Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on April 05, 2014, 05:03:46 PM
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So, that's ten home defeats in the league.
Beaten by:
Fulham
Stoke
West Ham
Arsenal
Crystal Palace
Man United
Everton
Spurs
Newcastle
Liverpool
Plus, defeats at home to Sheffield United in the FA Cup and Spurs in the league cup.
Five home wins this season, 5 last season, and last season we lost nine home league games.
I just do not see how it is possible to defend that. With all the will in the world, and no matter how much you want this manager to succeed, and no matter how much you don't want instability, how is it possible to have that sort of record at home for two seasons and not get the sack?
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Completely unacceptable.
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Despite the negative whispers surrounding him, I'd give my left bollock to see Michael Laudrup in the dugout against Palace. If we stay up, it won't be because of Lambert and it won't be pretty.
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Our card is marked I am convinced.
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16 losses from 32. Pathetic
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It is form that EVERY other club would have sacked their manager for in our position.
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According to a few people on twitter (I know, I know, go with me please) 10 home defeats in a season is a first for us. We've started breaking our own records for utter shitness and we've done a few over the last few years. Going back to McLeish too. Lerner has overseen all of this, so for me he has to answer. I like the guy but we need some bloody leadership and understanding at the top.
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16 losses from 32. Pathetic
11 from last 18.
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That's it now, next season I think I will go and see a play at the rep on Saturday afternoons, at least it's comfortable and getting a pre-ordered drink at half time saves the queuing, I also have a slightly better chance of being entertained.
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I honestly thought the McLeish year would be as bad as it would get at VP, we picked up what 19 points under him?
Well I think we won't beat that, we need another win and I can't see us beating Southampton who will dominate possession against us and have loads of goalscoring threat and Hull as Bruce has a really good record as a manager at VP, think we will draw that.
And can anyone see us improving at home next season under this manager?
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At least we are winning the ones against the teams below us. ;D
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And can anyone see us improving at home next season under this manager?
That's the key for me.
There has to be some sort of indication that, if he stays on, he will improve us.
That needed to be there at the end of last season, and looking at where we are now, he's failed.
Is anyone really convinced if he stays he will improve us?
To me we just look like a club bobbing around at the arse end of the table year after year, just waiting for the trap door to open. Like Wigan were. Eventually it'll happen.
I have no faith in anyone at Villa Park any more, I'm afraid - manager, chairman, CEO, players, none of them. Just look at the gobsmacking fucking mess they've created.
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We went on the VP tour in the April of the McLeish season, and there was a really depressing atmosphere about the place, but also a feeling of 'once this joker is gone, we can get things right'. One of the tour guides even said as much to me. I'd imagine there's a strong feeling of deja vu around the Trinity this April.
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According to a few people on twitter (I know, I know, go with me please) 10 home defeats in a season is a first for us. We've started breaking our own records for utter shitness and we've done a few over the last few years. Going back to McLeish too. Lerner has overseen all of this, so for me he has to answer. I like the guy but we need some bloody leadership and understanding at the top.
This. But there will be no accountability.
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According to a few people on twitter (I know, I know, go with me please) 10 home defeats in a season is a first for us. We've started breaking our own records for utter shitness and we've done a few over the last few years. Going back to McLeish too. Lerner has overseen all of this, so for me he has to answer. I like the guy but we need some bloody leadership and understanding at the top.
This. But there will be no accountability.
Lerner must be happy his father made all that money for him and his family, because if it was up to him to make a fortune, he'd be living in a tin shed with his business nous.
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What happens if Lambert gets the chop? We're still stuck with a lot of the rubbish he's signed. It's a shambles, it really is. God knows how we're going to get out of the situation; we're in the position of hanging on and hoping Lambert will come good, or getting shot and starting over again with the new guy having to do a massive clear out and rebuilding job. Again. Is there money for that? Is there money for Lambert?
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I actually don't think most of the players are rubbish. I think they have massively underperformed. We know they can play. If they were rubbish they wouldn't have gotten some of the results that they have, or scored some of the goals that we've scored. They are clearly now lacking a consistency of direction and are going into game unprepared. That's inexcusable.
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What happens if Lambert gets the chop? We're still stuck with a lot of the rubbish he's signed. It's a shambles, it really is. God knows how we're going to get out of the situation; we're in the position of hanging on and hoping Lambert will come good, or getting shot and starting over again with the new guy having to do a massive clear out and rebuilding job. Again. Is there money for that? Is there money for Lambert?
If there's no money, then trust me, this squad is getting relegated next season, if it doesn't happen this season.
This isn't all about today's result. We have been awful almost the entire season, truly awful. Can anyone really say they think we look better than last year?
