Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Smirker on September 16, 2013, 11:30:04 PM
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I can't believe the negativity I've seen on here since the Newcastle game. Well actually I can, but can we relax a bit.
We were all completely behind Lambert and rejoicing in the fact that he is our manager and that the board stuck by him after Bradford (I'd say 'we', but many on here wanted him gone), suddenly a bad defeat and an unlucky injury and people are furious and criticising him. Chelsea had a bad result at the weekend, United had a bad result at Anfield. We are four games in.
I trust Lambert, this is early days, we are four games in and have had one excellent result and two decent performances out of our first four games. Now they included three teams who could possibly challenge for the title and/or finish for the top four. We narrowly avoided relegation last season.
Let's put things into perspective please.
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Couldn't agree more with your post. There are "I told you so" merchants on here who just can't wait after a couple of bad results to start hammering away how they were right!
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If I were PL I would be looking for new coaching staff and sort out the flaws and keep eye open on upcoming playmakers.
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Think PL should call on his Viking ancestors and just, well, pillage.
The other option is probably against FA laws.
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After some reflection, I'm hoping that Saturday was just a "stinker" brought on by the fact that we hadn't played for a few weeks. It was way below the level of performance in the previous three games and hopefully we have got it out of our system for this coming weekend. Must admit that the news about Okore is a massive blow though.
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It's definitely a blow, I'm gutted about it but it's just unlucky & it could happen to any team, you can argue he should have bought more defenders but getting Okore in in the first place was a fantastic signing. Saturday was a bad result, I'm sure the players and the manager know that, which is why I think we'll smash Norwich.
Have a bit of faith lads. Lambert is taking us in the right direction.
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I think any regular season-ticket holder over the last few years were entitled to feel exasperated last Saturday. After all the optimism of the end of last season, a decent summer and a promising start to the season in difficult games, we once again were lacklustre in a bread and butter game - a common failing at VP. In some ways it was worse than the hiding we got in our first home game last season against Everton - at least they were a top side.
If anything, we - and especially folk who fork out hundreds of pound a year to attend VP, have been pretty measured in their constructive criticism. Our home form, both performances and results, is an utter joke.
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I think of myself as a positive supporter but I am one of the negative brigade right now.
Just sick and tired of looking down season after season, sick and tired of my club being regarded as an easy touch at home, angry that money buys the league and we are not in the money spending business anymore, negative about the season and back to dreading each game instead of looking forward to it.
I think I need a break from football to be honest. I should take one and not bring you lot down.
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I am sick of people making excuses for poor home performances and by the way all teams had a break.
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I know , the latest one was where the away fans sit , ffs
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I know , the latest one was where the away fans sit , ffs
That was me and I only did so to suggest something that might help because I am sick of other teams coming away from VP with three points.
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I actually noticed that Sunderland have moved away fans from behind the goal. I've not really been on much since Newcastle as I knew the mood would be shit, when your not winning (again) the mood will change. I think people are fed up of not winning games, speaking for myself I'm sick to the back teeth of it. It is early days but after 4 games again were hovering over bottom 4. I know it's early days but already were looking poor defensively and losing Okore is massive at this stage. Can't buy till January and I'm not convinced we will or if we do can Lambert buy the right player? He hasn't so far (in defence) Okore looked a good signing but we won't see anything now and Vlaar, baker, Clark don't do it for me. why we didn't strengthen more is beyond me
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When I saw the opening four fixtures I thought we'd be on three points. The fact those three points came away at Arsenal is the only difference. We are in amongst a group of 12 sides who'll be consistently inconsistent this season. There'll be Mondays on here when we'll see positive predictions of grabbing 8th spot after we've gone and got a result at somewhere like Anfield and other Mondays where it'll be doom and gloom after we've got turned over at Selhurst Park. That's football fans though, emotional rather than logical.
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I am sick of people making excuses for poor home performances and by the way all teams had a break.
Who's making excuses? It was a bad defeat.
We had a lot to shout about post Arsenal, I just find the way the optimism has completely gone, reactionary.
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Did someone mention the word 'fickle'? Bunch of sugarbags.
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I think the negativity is part of the reason for being shite at home, the moans and groans after a misplaced pass can't help spur on the lads. The very small minority booing on Saturday left me shaking my head in disbelief.
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I agree with your sentiment Leeg, however yet another home defeat to a very poor Newcastle side combined with such a poor performance left people entitled to a bit of spleen-venting.
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37 points, 34 games to play....
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I think the negativity is part of the reason for being shite at home, the moans and groans after a misplaced pass can't help spur on the lads. The very small minority booing on Saturday left me shaking my head in disbelief.
I thought I heard people booing too. Disappointing.
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I think the negativity is part of the reason for being shite at home, the moans and groans after a misplaced pass can't help spur on the lads. The very small minority booing on Saturday left me shaking my head in disbelief.
I thought I heard people booing too. Disappointing.
There was definite booing at half and full time in the Holte.
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I think any regular season-ticket holder over the last few years were entitled to feel exasperated last Saturday. After all the optimism of the end of last season, a decent summer and a promising start to the season in difficult games, we once again were lacklustre in a bread and butter game - a common failing at VP. In some ways it was worse than the hiding we got in our first home game last season against Everton - at least they were a top side.
If anything, we - and especially folk who fork out hundreds of pound a year to attend VP, have been pretty measured in their constructive criticism. Our home form, both performances and results, is an utter joke.
This sums it up for me. After three years of struggling it was hard at the final whistle on Saturday to avoid thinking here we go again.
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I think my reaction came from the way I had framed the game. In my head I had the game as an acid test. Yes we'd played well in the games before, but we were at home to a side who we should be beating if we want to finish top 8.
Losing obviously doesn't bar us from doing well this campaign, but it was so disappointing to see us fail yet again. The only crumb of comfort I can take, is rather oddly, from the fact so many players played so poorly that you may just well be able to chalk it up to one of those days.
It wasn't a case of "this is the best we can do" as anybody who truly believes that I think is badly wrong. We know we can play a lot better, we've seen us play a lot better this season. There were five or six rank performances, some curious tactics and odd behaviour going which aided Newcastle to their win.
Things have to change at home. We need to be doubling the win tally; 10 wins at home isn't a great deal to ask for.
I am rather positive about Saturday though, as I think we're a good away side.
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I missed the story about okore getting injured - is he going to be out for a long time?
