Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Olneythelonely on June 04, 2014, 05:06:18 PM
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He's having a medical. Senderos that is.
Sigh.
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He's having a medical. Senderos that is.
Sigh.
Is he? Where?
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He's having a medical. Senderos that is.
Sigh.
Is he? Where?
Wherever they usually have their medicals. Today or tomorrow anyhoo. This isn't ITK, it's everywhere.
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I said Senderos first on here. Me ITK :)
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I said Senderos first on here. Me ITK :)
I don't like your ITK's.
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Didn't he score a own goal for the Arse against us.
Pretty low key signing.
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I said Senderos first on here. Me ITK :)
Are you Admin in disguise.
Congrats.
Have these month old soggy custard creams.
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The only positive is that Nathan baker can go to wolves this summer
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I'm not one to slag off a signing before he's been anywhere near the shirt
BUT
Phillippe Senderos, really????????? Is this how far we've now fallen????
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I'm not one to slag off a signing before he's been anywhere near the shirt
BUT
Phillippe Senderos, really????????? Is this how far we've now fallen????
But he's from Valencia which is exotic innit.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He might be a free but he'll be getting paid, and the wage bill is the biggest thing for us. Is it a clever way to allocate wages? Not too sure.
He is also not very good, and tends to spend a lot of his time injured, which concerns me.
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Come on he's better than Baker and Clark. Improvement in my eyes.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He might be a free but he'll be getting paid, and the wage bill is the biggest thing for us. Is it a clever way to allocate wages? Not too sure.
He is also not very good, and tends to spend a lot of his time injured, which concerns me.
he's better than Baker. I'm better than Baker
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Come on he's better than Baker and Clark. Improvement in my eyes.
The problem is, Baker and Clark are so poor that there are a very great number of intermediate points between their level and "good enough".
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He's got to be better than Baker and Clark.
He might not be up to much, but surely having played for Arsenal, Milan and Valencia means he's better than those pair? You cannot consistently con that many people can you?
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Can somebody give a synopsis of him? I have seen him play in the flesh a number of times, but I cannot recall much about him.
He's a big lad and has played for some very big clubs is about as much as I know.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He's got to be better than Baker and Clark.
He might not be up to much, but surely having played for Arsenal, Milan and Valencia means he's better than those pair? You cannot consistently con that many people can you?
If he had never played in England and we had never seen some of the mistakes having played for Milan and Valencia would be very impressive. Unfortunately his time in the PL hasn't been as good so we can only go by that as a reference point. He's a #3 or #4 CB. Again nothing to get hot under the collar over in my opinion.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He's got to be better than Baker and Clark.
He might not be up to much, but surely having played for Arsenal, Milan and Valencia means he's better than those pair? You cannot consistently con that many people can you?
Combined total of 19 starts for Valencia and Milan.
It's not a wrist slasher of a signing, but I don't think he's actually that much better than Clark and Baker to warrant signing. That's the thing.
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Well if all he is a third choice centre half for a Premiership side, then he has improved the squad over the chuckle brothers. Given the unusual circumstances we find ourself in, a few mid-table exprienced players is probably the best we can hope for.
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A 'survive til Christmas' signing. I've no idea what he's like now but was always underwhelmed by him at arsenal. Maybe he's better now.
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Well we can hope that Okore and Vlaar don't suffer from the same level of ridiculous injuries they have thus far (why is it only our best players get injured?) so we only see him in small doses. He's got to have something about him to have played for those clubs, even if he lacked the consistency or ability to maintain it.
I will reserve judgment till I have seen him play, as I am sure the majority will. I cannot help feel that when Vlaar limps off injured in December, him coming on won't have me with my head in my hands as would Baker and Clark.
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Where's this story come from? It'd be a desperate signing if true.
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Well we can hope that Okore and Vlaar don't suffer from the same level of ridiculous injuries they have thus far (why is it only our best players get injured?) so we only see him in small doses. He's got to have something about him to have played for those clubs, even if he lacked the consistency or ability to maintain it.
I will reserve judgment till I have seen him play, as I am sure the majority will. I cannot help feel that when Vlaar limps off injured in December, him coming on won't have me with my head in my hands as would Baker and Clark.
Well, Senderos will fit in with our centre halves too, then, as he's constantly injured as well.
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He'll only get injured if he puts in a few good performances though.
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I wouldn't bank on it.
Oh well, let's see how things move on, but this summer we're going to have to sign better players than we already have - and not just slightly better than the really shit ones, either. We can't avoid it for any longer.
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He'll be third or fourth choice. We're not going to get Franz Beckenbauer for that role.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
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Funny really. It's the kind of signing we could have made two years ago when we were on a blinkered 'young and hungry' crusade and it would have done us a favour. I wonder whether a centre back pairing of Vlaar and Senderos would have been enough to see off Bradford and get a sniff of silverware when we had the chance.
Anyway, if we're looking at signing up Fulhams over the hill rejects surely Hangeland would be the one to go for?
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
Not on this occassion; his wages and trasnfer fee take him well out of the Heskey/Harewood stakes.
People keep mentioning Hangerland, but as I recall, he had become so chronically slow that you couldn't tell if he was still moving.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
Not on this occassion; his wages and trasnfer fee take him well out of the Heskey/Harewood stakes.
I wouldn't be too sure about that - we are in a different wages league these days, but even so, I don't imagine Harewood would have been on an enormous wedge, as we stole him as he was about to sign for Wigan.
Anyway, like I said, let's see how things pan out. if we improve three or four starting positions (at least) then maybe we'll have a chance to improve. I just remain highly sceptical as to whether that'll actually happen.
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If he's coming in to be 3/4th choice I fear for Clark
Especially after Lambert (can't believe i'm still having to type his name) seems to favour Baker the plank
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At least were signing players from Valencia now instead of Chesterfield
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Senderos is cack! If anyone has watched Premier League football over the last 10 years then you must agree he is one of the most clumsiest, clueless and inept centre backs to ever play in this league.
People say he's an improvement on Baker and Clark....I say they're as equal as one another. Being a top centre half in this era involves being intelligent and using your brain. All 3 do not do that and think wiping out the opposition player is what it takes.
I only hope that this is cover and only cover if Vlaar and Okore break down mid season.
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Especially after Lambert (can't believe i'm still having to type his name) seems to favour Baker the plank
Clark is no Franz Beckenbauer, but if we moved him on and kept Baker, it'd be, well, disappointing.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
On this occasion we don't have a billionaire throwing money around, we are skint. Aren't fighting for Europe, we're relegation contenders. He isn't back up to Carew, he's taking the squad place of Nathan Baker.
I'm a moaning bastard, but a cheap centre back, saving what little money we have for 1st team replacements and moving Baker aside seems like a no brainer to me. Wages are the issue, if they aren't too high, it's a good deal.
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On this occasion we don't have a billionaire throwing money around, we are skint. Aren't fighting for Europe, we're relegation contenders. He isn't back up to Carew, he's taking the squad place of Nathan Baker.
... as back up to Vlaar and Okore. Along with Nathan Baker who is still here, and Ciaran Clark.
I don't see the point, to be honest. If we were signing Lescott, who is significantly better than both of them, I see the point in a CB signing, but to sign another meh centre back when we'll have Okore back from missing an entire season, well that strikes me as a bit pointless.
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On this occasion we don't have a billionaire throwing money around, we are skint. Aren't fighting for Europe, we're relegation contenders. He isn't back up to Carew, he's taking the squad place of Nathan Baker.
... as back up to Vlaar and Okore. Along with Nathan Baker who is still here, and Ciaran Clark.
I don't see the point, to be honest. If we were signing Lescott, who is significantly better than both of them, I see the point in a CB signing, but to sign another meh centre back when we'll have Okore back from missing an entire season, well that strikes me as a bit pointless.
But if that's all we can go and get at this point then, as disappointing as it is, so be it. Lescott may not want to go from title winners to a relegation battle. Why would he? I also agree that Hangelaand is slower than a snail now so would be no use. I actually would keep Baker and farm him out for a season because he has been over exposed at such a young age with a midfield that overs little cover.
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There is 0 chance of us signing anyone like Lescott this window. We are in full penny pinching mode now no doubt, so anyone that keeps Clark and Baker away from the first team is good enough for me, they are 2 of the worst centre backs I've had the mispleasure of watching down the Villa.
I would be looking at selling one of those 2 now, preferably Baker.
As a bonus, we get to watch another Villa player at the World Cup now, he does still play for them doesn't he? From what I remember of the qualifiers Switzerland had a good defensive record too.
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If this is true, I'm not hugely down in the dumps by it.
I'd guess that he will be on higher wages than anyone we've brought in since probably Vlaar so even though he's not the greatest defender in the world, it suggests we'll be looking at higher-profile players this summer than I was expecting us to.
Plus, three Villa players at the World Cup rather than two.
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Another cheap as chips signing. Can't see this signing shifting many season tickets.
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Hopefully he's realised that Baker and Clark are not up to the job and need to be sold to teams in the Championship for as much as we can realistically get.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
On this occasion we don't have a billionaire throwing money around, we are skint. Aren't fighting for Europe, we're relegation contenders. He isn't back up to Carew, he's taking the squad place of Nathan Baker.
I'm a moaning bastard, but a cheap centre back, saving what little money we have for 1st team replacements and moving Baker aside seems like a no brainer to me. Wages are the issue, if they aren't too high, it's a good deal.
There-in lies the problem though. Wages will be an issue with Senderos. As shit as he is, he's in his peak years for his position, on a free transfer. He'll be asking for a lot of money I'd have thought. He's not a player who'd walk into our first 11, so I wouldn't imagine that a deal is feasible.
As sad as it sounds. Senderos is actually out of our price range right now.
Lescott won't happen either, but in his case, he at least walks straight into our first 11 if we pull it off. But we won't because 3-4 other clubs will be after him and pay significantly more than we will. Senderos is bobbins but he'll have enough options around, offering him more than we will.
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Just announced as breaking news on SSN.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
The same point is valid as was made back then.
We get better by trying to sign better players than we currently have and trying to make our current first XI the replacements of the new signings. I have no problem signing Senderos as I mention above, but signing back-ups is what caused the issues last time round.
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If this is true, I'm not hugely down in the dumps by it.
I'd guess that he will be on higher wages than anyone we've brought in since probably Vlaar so even though he's not the greatest defender in the world, it suggests we'll be looking at higher-profile players this summer than I was expecting us to.
Plus, three Villa players at the World Cup rather than two.
Yes, hoping he impresses at the WC. It's a bit more PL experience and an upgrade in our current depth. Hopefully no more than a 12 or 18 month deal.
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This signing confirms to me that a takeover's far away. I had hoped that the hiring of Keane was illogical, to the extent that he would only be giving up a cushy lot because of something we don't know. But signing Senderos on a free indicates we're planning for the new season with the sparse resources we have, otherwise the club wouldn't be scraping around like this.
I don't hate the idea of Senderos joining the club, and I sense he may have had better wage offers elsewhere but fancied the PL again, but quite honestly, it's yet another squad player who'll be played far too often.
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Great news. I'm delighted with anything that pushes Baker down the pecking order
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Well it looks like he'll sign. I'd imagine he's got to be on 35-40k a week minimum. That's a lot to be paying for a 3rd/4th choice.
If Lambert goes through the window without addressing fullback and midfield, he's going to get pelters on here (well...more than usual). If we're on a very tight budget, we need to be addressing the more pressing areas. With Okore coming back, we could have got by.
Maybe though this was more a case of Lescott being out of our budget range and we've gone for second on the list.
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Great news. I'm delighted with anything that pushes Baker down the pecking order
I think it's more likely curtains for Clarky to be honest.
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I don't see it that way at all. There may be something in the offing still regarding a sale. maybe. It makes me think we are backing the squad up before looking for first team purchases. Seriously Senderos or Baker? And I like Baker.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
The same point is valid as was made back then.
We get better by trying to sign better players than we currently have and trying to make our current first XI the replacements of the new signings. I have no problem signing Senderos as I mention above, but signing back-ups is what caused the issues last time round.
In an ideal world we would, but the current situation is far from ideal.
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Fuck me. I suppose at least we can stop having to listen to Lambert's " young and hungry" nonsense now. Old and cheap.
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People on twitter talking about Joey Barton now. Jesus wept.
If that cretin ever wears a villa shirt then I'm paying no attention to football until he's gone.
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Senderos and Vlaar look like twins. We'll have Right Said Fred in the middle of our defence.
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People on twitter talking about Joey Barton now. Jesus wept.
If that cretin ever wears a villa shirt then I'm paying no attention to football until he's gone.
Joey Barton and Roy Keane. We're turning into Blues circa 1985..?
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People on twitter talking about Joey Barton now. Jesus wept.
If that cretin ever wears a villa shirt then I'm paying no attention to football until he's gone.
Joey Barton and Roy Keane. We're turning into Blues circa 1985..?
Or another remake of the mean machine
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Clark is no Franz Beckenbauer, but if we moved him on and kept Baker, it'd be, well, disappointing.
Delicately put.
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Chelsea must be annoyed that we've stolen their thunder just as Diego Costa passes his medical.
Senderos signing - doesn't really suggest there's a lot of money about to flood into the club, does it?
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Experienced back-up. Nothing to get overly excited about either way.
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What does a footballer's medical actually consist of? What tests are they given and how long does one take?
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I think Senderos could be a very good acquisition
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Ok as back up. No big deal.
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I don't see the point in replacing not-very-good players with more not-very-good players.
Senderos is fucking rubbish. Let's be totally honest about it. I appreciate we're probably more disposed to find the positives in players, seeing as we're clearly heading for another summer window in Poundland, but really, these players we're discussing here are deeply, deeply underwhelming, even with our new Big Wigan status.
Agreed Senderos is utterly awful. Another BPL club has been mugged into giving him a contract.
Watched him for Fulham a few times last year and he was laughably bad, Bakeresque even.
Must mean the end of the line for Clark or Baker at Villa.
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As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
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What does a footballer's medical actually consist of? What tests are they given and how long does one take?
What is this?
A ball.
You're signed.
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What does a footballer's medical actually consist of? What tests are they given and how long does one take?
What is this?
A ball.
You're signed.
Some of our lot would have clearly failed that...
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I don't see the point in replacing not-very-good players with more not-very-good players.
Senderos is fucking rubbish. Let's be totally honest about it. I appreciate we're probably more disposed to find the positives in players, seeing as we're clearly heading for another summer window in Poundland, but really, these players we're discussing here are deeply, deeply underwhelming, even with our new Big Wigan status.
Agreed Senderos is utterly awful. Another BPL club has been mugged into giving him a contract.
Watched him for Fulham a few times last year and he was laughably bad, Bakeresque even.
Must mean the end of the line for Clark or Baker at Villa.
He's not utterly awful or fxxking rubbish is he though. He's played in the Champions League ( a lot) and for his country. Unless Baker has a grandfather from Gibraltar and moves to Celtic (he'd be good there) he ain't gonna do either. So it's an improvement.
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Hallelujar, praise the lord and fuck a duck it looks like we've finally signed an experienced premier league centre back after waiting for 3 years. Not sure if he's any good but it must be an improvement on Baker and Clark at least.
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What does a footballer's medical actually consist of? What tests are they given and how long does one take?
What is this?
A ball.
You're signed.
Some of our lot would have clearly failed that...
"Hang on. You never said the ball would be all movey abouty. What did that Gerrard & Suarez just do before Brad picked it out of the net?"
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Without any research at all, my abiding impression of Senderos is as a slow, lumbering, clumsy oaf.
UTV!
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Apologies if it's been asked elsewhere, but why in the name of God have signed this donkey when Hangeland is available on a free? Defies belief.
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Apologies if it's been asked elsewhere, but why in the name of God have signed this donkey when Hangeland is available on a free? Defies belief.
Guessing: Donkey is three years' younger, on lower wages & willing to sign for Villa. Whereas, Shrek isn't any of those (aka about to sign for Arry's Rangers.)
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Apparently Fulham had a better record last season with Senderos in the team rather than Hangeland. Not that they had that great a record either way.
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As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
Do we have to? Can't we pretend it's not really happening and, like the last 2 seasons, it's all just a bad dream in a Dallas stylee?
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I think Senderos is also a good pointer.
We haven't had one of them at the club since NRC and Zat. Although Vlaar makes the odd pointing effort, it has to be said.
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As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
Do we have to? Can't we pretend it's not really happening and, like the last 2 seasons, it's all just a bad dream in a Dallas stylee?
4
:-(
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I think Senderos is also a good pointer.
We haven't had one of them at the club since NRC and Zat. Although Vlaar makes the odd pointing effort, it has to be said.
Benteke is a good pointer to the heavens when he scores
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Can't see Barton coming. Maybe if QPR hadn't been promoted
Twat. But would improve us purely in a footballing sense
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I don't see the point in replacing not-very-good players with more not-very-good players.
Senderos is fucking rubbish. Let's be totally honest about it. I appreciate we're probably more disposed to find the positives in players, seeing as we're clearly heading for another summer window in Poundland, but really, these players we're discussing here are deeply, deeply underwhelming, even with our new Big Wigan status.
Agreed Senderos is utterly awful. Another BPL club has been mugged into giving him a contract.
Watched him for Fulham a few times last year and he was laughably bad, Bakeresque even.
Must mean the end of the line for Clark or Baker at Villa.
He's not utterly awful or fxxking rubbish is he though. He's played in the Champions League ( a lot) and for his country. Unless Baker has a grandfather from Gibraltar and moves to Celtic (he'd be good there) he ain't gonna do either. So it's an improvement.
Djimi Traore has a Champions League but was utter shite as is Senderos despite his appearances in the CL or for his country
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I don't see the point in replacing not-very-good players with more not-very-good players.
Senderos is fucking rubbish. Let's be totally honest about it. I appreciate we're probably more disposed to find the positives in players, seeing as we're clearly heading for another summer window in Poundland, but really, these players we're discussing here are deeply, deeply underwhelming, even with our new Big Wigan status.
Agreed Senderos is utterly awful. Another BPL club has been mugged into giving him a contract.
Watched him for Fulham a few times last year and he was laughably bad, Bakeresque even.
Must mean the end of the line for Clark or Baker at Villa.
He's not utterly awful or fxxking rubbish is he though. He's played in the Champions League ( a lot) and for his country. Unless Baker has a grandfather from Gibraltar and moves to Celtic (he'd be good there) he ain't gonna do either. So it's an improvement.
Djimi Traore has a Champions League but was utter shite as is Senderos despite his appearances in the CL or for his country
Indeed, there are plenty of players who have played lots of CL matches and still manage to be rubbish.
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Can't see Barton coming. Maybe if QPR hadn't been promoted
Twat. But would improve us purely in a footballing sense
I've renewed my season ticket. But if we bought Barton, it would go back.
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As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
Do we have to? Can't we pretend it's not really happening and, like the last 2 seasons, it's all just a bad dream in a Dallas stylee?
As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
Do we have to? Can't we pretend it's not really happening and, like the last 2 seasons, it's all just a bad dream in a Dallas stylee?
4
:-(
Sod it, can't we just go all the way back to 1982 and pick things up again from there?
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Can't see Barton coming. Maybe if QPR hadn't been promoted
Twat. But would improve us purely in a footballing sense
I've renewed my season ticket. But if we bought Barton, it would go back.
I'm ashamed to admit this but for some reason I quite like Joey Barton.
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He's better than Baker, so that'll do I guess.
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Can't see Barton coming. Maybe if QPR hadn't been promoted
Twat. But would improve us purely in a footballing sense
I've renewed my season ticket. But if we bought Barton, it would go back.
I'm ashamed to admit this but for some reason I quite like Joey Barton.
That's the thing with Barton, he's actually a good player.
Unfortunately it's the baggage that arrives with him
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Barton gets wound up too easily. But as that seems to be the qualification du jour at Villa Park, he's a nailed-on signing.
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If it keeps Baker and Clark further away from the first team, it's fine with me. I can't watch them any more.
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As it is now seems to be more than idle gossip, made up ITK and/or speculation, might it be a good idea to start a dedicated thread about Senderos?
Done.
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
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Barton gets wound up too easily. But as that seems to be the qualification du jour at Villa Park, he's a nailed-on signing.
Barton is a horrible, horrible bell-end.
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If it keeps Baker and Clark further away from the first team, it's fine with me. I can't watch them any more.
I'm with this, I don't really care who we sign as long as the first team centre half position includes none-of-the-above.
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Another good pointer was also another (maybe the last) Phill we had? Phillip King, pointing with both hands after a great penalty against Inter.
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Barton gets wound up too easily. But as that seems to be the qualification du jour at Villa Park, he's a nailed-on signing.
Barton is a horrible, horrible bell-end.
If we could have Barton without actually having Barton, I'd take him. But since it's both literally and metaphysically impossible, let's just sign somebody different.
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Funny that Senderos and Barton should be linked on the same day. They clearly have history together;
http://youtu.be/QYTcf55B-oY
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
If we go in for Lescott still, you would think Vlaar is off.
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Totally underwhelmed with Senderos.
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
He's nowhere near good enough for them but it's possible it will happen now.
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Experienced back-up. Nothing to get overly excited about either way.
Ah, The LeonardsonPiresHolt defence.
On the other hand, I doubt any bookmaker would take bets on Concrete Ron completing more than 2/3rds of our PL games next season, so it might be an astute transaction. Also, Monsieur Senderos will be able to tell young Donacien what it's all about.
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
He's nowhere near good enough for them but it's possible it will happen now.
having watched two of their centre halves blundering around for England tonight, I'd say he's good enough for them
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
He's nowhere near good enough for them but it's possible it will happen now.
Maybe, but Van Gall does rate him highly.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
What we need is players better than what we have.
Is he?
He's got to be better than Baker and Clark.
He might not be up to much, but surely having played for Arsenal, Milan and Valencia means he's better than those pair? You cannot consistently con that many people can you?
Emile Heskey?
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Good signing bearing in mind we are likely to lose Vlaar and we need an old head at the back.
Lose him to ManU? I think that is highly possible.
He's nowhere near good enough for them but it's possible it will happen now.
Maybe, but Van Gall does rate him highly.
I think a lot of Prem clubs will have come to the conclusion that Vlaar could be quite effective in a decent side. The main drawback is his injury record but the mega rich clubs could deal with this no problem.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
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Brendan McLoughlin @bren_mcloughlin 4m
Senderos began medical with #avfc tonight - aim to have it all tied up by time Swiss fly out to Brazil on Friday. Be a free from Valencia
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
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he's constantly injured as well.
Hurrah! I was hoping for another sicknote!
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Is there such a thing as primal vomiting therapy, because I think that's what I need right now?
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he's constantly injured as well.
Hurrah! I was hoping for another sicknote!
I've snapped my achilles just thinking about him.
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Is he that bad in all honesty? He's not great, no-one signing for us is going to be given the current situation of uncertainty, but hes solid, not a player to sell season tickets but solid.
No complaints from me.
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Is he that bad in all honesty? He's not great, no-one signing for us is going to be given the current situation of uncertainty, but hes solid, not a player to sell season tickets but solid.
No complaints from me.
He's the opposite to solid. He's liquid. Or is that gas. He's essentially condensation.
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The injury thing is a worry.
I've just had a quick look and, across spells at Valencia, Fulham, Everton and Milan, he's started 62 league matches since august 2008.
In fact, since 2001 he has only started 139 league games. Over 13 years, that's nothing.
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As a Villa fan I haven't watched enough of Senderos to have a strong opinion about him. To say he is shit is no different to watch Harewood or Heskey on YouTube and think they are really good. Should he sign I just hope he does well when called upon and has a very good WC.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
Don't imagine that. Not for a single moment.
O, that way madness lies; let me shun that;
No more of that.
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Is he that bad in all honesty? He's not great, no-one signing for us is going to be given the current situation of uncertainty, but hes solid, not a player to sell season tickets but solid.
No complaints from me.
He's the opposite to solid. He's liquid. Or is that gas. He's essentially condensation.
Basically, he's a concept.
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Wonder what he'll be earning a week given he's a free transfer and he's been playing in the prem for 10 years now.
I'll guess at 30k a week.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
Come on. You're now in danger of becoming the villa kicks antithesis.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
Come on. You're now in danger of becoming the villa kicks antithesis.
Au contraire.
I'm far from automatically anti our signings or players, I've spent most of tonight defending Chris Herd, even, but I just look at Senderos and see a big, unaware lump who really isn't very good.
I'll wait and see if we start to do what we need to - buy starters better than those we have - this summer before I dive off any bridges, but I'm not going to pretend I don't think he's rubbish.
Maybe he's coming to be our third choice, but even if that's the case, why are we wasting time and money pissing about on third choice centre backs when we're already one CB better off than last year with Okore?
Anyway, fuck it, I think he's shit, but I genuinely don't care too much. It's not as if we've signed Altidore.
Yet.
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Well I like it when we sign hilarious players. Obviously I'd rather we signed good players but we never really do that consistently. I liked it when we were linked with Dickson Etuhu a few years back for similar reasons. Give me Senderos over Calderwood and Harewood over Baros any day.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
Come on. You're now in danger of becoming the villa kicks antithesis.
Au contraire.
I'm far from automatically anti our signings or players, I've spent most of tonight defending Chris Herd, even, but I just look at Senderos and see a big, unaware lump who really isn't very good.
I'll wait and see if we start to do what we need to - buy starters better than those we have - this summer before I dive off any bridges, but I'm not going to pretend I don't think he's rubbish.
Maybe he's coming to be our third choice, but even if that's the case, why are we wasting time and money pissing about on third choice centre backs when we're already one CB better off than last year with Okore?
Anyway, fuck it, I think he's shit, but I genuinely don't care too much.
Everything you've said is true, and he's still better than Baker and Clarke. Together.
We'll have to take the Dave Brailsford approach, small percentages and all that.
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It's a strange one, this. I think he's shit, but also better than Clark or Baker. So, on balance, a player that improves our defence, but only to the level of fucking rubbish.
How far have we fallen etc etc.
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One of the worst CD that I have ever seen. I did not think that we could sign someone worst than Richard Dunne but probably we did it.
Sadness.
Indeed.
He's rubbish. A big, gormless lump. I appreciate those trying to put a positive spin on it, but really, it's hard to get excited about this sort of signing.
We'll probably sell Vlaar now and he'll turn out to be his replacement. Imagine that.
Come on. You're now in danger of becoming the villa kicks antithesis.
Au contraire.
I'm far from automatically anti our signings or players, I've spent most of tonight defending Chris Herd, even, but I just look at Senderos and see a big, unaware lump who really isn't very good.
I'll wait and see if we start to do what we need to - buy starters better than those we have - this summer before I dive off any bridges, but I'm not going to pretend I don't think he's rubbish.
Maybe he's coming to be our third choice, but even if that's the case, why are we wasting time and money pissing about on third choice centre backs when we're already one CB better off than last year with Okore?
Anyway, fuck it, I think he's shit, but I genuinely don't care too much. It's not as if we've signed Altidore.
Yet.
Maybe because after Okore got injured our 3rd and 4th choice players became crucial. As they have done for the last few seasons. i'm no Senderos apologist but, again, who would you prefer having to fill in? Baker or Senderos?
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Maybe because after Okore got injured our 3rd and 4th choice players became crucial. As they have done for the last few seasons. i'm no Senderos apologist but, again, who would you prefer having to fill in? Baker or Senderos?
That's not the question at hand, though.
We've got - clearly - a small amount of money to be spending, not just on fees, but also on wages. Senderos has come on a free, yes, but that is going to be reflected in higher wages.
If he's on 20 or 30k a week, then to be honest, I can see lots of other positions I'd rather we allocated wages money to.
My issue with Baker and Clark isn't so much that I don't want them ever to play for us, it is that I don't want them to play for us every week, and certainly not both of them.
To illustrate what I mean, I'd rather we paid someone like Lescott 50k a week than Senderos 20 or 30k, because Lescott would dramatically improve our defensive options, whereas Senderos would marginally improve them.
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According to Arsenal mania.com:
"His greatest asset is his innate ability to read the game, but often times he has been criticised for lacking pace and strength."
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It's absolutely the question. if we were after a first choice centre-half and the answer was Senderos it would be time to question the sense and logic of the signing. As it is, we're looking at an improvement on Clark and Baker. We have over relied on these two over the past two years and Senderos is an improvement. even if it is fro a Midland Comb to a Southern midland league type improvement. But still, improvement it is and I'd rather Senderos fill in for 25 games a season than the other two.
that's all we're saying. not our brave newworld signing. Just better than what we have in reserve. I see nothing wrong with it.
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It's absolutely the question. if we were after a first choice centre-half and the answer was Senderos it would be time to question the sense and logic of the signing. As it is, we're looking at an improvement on Clark and Baker. We have over relied on these two over the past two years and Senderos is an improvement. even if it is fro a Midland Comb to a Southern midland league type improvement. But still, improvement it is and I'd rather Senderos fill in for 25 games a season than the other two.
that's all we're saying. not our brave newworld signing. Just better than what we have in reserve. I see nothing wrong with it.
Surely the question isn't whether he's an improvement, more whether he's enough of an improvement to make it worth chucking 20k a week at him.
When the question is "are you better than Nathan Baker?", it's not really the toughest of criteria.
Anyway, I agree in that he's not the brave new world signing, so let's wait and see. I'm just resigned to the fact that this is the level of signing we'll make.
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It's absolutely the question. if we were after a first choice centre-half and the answer was Senderos it would be time to question the sense and logic of the signing. As it is, we're looking at an improvement on Clark and Baker. We have over relied on these two over the past two years and Senderos is an improvement. even if it is fro a Midland Comb to a Southern midland league type improvement. But still, improvement it is and I'd rather Senderos fill in for 25 games a season than the other two.
that's all we're saying. not our brave newworld signing. Just better than what we have in reserve. I see nothing wrong with it.
Surely the question isn't whether he's an improvement, more whether he's enough of an improvement to make it worth chucking 20k a week at him.
When the question is "are you better than Nathan Baker?", it's not really the toughest of criteria.
Anyway, I agree in that he's not the brave new world signing, so let's wait and see. I'm just resigned to the fact that this is the level of signing we'll make.
In real terms, 20-30k a week gets you fuck all, not in the free market, and I'll bet when you filter the free market with our wage restrictions his name would stick out like a beacon, an international experienced in your league.
We need to ensure both Baker or Clarke are employed at centre half as little as possible.
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It's absolutely the question. if we were after a first choice centre-half and the answer was Senderos it would be time to question the sense and logic of the signing. As it is, we're looking at an improvement on Clark and Baker. We have over relied on these two over the past two years and Senderos is an improvement. even if it is fro a Midland Comb to a Southern midland league type improvement. But still, improvement it is and I'd rather Senderos fill in for 25 games a season than the other two.
that's all we're saying. not our brave newworld signing. Just better than what we have in reserve. I see nothing wrong with it.
Surely the question isn't whether he's an improvement, more whether he's enough of an improvement to make it worth chucking 20k a week at him.
When the question is "are you better than Nathan Baker?", it's not really the toughest of criteria.
Anyway, I agree in that he's not the brave new world signing, so let's wait and see. I'm just resigned to the fact that this is the level of signing we'll make.