I'd also point out that unlike, say, Newcastle, who went down and kept almost all the players they wanted to hang on to, how well do you think this squad would actually do in the Championship?
We have four players who are consistently good enough at the top level - Guzan, Vlaar, Delph, Benteke. Possibly five with Gabby. The rest of them are woefully unconvincing, and they look like a bunch of players who should be playing for a mid table Championship club.
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I think there is money. The board now seriously need to consider who they are going to allow to spend it.
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I think there is money. The board now seriously need to consider who they are going to allow to spend it.
I think there is going to be a lot less money than we thought there'd be now Benteke is long term injured.
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I actually don't think most of the players are rubbish. I think they have massively underperformed. We know they can play. If they were rubbish they wouldn't have gotten some of the results that they have, or scored some of the goals that we've scored. They are clearly now lacking a consistency of direction and are going into game unprepared. That's inexcusable.
The team is consistently poor though, and I'm convinced now that the wins we've had are merely flashes of a group of players getting it right every so often. Same goes for Lambert IMO. Not to say all of his signings have been crap, because that's just not true. However, he still hasn't sorted the defence and midfield sufficiently. Whether that's down to financial constraints or down to a managerial plan that has gone awry is open for conjecture. Either way, the current situation isn't good enough, and, for me, it looks like we've entered into a proper tailspin off the pitch as well as on.
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I no longer want this manager. I made my mind up about that a while ago in fact. That said, I definitely do not want this board choosing his successor.
Therefore the only respite I see is a complete change form top to bottom. Which may or may not be coming but there's nothing obvious in that regard.
Alas, if it does not, we will stumble from one catastrophe to another including relegation, which may even happen this season.
I know we've had some shitty luck with injuries, but the bottom line is what is coming in after them is poorer than it should be. Some of his own buys are no long trusted to even make this bench. Piss poor show.
GFTO of this club.
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How can anybody say we have improved from last season?
For weeks we have had to put up with the same people banging on about Lambert 'bringing the plan through'.
Anybody care to defend him now?
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I think we'd get spanked every week in the championship. Each of those cup games against lower league opposition (Bradford, Millwall, etc) showed we have no grit or ability to raise ourselves. We just take whatever's being dished out. I have no faith in the players or management to get the job done.
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Title of the thread says it all really.
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I'm sick & tired of watching other teams celebrating at Villa Park.
It's not rocket science, we need better players, we need men not boys.
Lambert must see what we do and he is working within the restrictions that Lerner has set. Until those restrictions are lifted things won't improve.
It's just a question of how long we can tolerate the shite. Personally no longer. When the ambition returns, so will I.
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There have been restrictions but what money has been spent has not been spent all that well. Particularly last summer.
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Didn't Faulkner in his last Q&A session say the club was addressing the problem of the home form?
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Look, there will be money to spend this summer. Is he the guy to spend it? For the first time, I am not so sure.
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Didn't Faulkner in his last Q&A session say the club was addressing the problem of the home form?
If he said that he really does need sacking.
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I feel sorry for people who go week in week out which is a terrible thing to say, truth is I used to envy them & until MONs final season I was a season ticket holder too. This season I've been once, last season I went twice. As you can tell I've been weened of it, it won't take anything more now for me to say enough is enough, I won't go again this season, it's dire and what's worse is I don't even watch it at home anymore, I'll find any old excuse to avoid us on Sky or an illegal stream, quite honestly cutting the grass and helping the wife in the garden is more appealing.
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I stopped going to watch the first team at the end of last season because i just did not enjoy the football we play under Lambert. I still go to watch the reserves and the youths,the reason being because at least under Cowans and McAndrew we play attacking football. We play with at least one winger and every single player gives his all. The joy on the players face's when we scored the winning goal in the last minute the other night against the baggies shows they care to
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I hate ,absolutely hate, away fans celebrating goals and wins at Villa Park. It has been a dreadful dreadful season for that. Something that I can not recall in my 40+ years of going down there. I am just fed up now.
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When you think back to the Norwich game we got fortunate Benteke produced an amazing goal out of little that completely turned the game, we were losing 1 nil and the crowd were starting to dissent so that game could've easily gone the way of today or most other home games. Really what will keep us up is that comeback and the WBA one, pretty flukely when you think about it. If it wasn't we would win more home games.
I have to say I'm amazed the crowds have held up so well this season. I know 33k isn't great in the context of a 42k stadium (and talk of extending it to 50k in our present state is very very daft imo) but when you consider we've won about 10 home games in 3 years I think it's pretty good.
Our average attendance is on a par with Everton who have had brilliant form at Goodison in the last 18 months.