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The league table doesnt lie
2011/12 we finished 5th from bottom [2 points off a possible relegation place]
2012/13 we finished 6th from bottom [5 points off a possible relegation place]
After 4 games of 2013/14 we are 4th from bottom
Is it going to get better?
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I missed the story about okore getting injured - is he going to be out for a long time?
Not sure if sarcastic but he's ruptured his ACL and is out for up to 9 months.
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That's not a fair argument when we have had three of the toughest fixtures going to open our campaign. If we're still in the same position in 8-10 games time, then you can raise that argument.
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I know , the latest one was where the away fans sit , ffs
That was me and I only did so to suggest something that might help because I am sick of other teams coming away from VP with three points.
not the away fans fault IV . Its the manager , coaches and team Im afraid
I couldnt believe how dull the atmosphere was on Saturday but having witnessed that tripe , you cant blame the fans for not getting excited . I mean , I was in shock with what I was watching.
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Shit news about the acl injury- pretty much the rest of the season then. That's a real pisser.
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I agree with your sentiment Leeg, however yet another home defeat to a very poor Newcastle side combined with such a poor performance left people entitled to a bit of spleen-venting.
I agree
The team played badly, so moaning at the ground and online is perfectly acceptable.
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The team played badly and we can only hope it was a blip, but its disappointing not to have played better at home. We can argue about team set up and substitutions that maybe should have been made but at the end of the day Paul Lambert is manager and I trust him. His knockers need to take a look at the bigger picture and this is still work in progress, we are not going to storm up the league just because we escaped relegation last season.
Booing is childish and totally not supportive so pack it in.
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Personally I thought some of the comments on the post match thread on Saturday were way over the top. I know a lot of people tend to post straight after the game and a lot of it was frustration but when you see people talking about relegation battles after four games and giving Lambert till Christmas, you wonder what goes on in people's heads.
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Personally I thought some of the comments on the post match thread on Saturday were way over the top. I know a lot of people tend to post straight after the game and a lot of it was frustration but when you see people talking about relegation battles after four games and giving Lambert till Christmas, you wonder what goes on in people's heads.
It's comments like that I was referring to, really.
We may or may not be in a relegation battle this season but as has been pointed out numerous times, it's one bad result and a massive overreaction imho.
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Personally I thought some of the comments on the post match thread on Saturday were way over the top. I know a lot of people tend to post straight after the game and a lot of it was frustration but when you see people talking about relegation battles after four games and giving Lambert till Christmas, you wonder what goes on in people's heads.
It's comments like that I was referring to, really.
We may or may not be in a relegation battle this season but as has been pointed out numerous times, it's one bad result and a massive overreaction imho.
Its not just one bad result though is it, we hardly set the world alight last season.
Simply because we had a summer break you can't just forget last season [or the ones before] you have to ask are we seeing a repeating pattern of Lamberts Villa?
We were also awful against Liverpool for much of the game
I hope that it was just a poor performance but I honestly think we may struggle again this season, but I hope not
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The Project....see the bigger picture...Work in Progress. We're football fans, not management consultants.We don't calmly evaluate situations, we react instantly. That's the way it always has been and always should be with football.
And although I've never done it myself ( Millwall last year being the only exception) I've no probem with fans booing a team off at full time. Better than doing it during the game and a perfect way of expressing your reaction to a shit performance. I'd like to think that a bit of booing from fans is the least of the players' worries - I'd imagine/hope that Lambert put the fear of God into them in the dressing room on Saturday evening.
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Its not just one bad result though is it, we hardly set the world alight last season.
But last season was last season and as it went on we got a lot better, he had just inherited a shit team from a shit manager, it takes time to rid the club of the deadwood and put his own stamp on the team.
Players have left, players have signed. This isn't the same team as last year. The home form is bad, don't get me wrong, but I trust we will improve on it.
If we had had the same manager for the past three seasons then I could understand some of the criticisms toward Lambert but not when he's barely been in the job 5 minutes.
Simply because we had a summer break you can't just forget last season [or the ones before] you have to ask are we seeing a repeating pattern of Lamberts Villa?
I'm not forgetting them but they are not relevant to now.
We were also awful against Liverpool for much of the game
I don't think we were. We started off slow, but awful?
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I agree with this, the mood on this site has flipped alarmingly quickly from generally very positive after 1 win in 3 to painfully negative after another defeat. I think a lot of people expected a win and this has really shaken them but there needs to be some consideration of the positives that we'd been seeing previously that led to it being such a massive shock to us.
We are a lot better than we showed on Saturday, we just didn't have the energy levels that our style needs to work, it looked to me like the 3 weeks without a league game affected us far more than it should have.
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I think many of us (me included) were expecting a win over a club who appeared to be in dissaray. Not 4-0,5-1 etc but something like 2-0
and we didnt get it. Paul Lambert and his coaching staff show no signs that they are capable of organising a defence that can keep the ball out of our net.They have been at Villa Park quite long enough to have improved things in this respect.
Other than that he is doing a good job with limited finance. But I think some of you overrate his abilities.I dont think he will prove to be another Sir Alex.
Lets hope for an improved performance and a draw at the very least from Norwich.
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It's hard not to be negative after 3 years of relegation scrapping, and starting this season having not addressed many of the reasons behind our struggles of late. I like Lambert, but I do feel sometimes that he needs a more experienced head working with him, or at least a tactically astute number two. I mean with O Neill for example it was considered by some that the tactical side was left for Robertson to deal with. Now granted we weren't always the most fantastic side to watch, but we finished 6th, 3 years running for good reason. Even Redknapp is apparently not much of a tactician, but even if the man doing the motivating isn't, you need someone in the coaching team who can fine tune everything. We don't appear to really have that.
I see us being very good at being able to pick teams off on the counter, when they leave themselves exposed. The trouble is, if teams don't give us the space, we have no other plan. We have an innate inability, largely down to our dire defending, to grind out results. Some games you really need to just dig deep and scrape out a result. We could do that under O Neill. It appeared McLeishs only course of action (and often failed). We can't expect to just counter attack our way to mid-table comfort.
Again, I understand the work in progress thing. I understand it'll take time. But if you spend too many seasons fighting relegation, eventually you'll slip through the trap door. Ask Wigan.
One of my main hopes this season was that Lambert would stop making some of those truly baffling decisions he was prone to last year. They've been slipping back in though. The 4-2-4 business is utter madness.