Withour trying to go around and around surely this can be seen for what it may be. The possibility of a cheap replacement for our reserves coming onto the market who wants to come to Villa Park. And, in Prem terms Ł20k per week isn't a lot. I saw odemwingie's wages the other day and trust me Ł20k per week is highly unlikely a figure but who knows.
As it is, it's not the end of the transfer deadline but pre- World Cup. We're filling in some blanks that may or may not come off. We may, or may not, buy another defender or two. I wouldn't panic in early June about our strange signings.
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No, that's a fair point, let's wait and see how the window pans out.
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I feel the same as I did when we signed Grant Holt. Can we just pause everything now and come back when we have new owners?
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As long as the 40k-ish a week he'll probably cost us won't significantly reduce our budget for more pressing positions, then I'm not too fussed on this.
If however we come to August 31st and are left short in positions we're desperately lacking quality in, then it'll be yet another howler from Lambert.
Better than Baker, on a par perhaps with Clark. But should we be putting those wages to better use? Probably.
Seems patently obvious though that we were never, ever in with a shout for Lescott.
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As long as the 40k-ish a week he'll probably cost us
If we are paying Senderos 40k a week, then we have learned nothing and never will.
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As long as the 40k-ish a week he'll probably cost us
If we are paying Senderos 40k a week, then we have learned nothing and never will.
Just a guess given his age, previous clubs and experience. Probably more likely 30ish you'd hope, but even so, he's not going to come cheap.
Would think he'll be on at least parity with Vlaar.
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Is he that bad in all honesty? He's not great, no-one signing for us is going to be given the current situation of uncertainty, but hes solid, not a player to sell season tickets but solid.
No complaints from me.
He's the opposite to solid. He's liquid. Or is that gas. He's essentially condensation.
Basically, he's a concept.
He won Valencia's abstraction of the season at their end of year awards.
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I suspect Senderos will come here as a first choice too. Okore is obviously still young and new to Prem football. I also wonder whether we'll either carry on with 3 CH's, or whether Lambert tries Okore out at RB.
I don't see Senderos being seen as simply a Baker replacement. I think he's coming in as Vlaars first choice partner. Certainly, he's not going to come to us to be 3rd or 4th choice either. This is a bit of worry, on account of him being bobbins. That said, somehow or another Senderos has managed 52 caps for a reasonable footballing nation, and has played for Arsenal, Milan, Fulham and Valencia in his time. Much like Titus Bramble, he's fooled the footballing world into believing he's a Premiership footballer, despite a long list of gaffs.
Still, if it keeps Baker out the side... (it's a bit like trading Mr Bean for Mr Magoo to be fair).
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Is he that bad in all honesty? He's not great, no-one signing for us is going to be given the current situation of uncertainty, but hes solid, not a player to sell season tickets but solid.
No complaints from me.
He's the opposite to solid. He's liquid. Or is that gas. He's essentially condensation.
Basically, he's a concept.
So he's a figment of my imagination and won't play at Villa Park at all? I can live with that.
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Would rather have given Albrighton his wage instead.
Fine if we fuck Baker off. I think Clark is worth persevering with.
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Good luck to him. He'll be better than Baker or Clark. When I've seen him in the last few years he's looked ok. Underwhelming I agree, but that's how we roll these days. It's not his fault. I wish him all the best.
Welcome to The Home of Football (and Shattered Dreams) Philippe.
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As long as the 40k-ish a week he'll probably cost us
If we are paying Senderos 40k a week, then we have learned nothing and never will.
Just a guess given his age, previous clubs and experience. Probably more likely 30ish you'd hope, but even so, he's not going to come cheap.
Would think he'll be on at least parity with Vlaar.
God I hope not. He's been passed around clubs who don't seem to want him so I'm hoping twenty tops
I've also wondered whether Okore may play at right back, though we've also got Hutton and both bacuna and Lowton have shown enough not to give up on them there
I hope we don't play 532 next season. We just don't keep the ball at all when we do (hull at home the exception). But I've got a nasty feeling we might do as that's where lambert goes when he's feeling under the cosh
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This surely confirms the end of project "young and hungry"
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Comment from poster on F365:
"Keane in. Senderos in. Blinking heck. It's like it's being run by a drunk 8 year old on some football management game. "
Made me smile.
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Hopeefully Okore will be a massive improvement on Baker. Senderos will probably be 4th choice.
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I'll give him a chance, he kept Sol Campbell out of the side at one point and played really well with Toure. From what I've been reading the Arsenal fans quite liked him, but in the end just thought of him as a good backup.
He's got plenty of experience and is not going to be dominated as much as our younger defenders.
Swiss international and they have a pretty solid team.
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Agree. All things considered it's a good signing.
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I have always though of him is a so so sort of player prone to inexplicable cock ups. Thats a step up from Baker as his cock ups are easily explained by him being rubbish.
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I don't think it would be a bad signing. Bags of experience and can fill in when Vlaar is inevitably injured. No fee either.
He is bang average but that is what your back ups should be.
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I suppose it came down to a choice - we could spend the Albrighton wages improving Vlaar's pay, or we could sign an extra player. I figure Vlaar's already been sounded out about a new contract and is about a month away from being pictured next to Van Gaal as his first United signing, so Lambert's probably preparing for a worst-case scenario.
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Vlaar to Yanited? Lulz.
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I have always though of him is a so so sort of player prone to inexplicable cock ups. Thats a step up from Baker as his cock ups are easily explained by him being rubbish.
And hopefully is cock ups are lesss frequent than Clark's as well. Personally I think Clark has had a get out of jail card this season as Baker was utterly dire. He is no way a Premiership player or otherwise.
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Not exactly a signing to make me part with Ł545.00 to renew my season ticket. Thanks Randy, just sell-up asap....
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I have always though of him is a so so sort of player prone to inexplicable cock ups. Thats a step up from Baker as his cock ups are easily explained by him being rubbish.
And hopefully is cock ups are lesss frequent than Clark's as well. Personally I think Clark has had a get out of jail card this season as Baker was utterly dire. He is no way a Premiership player or otherwise.
I had hopes for Clark but he doesn't seem to have developed as you might expect in fact he probably went backwards. You never know, now that we have more options he might kick on again.
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Clark and Baker would in my opinion be a lot better had they been introduced into the first team alongside an experienced centre half. In Lambert's first season Clark was the most experienced premiership player in the back 4 with 30 odd games under his belt. Added to that the defensive midfielder in front of them had just been signed from League One. It was always going to be a struggle. What I don't like and is the constant slating of two lads who have risen through the ranks. Their attitudes have never been in question and if they aren't good enough then that is more of a problem with the club. By all means knock a lack of effort, for me that is unforgivable at any level of football. Five seasons ago I would have viewed the signing of Senderos on the same level as I did when we signed Harewood. However in 2014, Senderos is an improvement on the squad.
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Vlaar to Yanited? Lulz.
I'm sure that's what Van Gaal did when he saw Smalling attempt to pass himself off as the heir to Vidic last night.
Vlaar's not a Champions League defender, but then United aren't a Champions League team.
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He's 29, an international and has played in the Prem. He wouldn't have been on my list of players to buy but overall don't see the harm in it.
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They're the biggest club in the world and likely to drop Ł200 million, despite not being in the Champions League. Vlaar is a good player, but he's not good enough for them.
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A totally meh! signing but what else should we expect? Possibly a step up from Nathan "bull in a china shop" Baker who is less of a CB and more of a ICBM when he launches himself. As for Clark, never really rated the chap. I can't see that he ever had the key things needed to succeed at the top level such as pace, strength, and positioning.
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I think Clark's ahead of Baker simply because he can fill-in at Left back and as a holding midfielder if needs be. In fact, when he did that job under Houllier, he probably played the best football of his career.
I think the big mistake that we made with Clark was not loaning him out to a Championship side before throwing him into the first-team. After the success that this brought with Cahill it's always baffled me that the Club haven't actively looked to do this with more of our youngsters.
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
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Baker isn't ever going to be a good player though.
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They're the biggest club in the world and likely to drop Ł200 million, despite not being in the Champions League. Vlaar is a good player, but he's not good enough for them.
With Vidic and ferdinand off he's better than all of their current centre-backs and is already known and trusted by the Manager. Unless they've got 2 World-Class centre backs lined-up (who are willing to join a team not in europe) it's almost a no-brainer of a signing for them.
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
I think it's because it's fairly clear particularly in Baker's case that he won't become a good player.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
To put it into perspective, Clark is older now than Gareth Southgate was when we signed him. Baker only a few months younger. They're not kids anymore and if they're not good enough we should be looking to sell them, not loan them out.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
I think so. We'd probably accept Ł4m for him, with one year left on his contract.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
I actually agree with you - Vlaar isn't good enough for them. But I still think it'll happen. I'm torn between thinking Vlaar looks better because his colleagues are shit, or he'll get better with better players around him.
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As long as we dont give him longer than a 2 year contract then i have no problem with this signing
But lets just hope that this does not mean that Vlaar is leaving us to go to pastures new.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
I actually agree with you - Vlaar isn't good enough for them. But I still think it'll happen. I'm torn between thinking Vlaar looks better because his colleagues are shit, or he'll get better with better players around him.
I guess the World Cup will be a good indicator of that. The Dutch have some very highly rated young defenders but Vlaar seems to be the first choice, with A.N.other alongside him.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
I think so. We'd probably accept Ł4m for him, with one year left on his contract.
It's a possible, of course but by no means the certainty some seem to think. I know they had a dip last season but they are still one of the richest clubs in the world and therefore have far more options than when choosing a Dutch national side.
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
I think it's because it's fairly clear particularly in Baker's case that he won't become a good player.
A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
To put it into perspective, Clark is older now than Gareth Southgate was when we signed him. Baker only a few months younger. They're not kids anymore and if they're not good enough we should be looking to sell them, not loan them out.
Why would they suddenly start to become good players, just because they have more experience? If they lack the basic qualities, I doubt they are suddenly going to acquire them. Certain things could theoretically be improved by good coaching such as Baker's tendency to dive in and throw himself around, and Clark's poor positioning. But pace, strength, and composure are much harder failings to address. I do think the coaching at Villa has possibly let them down - e.g. has no-one ever worked with Baker and suggested he try to stay on his feet a bit more? As stated above, they are not kids any more and I don't buy into this "they are young and can only get better" bollocks frequently spouted as a reason to stick with players. And let's not pretend Clark "can fill in at left back". Only if you are comparing him to duds like Luna and Bennett maybe. He was as woeful there as he is at CB, probably worse.
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Vlaar a no brainer for Yanited? Fair enough.
I think so. We'd probably accept Ł4m for him, with one year left on his contract.
It's a possible, of course but by no means the certainty some seem to think. I know they had a dip last season but they are still one of the richest clubs in the world and therefore have far more options than when choosing a Dutch national side.
I genuinely think Van Gaal rates him highly. I would like to think you're spot on, I just wouldn't be surprised if he did leave.
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and let's not pretend Clark "can fill in at left back". Only if you are comparing him to duds like Luna and Bennett maybe. He was as woeful there as he is at CB, probably worse.
Unfortunately they are the only 2 left-backs that he can fill-in for, currently.
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I'd be very surprised if Vlaar isn't playing for Man Utd next season.
He's not as good as Ferdinand or Vidic, but they don't have Ferdinand or Vidic anymore. He is better at the moment than any of Jones, Smalling and Evans. With a year left and his national team manager about to go there I can't see why they wouldn't sign him. They're not in the Champions League, so they're not going to be shopping in the same market as Man City and Chelsea.
I expect he'd go and I wouldn't blame him for a moment if he did.
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
To put it into perspective, Clark is older now than Gareth Southgate was when we signed him. Baker only a few months younger. They're not kids anymore and if they're not good enough we should be looking to sell them, not loan them out.
I clearly rate Baker a little more than most on here, regardless the strategy of sending him on loan is partially to make sure we get the maximum amount of money for him if/when we do sell him. If he's worth say Ł1m now I reckon he'd fetch Ł3m after a strong season in the championship i.e. when he's 'top dog' and his confidence can grow a bit. Ideally the loan would have happened already but...
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A colleague of mine made a fair point (liverpool) fan: Why blood two youngsters (Clark and Baker) and suffer all the pain that inevitably comes with having inexperienced CBs and then buy a replacement at the point when they should in theory start to become good players?
I hope this means that Baker can go on loan for a season at a championship club.
To put it into perspective, Clark is older now than Gareth Southgate was when we signed him. Baker only a few months younger. They're not kids anymore and if they're not good enough we should be looking to sell them, not loan them out.
I clearly rate Baker a little more than most on here, regardless the strategy of sending him on loan is partially to make sure we get the maximum amount of money for him if/when we do sell him. If he's worth say Ł1m now I reckon he'd fetch Ł3m after a strong season in the championship i.e. when he's 'top dog' and his confidence can grow a bit. Ideally the loan would have happened already but...
No, sell now whilst they think he's just inexperienced. A year in the championship will probably expose him as not being up to that level.
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Hangleland available on a free - would rather him than Senderos for a season or two
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Baker isn't ever going to be a good player though.
[/quoteBaker isn't ever going to be a good player though.
As centre half's go Clark and Baker are still babies, John Terry looked shit when he first started out, in fact I can't think of to many players in that position who look decent at a relatively youngish age.
Clark and Baker can still improve a hell of a lot not sure if they will get the chance at Villa though.
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Hangleland available on a free - would rather him than Senderos for a season or two
He's three years older and by all accounts was shocking last season.
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Senderos is very average. His acquisition - if confirmed - is a signal of our status as a club in limbo.
If we sell Vlaar to Manure then I'd hope for two things:
1. that we absolutely tonk them for a high fee: let's bloody make on if we have to sell our captain and most experienced defender.
2. that we get another CB in that can add some class and dependability (as hopefully Okore will) because Senderos and Clark are not entirely reliable.
I'd also hope that there is a plan to acquire a reliable left back and a reliable right back.
Baker is - IMO - no Premiership CB and we should be looking to get a fee for him from either a promoted side or an aspiring Championship side.
If Vlaar is going, does this signal that we'd be prepared to listen to offers on our other marketable players? - Guzan, Delph, Benteke, Weimann, Bacuna, Kozak?
Shite, times is hard.
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I like how everyone has Vlaar sold, on the basis of absolutely fuck all.
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Hangleland available on a free - would rather him than Senderos for a season or two
He's three years older and by all accounts was shocking last season.
I agree. I think his form has plummetted in the last few years, possibly due to the PL move away from target men type strikers and a preference for more mobile forwards, compounded by him getting slower as he's aged too.
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As centre half's go Clark and Baker are still babies, John Terry looked shit when he first started out, in fact I can't think of to many players in that position who look decent at a relatively youngish age.
There are plenty. For example, Gary Cahill was head and shoulders above both of them when MON deemed him surplus to requirements. Ciaran Clark will be 25 by the time we've played 5 games next season. That's not 'youngish' regardless of where he plays.
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People are saying Senderos is average and they are right but at the minute that's where we are, a free player is better than spending a few million and a long term deal with all the uncertainty around the club
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I like how everyone has Vlaar sold, on the basis of absolutely fuck all.
2+2=5
If we replaced him with Lescott, then I'd cash in. It seems like Randy's delaying the contracts for Delph, Vlaar and Gabby, at the moment. There's a danger we lose three of our best players for nowt next summer. In Vlaars case, I think he's got 1-2 more years at this level in him so if LVG decides he wants Concrete then I'd take the money and run.
But that is on the basis we sign another good CH, because Senderos is no replacement for Vlaar.
As for Vlaar not being Utd level. Right now he is, and for a year or two of transition for them he'd do a good job I think. That said, they've just lost Ferdinand and Vidic, both of whom have struggled with injuries in the tail end of their Yanited careers. Would they really want to buy a CH like Vlaar, with an equally piss poor injury record?
LVG does love Ron though.
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And besides, 'average' is better than we have, so there's that, too.
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He's the kind of player who when mentioned in match reports usually had the word 'hapless' in front of his name.
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Phil will come in handy now that Man U have signed Vlaar, especially if, as expected, Bayern Munich buy Clark and Real Madrid go for Baker.
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And Barcelona buy Luna.
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Ooooh, oooh, I've got one!
And Grasshoppers of Zurich buy Lowton!
That didn't work did it?
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Surely our squad would be snapped up by Young Boys of Berne. Or a team from Hungary.
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Ooooh, oooh, I've got one!
And Grasshoppers of Zurich buy Lowton!
That didn't work did it?
Grasssomkers might buy him.
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Surely our squad would be snapped up by Young Boys of Berne. Or a team from Hungary.
In the same way that Cameroon are dubbed the "Indomitable Lions" and Tunisia are called the "Carthage Eagles", I've always hoped that the Magyar national team were called "The Hungary Hungary Hippoes". Bet they're not though, the boring bastards.
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People are saying Senderos is average and they are right but at the minute that's where we are, a free player is better than spending a few million and a long term deal with all the uncertainty around the club
As centre half's go Clark and Baker are still babies, John Terry looked shit when he first started out, in fact I can't think of to many players in that position who look decent at a relatively youngish age.
There are plenty. For example, Gary Cahill was head and shoulders above both of them when MON deemed him surplus to requirements. Ciaran Clark will be 25 by the time we've played 5 games next season. That's not 'youngish' regardless of where he plays.
Plenty! Cahill and erm? I wouldn't be surprised if Vlaar is wanted by Man Utd to add experience to help Smalling and Jones develop.
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more example, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
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Players can develop at different rates, but in the case of Baker and Clark they've been playing pretty regularly over three seasons and neither has developed, if anything they've got worse.
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Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
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Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
Hahaha
Playing alongside eachother hasn't helped either of them develop.
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Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
If we're being linked with Keane as a Coach and Joey Barton as a player I think it's important that we all start showing a bit of a nasty-streak. Let me know if you have a problem with that. (See what I did there?)
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
Hahaha
Playing alongside eachother hasn't helped either of them develop.
What, LeeB and Olneythelonely...? Yeah, I've thought that too.
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Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
That's nothing. Wait til Chris Smith calls you a middle-class interloper.
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
Sorry- wasn't meant as an insult. Just a reaction to your initial comment which came across as a bit patronising (so thought I'd return the favour!). No hard feelings?
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Or someone says that you are "Typical of the uneducated working class"
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
Hahaha
Playing alongside eachother hasn't helped either of them develop.
What, LeeB and Olneythelonely...? Yeah, I've thought that too.
He holds me back.
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
Sorry- wasn't meant as an insult. Just a reaction to your initial comment which came across as a bit patronising (so thought I'd return the favour!). No hard feelings?
No hard feelings.
-
Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
Sorry- wasn't meant as an insult. Just a reaction to your initial comment which came across as a bit patronising (so thought I'd return the favour!). No hard feelings?
No hard feelings.
You're still wrong though. ;-)
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
Hold him down and give him a Chinese burn*.
*not racist
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More I think about it, the more it is just a cover player in a position we have been left exposed in time and again. We start next season, if Vlaar doesn't go, and I think he will let his contract run down and go free to be honest the year later, 2 international central defenders better off than we ended last season. A decent holding midfielder comes in too then I reckon we would stay up on that squad alone, adding in a forward and creator would be a bonus. Just a left back left to get then. Assuming Luna goes home and Bennett is used in a makeweight for a lower league player somewhere.
All in all very meh, but a player we will probably be thankful for when injuries bite.
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I honestly think we did well to not get relegated last season with the squad we have. I expect QPR and Leicester to stay up next season and if we are outside of the bottome 5 i will be surprised. We need at least 4 first team additions.
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Senderos is 29 now which is supposed to be about the peak time for a central defender isn't it? He might not be the best player but his experience should help anchor the defence a bit more, and if Vlaar stays and Okore comes back I would have thought we're in slightly better shape. Need to get a decent left back now.
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He will be an improvement surely?
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I'm not too sure Senderos will be seen as just 'back up', to be honest. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him starting the season in our starting eleven, regardless of whether Vlaar is still here or not. It could be as one of three centre-backs, maybe, alongside Vlaar and Okore.
Is the Vlaar thing just idle speculation, by the way, or is there gossip pertaining to him moving on?
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It's just that it seems we always lose our good players after an international tournament I think?
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I know Van Gaal always picks Vlaar for the Netherlands but signing him for Man Utd would be madness. He's nothing more than "steady" at the best of times.
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I've never rated Senderos, I really really hope I end up eating a big plate of pie, made of humble.
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I know Van Gaal always picks Vlaar for the Netherlands but signing him for Man Utd would be madness. He's nothing more than "steady" at the best of times.
So he's probably a bit ahead of their other three centre-backs then?
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I've never rated Senderos, I really really hope I end up eating a big plate of pie, made of humble.
Thing is we don't see enough of him to make a full and educated judgement on a player. It's no different to watching highlights of Tonev on YouTube blasting it in with either foot from 30yds and thinking he's ace only to realise when he gets here that the previous 200 shots which you didn't see ended up in the car park.
He'll be a solid at times, mostly reliable back up. He'll be a presence at both ends at set pieces. But expect at times to hold your head in your hands as makes a tool of himself.
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I know Van Gaal always picks Vlaar for the Netherlands but signing him for Man Utd would be madness. He's nothing more than "steady" at the best of times.
So he's probably a bit ahead of their other three centre-backs then?
He's no Jaap Stam though is he :-)
I suspect this link has been made by someone with an odd sense of humour.
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Regarding Senderos, why not give him a chance before writing him off? He's the right age and experience with the right fee for us at the moment, and he could do a good job. He's got a good pedigree from earlier in his career, sometimes players can go off the boil but come back stronger in the right set up.
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Losing vlaar doesn't concern me too much. Overall he's been quite poor I think and is quite injury prone.
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
Hold him down and give him a Chinese burn*.
*not racist
We'll let you off this once. Any ideas on what the P.C name for it is anyone?
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Losing Vlaar and replacing him with Senderos would be a massive problem if that we to happen. I'm hoping Senderos would just be to supplement the squad.
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What about Hangeland?
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What about Hangeland?
Not sure, but i believe he's now 'shit'.
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Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
Hold him down and give him a Chinese burn*.
*not racist
We'll let you off this once. Any ideas on what the P.C name for it is anyone?
It's not racist so it doesn't need one.
Anyway, it's my online tag on the PS3.
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I've never rated Senderos, I really really hope I end up eating a big plate of pie, made of humble.
When my son came home from school yesterday I asked him to guess which defender Villa were likely to sign. He asked for a clue and it was 'Not quite as bad/funny as Titus Bramble but just as gormless'. Got it in one.
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What about Hangeland?
When they beat us 2-0 at CC they both played well I recall. Not that they had much to do.
Don't remember much about the villa park defeat
Edit. Just checked and BH didn't play in the CC game
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I was just thinking that Senderos played very well against us at Craven Cottage. So much so that I remember remarking "we're so shit we're making Senderos look good".
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I was just thinking that Senderos played very well against us at Craven Cottage. So much so that I remember remarking "we're so shit we're making Senderos look good".
Yep, that was one of several remarks. Likewise "we're so shit we're making Sidwell look good."
We might as well re-sign Sidwell too, to be honest. If this is our level right now, he'd improve our midfield...as sad as that sounds.
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Aaron Hughes aswell
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Plenty! Cahill and erm?
Cahill was a Villa example. I was going to give Ramos and Pique as examples but thought they were a bit too obvious. If you're after a few more examples though, how about this 24 year-old centre-back Man Utd signed a few years ago...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4570634.stm
or how about this 23 year old?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm
Or how about when Villa signed a 24 year-old Olof Mellberg? or Spurs signed 22 year-old Michael Dawson.... let me know if you need any other examples.
I'm sorry, but if you honestly still class Baker and Clark as "babies" then you're seriously deluded.
Why how grown up of you to start throwing insults at members who try and make a contribution to a forum.. Just because you don't agree with people it doesn't give you the right to star calling people deluded.
Sorry- wasn't meant as an insult. Just a reaction to your initial comment which came across as a bit patronising (so thought I'd return the favour!). No hard feelings?
No hard feelings.
Try Viagra.
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Aaron Hughes aswell
He must be about 50 by now. I think QPR have let him go so he'll be on a free! ;)
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
Hahaha
Playing alongside eachother hasn't helped either of them develop.
What, LeeB and Olneythelonely...? Yeah, I've thought that too.
He holds me back.
Bollocks. I've carried you for years.
-
Why do people get so angry with each other on message boards? It scares me.
FUCK OFF!!!!!!
You're a meany.
Hold him down and give him a Chinese burn*.
*not racist
We'll let you off this once. Any ideas on what the P.C name for it is anyone?
It's not racist so it doesn't need one.
Anyway, it's my online tag on the PS3.
Wee hole is the one I struggle with mainly. I only know the medical term and the racist one. I can't call it a wee hole.
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Aaron Hughes aswell
He must be about 50 by now. I think QPR have let him go so he'll be on a free! ;)
With Aaron Hughes and Luke Young back in the ranks we will be unstoppable.
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Just seen its a done deal
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Shirt-stretching time...
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3883353,00.html
Welcome to Villa, and best of luck, Philippe.
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
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In the shirt on the balcony.
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Good signing. An experienced player who can bolster our shaky defence.
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I've always liked him. <pinnochio emoticon>
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There seems to be no mention there of how long a contract he has been given. Anyone any ideas?
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2 years
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Isn't he Swiss?
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2 years
Cheers!
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Does it apply to the Swiss too?
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Not sure this will work but
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/474555930575503360
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Did it work?
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Good luck Philippe, you're better than Baker.
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Not sure this will work but
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/474555930575503360
The bells are ringing in the background...it's a sign!
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I'm excited, He's got a similar name to me so I'm going to stick up for him
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
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Best of luck mate, im looking forward to the thread which lauds your tremendous season 2014/15
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If someone suggested signing Senderos before the rumours we all would of slaughtered that person and told him he's mad. Now it's happened I'm not going to jump ship and now follow suit with "he might do well" or "Better than Baker & Clark"....I'm sticking to my guns because of one thing, "I have watched him over that last 10 years and he is RUBBISH" and magically he won't change because he has signed for the club I love.
God help us if this is a sign of things to come while we're up for sale.
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Why did I just look at him on Youtube....he looks world class now!!!
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If someone suggested signing Senderos before the rumours we all would of slaughtered that person and told him he's mad. Now it's happened I'm not going to jump ship and now follow suit with "he might do well" or "Better than Baker & Clark"....I'm sticking to my guns because of one thing, "I have watched him over that last 10 years and he is RUBBISH" and magically he won't change because he has signed for the club I love.
God help us if this is a sign of things to come while we're up for sale.
He is though better than Baker and Clark. If and when he might have to play his part due to some injuries I think he might help add 3 or 4 points to the team.
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Welcome and good luck Philippe.
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Does it apply to the Swiss too?
In fairness I would have to say no. Particularly those of Serbian and Spanish parentage. In fairness our Serbian players have never let us down
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How many points have Baker and Clark cost us these last 2 seasons? Plenty, I'm almost 100% sure Senderos won't cost us as many. That's the level we are at at the moment, 3rd choice centre half wont be seen as a priority position with the lack of funds we currently have.
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Best of luck Philippe, you are going to need it with us!
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This may well signify that Villa Kicks is now our chief scout, but what the hell...Welcome aboard Philippe.
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Does it apply to the Swiss too?
In fairness I would have to say no. Particularly those of Serbian and Spanish parentage. In fairness our Serbian players have never let us down
Which Serbian players would those be? Savo "spits at his own fans" Milosevic, or Sasa "nose job" Curcic?
Or have I forgotten anybody?
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How many points have Baker and Clark cost us these last 2 seasons? Plenty, I'm almost 100% sure Senderos won't cost us as many. That's the level we are at at the moment, 3rd choice centre half wont be seen as a priority position with the lack of funds we currently have.
This for me. This is our level at the minute. It's a freebie, two year deal, and you'd hope not too much of a knock on the wage bill. He definitely betters Baker, and arguably Clark.
The one aspect of the deal I do like, is that it's been done very early. We clearly need re-enforcements and thankfully we've been able to starting moving on players quickly, despite the uncertainty around the clubs future.
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This Phil bloke, is he one of these Johnny-come-lately, fancy Dan, champagne Charlies who wears red boots types?
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
If you look at the squad that finished at Spurs, then adding Senderos, Okore, Kozak and N'Zogbia and dare I say it, even Hutton (given Lowton's poor form) makes us stronger.
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Does it apply to the Swiss too?
In fairness I would have to say no. Particularly those of Serbian and Spanish parentage. In fairness our Serbian players have never let us down
Which Serbian players would those be? Savo "spits at his own fans" Milosevic, or Sasa "nose job" Curcic?
Or have I forgotten anybody?
No I think that covers them all. I am sure a mate told me a story how a girl he knew was at Curcic's house one night and all the cupboards were full of custard
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Welcome and good luck.
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Poor, cheap, uninspiring signing. Something we've come to expect over the last 4 or so years.
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Just seen its a done deal
Great news. Whenever we get an aging French player they usually step it up in the twilight of their careers. I wonder if he will be driven down the motorway on a daily basis like Pires or will he be more like Ginola and delight in showing off his Ronaldoesque body (You decide which Ronaldo)
Does it apply to the Swiss too?
In fairness I would have to say no. Particularly those of Serbian and Spanish parentage. In fairness our Serbian players have never let us down
Which Serbian players would those be? Savo "spits at his own fans" Milosevic, or Sasa "nose job" Curcic?
Or have I forgotten anybody?
No I think that covers them all. I am sure a mate told me a story how a girl he knew was at Curcic's house one night and all the cupboards were full of custard
No wonder he signed for Villa *obscure Birds' custard joke*
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
52 for Switzerland. He could end up having more international appearances than appearances for his clubs (not combined).
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
52 for Switzerland. He could end up having more international appearances than appearances for his clubs (not combined).
By the end of the World Cup he could end up having only played for Arsenal more times than Switzerland. 57 appearances for Fulham so 6 to go to beat that.
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
If you look at the squad that finished at Spurs, then adding Senderos, Okore, Kozak and N'Zogbia and dare I say it, even Hutton (given Lowton's poor form) makes us stronger.
+Bent. We're rocking!
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
If you look at the squad that finished at Spurs, then adding Senderos, Okore, Kozak and N'Zogbia and dare I say it, even Hutton (given Lowton's poor form) makes us stronger.
+Bent. We're rocking!
Champions League here we come!
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I suppose that given the circumstances, it would be unrealistic to hope for better. My memories of Senderos are as an accident waiting to happen every match, though.
Still, he's one of us now, so good luck to him. Maybe he'll surprise us. I'll be looking out for him at the WC.
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
If you look at the squad that finished at Spurs, then adding Senderos, Okore, Kozak and N'Zogbia and dare I say it, even Hutton (given Lowton's poor form) makes us stronger.
+Bent. We're rocking!
Champions League here we come!
Negative bastard! Champions of England!
But seriously, having a few more players who aren't Baker or Clark to choose from cannot be a bad thing.
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On paper Senderos is a good signing, but I remember him as someone who always seemed to get bullied pretty easily and was injured a lot. I can't say I've watched him play too many times though, so I wish him all the best. As far as free transfers go he'll be one of the higher profile ones and I guess that's probably what we're going to be looking at in the main.
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I think we've a stronger squad now than we did this morning.
If you look at the squad that finished at Spurs, then adding Senderos, Okore, Kozak and N'Zogbia and dare I say it, even Hutton (given Lowton's poor form) makes us stronger.