Villa Park is just an easy place to come for visiting teams. Location, facilities, pitch, crowd. Difference this season is that the teams who are hopeless away like Fulham, Stoke and West Ham who I think all had just 1 away win when they came to VP are all coming here and winning.
I've started to lapse now. Didn't go today or Stoke (or Norwich) and I seriously aren't sure even if I'll go to Southampton or Hull now.
Seriously disillusioned with the state of this club atm. I want to most of the home games in the TSM season and last season so it's not a boycott just because we're crap but being in constant relegation battles and barely winning 5 home games a season take its toll eventually.
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I gave up my season ticket 3 season ago due to being completely bewildered by the way the club was going. I was the last in a group of around ten that did.
I still go every now and again when I can be arsed but in recent weeks i've even turned down free tickets twice. Something i find quite staggering and depressing in equal measure.
Sadly I just can't muster the enthusiasm and effort to go through the painful process every other week anymore. I've been ground down to the point where it's a chore not a pleasure. I get even less pleasure knowing my 12 year old nephew can't even be talked into going. That's another future supporter slipping away, just one of thousands i'm sure.
The club is rotten. Top to bottom. And when you feel like you're being ignored or having the piss taken out of you as a supporter, then it's a long hard slog to get back on side.
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The thing is, when people stop, it's going to take a hell of of lot of effort to get them back.
Season ticket sales will be non-existent.
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Season ticket sales will be non-existent.
I've been saying this for a while. I saw a stat last week that said we'd lost 48% of our home games in the last three seasons under McLeish and Lambert. It's an absolutely appalling home record and fans will quite reasonably vote with their feet next season unless there is a significant change of policy in our club.
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And what do you think the absent Lerner and that idiot Faulkner will do?
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
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And what do you think the absent Lerner and that idiot Faulkner will do?
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
Unfortunately you are pretty much spot on there.
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And what do you think the absent Lerner and that idiot Faulkner will do?
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
The chuckle brothers will probably just offer him a new contract.
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What gets me is there's no media coverage of our demise. We don't even register anymore. No pressure on lambert. It's as if he gets a pass because he plays the "youth". We're a laughing stock
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Thats cause no one outside the supporters gives a fuck about midlands football and the Villa in particular.
WM obviously should do but they seem obsessed with the Olbiyun and Ron Toss is Blose. Meaning Evil just wants to rub noses in it but not actually get at the issues as they're basically lazy - see also the situation at Blose.
As for the nationals, we're totally irrelevant thanks to this bunch of clueless nerks. The centers of football are London, Manchester and Liverpool. Fuck the rest.
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Even Newcastle's regular bad runs are being mentioned in the papers all the time - although Pardew does attract the headlines with his touchline antics. What does Lambert offer journalists? The guy just sits there regardless of whether his team is losing (most likely) or winning (once in a lucky blue moon).
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Why are we so crap at home though? It's been going on for a sustained period of time, so there must be a reason behind it. If it's down to the manager, what's he doing wrong? As bad as this squad is, they're better than a lot of the teams we've lost to. Baffling.
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What gets me is there's no media coverage of our demise. We don't even register anymore. No pressure on lambert. It's as if he gets a pass because he plays the "youth". We're a laughing stock
To be fair Pat Murphy did pin him down about home form yesterday in post match press Conf and Tim Abraham from talk sport carried on that theme with his questioning. Lambert squirmed and said something that at best I didn't understand and at worst were feeble and implausible words.
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What gets me is there's no media coverage of our demise. We don't even register anymore. No pressure on lambert. It's as if he gets a pass because he plays the "youth". We're a laughing stock
To be fair Pat Murphy did pin him down about home form yesterday in post match press Conf and Tim Abraham from talk sport carried on that theme with his questioning. Lambert squirmed and said something that at best I didn't understand and at worst were feeble and implausible words.
Do you have a link?
But yes the original point is that our profile is below that of Southampton nowadays
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The post match interview with Pat Murphy was embarrassingly bad.
And Paul Lambert's answers weren't much better either.
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It is embarrassing, indefensible, inexcusable, untenable, etc. But there's still no way the board will realise it - they'll think 'how can they complain about the home form when we've beaten City and Chelsea?'.
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Why are we so crap at home though? It's been going on for a sustained period of time, so there must be a reason behind it. If it's down to the manager, what's he doing wrong? As bad as this squad is, they're better than a lot of the teams we've lost to. Baffling.
We've had 4 years of asset stripping where we've sold our best players and replaced them with substandard lower league players, that's why we're so shit at home. It's not rocket science. We've been run on a (relative) shoe string over the last 4 years. You can't run a Premier League club on Championship wages, and that's the main problem at Villa.