But more so than baffling decisions it's his inability to identify key aspects of a match in progress, particularly when we're getting ruthlessly exploited in some way. Ben Arfa for example. He spent the whole game murdering our fullbacks (mostly Tony, with the occasional break to murder Lowton). If you want to manage at this level, for a club this size, you have to do something, anything to try and counter a situation like this. He didn't.
I recall us playing Spurs a few years back. Ash Young was absolutely destroying their fullback (Corluka?) and IIRC Redknapp made a change at half time and suddenly Young was a lot quieter.
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I think many of us (me included) were expecting a win over a club who appeared to be in dissaray. Not 4-0,5-1 etc but something like 2-0
and we didnt get it. Paul Lambert and his coaching staff show no signs that they are capable of organising a defence that can keep the ball out of our net.They have been at Villa Park quite long enough to improve things in this respect.
Other than that he is doing a good job with limited finance. But I think some of you overrate his abilities.I dont think he will prove to be another Sir Alex.
Lets hope for an improved performance and a draw at the very least from Norwich.
I think to some extent we did underestimate Newcastle. They've got some quality players there, and certainly in B.A a game changer. Despite all the summer furore surrounding Kinnear and Ashley, they've been fairly solid so far. A lot was made of the disappointing French contingent from Jan, but if they gel and finally get used to this league, there's real quality there. A lot was expected of Gouffran a few years back for example.
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I think 'giving Lambert till Christmas' is massively over the top. Overall I like what he's doing at the club and I think it's leading in the right direction. However he does need to address some issues, namely our appalling defensive record and our awful home form. I think he has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to defending, and I think he's too rigid in his tactics at home.
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I get Chico’s point and my reaction on Saturday was one of horribly frustrated annoyance.
I think the idea of “giving Lambert till Christmas” is a duff idea. If Lambert doesn’t work out, then short of Risso’s lunatic suggestions, where on Earth do we go to next?
It was a terrible performance from a lot of players, something completely out of character with the previous three games, but generally in keeping with the awful home form.
The more I think about it, the more I think having three weeks off didn’t help.
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We were shit on Saturday and I'm still feeling the dissapointment but I remind myself we are a young team and we will have stinkers like that. But there are long term worries that need to be addressed:
- Continuuing failure to get a clean sheet
- Poor home form, not just on lambert's watch but for every season since O'Dreary's time (excluding possibly his first season)
People could exuse the Chelsea and Liverpool results because of the opposition and the effort Villa put into those games, but I think we genuinely expected to turn Newcastle over. The overreaction is somewhat predictable.
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Sacking Lambert at xmas would do absolutely nothing for us. We couldnt get a better replacement, and the new man would come inherit a very young squad, of which, if Lambert has been in a position to get sacked, may not actually be good enough for this level. There'd be no money or time to do much in january either.
However at some point we have to move on from being relegation battlers, so come next summer, if we've finished just a couple of points above the drop zone again, it might not be enough for Lambo to keep the job.
Building for the future is all well and good, but there needs to be a noticeable improvement each season.
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Just a question really; were we really that bad against Newcastle? A friend who went said he couldn't believe the negativity from fans because in his opinion Villa were trying to play a more patient, possession based game, rather than a more gung-ho approach.
If that was the case, is that something we as fans need to adjust to? Just because we're not lumping it forward and we're willing to be patient doesn't make us shit, surely? In my opinio, we could do with that attacking midfielder to help turn possession into potential chances.
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We're a mid table team. We will have more disappointing performances, some more unexpected wins and pick up enough points from the promoted teams and those around us to stay up and probably finish with another 4-8 points or so than last year. Those points would have seen us finish between 11th and 8th had we got them last season and probably would do the same this season.
Coming out of the close season there is always a sense of unrealistic optimism about what might happen, and the Arsenal result meant that it lasted a bit longer, but unless we were going to finish in the top 6 (not going to happen) our season will be much like last years but with another couple of wins so we'd better get used to it.
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He should be backed for 4 or 5 years. It is early, and we can moan and we will, but long term you can see what he is doing. He needs to trust his new men though. Helenius, tonev and Sylla should be pushing for starts.
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I fell very negative because of the following nightmare equation:
Benteke keeps scoring + we keep losing = bye bye in January
As I say, it's a nightmare scenario, but its the perfect storm.
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He should be backed for 4 or 5 years. It is early, and we can moan and we will, but long term you can see what he is doing. He needs to trust his new men though. Helenius, tonev and Sylla should be pushing for starts.
hopefully on Saturday.
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Just a question really; were we really that bad against Newcastle? A friend who went said he couldn't believe the negativity from fans because in his opinion Villa were trying to play a more patient, possession based game, rather than a more gung-ho approach.
Perhaps but if that were the case why so many stray passes? It looked to me at times like the midfield simply couldn't read each other.
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It's difficult not to feel negative or in my case just pxxxxd off. The reality is though that to get to a safe position in this crapy league we have to win 13 times and draw twice. So in a 38 game season we are going to lose more often than we either win or draw. The way we play means most of those defeats are going to be at home.
You could probably say that we've already achieved our quota over the likely top 6 with the win at Arsenal so that is why Saturday was so disappointing. Newcastle was, for the me anyway, the first of the 26 fixtures that we should be confident of, at worst, not losing.
Oh well the the lifelong love/hate relationship goes on !
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We were annoyed after another tame home defeat, where we saw all of the problems that we've had for many years and under several managers, and we saw them back with a vengeance. Criticising the manager does NOT mean not backing him or wanting him sacked. Lambert has, in my view, made a large mistake with the expensive signing of Kozak, a totally vestigial signing in my view, but he has also done brilliantly with signing Benteke (twice) and Okore, with whose injury he has been spectacularly unlucky, not to mention the bargains that Westwood and Lowton look, though off form, and revitalising the careers of Delph and Gabby. He has made a few mistakes, though, and these should be acknowledged.
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Great word, vestigial.
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I think it is about keeping that perspective. If we struggle this season again so be it considering the finance he has used. He has had to re-build an entire squad in 18 months, which now done will hopefully mean that over the next 3-4 windows we add 3-4 players who are much more about being first team players, with real quality in key positions. When Benteke goes next summer we need to carefully re-invest that back into the side to become more creative and less fragile. But none of that is possible when you are having to buy an entire squad of players due to the last lot being not good enough, over the hill, or simply not fancied. As fans we are impatient, and can moan and rightly point out when he goes badly wrong - Kozak may well be a mistake but I feel long term he will be a success personally - but we have to back someone long term, and Lambert is as good as anyone to do so.