+Bent. We're rocking!
You could even add Benteke!
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I didn't know until today that Senderos converted to Islam a couple of years ago.
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I'll give anyone a chance and doubt he'd be more of a risk than Clark/baker, but he's never impressed before and, most depressingly, alongside the keane rumours it doesn't suggest a change or regime is imminent.
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This years Oyvind Leonhardsen award for Most Desperate Injury Prone Signing goes to..............
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Just what we need, a player with proven relegation experience.
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Just what we need, a player with proven relegation experience.
What relegation experience is that?
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What can you do? Look at the state we're in. Does what it says on the tin kind of signing. He won't be a starter, it'll be Okore and Vlaar, he'll make the odd sub appearance, replacing either Clark or Baker and playing the cup games.
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With our injury luck there will be a stage in the season when Baker and Senderos will line up together.
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With our injury luck there will be a stage in the season when Baker and Senderos will line up together.
Might as well stick Benteke and Kozak at the back then those two together :O
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Just what we need, a player with proven relegation experience.
What relegation experience is that?
Maybe in another universe Valencia got relegated last season?
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
Charlie needs company and they will both be able to speak french , I think .
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Just what we need, a player with proven relegation experience.
What relegation experience is that?
Maybe in another universe Valencia got relegated last season?
I think he also was responsible for Milan going down too, and the Swiss not getting to the World Cup in Brazil.
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He also took Arsenal down.
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He went down with Everton too.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
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Well said Dip
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I didn't know until today that Senderos converted to Islam a couple of years ago.
Does he have an opinion on the Shunnamites?
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
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Senderos is where we are as a club now. Better get used to it.
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
Charlie needs company and they will both be able to speak french , I think .
Charlie don't surf
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
I did read the last line. I,m talking about now, not some unknown time in the future. Does TV know we're being taken over in the next few weeks. A takeover could take months, well into next season. So until that happens we ain't gonna sign top quality players.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
I did read the last line. I,m talking about now, not some unknown time in the future. Does TV know we're being taken over in the next few weeks. A takeover could take months, well into next season. So until that happens we ain't gonna sign top quality players.
That's exactly what he said.
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I think TV appreciates that this is a containment exercise. The point I believe he is trying to make is a good one, namely that there must be a better plan to be implemented at some time in the future. We have too much form for reactive action and if we are ever to be worthy of our history we must become proactive again.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
I did read the last line. I,m talking about now, not some unknown time in the future. Does TV know we're being taken over in the next few weeks. A takeover could take months, well into next season. So until that happens we ain't gonna sign top quality players.
That's exactly what he said.
So until were taken over and all the top quality players start rolling in, who do you suggest we sign who is better and would improve the team. Or do we do nothing and go into next season with the current playing staff in the hope we get taken over.
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He's played for Arsenal, Milan, Everton, Valencia and now Villa. Not bad teams.
2 league appearances for Everton, 5 for Valencia, 14 for Milan. His injury record worries me, especially considering how our luck is with them.
Charlie needs company and they will both be able to speak french , I think .
Charlie don't surf
And you know that ain't no good
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But TV wasn't complaining about this signing.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
I did read the last line. I,m talking about now, not some unknown time in the future. Does TV know we're being taken over in the next few weeks. A takeover could take months, well into next season. So until that happens we ain't gonna sign top quality players.
That's exactly what he said.
So until were taken over and all the top quality players start rolling in, who do you suggest we sign who is better and would improve the team. Or do we do nothing and go into next season with the current playing staff in the hope we get taken over.
I'm happy enough with Senderos, where have I said that i'm not?
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
Oh yeh, let's go and sign 4 or 5 top quality players, like who!!. Tel you what lets go for that geezer from Bayern at centre back, why not go for Messi and while were at it let's sign fucking Ronaldo as well. Get real were are not a club that can attract top quality players. We need more experience in defence and that's what Senderos will bring. For Christ sake give the guy a chance.
I think you need to read TV's post again, especially the last line.
I did read the last line. I,m talking about now, not some unknown time in the future. Does TV know we're being taken over in the next few weeks. A takeover could take months, well into next season. So until that happens we ain't gonna sign top quality players.
That's exactly what he said.
So until were taken over and all the top quality players start rolling in, who do you suggest we sign who is better and would improve the team. Or do we do nothing and go into next season with the current playing staff in the hope we get taken over.
Of all the people you want to have a go at for not giving someone a chance I'm probably the last one. You have taken several swings at this and missed every time.
All I have said is that while the arrival of Senderos doesn't fill me with endless joy, I appreciate that he is coming in mainly as a back up, given that most would agree Okore and Vlaar to be the starting CB pairing. And until such time we get taken over we likely won't see the types of player we really need to propel us forward. The fact remains however, we need 4 or 5 quality additions if we want to have any level of success next season.
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But TV wasn't complaining about this signing.
Are you sure?
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I am happy with Senderos. He will do a job for us of that I have no doubt. Criticize other posters and their opinions by all means but not for things they have not said.
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But TV wasn't complaining about this signing.
Are you sure?
Yes. Mainly because he hasn't complained about anything. Ever.
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But TV wasn't complaining about this signing.
Are you sure?
Yes. Mainly because he hasn't complained about anything. Ever.
Ok I concede. TV was not complaining he was just not "overjoyed" at the signing. Let's hope for the sake of the club Senderos can bring a little joy to us all.
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
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As I see it, he's experienced, he's been signed as back up and with our luck with injuries he'll probably be needed. Better him than a kid from the Sutton Sunday League...or the Chesterfield Midweek Alliance Prem...
Welcome Phillipe - I hope you are brilliant for us!
UTV!
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But TV wasn't complaining about this signing.
Are you sure?
Yes. Mainly because he hasn't complained about anything. Ever.
Nathan Baker is gash. Myth dispelled
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I may well have a go at spelling his name correctly too...
(one L two Ps...one L two Ps...)
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Hopefully if we need him to play he can show some of the form from early in his career. I'm sure he's only back up which we really need. I'm not convinced Ron is good enough for anyone in the top half. I like him, he's a character but I think mid table and below is his level. He makes quite a few mistakes, which might be exaggerated in our team I admit, but good enough for Man Utd, I'm not so sure.
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In a sense I hope yanited do sign vlaar . A pairing of Vlaar & Smalling will guarantee another year of comedy gold at Old Trafford.
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In a sense I hope yanited do sign vlaar . A pairing of Vlaar & Smalling will guarantee another year of comedy gold at Old Trafford.
Yeah, yippee.
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Hmm, just like the comedy gold we will still be treated to with rampant Roy on the side and slippery Senderos on the park. God, please let me be wrong!!
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
I'm 100% certain that we will never line up with that formation. Ł100 to the charity of your choice if we do.
And after I've done that I'll probably slit my wrists at the type of football that we're aiming for with Senderos and Baker as full-backs.
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
I'm 100% certain that we will never line up with that formation. Ł100 to the charity of your choice if we do.
And after I've done that I'll probably slit my wrists at the type of football that we're aiming for with Senderos and Baker as full-backs.
Bliley, they would be better at rugby.
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No big enough. Have you seen the size of rugby players these days?
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
I'm 100% certain that we will never line up with that formation. Ł100 to the charity of your choice if we do.
And after I've done that I'll probably slit my wrists at the type of football that we're aiming for with Senderos and Baker as full-backs.
God if we ever played that back four I think I'd give up. Even MON wouldn't put out that side!
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
I'm 100% certain that we will never line up with that formation. Ł100 to the charity of your choice if we do.
And after I've done that I'll probably slit my wrists at the type of football that we're aiming for with Senderos and Baker as full-backs.
I agree 100%.
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
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How about Okore Vlaar Senderos New left back, I can see Okore being transformed into a right back, good on the ball, fast and relatively short for a centre half (6ft), he has the build and speed of Micah Richards and Freddy Bouma (well he's quicker than Bouma) and as we have to sign a new left back it would save us shelling out for a new right back too, as Lowton and Bacuna are too lightweight for me there.
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Is that lyrics to your new song, Bob?
Well that might work but I prefer Senderos to be backup to Okore or Vlaar.
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He can play Full back too so versatile . When we need physicality and height at the back we may line up
Senderos Vlaar Clark Baker
I'm 100% certain that we will never line up with that formation. Ł100 to the charity of your choice if we do.
And after I've done that I'll probably slit my wrists at the type of football that we're aiming for with Senderos and Baker as full-backs.
I will take that with same amount to charity of your choice if they don't however 2 conditions. It counts if the 4 are on pitch at the same time at any stage and if one of those leaves the club before the season starts bet is void?
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Kin 'ell.
Every player that comes here should start with a clean sheet, forget their history. Even Harewood.
We've had many shocks down the years, good and bad.
Who would have thought Curcic, Collymore, N'Zogbia, Ireland, Balaban etc would have been such a disaster?
Who would have predicted the ridiculous lack of football talent vs the money we paid, Alan Thompson, Steve Watson, Steve Sidwell etc
Who would have thought Platt, McGrath would have been world class?
Who would have thought Delaney, Southgate, Laursen, Mellberg etc would have been as good as they were?
Someone mentioned Leonardsen earlier. In his brief spell he did better than most people thought.
Always judge after they've played and had a chance.
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if we are judging Senderos on playing for a champions league side then he's not good enough,
but he's coming to Villa,
perennial relegation battlers over the last 3/4 years, surely he's going to be good enough for us,
I don't believe he is coming as a back up either I think he will be challenging for a first team place from the off, and with the present competition we could be seeing quite a lot of him next season
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I can't decide whether Sanderos sounds liike a magician or a bottle of toilet cleaner, so I am reserving judgement.
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I can't decide whether Sanderos sounds liike a magician or a bottle of toilet cleaner, so I am reserving judgement.
He sounds like Big Ron trying and failing to pronounce the surname of his star striker.
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Kin 'ell.
Every player that comes here should start with a clean sheet, forget their history. Even Harewood.
We've had many shocks down the years, good and bad.
Who would have thought Curcic, Collymore, N'Zogbia, Ireland, Balaban etc would have been such a disaster?
Who would have predicted the ridiculous lack of football talent vs the money we paid, Alan Thompson, Steve Watson, Steve Sidwell etc
Who would have thought Platt, McGrath would have been world class?
Who would have thought Delaney, Southgate, Laursen, Mellberg etc would have been as good as they were?
Someone mentioned Leonardsen earlier. In his brief spell he did better than most people thought.
Always judge after they've played and had a chance.
"always judge after they've played and had a chance"
Bang on, my sentiments entirely.
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If this is the bright future were fucked
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I don't agree with automatically writing players off, but I have to say, I also don't agree with them "don't pre-judge them, just judge them on what they do for us, forget their history" line.
Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
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if we are judging Senderos on playing for a champions league side then he's not good enough,
but he's coming to Villa,
perennial relegation battlers over the last 3/4 years, surely he's going to be good enough for us,
I don't believe he is coming as a back up either I think he will be challenging for a first team place from the off, and with the present competition we could be seeing quite a lot of him next season
Wasn't for Fulham.
I rate this as the same sort of level as Zat Knight really. Someone who looked majorly error prone at his last club.
Now Knight was lucky for a bit he played alongside someone as imperious as Laursen which covered his flaws which soon became apparent once Laursen got injured.
Just hope Ron stays and Okore stays fit so he'll only play the odd game as backup which I can live with.
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Nearly 100 appearances for Arsenal
Over 50 caps for a country ranked 6th in the world
Must be really shit
And we paid how much???
Fuck me I hate everything about our club
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Nearly 100 appearances for Arsenal
Over 50 caps for a country ranked 6th in the world
Statistics don't really mean a lot though. You could also say "140 league starts in 13 years", for example, and wonder about his injury record, or question whether Switzerland really are the 6th best team in the world.
If people are underwhelmed, it is because they don't rate him as a player, and - although it matters not now, because he has signed - they're judging him on what they've seen.
It doesn't mean they hate the club or they're mental or anything, it means they just disagree with you.
Football is largely subjective. It doesn't matter what team you're talking about, or what player, you'll always get a range of opinions from fans when their club makes a signing. It's hardly anything dramatic or new.
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Nearly 100 appearances for Arsenal
Over 50 caps for a country ranked 6th in the world
Must be really shit
And we paid how much???
Fuck me I hate everything about our club
Djemba Djemba had a decent amount of caps for Cameroon, had won the French league with Nantes and had decent champions league experience...and he was shite. As was his twin.
I file this Senderos signing in that category. I don't expect him to be anything other than poor when he plays because that's how he's been for most of his career. At least it's only two years and he's not on some sort of Given pension contract.
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Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
They don't...?
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Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
They don't...?
Well, judging by the way they run the club, they're clearly off their faces on mindbending drugs, anyway, so they're hard to compare against.
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Nearly 100 appearances for Arsenal
Over 50 caps for a country ranked 6th in the world
It doesn't mean they hate the club or they're mental or anything, it means they just disagree with you.
Football is largely subjective. It doesn't matter what team you're talking about, or what player, you'll always get a range of opinions from fans when their club makes a signing. It's hardly anything dramatic or new.
A pedant writes:
Football isn't largely subjective, it's entirely objective. It's about which team scores the most goals in each game over the course of a competition.
The opinions, prejudices and predictions of those who are afflicted to care about it are largely subjective, and liable to change based on the flimsiest of variables.
Yours,
A Pedant
Name and address supplied.
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The world is full of players that flatter to deceive but there are equally players where expectation is low but there performances are well in excess of expectation. Given senderos' pedigree I'm expecting him to be better than what we have. And given our position as a football club I believe he's about as good as we can expect.
Maybe just maybe he could be judge by his performances kn the pitch before ge is condemned as a load of fertiliser
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How the fuck are Switzerland given cushy draws and seeded all the time when 90% of their players, including our Pip, are gubbins?
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How do you get over 50 caps by being shit
There is load of shit players that have won caps, carlton palmer geoff thomas etc but they are soon fucked off after just a handful of appearances but 50 caos you must have something about you
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It's all very well saying don't pre-judge but we are talking about a player who was not needed by a team that got relegated and conceded more than any other team as he was loaned out in January.
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To be fair though, Fulham were in 16th start of January, they really tailspun after they had given him his vacation.
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He will be an upgrade on Clark and Baker ,Lambert's first signing a centre back says it all really.
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I'd be way more concerned if Lambert didn't sign another Centre back, at least we know that he knows he was talking shit throughout the season when talking up Baker and Clark.
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I don't agree with automatically writing players off, but I have to say, I also don't agree with them "don't pre-judge them, just judge them on what they do for us, forget their history" line.
Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
Why? Because, lets face it, we have no say so in who we buy. Thats up to the management team. It's all very well a few of us huffing and puffing when players are first mentioned but once they're here they should get our full support, and as i said before we could be pleasantly suprised by a player we think might not be up to it.
I'm not saying the management team should ignore players history, but that's a total different kettle of fish to us supporters. If the management think they're up to it we have to accept it.
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If my roof is leaking and I can't afford to fix it, I'll at least buy a bucket.
And something about trawlers and seagulls.
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If my roof is leaking and I can't afford to fix it, I'll at least buy a bucket.
And something about trawlers and seagulls.
Or get a free bucket that was once a good bucket but might be developing a few minor cracks. :-)
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If my roof is leaking and I can't afford to fix it, I'll at least buy a bucket.
And something about trawlers and seagulls.
I think were dealing with dear Liza for our buckets
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It would have been interesting had we had these forums around 1980.
Could you imagine the uproar at:
Replacing Andy Gray with a journey man centre forward.
Replacing John Gidman with a winger from Chelsea and turning him into a full back
Ken McNaughts first season.
Des Bremner? From Hibernian?
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It would have been interesting had we had these forums around 1980.
Could you imagine the uproar at:
Replacing Andy Gray with a journey man centre forward.
Replacing John Gidman with a winger from Chelsea and turning him into a full back
Ken McNaughts first season.
Des Bremner? From Hibernian?
The Andy Gray one is funny, I suppose the equivalent now would be selling Benteke and replacing him with say Ricky Lambert.
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As long as he is not another 'Butcher's dog'!
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How do you get over 50 caps by being shit
There is load of shit players that have won caps, carlton palmer geoff thomas etc but they are soon fucked off after just a handful of appearances but 50 caos you must have something about you
Heskey had over 60 caps for a country with better quality players than Switzerland, didn't stop people calling him shit. Hutton has 40 and ditto.
Switzerland aren't much cop, they had a peachy draw to qualify for the world cup. And 2-0 was still their best win, in a group that included Albania and Cyprus. 6th best team in the world indeed.
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I`ll give anybody a fair crack of the whip (Even Mcleish when he defected), but i think this is the level of signing we can expect from now on.
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I don't think Senderos will be that bad. He's better than Baker.
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You are better than Baker, Monty.
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And yet Lambert keeps selecting him over me. Bloody favouritism.
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You are better than Baker, Monty.
Harry Redknapp's dog's mother is better than Baker
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I do hope Nathan doesn't read this forum
It won't do much for his self esteem
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It would have been interesting had we had these forums around 1980.
Could you imagine the uproar at:
Replacing Andy Gray with a journey man centre forward.
Replacing John Gidman with a winger from Chelsea and turning him into a full back
Ken McNaughts first season.
Des Bremner? From Hibernian?
The Andy Gray one is funny, I suppose the equivalent now would be selling Benteke and replacing him with say Ricky Lambert.
The Andy Gray one is funny because every time we make a signing which divides opinion like this, you can guarantee someone will come out and say "yeah, i remember when we signed Peter Withe, a journeyman centre forward, AND LOOK HOW THAT TURNED OUT!" I believe the last time we heard that line was when Grant Holt came.
Yes, sometimes signings turn out better than expected, but more often than not, poor players remain poor players. The fact people point at an example from 35 years ago says it all, really.
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I do hope Nathan doesn't read this forum
It won't do much for his self esteem
I've often wondered if players read this and other places.
I am pretty sure if i was a player, I wouldn't be able to resist.
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It's difficult to think of a more unexcting signing, but as said before he's probably lower mid-table Premiership quality and better than Baker and Clark. Possibly better than Hangeland, whose form has dipped dramatically the last few months, although I'm not sure.
Vlaar and Senderos sounds like a reasonable defensive pairing, but both are prone to injuries, so I'm not sure if it is as solid as one woud wish.
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I don't agree with automatically writing players off, but I have to say, I also don't agree with them "don't pre-judge them, just judge them on what they do for us, forget their history" line.
Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
Agree with this post. It's partly why I don't rate Kozak and why I was strongly against the idea of Grant Holt joining us.
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At least we know Senderos is shit so there is no expectation. With the likes of El Ahmedi and Tonev I hoped they would turn out to be decent but ended up disappointed.
I think we can forget about signing anyone good until we get taken over.
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I don't agree with automatically writing players off, but I have to say, I also don't agree with them "don't pre-judge them, just judge them on what they do for us, forget their history" line.
Are we supposed to totally ignore their careers so far in judging / evaluating players? Why?
It's just as well the people buying them for us don't do that.
Agree with this post. It's partly why I don't rate Kozak and why I was strongly against the idea of Grant Holt joining us.
I even gave Grant Holt the benefit of the doubt before he'd played but i must admit it didn't take me too long to write him off. Probably 2 subs appearances of his onfield buffoonery was enough for me to make my mind up. Maybe i'm guily of dismissing players too early into their career but NZogbia's total lack of interest early on and Tonev's excessive shitness had me writing those off after a couple of games also. But at least they'd kicked a ball for us !! :-)
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Weirdly I thought Holt did quite well for us at first. Held the ball and kept possession better than most of the other players.
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I do hope Nathan doesn't read this forum
It won't do much for his self esteem
I've often wondered if players read this and other places.
I am pretty sure if i was a player, I wouldn't be able to resist.
I'm also pretty sure most if not all of them have a look
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Welcome and good luck Philippe.
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How good is Senderos at hoofing the ball from the ball?
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Championship standard player at best. Was a real flop at Arsenal, and not much better at Fulham.
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But he's only ever played at a level above the Championship.
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At least we know Senderos is shit so there is no expectation. With the likes of El Ahmedi and Tonev I hoped they would turn out to be decent but ended up disappointed.
I think we can forget about signing anyone good until we get taken over.
The odd thing with Tonev is that he can run at defenders at great pace and take the ball with him. This is actually a priceless asset that makes almost all defenders brick it. The problem comes with what happens next which should be the easy bit. Inevitable it's a member of the oppostion taking a goal kick or even throw in. Absolutely maddening.
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There's a player somewhere in there with Tonev. Not sure we'll ever see it at Villa, unfortunately, but the potential is there.
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Im not expecting anything at all from Senderos and thats probably what I will get. On the question of whether footballers read the forums. About two years ago I was introduced to young Nathan Redmond and this question came up. He said 'Of course we do. Its nice to read someone praising you but if you are getting stick from your own supporters it plays on your mind a bit!'
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Signing Senderos is like signing Zak Knight all over again.
Vlar is off to Man U
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Think it's Zat Knight you mean.
Who says Vlaar is going to Man Utd?
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Think it's Zat Knight you mean.
Who says Vlaar is going to Man Utd?
John2710
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Think it's Zat Knight you mean.
Who says Vlaar is going to Man Utd?
John2710
It's in the Bible?!
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Signing Senderos is like signing Zak Knight all over again.
Vlar is off to Man U
It's not really though is it?
Knight was a consistantly mediocre PL defender, Senderos is a formally pretty good PL defender that's not been so good in recent times. Zat Knight was always going to be mediocre but Senderos could go either way, fresh start and all that. And anyway, Knight was definately better than Clark and miles better than Baker.
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With Zat though he actually did ok for us when he was called upon. He was much better than I ever expected him to be.
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If Senderos is the new Knight, I'd happily take that on a free. Zat wasn't that bad, in fact he was probably better than most people though he was going to be in the end. A few howlers here and there, a couple of important goals, but generally quite solid, especially when able to play alongside Laursen. Knight was better than Collins, Clark and Baker for starters.
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The return of Okore and the arrival of Senderos should keep the likes of Baker and Clark away from the first 11. Works for me.
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With Zat though he actually did ok for us when he was called upon. He was much better than I ever expected him to be.
Only when Laursen was in there alongside him.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
That is an insult to Collins TBF!
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
Are you questioning them as a partnership if so fine, but you do rate Vlaar surely? Because he is class.
One other thing if we did sign Senderos as a third or fourth choice center half then what is the point? We need ideally a good and experienced PL center back to go straight into the team and partner Vlaar. I assume than Vlaar and Senderos will be our new pairing at the back with Clark and Barker playing bit part roles.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
Are you questioning them as a partnership if so fine, but you do rate Vlaar surely? Because he is class.
One other thing if we did sign Senderos as a third or fourth choice center half then what is the point? We need ideally a good and experienced PL center back to go straight into the team and partner Vlaar. I assume than Vlaar and Senderos will be our new pairing at the back with Clark and Barker playing bit part roles.
What about Okore. Vlaar and Jores with Senderos and Clark as back up, and Baker taking a short term loan to a decent Championship club would get my vote.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
Are you questioning them as a partnership if so fine, but you do rate Vlaar surely? Because he is class.
One other thing if we did sign Senderos as a third or fourth choice center half then what is the point? We need ideally a good and experienced PL center back to go straight into the team and partner Vlaar. I assume than Vlaar and Senderos will be our new pairing at the back with Clark and Barker playing bit part roles.
What about Okore. Vlaar and Jores with Senderos and Clark as back up, and Baker taking a short term loan to a decent Championship club would get my vote.
The Baker loan part makes sense. Not sure many fancy Okore, but figures cross he looks better in his second season. I don't want Senderos, but am just assuming than Lambert is signing him because of his experience which we need more in the team than on the bench, so I expect him start games.
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Ah, the HarewoodHeskey defence.
We could, and should have signed better than them. I can't see any top-class defender wanting to be back-up to Okore and Vlaar.
Are you questioning them as a partnership if so fine, but you do rate Vlaar surely? Because he is class.
One other thing if we did sign Senderos as a third or fourth choice center half then what is the point? We need ideally a good and experienced PL center back to go straight into the team and partner Vlaar. I assume than Vlaar and Senderos will be our new pairing at the back with Clark and Barker playing bit part roles.
What about Okore. Vlaar and Jores with Senderos and Clark as back up, and Baker taking a short term loan to a decent Championship club would get my vote.
The Baker loan part makes sense. Not sure many fancy Okore, but figures cross he looks better in his second season. I don't want Senderos, but am just assuming than Lambert is signing him because of his experience which we need more in the team than on the bench, so I expect him start games.
Okore only played 3 games before his bad injury. Why do you say you are not sure many fancy him? Based on what?
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My bad I thought he played a bit more than that, also seem to get the impression than most on him didn't like the look of him, but will back off on that one :-X Vlaar and Okore it is.
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Senderos will get plenty of games next season. Ron as ever will have a mid winter xmas break so probably won't make 30 appearences and with the bad injury Okore has had it will be wise to not overplay him so can see him and Senderos being rotated.
I'm surprised Clark is getting so much flak, I thought he made improvement at CB last season when he played. Baker deserves all the flak he gets, so many horrible performances after xmas last year.
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Okore and Vlaar 1st choice, with Senderos ready to come in to the team should we see a return to our shambolic defending ways, Clark as 4th choice and Baker to become a postman would be the way I see it.
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Senderos will get plenty of games next season. Ron as ever will have a mid winter xmas break so probably won't make 30 appearences and with the bad injury Okore has had it will be wise to not overplay him so can see him and Senderos being rotated.
I'm surprised Clark is getting so much flak, I thought he made improvement at CB last season when he played. Baker deserves all the flak he gets, so many horrible performances after xmas last year.
I thought Clark was doing well early season when he was getting a solid run in the side. It was when he was flitting in and out the side more in the second half of the season (when inexplicably, Baker was getting the nod first) that he struggled to keep it up. Plus, as the whole backline generally does when Vlaar is out, he and everyone else looked shambolic.
Then of course those last 2 months were just absolute shite from everyone at the back.
Clark will be alright as a fourth choice, though it seems to me that he may be behind Baker in the pecking order. We'll see, but if Clark gets sold on this summer I'd not be surprised. He'll have takers as well.
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For Clark C. see Ridgewell L.
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Okore and Vlaar 1st choice, with Senderos ready to come in to the team should we see a return to our shambolic defending ways, Clark as 4th choice and Baker to become a postman would be the way I see it.
I us as going with the 5-3-2 defending/3-5-2 attacking formation as our first choice, giving us Okore, Vlaar, and Senderos starting with Clark and Baker as strong defensive back-up. If we can get decent attacking wing-backs and a solid holding midfielder we've got a genuinely good side.
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At no point have I ever seen Lambert play 3-5-2. It's always been a flat back 5.
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One name ( imo a very important one ) missing is that of Janoi Donacien . At 20 years old and with a history of impressive appearances for the Reserves / Under 18s / Youth Team behind him , the time for his introduction into the First Team fold is surely at hand .
His contract , like that of Callum Robinson , is up at the end of this Month and he will likely want assurances re his future at the Villa before signing a new one .
Re Baker , agreed he is not that great but his ( one ? ) redeeming feature is that he is tall with good heading ability , so given our weakness to defend the high ball in recent seasons it would seem foolish to junk him before we get a Defender of equal stature .
Although having written that I just discovered that Senderos is 6ft 4 ins ( 82kg...big lad ! ) , thus somewhat weakening Baker my proposal , getting coat time I think ...............Godzvilla !
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Donacien should've been given a chance last season but Lambert doesn't seem to have faith in the young guys from the academy. Hope he gets a game next season, another year of watching Baker is a terrifying thought.
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Okore and Vlaar 1st choice, with Senderos ready to come in to the team should we see a return to our shambolic defending ways, Clark as 4th choice and Baker to become a postman would be the way I see it.
I us as going with the 5-3-2 defending/3-5-2 attacking formation as our first choice, giving us Okore, Vlaar, and Senderos starting with Clark and Baker as strong defensive back-up. If we can get decent attacking wing-backs and a solid holding midfielder we've got a genuinely good side.
I dread seeing that. It would be 5 at the back, 2 defensive midfielders in Westwood and KEA a massive gap to the forwards and Delph running around thinking '' I am not signing a new contract''.
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One name ( imo a very important one ) missing is that of Janoi Donacien . At 20 years old and with a history of impressive appearances for the Reserves / Under 18s / Youth Team behind him , the time for his introduction into the First Team fold is surely at hand .
His contract , like that of Callum Robinson , is up at the end of this Month and he will likely want assurances re his future at the Villa before signing a new one .
Re Baker , agreed he is not that great but his ( one ? ) redeeming feature is that he is tall with good heading ability , so given our weakness to defend the high ball in recent seasons it would seem foolish to junk him before we get a Defender of equal stature .
Although having written that I just discovered that Senderos is 6ft 4 ins ( 82kg...big lad ! ) , thus somewhat weakening Baker my proposal , getting coat time I think ...............Godzvilla !
I don't think huge centerbacks are as big a necessity as they were 5-10 years ago. The style in the league is changing. Most of the teams aspire to keep the ball on the deck and prefer forwards with a bit more mobility. Of course there's still Stoke, Palace and West Ham hitting cloud breaking long balls to gargantuan brick houses but they're becoming the exception, not the rule.
Long term future- a CH like Donacian who has a turn of pace, will be better for us than an immobile lump like Baker, who despite his height isn't actually brilliant in the air. It's his best attribute but he's still average in that regard. I'd rather have a smaller guy who's timing and positioning is better. McGrath wasn't 6ft4 but his aeriel ability was top notch.
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At no point have I ever seen Lambert play 3-5-2. It's always been a flat back 5.
last time Herd had a run in the team he was right-side of a back 3. We got belted by someone. Wigan?
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Donacien should've been given a chance last season but Lambert doesn't seem to have faith in the young guys from the academy. Hope he gets a game next season, another year of watching Baker is a terrifying thought.
Against Sheff Utd. Baker pulled up in the warm up. Donacien was sub but the clueless three decided Lowton was a better bet at CB.
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Maybe they're not as good as some are saying that they are.
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I don't think Senderos is necessarily a bad signing in our current position but I keep having a vision of him and Nathan Baker as a central defensive partnership.
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IMO Donacien should be given some game time with the first team during pre-season and then loaned out to a Championship Club for the whole of next season. We've seen the perils of trying to blood young defenders onto a poor side and should aim to avoid doing this again.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
That is an insult to Collins TBF!
Collins was and is shit.
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With Zat though he actually did ok for us when he was called upon. He was much better than I ever expected him to be.
Only when Laursen was in there alongside him.
It was still a nice surprise, he was better than I thought he would be. I'm sure even Laursen wouldn't have made Baker look any better.
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With Zat though he actually did ok for us when he was called upon. He was much better than I ever expected him to be.
Only when Laursen was in there alongside him.
It was still a nice surprise, he was better than I thought he would be. I'm sure even Laursen wouldn't have made Baker look any better.
I felt the same about Knight, and he's also a member of that elite club, Players That Leave Villa For More Than We've Payed For Them.
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With Zat though he actually did ok for us when he was called upon. He was much better than I ever expected him to be.
Only when Laursen was in there alongside him.
It was still a nice surprise, he was better than I thought he would be. I'm sure even Laursen wouldn't have made Baker look any better.