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We weren't all that great at home under MON either though.
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We weren't all that great at home under MON either though.
we rarely lost though at home under MON though. its the constant enjoyment had by visiting fans at VP this season that's just so depressing.
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We weren't all that great at home under MON either though.
we rarely lost though at home under MON though. its the constant enjoyment had by visiting fans at VP this season that's just so depressing.
19 league defeats at home under Lambert. A quite disgraceful stat. He should be sacked for that alone.
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Under MON
06-07 - 4 home defeats 7 wins
07-08 - 6 home defeats 10 wins
08-09 - 3 home defeats 7 wins
09-10 -3 home defeats 8 wins
by far biggest problem at home under MON was too many draws.
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We've had 4 years of asset stripping where we've sold our best players and replaced them with substandard lower league players, that's why we're so shit at home. It's not rocket science. We've been run on a (relative) shoe string over the last 4 years. You can't run a Premier League club on Championship wages, and that's the main problem at Villa.
We've generally been better away from home for the last few years though, and worse teams than us have better home records than us. I know Villa are going downhill at the moment, but not winning at home isn't a new thing for us. This isn't an argument for this thread and to be honest I'm boring myself with it, but I don't want Lambert sacked. One thing that really, really frustrates me about him though is his stubbornness with the home tactics when it clearly isn't working.
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Under MON
06-07 - 4 home defeats 7 wins
07-08 - 6 home defeats 10 wins
08-09 - 3 home defeats 7 wins
09-10 -3 home defeats 8 wins
by far biggest problem at home under MON was too many draws.
We used to be difficult to beat though, we could claw back a draw even if we didn't win.
Haven't we had more draw results than any other ever-present Premiership club?
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Under MON
06-07 - 4 home defeats 7 wins
07-08 - 6 home defeats 10 wins
08-09 - 3 home defeats 7 wins
09-10 -3 home defeats 8 wins
by far biggest problem at home under MON was too many draws.
We used to be difficult to beat though, we could claw back a draw even if we didn't win.
Haven't we had more draw results than any other ever-present Premiership club?
that was always the case pre-O'Neill too. Under Gregory we were a similar type of side but not as good.
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
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We've had 4 years of asset stripping where we've sold our best players and replaced them with substandard lower league players, that's why we're so shit at home. It's not rocket science. We've been run on a (relative) shoe string over the last 4 years. You can't run a Premier League club on Championship wages, and that's the main problem at Villa.
We've generally been better away from home for the last few years though, and worse teams than us have better home records than us. I know Villa are going downhill at the moment, but not winning at home isn't a new thing for us. This isn't an argument for this thread and to be honest I'm boring myself with it, but I don't want Lambert sacked. One thing that really, really frustrates me about him though is his stubbornness with the home tactics when it clearly isn't working.
It's not the fact we aren't winning though Tom - we keep losing - convert half these home losses into draws and we are on 39 points and comfortable if not exciting. The "good away from home" idea is wearing a bit thin now - no win since Jan 1st isn't it?
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
You may just have spotted the problem there mate
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You're right about the good away form. I hesitated before writing it which is why I wrote 'generally.'
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We've had 4 years of asset stripping where we've sold our best players and replaced them with substandard lower league players, that's why we're so shit at home. It's not rocket science. We've been run on a (relative) shoe string over the last 4 years. You can't run a Premier League club on Championship wages, and that's the main problem at Villa.
We've generally been better away from home for the last few years though, and worse teams than us have better home records than us. I know Villa are going downhill at the moment, but not winning at home isn't a new thing for us. This isn't an argument for this thread and to be honest I'm boring myself with it, but I don't want Lambert sacked. One thing that really, really frustrates me about him though is his stubbornness with the home tactics when it clearly isn't working.
Sorry but you can't just dismiss 19 home defeats in less than 2 seasons like that. It's a diabolical stat. We've never ever been this bad at home before no matter how some may try to dress it up otherwise. Lambert has to go before he inflicts more damage onto the club.
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Going to home games expecting a defeat - regardless of the opposition - is just not on. I'm as optimistic as the next man but over time I simply expect less and less. I will renew though, I always will.
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We've still only won two less than we did in Mon's final season when we finished 6th. It's very unlikely but theoretically we could still equal that by winning the last two home games this season.
The difference nowadays we just lose games at home instead of the endless draws we used to have under MON in the crucial run in.
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Anybody remember that Celeveland Browns fan who said that Lerner had turned their stadium into "a factory of sadness"? I found it funny then, but find myself empathising with him nowadays.