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We were annoyed after another tame home defeat, where we saw all of the problems that we've had for many years and under several managers, and we saw them back with a vengeance. Criticising the manager does NOT mean not backing him or wanting him sacked. Lambert has, in my view, made a large mistake with the expensive signing of Kozak, a totally vestigial signing in my view, but he has also done brilliantly with signing Benteke (twice) and Okore, with whose injury he has been spectacularly unlucky, not to mention the bargains that Westwood and Lowton look, though off form, and revitalising the careers of Delph and Gabby. He has made a few mistakes, though, and these should be acknowledged.
There is a spectrum between being upset after a defeat and just being outright pessimistic about the entire club, a lot of people seem to have gone a long way towards the latter. Of course no one is happy about defeat at home to Newcastle but it's only a few weeks since we beat Arsenal away, had Chelsea cheat us out of something at their place and deserved at least a point at home to an in form Liverpool. As far as I'm concerned that's the 'real' Villa 13/14 and Newcastle was the blip, for a lot of others the other 3 are being treated as the blip. I know you don't agree with the Kozak signingbut what would your thoughts be if it was Benteke out for the season not Okore?
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There is a spectrum between being upset after a defeat and just being outright pessimistic about the entire club, a lot of people seem to have gone a long way towards the latter. Of course no one is happy about defeat at home to Newcastle but it's only a few weeks since we beat Arsenal away, had Chelsea cheat us out of something at their place and deserved at least a point at home to an in form Liverpool. As far as I'm concerned that's the 'real' Villa 13/14 and Newcastle was the blip, for a lot of others the other 3 are being treated as the blip. I know you don't agree with the Kozak signingbut what would your thoughts be if it was Benteke out for the season not Okore?
The same people who would have gone downright pessimistic about the club after one match are the same who'd have thought we'll be top 8 with ease after the Arsenal match. Ozzjim is right - we just need to keep perspective.
As regards which is the 'real' Villa, they all were - the difference is, against Newcastle we had to force the issue more whereas in the other three games we could sit back and counter, which clearly suits us more. The other day we were very poor, but we still had a good spell in the second half before we went 4-2-4, where we looked like we could create chances against a massed defence. Not enough, however, and the lack of subtlety told in the end. It's a very familiar flaw for Villa teams to have recently.
Finally, on Kozak and Benteke. If Benteke had been injured for the rest of the season I'm not sure I'd like to throw Kozak in anyway - I'd rather play Gabby up front to be honest. Kozak would encourage the long balls like Benteke does, which is a poor part of our game, but the Beast is such a phenomenon that he makes a remarkably high percentage of long balls work out - whereas with Kozak, a normal human, it would just be lumping it up to a big man and it would work about as well as that tactic normally does, ie almost never.
My problem with the Kozak signing is not because it cost us cover in defence - on our budget, you can't legislate for an injury like Okore's - it's that it cost us something in midfield, in the first team, that we just don't have to begin with and haven't had for a very long time. We went for cover up front when we needed a starter in midfield, and that's hampered the team from the off in my view. But, like I say, even the best managers make mistakes, and that's fine. Kozak may even turn out to be a brilliant signing for us when Benteke leaves, I don't know - but it has definitely cost us this season, and we could have beaten Newcastle had we had it.
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The difference between this season and last season is that he has players; Tonev, Bacuna, Helenius, Sylla, who he can bring in to change things.
I think we should be seeing the squad system put to work, especially at home where we need to be more flexible, both tactically and personnel wise. I don’t want to see the sledgehammer approach to chasing a game again.
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We are not as good as the Arsenal result and not as bad as the performance v Newcastle. Anyone who chooses either extreme as our norm will be in for rough ride over the duration over the season.
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I'll back a manager for as long as i think he's doing a good job.
As i'm still 50/50 on Lambert, he has my backing for now until i feel things are getting worse. This is his team now, built by his hands with players that he wanted. So it's up to him to show that he knows what he's doing. A repeat of last season wont do, and neither will a season of scratching around the bottom third.
I want to see what tactical nous he has. Because we've been a disaster at home for pretty much his entire tenure thus far, and he needs to change something pronto. I assume that's why he brought a load of squad players to give him options. Personally i just wish he'd brought a few starters that were better than what we already have.
Lets see
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I think we need to address a couple of things, we need to stop conceding so many goals and we need to work out a way of playing at home. A lot of those issues can be addressed on the training ground with adequate coaching, but some of it will need to be addressed in the transfer market. Lambert needs to sort out the defence as a major priority though because it's not acceptable to continue like we are.
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Any negativity I feel is in direct proportion to the amount of times I see 'El Ahmadi' on the team sheet.
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Any negativity I feel is in direct proportion to the amount of times I see 'El Ahmadi' on the team sheet.
I'd like to dismiss this, but i'm afraid I agree.
The same goes for Clark, but I'd argue the El Ahmadi issue hurts us more as a team.
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Any negativity I feel is in direct proportion to the amount of times I see 'El Ahmadi' on the team sheet.
Totally agree mate. It's like Lambert has ignored what Sylla did at the end of last season.
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Agree with above, it's bad enough we're without Okore, but if we have to see Clark over Baker and KEA over Sylla for the next few months I'll be pretty depressed. Okore's injury also highlights the risk of entering the season with only 1 right back, if Lowton suffered the same injury I wouldn't fancy a season of Bacuna or Herd at right back.
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A narrow formation and playing without wingers is thoroughly depressing.
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Sylla was injured for the Arsenal game and in fairness KEA came in and did ok and was fairly decent against a very attack minded Chelsea midfield as well. He was dropped for the Liverpool match when Lambert gave Bacuna a run but he probably felt KEA deserved another crack against Newcastle. I don't see any harm in that too be honest.
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Be interesting to see what changes he does at the weekend, he's brought in these players during the summer to give himself more options,and as a couple of the team are under performing i hope he brings in some new faces.
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Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
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People are entitled to boo when you'be been by and large absolute bollocks for 3 years straight. Take out the handfull of matches each season where we've turned in a 90 minute performance and what you're left with is perennial relegation strugglers. So how is it being reactionary or fickle to vent against yet again another shit performance, some people need their heads checking out how apathethetic do we need to be as to not rock the boat and be fickle.
