant on the loan system, debt, and the odd decent transfer fee to stay where they are. Their luck will run out.
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The chaos and shambles runs deep and only a change of ownership can save us. In truth, we really should have been relegated under McLeish three years ago and last season under Lambert. They were the worst two Villa sides I've seen since 1987 and, before that, possibly 1967, certainly in the top flight. In a properly functioning business the people who have presided over this calamity would have been thrown to the wolves and replaced long ago. A mixture of indecision, cluelessness, complacency and arrogance has got us to where we are today and the buck must stop with Randy Lerner, now some five years past his sell by date.
If he can't/wkon't sell then we'll be a Championship club within two years.
I have to say, I agree.
It feels like we've been dodging relegation the last few years as Wigan did, and that - like Wigan - we're ultimately going to fail, and go down.
Absolutely spot on as I said on the live match thread yesterday the club has the same feel as when I first started going in the Vic Crowe era. An absolute car crash that everyone who cares about the club can see but no one who runs it seems capable of doing anything about.
Perhaps we need the shock of relegation for anything to change .
In my opiniin the club needs overhauling from top to bottom but to do that we need an owner with vision and a manager with ability, neither of which we possess at the moment,
I think Vic Crowe did a good job as manager.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Crowe.
Its fair to say Villa were rubbish before he turned up ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._managers
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Can't really compare Grealish to Barkley.
The former is a rather slight, inexperienced, young lad (same build as G Best?) with great potential; the latter, albeit only 20, a proven Prem midfielder who plays for his country and is a big, dynamic athlete with considerable physical presence - not many other players will hustle him off the ball. Jack is still very lightweight physically and will benefit from more games against defenders who will always try to knock him off the ball as he only looks like a stick!
I'd start him against QPR. We need something...anything!
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The clubs that really suffer in the premier league are those like us who have traditions of winning stuff from time to time but now find themselves priced out of competing or playing in the champions league.
You have the top four or five, then the teams just glad to be here - Hull, Swansea, Burnley, there are lots of these, then the likes of us, who in the past have been competitive but now find things like winning the league unthinkable.
Dare I mention the Everton example again. It is true what you say, but it is possible to at least be competitive if you are well run club with a decent manager. There are absolutely no excuses for us to be happy with 4th from bottom every year. I think people would settle these days with what Chris is referring to above if it could be seen we were having a right good go at teams in the process, something we almost never do anymore.
This myth about just being well-run should be put to bed. they have also been spending money.
It's not much of a myth when for the previous 5 years they've made a profit each year on transfers for a total of almost exactly what they spent this summer.
No, they're gambling with debt.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/03/everton-wage-bill-turnover-accounts
http://statsbomb.com/2013/09/the-curious-cost-of-the-everton-loans/
At the end of last season wages to turnover proportion was 73%. Now you could argue that Everton are being very savvy and managing their debt well. But signing Barry and Eto'o is pushing it and for what? Will Lukako shoot them into the top 4? They aren't going to get CL football but stay where they are. they aren't particularly good either just a decent team. They could easily finish 8th or 9th as 5th and then what? How sustainable will that 73% be. To be fair, their debt is only, 'only', around 45m which with the money flowing into the club is serviceable. But, they're not making a play for anything and that to me is not a well run club as they need to rely on high transfer fees to keep the debt where it is. Who would they get that for? Lukako? Well he's already cost them a high figure. Baines? How much have they put him to fend off Man U last season? Who else? They're biding time and are reliant on the loan system, debt, and the odd decent transfer fee to stay where they are. Their luck will run out.
I dunno, Everton will always cover their costs and have sellable assets. They then just raise a new crop of sellable prospects and go again. That is, of course if they're staying close to Moyes model. Obviously Martinez has come in and brought in a few high profile players. For Everton they've been quite adventurous in the last couple of years in terms of signings, particularly this summer, bringing Barry, Eto'o and Lukaku in for big money (wages and in Lukaku's case, fee).
It'll be interesting to see if they redress the balance as they have a tendency to do, or possibly descend into an O Neill-esque abyss of over-spending.
I think Baines will get sold in the summer and I suspect if Barkley has a good season they'll be getting silly offers. I think they'll be fine ultimately.
Sometimes you have to walk that tightrope to stay competitive. We tried crossing it on a unicycle and fell off. Now we're dangling in our harness over the croc-pit with no idea how to get back on the rope, or the platform.
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"Where were you when you were shit?".
i am working on the assumption - perhaps incorrectly, that this comment was aimed at me for my previous post, well, as a fifty-something, i HAVE been there when we were shit, 3rd division - check, 2nd division - check, relegations/promotions - seen `em all. battle hardened/time served, yep!, fact is, it`s not our crap form over several seasons that has done for me, it`s the overwhelming feeling of being taken for granted by a sport that is losing touch with previously hard-core fans like me. when clubs sign the most lucrative television deal in the sports history and still insist on putting up ticket prices that are already some of the most expensive in the world - that is just pure greed, but where does this money go, back into the game?? - dont make me laugh, it goes to ever greedier players and agents who are bleeding the game dry and dont care if they do. ask yourself why Germany can charge a fraction of what "The most exiting league in the world" lol does, to watch a game, has some of the best stadia in the world, but can still produce a national side that can win a world cup while our national side is a national disgrace. Make no mistake, i love the club, but i`ve had it with the game in it`s present format, and as long as people pay up unflinchingly, nothing will change.
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The TV deals were still massive between 2006-10, as were the wages, as were the cost of tickets.
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The TV deals were still massive between 2006-10, as were the wages, as were the cost of tickets.
Yes, and the drip-drip effect is leading to an increasing number of fans like me walking away, like i said, treat me like a customer and i`ll begin to act like one, the game takes us for granted at its peril. read Robbie Savages article on the BBCs website for a very enlightening insight into what we are really worth to your average (in his case, very) Premiership Footballer.
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Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?
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Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?
He's probably had the stuffing knocked out of him over the last 5 or so seasons by Lerner's 'couldn't care less" attitude to the club. I know it has done me. I gave up my season ticket after at least 3 decades of putting my money up front but I won't be doing it anymore till either he sells up or wakes up before he relegates us.
I admire your support for the club but perhaps as you get older you get more cynical about things. I saw the through Lerner's "young and hungry" bullshit from day one and knew it was nothing but him lowering our expectations and downgrading the club. I've said this many times but this is the worst era I've ever experienced as a Villa fan and I'm not surprised that so many fans have become so disillusioned with it all.
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Why didn't you walk away between 06-10?
Aah!, i see where your going with this line of question, what you REALLY mean is "why didnt you take this line when the club was doing well"??, fair question, deserves an answer, and the answer is simple, its not the club or results that are dictating my change of heart, its the whole nature of the game in this country, the final straw for me was Englands pathetic showing at the last world cup, dont forget these lot were the "pride of the Premiership" no less, and a product of a flawed system that is just obsessed with its domestic league and everything else can go to hell, English football is now just dominated by Foreign players, most of whom, we`ve never heard of, who are just using the Premier league to get to the promised land of La Liga. it was a source of immense pride to many of us when England fielded 5 Villa players in a game - albeit after substitutions, it still happened. It will not happen again any time soon. I am what marketing analysts (which i have no doubt, both the club and The Premier League employ extensively) call "Churn" - in other words - they dont care if they lose my custom, because another one will just replace me, The game is changing, i kind of liked it the way it was, but what i do know, i`m just a fan.