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Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Deano's Mullet on April 26, 2014, 06:35:36 PM

Title: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 26, 2014, 06:35:36 PM
My first game was in 1988 and the first year we were back in Div One, I was aware of Villa before but really got the bug for it during the 87-88 promotion season. In all that time i can honestly say no Villa team has stunk the place out as much as this Lambert team. For those long timers who go further back than me, how does this side of 2014 compare with the team of 1987? I know in 87 we had the likes of Paul Elliott, Martin Keown, Allan Evans etc and cant help but think any of those would easily have fitted into our back 4 this season.

Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Dave Clark Five on April 26, 2014, 06:47:24 PM
This side is worse than the ones that took us down into Divs 2 and 3. I am convinced that we would  be near the bottom in Div 4 with this outfit. I think we are worse than the Penrice /Aspinall team and that is saying something. The Villa Old Stars would beat us now, with no disrespect to them.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 26, 2014, 06:56:22 PM
Penrice was later wasn't he? Venglos signed him I think.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: TEEJAY on April 26, 2014, 06:58:32 PM
The current squad aren't good enough. They also don't seem to care if we go down or not. Previous squads at least have shown a bit of fight. All the cost cutting might look good for the accountants but if we do go down it will cost millions in lost revenue and getting decent players to put right. We are in a complete mess.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 26, 2014, 06:59:24 PM
Penrice was later wasn't he? Venglos signed him I think.

Yeh Penrice joined in 1991 I do believe. Scored a cracker vs Arsenal in BFR's first season.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: pooligan on April 26, 2014, 06:59:40 PM
This Lambert side is the worse team without doubt i have seen since i started following Villa in the 62/63 season. Yes we have had some piss poor sides like the one who went down in 1966 and the ones who were relegated to the third division  and the one who were relegated under Billy McBungle ,but at least them sides use to score a few goals and win at home now and then .
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 26, 2014, 07:07:55 PM
I never thought I'd say that I'm witness to a worse Villa side than the 1986-87 debacle. 
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: cdward on April 26, 2014, 07:22:01 PM
Let's face it players like Bowery, Bennett, Sylla, Westwood, Baker and Lowton are not Premier league, and would be more at home in the championship. The squad in 87 was more of a top level squad, it was the manager more at fault. This time I just think the players are just not good enough.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: clash city rocker on April 26, 2014, 07:35:35 PM
This fucker for sure
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Dave Clark Five on April 26, 2014, 07:39:46 PM
Penrice was later wasn't he? Venglos signed him I think.

Yes. He was later. I should have put Stainrod.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Charlie8182 on April 26, 2014, 08:08:44 PM
That was the first season I had a season ticket - as far as players and ability go I would have to say that this is the worst Villa side I've seen (I said that last season as well).  As pointed out the relegated team had Allan Evans, Paul Elliot and Martin Keown, as well as Tony Dorigo, Nigel Spink, Mark Walters, Tony Daley, Paul Birch, Garry Thompson and Andy Gray (although he was certainly past it by then).  And whisper it very quietly but we began the season with Steve Hodge (yes I know!!!!) who played had just played for England in the World Cup.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: villan from luton on April 26, 2014, 08:18:14 PM
We started that season with great hope, but 3-0 defeat at home to Spuds in first game soon put a dash to that. Think both teams were shit, with shit managers and shit tactics
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: eric woolban woolban on April 26, 2014, 08:23:57 PM
Didn't Liverpool win the league in 87 too? *


*just checked, it was Everton.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 26, 2014, 08:24:47 PM
87 side. They finished bottom for a reason.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 26, 2014, 08:55:30 PM
The 86/87 side were awful, far less than the sum of their parts, and weren't capable of the odd good performance.  At least this season the side have shown flashes of potential against some good sides.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: levico on April 26, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
This side definitely worse but the 1966/67 team was worse than both.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Damo70 on April 26, 2014, 11:39:46 PM
The '87 side finished rock bottom with 36 points from 42 games and eight points from safety so they were the worst. So this Villa team are only the second worst in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Reuben on April 27, 2014, 07:02:25 AM
The 86/87 side were awful, far less than the sum of their parts, and weren't capable of the odd good performance.  At least this season the side have shown flashes of potential against some good sides.
I don't recall the performances of that season (my first conscious season was the year after) but a couple of draws v Liverpool sounds good.  Were they deserved?  I appreciate we were thrashed by Forest, Norwich, Charlton etc
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: oldham_villa on April 27, 2014, 07:06:33 PM
86/87 for me, though the defensive frailties are very similar.

Elliott is still the worst centre half I've seen at the Villa, though Baker is neck and neck with him.

Lowton's defending is probably worse than a hybrid of Bernie Gallagher, Andy Comyn and Steve Watson.

El Ahmadi adds as much to the team as Neale Cooper did.