That was one of the worst things that wanker O'Leary did down the Villa, introduce the perception that we are fickle. There aren't many if any supporters up and down the country that would accept 6 home wins in 36.
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Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
What a load of shite.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
What a load of shite.
Lambert must be in the record books as the youngest ever player to play professional football if he was playing in the 70's. Lol.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
The greatest captain this club has ever had once said to me that the trouble with modern football is that it's too easy for supporters to have their say. This was before blogs and social media so I don't think he was right then, but he's absolutely correct now.
-
Sylla was injured for the Arsenal game and in fairness KEA came in and did ok and was fairly decent against a very attack minded Chelsea midfield as well. He was dropped for the Liverpool match when Lambert gave Bacuna a run but he probably felt KEA deserved another crack against Newcastle. I don't see any harm in that too be honest.
Very true, kea got the chance due to sylla a injury and he played well so didnt deserve to be left out , now though there is no question that his last performance was poor and sylla must replace him .
There have been several underperformers in recent games and Lowton, Westwood and Weimann should all be looking over their shoulders on current form.
I was surprised when lambert chose bacuna in midfield rather than sylla , bacuna may be better at right back than as a midfielder.
Sylla was an integral part of our revival and must return to the team now he is fit.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
The greatest captain this club has ever had once said to me that the trouble with modern football is that it's too easy for supporters to have their say. This was before blogs and social media so I don't think he was right then, but he's absolutely correct now.
I take it you are referring to Dennis Mortimer whose comments surprise me - the fans contribute a lot towards the club and are entitled to have their say .
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
The greatest captain this club has ever had once said to me that the trouble with modern football is that it's too easy for supporters to have their say. This was before blogs and social media so I don't think he was right then, but he's absolutely correct now.
I take it you are referring to Dennis Mortimer whose comments surprise me - the fans contribute a lot towards the club and are entitled to have their say .
Yes, but 'having your say' is one thing, but proclaiming that your (not you in particular mate) narrow vision is 'fact' is actually generally happens.
For example, I think he should be playing Sylla instead of El Ahmadi. But I don't see them train all day, and I haven't studied the game and modern techniques as much as Lambert and his coaches, and I'll bet if they discussed it with me it would take them all of 5 minutes to convince me they're right on based on the information they have.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
Depends what the advice was.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
The idea that just because we have this platform known as the interweb from which we can spout all sorts of shite, somehow makes us authorities on anything we dip our beak into and our words should be listened to as if we were sages of our age is laughable. Just look at all the wannabe journos on Twitter.
That bloke with the blog is entitled to his opinion, but he is talking utter, utter shite.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
Depends what the advice was.
"Don't drive down the Villa, you'll only be disappointed"
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
Depends what the advice was.
"Don't drive down the Villa, you'll only be disappointed"
And like a prat, I'd ignore that.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
Depends what the advice was.
"Don't drive down the Villa, you'll only be disappointed"
And like a prat, I'd ignore that.
:)
-
The idea that just because we have this platform known as the interweb from which we can spout all sorts of shite, somehow makes us authorities on anything we dip our beak into and our words should be listened to as if we were sages of our age is laughable. Just look at all the wannabe journos on Twitter.
That bloke with the blog is entitled to his opinion, but he is talking utter, utter shite.
Aye. One thing I notice with blogs that you don't have/didn't get with fanzines is that the writers style themselves as journalists and claim to be better and know more than those who've been doing it full-time for a living for decades even though only a fraction of them have ever written for anyone else except themselves on their specialist subject.
-
I like the fact that he was trying to compare McLeish with Lambert. That said it all really.
-
The idea that just because we have this platform known as the interweb from which we can spout all sorts of shite, somehow makes us authorities on anything we dip our beak into and our words should be listened to as if we were sages of our age is laughable. Just look at all the wannabe journos on Twitter.
That bloke with the blog is entitled to his opinion, but he is talking utter, utter shite.
Aye. One thing I notice with blogs that you don't have/didn't get with fanzines is that the writers style themselves as journalists and claim to be better and know more than those who've been doing it full-time for a living for decades even though only a fraction of them have ever written for anyone else except themselves on their specialist subject.
There are good and bad i suppose , Oliver holt has been a journalist for decades and i daresay a virgin blogger may make more sense than him :)
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
To be fair, Jose Mourinho and Arrigo Sacchi never played the game professionally, to name but two (and there are surprisingly loads). And plenty of ex-players, indeed great players, talk nothing but shite about the game whenever given the chance. Maradona was hardly a great manager, and Pele talks exclusively nonsense, and this isn't even to mention Shearer.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
The idea that just because we have this platform known as the interweb from which we can spout all sorts of shite, somehow makes us authorities on anything we dip our beak into and our words should be listened to as if we were sages of our age is laughable. Just look at all the wannabe journos on Twitter.
That bloke with the blog is entitled to his opinion, but he is talking utter, utter shite.
To be fair to the bloke with the blog - he didn't say this, it was one of the responses to his blog.
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
To be fair, Jose Mourinho and Arrigo Sacchi never played the game professionally, to name but two (and there are surprisingly loads). And plenty of ex-players, indeed great players, talk nothing but shite about the game whenever given the chance. Maradona was hardly a great manager, and Pele talks exclusively nonsense, and this isn't even to mention Shearer.
To be fair, I never mentioned anything about playing the game professionally, and that isn't the point I'm making.
You're entirely correct about the likes of Saachi and Mourinho. But those guys dedicated themselves professionally to the business of understanding the sport, not talking about it around the water cooler on a Monday.
-
To be fair, I never mentioned anything about playing the game professionally, and that isn't the point I'm making.
You're entirely correct about the likes of Saachi and Mourinho. But those guys dedicated themselves professionally to the business of understanding the sport, not talking about it around the water cooler on a Monday.
I see, so you mean that his opinions probably have very little validity because he's no more than a slightly over-enthusiastic amateur? That seems about right.
-
Anyone can have a valid and good opinion on football, watch as many games of football as most fans have by the time they are 30 plus and they know a good player from a bad one. The more intelligent ones can have some quite insightful opinions on the game.
Then there are those who have played top level, and don't have a clue. Cascarino, Cundy, Shearer, Lawro etc... who I would not take the opinion of in a million years.