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We'll rebrand it to that next season. Or the house if horrors.
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I didn't use my season ticket yesterday, the whole thing was so predictable. It's like watching a shit film over and over hoping the ending will change.
I'm not going again until Lambert is gone.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
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We've still only won two less than we did in Mon's final season when we finished 6th. It's very unlikely but theoretically we could still equal that by winning the last two home games this season.
The difference nowadays we just lose games at home instead of the endless draws we used to have under MON in the crucial run in.
But more importantly we've lost 10 home games. That's why we're struggling at the wrong end of the table and not competing for a top 6 place like we were under O'Neill.
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
No that's not the case. Whilst fortress Villa Park has never been there not even in the season we won the Championship I can not remember anything as bad as this season. I expect a club the size of ours to win at least 60% of the home games with a few draws and the odd defeat now and then but maximum 3. This season losing games particularly to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, Stoke and now Fulham is NOT acceptable.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
For me that sums it up perfectly!
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
For me that sums it up perfectly!
Best post on here in ages.
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I hate ,absolutely hate, away fans celebrating goals and wins at Villa Park. It has been a dreadful dreadful season for that. Something that I can not recall in my 40+ years of going down there. I am just fed up now.
Under Lambert walking out of the North stand up Witton Lane against a tide of celebrating away fans has become Groundhog Day.
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Having slept on yesterday's latest humiliating surrender (broken sleep) ,I think we as fans have been to passive,Lerner has got away with murder and we either don't go anymore or we sit there,the odd muted boos or leave early.If I remember correctly Liverpool and Manure fans have forcibly demonstrated against their owners in the recent past (both American) it's time for us to do the same FORCIBLY or are we too down trodden to do it?
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Having slept on yesterday's latest humiliating surrender (broken sleep) ,I think we as fans have been to passive,Lerner has got away with murder and we either don't go anymore or we sit there,the odd muted boos or leave early.If I remember correctly Liverpool and Manure fans have forcibly demonstrated against their owners in the recent past (both American) it's time for us to do the same FORCIBLY or are we too down trodden to do it?
Agreed. When Ellis was here the fans were never shy to protest but under Lerner there's so much apathy. Fans just sit there and say nothing other than a few muted boos at the final whistle.
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
No that's not the case. Whilst fortress Villa Park has never been there not even in the season we won the Championship I can not remember anything as bad as this season. I expect a club the size of ours to win at least 60% of the home games with a few draws and the odd defeat now and then but maximum 3. This season losing games particularly to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, Stoke and now Fulham is NOT acceptable.
We haven't won 60% of home games for a long long time.
Our best home season in the last 10 years was 07/08 when we won 10/19. Even that season we still had 6 defeats so not a million miles off this one.
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
No that's not the case. Whilst fortress Villa Park has never been there not even in the season we won the Championship I can not remember anything as bad as this season. I expect a club the size of ours to win at least 60% of the home games with a few draws and the odd defeat now and then but maximum 3. This season losing games particularly to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, Stoke and now Fulham is NOT acceptable.
We haven't won 60% of home games for a long long time.
Our best home season in the last 10 years was 07/08 when we won 10/19. Even that season we still had 6 defeats so not a million miles off this one.
We've lost 10 home games already this season and it could be more. How anyone can claim the 6 defeats in 07/08 isn't a million miles off this season's record is beyond me. An extra 4 home defeats over a season is an awful stat when you only play 19 games.
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Having slept on yesterday's latest humiliating surrender (broken sleep) ,I think we as fans have been to passive,Lerner has got away with murder and we either don't go anymore or we sit there,the odd muted boos or leave early.If I remember correctly Liverpool and Manure fans have forcibly demonstrated against their owners in the recent past (both American) it's time for us to do the same FORCIBLY or are we too down trodden to do it?
Agreed. When Ellis was here the fans were never shy to protest but under Lerner there's so much apathy. Fans just sit there and say nothing other than a few muted boos at the final whistle.
It's possibly because Doug was usually at the game. Lerner keeps out of the way.
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Lerner isn't there to direct these 'requests' at, that is a big problem. He's an absentee landlord, our boiler is broken, our basement flooded, our roof leaking and he is thousands of miles away oblivious to the gravity of the situation.
Doug was at every game so he a) felt our pain when things were going wrong and b) was there to hear our calls for a new manager or investment. Lerner has a buffer of Faulkner and Lambert who filter out the fans concerns and tell him about 'progress' where in reality there is none.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
Exactly how I see it mate. Excellent post.
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Is the problem then that we've always been a bit crap? Eureka!