I felt the same about Knight, and he's also a member of that elite club, Players That Leave Villa For More Than We've Payed For Them.
I know there are not many in the last 10 years who have made a profit but I didn't realise Zat did too.
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Not much, about 500k on transfer fee but it's still something.
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Whether he signs or not won't make a difference. It's a free and a squad player. Like I said it's along the lines of a James Collins; i.e nothing special. What we need urgently is 4 or 5 top starting quality players and that won't happen until the sale is complete.
That is an insult to Collins TBF!
Collins was and is shit.
Only on one of his better days
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Senderos will get plenty of games next season. Ron as ever will have a mid winter xmas break so probably won't make 30 appearences and with the bad injury Okore has had it will be wise to not overplay him so can see him and Senderos being rotated.
I'm surprised Clark is getting so much flak, I thought he made improvement at CB last season when he played. Baker deserves all the flak he gets, so many horrible performances after xmas last year.
No I like Clark also, and think he may have a decent future.
People have short memories on Collins. He actually did very well for us, and in fact was better than Dunne who was seen as the real steal at the time.
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Senderos will get plenty of games next season. Ron as ever will have a mid winter xmas break so probably won't make 30 appearences and with the bad injury Okore has had it will be wise to not overplay him so can see him and Senderos being rotated.
I'm surprised Clark is getting so much flak, I thought he made improvement at CB last season when he played. Baker deserves all the flak he gets, so many horrible performances after xmas last year.
No I like Clark also, and think he may have a decent future.
People have short memories on Collins. He actually did very well for us, and in fact was better than Dunne who was seen as the real steal at the time.
Collins and Dunne did very well for us for one season.
The rest of the time, they were an absolute waste of space.
You're right, though, they weren't totally shite. The problem is whether one good season and two or three abysmal ones from a player is acceptable. Not for me, I'd say it reflects pretty poorly on Collins.
re Knight, I am prepared to admit he wasn't quite as awful as I thought he would be, but I still think he was a very poor player.
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Knight is a championship level player, but then O'Neill was one who sometimes worked better with those kind of players. And it was a credit to him that many of the players he signed were of a similar irk but yet he still got the best out of him. Knight actually did well for us, then again it is gutting to look back than we lost Cahill.
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I rate Vlaar higher than Collins I have to say, much better with the ball with his feet.
He just plays with much weaker defenders alongside him.
It wasn't like we had great defensive records in 10/11 and 11/12 anyway.
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Vlaar is undoubtedly a better player than Collins. Much better technically (see his goals v Wigan and Sunderland for proof) and doesn;t have the defensive howlers in him that Collins did/does.
That said, I did quite like Collins, who I regard as a much better version of the type of Centre-back Nathan Baker should be.
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Vlaar is undoubtedly a better player than Collins. Much better technically (see his goals v Wigan and Sunderland for proof) and doesn;t have the defensive howlers in him that Collins did/does.
That said, I did quite like Collins, who I regard as a much better version of the type of Centre-back Nathan Baker should be.
Yes. Controlled aggression.
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Cole is a good signing for Senderos. We can stop criticising him now.
I initially misspelled Senderos for Senderoa. Can we get the latter one in?
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Senderos may become our number one CB if Vlaar continues to have a good world cup and one of the bigger clubs come calling.
Couldn't blame Ron if the opportunity arose.
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I've no doubt he has been signed to permit Vlar to go to United.
I genuinely fear for our defence next season.
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I've no doubt he has been signed to permit Vlar to go to United.
I wouldn't say anything as certain as that, but I'd be lying if i said the same hadn't occurred to me.
Not so much that Vlaar will go to Man United (I think they can get better players), but that he's going to be sold. See also, Delph.
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I've no doubt he has been signed to permit Vlar to go to United.
I genuinely fear for our defence next season.
Don't buy that one. Lambert has decided that what we have isn't good enough and that Vlaar needs another experience player along side him, sadly the one he has chosen isn't very good. Not saying Vlaar won't go, but the Utd link just smarks of lazy reporting.
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Apparently Man U are buying Vermaelen so Vlaar might not be off to them after all.
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I've no doubt he has been signed to permit Vlar to go to United.
I genuinely fear for our defence next season.
Don't buy that one. Lambert has decided that what we have isn't good enough and that Vlaar needs another experience player along side him, sadly the one he has chosen isn't very good. Not saying Vlaar won't go, but the Utd link just smarks of lazy reporting.
Have any actual reporters come up with the Vlaar to Utd thing? The only people I've heard say it are Villa fans
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Apparently Man U are buying Vermaelen so Vlaar might not be off to them after all.
They might want more than 2 new defenders, they've lost Ferdinand and Vidic, whilst Jones, Smalling and a Evans are probably not good enough first choices for a team that wants to win the title.
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I've no doubt he has been signed to permit Vlar to go to United.
I genuinely fear for our defence next season.
Don't buy that one. Lambert has decided that what we have isn't good enough and that Vlaar needs another experience player along side him, sadly the one he has chosen isn't very good. Not saying Vlaar won't go, but the Utd link just smarks of lazy reporting.
Have any actual reporters come up with the Vlaar to Utd thing? The only people I've heard say it are Villa fans
Yes. The reporters were first on the case. A simple search on Google News or News Now makes this clear, even if you discount the blogs.
It goes without saying that this does make it true.
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He's just come on for the Swiss vs France and is looking every bit as flaky as I remember him
EDIT - and they've conceded three since his arrival
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
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He won't fit in at the Villa. He know hows to pass to a midfielder in the same colour shirt. Less of that please down B6!
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
No but they look a collective rabble. If that's the phrase for a gathering of bad defenders.
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
No but they look a collective rabble. If that's the phrase for a gathering of bad defenders.
I'd prefer 'a Baker'.
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
No but they look a collective rabble. If that's the phrase for a gathering of bad defenders.
So you agree non of the goals are his fault and yet every post you are making is to slate him?
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
No but they look a collective rabble. If that's the phrase for a gathering of bad defenders.
I'd prefer 'a Baker'.
At least Bakes would take a few of the fuckers out.
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From the original expression "a Baker's dozen" meaning 13 bad defenders
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Although not at fault for any of the goals at all.
No but they look a collective rabble. If that's the phrase for a gathering of bad defenders.
So you agree non of the goals are his fault and yet every post you are making is to slate him?
Chill Shin. It's just gallows humour I guess. It's my way of getting through the last 4 years and counting
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He's actually doing some tidy passing. We'll soon coach that nonsense out of him.
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Vlaar is undoubtedly a better player than Collins. Much better technically (see his goals v Wigan and Sunderland for proof) and doesn;t have the defensive howlers in him that Collins did/does.
That said, I did quite like Collins, who I regard as a much better version of the type of Centre-back Nathan Baker should be.
Yes. Controlled aggression.
I'd only recently erased Collins from memory. The nightmares had stopped and the visits to the psychiatrist had been cut down to once a week. You lot have just set me back 2 years and i'll be sending you the fucking bill.
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How are big Phil's hoofs up the pitch?
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He looked more like Phillip Sender-toss there didn't he?
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How are big Phil's hoofs up the pitch?
Non-existent if that mis-kick allowing Benzena to scire us anything to go by.
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Masterclass in defending from our new acquisition tonight........gulp
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HE'S MADE A MISTAKE!!!
HE MUST BE THE WORST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF VILLA - AND I KNOW THAT BEFORE HE'S EVEN PLAYED FOR US!!!
I LOVE NOT GIVING PEOPLE CHANCES AND BEING RIGHT!
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Paul McGrath scored a fair few own goals when he was with us, must mean he was shit as he made mistakes. It happens to every player.
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In the majority of cases Senderos would pribably have got away with that mistake he just happens to be playing some of the best in the world who are in better form than most.
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I could give you a long list of players who should nver have been allowed across the threshold of Bodymoor Heath and hes right up there with the worst of them.
Its not about not giving players a chance . At 28 he has had a long career and has been a serial underperformer.
Tonight he is proving what many of us already know
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Haven't seen the goals but the Beeb slating him, including Pat Nevin, saying this is the sort of shit Villa fans should expect to see next season.
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He made 1 mistake, it was already 3-0. Shows how little some know and how much they want to stick the boot in. If he is making those mistakes every week for us then i'll give him stick, against a French side on fire i'm not bothered.
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sounds about right bring on the shiten
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This is why relegated Fulham binned him off midway through their relegation season. Woeful signing to be brutally honest.
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I will slag him off when he fucks up for Villa.
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I will slag him off when he fucks up for Villa.
See you 10 mins into the Stoke match thread then ;)
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
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Let me think Pat Nevins opinion or some eternal optimists on here......who are making comparisons with Paul McGrath???
Yes it does make we wonder what they actually understand about football.
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
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Let me think Pat Nevins opinion or some eternal optimists on here......who are making comparisons with Paul McGrath???
Yes it does make we wonder what they actually understand about football.
I know, it's shocking, some people actually want to see the guy kick a ball in anger for us before they slag him off. Totally unreasonable!
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Let me think Pat Nevins opinion or some eternal optimists on here......who are making comparisons with Paul McGrath???
Yes it does make we wonder what they actually understand about football.
It wasn't a comparison. Which kinds of proves my point. I was making the point that McGrath made mistakes, it happens to every player, or do you disagree?
Senderos made one mistake in the game, hardly the end of the world and excuse to slate him is it?
Or maybe we should write him off now and not even give him a chance in a Villa shirt, is that what we should do?
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's not my first choice and I was hardly popping open the champers when he signed, but I will judge him on what he does in a Villa shirt. Surely that's the best thing to do?
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's not my first choice and I was hardly popping open the champers when he signed, but I will judge him on what he does in a Villa shirt. Surely that's the best thing to do?
\I'm with you PWS, let's see what happens when he's on the pitch and wearing the shirt. He's our player now if you like it or not. Let's give him a chance.
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's not my first choice and I was hardly popping open the champers when he signed, but I will judge him on what he does in a Villa shirt. Surely that's the best thing to do?
Yes. But this is an open forum for debate isn't it ? I think he's a horrendous signing as is Joe Cole. I may be proved wrong but I doubt it very much .
Equally before he kicks a ball people can say he's a great signing or good or solid or average or the best we can expect.
That's the whole point of having forums like this isn't it ?
All views are welcomed and open to debate.
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's played at premier league or equivalent level for his entire career, of course he's premier league level, not top 6 but that's just not our market. I couldn't care less about last season at Fulham, that whole club was rotten last year, no one came out of it looking good, and they had people with much bigger reputations.
Lets see how he gets on next year, and how we use him, before slating him as one of our worst signings ever.
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A Villa squad player - not even a first teamer, a squad player - made a mistake in a World Cup finals game. How low....etc.
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not even a first teamer, a squad player
You hope.
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A Villa squad player - not even a first teamer, a squad player - made a mistake in a World Cup finals game. How low....etc.
I agree with you in that there's no point in going over the top, but I wouldn't be so sure about him being a squad player or not a first teamer just yet. Not until we see what we're left with by the time the season starts.
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This guy has been crap for years but now he is a Villa player we should all support him and reserve judgement have I got that right?
Paul McGrath was a world class defender if he made the number of errors this guy makes there might have been a point to your point.
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This guy has been crap for years but now he is a Villa player we should all support him and reserve judgement have I got that right?
Yes, that's exactly what we should do.
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This guy has been crap for years but now he is a Villa player we should all support him and reserve judgement have I got that right?
Paul McGrath was a world class defender if he made the number of errors this guy makes there might have been a point to your point.
Given the alternative is to slag our own player off before he's kicked a ball then yes, you've got it absolutely right. I wouldn't have signed him, but slagging him off like he has been on this thread is ridiculous.
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Transfers tend to give you a reading of where we are as a club at that moment.
Senderos is a pretty uninspiring signing because he really is not very good, not even sure he is an improvement on Baker or Clark.
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Transfers tend to give you a reading of where we are as a club at that moment.
Senderos is a pretty uninspiring signing because he really is not very good, not even sure he is an improvement on Baker or Clark.
I think he's better than those two, probably.
I don't have an issue with this type of signing, so long as it is accompanied by a sufficient number of the more ambitious signings we need to make. Slightly improving our options or squad players isn't going to improve things enough, nothing like enough. We need major improvement to starters in several places.
If we can do that, then we will be ok.
The question is whether we will actually do that.
It worries me that Albion have found the cash for Lescott but we haven't, however, I can understand the logic that says we consider Okore and Vlaar likely to be our starting CB partnership, and then have Senderos, Clark and Baker (unless we move one on) as back ups. That logic says that Lescott on top would not really make sense, so i totally get that.
I just hope that this means wage money is being freed up to considerably improve us elsewhere. Who, for example, is going to be our "starting" left back next year? Or right back, for that matter?
What are we going to add in midfield? If Cole is an option, then fine. If Cole is the answer, then that's considerably less fine.
We'll find out this in due course, but I think at the moment people are rightly nervous that it's not going to happen.
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This guy has been crap for years but now he is a Villa player we should all support him and reserve judgement have I got that right?
You're right, I was wrong. We shouldn't support a Villa player, especially one who has never kicked a ball for us, and we shouldn't judge him on what he does for us.
Senderos out!
I'm off to VP to burn an effigy of Philippe in front of the North Stand gates. Who is with me?
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He might be a bit of a clown but he is our clown.
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's not my first choice and I was hardly popping open the champers when he signed, but I will judge him on what he does in a Villa shirt. Surely that's the best thing to do?
Yes. But this is an open forum for debate isn't it ? ...
That's the whole point of having forums like this isn't it ?
All views are welcomed and open to debate.
Why do you feel the need to say this? You have given your opinion and I and others have given other opinions. We are doing the forum thing.
When you get all defensive like that, you lose. ;-)
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Sounds sensible.Cant wait
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You almost seem to want him to fail, which is strange. Why not give him a chance, he's Villa now.
Of course not, just a depressing signing . He's not PL level.
Be honest with yourself, he isn't is he.
He's not my first choice and I was hardly popping open the champers when he signed, but I will judge him on what he does in a Villa shirt. Surely that's the best thing to do?
Yes. But this is an open forum for debate isn't it ? ...
That's the whole point of having forums like this isn't it ?
All views are welcomed and open to debate.
Why do you feel the need to say this? You have given your opinion and I and others have given other opinions. We are doing the forum thing.
When you get all defensive like that, you lose. ;-)
Not really.
15 all.
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Bloody hell now hes burning effigies.
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Who or what is a hes?
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If you say so silhillvilla. Just don't whinge that "it's a forum why are people arguing with me...?" when a few posters question your comments.
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I thought he was a hapless clown at Arsenal. I can't change that opinion simply because he's signed a contract with the Villa. So it's up to him to prove to everyone that he really is a good defender. If he does that then I'll be the first to sing his praises.
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I wouldn't burn it.The effigy may have better positional sence than the real thing.
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If you say so silhillvilla. Just don't whinge that "it's a forum why are people arguing with me...?" when a few posters question your comments.
Spot on BE. I hope I'm shot down in flames.
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I wouldn't burn it.The effigy may have better positional sence than the real thing.
Do you mean 'sense'?
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I thought he was a hapless clown at Arsenal. I can't change that opinion simply because he's signed a contract with the Villa. So it's up to him to prove to everyone that he really is a good defender. If he does that then I'll be the first to sing his praises.
I think he's pretty rubbish, too, but he's probably less rubbish than Baker and Clark.
Which is nice, but I can't help but think it represents tackling a problem which is way down the list whilst others go unchallenged.
I don't get this "ignore everything they've done previously" when talking about players we sign, though. Managers don't do that - that's why they sign them in the first place - but we somehow should?
Giving the bloke endless abuse I understand is utterly pointless, but it's not like there's some sort of "reset" button that gets flicked when we sign players.
Why, for example, when we sign players of whom everyone approves, don't we have people saying "ignore what he's done before, all his success, that doesn't matter, it's about what he does for us that counts"?
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I thought he was a hapless clown at Arsenal. I can't change that opinion simply because he's signed a contract with the Villa. So it's up to him to prove to everyone that he really is a good defender. If he does that then I'll be the first to sing his praises.
Withholding praise until it's earned isn't the same as expecting him to be shit which is the line a few on here are taking.
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As in common yes.
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I thought he was a hapless clown at Arsenal. I can't change that opinion simply because he's signed a contract with the Villa. So it's up to him to prove to everyone that he really is a good defender. If he does that then I'll be the first to sing his praises.
Withholding praise until it's earned isn't the same as expecting him to be shit which is the line a few on here are taking.
Isn't it just normal for people to have an opinion on players, though? Good or bad?
"We've signed Kompany, I expect he'll turn out to be a great player for us"
"We've signed Senderos, I expect he'll turn out to be a poor player for us"
Both are based on what people have seen of a player.
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Withholding praise until it's earned isn't the same as expecting him to be shit which is the line a few on here are taking.
I think it's fair enough to expect that. There's plenty of evidence to support that view. If, using your skill and judgment, you think it's going to be different this time that's fine too.
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I think he's pretty rubbish, too, but he's probably less rubbish than Baker and Clark.
Put it this way, I'd be happier to see him coming on, in the event of injury, than Baker. But, as you say, it remains to be seen whether that is all that will be required of him.
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being disappointed when it's announced is fine, still slagging him off 2 weeks later is going too far for me.
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As in common yes.
Try to spell it correctly then.
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He's better than Baker, therefore it's an improvement on him playing every week.
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Yes sir. Will there be lines for that?
I must not slag off Philip Senderos 100 times?
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being disappointed when it's announced is fine, still slagging him off 2 weeks later is going too far for me.
I genuinely think it's really no big deal, it's hardly unusual, it's the summer, we've got nothing AVFC related to talk about for a while (we're not even looking for a new manager, for a change), people are obviously going to talk about him.
He's probably hardly been discussed the last week or so anyway, it's just that we've seen him play tonight which has brought him back to discussion.
I made a few comments when he slashed wildly at the ball and France scored, on here and on twitter, but I'm not judging Senderos on that, it's one match.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
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Yes sir. Will there be lines for that?
I must not slag off Philip Senderos 100 times?
If you like. But when your every post is dedicated to slagging a player don't be surprised when your own inability to spell a five letter word correctly is pointed out.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
jesus, that really is a load of old nonsense.
Desperate to see our home grown lads fail?
How about "tired of seeing them fail, almost week in, week out for two seasons"?
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
I disagree with this mate. Having played well over a hundred games between them for Villa, one might have expected some progression. However, neither are premier league quality. In fact, Clark seems to have gone backwards. Possibly down to crap coaching mind!
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Sounds rather petty.But whatever floats your boat.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
jesus, that really is a load of old nonsense.
Desperate to see our home grown lads fail?
How about "tired of seeing them fail, almost week in, week out for two seasons"?
Yes but they could be decent if they didn't have crap like KEA, Westwood, Albrighton and Weimann in front of them.
Why we've signed senderos is not logical unless he knows vlaar is gone already .
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You never know, he might do alright for us. I just do not understand why some people need to begin their conversation on a new player with 'he is shit' 'it's a new low' 'how far have we sunk' stuff. We have not signed me, with my increasing wobbly 43 year old belly. We have signed an experienced defender who has had many good performances in his career and no doubt some not so good. I do not pretend to have a great knowledge of his career, I forget Villa games and players in the instance I leave the ground, but please can we at least give him as chance to fuck things up before we decide he is crap.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
jesus, that really is a load of old nonsense.
Desperate to see our home grown lads fail?
How about "tired of seeing them fail, almost week in, week out for two seasons"?
Yes but they could be decent if they didn't have crap like KEA, Westwood, Albrighton and Weimann in front of them.
Why we've signed senderos is not logical unless he knows vlaar is gone already .
That is the logical conclusion.It is also what is so worrying.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
jesus, that really is a load of old nonsense.
Desperate to see our home grown lads fail?
How about "tired of seeing them fail, almost week in, week out for two seasons"?
Yes but they could be decent if they didn't have crap like KEA, Westwood, Albrighton and Weimann in front of them.
Why we've signed senderos is not logical unless he knows vlaar is gone already .
Honestly, I struggle to think of any combination of midfielders you could put in front of Baker and Clark and make them look good enough.
They've proven themselves to be not up to it, to suggest it is some sort of desire to see the local lads fail is to totally ignore what we've seen on the pitch.
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You never know, he might do alright for us. I just do not understand why some people need to begin their conversation on a new player with 'he is shit' 'it's a new low' 'how far have we sunk' stuff. We have not signed me, with my increasing wobbly 43 year old belly.
..... not yet. Window doesn't close till the end of August.
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
jesus, that really is a load of old nonsense.
Desperate to see our home grown lads fail?
How about "tired of seeing them fail, almost week in, week out for two seasons"?
Yes but they could be decent if they didn't have crap like KEA, Westwood, Albrighton and Weimann in front of them.
Why we've signed senderos is not logical unless he knows vlaar is gone already .
So deciding a bit more experience at the back is not logical, so we must have sold Vlaar. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that if I could be arsed going through your posts, there would be plenty slagging Ron off as well as not good enough so wouldn't it be a like for like swap?
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I am confident that PL's original plan was to play a high defensive line and pressure the ball high up the pitch. This is based largely on comments he made at the time he signed Okore and Bacuna. In fact, it was Okore's speed at getting back to quell a danger which led to his injury.
I posted at the time that this was a massive blow, but I did not realise it was worse even than I thought. Clark is a decent footballer, but no centre half, and Baker had the makings of decent CH before PL programmed him to go into Kamikaze mode. Neither of them have pace.
In that sense, I doubt Senderos will be first choice, but a setback or two and there it is. Lying deep, 3 centre halves because the full backs can't defend, no DCM who can impose on the game (or even tackle) and provide cover to the centre of defence, Kamikaze tackles and the hoof.
To be honest, it is probably utopian to be even talking about the original plan given what has happened since.
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I'm definately in the 'give him a chance as a Villa player before we slag off' camp, but he is now a Villa player, he played a competitive game for his country tonight and had a moment that reminded us of Collins/Baker/Davies etc so people are entitled to say 'crikey he looked a bit shit there' without everyone jumping down their throat.
With regards to Baker/Clark being good and it's all the midfielders fault they look shit, thats total bollox. They are shit, they've always been shit, they always will be shit, and have had plenty of chances. IMHO of course :-)
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I know he made an individual error for the 4th goal but he didn't do a lot wrong for most of the game. France were superb coming forward and they were pulling all of the Swiss players out of position. The Swiss midfield which has a couple of very decent players were overrun. To me he looked ok, nothing overwhelmingly to get excited about but certainly nothing that should cause anyone to be overly critical. Vlaar and Okore will start and Senderos is most certainly an upgrade on Clark and Baker.
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being disappointed when it's announced is fine, still slagging him off 2 weeks later is going too far for me.
I genuinely think it's really no big deal, it's hardly unusual, it's the summer, we've got nothing AVFC related to talk about for a while (we're not even looking for a new manager, for a change), people are obviously going to talk about him.
He's probably hardly been discussed the last week or so anyway, it's just that we've seen him play tonight which has brought him back to discussion.
I made a few comments when he slashed wildly at the ball and France scored, on here and on twitter, but I'm not judging Senderos on that, it's one match.
There was the usual flak flying around on Twitter about him. Didn't know you were on Twitter, Paulie?
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For Aston Villa (and England, for that matter) nothing seems to be going right. I wonder how many have renewed their season tickets?
In fact West Midlands football (Wolves apart) is in a terrible state. Those who turn up week in week out and pay their hard earned money deverve a medal.
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There's obviously a risk Vlaar attracts suitors. But he's not a Man United player. And it doesn't look to me that there's been a deal lined up, he's still talking about being a villa player next year, eg:
The club captain said in the Birmingham Mail: "I don't know him (Keane) as a person, I know him as a player.
"He has a lot of fighting spirit, and I think that would be really good for us.
"He's a very strong character. I think everybody has a lot of respect for him and I look forward to it."
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I was in favour of the Senderous signing, thought he'd be a decent acquisition with experience, so I have never been negative about him at all,
but you have to say what you see, and I admit he did look dodgy last night
it wasn't a little mistake that you can turn a blind eye to, it was a whopper, which cost his team another goal,
If Baker did that he would be slaughtered not excused, if that's the player that turns up we won't be any further forward
Still hoping though
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I'm all for giving players a chance and willing them to do well in a Villa shirt (incidentally, not had chance or inclination to wade through new kit thread but are the Macron men on the shoulders absent this time? Nice one if so) but the optimistic Senderos posts reminds me of the sadly missed Mark Fletcher's bug-bear about how our opinions on players hitherto agreed upon as being utter tripe (cf. our Marlon), suddenly being elevated into being actually pretty decent and better than what we have as soon as we sign them.
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For Aston Villa (and England, for that matter) nothing seems to be going right. I wonder how many have renewed their season tickets?
In fact West Midlands football (Wolves apart) is in a terrible state. Those who turn up week in week out and pay their hard earned money deverve a medal.
It's called supporting your club. Lots of people do it all over the country. We're not unique.
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Whilst not inspired, I'll judge him on his performances in a Villa shirt.
And let's not forget that all defences can have a bad day at the office regardless of the calibre of the individuals. I've seen the Villa concede fours and fives with Paul McGrath in the centre...
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Is he really going to be a squad player? There must be a big chance of Vlaar being sold after the World Cup when he is at the top of his value.
If be delighted to be proved wrong. Okore and Vlaar would be a great pairing.
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I'm as fickle as fuck: he's wank.
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I'm as fickle as fuck: he's wank.
I'm still in the "at least he's not Baker" camp as well as the "it's okay, Okore is the new McGrath" camp.
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I don't think he's wank. He's an average PL standard CB. There are better there are worse. I just don't see the need to be slagging him. He'll be judged in time when he plays for us.
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I'm going wild with my prediction: he'll have some good games and some bad games.
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We all want him to be good,
most of us don't want to slag him of before he's even played a match for us,
but it is difficult when he's performing like a clown in his very first game since his signing
And I was someone who was very positive about both our signings at the time
Last night didn't do him any favours, and that's just saying it as you see it
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I'm going wild with my prediction: he'll have some good games and some bad games.
I will take it a step further and say he'll do some things that make us think we got a steal and in the same game make us throw a teacup at the wall in anger and bewilderment. But mainly he'll be decent.
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I'm going wild with my prediction: he'll have some good games and some bad games.
I will take it a step further and say he'll do some things that make us think we got a steal and in the same game make us throw a teacup at the wall in anger and bewilderment. But mainly he'll be decent.
would he have improved our defence last year? I think so.
I'm not going to slit my wrists.
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His lack of any sort of pace is his Achilles heel. As mentioned by others if he's sort of our 5th choice CB we shouldn't see much of him
Vlaar>Okore>Clark>Baker>Senderos / Donacien
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I think to put him above Clark and Baker is wishful thinking and quite disrespectful to our own home grown lads. Some people seem desperate to see these two fail.
That maybe but lets face it, it is 100% true. Baker will make a good championship centre back and Clark will never be a good centre back far too light weight. We need to put him back in midfield he'd probably be better there.
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I'm going wild with my prediction: he'll have some good games and some bad games.
I will take it a step further and say he'll do some things that make us think we got a steal and in the same game make us throw a teacup at the wall in anger and bewilderment. But mainly he'll be decent.
I think we're going to need something a bit stronger than tea watching us next season.
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His lack of any sort of pace is his Achilles heel. As mentioned by others if he's sort of our 5th choice CB we shouldn't see much of him
Vlaar>Okore>Clark>Baker>Senderos / Donacien
So you have a full international playing at the WC behind Baker and Clark. Right...
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I'm going wild with my prediction: he'll have some good games and some bad games.
I will take it a step further and say he'll do some things that make us think we got a steal and in the same game make us throw a teacup at the wall in anger and bewilderment. But mainly he'll be decent.
I think we're going to need something a bit stronger than tea watching us next season.
I didn't say there was tea in the teacup ;)
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His lack of any sort of pace is his Achilles heel. As mentioned by others if he's sort of our 5th choice CB we shouldn't see much of him
Vlaar>Okore>Clark>Baker>Senderos / Donacien
So you have a full international playing at the WC behind Baker and Clark. Right...
Clark is also a full international.
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His lack of any sort of pace is his Achilles heel. As mentioned by others if he's sort of our 5th choice CB we shouldn't see much of him
Vlaar>Okore>Clark>Baker>Senderos / Donacien
So you have a full international playing at the WC behind Baker and Clark. Right...
Clark is also a full international.
Playing at the World Cup?
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I bumped into a Fulham supporting neighbour at midday. We were discussing the Footie and I was quizzing him about France v Switzerland and Senderos in particular (I didn't see the game).
He didn't even know we had signed Senderos but when asked about his form last season he thought long and hard and finally said "hapless".
Am sure his experience can be of use next season alongside better players......
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I bumped into a Fulham supporting neighbour at midday. We were discussing the Footie and I was quizzing him about France v Switzerland and Senderos in particular (I didn't see the game).
He didn't even know we had signed Senderos but when asked about his form last season he thought long and hard and finally said "hapless".
Am sure his experience can be of use next season alongside better players......
The worry for me is if he doesn't end up being a squad player and ends up being first choice as with all the plaudits Vlaar is getting there will be teams coming in for him when he returns from the world cup.
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Give the lad a chance. He could be brilliant for us. Some serious clubs have taken a punt on him. He is an experienced player. We need a few of those. Maybe we are the club that makes his potential a reality. Himself, Vlaar(If he is not tapped up) and Okore will get us through this season.....Hopefully.
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Some serious clubs and Fulham I should have added.
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
And if Vlaar stays, Okore comes back and is healthy and Senderos is a back up then we are better than last season at that position. Why only consider the negative or pessimistic scenario?
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
Here is an if and but for ya, Vlaar leaves and Okore doesn't work out and we end up with Clark and Senderos as the centre back pairing that spells yikes. A lot to happen between now and the start of the season.
Or more likely Baker equals double yikes. As I say though only a little negative fantasy nonsense.
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His lack of any sort of pace is his Achilles heel. As mentioned by others if he's sort of our 5th choice CB we shouldn't see much of him
Vlaar>Okore>Clark>Baker>Senderos / Donacien
So you have a full international playing at the WC behind Baker and Clark. Right...
Clark is also a full international.
Playing at the World Cup?
I'm not sure the "playing at the world cup" thing is really that meaningful, especially when you're from a country with a population of 7m.
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
And if Vlaar stays, Okore comes back and is healthy and Senderos is a back up then we are better than last season at that position. Why only consider the negative or pessimistic scenario?
It may come across as pessimistic but I'm trying to be more realistic . Vlaar is likely to leave either this summer or next on a freebie . We clearly took the cheaper option in Senderos over Lescott . Okore I've seen very little of so he could go either way. Baker may still improve as May Clark but it's looking unlikely .
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
And if Vlaar stays, Okore comes back and is healthy and Senderos is a back up then we are better than last season at that position. Why only consider the negative or pessimistic scenario?
It may come across as pessimistic but I'm trying to be more realistic . Vlaar is likely to leave either this summer or next on a freebie . We clearly took the cheaper option in Senderos over Lescott . Okore I've seen very little of so he could go either way. Baker may still improve as May Clark but it's looking unlikely .
Why is Vlaar likely to leave? You're entire point is based around that but why is it more likely than him thinking that a takeover will happen before long and the club will almost certainly be looking to spend big and push up the league so he might as well join on the ground floor and sign a new deal.