-
footballs the national game, everyone has viewpoint
the people who devote there lives to it know the ins and outs of the game they know how the system works, when players go into management they know where to go what to do how to get around a training field etc
it doesn't mean they know any more than the average fan about the game though, they are just in the position to actually make a difference
there have been times over the years when everybody in the ground can see what needs to be done, which player needs to be taken off, which player needs to be put on, except the manager, who is as blind as a bat, and has not a clue what to do
I see managers of today like politicians, they have made there career in either politics or football, they would be pretty useless at doing anything else, therefore they think they know more than the rest of us,
some do some dont
-
Good post john e.
-
I suggest that people should down their pens and leave the lengthy forensic examination of players, tactics and Manager till after about a third of the season has passed and not after 4/5/6 games. A lot will change...
-
Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
The greatest captain this club has ever had once said to me that the trouble with modern football is that it's too easy for supporters to have their say. This was before blogs and social media so I don't think he was right then, but he's absolutely correct now.
I take it you are referring to Dennis Mortimer whose comments surprise me - the fans contribute a lot towards the club and are entitled to have their say .
I think it is also too easy for footballers to have their say.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
Ok Saturday was awful, but the other games this season we gave some top sides a really tough game - lets not assume we are back to the bad days of last winter just on the back of 1 poor display.
Win on Saturday and things will be looking much rosier.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
Ok Saturday was awful, but the other games this season we gave some top sides a really tough game - lets not assume we are back to the bad days of last winter just on the back of 1 poor display.
Win on Saturday and things will be looking much rosier.
I'm not calling for Lambert to be sacked I'm just saying that people shouldn't be surprised if other fans want him out. He's hardly been a rip roaring success since he arrived.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
Ok Saturday was awful, but the other games this season we gave some top sides a really tough game - lets not assume we are back to the bad days of last winter just on the back of 1 poor display.
Win on Saturday and things will be looking much rosier.
I'm not calling for Lambert to be sacked I'm just saying that people shouldn't be surprised if other fans want him out. He's hardly been a rip roaring success since he arrived.
We can be surprised and we can disagree.
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
Ok Saturday was awful, but the other games this season we gave some top sides a really tough game - lets not assume we are back to the bad days of last winter just on the back of 1 poor display.
Win on Saturday and things will be looking much rosier.
I'm not calling for Lambert to be sacked I'm just saying that people shouldn't be surprised if other fans want him out. He's hardly been a rip roaring success since he arrived.
No he hasn't but outperform form from February onwards has not been bad and I'm not prepared to let one bad game depress me too much- if we are struggling in the bottom 6 come November then fair enough for criticism , but lets see how the next few weeks pan out.
-
Eastie - you can reflect on things a few days after the game but how many people were showing signs of patiently waiting for something to turn up as they left the ground on Saturday?
-
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
OK let's take direction from a bell-end and get rid of Lambert.
Managers have been sacked for a lot less than some of the crap Lambert's served up at Villa so far.
Ok Saturday was awful, but the other games this season we gave some top sides a really tough game - lets not assume we are back to the bad days of last winter just on the back of 1 poor display.
Win on Saturday and things will be looking much rosier.
I'm not calling for Lambert to be sacked I'm just saying that people shouldn't be surprised if other fans want him out. He's hardly been a rip roaring success since he arrived.
We can be surprised and we can disagree.
Of course.
-
As a Villa fan the one thing you can be sure of is that if you attempt to make a balanced, objective and constructive criticsm of team peformance you will be branded a second rate fan and a fickle turncoat.
Good results which defy the form book always occur at the start of every season. Now that our opponents are up to speed and match fit, results from now on will be much more representative of where we actually stand as a team. The Newcastle game was a big test and we failed it. The failings must be addressed and to pretend that they do not exist will only make them worse.
My own opinion is that the three sixth place finishes achieved by MON's teams was a very poor return on the boost the club should have got from the departure of Doug Ellis and the new broom and new money of a new owner. Take those three sixth places out of the picture and we have been in steady decline for decades. Label the truth as negativity at your peril.
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As a Villa fan the one thing you can be sure of is that if you attempt to make a balanced, objective and constructive criticsm of team peformance you will be branded a second rate fan and a fickle turncoat.
Good results which defy the form book always occur at the start of every season. Now that our opponents are up to speed and match fit, results from now on will be much more representative of where we actually stand as a team. The Newcastle game was a big test and we failed it. The failings must be addressed and to pretend that they do not exist will only make them worse.
My own opinion is that the three sixth place finishes achieved by MON's teams was a very poor return on the boost the club should have got from the departure of Doug Ellis and the new broom and new money of a new owner. Take those three sixth places out of the picture and we have been in steady decline for decades. Label the truth as negativity at your peril.
I don't know about us being in decline for "decades" but I think we've certainly been in decline since the year 2000. The O'Neill years seem to be a blip somewhat.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, it would appear so.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
Does anyone with a brain take notice of the table after 4 games? There have been sides get relegated who were in the top 4 at this stage. Everton under Moyes regularly started poorly yet generally pulled it round in the second half of the season.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
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I prefer to wait until about 10 games in before I make any serious judgements.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, it would appear so.
I will now reform myself in-line with this and develop a selective critical view in future. Clearly that will make me happy.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
Does anyone with a brain take notice of the table after 4 games? There have been sides get relegated who were in the top 4 at this stage. Everton under Moyes regularly started poorly yet generally pulled it round in the second half of the season.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
I'm sure you'd notice it if we were at the top rather than the bottom. And for the record I'm not calling for Lambert's head (yet), but we can't just gloss over the fact that the Newcastle game isn't just a one off. Last season was littered with performances like it, so don't be surprised when people are a tad worried by it.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
I would say two very good perfomances, one reasonable and a poor one.
It's much too early for the wailing, gnashing of teeth and predictions of struggles ahead just because Newcastle scored one more goal than us
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
Does anyone with a brain take notice of the table after 4 games? There have been sides get relegated who were in the top 4 at this stage. Everton under Moyes regularly started poorly yet generally pulled it round in the second half of the season.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
I'm sure you'd notice it if we were at the top rather than the bottom. And for the record I'm not calling for Lambert's head (yet), but we can't just gloss over the fact that the Newcastle game isn't just a one off. Last season was littered with performances like it, so don't be surprised when people are a tad worried by it.
What gives you the impression that I'm in the least bit surprised?