No that's not the case. Whilst fortress Villa Park has never been there not even in the season we won the Championship I can not remember anything as bad as this season. I expect a club the size of ours to win at least 60% of the home games with a few draws and the odd defeat now and then but maximum 3. This season losing games particularly to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, Stoke and now Fulham is NOT acceptable.
We haven't won 60% of home games for a long long time.
Our best home season in the last 10 years was 07/08 when we won 10/19. Even that season we still had 6 defeats so not a million miles off this one.
Or looking at it the other way... in 140 years we have never lost 10 games at home... which beats the joint record, matched last year, of 9.
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Excellent post Jimbo. The other parallel with 1984 is that Winston had all his teeth compulsorily extracted so that he could not bite. Just how I feel.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
Exactly how I see it mate. Excellent post.
Yep, sadly it looks pretty much spot on for me too
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
Exactly how I see it mate. Excellent post.
Yep, sadly it looks pretty much spot on for me too
Thirded, and another fine bit of writing from Jimbo.
The factory of sadness, a downward spiral, a slough of despond and now the vision of a boot stamping on a human face, forever. I think we have moved beyond "Catch 22" to the horrors of "A Clockwork Orange".
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Yes Spot on Jimbo
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Jimbo nails it.
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Spot on Jimbo.
They probably think Villa Park is too good for us now.
Very sad stateo f affairs.
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Worst home form in the club's almost-140 year history, if you throw in the home records of Lambert, McCleish and Houiller. Actually Houiller's home form looks positively spectacular in comparison to the other two.
The home support, who turn out in large numbers (our average home gate is still well over 30000) deserve much better than this. Yet yesterday was the first time I've heard any largish scale "we want Lambert out" chanting. A testament to the patience of our club's support.
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On the brighter side despite all the gloom two of our home goals in March are featured in the March GotM on MotD.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future. It reminded me of the scene in Orwell's 1984, when Winston is told that, to get a picture of the future, he should imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's not the first time that image has occurred to me when following the Villa.
To use another literary reference, we're in a footballing catch 22 situation. We need to sack Lambert, but we can't trust our board to replace him adequately. Our manager is incompetent, often incoherent, and his record is - as the thread title states - indefensible. In any other Villa era, he'd have been sacked twice by now. But our disinterested, passive, absentee owner and his clean cut yes man have made three shockingly dreadful appointments already (each time the process was farcical) and we're now perennial relegation strugglers as a direct result of their mismanagement of the club.
The owner and CEO don't know what they're doing, the manager is winging it, and the players are coasting comfortably in a club culture where failure is the norm and there is no expectation to excel. It's a certain recipe for disaster, and that's what we'll all be facing unless this chain of incompetence and failure is broken. Randy Lerner, it's over to you.
Exactly how I see it mate. Excellent post.
Yep, sadly it looks pretty much spot on for me too
Thirded, and another fine bit of writing from Jimbo.
The factory of sadness, a downward spiral, a slough of despond and now the vision of a boot stamping on a human face, forever. I think we have moved beyond "Catch 22" to the horrors of "A Clockwork Orange".
Yes Catch 22 was funny, we are in a much darker place.
Great post Jimbo.
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Oh and to use the phrase from Clockwork Orange 'Real Horror Show'
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On the brighter side despite all the gloom two of our home goals in March are featured in the March GotM on MotD.
Did Bentekes bicycle feature in Febs?
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On the brighter side despite all the gloom two of our home goals in March are featured in the March GotM on MotD.
Did Bentekes bicycle feature in Febs?
No it was in March's yesterday (MOTD2).
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I think we need a modern foreign coach to be our manager and serious serious financial backing and transform the club.
Look at Liverpool when Brendan Rodgers took over and now. Look at us since Paul Lambert :(
I think we need Manchester City type take over to transform it big time. I noticed they and Chelsea rarely buy bad players. I think we need a reboot of everything from boardroom and coaching staff and policies. I would like to see a board with Brian Little, Graham Taylor, Ron Atkinson, Sir Dennis Mortimer, Gareth Southgate and few foreign Villa ex player and get the next generation Gerald Houllier to take over Aston Villa and do it for the Villa like Arsene Wenger do it for Arsenal.
Aston Villa had been so poor it doesn't make me want to go to the match and watch them. I need passion, excitement, goals, fun and quality football. I don't need football to keep me happy as I got Salsa for this.
When Paul Lambert took over, I thought he will be an excellent choice and make us English answer to Borussia Dortmund and use their methods. I am very disappointed it, if I own the club he already got his P45.