Holt is as mobile as Andy Gray

Weimann is doing a good impression of Simon Stainrod too
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: He wears a magic hat on April 28, 2014, 12:09:56 AM
Statistically 86/87 side was the worst but I voted for this years side purely on yhe fact that I can never remember coming out of a match feeling so bored and deprived of any entertainment so often.
Maybe times a great healer and uou forget hut I don't remember feeling that way in 87
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Damo70 on April 28, 2014, 08:20:00 AM
In '86-'87 we were pretty poor until we beat Charlton on Boxing Day and that changed everything. After that we were absolutely abysmal.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: supertom on April 28, 2014, 01:03:28 PM
87 was a little before my time as a Villa fan. But honestly I'm not sure any side in our history could play as cluelessly as we have for the vast majority of Lamberts time here. It's not just the poor standard of player we have here, it's just how utterly clueless they look on the pitch and devoid of any ideas and organisation which is worse.

Certainly in my time 90-present, Lamberts side has been the worst. He's making McLeish look competent at the moment.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Steve R on April 28, 2014, 01:53:33 PM
Maybe there should be a voting option for McLeish's team. I am struggling to think of the redeeming feature that makes them better than this season's offering.

Other than that the 86/7 team, although the worst I have ever seen was the 66/7 outfit.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2014, 02:46:17 PM
87 was a little before my time as a Villa fan. But honestly I'm not sure any side in our history could play as cluelessly as we have for the vast majority of Lamberts time here. It's not just the poor standard of player we have here, it's just how utterly clueless they look on the pitch and devoid of any ideas and organisation which is worse.

Certainly in my time 90-present, Lamberts side has been the worst. He's making McLeish look competent at the moment.

Trust me, 86-87 was worse.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: London Villan on April 28, 2014, 03:15:17 PM
Weren't we outside tips for the top places in the league is 1986/87...
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: supertom on April 28, 2014, 06:32:17 PM
87 was a little before my time as a Villa fan. But honestly I'm not sure any side in our history could play as cluelessly as we have for the vast majority of Lamberts time here. It's not just the poor standard of player we have here, it's just how utterly clueless they look on the pitch and devoid of any ideas and organisation which is worse.

Certainly in my time 90-present, Lamberts side has been the worst. He's making McLeish look competent at the moment.

Trust me, 86-87 was worse.
Jesus mate. If that's the case you must have only just recovered from the 87 season. This season has been so bad it feels like I'll take about 30 years to get over it.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Witton Warrior on April 28, 2014, 09:34:48 PM
I think the reason this lot seem worse is that we have had 4 seasons of decline - '87 we crashed and burned not this slow lingering death by ineptitude
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Colin B on April 28, 2014, 11:29:20 PM
1987 by a Country Mile
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 28, 2014, 11:40:27 PM
What makes 87 so much worse, for me it at least, is that it was so soon after being the best in England and Europe. 5 years after lifting the European Cup we finished bottom of the league, and deserved to be bottom.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Colin B on April 28, 2014, 11:54:35 PM
1985-86 was terrible too

West Brom Finished Bottom and Blues second bottom which saved us but Blues still beat us 3-0 at our place

At least according to this website

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/match/index.html?event=3;season=1985%2F86;team=242

I honestly can't remember that game at all
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 28, 2014, 11:57:07 PM
1985-86 was terrible too

West Brom Finished Bottom and Blues second bottom which saved us but Blues still beat us 3-0 at our place

At least according to this website

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/match/index.html?event=3;season=1985%2F86;team=242

I honestly can't remember that game at all

I can. They were in the Witton Lane and all round the ground afterwards.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: PeterWithe on April 29, 2014, 07:29:47 AM
I dont think there is much in it, both eras seem to have given up and accepted whatever fate decrees, difference is 87 this meant certain relegation, this lot might survive by the skin of their teeth though no credit is due.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Damo70 on April 29, 2014, 07:40:50 AM
Weren't we outside tips for the top places in the league is 1986/87...

There was a degree of excitement as we had improved the side by bringing Hunt and Blair back towards the end of the previous season and then brought in Keown, Cooper and Thompson in the summer. The squad was on paper a big improvement on the one that kicked off the previous season.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 29, 2014, 02:14:16 PM
The 86/87 side was worse overall but this side without Benteke and Okore have the ability to be just as bad
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: silhillvilla on May 01, 2014, 09:00:33 PM
86/87 was bad but I don't remember much about the games as we generally spent 90% of the game "connecting" with the opposition fans. The 0-3 away loss at Charlton (at palace) is arguably the defining moment of that season.
Hull on Saturday may be the defining moment of 13/14.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: FranzBiberkopf on May 01, 2014, 11:31:47 PM
Quote
I can. They were in the Witton Lane and all round the ground afterwards.