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I will ignore the league table for another few weeks. I also wont pay attention to last seasons as it has no bearing on how well we may or may not do.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
Does anyone with a brain take notice of the table after 4 games? There have been sides get relegated who were in the top 4 at this stage. Everton under Moyes regularly started poorly yet generally pulled it round in the second half of the season.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
I'm sure you'd notice it if we were at the top rather than the bottom. And for the record I'm not calling for Lambert's head (yet), but we can't just gloss over the fact that the Newcastle game isn't just a one off. Last season was littered with performances like it, so don't be surprised when people are a tad worried by it.
What gives you the impression that I'm in the least bit surprised?
I didn't say you were.
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Just so we're clear, only the matches where we play poorly count. Ignore the ones where we swat a top four side and we cheated out of at least a point at the Champions elect.
Yes, and to be even more clear, let's ignore the league table as well, and the one last season too. Just for a balanced argument I mean.
Does anyone with a brain take notice of the table after 4 games? There have been sides get relegated who were in the top 4 at this stage. Everton under Moyes regularly started poorly yet generally pulled it round in the second half of the season.
We've had one very good performance, two reasonable performances and one well below par. I've no idea of how we'll get on this season and am distrustful of anyone, not intimately connected with the club, who claims that they do.
I'm sure you'd notice it if we were at the top rather than the bottom. And for the record I'm not calling for Lambert's head (yet), but we can't just gloss over the fact that the Newcastle game isn't just a one off. Last season was littered with performances like it, so don't be surprised when people are a tad worried by it.
What gives you the impression that I'm in the least bit surprised?
I didn't say you were.
In a post that directly responds to mine and uses the phrase "don't be surprised" it's not a wild conclusion to reach.
Anyway, that's getting away from the substantive point that it's far too soon to pass any meaningful judgement.
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Are others not worried that we seem to be incapable of grinding out draws? That's what worries me. We play well and take moral victories against Chelsea and Liverpool but no points. It was similar last year. The only draws we tended to get were ones where we had surrendered a winning position.
Good performances or not we still got no points from Chelsea and Liverpool and then played crap against Newcastle.
If it continues like that all season, even when we play well, we can't be sure we won't end up losing. Where's our resilience?
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Let's put things into perspective please.
6 wins in 34 home games
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We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.
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Best bit of negativity I've seen today:
http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/is-it-time-to-protest-yet/?
[see responses to the blog]
"Of course Lambert sees what everyone else sees but he hasn’t the wit or talent to do anything about it. Norwich were statistically the team that hit the most long balls when Lambert was manager there, he’s now playing the same way at VP, he can’t recognise that things have moved on from when he played in the 70′s and 80′s just like McKnob couldn’t, he’s not a modern manager who can adapt his tactics. The comparisons with ginger are easy, both have limited ( one ) way of playing, neither can take criticism, both have very little talent and hopefully, very soon, both will be able to say that their EX managers of Aston Villa."
That's the beauty about football, it's all about opinions.
And the opinion of some bell-end that's never kicked a ball in his life is utterly fucking irrelevant.
He may well be a "bell-end" but his comments shouldn't just be ignored because he hasn't kicked a ball in his life before.
Yes, they should.
Would you take advice on how to drive a car from someone without a license?
By that logic, i'd only listen to bands that professional musicians have recommended to me
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Everything is not great and our home form is a great concern as is okore being injured - but a week ago there was a really good positive feeling around - surely one defeat as poor as it was shouldnt cause so many alarm bells to ring ?
Win at Norwich and things will be much more positive.
Saturday was unacceptable as a display but thats our 1st poor game this season.
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Perhaps we ought to play all out home games at Northampton. We could share with Coventry!
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I just sometimes feel we have been left behind somewhat. I cannot believe the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Everton and Spurs have played in the 'modern' Champion's League and we haven't. I think not qualifying for it at east once in the past ten or fifteen years has held us back. Money wise, player wise.
A club of our size needs to be playing in Europe more regularly. The last time you could say we ripped up any trees on such a stage was 1998 in the Uefa Cup. Like, seriously, we have been underachieving for absolutely ages. We probably were a bit unlucky that the few good seasons we had since then (the sixths under DOL and MON), weren't enough for automatic European qualification.
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Totally agree.
We have no divine right to it, but a club our size should be looking to qualify (and then compete) in Europe on a regular basis.
A lot is made of the UEFA Cup/ Europa League not being what it was, but there are still top draw sides in it who seem to be able to take the thing seriously. Ajax at home and Hamburg away were some of the best nights in the clubs recent history, and I fail to see how games such as those wouldn't help our development.
The previous argument (that there were too many games, and it might be a distraction for sides with Chamions League aspirations) doesn't really apply to us anymore. And won't for the foreseeable. Unless we are now one of those clubs for whom the Premier League alone is enough, and survival means everything.
Cut the budget to the extent that we have since 2010, and that's the knock on effect. Low aspirations and low morale across the support base and across the club in general.
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I was a bit surprised at how little we spent again this summer I have to admit. I though we would, with the TV deal, spend a little more on 2-3 players that could make the difference, but hopefully they are still targets.
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I was a bit surprised at how little we spent again this summer I have to admit. I though we would, with the TV deal, spend a little more on 2-3 players that could make the difference, but hopefully they are still targets.
I was surprised how little was spent by most clubs. The bankrolled and the desperate threw money around but the rest of us weren't much bigger spenders than usual.
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Saw your interview before the Newcastle game, i would have liked for him to have interviewed you after the game as well.
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You would think that we stand a decent chance of coming close to turning a profit this financial year.
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Everything is not great and our home form is a great concern as is okore being injured - but a week ago there was a really good positive feeling around - surely one defeat as poor as it was shouldnt cause so many alarm bells to ring ?
Win at Norwich and things will be much more positive.
Saturday was unacceptable as a display but thats our 1st poor game this season.
To add further context to this, in 2013 our record is played 22, won 7, drawn 5 and lost 10, for 26 points and a goal difference of +1. Extended to 38 games that 45 points which would've seen us in 11th last year. So whilst Newcastle was bad, the idea that Lambert is under pressure to keep his job or that we're going to be in a relegation battle all season again isn't based on the facts of our extended form this year or on our performances this season.
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Everything is not great and our home form is a great concern as is okore being injured - but a week ago there was a really good positive feeling around - surely one defeat as poor as it was shouldnt cause so many alarm bells to ring ?
Win at Norwich and things will be much more positive.
Saturday was unacceptable as a display but thats our 1st poor game this season.