Aside from that it's not clear why we went for Senderos instead of Lescott, there are 3-4 reasons this thread.
You are being negative, wrapping negativity up as 'realism' is a personal pet peeve of mine, you see it on football forums all the time as if anyone who thinks everything isn't completely shit all the time is living in the clouds, the realistic view point is to aim somewhere in the middle.
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All ifs and buts at this stage . If vlaar leaves and Senderos is seen as his full on replacement then we could be in trouble.
And if Vlaar stays, Okore comes back and is healthy and Senderos is a back up then we are better than last season at that position. Why only consider the negative or pessimistic scenario?
It may come across as pessimistic but I'm trying to be more realistic . Vlaar is likely to leave either this summer or next on a freebie . We clearly took the cheaper option in Senderos over Lescott . Okore I've seen very little of so he could go either way. Baker may still improve as May Clark but it's looking unlikely .
Why is Vlaar likely to leave? You're entire point is based around that but why is it more likely than him thinking that a takeover will happen before long and the club will almost certainly be looking to spend big and push up the league so he might as well join on the ground floor and sign a new deal.
Aside from that it's not clear why we went for Senderos instead of Lescott, there are 3-4 reasons this thread.
You are being negative, wrapping negativity up as 'realism' is a personal pet peeve of mine, you see it on football forums all the time as if anyone who thinks everything isn't completely shit all the time is living in the clouds, the realistic view point is to aim somewhere in the middle.
Taking all things into consideration, the somewhere in the middle view point, would be that Aston Villa is in a big mess
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As a ST holder having endured the last 4 seasons it's probably made my view negative. But it's reality and it may well get worse before it gets better. The club is in a very precarious position. We can only hope the takeover happens soon and the new owners are loaded and have the clubs best interests at heart.
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As a ST holder having endured the last 4 seasons it's probably made my view negative. But it's reality and it may well get worse before it gets better. The club is in a very precarious position. We can only hope the takeover happens soon and the new owners are loaded and have the clubs best interests at heart.
Being loaded would be a bonus. But being able to put into place a sustainable business plan and make sensible decisions is much more important for me. Someone who wouldn't appoint the likes of TSM for a start. Someone who has something of a track record in the sports club industry would also be helpful. I honestly think that the right owner and the right Manager would be just as good, for me, than someone who is loaded. I would be happy with a slower and steadier build.
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I'd be happier with a more sustainable approach. Just to compete at an upper mid table level for 2 or 3 years with some decent football being played and a few cup runs would be a good start.
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This worries me:
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/11234/Show/Philippe-Senderos
Philippe Senderos' Characteristics
+ Strengths
(Player has no significant strengths)
- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels
Weak
Tackling
Weak
Philippe Senderos's Style of Play
Likes to play short passes
Does not dive into tackles
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Why does that worry you? It's just some random website opinion.
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It worries me when a central defender is weak in aerial duels and tackling, these skills being pretty crucial in that position.
It's actually a football statistics website, I don't know their methodology, but they do purport to use statistical analysis, rather than just opinion.
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Senderos was a regular part of a Fulham defence that conceded even more goals than we did last season. That worries me.
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I doubt he has been brought in to be a starter with us.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
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Senderos was a regular part of a Fulham defence that conceded even more goals than we did last season. That worries me.
Slap.
Comments like that are not welcomed. Please think of something positive about Swiss Phil and post that.
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Senderos and Djourou’s nightmare performance can be highlighted by Opta Stats.
Team Pos Won Tackle Duel Won Fouls Interception Won Outfielder Block Effective Clearance Error Lead To Goal Apps Mins
Johan Djourou Switzerland DF 0 0 2 1 2 4 0 1 90
Philippe Senderos Switzerland DF 0 0 0 0 1 2 1 1 81
As per the table, current Aston Villa defender Senderos failed to win a single tackle, 50/50 or register an interception of any kind. His most notable contribution was one block, two clearances and committing an error which led to a French goal.
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This worries me:
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/11234/Show/Philippe-Senderos
Philippe Senderos' Characteristics
+ Strengths
(Player has no significant strengths)
- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels
Weak
Tackling
Weak
Philippe Senderos's Style of Play
Likes to play short passes
Does not dive into tackles
I would have thought "does not dive into tackles" would be more of a strength than a weakness for a central defender to be honest.
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That's just the formatting from the copy + paste. That last section is just his "style of play", and not necessarily strengths or weaknesses.
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Senderos was a regular part of a Fulham defence that conceded even more goals than we did last season. That worries me.
Slap.
Comments like that are not welcomed. Please think of something positive about Swiss Phil and post that.
Senderos was part of the Valencia tram that finished 8th in La Liga and were semi-finalists in the Europa League?
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That's just the formatting from the copy + paste. That last section is just his "style of play", and not necessarily strengths or weaknesses.
Oh I get you. I thought they'd actually listed one of Senderos's key weaknesses as "plays like Philippe Senderos." Ha ha.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
Is it no longer possible for the club to buy squad players without people becoming angry about it? Every single Villa fan and their mum knows we need 4 or 5 starters, but it isn't the end of the world if we buy better depth than we have currently at the club. Senderos joining didn't send extra blood into my pants either but the way some are going on it's August 31st and the signing is a sure sign of the arrival of the Four Horseman Of the Apocalypse.
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What's that rumbling of hooves I can hear approaching ?
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I doubt he has been brought in to be a starter with us.
I honestly don't know, I suppose as always it will depend on how he performs
but if we are signing Centre Halfs who are considered behind Baker and Clark in the pecking order then you have to ask the question , why
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This worries me:
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/11234/Show/Philippe-Senderos
Philippe Senderos' Characteristics
+ Strengths
(Player has no significant strengths)
- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels
Weak
Tackling
Weak
Philippe Senderos's Style of Play
Likes to play short passes
Does not dive into tackles
In the name of balance, from the same site:
Nathan Baker's Characteristics
+ Strengths
Aerial Duels
Strong
Blocking the ball
Strong
- Weaknesses
Passing
Weak
Concentration
Weak
Ciaran Clark's Characteristics
+ Strengths
Crossing
Strong
Blocking the ball
Strong
- Weaknesses
Holding on to the ball
Weak
Passing
Weak
Discipline
Weak
They're the guys he's competing against in the squad, I'd say the 'passing' weakness for both of them and the 'concentration' weakness for Baker and 'Discipline' weakness for Clark sum up why we've had the number of defensive issues we have.
Just to round things out fully:
Ron Vlaar's Characteristics
+ Strengths
Tackling
Strong
Concentration
Strong
- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels
Weak
Passing
Weak
That'll be another one with a black mark against his passing, which actually makes me think the passing issue might be a team/tactical problem more than an individual one, except in Baker's case at least.
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The funny thing with Vlaar is, put him in the Dutch side and his passing looks a lot better. In the Villa side of course, the movement in front of him is non-existent and it also seems to be a pre-requisite for us to hoof the ball up to whoever is playing up front. Likewise Clark's passing hasn't always been a weakness but he's turned into a hoof specialist in recent years too.
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The funny thing with Vlaar is, put him in the Dutch side and his passing looks a lot better. In the Villa side of course, the movement in front of him is non-existent and it also seems to be a pre-requisite for us to hoof the ball up to whoever is playing up front. Likewise Clark's passing hasn't always been a weakness but he's turned into a hoof specialist in recent years too.
That's why I think it's a tactical thing that's caused it. Baker is genuinely a poor passer, he always has been, but those poor passing flags have only appeared by Clark and Vlaar in the last 6 months.
I'm not sure if it's a lack of movement as such, Westwood is pretty good at making himself available for the defenders, it's the sheer percentage of hoofballs they were launching.
From the same site:
Vlaar attempted 220 longballs (in 32 games) and 114 were accurate (just under 52%)
Clark attempted 142 longballs (in 23 starts and 4 sub appearances) and 60 were accurate (just over 42%)
Baker attempted 79 longballs (in 29 starts and 1 sub appearance) and 34 were accurate (just over 43%)
Oddly Baker has a lot less, which makes the fact that his overall pass success rate is lower than the others all the more damning.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
Is it no longer possible for the club to buy squad players without people becoming angry about it? Every single Villa fan and their mum knows we need 4 or 5 starters, but it isn't the end of the world if we buy better depth than we have currently at the club. Senderos joining didn't send extra blood into my pants either but the way some are going on it's August 31st and the signing is a sure sign of the arrival of the Four Horseman Of the Apocalypse.
Well like you I am bored about all this pointless debate, but I have one question what makes you think he is a squad player? Whose to say than Lambert hasn't thought we need another experience central back to play with Vlaar and Senderos is that man? If he is a squad player then it is a bit more acceptable I will grant you.
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Be interesting to see how the defence lines up at Stoke now we have Swiss Phil, Alan done his time Hutton, Roncrete, Okore fit , Lowton , Bennett, Baker, Luna , Clark. Lots of options
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Be interesting to see how the defence lines up at Stoke now we have Swiss Phil, Alan done his time Hutton, Roncrete, Okore fit , Lowton , Bennett, Baker, Luna , Clark. Lots of options
Just looking at most of those names brings me out in a nervous rash
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Well at least Hutton will be able to kick lumps out of them ;)
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Be interesting to see how the defence lines up at Stoke now we have Swiss Phil, Alan done his time Hutton, Roncrete, Okore fit , Lowton , Bennett, Baker, Luna , Clark. Lots of options
Just looking at most of those names brings me out in a nervous rash
Guess it's a bit like having a collection of bad cars.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
Is it no longer possible for the club to buy squad players without people becoming angry about it? Every single Villa fan and their mum knows we need 4 or 5 starters, but it isn't the end of the world if we buy better depth than we have currently at the club. Senderos joining didn't send extra blood into my pants either but the way some are going on it's August 31st and the signing is a sure sign of the arrival of the Four Horseman Of the Apocalypse.
Well like you I am bored about all this pointless debate, but I have one question what makes you think he is a squad player? Whose to say than Lambert hasn't thought we need another experience central back to play with Vlaar and Senderos is that man? If he is a squad player then it is a bit more acceptable I will grant you.
My belief stems from the fact that prior to Okore's injury, Okore and Vlaar were set to become the established CB pairing. I think that is still what Lambert wants. Senderos will off course be expected to compete for one of those two positions. And while no pro should ever settle for a squad position, I think that the first choice pairing going into the new season is Vlaar/Okore. Yes, I am completely bored of this topic, but I will say that if it reduces the amount of Baker sightings then I am all for it.
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I also think we'll employ 3 centre-backs more often than we did last season. In which case you'd want at least 4 of them in the matchday squad.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
Is it no longer possible for the club to buy squad players without people becoming angry about it? Every single Villa fan and their mum knows we need 4 or 5 starters, but it isn't the end of the world if we buy better depth than we have currently at the club. Senderos joining didn't send extra blood into my pants either but the way some are going on it's August 31st and the signing is a sure sign of the arrival of the Four Horseman Of the Apocalypse.
I'm not angry at the signing of Senderos, it's the other players I don't trust our leaders to pay for that worry me.
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It'll be ace if we ever get round to signing players who can be considered starters for us.
It'll be just like old times, when they use to wheel out that "proud history" bullshit, when we used to show a bit of ambition, before it all got so unambitious and embarassing that they wouldn't even have the balls to roll out something like that any more.
Is it no longer possible for the club to buy squad players without people becoming angry about it? Every single Villa fan and their mum knows we need 4 or 5 starters, but it isn't the end of the world if we buy better depth than we have currently at the club. Senderos joining didn't send extra blood into my pants either but the way some are going on it's August 31st and the signing is a sure sign of the arrival of the Four Horseman Of the Apocalypse.
I'm not angry at the signing of Senderos, it's the other players I don't trust our leaders to pay for that worry me.
I'm hanging on to the hope that our current leaders won't be our current leaders come the end of the transfer window, and that being the case we will have signed some of what we actually need by that point. The signings of Senderos and Cole will become what they are and not players we will actually rely on.
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Pretty sad when we're all hoping our new signings actually don't get anywhere near the pitch
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Pretty sad when we're all hoping our new signings actually don't get anywhere near the pitch
One the one hand, that's a pretty doomish overreaction.
On the other, it's quite funny as gallows humor.
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Pretty sad when we're all hoping our new signings actually don't get anywhere near the pitch
that's not all what I said or even suggested. Do you think when Man City bought now 33yrd old Demechelis he was seen as a starter? A team with more money than they know what to do with? They bought him as primarily and experienced squad player to assist in the CL campaign, yet over the course of the season he ended up playing in a lot of games and being better than what they had despite a couple of clangers in games. Worst case scenario is that Okore and Vlaar don't work out for whatever reason and Senderos becomes one of the starting CB's but I don't believe he has been bought with that in mind.
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What worries me is that TV, bless him, is one of our most positive and optimistic posters at the start of the season but is almost always as despondent as the rest of us come the end of the season. Just once I'd like the team to live up his faith in them.
But, as walnuts says, Senderos wasn't signed because the club see him as a player who will radically improve us: worryingly it's the players we haven't yet signed who would fall into that category
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I also think we'll employ 3 centre-backs more often than we did last season. In which case you'd want at least 4 of them in the matchday squad.
I agree, I don't think we'll see Weimann and Gabby wide very often, more likely 3 at the back, Bacuna/Lowton and Bennett wing backs, Delph and Westwood behind Cole with 2 up top, probably Kozak and one of Gabby/Weimann until the Belgian is fit.
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What worries me is that TV, bless him, is one of our most positive and optimistic posters at the start of the season but is almost always as despondent as the rest of us come the end of the season. Just once I'd like the team to live up his faith in them.
But, as walnuts says, Senderos wasn't signed because the club see him as a player who will radically improve us: worryingly it's the players we haven't yet signed who would fall into that category
I'm just not as down on things before everything has played out. A million things will happen between now and the end of the transfer window so why get fired up about what we don't know for sure until then? Find me again on September 1st if Okore isn't fully fit, Vlaar has gone and Senderos and Baker are trying not to fall over each other as our starting CB pairing and I might have a toaster in the bath with me. Until then I'd rather stay as calm as possible and not look at things from the bleakest perspective.
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I'm just not as down on things before everything has played out. A million things will happen between now and the end of the transfer window so why get fired up about what we don't know for sure until then? Find me again on September 1st if Okore isn't fully fit, Vlaar has gone and Senderos and Baker are trying not to fall over each other as our starting CB pairing and I might have a toaster in the bath with me. Until then I'd rather stay as calm as possible and not look at things from the bleakest perspective.
I wasn't having a pop TV. The way I see it is that at then end of last season things looked very bleak, then we got a minor boost when the club was put up for sale, then it looked bleak again when we realised it wasn't going to be sold for quite some while, that Lambert would be staying, that we'd be shopping in the bargain basement again and that we'd probably be looking at another season of struggle. If any of those things change before now and August 31st then I'll be enthused and positive. But I find it difficult to be that at the moment. After all we've still got all the muppets in charge who are responsible for this mess, and most of the under-performing squadmuppets.
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Hilts, you were correct on me being thoroughly pissed off at the end of the season and you're right there is huge concern at how things ended. However, a small percentage of that is that things just went downhill so quickly on numerous front that it almost felt as though everyone, including the players and club just needed to get to the finishing line. Now that we are there, if nothing else changes, we can only hope that injured players get back to fitness, the integration of some of the unwanted has some short benefit albeit short term in many cases, the new coaching staff is better than those we fired, and that we can all start with a bit more optimism than how it ended. I want to believe it can't get worse.
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Hilts, you were correct on me being thoroughly pissed off at the end of the season and you're right there is huge concern at how things ended. However, a small percentage of that is that things just went downhill so quickly on numerous front that it almost felt as though everyone, including the players and club just needed to get to the finishing line. Now that we are there, if nothing else changes, we can only hope that injured players get back to fitness, the integration of some of the unwanted has some short benefit albeit short term in many cases, the new coaching staff is better than those we fired, and that we can all start with a bit more optimism than how it ended. I want to believe it can't get worse.
That's a fair point. Okores, Benteke and Kozak getting fit will be a boost, as will getting rid of C & K presumably.
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What worries me is that TV, bless him, is one of our most positive and optimistic posters at the start of the season but is almost always as despondent as the rest of us come the end of the season. Just once I'd like the team to live up his faith in them.
But, as walnuts says, Senderos wasn't signed because the club see him as a player who will radically improve us: worryingly it's the players we haven't yet signed who would fall into that category
I'm just not as down on things before everything has played out. A million things will happen between now and the end of the transfer window so why get fired up about what we don't know for sure until then? Find me again on September 1st if Okore isn't fully fit, Vlaar has gone and Senderos and Baker are trying not to fall over each other as our starting CB pairing and I might have a toaster in the bath with me. Until then I'd rather stay as calm as possible and not look at things from the bleakest perspective.
I agree with this. The other thing to keep in mind is that last time we were taken over we had no time to look for new players, etc and ended up just getting Petrov in at the end of the window and relying on what we had until January. The same happened to Man City with Robinho in the first window for the current lot. I don't mind a couple of cheap stop gaps in positions where we've had major issues even if they have to be replaced in 6-12months. I suspect we'll see a left back before long as well.
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Hilts, you were correct on me being thoroughly pissed off at the end of the season and you're right there is huge concern at how things ended. However, a small percentage of that is that things just went downhill so quickly on numerous front that it almost felt as though everyone, including the players and club just needed to get to the finishing line. Now that we are there, if nothing else changes, we can only hope that injured players get back to fitness, the integration of some of the unwanted has some short benefit albeit short term in many cases, the new coaching staff is better than those we fired, and that we can all start with a bit more optimism than how it ended. I want to believe it can't get worse.
That's a fair point. Okores, Benteke and Kozak getting fit will be a boost, as will getting rid of C & K presumably.
You have to think that pre-season will include Okore, N'Zogbia, Kozak, Bent, Senderos and Cole. Even Hutton as big a liability that he is should be pushing Lowton and Bacuna. Let's say Keane comes in as a coach and Lambert brings in another then we should be better off. The optimism of it being a fresh start for all concerned, possibly new owners on the horizon or even a done deal (yes that likely changes things for Lambert), and things are better than they were in May when the roof had fallen in. A few faces will be gone that did nothing. It's not completely nuts to think that group is better than the one that ended the previous campaign and with Benteke to come back around October/November.
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What worries me is that TV, bless him, is one of our most positive and optimistic posters at the start of the season but is almost always as despondent as the rest of us come the end of the season. Just once I'd like the team to live up his faith in them.
But, as walnuts says, Senderos wasn't signed because the club see him as a player who will radically improve us: worryingly it's the players we haven't yet signed who would fall into that category
I'm just not as down on things before everything has played out. A million things will happen between now and the end of the transfer window so why get fired up about what we don't know for sure until then? Find me again on September 1st if Okore isn't fully fit, Vlaar has gone and Senderos and Baker are trying not to fall over each other as our starting CB pairing and I might have a toaster in the bath with me. Until then I'd rather stay as calm as possible and not look at things from the bleakest perspective.
I agree with this. The other thing to keep in mind is that last time we were taken over we had no time to look for new players, etc and ended up just getting Petrov in at the end of the window and relying on what we had until January. The same happened to Man City with Robinho in the first window for the current lot. I don't mind a couple of cheap stop gaps in positions where we've had major issues even if they have to be replaced in 6-12months. I suspect we'll see a left back before long as well.
That's fine if we actually get taken over.
We could find ourselves still owned by Randy in a year or two. What happens in the meantime if that is the case? The longer we go on with this sort of frozen-reality scenario, the more likely it is that we'll go down.
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Do you really believe Randy will still be owning us in a year or two?
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
As recently as 2013. Ł125m.
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
As recently as 2013. Ł125m.
There is a statement from the chairman that he is looking for a buyer? I don't remember that. Lots of rumours and suggestions but were they ever actually put up for sale?
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
As recently as 2013. Ł125m.
There is a statement from the chairman that he is looking for a buyer? I don't remember that. Lots of rumours and suggestions but were they ever actually put up for sale?
All I can find is a quote from Stan Collymore saying that he spoke to an Everton board member who told him that the price was Ł125m.
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Everton will be for sale for the rest of Kenwrights days. I can't see him ever wanting to let them go.
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
As recently as 2013. Ł125m.
I make that 1 not 10 however I do struggle with complex numbers!
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Everton will be for sale for the rest of Kenwrights days. I can't see him ever wanting to let them go.
Is the correct answer, they let the odd leak out (like the Collymore one above) that they're for sale but there's no will to actually go through with it from what I can see.
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
Playing devil's advocate here, but why does a club have to be officially announced as for sale before it is actually for sale?
And even if that's the measure, Kenwright has been saying - "saying", I appreciate the vagueness of that - that he'd sell to someone who could progress the club if such a person came forward for years now.
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I have always felt that Kenwright will not sell while Everton continue to punch above their weight. It fuels his dreams. Once the reality of a new Anfield and a revitalized Liverpool kicks in he will do a Randy and seek the company of Maggie May the scouse Sunnamite woman.
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Do you really believe Randy will still be owning us in a year or two?
I didn't say that I thought he would.
It is a possibility, though.
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Do you really believe Randy will still be owning us in a year or two?
I didn't say that I thought he would.
It is a possibility, though.
Yes and a pretty worrying one at that.
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It's possible . Just look how difficult Everton are proving to sell. 10 years and waiting.
When did they officially announce they were sale?
Playing devil's advocate here, but why does a club have to be officially announced as for sale before it is actually for sale?
And even if that's the measure, Kenwright has been saying - "saying", I appreciate the vagueness of that - that he'd sell to someone who could progress the club if such a person came forward for years now.
That's like saying everything that you own has a price. So by that definition everything is always for sale whether someone publicly says it or not. There is a big difference between Kenwright hinting at something every year to being any real conviction in carrying it through. Lerner making it public is a declaration that he wants out. Kenwright by comparison has no real desire to go but would do if someone offers him something utterly stupid. I'd sell everything I own if someone offered me something utterly stupid as we all would.
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I'd sell everything I own if someone offered me something utterly stupid as we all would.
Which is by and large my point. Announcing a club as "for sale" doesn't stand up to scrutiny as the only measure of whether the owner would sell or not, or whether a club is "for sale".
In fact, quite the opposite, most of the time the owner wouldn't do so as it could be construed as something which lessens your chance of getting top dollar.
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I think it's fair to say that Randy is a more motivated seller than either Kenwright or Ashley at the moment.
That doesn't mean that we'll be sold earlier than either of them, but if a buyer's criteria is nothing more than 'a Premier Laegue club' then it makes us a bit more likely than either of them.
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I would argue that we have been all but 'up for sale' for a few years now. Movements in the finances certainly suggested it.
The announcement just confirmed it for me.
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I'd sell everything I own if someone offered me something utterly stupid as we all would.
Which is by and large my point. Announcing a club as "for sale" doesn't stand up to scrutiny as the only measure of whether the owner would sell or not, or whether a club is "for sale".
In fact, quite the opposite, most of the time the owner wouldn't do so as it could be construed as something which lessens your chance of getting top dollar.
Just my impression but I think Randy has greater things motivating him to get out than just money. His life away from football and the privacy that comes with it are as important if not more so than being part of such a public business. And especially one where the seas get rather choppy when not going well. Off course he has a huge financial stake and in that regard he isn't going to give it away, but the other stuff makes him a more motivated seller than Kenwright or Ashley by comparison.
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
I agree with this.
I can't wait until we've got our squad players all lined up so we can go out and buy some first team players.
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When is our Phil's next match? Can't wait to see if he and his team will do a better job than they did against France?
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When is our Phil's next match? Can't wait to see if he and his team will do a better job than they did against France?
Tonight I think 9pm!
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
Yep, I hope Senderos is the second coming of Paul McGrath, I'd even settle for him being about as good as Zat Knight. But in reality, he's probably going to cause us all a lot of anger, frustration and pain should he play a lot of games.
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When is our Phil's next match? Can't wait to see if he and his team will do a better job than they did against France?
Tonight I think 9pm!
Tomorrow night at 9, tonight is our group plus the one with Columbia in.
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Pretty sad when we're all hoping our new signings actually don't get anywhere near the pitch
One the one hand, that's a pretty doomish overreaction.
On the other, it's quite funny as gallows humor.
The truth sometimes does hurt
When you sign someone so shit that the only excuse is to say don't worry he's only a squad member he's number x in the pecking order he won't be getting much game time
Exciting times ahead
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
the best thing that I can think to say about Senderos is that at least he isn't Titus Bramble - but he's not much better
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
the best thing that I can think to say about Senderos is that at least he isn't Titus Bramble - but he's not much better
A more relevant observation would be that he's not Nathan Baker, and that's good enough for me.
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
I agree with this.
I can't wait until we've got our squad players all lined up so we can go out and buy some first team players.
Well the starting XI are so ace, it's hard to improve on perfection.
That's why we've been buying squad players for the past two summers. Or something.
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Oh, and as this is the Senderos thread, and I don't think I have commented so far.
I don't rate him and never have, and I think it's a poor signing be it back up or starting.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
Agree glasses. It's a poor poor signing . As is Joe Cole.
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The satisfaction I take from Senderos signing and from Cole is that we are signing anybody at all. It is a small improvement on the January window. Bit like your car not starting on the morning you are going on holiday then on the fiftieth turn of the ignition key the engine fires and runs for two seconds.
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In all this shiteness, and it is shite, it's easy to forget that other than our distrous end to the season we were comfortable mid-table. With Baker. Also, we were the only team in teh Premiership to take points from all of the top 4. With Baker. That he was poor, as was everyone, around the time of shambolic behind the scenes shouldn't mean he should be singled out as the scapegoat.
I don't think we'll go down next season but unless there is some investment - not even from a new owner - we'll struggle to improve from what we should have been until the nose dive post Chelsea - and that's a comfortable mid-table team.
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In all this shiteness, and it is shite, it's easy to forget that other than our distrous end to the season we were comfortable mid-table.
Not sure about this. Unless by "end to the season" you mean Christmas onwards?
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No, from Chelsea onwards. We were up and down all season, but after Cheslea is was very much largely down.
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It wasn't great pre-Chelsea though. It certainly didn't feel that we were comfortable after losing at home to Palace on boxing Day. That said, there was a renewed sense of optimism after Chelsea. In fact, we were all gleely contemplating winning 3 home games on the trot for the first time in 604 years before we got given a footballing lesson by Stoke.
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No, we were rubbish against Palace, and great at Arsenal. Slightly better at home to Swansea and played out a dull draw at Hull. Crap at home to Stoke and unlcuky at Chelsea. We were up, we were down like a lot of lower mid-table teams tend to be. After Chelsea, though, save for a distracted Hull, we were dire.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
It looked to be utter complacency to me. We'd just beaten Chelsea (and probably out-played them) and were 1-0 up at home to Stoke within 5 minutes. Certainly Bacuna's performance that day suggested that he wasn't expecting anything other than a routine win.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
one the great mysteries of all time. How, a team high on life after beating Norwich convincingly, Chelsea dramatically, and going so well against Stoke capitulated not only in that game, but all the way until the end of the season. Not one Villa fan, even the most dour and depressed could ever have seen that coming. Even with stuff melting down behind the scenes with the coaches nobody could have predicted we'd fall from safety of mid table (we were 10th or 11th I think at the time) to the edges of relegation.
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I had to go out not long after we'd gone 1 up and thought we'd stroll it. Looked good, confident, and set for a good finish to the season seeing us attack Newcastle and Southampton. Unbelievable how we crumbled.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
Stoke is the common denominator, weird, it's where it all went tits up when 2-0 up & cruising in 2009.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
Stoke is the common denominator, weird, it's where it all went tits up when 2-0 up & cruising in 2009.
Simply consider the monumental history altering impact of that last Stoke goal. All of the things that came of that. Moscow fallout, crushing decline from what appeared sure CL qualification, players leaving, manager walking out, near financial ruin, immense fan disillusionment. So many horrible things in large part down to "that goal"
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An alternative (admittedly pessimistic) way to look at last season is to say that when it comes to playing your 'peers' we were comfortably relegation fodder, staying up because of some excellent performances and a fair bit of luck against the big boys
Those results could be a sign of what we really can do. But I can't see us replicating those results again next year so we're going to have to find a way of not looking awful against the majority of sides in the league.
How many of our ten wins last year were genuinely comfortable to the extent that you think 'if we put in that performance against them next year I'd expect to win'?
Hull and Norwich at home perhaps? Any more?
Would love to be proved wrong but I think we are absolutely right on the shit. I'm not expecting us to make it five successful relegation scraps in a row. But if benteke can come back earlier than expected, Okore succeeds and some of our second season syndrome types recover from that rather than fading away, then I'll be wrong.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
My answer involves Stephen Ireland visiting some sort of Witch Doctor clutching an envelope full of photos of our first team.
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Would love to be proved wrong but I think we are absolutely right on the shit. I'm not expecting us to make it five successful relegation scraps in a row. But if benteke can come back earlier than expected, Okore succeeds and some of our second season syndrome types recover from that rather than fading away, then I'll be wrong.
Would love us both to be wrong but I have to agree. Even looking at the teams that are coming up worries me. I fear that QPR and Leicester will spend there way above us, whilst Burnley will be able to produce good enough home-form to put us in trouble.
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Would love to be proved wrong but I think we are absolutely right on the shit. I'm not expecting us to make it five successful relegation scraps in a row. But if benteke can come back earlier than expected, Okore succeeds and some of our second season syndrome types recover from that rather than fading away, then I'll be wrong.
Would love us both to be wrong but I have to agree. Even looking at the teams that are coming up worries me. I fear that QPR and Leicester will spend there way above us, whilst Burnley will be able to produce good enough home-form to put us in trouble.
Alternatively Burnley will do exactly as they did last time. Win a few early on, and then be shit most of the season and go down having struggled to reach 30 points.
QPR will do what they did last time, spend loads of money on past it players and still go down.
Leicester will be the same as they've been since Pubey left. Which is shit.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
I agree, ultimately, if we do not make a significant change in transfer policy, then sooner or later we'll swap 15th or 16th for 18th or lower, and that'll be that.
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QPR will do what they did last time, spend loads of money on past it players and still go down.
I'd be somewhat amazed if they embarked on exactly the same spending policy as last time. That nearly finished them.
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I agree that we can't keep chancing it, it's simply not good enough for Aston Villa, but I also think some folks underestimate just how shit and inept you have to be to go down. A pretty common view on here was that last season was that it was the worst squad, tactics, performances etc in memory, and yet we still ultimately had enough points after 28 games to stay up. That is how utterly wank you have to be to drop.
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QPR will do what they did last time, spend loads of money on past it players and still go down.
I's be somewhat amazed if they embarked on exactly the same spending policy as last time. That nearly finished them.
Redknapp doesn't generally plan for the future though, so the same type of signings is probably a fair guess.
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As they are supposedly sniffing around the soon to be 36 year old Rio Ferdinand, it does look like they'll still be doing.
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We are tantalisingly close to being a safely mid table side. Add a decent right and left back, keep Vlaar and pair him with Okore. Keep Nzogbia and sign one more decent midfielder. Get Benteke and Kozak fit and have them, Weimann and Gabby attle it out up front. Gabby should not be an automatic choice any more.