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Liverpool had spent a shed load before Rodgers got there and have spent plenty since. They had a much better and deeper squad than us and have the revenue stream to carry on investing. We didn't. They also had a number of excellent PL proven players and a couple of world class ones. I understand why you might make the comparison, and not to take away what Rogers has done because he's done really well, but its apples and pears in terms of circumstances and resources.
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I was amazed at the crowd yesterday. There were jeers and boos of course, but on the whole they seemed pretty inured to it all. What Villa fans have gone through for the past four seasons has browbeaten them, yet they still turn up in reasonably good numbers. So much for a fickle fan base.
What I also noticed was the lack of hope and resignation to a bleak future.
Those of us turning up at VP for home matches have taken a lot of grief to accommodate the Club strategy and the manager's regular one fuck up after another. We have got there more or less in hope rather than belief. Amazing how many of us turned up still in hope for the Sheffield Utd game despite the manager denouncing the FA cup as mere nuisance. To me that was a significant event in finally it being clear that as long as we make 17th or above every season no one will bat an eyelid.
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However you analyse, dress up or justify things, 10 defeats at home in one season is an absolute disgrace. If the board think they'll retain as many as two thirds of this year's ST holders next season, they're in for a shock.
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So, even if we win or draw our last 2 home games, over the last two seasons, we will have LOST 19 of our home games...50%.
Christ, that is a whole seasons worth of home games in 2 years !!!
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So, even if we win or draw our last 2 home games, over the last two seasons, we will have LOST 19 of our home games...50%.
Christ, that is a whole seasons worth of home games in 2 years !!!
Yep. Proud history...
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So, even if we win or draw our last 2 home games, over the last two seasons, we will have LOST 19 of our home games...50%.
Christ, that is a whole seasons worth of home games in 2 years !!!
Abysmal.
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Being the old bastard that I am I was around in the 69-70 season when we dropped into the old 3rd division, because we were so poor that season I assumed our home form was similar to now but over 21 home games the record was W 7 D8 L6, abysmal away form sent us down, as shit as it was then It did not feel as grim as now or is that because I was a young and hopeful 14 year old?
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I imagine that's because in those days you could recover from a low ebb. Now with the money in the game, you've got no hope.
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I imagine that's because in those days you could recover from a low ebb. Now with the money in the game, you've got no hope.
Your probably right, it was a very different football world compared to today, these days we are all so terrified of relegation from the premier league and the likely consequences.
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Being the old bastard that I am I was around in the 69-70 season when we dropped into the old 3rd division, because we were so poor that season I assumed our home form was similar to now but over 21 home games the record was W 7 D8 L6, abysmal away form sent us down, as shit as it was then It did not feel as grim as now or is that because I was a young and hopeful 14 year old?
I'm the same sort of age.
Yes we were young and hopeful but with good reason. Despite the shock of relegation when we had started the season as favourites for promotion, the club had been pulled back from the brink of bankruptcy on crowds of 13,000. The short exciting Docherty period had blown the cobwebs away and Doug was sorting out the financial side. Big signings like Bruce Rioch stayed to bring us back up within a couple of seasons. These days the agents would be getting them out the club.
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Being the old bastard that I am I was around in the 69-70 season when we dropped into the old 3rd division, because we were so poor that season I assumed our home form was similar to now but over 21 home games the record was W 7 D8 L6, abysmal away form sent us down, as shit as it was then It did not feel as grim as now or is that because I was a young and hopeful 14 year old?
I'm the same sort of age.
Yes we were young and hopeful but with good reason. Despite the shock of relegation when we had started the season as favourites for promotion, the club had been pulled back from the brink of bankruptcy on crowds of 13,000. The short exciting Docherty period had blown the cobwebs away and Doug was sorting out the financial side. Big signings like Bruce Rioch stayed to bring us back up within a couple of seasons. These days the agents would be getting them out the club.
Yep another old fart here. I think the major difference between then and now is more the way clubs are financed. Back then the majority of the finance would be through gate receipts and therefore if you were capable of generating a large following you would always have the money to fund a recovery.
Nowadays the gate money is a much lower % of turnover with most clubs generating the majority of their turnover by being in the premier league itself. Falling out of the premier league today is a disaster financially which we may take a good while to recover from.
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There are people like my mate who will renew regardless, this is what the club bank on imo, I don't think the club want people to feel this way but at the end of the day as long as Lerner is there we'll struggle because he isn't putting the money in
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And yet another old fart here to folks, I travel up from essex now as an exiled brummie and travel up always in hope that we will play like we did against chelski or man city Norwich etc.but the journey home is so hard lately.
Every game to show how long I been going down I still say to myself "do what gidman did take em on goo take em on" when Bennett or lowton has the ball. Same when kea has the ball and I wish it was frank carrodus or des bremner. Then I sit back in my seat and sigh to myself and tell myself those days are gone.