Two things spring to mind that day:

1. They were fcuking horrible that day. Spitting on the women, kids and old boys in the Witton Lane etc, swanning about like they owned the place.

2. 0-3 flattered us. I think they hit the bar twice also. Wayne Clarke did all the damage IIRC.



Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Damo70 on May 02, 2014, 09:07:17 AM
Quote
I can. They were in the Witton Lane and all round the ground afterwards.

Two things spring to mind that day:

1. They were fcuking horrible that day. Spitting on the women, kids and old boys in the Witton Lane etc, swanning about like they owned the place.

2. 0-3 flattered us. I think they hit the bar twice also. Wayne Clarke did all the damage IIRC.

I'm pretty sure they played fat Billy Wright up front with Clarke. Considering they managed to be even worse than us that season my mate and I were wondering exactly how many we would win by.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: richard moore on May 06, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Weren't we outside tips for the top places in the league is 1986/87...

In my mind, we are every season before it begins...
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 06, 2014, 04:26:19 PM
Quote
I can. They were in the Witton Lane and all round the ground afterwards.

Two things spring to mind that day:

1. They were fcuking horrible that day. Spitting on the women, kids and old boys in the Witton Lane etc, swanning about like they owned the place.

2. 0-3 flattered us. I think they hit the bar twice also. Wayne Clarke did all the damage IIRC.

I'm pretty sure they played fat Billy Wright up front with Clarke. Considering they managed to be even worse than us that season my mate and I were wondering exactly how many we would win by.



I could be mixing my derby matches here, but I think this game cemented my hatred for Vince Overson
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Damo70 on May 07, 2014, 08:17:42 AM
Overson was later, part of the Leyland Daf and Foghorn Gleghorn days. Amazingly his central defensive partner was even worse than him. Trevor Mathewson. Trust me when they talk about 'Trev' being a legend they aren't talking about him.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Bishop Brennan on May 13, 2014, 09:33:37 PM
I was going to attempt picking a Best XI based on the two squads combined, but I just can't summon up the courage.

The 86/87 squad (below) probably had the edge in terms of individual talent, but as a functioning team they fall well short of 2013/14 in my opinion.

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/1987/2/

PS does anybody remember Stuart Ritchie? I don't have any recollection of him whatsoever.

Bish
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 13, 2014, 09:41:08 PM
I was going to attempt picking a Best XI based on the two squads combined, but I just can't summon up the courage.

The 86/87 squad (below) probably had the edge in terms of individual talent, but as a functioning team they fall well short of 2013/14 in my opinion.

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/1987/2/

PS does anybody remember Stuart Ritchie? I don't have any recollection of him whatsoever.

Bish

Came on as sub at Old Trafford and had what was until recently the shortest-ever Villa career. I think Chris Boden beat him.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Hoppo on May 13, 2014, 09:42:37 PM
Stuart Ritchie played 3 times as a sub at the end of that season. Dark haired kid. He played midfield.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2014, 01:39:23 AM
I'm pretty sure he only played once, at OT as Dave mentions.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Bishop Brennan on May 14, 2014, 09:23:44 AM
I'm pretty sure he only played once, at OT as Dave mentions.

Yep, his Wiki entry mentions just the one sub appearance. Signed for Crewe, but never made the first team, before ending up playing for Waterford in Ireland.

Bish
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Pete on May 14, 2014, 02:53:54 PM
I was going to attempt picking a Best XI based on the two squads combined, but I just can't summon up the courage.

The 86/87 squad (below) probably had the edge in terms of individual talent, but as a functioning team they fall well short of 2013/14 in my opinion.

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/1987/2/

PS does anybody remember Stuart Ritchie? I don't have any recollection of him whatsoever.

Bish

Looking at that squad there seems to be too much quality for relegation (although the midfield is a bit lightweight). Most of the likely starting 11 are better than we have now. Only Delph would be nailed on to get a game.
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: Bishop Brennan on May 14, 2014, 04:08:41 PM
Looking at that squad there seems to be too much quality for relegation (although the midfield is a bit lightweight). Most of the likely starting 11 are better than we have now. Only Delph would be nailed on to get a game.

I reckon Vlaar, Benteke and Gabby would be starters as well as Delph. But that's probably it.

Bloody hell, what a depressing thought  :(

Bish
Title: Re: Which side was worse - 1987 or this seasons?
Post by: JD on May 15, 2014, 09:40:47 AM
I was going to attempt picking a Best XI based on the two squads combined, but I just can't summon up the courage.

The 86/87 squad (below) probably had the edge in terms of individual talent, but as a functioning team they fall well short of 2013/14 in my opinion.

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/1987/2/

PS does anybody remember Stuart Ritchie? I don't have any recollection of him whatsoever.

Bish

I'll take the Manager from 86/87 noted on that webpage (even though it's wrong).
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