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Agreed Kippax. If we have a little more luck than last year, when their appeared to a be a Biblical injury plague targeting only our best players, then I think we should be fine. My problem with Lambert (here we go again) is only that his football rarely inspires and is far too easy to work out. But if you offered me Aston Villa lining up in the Premier League on the first day of the 2015-16 season, then I'd take it instantly.
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Been on the road most of the day, is Swiss Phil playing ? And what's this about Stoke ?
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Swiss Phil - which is a great nickname, has a ring to it - is sadly not starting. Switzerland clearly doomed without him.
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No Phil for Swiss tonight. Not sure if they can rely on my support now.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
Agree and I think teams will simply bury us this season.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
How is it lucky to be better than the teams you finish above, and what has that got to do with two teams doing better than expected last season?
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
Agree and I think teams will simply bury us this season.
Sorry Pete I disagree.....we will be stronger this coming season that is for sure...ok not world beaters but hardly so poor we will be buried by other sides .
UTV
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Swiss Phil - which is a great nickname, has a ring to it
The Arsenal fans did actually call him Swiss Tony.
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Or perhaps Swiss Philly. The juxtaposition of two cheeses would have a certain serendipity.
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I agree that we can't keep chancing it, it's simply not good enough for Aston Villa, but I also think some folks underestimate just how shit and inept you have to be to go down.
No-one's underestimating it, I just think the realists amongst us realise how close we to being that "shot and inept". Worth remembering that Fulham - one of those very sides - took 6 points of us last season. It's also worth remembering that we're embarking on a period of reduced spending and cost-cutting at a time when, in general, Premiership Clubs have more income than ever before.
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I agree that we can't keep chancing it, it's simply not good enough for Aston Villa, but I also think some folks underestimate just how shit and inept you have to be to go down.
No-one's underestimating it, I just think the realists amongst us realise how close we to being that "shot and inept". Worth remembering that Fulham - one of those very sides - took 6 points of us last season. It's also worth remembering that we're embarking on a period of reduced spending and cost-cutting at a time when, in general, Premiership Clubs have more income than ever before.
If what you say, and presumably only what you say, is being a realist, what's your opinion of anyone who disagrees?
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Or perhaps Swiss Philly. The juxtaposition of two cheeses would have a certain serendipity.
More likely Swiss Roll because our defence will be rolled over with him in it!
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
How is it lucky to be better than the teams you finish above, and what has that got to do with two teams doing better than expected last season?
Sorry. If Villa continue as they are, I think one of these seasons Aston Villa will be bad enough to get relegated because they are one of the three worst teams in the league. Luck, as we all know, never comes into it where sport and football in particular are concerned. Villa have the foresight to ensure they aren't quite as bad as the few teams that finish below them through judgement rather than any form of luck.
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Or perhaps Swiss Philly. The juxtaposition of two cheeses would have a certain serendipity.
More likely Swiss Roll because our defence will be rolled over with him in it!
Our defence reminds me of Swiss cheese. Full of holes.
C'mere, there's more.....
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Or perhaps Swiss Philly. The juxtaposition of two cheeses would have a certain serendipity.
More likely Swiss Roll because our defence will be rolled over with him in it!
Our defence reminds me of Swiss cheese. Full of holes.
C'mere, there's more.....
Oh dear, I'll get my wellies!
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
How is it lucky to be better than the teams you finish above, and what has that got to do with two teams doing better than expected last season?
Sorry. If Villa continue as they are, I think one of these seasons Aston Villa will be bad enough to get relegated because they are one of the three worst teams in the league. Luck, as we all know, never comes into it where sport and football in particular are concerned. Villa have the foresight to ensure they aren't quite as bad as the few teams that finish below them through judgement rather than any form of luck.
Agree with the first part, not so much the latter.
I don't think it has been judgement at the top that has ensured survival, and there is a certain level of naivety/ ineptness at the top that almost deserves relegation.
Usually at the end of the season you can look back at games you were unfortunate in, and make a case for a higher league placing. Even the start of this dreadful era under Houllier: If we had held on to the lead in even half the games that we were winning by the 80 minute mark that season, we'd have been 6th again (possibly even higher).
Apart from the Everton game at home and (possibly) Chelsea away, I don't recall too many games that we were unlucky in last season. On the contrary, we scratched out quite a few wins against the run of play.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
How is it lucky to be better than the teams you finish above, and what has that got to do with two teams doing better than expected last season?
Sorry. If Villa continue as they are, I think one of these seasons Aston Villa will be bad enough to get relegated because they are one of the three worst teams in the league. Luck, as we all know, never comes into it where sport and football in particular are concerned. Villa have the foresight to ensure they aren't quite as bad as the few teams that finish below them through judgement rather than any form of luck.
Agree with the first part, not so much the latter.
I don't think it has been judgement at the top that has ensured survival, and there is a certain level of naivety/ ineptness at the top that almost deserves relegation.
Usually at the end of the season you can look back at games you were unfortunate in, and make a case for a higher league placing. Even the start of this dreadful era under Houllier: If we had held on to the lead in even half the games that we were winning by the 80 minute mark that season, we'd have been 6th again (possibly even higher).
Apart from the Everton game at home and (possibly) Chelsea away, I don't recall too many games that we were unlucky in last season. On the contrary, we scratched out quite a few wins against the run of play.
Which when you're at the top is the sign of a good team.
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If it's during a period of under par/poor form, maybe.
When that poor form goes on for the majority of the season it becomes harder to ignore.
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Last year I don't think there was a single person on here who predicted Hull and Palace would stay up, our luck will run out eventually.
How is it lucky to be better than the teams you finish above, and what has that got to do with two teams doing better than expected last season?
Sorry. If Villa continue as they are, I think one of these seasons Aston Villa will be bad enough to get relegated because they are one of the three worst teams in the league. Luck, as we all know, never comes into it where sport and football in particular are concerned. Villa have the foresight to ensure they aren't quite as bad as the few teams that finish below them through judgement rather than any form of luck.
Agree with the first part, not so much the latter.
I don't think it has been judgement at the top that has ensured survival, and there is a certain level of naivety/ ineptness at the top that almost deserves relegation.
Usually at the end of the season you can look back at games you were unfortunate in, and make a case for a higher league placing. Even the start of this dreadful era under Houllier: If we had held on to the lead in even half the games that we were winning by the 80 minute mark that season, we'd have been 6th again (possibly even higher).
Apart from the Everton game at home and (possibly) Chelsea away, I don't recall too many games that we were unlucky in last season. On the contrary, we scratched out quite a few wins against the run of play.
Which when you're at the top is the sign of a good team.
My concern is that you can only spend so many seasons down there before you eventually get dragged in. You can only go to the well so many times.
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If it's during a period of under par/poor form, maybe.
When that poor form goes on for the majority of the season it becomes harder to ignore.
That's a fair point, but it does show how perception plays a large part. Just for one small example, you could say that we were unlucky to lose to stoppage-time goals against Palace and Newcastle, and that diabolical refereeing cost us at Liverpool and Chelsea. That's arguably five extra points which would have seen us safe with a dozen games to go.
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There's no possibly about the Chelsea game for me, we were screwed over by 2 really poor decisions in that game.
I think there's a fair few games where we can probably consider ourselves a tad unlucky, the Palace game around Christmas for example, did anyone really expect a finish like that so late in the game. It was a quality goal but you have to admit that game had 0-0 written all over it. There's a few others that are similar.
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There's a difference between finding a way to win even when you play badly and only winning by luck because you always play badly. Last season had quite a bit too much of the latter, although we had quite a bit of bad luck as well (especially against the Sky teams).
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If it's during a period of under par/poor form, maybe.
When that poor form goes on for the majority of the season it becomes harder to ignore.
That's a fair point, but it does show how perception plays a large part. Just for one small example, you could say that we were unlucky to lose to stoppage-time goals against Palace and Newcastle, and that diabolical refereeing cost us at Liverpool and Chelsea. That's arguably five extra points which would have seen us safe with a dozen games to go.
Isn't that sort of thing just par for the course, though? Bad luck, good luck, I mean?
You could say we were lucky we didn't get totally buried by half time at home to Man City and then profited from some poor defending, that we were lucky to get at least one of the penalties at Arsenal on the first day of the season, and that we were totally under the cosh at southampton but managed to win?
I think the "luck" part of it can have a bigger effect some seasons, but the last three years, we've finished 15th, 15th and 16th - that doesn't suggest much other than we've not been very good for three years.
Then there's the whole question of where our expectations are at these days - it's very sad that these days our ambitions stretch no further than being able to avoid relegation by a slightly improved margin.
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If it's during a period of under par/poor form, maybe.
When that poor form goes on for the majority of the season it becomes harder to ignore.
That's a fair point, but it does show how perception plays a large part. Just for one small example, you could say that we were unlucky to lose to stoppage-time goals against Palace and Newcastle, and that diabolical refereeing cost us at Liverpool and Chelsea. That's arguably five extra points which would have seen us safe with a dozen games to go.
Isn't that sort of thing just par for the course, though? Bad luck, good luck, I mean?
You could say we were lucky we didn't get totally buried by half time at home to Man City and then profited from some poor defending, that we were lucky to get at least one of the penalties at Arsenal on the first day of the season, and that we were totally under the cosh at southampton but managed to win?
I think the "luck" part of it can have a bigger effect some seasons, but the last three years, we've finished 15th, 15th and 16th - that doesn't suggest much other than we've not been very good for three years.
Then there's the whole question of where our expectations are at these days - it's very sad that these days our ambitions stretch no further than being able to avoid relegation by a slightly improved margin.
I've always said that we finish where we deserve, as does every club but equally there's a perception amongst some that every win is in some way fortunate and every defeat proves how bad we are. The reality is that these things probably even themselves out over the course of the season.
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We were lucky to get our wins, but the sides who finished below us were even luckier to get theirs. At the bottom, whoever has the least luck finishes the highest (without wanting to sound like Confucius).
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There's no possibly about the Chelsea game for me, we were screwed over by 2 really poor decisions in that game.
I think there's a fair few games where we can probably consider ourselves a tad unlucky, the Palace game around Christmas for example, did anyone really expect a finish like that so late in the game. It was a quality goal but you have to admit that game had 0-0 written all over it. There's a few others that are similar.
paul e I was at that Palace game on Boxing Day and I definitely saw the defeat coming, though not the quality of their goal. We were outplayed by the team (then bottom of the table) with more desire and flair, and Mr Bannan had a very good game for them. They had several chances to wrap the game up before they actually did, and you cold sense the growing belief from their fans. A point that day would have been welcome but undeserved.
We were just as shit at their place too. I have never enjoyed playing Palace.
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What have all these posts got to do with Philippe Senderos?
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There's no possibly about the Chelsea game for me, we were screwed over by 2 really poor decisions in that game.
I think there's a fair few games where we can probably consider ourselves a tad unlucky, the Palace game around Christmas for example, did anyone really expect a finish like that so late in the game. It was a quality goal but you have to admit that game had 0-0 written all over it. There's a few others that are similar.
paul e I was at that Palace game on Boxing Day and I definitely saw the defeat coming, though not the quality of their goal. We were outplayed by the team (then bottom of the table) with more desire and flair, and Mr Bannan had a very good game for them. They had several chances to wrap the game up before they actually did, and you cold sense the growing belief from their fans. A point that day would have been welcome but undeserved.
We were just as shit at their place too. I have never enjoyed playing Palace.
I agree, it was clearly coming, they were much the better team.
What worried me most last season wasn't so much that we lost to "poor" teams, but the degree to which they frequently made us look second best and like we didn't actually deserve to get anything from the games.
EDIT - and thinking about it, that's one difference between Lambert's second year and his first.
In the first year, we lost a lot of games but frequently looked like we deserved more than we got. Which is one reason people were so supportive come the end of the season.
In the second year, we lost a lot of games and generally looked second best far, far more frequently.
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Back to Senderos. Wonder if Switzerland were resting him last night in preparation for facing Messi?
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There's a difference between finding a way to win even when you play badly and only winning by luck because you always play badly. Last season had quite a bit too much of the latter, although we had quite a bit of bad luck as well (especially against the Sky teams).
Our bad luck wasn't in terms of results/performances it was injuries, Losing Okore for the season in the 4th game was a big blow, losing Kozak for the rest of the season in January similarly so and losing Benteke for 6weeks early in the season and then about the same at the end of the season was worse still. Add in the nzog missed the entire season and we really did have shitty luck with injuries, we were in the top 5 for injured players for pretty much the entire season, when funds are tight it's always going to be difficult to absorb that.
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There's no possibly about the Chelsea game for me, we were screwed over by 2 really poor decisions in that game.
I think there's a fair few games where we can probably consider ourselves a tad unlucky, the Palace game around Christmas for example, did anyone really expect a finish like that so late in the game. It was a quality goal but you have to admit that game had 0-0 written all over it. There's a few others that are similar.
paul e I was at that Palace game on Boxing Day and I definitely saw the defeat coming, though not the quality of their goal. We were outplayed by the team (then bottom of the table) with more desire and flair, and Mr Bannan had a very good game for them. They had several chances to wrap the game up before they actually did, and you cold sense the growing belief from their fans. A point that day would have been welcome but undeserved.
We were just as shit at their place too. I have never enjoyed playing Palace.
I agree, it was clearly coming, they were much the better team.
Thirded. And then a few days later we were lucky to get a point at home to Swansea, who had about 99.8% possession if my memory serves me correctly. We ended-up with 1 point from what had initially looked like a very kind set of Christmas fixtures.
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Whilst there is a degree of truth in that, we didn't look particularly dynamic with either Kozak or Benteke in the side.
We went from being quite bad up until Benteke's injury to absolutely woeful from that point onwards.
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Losing Okore for the season in the 4th game was a big blow
My fear with this is that we don't really know this. Yes he had a promising pre-season, but then so did Tonev and Helenius. I worry that Lambert will go into next season putting a lot of faith in an untested, young defender who hardly kicked a ball next year.
Or Philippe Senderos.
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Losing Okore for the season in the 4th game was a big blow
My fear with this is that we don't really know this. Yes he had a promising pre-season, but then so did Tonev and Helenius. I worry that Lambert will go into next season putting a lot of faith in an untested, young defender who hardly kicked a ball next year.
All we know for sure is that in the 257 minutes he played for us he looked more than capable of being a very good premier league defender. It might be a risk to rely on him, but it's a bigger risk to not try and have him waste on the bench and leave having never been given a run of games. Sometimes you have to just look at a young player and decide to put some faith in them to do the business, Okore, Robinson and Grealish are 3 that I think we should put that faith in over the next 6months (and then Donacien after that).
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Whilst there is a degree of truth in that, we didn't look particularly dynamic with either Kozak or Benteke in the side.
We went from being quite bad up until Benteke's injury to absolutely woeful from that point onwards.
We were mid-table and coping quite comfortably.
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Wishing to sound like Confucius there is luck and there is luck. Were we lucky to sign Senderos or lucky not to sign Lescott? Were we unlucky that CB ruptured his Achilles tendon because he will not be sold in the summer? Bad luck and good luck lie side by side in the same bed. To get good luck you have to risk getting bad luck. The alternative is the inertia of lucklessness.
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Back to Senderos. Wonder if Switzerland were resting him last night in preparation for facing Messi?
*chortle*
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Losing Okore for the season in the 4th game was a big blow
My fear with this is that we don't really know this. Yes he had a promising pre-season, but then so did Tonev and Helenius. I worry that Lambert will go into next season putting a lot of faith in an untested, young defender who hardly kicked a ball next year.
All we know for sure is that in the 257 minutes he played for us he looked more than capable of being a very good premier league defender. It might be a risk to rely on him, but it's a bigger risk to not try and have him waste on the bench and leave having never been given a run of games. Sometimes you have to just look at a young player and decide to put some faith in them to do the business, Okore, Robinson and Grealish are 3 that I think we should put that faith in over the next 6months (and then Donacien after that).
He looked fairly good in that short time. Nothing more. That's not me being a doom-monger that's me giving a genuinely honest opinion. I also thought that both Clark and Baker looked good at the beginning of the season though. My main concern is that he doesn't look like a good partner for Vlaar to me. Neither particularly like attacking the ball (both preferring to drop off and sweep) and both are more comfortable playing on the right hand side of a pairing.
In regard to the point about having faith in kids, I do agree but think that it can do more harm than good if you try to blood them in a struggling side that lacks experience. I've made the point before, but I honestly think that one of the major differences between Gareth Barry and Ciaran Clark is that Barry was able to learn his trade in a good side with a lot of experienced pros, whilst Clark was forced to shoulder too much responsibility and pressure too early. There's not much between them in terms of footballing ability, but Barry's assured calmness and Clark's panic-stricken lack of composure are surely products of their footballing upbringing?
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Excellent post Russ.
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I don't really think it is possible to form a realistic opinion of a player when he has played less than three whole matches at this level, to be honest - good or bad.
Which is why I would neither write off or acclaim Okore, and is why I also thought Helenius got a lot of unfair stick.
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I don't really think it is possible to form a realistic opinion of a player when he has played less than three whole matches at this level, to be honest - good or bad.
Which is why I would neither write off or acclaim Okore, and is why I also thought Helenius got a lot of unfair stick.
I agree completely, and I guess it's just deciding which is worse - the fear of the unknown (Okore) or the fear of the known (Senderos)!
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I don't really think it is possible to form a realistic opinion of a player when he has played less than three whole matches at this level, to be honest - good or bad.
Which is why I would neither write off or acclaim Okore, and is why I also thought Helenius got a lot of unfair stick.
agree, but he looked bloody good in that game against Chelsea in the CL. You can mask a lot of things and everyone can have great Youtube moments but it wasn't like those highlights were against some no name outfit.
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I don't really think it is possible to form a realistic opinion of a player when he has played less than three whole matches at this level, to be honest - good or bad.
Which is why I would neither write off or acclaim Okore, and is why I also thought Helenius got a lot of unfair stick.
agree, but he looked bloody good in that game against Chelsea in the CL. You can mask a lot of things and everyone can have great Youtube moments but it wasn't like those highlights were against some no name outfit.
Toronto, I agree with your general assessment and think Okore holds a lot of potential for us but the miserable devil's advocate in me could point to plenty of great performances over the years which were not sustained - just off the top of my head Hogg and Bannan v Man U in 2010, Ian Olney for a while in 1989-90, Gareth Williams as a promising defender in the same team, going all the way back to Charlie Young in that wonderful 5-1 drubbing of Liverpool in 1976.
From the first moment I knew Balaban was shite though.
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Baker had a good game against Chelsea last season. In fact, even Joe Bennett did.
Okore is younger than both of those, so he'll still have his ups and downs. You would get that with his age anyway, but adapting to a different league makes it doubly tough.
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Baker had a good game against Chelsea last season. In fact, even Joe Bennett did.
Okore is younger than both of those, so he'll still have his ups and downs. You would get that with his age anyway, but adapting to a different league makes it doubly tough.
when Baker doesn't have to man mark he's fine. When there are two forwards he's awful and especially if the forward has any speed or mobility. He has little ability to read the game and is quite reactionary.
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Didier Six?
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He looked fairly good in that short time. Nothing more. That's not me being a doom-monger that's me giving a genuinely honest opinion. I also thought that both Clark and Baker looked good at the beginning of the season though. My main concern is that he doesn't look like a good partner for Vlaar to me. Neither particularly like attacking the ball (both preferring to drop off and sweep) and both are more comfortable playing on the right hand side of a pairing.
Agree with the point you're making. I'd say that the answer lies in how we line up next season. Like Hodgson at the world cup, if the defenders are clearly not our strongest suit and the FB are better attacking than defending, I'd be playingg three at the back and using the FB as wingbacks. This would actually accommodate the stengths of Okore and Vlaar quite well, but it would mean playing either Clark or Senderos on the left of the three.
In fact, Senderos at left CB with a sweeper might work quite well ...
In regard to the point about having faith in kids ... but Barry's assured calmness and Clark's panic-stricken lack of composure are surely products of their footballing upbringing?
A really good observation and comparison. Clark should, however, come out of the 'panic' zone at some point, hopefully better. Okore shouldn't suffer so much from being 'thrown in at the deep end' because his experience as an international player and one that has had some dcecent European football should get him through that.
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Baker had a good game against Chelsea last season. In fact, even Joe Bennett did.
Okore is younger than both of those, so he'll still have his ups and downs. You would get that with his age anyway, but adapting to a different league makes it doubly tough.
when Baker doesn't have to man mark he's fine. When there are two forwards he's awful and especially if the forward has any speed or mobility. He has little ability to read the game and is quite reactionary.
He's fine as long as he isn't asked to pass it with any consistency, he seems to panic on the ball. My brother calls him '50p head' so although he is strong in the air and can win the ball you can never be sure which direction it will go.
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Baker had a good game against Chelsea last season. In fact, even Joe Bennett did.
Okore is younger than both of those, so he'll still have his ups and downs. You would get that with his age anyway, but adapting to a different league makes it doubly tough.
when Baker doesn't have to man mark he's fine. When there are two forwards he's awful and especially if the forward has any speed or mobility. He has little ability to read the game and is quite reactionary.
He's fine as long as he isn't asked to pass it with any consistency, he seems to panic on the ball. My brother calls him '50p head' so although he is strong in the air and can win the ball you can never be sure which direction it will go.
you do wonder how some players make it through all of the levels and obstacles to get to the top level of their profession. Baker is just one example of so many players who over the years defy all logic. It's one thing watching football at League 2 level where some things you just have to accept, but at the top level you have to wonder what the pros in the game see vs us fans. I know it's not the same and there are things that we might not appreciate but our eyes don't always lie.
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Don't get all the baker abuse ! Is it vogue to slate him ? He ain't perfect but look at the shit in front of him and either side !
He had a decent run of about 8 games last season where he was really good. Cut the guy some slack.
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Don't get all the baker abuse ! Is it vogue to slate him ? He ain't perfect but look at the shit in front of him and either side !
He had a decent run of about 8 games last season where he was really good. Cut the guy some slack.
Agreed. Baker is courageous and strong in the air, and composure will improve with experience/maturity.
The reality these last two seasons was he should have been a bit part player, our fourth centre half. Unfortunately for all concerned, a combination of injuries and our transfer policy have seen him become a first team regular before he was ready.
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Don't get all the baker abuse ! Is it vogue to slate him ? He ain't perfect but look at the shit in front of him and either side !
He had a decent run of about 8 games last season where he was really good. Cut the guy some slack.
Crikey, I'd never see it as Baker being the one surrounded by shit. He's managed to look consistently the worst player in our back four. He's nothing like good enough, I'm afraid. Neither is Clark, but even he's better than Baker.
He'd get cut more slack if he hadn't spent the best part of two seasons looking dreadful.
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Didier Six?
'The promise of his debut against Manchester United wasn't sustained.'
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Don't get all the baker abuse ! Is it vogue to slate him ? He ain't perfect but look at the shit in front of him and either side !
He had a decent run of about 8 games last season where he was really good. Cut the guy some slack.
In a word, no. He's not good enough. Constantly poor on the ball, constantly pulled out of position, doesn't know how to use his strength properly and makes a number of mistakes each game. He doesn't look to me like he is learning from those mistakes either. 5th choice for me on our current squad and could do with a season in the Championship to see if he can develop.
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Baker also seems to be made out of paper mâché . I can't remember a player who goes down injured as often as he does. More often than not he injures himself by going in for challenges with far too much momentum!
Unfortunately, that leaked report from the Palace scouts had Baker in a nutshell, with something along the lines of "strong in the air but regularly caught on his heels on the ground. A weak link."
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Baker trying to control the ball is like seeing someone inexperienced with chopsticks flail over a slippery dumpling.
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Mmmmm dumplings.
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I'm sure confidence played a part in his poor performances last season. Had Lambert brought in a centre back instead of Holt after Christmas, he might have been taken out of the firing line. Baker got worse as the season drew to a close. However, is Senderos a better player than Baker? Not sure.
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Senderos is at the World Cup as a member of the eighth ranked team in the world when the seedings were done.
Baker is.......well, let's hope he's having a nice holiday somewhere.
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Ranked 8th? Blimey. Didn't know that. Still, Senderos isn't a regular starter for them. I really wish him well at Villa but can't help thinking he won't add much more than what we already have. I really hope I'm wrong.
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I can't believe we're even having the discussion about Baker. He just isn't good enough right now and needs redemption elsewhere (either on loan or permanently).
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Whilst I'd agree that it's not Baker's fault that he was thrust into the first team prematurely, it also has to be said that's he's looked as consistently out of his depth as any Villa player I can recall, maybe with the exception of Bernie Gallagher (McGrath rest his soul).
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Mmmmm dumplings.
Larf.
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Senderos is at the World Cup as a member of the eighth ranked team in the world when the seedings were done.
& his contribution so far has been to help them along the way to a 1-5 battering .
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5-2.
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Senderos is at the World Cup as a member of the eighth ranked team in the world when the seedings were done.
& his contribution so far has been to help them along the way to a 1-5 battering .
5-2.
Is that game still going on?
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I can't believe we're even having the discussion about Baker. He just isn't good enough right now and needs redemption elsewhere (either on loan or permanently).
Exactly, although I'd remove 'right now'. I don't think he'll ever be good enough, that's not a criticism of his character or anything. I hope he succeeds at a lower level, but he's not good enough for the Premier League.
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Ranked 8th? Blimey. Didn't know that. Still, Senderos isn't a regular starter for them. I really wish him well at Villa but can't help thinking he won't add much more than what we already have. I really hope I'm wrong.
Switzerland's ranking of 8th is partly due to the complicated FIFA ranking system which I think is based on results, the ranking of the opponent and the importance of the match (tournament games have more ranking than qualifiers, which in turn have more ranking than friendlies).
At the time of the draw last December I read that Brazil were ranked 11th in the world, and Switzerland were 7th, above Italy, for example. Judicious use of friendlies is one factor in this - choosing the right opponents to gain maximum points and putting out a strong rather than an experimental team to ensure victory.
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Factoring in friendly results into FIFA rankings is mad and misleading . See England for example who are one of the worlds best form friendly sides but come a "real" game we are a joke !
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Ranked 8th? Blimey. Didn't know that. Still, Senderos isn't a regular starter for them. I really wish him well at Villa but can't help thinking he won't add much more than what we already have. I really hope I'm wrong.
Switzerland's ranking of 8th is partly due to the complicated FIFA ranking system which I think is based on results, the ranking of the opponent and the importance of the match (tournament games have more ranking than qualifiers, which in turn have more ranking than friendlies).
At the time of the draw last December I read that Brazil were ranked 11th in the world, and Switzerland were 7th, above Italy, for example. Judicious use of friendlies is one factor in this - choosing the right opponents to gain maximum points and putting out a strong rather than an experimental team to ensure victory.
Switzerland should be praised for taking that approach.
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Ranked 8th? Blimey. Didn't know that. Still, Senderos isn't a regular starter for them. I really wish him well at Villa but can't help thinking he won't add much more than what we already have. I really hope I'm wrong.
Switzerland's ranking of 8th is partly due to the complicated FIFA ranking system which I think is based on results, the ranking of the opponent and the importance of the match (tournament games have more ranking than qualifiers, which in turn have more ranking than friendlies).
At the time of the draw last December I read that Brazil were ranked 11th in the world, and Switzerland were 7th, above Italy, for example. Judicious use of friendlies is one factor in this - choosing the right opponents to gain maximum points and putting out a strong rather than an experimental team to ensure victory.
Switzerland should be praised for taking that approach.
If I were at the FA it would certainly be high in my thinking too, TV.
The FA however need to raise revenue to pay off Wembley so focus on crowd pleasing opposition which tends to be tougher teams - Chile and Germany last autumn spring to mind. The manager also seems to be under constant pressure not to "overplay" top players so we use friendlies as a means of bedding in new players and formations (ho ho ho) with less focus on the result.
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What practical effect does a higher FIFA ranking actually have for a country, though? Other than prestige, I mean?
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Tournament seedings? Doesn't guarantee that you'll end up in an easy group, but you're better off going in as top seeds than not.
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tournament seedings.
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Yes Switzerland were top seeds. Even with France as second seeds they still got a pretty easy group
We'd have got a much easier group if we'd been seeded top
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well done big Phil today. I thought he was very good and made life quite easy for his partner Ron Vlaar. Vlaar looks so much more composed with an experienced defender next to him. He's not cleaning up for Baker, and it allows him to stay in his position.
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Yeah he was superb. I like the way he and Vlaar were fist bumping each other as well. Solid partnership.
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As much as all are excited by Okore, he's a young kid with tremendous promise. It would good to allow him time work his way into the first XI. Senderos won't be brilliant every week but he'll be solid most of the time. A good CB partner will be critical to his form.
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Agreed. Although I find the idea of Vlaar, Okore & Senderos all on top form fighting for places to be a very exciting prospect :)
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According to my (Swiss) wife, the correct way to pronounce his surname is to emphasise the second syllable and say it 'air'.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
Stoke is the common denominator, weird, it's where it all went tits up when 2-0 up & cruising in 2009.
Simply consider the monumental history altering impact of that last Stoke goal. All of the things that came of that. Moscow fallout, crushing decline from what appeared sure CL qualification, players leaving, manager walking out, near financial ruin, immense fan disillusionment. So many horrible things in large part down to "that goal"
There was a Stoke fan sitting next to me that day. I sussed him when they scored their first, spotting a clenched fist out of the corner of my eye. But I didn't mind, he'd behaved all game. When they equalised he gave himself away a little bit more, with a supressed 'yessss'.
If I'd have known how it was all going to pan out I'd have chinned him.
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One day, many years in the future, wise men as yet unborn will crack one of the great mysteries of the universe, namely what happened ten minutes after kick-off against Stoke to turn a team who were playing well into the bag of shite that finished the season.
Stoke is the common denominator, weird, it's where it all went tits up when 2-0 up & cruising in 2009.
Simply consider the monumental history altering impact of that last Stoke goal. All of the things that came of that. Moscow fallout, crushing decline from what appeared sure CL qualification, players leaving, manager walking out, near financial ruin, immense fan disillusionment. So many horrible things in large part down to "that goal"
There was a Stoke fan sitting next to me that day. I sussed him when they scored their first, spotting a clenched fist out of the corner of my eye. But I didn't mind, he'd behaved all game. When they equalised he gave himself away a little bit more, with a supressed 'yessss'.
If I'd have known how it was all going to pan out I'd have chinned him.
Walking out of the ground that day was the most depressed I think I've been after a game at any point in the last 20 years. I think everyone else felt the same, we all knew what it meant, really.
I fucking hate Stoke.
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Played Swiss Phil today. As an ex centre half, I know a clean sheet for a defender feels like a hatrick to a striker.
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He had a very good game yesterday. Pleased for him. Okore may struggle to displace him if his form is consistent.
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Okore will turn out to be our best defender. Hope his fitness is ok - that's my only worry
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Okore will turn out to be our best defender. Hope his fitness is ok - that's my only worry
That's what I think as well.
As for Senderos, an Arsenal supporting lad I know reckons he is utter shite so surprised how well he did yesterday really.
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Okore will turn out to be our best defender. Hope his fitness is ok - that's my only worry
That's what I think as well.
As for Senderos, an Arsenal supporting lad I know reckons he is utter shite so surprised how well he did yesterday really.
Most Arsenal supporters don't know their arse from their elbow. Pay no attention.