I really do think the club and players are I the mindset that even if you finish one place above the relegation zone or one place below a Europa league place it really don't matter anymore because being in the prem is what it is all about.then.
But I can still dream about gidman at right back carrodus and his endless energy mortimers drive from midfield can't I then I look down and realise there not there anymore
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The teams that have beaten us at home in the Lambert seasons
Last season:
Everton
Man United
Spurs
Wigan
Southampton
Newcastle
Man City
Liverpool
Chelsea
This season:
Liverpool
Newcastle
Spurs
Everton
Man United
Crystal Palace
Arsenal
West Ham
Stoke
Fulham
It looks like this season we've moved on to losing at home to the poorer sides, something which wasn't so evident last year.
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Inevitable though, I suppose, when you use the exact same tactical approach for each and every game.
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Teams come to Villa Park with great belief now, even if they haven't won away for months. It's a vicious circle under Lambert, the more predictable and poor we are, the more we lose, the more apprehensive we are at home next time around and the more fired up and confident the opposition.
Then there's Man City and Chelsea, who expect to win every away game anyway and turn up complacent at Villa Park, while our level of expectation is so low we have nothing to lose, and put in a better performance.
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It seems that any team in need of a kick start gets exactly that when they play Villa. Bloody useless at home. Fair play to the fans for continuing to turn up in their droves, support the team and not turn against the Manager after yet another loss.
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Teams come to Villa Park with great belief now, even if they haven't won away for months. It's a vicious circle under Lambert, the more predictable and poor we are, the more we lose, the more apprehensive we are at home next time around and the more fired up and confident the opposition.
Then there's Man City and Chelsea, who expect to win every away game anyway and turn up complacent at Villa Park, while our level of expectation is so low we have nothing to lose, and put in a better performance.
I think in games against Chelsea and Man City we don't have a lot of the ball, so when we do get it we have to move quickly to open them up and catch them out of position.
But Fulham (like United the week before) conceded a sizeable amount of possession, so we get up the pitch OK, but then soon run out of space and ideas. We retain the ball pass it about in our own half. This continues until we get closed down, panic and give the ball away in bad areas. Which far too often results in a goal for the opposition.
In both games United and Fulham basically gave us the rope to hang ourselves with.
I think sometimes with the ball, we can look even worse defensively than when we don't have it.
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It seems that any team in need of a kick start gets exactly that when they play Villa. Bloody useless at home. Fair play to the fans for continuing to turn up in their droves, support the team and not turn against the Manager after yet another loss.
I for one will be amazed if that continues to be the case for the remainder of the season.
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The home form alone is enough to see him sacked.
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It seems that any team in need of a kick start gets exactly that when they play Villa. Bloody useless at home. Fair play to the fans for continuing to turn up in their droves, support the team and not turn against the Manager after yet another loss.
I for one will be amazed if that continues to be the case for the remainder of the season.
Either Southampton or Hull (or both) could beat us, I just think the apathy and low crowds will mute any outcry unless we are 4-down at half-time.
Last week there was a concerted effort to support Lambert from the Upper Holte - I wonder if it will continue?
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
I was one of the early leavers vs Stoke. The dominant emotion around the place was one of resignation and acceptance - we're a poor side that makes defensive mistakes and thus concedes!
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
I'd say it had as much to do with with it being 3-1 vs Stoke, or 4-1 depending how late folks stayed for, I was a;ready at the bus stop when someone walked past and said it was 4. Against Bolton it was 2-1 so there was still a chance of a result, I know that's why I stayed until the end that night.
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
Southampton will be the turning point
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
Southampton will be the turning point
We're going to beat Southampton 1-0. I dreamt about it weeks ago.
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
I'd say it had as much to do with with it being 3-1 vs Stoke, or 4-1 depending how late folks stayed for, I was a;ready at the bus stop when someone walked past and said it was 4. Against Bolton it was 2-1 so there was still a chance of a result, I know that's why I stayed until the end that night.
I left my seat just a minute before they got the fourth. Pretty much shocked with the way we played from the 15 minute onwards as expectations were pretty high after beating Chelsea.
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The responses to the Stoke and Fulham defeats were apathetic. Especially Stoke. I have never seen the ground so empty on the final whistle. In contrast to the TSM Bolton game when the vast majority stayed specifically to make their feeling known.
Southampton will be the turning point
We're going to beat Southampton 1-0. I dreamt about it weeks ago.
Feck more apathy at VP. Can't we settle it by an injured star player from both teams engaging in combat? Benteke v Rodriguez thumb war, best of nine.