They think that anyone who doesn't get sold for Ł20m is shite and not worthy.
He's an upgrade on Baker and Clark at the moment because he's at least as talented and not got the experience of being shellshocked over the last two years.
Hopefully they can be rehabilitated by being used sparingly alongside some experienced defensive partners. Same goes for Lowton and even maybe Bennett.
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Senderos always looked ok to me and then he'd make a horrible error, if he cuts those errors out he can be good. Loved his reaction at the final whistle yesterday.
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I said when he signed that he'll mostly have solid games but he'll throw in the odd clanger too. We may as we'll accept that and not get too upset when it happens. It's what we are getting. But I genuinely believe he will give us PL quality performances most weeks and in doing so improve us overall. He won't make the constant errors made by Baker. And he does two other things. 1) allow Vlaar to worry about his game and 2) allow Okore to develop without being rushed in. Okore is the future but easing him in and also Donacien will serve us well in the long run.
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I said when he signed that he'll mostly have solid games but he'll throw in the odd clanger too. We may as we'll accept that and not get too upset when it happens. It's what we are getting. But I genuinely believe he will give us PL quality performances most weeks and in doing so improve us overall. He won't make the constant errors made by Baker. And he does two other things. 1) allow Vlaar to worry about his game and 2) allow Okore to develop without being rushed in. Okore is the future but easing him in and also Donacien will serve us well in the long run.
Absolutely, and viewed that way, it's a very sensible signing. If we can maintain the defensive solidity we saw yesterday, then the younger and more inexperienced players can learn from watching our defenders, rather than constantly being in the firing line themselves.
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I said when he signed that he'll mostly have solid games but he'll throw in the odd clanger too. We may as we'll accept that and not get too upset when it happens. It's what we are getting. But I genuinely believe he will give us PL quality performances most weeks and in doing so improve us overall. He won't make the constant errors made by Baker. And he does two other things. 1) allow Vlaar to worry about his game and 2) allow Okore to develop without being rushed in. Okore is the future but easing him in and also Donacien will serve us well in the long run.
Came here to post the exact same thing. He might not be great but hes a lot more solid than his predecessors, therefore the team is better with him in it.
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Senderos always looked ok to me and then he'd make a horrible error, if he cuts those errors out he can be good. Loved his reaction at the final whistle yesterday.
I noticed that reaction and loved it.
He probably feels he has something to prove to all the doubters, inc me!
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Senderos always looked ok to me and then he'd make a horrible error, if he cuts those errors out he can be good. Loved his reaction at the final whistle yesterday.
I noticed that reaction and loved it.
He probably feels he has something to prove to all the doubters, inc me!
They've all got something to prove to us!
Delighted with yesterdays performance overall - keep it going lads
As long as Senderos performs in a Villa shirt I don't care what he did before
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Any links to the Senderos full-time reaction? I was at a wedding all day yesterday and have seen nothing until the goal on SSn about 15 minutes ago.
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Any links to the Senderos full-time reaction? I was at a wedding all day yesterday and have seen nothing until the goal on SSn about 15 minutes ago.
Beeb iPlayer, perhaps? It was on MOTD. Went up to Ron like he'd won a Cup for the first time in 58 years.
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thank you
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I don't think MOTD is on iplayer yet. And as we were last it will be brief highlights so I doubt it will show the full-time reaction of players. Youtube will be a better bet for that i'd guess as someone in the crowd may have filmed it.
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I don't think MOTD is on iplayer yet. And as we were last it will be brief highlights so I doubt it will show the full-time reaction of players. Youtube will be a better bet for that i'd guess as someone in the crowd may have filmed it.
Nah, its there, they comment on it.
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I don't think MOTD is on iplayer yet. And as we were last it will be brief highlights so I doubt it will show the full-time reaction of players. Youtube will be a better bet for that i'd guess as someone in the crowd may have filmed it.
I watched it last night and they did show the reaction of Swiss Phil and Ron Vlaar at the final whistle. A great sight.
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I don't think MOTD is on iplayer yet. And as we were last it will be brief highlights so I doubt it will show the full-time reaction of players. Youtube will be a better bet for that i'd guess as someone in the crowd may have filmed it.
I watched it last night and they did show the reaction of Swiss Phil and Ron Vlaar at the final whistle. A great sight.
It's great to see that sort of thing. Whatever Phil may have lacked in consistency over the years he makes up for in first pumping passion. He's no wallflower. Seems to get on well with Ron.
It doesn't surprise me at all that Senderos was given the nod over Okore either. We need experience and yesterday was a game that required a good deal of nous at the back. Okore will come good, but he's got some way to go. Senderos isn't the joke some make him out to be either. He's been there and done it.
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Okore was injured though.
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I wanted to give him a big manly hug as well
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Okore was injured though.
I still suspect that Senderos will start as first choice (in a back 4). Okore was unfortunate last season in that his injury robbed him of a whole year of development. I think Lambo will do what was planned a year ago and ease him in. For me, Okore isn't greatly dominent in the air, but he's also a little dangerous on the ball. He can sometimes take liberties. I think for the time being Lambo will have Vlaar and Senderos together. Two big bastards who are no nonsense.
Okore will get his chance though, but I think we'll see him firstly appearing in games we play a back 3.
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I remember hearing a Pat Nevin interview just after we signed Okore saying that he would make David Luiz resemble an old fashioned English no-nonsense centre half - exciting times ahead!!!
I look forward to seeing him play regularly
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In Garth Crook's team of the week. Nice to see him doing well and getting some recognition.
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I always thought he was left-footed and would see him on the left of the two and Vlaar the right. Against Newcastle it was the other way round.
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He's been excellent so far.
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He's been excellent so far.
Not only that, he and Vlaar look like a partnership. We haven't had that since the earlier period of Dunne and Collins.
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Very interesting to read Lambert's comments on his organisational skills being a big reason for bringing him in.
He apparently had 2 clean sheets in his opening games for Fulham last season, so it could all change.
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He's not going to be like this all season. I hope that there isn't disproportionate criticism of him when he dips below this form when he has a bad game. So far he's been very composed but that is as much him as a constituent of those around him. He's been a good signing and gives Okore a bit more time to recover and importantly keeps out Baker who is an accident waiting to happen.
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He's not going to be like this all season. I hope that there isn't disproportionate criticism of him when he dips below this form when he has a bad game. So far he's been very composed but that is as much him as a constituent of those around him. He's been a good signing and gives Okore a bit more time to recover and importantly keeps out Baker who is an accident waiting to happen.
He might be though, we're all judging him on his displays for Arsenal and Fulham, but Arsenal have a happy knack of making good defenders look shite by how open they are, and Fulham were shocking in general.
Now he's playing with a partner he can rely on and with a bit of protection in front of him, he might just produce his best form and fulfill his potential.
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
Anyone is capable of doing that. Unfortunately being a defender you usually get punished by a mistake.
He has started the season very well and long may it continue. How he leads and 'coaches' the back line has impressed me the most
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Take a bow Big Phil. Should have scored, helped his defensive partner who also had a great game, but importantly used all of his experience, savvy and muscle to harass and intimidate Balotelli who has historically killed us. We'd be rightly fucked off if the opposition CB treated our main forward like that, but by the end he completely nullified a major threat . Well done and huge reason for our great start this season.
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Take a bow Big Phil. Should have scored, helped his defensive partner who also had a great game, but importantly used all of his experience, savvy and muscle to harass and intimidate Balotelli who has historically killed us. We'd be rightly fucked off if the opposition CB treated our main forward like that, but by the end he completely nullified a major threat . Well done and huge reason for our great start this season.
We have been screaming out for a "mean machine" for years - step up Senderos P! The Swiss Puyol - brilliant!
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He's been excellent so far, keep it up Philippe.
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He's been excellent so far, keep it up Philippe.
X 2.
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
To be fair that's an improvement on Baker over the last two years.
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
To be fair that's an improvement on Baker over the last two years.
Indeed.
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Can't believe how well Swiss Phil has started and what a difference he has made to us defensively and those around him. His desire and enthusiasm to keep a clean sheet is a delight to see. Long may it continue.
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Should have scored twice today but I won't let that affect my joining in, well done Big Phil!
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I love the way he celebrates each win. He looks like a man who knows damn well who knows what relegation feels like and has no intention of ever experiencing it again.
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Should have scored twice today but I won't let that affect my joining in, well done Big Phil!
A hat-trick if he hadn't let Henderson get in front of him.
Another signing which I thought wouldn't turn out great, but so far so good.
I'm liking being proved wrong so far this season. It feels nice.
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I thought we'd been ripped off paying nothing for him. He's been great so far.
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He also seems to bring a very good "in it together" attitude to the team. He's only been there a short while but there's always pictures of him with team mates geeing them up and/or celebrating.
It's good!
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Maybe he's on a massive win bonus .
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
If he's good 90% of the time then that's bloody good. Rio Ferdinand always made mistakes throughout his career (never as good as he was made out to be). Look at David James. Great GK, but prone to complete daftness.
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Maybe he's on a massive win bonus .
Let's hope he's an extremely rich man come the end of the season!
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He looks like an absolute bargain so far.
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Let's not get over excited. Senderos has always been able to look good 90% of the time and then make an absolute fuck up.
Every defender makes mistakes. Kompany did some doozies last season, didn't stop him being rated one of the top defenders.
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Any defender that looks good 90% of the time is a good defender. Because even that defender can look great as part of the other 10% as well as throw in the odd blunder. If he does that on a free at PL level he'll have been a steal.
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Is it Sohn-dor-os then? That's what Jonathan Pierce is calling him
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Dunno but Lambert spoke to Hitzveld sp before buying him, who told him he is an incredibly good talker and organiser. It showed today big time. Needs to not kick people off the bsll though. It will cost us at some point.
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Delighted for the lad. Looks like he is happy with us.
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Gotta love how much he celebrates a win.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/EnglishPride2004/01a_zpsa0db91b6.jpg)
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If he keeps up this level 90% of the time we'll have a very good player on our hands.
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He seems very happy so far! He has a shit load of commitment and heart
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Actually thought he looked a bit iffy today, still had a good laugh when he kicked Mario! ;) Things could have been a bit different if the ref had spotted that of course.
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Three game ban coming for violent conduct I reckon. Shame, was fantastic today.
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Since when is a trip a 3 match ban? Calm down it's absolutely nothing.
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The bigger picture for me is not the kick itself but the message it sends. I realize it was a bit silly but for too long we've been treated like everyone else's doormat. Now we have a back line that will hand it out, even if it costs us a yellow card or two. The back four today were all strong in the air and physically dominant. It's been a good while since we have been able to say that.
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The bigger picture for me is not the kick itself but the message it sends. I realize it was a bit silly but for too long we've been treated like everyone else's doormat. Now we have a back line that will hand it out, even if it costs us a yellow card or two. The back four today were all strong in the air and physically dominant. It's been a good while since we have been able to say that.
Spot on, he was a niggly, nasty bugger yesterday, and that's EXACTLY what we've been missing.
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
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The bigger picture for me is not the kick itself but the message it sends. I realize it was a bit silly but for too long we've been treated like everyone else's doormat. Now we have a back line that will hand it out, even if it costs us a yellow card or two. The back four today were all strong in the air and physically dominant. It's been a good while since we have been able to say that.
Spot on, he was a niggly, nasty bugger yesterday, and that's EXACTLY what we've been missing.
Yes, agree totally and I made this point on the post-match thread. I was debating with Villa fans in the pub in Chichester how last season for example, and before that, we used to just shrug our shoulders and walk away when we didn't get a pen or had a dodgy one awarded against us. We used to just fold under the slightest pressure in most games. I know one shouldn't condone being dirty or being in the ref's face and how it might be honourable not to be like that because we are Villa etc, but I think we'd all rather see us fronting up to some of these teams as we did yesterday
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
It's a bit of nous. Everyone knows the best way to nulify Mario is to wind him up. He'll do one of two things, he'll either do something silly like get himself sent off, or he'll cut a frustrated, miserable figure. If you give him the freedom to express himself and build up a bit of confidence he can destroy you, but we needled him all game. He had to drift to the middle of the pitch or out to the left just to touch the ball, and created nothing.
That said, doing the same to Costa might not be quite as effective. He seems more level headed (which granted isn't difficult to be in comparison to Mario) and he's shit hot right now. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he gets injured before then, or Jose decides to rest him.
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His experience at the back gives us that solidity we have lacked for a fair few seasons now. I hope he keeps up the good form as he's looking like our best acquisition this season so far.
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He's doing great. It does make you wonder though. We've been crying out for an experienced defender to play alongside vlaar for two years. Even if just on a free. Surely if we'd done that the last two seasons wouldn't have been so hairy
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
It's a bit of nous. Everyone knows the best way to nulify Mario is to wind him up. He'll do one of two things, he'll either do something silly like get himself sent off, or he'll cut a frustrated, miserable figure. If you give him the freedom to express himself and build up a bit of confidence he can destroy you, but we needled him all game. He had to drift to the middle of the pitch or out to the left just to touch the ball, and created nothing.
That said, doing the same to Costa might not be quite as effective. He seems more level headed (which granted isn't difficult to be in comparison to Mario) and he's shit hot right now. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he gets injured before then, or Jose decides to rest him.
Costa is anything but level headed.
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...or Jose decides to rest him.
Not in a match that is the battle of the top two he won't... :)
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He's got to be careful though, another ref would've seen that and maybe sent him off. He did similar v Newcastle didn't he, lad got away from him and he just tripped him over.
Fair to say though so far he's completely surpassed my expectations.
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I'm just delighted that he's not rubbish as I was told numerous times by sniggering non villa fans all summer.
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Three game ban coming for violent conduct I reckon.
Why? Even if the ref had seen the trip it would have been a yellow card at most.
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It is true there is a time and place, and player to use that sort of tactic as long as he keeps it in check then it can work for us. So far he has made a difference but lets wait and see til we are really tested before we start claiming that our defenisve problems are sorted out.
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Three game ban coming for violent conduct I reckon.
Why? Even if the ref had seen the trip it would have been a yellow card at most.
Surely it was just an accidental coming together? ;)
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I totally agree that we have been too nice and naive in recent times. We didn't win the big prizes back in the early eighties without the likes of Evans, McNaught and Withe being able to both take it and dish it out.
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He needs to be a little subtler than the foot-flick he attempted yesterday IMO
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
It's a bit of nous. Everyone knows the best way to nulify Mario is to wind him up. He'll do one of two things, he'll either do something silly like get himself sent off, or he'll cut a frustrated, miserable figure. If you give him the freedom to express himself and build up a bit of confidence he can destroy you, but we needled him all game. He had to drift to the middle of the pitch or out to the left just to touch the ball, and created nothing.
That said, doing the same to Costa might not be quite as effective. He seems more level headed (which granted isn't difficult to be in comparison to Mario) and he's shit hot right now. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he gets injured before then, or Jose decides to rest him.
Costa is anything but level headed.
That is true...but in comparison to Balotelli...I'd also say Costa is a player more likely to get fired up and then pelt 3 past you if you wind him up, before going on to nut someone in the tunnel probably. Mario will sit on the ground sulking at the ref, then let some fireworks off in his hotel later in the day to relieve the tension.
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He needs to be a little subtler than the foot-flick he attempted yesterday IMO
I was going to say, maybe Keane will have a word with him and tell him not to be so blatant. But then I wonder whether Keano might just say "next time slice him in fecking half" instead. Probably the latter. ha ha.
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In the ground I bellowed for Balotelli to get up, the soft twat. Having seen it again on TV, I still think the same. Big Phil wouldn't trip anybody, just look at his sad face! How could a face like that belong to somebody who would trip and kick somebody. For shame on such a suggestion.
I also liked Hutton and his cruncher on Balotelli too. We are collectively a lot older, wiser and meaner.
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
It's a bit of nous. Everyone knows the best way to nulify Mario is to wind him up. He'll do one of two things, he'll either do something silly like get himself sent off, or he'll cut a frustrated, miserable figure. If you give him the freedom to express himself and build up a bit of confidence he can destroy you, but we needled him all game. He had to drift to the middle of the pitch or out to the left just to touch the ball, and created nothing.
That said, doing the same to Costa might not be quite as effective. He seems more level headed (which granted isn't difficult to be in comparison to Mario) and he's shit hot right now. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he gets injured before then, or Jose decides to rest him.
Costa is more like a rabid dog than even Suarez ! He pulls off so much underhanded crap in a game and I would love a defender like Senderos put the fear of God into him ! I just hope Vlaar is back in time for Chelsea because a physco like Costa will celebrate early Christmas against Baker or Clarke.
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Swiss Phil's treatment of Mario was straight out of the Roy Keane school of winding up your opponents, the next guy who will be treated to this will be Chelsea's Costa.
As has been stated fed up of Aston Villa nice guys, more like Aston Villa nice but dim, now we seem capable of giving a bit out, he may need to be a bit more sneaky with it, but John Terry does seem to get away with it and has done for how many years.
Go get them Swiss Phil.
It's a bit of nous. Everyone knows the best way to nulify Mario is to wind him up. He'll do one of two things, he'll either do something silly like get himself sent off, or he'll cut a frustrated, miserable figure. If you give him the freedom to express himself and build up a bit of confidence he can destroy you, but we needled him all game. He had to drift to the middle of the pitch or out to the left just to touch the ball, and created nothing.
That said, doing the same to Costa might not be quite as effective. He seems more level headed (which granted isn't difficult to be in comparison to Mario) and he's shit hot right now. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he gets injured before then, or Jose decides to rest him.
Costa is more like a rabid dog than even Suarez ! He pulls off so much underhanded crap in a game and I would love a defender like Senderos put the fear of God into him ! I just hope Vlaar is back in time for Chelsea because a physco like Costa will celebrate early Christmas against Baker or Clarke.
Vlaar kept Costa in his pocket the last time they played. I would hope that will give him the psychological edge next time out and we can wind him up.
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He needs to be a little subtler than the foot-flick he attempted yesterday IMO
I was going to say, maybe Keane will have a word with him and tell him not to be so blatant. But then I wonder whether Keano might just say "next time slice him in fecking half" instead. Probably the latter. ha ha.
I'm sure Bent was getting instructions from Scott Marshall before he came on, and Roy Keane came over and said 'fuck it, just go run around'
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Could big Phil become a cult hero? I really like him.
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I think the ref will have been warned to watch him closely on Saturday. I'd be surprised if they don't pick up the slightest thing, he'll be walking a tightrope I'd imagine.
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I think the ref will have been warned to watch him closely on Saturday. I'd be surprised if they don't pick up the slightest thing, he'll be walking a tightrope I'd imagine.
Time for Vlaar/Baker to take up the challenge then. Classic diversion tactics.
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I reckon refs are privately chuckling because of how much of a pain in the balls Balotelli was at times while at Man City. The whole matter is being blown way out of proportion and is being seen as a national scandal because little Aston Villa took to a media darling team. Senderos put it best after the game when he said it was nothing at all, and just part of the game, and even Rodgers admitted as much by telling his team they got beaten by men (paraphrasing off course).
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I reckon refs are privately chuckling because of how much of a pain in the balls Balotelli was at times while at Man City. The whole matter is being blown way out of proportion and is being seen as a national scandal because little Aston Villa took to a media darling team. Senderos put it best after the game when he said it was nothing at all, and just part of the game, and even Rodgers admitted as much by telling his team they got beaten by men (paraphrasing off course).
To be entirely honest, it really isn't.
It got a bit of coverage on MOTD and Sky's post match stuff, but it has been largely forgotten. It was mentioned in most press reports of the game, but then again, it would be.
I think it's a bit unfair to suggest there is some sort of media disgust at it. It was just the sort of "oh, that's a bit naughty" comments you'd expect any player to have got in those circumstances, and nothing more.
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You didn't take what I said literally did you? I didn't mean the it made the 10 o'clock news or a feature story on CNN
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I thought that on the whole it was laughed at in a sort of "Welcome back to the Premier League" way, which surprised me because normally in those circumstances it's get the pitchforks out. Maybe we've become media darlings.
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I think it helped that the "victim" was Mario Balotelli. Had Senderos been doing that to Sterling for example, we'd not hear the end of it all season. There'd have been burning effigies of Swiss Phil and his magnificently shaped bonce.
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I think it helped that the "victim" was Mario Balotelli. Had Senderos been doing that to Sterling for example, we'd not hear the end of it all season. There'd have been burning effigies of Swiss Phil and his magnificently shaped bonce.
You're probably right there.
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I think it helped that the "victim" was Mario Balotelli. Had Senderos been doing that to Sterling for example, we'd not hear the end of it all season. There'd have been burning effigies of Swiss Phil and his magnificently shaped bonce.
I said the same the other day. I felt a bit sorry for Mad Mario, because most other players and there would have been much more outrage.
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You didn't take what I said literally did you? I didn't mean the it made the 10 o'clock news or a feature story on CNN
No, I didn't think that at all, I am just pointing out that where you think it is getting a lot of coverage (relatively speaking) because it is someone other than the media darlings, you're actually wrong, as it has had pretty much zero coverage bar a couple of comments on match of the day and in the match reports.
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According to one of the red top rags, he limped out of Switzerland's game against Slovenia and could be out for a couple of weeks.
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According to one of the red top rags, he limped out of Switzerland's game against Slovenia and could be out for a couple of weeks.
(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web03/2012/5/18/17/anigif_enhanced-buzz-5527-1337377290-5.gif)
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FFS!
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people wanted to see Okore. This might be the opportunity. It wouldn't be balanced with Clark and Baker, so I imagine if Vlaar isn't fit Okore comes in for Senderos next to Baker at Everton.
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I wouldn't worry, we've got Clark to come in and boss the defence.
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Gulp!
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people wanted to see Okore. This might be the opportunity. It wouldn't be balanced with Clark and Baker, so I imagine if Vlaar isn't fit Okore comes in for Senderos next to Baker at Everton.
Presumably Vlaar will be back so just means Baker stays in the side longer. Doesn't help with build up play but hopefully the defence won't be affected too much.
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It's a wafer thin squad of genuine top flight players so any injury to a good player seems like a real blow, Vlaar and Baker playing together doesn't fill me with the dread it did last season although I still hope Okore and Vlaar is the partnership we are regularly playing as the season progresses.
Is there a thread with general news on how our players are doing playing for their various countries this week and next?
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Is vlaar likely to be back for next week ? If not it could be back to the Clark / Baker arrangement assuming Okore is not fancied .
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We must be the only side that has 3, at least decent, international CH and still have the prospect of seeing Baker and Clark play together.
I know we're the only team that can play Baker & Clark but you know what I mean.
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Sorry to see him injured, but if Vlaar is back, should be ok with Baker alongside him
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The talk before the City game was that Vlaar would be back after the international break. Unless there's a set-back that's going to be the case.
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Just a wake up call to all the posters before the season started that looked at the squad and said, all stay fit and we will be fine.
We have a decent 14 maybe 15 after that we are paper thin and it highlights again investment in the squad is needed desperately.
Injuries always happen and to the Villa more than others or so it appears.
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The talk before the City game was that Vlaar would be back after the international break. Unless there's a set-back that's going to be the case.
The track record on Vlaar iant great though. He always takes longer than Lambert intimates, rarely shorter
Given Okore hasn't made the bench of late it would be a big step up to put him in
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Given the improvement since last season, it would be a disappointment to see a Baker/Clark partnership again anytime soon.
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It would be awful, TBH. Might as well get Bennett back in the team, and throw Bacuna back in at RB too.
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Given the improvement since last season, it would be a disappointment to see a Baker/Clark partnership again anytime soon.
And if we do, it'll be further proof that something isn't working out for Okore, for whatever reason.
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As they're all a bit suspect why not stick the three of them in? Baker, Clark, Okore. We play so defensively anyway so drop Richardson and go 5-3-2 or 5-4-1.
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As they're all a bit suspect why not stick the three of them in? Baker, Clark, Okore. We play so defensively anyway so drop Richardson and go 5-3-2 or 5-4-1.
Yeah good idea lets drop one of our most consistently good players this season.
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I said Richardson ;o)
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Given the improvement since last season, it would be a disappointment to see a Baker/Clark partnership again anytime soon.
And if we do, it'll be further proof that something isn't working out for Okore, for whatever reason.
I agree.
Very peculiar state of affairs.
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Jores Okore, what's the story? Somebody must know.
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Jores Okore, what's the story? Somebody must know.
where's the Lanzarote pool man when he's needed?
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Given the improvement since last season, it would be a disappointment to see a Baker/Clark partnership again anytime soon.
And if we do, it'll be further proof that something isn't working out for Okore, for whatever reason.
I agree.
Very peculiar state of affairs.
It's very strange and a concern.
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Jores Okore, what's the story? Somebody must know.
where's the Lanzarote pool man when he's needed?
He is dealing with a freakishly large turd floating in a Puerta del Carmen swimming pool.
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Oh joy.
Swiss team doctor Cuno Wetzel said: "Philippe has a thigh muscle strain. We'll have to see how it reacts.
"Normally a player is out of action for some time with a muscle injury of this type."
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Given the improvement since last season, it would be a disappointment to see a Baker/Clark partnership again anytime soon.
And if we do, it'll be further proof that something isn't working out for Okore, for whatever reason.
I agree.
Very peculiar state of affairs.
It's very strange and a concern.
Wasn't he with the Danish squad, but didn't play?
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Called up to the squad, as Agger was injured.
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Jores Okore, what's the story? Somebody must know.
This could be his chant. To the Oasis tune. he needs a little time to get fit, get fit. ;D ;D ;D
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Jores Okore, what's the story? Somebody must know.
This could be his chant. To the Oasis tune. he needs a little time to get fit, get fit. ;D ;D ;D
I think Brian had this in mind to be honest.
What's the story with Jores Okore, wouldn't you like to know?
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Where is the third Mitchell brother?
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Injured.
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Ta - had a quick look on physio room but couldn't see him mentioned.
Any news of his return date?
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Thigh injury so who knows. With our luck probably the next 6 months out.
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I'm sure on the radio beforehand one of the reporters said Hutton wouldn't be back before the year is out aswell.
Christ almighty.
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I'm sure on the radio beforehand one of the reporters said Hutton wouldn't be back before the year is out aswell.
Christ almighty.
That's terrible if true. I went on record saying Hutton was one of the worst players I'd seen in a Villa shirt but I'll hold my hands up and say he's now got an importance I never thought he would have. In fact, I'd have Hutton in at right back and Lowton at right wing and I think that side would be sorted.
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Ta - had a quick look on physio room but couldn't see him mentioned.
Any news of his return date?
He was on the bench on Monday wasn't he?
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Last I heard was that Hutton and Senderos wouldn't make today's game. If Hutton's situation has changed that would just about sum things up.
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Ta - had a quick look on physio room but couldn't see him mentioned.
Any news of his return date?
He was on the bench on Monday wasn't he?
Nope.
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Thigh injury so who knows. With our luck probably the next 6 months out.
Typical Villa injury. Drags on for months and never really goes away.
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Picked up a calf injury today.
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Picked up a calf injury today.
Yes. He is back with the club and will miss the 2 internationals. No news on how long he will be out yet.
What is the betting on Vlaar and Benteke also picking up injuries while they are away?
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Very likely for Vlaar
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Hands up who else isn't surprised at another injury?
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Hands up who else isn't surprised at another injury?
This new trend of getting injured while out injured is taking the piss a bit, though.
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Blimey so Senderos and baker already doubts for saints game ? All we need now is Polystyrene Ron to get a knock with the Cloggs and we are looking at Clark and Herd as CB's on MNF (assuming Okore isn't returned).
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Blimey so Senderos and baker already doubts for saints game ? All we need now is Polystyrene Ron to get a knock with the Cloggs and we are looking at Clark and Herd as CB's on MNF (assuming Okore isn't returned).
Herds out on loan isn't he?
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Is he ? Then we would be looking at Bacuna as RB and push Lowton alongside Clark. Bloody hell.
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Herd has arrived back from loan within the last few days.
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Herd has arrived back from loan within the last few days.
Didn't he pick up an injury or something? Or am I just getting confused with this ever mounting injury list?
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Fu*k me!
Should I let Lambert know I'm available but haven't played for 30 years?
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Fu*k me!
Should I let Lambert know I'm available but haven't played for 30 years?
I bet you could outrun Grant Holt though.
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Sendercrock
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Fu*k me!
Should I let Lambert know I'm available but haven't played for 30 years?
I bet you could outrun Grant Holt though.
Depends which food queue we're in!
;-)
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What's happened to Okore?
Why didn't Barry take the pen?
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Hands up who else isn't surprised at another injury?
I'm too scared to put my hand up in case I injure it.
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Hands up who else isn't surprised at another injury?
I'm too scared to put my hand up in case I injure it.
Sorry I'm out injured as well. I tore a calf muscle on Sunday and will be out of action for at least 2 months. So you will have to put up with Clark instead.
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In true Villa-stylee JD it will stretch for 5 or 6 months.
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In true Villa-stylee JD it will stretch for 5 or 6 months.
I hope not. I'm off to Hanmer at Christmas to go Mountain biking so I'm hoping it will be ok to at least do some easy tracks by then. The scans next week will tell me how bad the damage is.
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Express (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/537821/Paul-Lambert-Philippe-Senderos-Aston-Villa-Swiss-FA)
Furious Paul Lambert BLASTS Swiss FA over Philippe Senderos injury
PAUL LAMBERT has hit out at the Swiss FA after Aston Villa lost their key centre back Philippe Senderos for a month.
By: Ian Baker
Published: Thu, November 20, 2014
The 29-year-old broke down on international duty with his country with a calf problem only a week after returning from a thigh injury.
Senderos is now out for a month and Aston Villa boss Lambert is furious with the Swiss FA, accusing them of "mismanagement" after he immediately took part in full training for his country.
He said: “That's the one I'm not happy about at all, Philippe. He is the one which has annoyed me the most. He went away with his national team and if you look at his record he has only played six minute, against West Ham, for a month. He goes away with Switzerland and ends up pulling his calf in a training exercise.
“It's mismanagement from the FA in Switzerland. They should have been in dialogue and seen his record in the first place and that he didn't play for a month.
“It's OK for them to go away and think 'we have only lost a centre half' but we have lost a centre half for a month again, who has been a vital part of the team."
Lambert is also without Ron Vlaar and Nathan Baker for Monday's home game with Southampton.
He said: “We still have options but in Philippe's case it should have been avoided. He was totally fine when he came on in that little cameo role against West Ham.
“Jores Okore is just coming back from an injury but he's getting better. We have lost two experienced players who have been playing well.”
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More good news!
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Why was he allowed to go?
Surely the sensible thing to have done was to pull him out of the national squad, after all we pay his wages!
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Why was he allowed to go?
Surely the sensible thing to have done was to pull him out of the national squad, after all we pay his wages!
You could argue that he was fit when he went because he came on as sub in our last game and had it not been a qualifier he might pulled out. I'm not sure how much say a club manager has in these things.
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'Jores Okore is just coming back from injury'. Really Paul? He's been back quite along time.
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'Jores Okore is just coming back from injury'. Really Paul? He's been back quite along time.
I was told by a BH staffer he has been fit for weeks...
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He certainly seemed alright playing for Denmark in the previous international break.
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Fit maybe but given the seriousness of the injury, I'm not surprised they haven't just thrown him back into Premier League action.
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Daily Star (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/411377/Aston-Villa-Philipe-Senderos-international-managers-fitness-reports)
Aston Villa to give international managers fitness reports after Philipe Senderos injury
FURIOUS Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert will start to issue international managers with fitness reports on all his players when they get called up by their countries.
By Ian Baker / Published 20th November 2014
The Scot is seething after Philippe Senderos injured his calf on Switzerland international duty only days after returning to light training at Villa following a thigh problem.
The centre back, 29, is now out for a month and Lambert will take action in future to ensure there is no repeat.
The Villa boss said: "I think we will need to give them information now if they are not going to look at it.
"If someone has not played or trained for a month, you need to manage them.
"We need to make people aware of things - if that's what's going to happen to your player.
"I think they should have known he had not played a month before and only played six minutes against West Ham. Common knowledge tells you - you have to know - which guys have not done as much as other guys.
"Philippe was totally fine when he went there and I could have started him against West Ham.
"If you bring players in, you need to do your homework. I think he will be now out for a month.
"They won't pay his wages but we're forgetting that side, I've lost a centre half who has been playing really well. He's just come back from an injury and now he's out again.
"They'd known he was injured. They should have done their homework. They don't need us to tell them what he had done and what he needed to do."
Lambert now only has two fit centre backs for Monday's home game with Southampton - Jores Okore and Ciaran Clark - and has suffered a further setback over Nathan Baker (knee).
He said: "Nathan will be at least a couple of months. He's just done his knee, it's the back of his knee which is damaged but it will only need a rest."
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He certainly seemed alright playing for Denmark in the previous international break.
I know this sounds awful, and my normal tendency on things like this is to stick up for Lambert, as he otherwise seems a decent enough guy (just grotesquely incompetent), but I look at things like this - and it isn't the first time - and I think he is, to put it bluntly, a blatant liar at times.
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Fit maybe but given the seriousness of the injury, I'm not surprised they haven't just thrown him back into Premier League action.
They were quite happy to throw Benteke back in, in spite of the seriousness of his injury.
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Fit maybe but given the seriousness of the injury, I'm not surprised they haven't just thrown him back into Premier League action.
They were quite happy to throw Benteke back in, in spite of the seriousness of his injury.
Honestly, he'd have to be recovering from an amputation for me to choose Clark ahead of him on the bench.
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Another ready made excuse for Mr incompetent, we have no centre backs. Deal with it. Three points against the saints regardless of Baker and Vlaar being out. Fuck me, we must have stooped so low to have to cherish the comeback of one Philippe Senderos.
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Baker is out for two months according to the Mail on twitter. A shame because he's done really well in the game's he's played. Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere.
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Another ready made excuse for Mr incompetent, we have no centre backs. Deal with it. Three points against the saints regardless of Baker and Vlaar being out. Fuck me, we must have stooped so low to have to cherish the comeback of one Philippe Senderos.
The loss of three centre backs is going to be a major problem for any club, whoever they may be to simply just "deal with it".
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Baker is out for two months according to the Mail on twitter. A shame because he's done really well in the game's he's played. Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere.
He has a lot of injuries, probably because he is always throwing himself into tackles and challenges. Maybe if he was encouraged to stay on his feet and play with a bit more composure, he might not suffer so much.
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That is Baker's natural game and you accept it for all its pros and cons. Messing with that would be as beneficial for Baker as it was for England messing with Finn's bowling action.
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That is Baker's natural game and you accept it for all its pros and cons. Messing with that would be as beneficial for Baker as it was for England messing with Finn's bowling action.
Well he won't have a very long career if he continues to play like that.
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Another ready made excuse for Mr incompetent, we have no centre backs. Deal with it. Three points against the saints regardless of Baker and Vlaar being out. Fuck me, we must have stooped so low to have to cherish the comeback of one Philippe Senderos.
Alternatively, we're missing what's been a surprisingly astute signing by the much-maligned Paul Lambert, who has proved to be a steady and reliable defender in the games he's played.
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That is Baker's natural game and you accept it for all its pros and cons. Messing with that would be as beneficial for Baker as it was for England messing with Finn's bowling action.
Off piste i know, but i never knew that. I wondered what happened to him.
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Yeah, Senderos has looked good so far when he's played.
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Agree.
For me the Senderos / Baker partnership has been the pick of the CB combinations so far this season.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
Edit: In fact, after Milner, Young and Downing would Knight have been O'Neill's most profitable (as in selling him for more than we paid) signing?
If so, that's pretty horrendous.
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Another ready made excuse for Mr incompetent, we have no centre backs. Deal with it. Three points against the saints regardless of Baker and Vlaar being out. Fuck me, we must have stooped so low to have to cherish the comeback of one Philippe Senderos.
Alternatively, we're missing what's been a surprisingly astute signing by the much-maligned Paul Lambert, who has proved to be a steady and reliable defender in the games he's played.
there are a number of sticks to beat the manager with. This isn't one and while Lambert has created or been a big part of a number of the issues at the club it is undeniable that he has been cursed in terms of luck with injuries.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
Edit: In fact, after Milner, Young and Downing would Knight have been O'Neill's most profitable (as in selling him for more than we paid) signing?
If so, that's pretty horrendous.
Signed him for 3.5, sold him for 4? Think you're right.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
If he stays for years then we won't due to age. If we sold him in the summer we'd get more than half a million for him.
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Where the f**k is Senderos? He's been out over 3 months with a calf injury! Worse than 'Concrete' Ron! Not much said by the club as an update....
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He's hiding with Kozak and Vlaar.
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I had forgotten about big Phil. He was looking like a very good signing at the start of the season.
Saying that we have not really missed him, to be honest since the start of the season the back four as a defensive unit whoever has been called upon (except Lowton) have done a good job.
Vlaar, Hutton, Baker, Clark, Okore, Phil and even Ally (defensively) have been good.
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We seem to have become the Bermuda Triangle of football.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
Edit: In fact, after Milner, Young and Downing would Knight have been O'Neill's most profitable (as in selling him for more than we paid) signing?
If so, that's pretty horrendous.
He probably was. Hard to believe that people weren't queuing up to pay more than Ł8m for NRC, Warnock and Curtis Davies, but that's the cruel mistress that we call football.
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Didn't we well knight for exactly what we paid for him?
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Didn't we well knight for exactly what we paid for him?
It was reported as Ł3.5m to Fulham and Ł4.5m from Bolton.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
Edit: In fact, after Milner, Young and Downing would Knight have been O'Neill's most profitable (as in selling him for more than we paid) signing?
If so, that's pretty horrendous.
Thinking about it, I can barely remember us selling anyone else under MON, other than those four.
Which was a large part of the problem, obviously.
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Back in training today. VT have a picture of him at Bodymoor. Good news, we need every single experienced player in the run-in.
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He's been a smart signing. Compare and contrast if you will to say a Ł4m Zat Knight.
I bet you that when Senderos eventually leaves us we won't make as much profit on him as we did with Knight.
Edit: In fact, after Milner, Young and Downing would Knight have been O'Neill's most profitable (as in selling him for more than we paid) signing?
If so, that's pretty horrendous.
Thinking about it, I can barely remember us selling anyone else under MON, other than those four.
Which was a large part of the problem, obviously.
He sold off the homegrown crew - Cahill, Davis, Moore, Ridgewell, Whittingham, Barry, Gardner
We might have made some money on Maloney too, think we got him on a Bosman
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We paid for Maloney in January rather than wait until the summer when he'd have been free.
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Back in training today. VT have a picture of him at Bodymoor. Good news, we need every single experienced player in the run-in.
Can't quite believe he's been injurerd this long but yes good to have him back as he was suprisingly solid at the start of the season alongside Vlaar and given how well Okore and Clark have done we're very strong at CB which we will need to continue to be with Sherwood's offensive tactics in the run in.
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We paid for Maloney in January rather than wait until the summer when he'd have been free.
What a shrewd piece of business that wasn't.
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We paid for Maloney in January rather than wait until the summer when he'd have been free.
What a shrewd piece of business that wasn't.
We sold him back for double.
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We paid for Maloney in January rather than wait until the summer when he'd have been free.
What a shrewd piece of business that wasn't.
We sold him back for double.
Where i used to sit in the Upper Trinity, behind us was a row of six or seven blokes who were continually negative - loudly - during matches, but very funny with it. Stuff like, we'd kick off, and on 30 seconds, one of them would shout "come on, Villa, they're all over you!". That sort of thing, enjoyable football, errr, bants.
I remember the very first time Maloney played for us, his first touch pretty much, the ball came to him and he managed to slip or somehow fall over, and one of the blokes behind shouted "what's the matter, the ball too fucking big for you?".
It struck me as funny at the time, but following that, every single time Maloney played for us, and every single time in those appearances he touched the ball, I heard this bloke's loud voice and strong yam yam accent screaming "BALL TOO BIG FOR YOU?"
I liked Maloney, but I was glad when he left.
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I knew a bloke who used to shout "RIMMER"! whenever the ball was in our half. I was never sure whether he was a big fan of the back pass or if he wanted our Jimmy to stop being lazy and get stuck in as a kind of rush goalie.
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I knew a bloke who used to shout "RIMMER"! whenever the ball was in our half. I was never sure whether he was a big fan of the back pass or if he wanted our Jimmy to stop being lazy and get stuck in as a kind of rush goalie.
There's an alternative, but I'm not going to say it.
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I knew a bloke who used to shout "RIMMER"! whenever the ball was in our half. I was never sure whether he was a big fan of the back pass or if he wanted our Jimmy to stop being lazy and get stuck in as a kind of rush goalie.
There's an alternative, but I'm not going to say it.
I know. I nearly posted it.
It involved a back pass(age) pun.
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(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/168/c/2/c25726fe940a99837d8e2d798dea1038-d53rusa.jpg)
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Dat vos Ace Rimmer! We are lucky to be alive!
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(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/168/c/2/c25726fe940a99837d8e2d798dea1038-d53rusa.jpg)
That was my first thought.
Glad Senderos is back
Interesting to see if Sherwood goes with Vlaar and Senderos when both fit for the experience at the back.
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Dat vos Ace Rimmer! We are lucky to be alive!
(http://www.abload.de/img/mbirtbcmr.gif)
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To be fair Okore and Clark have been good this year, so it's nice to have options. I wouldn't want them to be completely discarded.
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I notice Senderos is down to return next week anybody got an update, the defence looked better with him in the side.
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Yeah I would like to see Senderos back asap.
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Where the hell is he and why is his injury taking so long to recover?
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I wonder how many of those currently unfit will be available for the Semi Final ? Ooooh I am so cynical .
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Back in training apparently
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The upshot of his injury bought together a pretty promising partnership, though.
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The upshot of his injury bought together a pretty promising partnership, though.
Possibly saving Clark's Villa career in the process.
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Given that we have a new Manager and a crap defence, is it time to reignite the career of big Phil?
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Blimey where did that come from! Are there any others we've forgotten about?
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Given that we have a new Manager and a crap defence, is it time to reignite the career of big Phil?
Considering how well he generally did for us, it's ridiculous to say this, but he didn't get included in the squad of 25
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Blimey where did that come from! Are there any others we've forgotten about?
Ivo Staas is on the mend so I hear.
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Blimey where did that come from! Are there any others we've forgotten about?
Ivo Staas is on the mend so I hear.
Once Neale Cooper is back in contention as well there will be no stopping us.
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Is Semderos still on the books at Villa
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Is Semderos still on the books at Villa
Yes. Last year of a two year contract. He wasn't given a squad number though so can't play for us until squads are submitted again, during/after the Jan window. Can't remember when the deadline is.
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Richardson, Cole, Senderos all in the last year of their contract, along with N'Zogbia? That might save us a few quid.
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Yeah, N'Zog's contract is finally up in 2016. What a waste of money he proved to be.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
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strange, only thought about him earlier and agree it's a shame he's not available. Can't remember him putting a foot wrong before he got injured and was a major player in our start last season.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
He was pretty solid alongside Vlaar ,got injured and not been herd of since.Sherwood didn't rate him or Cissoko it seemed.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
He was pretty solid alongside Vlaar ,got injured and not been herd of since.Sherwood didn't rate him or Cissoko it seemed.
In fairness, Cissokho really was absolutely fucking shit.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
He was pretty solid alongside Vlaar ,got injured and not been herd of since.Sherwood didn't rate him or Cissoko it seemed.
In fairness, Cissokho really was absolutely fucking shit.
I'd still fancy him at left-back over Richardson.
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I didn't realise that Senderos and Cissokho were still with us. I liked big Phil, is he actually fit?
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It's a shame Phil isn't a goalkeeper.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
He was pretty solid alongside Vlaar ,got injured and not been herd of since.Sherwood didn't rate him or Cissoko it seemed.
In fairness, Cissokho really was absolutely fucking shit.
I'd still fancy him at left-back over Richardson.
So would I. Richardson is poor mans Danny Higginbottom. Or something equivalent. And given what we've seen thus far I'd take Senderos every over Lescott.
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Senderos would have been some use in the squad if he is fit. Played really well at first for us.
He was pretty solid alongside Vlaar ,got injured and not been herd of since.Sherwood didn't rate him or Cissoko it seemed.
In fairness, Cissokho really was absolutely fucking shit.
I'd still fancy him at left-back over Richardson.
So would I. Richardson is poor mans Danny Higginbottom. Or something equivalent. And given what we've seen thus far I'd take Senderos every over Lescott.
That is one impressive insult.
Agree about Senderos v Lescott, who's looking like one of our worst signings this century.(Lescott that is.) Signed hoping he'd be a Ronny Johnsen type signing. We'd have been better off with Ulrika Jonsson.
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I guess new manager means everyone in the squad starts with the same chance. He has no particular loyalty to anyone as they are not his signings. If Senderos, and it is a big if, impresses then he could figure again and the same goes for a few others.
He also gets some leeway from fans for a while, well some of us at least, while he learns about his players. In our current predicament that will not last long of course.
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I assume Senderos hasn't been registered the Premier League games? so he can't play at the moment?
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I think Remi Garde will get a lot more patience from the fans than has been shown to his predecessors because I believe, like Houllier you will be able to see what he is trying to do. I should also add that I think McLeish and Lambert were given every chance to succeed. Sherwood had to go precipitously because he and the team were in free fall. You can't make statements like "we can't play all our games away from home" and expect the fans not to be angry.
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I think Remi Garde will get a lot more patience from the fans than has been shown to his predecessors because I believe, like Houllier you will be able to see what he is trying to do. I should also add that I think McLeish and Lambert were given every chance to succeed. Sherwood had to go precipitously because he and the team were in free fall. You can't make statements like "we can't play all our games away from home" and expect the fans not to be angry.
Completely agree Brian.
I must have missed that statement from him. That's possibly the worst of the lot, and God knows there's plenty of competition.
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I think Remi Garde will get a lot more patience from the fans than has been shown to his predecessors because I believe, like Houllier you will be able to see what he is trying to do. I should also add that I think McLeish and Lambert were given every chance to succeed. Sherwood had to go precipitously because he and the team were in free fall. You can't make statements like "we can't play all our games away from home" and expect the fans not to be angry.
I hope so - but one point I'd slightly disagree with is that Lambert had bucket loads of patience from the fans. He still had the bulk of the fans pretty much on his side all the way until Autumn of his final season.
With the benefit of hindsight (for me at least, as there were plenty of people at the time saying that he should go) he probably had too much patience.
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I agree with that. He got loads of time from the fans as we thought we could see a vision of how he wanted us to play. Then he changed it and that vision quickly became the mirage it always was.
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I think Remi Garde will get a lot more patience from the fans than has been shown to his predecessors because I believe, like Houllier you will be able to see what he is trying to do. I should also add that I think McLeish and Lambert were given every chance to succeed. Sherwood had to go precipitously because he and the team were in free fall. You can't make statements like "we can't play all our games away from home" and expect the fans not to be angry.
He will get leeway from those who agree with the appointment. Those who thought a different approach was needed, i.e. tried and tested in this league, might not be so patient and if experience is anything to go by will not be slow in expressing their disapproval should he have a bad start, as our PL survival is at stake.
Of course, it will not come to that as all our Christmases will have come at once as we glide serenely up the league and the last few years becomes nothing but a bad dream.
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I think part of the reason Lambert was afforded as much time by the fans and the club was simply that the previous two managers had lasted less than a year and it was nice to have the luxury of giving a manager time without being ambushed by illness or uselessness. I think if he'd come in after a manager with a few more years clocked up, it may have been a less forgiving atmosphere.
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I think part of the reason Lambert was afforded as much time by the fans and the club was simply that the previous two managers had lasted less than a year and it was nice to have the luxury of giving a manager time without being ambushed by illness or uselessness. I think if he'd come in after a manager with a few more years clocked up, it may have been a less forgiving atmosphere.
I also think he was given more leeway because he had more youngsters in the side and Villa fans are generally much more patient with young players.
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I think part of the reason Lambert was afforded as much time by the fans and the club was simply that the previous two managers had lasted less than a year and it was nice to have the luxury of giving a manager time without being ambushed by illness or uselessness. I think if he'd come in after a manager with a few more years clocked up, it may have been a less forgiving atmosphere.
I also think he was given more leeway because he had more youngsters in the side and Villa fans are generally much more patient with young players.
And also because every so often he'd pull out a result or two, plus there was a harking back to the end of his first season and how promising it seemed.
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I think Remi Garde will get a lot more patience from the fans than has been shown to his predecessors because I believe, like Houllier you will be able to see what he is trying to do. I should also add that I think McLeish and Lambert were given every chance to succeed. Sherwood had to go precipitously because he and the team were in free fall. You can't make statements like "we can't play all our games away from home" and expect the fans not to be angry.
I hope so - but one point I'd slightly disagree with is that Lambert had bucket loads of patience from the fans. He still had the bulk of the fans pretty much on his side all the way until Autumn of his final season.
With the benefit of hindsight (for me at least, as there were plenty of people at the time saying that he should go) he probably had too much patience.
I honestly thought the amount of support and patience Lambert had was extraordinary. After that first season, most fans at most clubs would have been on his back, demanding P45s. The support he had from us was pretty much unanimous.
I struggle to think of a club whose fans have given their manager more patience than Lambert got from us. I thought he was very, very lucky to carry the support as long as he did.
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I think part of the reason Lambert was afforded as much time by the fans and the club was simply that the previous two managers had lasted less than a year and it was nice to have the luxury of giving a manager time without being ambushed by illness or uselessness. I think if he'd come in after a manager with a few more years clocked up, it may have been a less forgiving atmosphere.
I also think he was given more leeway because he had more youngsters in the side and Villa fans are generally much more patient with young players.
And also because every so often he'd pull out a result or two, plus there was a harking back to the end of his first season and how promising it seemed.
*pull out really impressive result from nowhere*
*lose*
*lose*
*unconvincing draw*
*stoic draw*
*lose*
*lose*
*last minute equaliser*
*lose*
*lose*
*repeat*
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What I found frustrating with Lambert was that he never looked to improve on the Weimann-Benteke-Gabby combination. It worked great for the last part of his first season but then should have been the time to make Weimann and Gabby into squad players and improve the quality of players playing in those positions alongside Benteke.
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Did Garde manage Cissokho at Lyon? Thought I read that somewhere. Of all the players to be loyal to/manager's pet, here's hoping it's not him.
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Did Garde manage Cissokho at Lyon? Thought I read that somewhere. Of all the players to be loyal to/manager's pet, here's hoping it's not him.
There for his first year I think. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see him in ahead of Amavi. But I'd be delighted (and not surprised) it he were in ahead of Richardson.
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Did Garde manage Cissokho at Lyon? Thought I read that somewhere. Of all the players to be loyal to/manager's pet, here's hoping it's not him.
There for his first year I think. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see him in ahead of Amavi. But I'd be delighted (and not surprised) it he were in ahead of Richardson.
I'm sure that there's a quote from Cissokho saying that it will be interesting to see if his old boss turning up in B6 could mean a return for himself.
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Didn't he leave Lyon with a rep as one of the best young left backs in Europe after his form under Garde?
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Didn't he leave Lyon with a rep as one of the best young left backs in Europe after his form under Garde?
Well if that's true, maybe there's hope for other "less well regarded" players on our books.
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Didn't he leave Lyon with a rep as one of the best young left backs in Europe after his form under Garde?
Not really. He joined them with that reputation - they paid Porto €15 million for him.
He was competent for Lyon and then left them for Valencia for about a third of what they paid. Then a loan at Liverpool a season later and then a permanent transfer somewhere else. I forget where.
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Didn't he leave Lyon with a rep as one of the best young left backs in Europe after his form under Garde?
Not really. He joined them with that reputation - they paid Porto €15 million for him.
He was competent for Lyon and then left them for Valencia for about a third of what they paid. Then a loan at Liverpool a season later and then a permanent transfer somewhere else. I forget where.
€15 million. Fuck me. Are you sure that's Euros and not Italian Lira?
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probably a currency in use on some planet featured in Star Trek
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Didn't he leave Lyon with a rep as one of the best young left backs in Europe after his form under Garde?
Not really. He joined them with that reputation - they paid Porto €15 million for him.
He was competent for Lyon and then left them for Valencia for about a third of what they paid. Then a loan at Liverpool a season later and then a permanent transfer somewhere else. I forget where.
€15 million. Fuck me. Are you sure that's Euros and not Italian Lira?
Funny you should say Italian Lira, Milan had agreed the same fee for him, but the deal broke down when there was a question mark from his medical. Apparently something with his teeth indicated a possible problem with his spine*. Lyon and Garde's predecessor, Claude Puel hijacked the deal for the same amount.
It was Garde that shipped him out to Valencia.
* [CHEAP SHOT]Do you think Delph ever goes to the dentist?[/CHEAP SHOT]
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Interesting cheap shot VID. Venomous snakes have two hollow or grooved fangs. Constrictors don't need teeth swallowing their prey whole. Fabbo would be the venomous sort. Must ask Doc Butler how your gnashers affect your spine.
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There will be plenty of gnashing of teeth if he returns to do damage on Sunday.
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Interesting cheap shot VID. Venomous snakes have two hollow or grooved fangs. Constrictors don't need teeth swallowing their prey whole. Fabbo would be the venomous sort. Must ask Doc Butler how your gnashers affect your spine.
odontology is not my area of expertise, but I believe that the teeth and spine can seriously effect each other especially when picking up huge wage packets and believing that you are better than you really are when slithering about on a very expensive Man City bench.
hope this answers your question Brian :)
UTV
The Doc
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the footballing and herpetological minutiae of this forum never ceases to amaze me! And here am I thinking Fab was just a cnut.
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the footballing and herpetological minutiae of this forum never ceases to amaze me! And here am I thinking Fab was just a cnut.
Lacking vertebrae, I'm sure he could curl himself up into the right sort of shape, if that's what floats your boat.
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How did this conversation go from Philippe Senderos to Fabian Delph?
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How did this conversation go from Philippe Senderos to Fabian Delph?
Via Aly Cissokh's teeth.
Only on H&V.
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Another one I forgot all about. We really have too many of those don't we? ::)
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the footballing and herpetological minutiae of this forum never ceases to amaze me! And here am I thinking Fab was just a cnut.
Lacking vertebrae, I'm sure he could curl himself up into the right sort of shape, if that's what floats your boat.
Lacking vertebrae, he probably blows himself off each night*.
*Wasn't it Marilyn Manson who had a vertebra removed so that he could fellate himself?
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the footballing and herpetological minutiae of this forum never ceases to amaze me! And here am I thinking Fab was just a cnut.
Lacking vertebrae, I'm sure he could curl himself up into the right sort of shape, if that's what floats your boat.
Lacking vertebrae, he probably blows himself off each night*.
*Wasn't it Marilyn Manson who had a vertebra removed so that he could fellate himself?
* I thought it was Prince
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Not seen this posted elsewhere but it seems we have conducted some business this window.
Philippe Senderos departs Villa
Defender leaves B6. 27th Jan 2016
Aston Villa and Philippe Senderos have mutually agreed to terminate the defender's contract.
Senderos arrived in June 2014 and made nine appearances in claret and blue.
The club wishes Philippe all the best in his future career.
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Philippe despite his reputation played well for us in his 9 games. But the problem with Philippe, and a reason why we shouldn't have signed him, is that he's always injured. It was inevitable. We had Blancmange Ron here taking up the treatment table so what did we do? We signed his Swiss cousin.
Good luck to him. I think perhaps moving to a less physically demanding league, he might be able to extend his playing career a bit longer. For someone we all expected to be an utter disaster he never really let us down on the pitch. The trouble is, as expected, he just didn't get on the pitch.
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That's a relief. I was expecting to read that we'd extended his contract and given him a pay rise.
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Philippe despite his reputation played well for us in his 9 games. But the problem with Philippe, and a reason why we shouldn't have signed him, is that he's always injured. It was inevitable. We had Blancmange Ron here taking up the treatment table so what did we do? We signed his Swiss cousin.
Good luck to him. I think perhaps moving to a less physically demanding league, he might be able to extend his playing career a bit longer. For someone we all expected to be an utter disaster he never really let us down on the pitch. The trouble is, as expected, he just didn't get on the pitch.
His performance when he bullied Ballotelli was a real highlight ;-)
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31 next month, right move. That's him and Cole shifted this window, Hope CNZ and GA follow before it closes.
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I can't understand why we never played him again. I don't accept he has not been fit since that injury nor that he wouldn't have had anything to contribute to one of the worst defences I have seen in 30 years.
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I can't understand why we never played him again. I don't accept he has not been fit since that injury nor that he wouldn't have had anything to contribute to one of the worst defences I have seen in 30 years.
It seems bizarre because when he did play at the start of his Villa career he actually looked solid, then he vanished. I think he was just a latter day member of the Villa bomb squad who we just wanted off the wage bill.
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I can't understand why we never played him again. I don't accept he has not been fit since that injury nor that he wouldn't have had anything to contribute to one of the worst defences I have seen in 30 years.
It seems bizarre because when he did play at the start of his Villa career he actually looked solid, then he vanished. I think he was just a latter day member of the Villa bomb squad who we just wanted off the wage bill.
Which is criminal really, as there have been loads of times we have been crying out for his experience. In those fist 9 games he was very, very good.
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Sherwood didn;t put him in the 25 man squad, so we couldn't play him.
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Played well in his 9 games, but far too injury prone. It looks like Garde is clearing the decks it'll be good to see the likes of Senderos, Cole, Richardson, Gabby and N'Zog gone.
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4 of those 5 would/will be gone in the summer anyway. Still, it's nice that Garde knows who is shit/a drain on the club.
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4 of those 5 would/will be gone in the summer anyway. Still, it's nice that Garde knows who is shit/a drain on the club.
Gabby contracted till 2018.
19 under 21 players out of contract at end of season (including Donacien & Robinson who are both on loan).
Crespo,Steer,Baker,Bennett and Gardner out on loan till the end of the season.
How many of these will go cheaply as per the previous seasons loanees?
4 under 18 players out of contract at end of season.
How many of them (the 19 + 4) will be offered new contracts?
If Hollis' previous comments are anything to go by, probably none if them.
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Philippe despite his reputation played well for us in his 9 games. But the problem with Philippe, and a reason why we shouldn't have signed him, is that he's always injured. It was inevitable. We had Blancmange Ron here taking up the treatment table so what did we do? We signed his Swiss cousin.
Good luck to him. I think perhaps moving to a less physically demanding league, he might be able to extend his playing career a bit longer. For someone we all expected to be an utter disaster he never really let us down on the pitch. The trouble is, as expected, he just didn't get on the pitch.
His performance when he bullied Ballotelli was a real highlight ;-)
Loved that. I'll always remember him for that game.
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Only one reminder of the dreamy transfer window in which we signed Joe Cole, Senderos and Kieran Richardson.
That's a clutch of championship signings if ever I saw one.
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Only one reminder of the dreamy transfer window in which we signed Joe Cole, Senderos and Kieran Richardson.
That's a clutch of championship signings if ever I saw one.
Oh well, you know people say things come in threes. Bye Kieran.
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I'd forgotten he was still with us
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Only one reminder of the dreamy transfer window in which we signed Joe Cole, Senderos and Kieran Richardson.
That's a clutch of championship signings if ever I saw one.
And Cissokho and Sanchez.
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Only one reminder of the dreamy transfer window in which we signed Joe Cole, Senderos and Kieran Richardson.
That's a clutch of championship signings if ever I saw one.
Quite. I put money on us to go down that summer. Didn't this last one of course.
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Philippe despite his reputation played well for us in his 9 games. But the problem with Philippe, and a reason why we shouldn't have signed him, is that he's always injured. It was inevitable. We had Blancmange Ron here taking up the treatment table so what did we do? We signed his Swiss cousin.
Good luck to him. I think perhaps moving to a less physically demanding league, he might be able to extend his playing career a bit longer. For someone we all expected to be an utter disaster he never really let us down on the pitch. The trouble is, as expected, he just didn't get on the pitch.
His performance when he bullied Ballotelli was a real highlight ;-)
Yes, a Villa career highlight was what he did off the ball in 1 game, says a lot about our eye for a player. Fucking hell I want to cry.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50814624
Former Arsenal defender Philippe Senderos has retired at the age of 34.
Senderos joined Arsenal in 2003 - but missed their unbeaten Premier League title season of 2003-04 with back and foot injuries - and won the FA Cup before moving to Fulham in 2010.
He had spells with Aston Villa and Rangers and won 57 Switzerland caps, playing at three World Cups.
"I couldn't be more thankful for the blessings and opportunities I've had over the years," he wrote on Instagram.
Senderos, who also made two appearances on loan at Everton, played in Major League Soccer for Houston Dynamo from 2017-18 and he ended his career in his native Switzerland with FC Chiasso in the second tier.
On social media he thanked all the teams he had played for - including his loan sides Everton and Milan - adding: "To my friends and amazing family, thank you a million times over. I look forward to the next chapter."
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Legend.
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how is there 67 pages on Senderos?
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how is there 67 pages on Senderos?
The first 38 pages are people hoping we don't sign him. The next 15 are saying it's a shit signing. 2 pages praising him after the Liverpool game, the remainder of pages were celebrating him leaving.
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I thought we were signing him again!
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how is there 67 pages on Senderos?
The first 38 pages are people hoping we don't sign him. The next 15 are saying it's a shit signing. 2 pages praising him after the Liverpool game, the remainder of pages were celebrating him leaving.
standard process for 99% of our signings.
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Legend.
Super Servant.
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Legend.
Super Servant.
Outside of Andy Lochhead, Dion Dublin and The Mighty Atom, we have not been best served by baldies.
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I have no memory of him ever playing for Villa. I must be getting old.
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He did o.k in that good start to the season (one where we gave the manager and half the squad new four year contracts) then got injured and that was that.
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I remember seeing him on the pitch. “Playing”, I’m not so sure.
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I have no memory of him ever playing for Villa. I must be getting old.
I'm the same with Joe Cole.
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Senderos, Cole, Vlaar, Richards -they all must have spent more time on the treatment table working back from injury than they did on the pitch?
What on earth were the people who ran the club thinking?
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Senderos, Cole, Vlaar, Richards -they all must have spent more time on the treatment table working back from injury than they did on the pitch?
What on earth were the people who ran the club thinking?
Yes, we seem to have had a policy of buying crocks.