To add further context to this, in 2013 our record is played 22, won 7, drawn 5 and lost 10, for 26 points and a goal difference of +1. Extended to 38 games that 45 points which would've seen us in 11th last year. So whilst Newcastle was bad, the idea that Lambert is under pressure to keep his job or that we're going to be in a relegation battle all season again isn't based on the facts of our extended form this year or on our performances this season.
The worry though Paul, or one of them at least, is that we might have had our card marked. I actually don't think our away form will be as effective as it was in the tail end of last season, and even so, we only really beat the sides in and around us. Our total lack of a plan B could be a major problem, because if we continue not winning at home, it puts enormous pressure on us to win away. The Arsenal game will wake a lot of the bigger teams up to our threat on the counter, they'll be a lot more careful playing us on their own patch, and even so I wouldn't expect us to win more than 2 away games against top 6 sides for the rest of the season.
Again, a major issue is that everything appears to be on Benteke right now. We're almost expecting him to score 2-3 a game in order to win because we can't keep clean sheets. We need other players to chip in with goals. Thus far, though Gabby's made several of our goals, he's not looked like scoring, and nor has Wiemann really. Glaring misses by both haven't helped. Delph seems like he could potentially provide goals from midfield, but he needs more freedom, because hes basically carrying the can for the entire midfield at the moment.
If we're gonna rely purely on away form it might not be enough. Home form should be a primary focus. It's got to improve. Even if that means stepping it up from piss poor to average, that should see us finish mid-table.
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Everything is not great and our home form is a great concern as is okore being injured - but a week ago there was a really good positive feeling around - surely one defeat as poor as it was shouldnt cause so many alarm bells to ring ?
Win at Norwich and things will be much more positive.
Saturday was unacceptable as a display but thats our 1st poor game this season.
To add further context to this, in 2013 our record is played 22, won 7, drawn 5 and lost 10, for 26 points and a goal difference of +1. Extended to 38 games that 45 points which would've seen us in 11th last year. So whilst Newcastle was bad, the idea that Lambert is under pressure to keep his job or that we're going to be in a relegation battle all season again isn't based on the facts of our extended form this year or on our performances this season.
If we look at averages then in the last 10 years our league finishing position is 10th with 49 points.
However our last three seasons the average is 13th with only 42 points
And the last two seasons its 15th with 39 points
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I actually don't think our away form will be as effective as it was in the tail end of last season
Based on what? Our 2 away games this season have been Arsenal and Chelsea, where we won one and lost the other to an offside goal to a player who should've been red carded a minute before and had a clear penalty not given in the last few minutes. There is nothing in that to suggest we won't be as good away from home.
Again, a major issue is that everything appears to be on Benteke right now. We're almost expecting him to score 2-3 a game in order to win because we can't keep clean sheets. We need other players to chip in with goals. Thus far, though Gabby's made several of our goals, he's not looked like scoring, and nor has Wiemann really. Glaring misses by both haven't helped. Delph seems like he could potentially provide goals from midfield, but he needs more freedom, because hes basically carrying the can for the entire midfield at the moment.
We are relying on Benteke, I agree, but given that we are where a lot of people would've predicted after our incredibly difficult start that's not really a massive negative. We won't go all season with no one but Benteke looking a threat, so we can assume that we'll get better once Weimann and Gabby start taking their chances, I also think we will see more goals from the rest of the team as the season progresses, Delph has the ability, Vlaar and Clark will get a few and Lowton and Luna have shown they have a bit of class as well, I do worry we don't have goals in the midfield as Westwood and KEA don't seem likely, and the popular choice to come in is Sylla who also doesn't seem to have many goals in him. As the season progresses I'd suspect that 1 or 2 of Bacuna, Tonev and Gardner (even Grealish and Carruthers when they come back) will become a viable option to grab a few goals in there, even if that is coming off the bench in the last half an hour.
Everyone knows our home form needs to improve, that much is clear, but our home form in 2013 has improved from 2012 (5 wins in 11 home games in 2013, 3 in 20 in 2012) so to be panicking about our abysmal home form right now is far too soon, Liverpool we played well and deserved something, Newcastle was clearly a poor performance. The issue is people have watch that poor performance and allowed it to become the expectation for every home game from here on in. We won't be that poor every match at home.
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Everything is not great and our home form is a great concern as is okore being injured - but a week ago there was a really good positive feeling around - surely one defeat as poor as it was shouldnt cause so many alarm bells to ring ?
Win at Norwich and things will be much more positive.
Saturday was unacceptable as a display but thats our 1st poor game this season.
To add further context to this, in 2013 our record is played 22, won 7, drawn 5 and lost 10, for 26 points and a goal difference of +1. Extended to 38 games that 45 points which would've seen us in 11th last year. So whilst Newcastle was bad, the idea that Lambert is under pressure to keep his job or that we're going to be in a relegation battle all season again isn't based on the facts of our extended form this year or on our performances this season.
If we look at averages then in the last 10 years our league finishing position is 10th with 49 points.
However our last three seasons the average is 13th with only 42 points
And the last two seasons its 15th with 39 points
Which proves that our form in 2013 is better than it had been for a few years, thanks for the backup!.
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It's a good point on Gardner actually, I'd like to see him being introduced because I think he'd add a goal threat to our midfield.
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I don't think our away form will be quite as effective based on the fact we don't appear to have another way of playing. I base this on previous managers who got worked out, some more quicker than others. O Leary had us playing high tempo football intitially. He struggled initially, but for the whole of 2004 we were very good, finishing 6th, and starting the next season quite well. From then on, because he had no other way of playing, because teams had sussed us, we weren't as good.
Likewise Brian Little had two great seasons, but it all went down hill on his third. People had worked out how to counter our system.
I think teams are going to be a lot more wary of our pace on the counter this season. And what have we learned in tough times since Lambert took over? That when it comes to changing things in a game, he more often than not, makes a bit of a howler. That the 4-2-4 still crops up is evidence of that.
I hope I'm wrong, but perennially when we've only had 1-2 ways of playing, even in more successful periods, it doesn't last when some degree of flexibility isn't apparent.
I think one of the major things we've lacked in the last couple of years is that ability to just really grind out a result. I'm not sure Lambert's good at winning ugly. A lot of our wins last season were done with some element of style, or through sheer attacking will, but when the attack isn't quite doing it, we don't have the resilience to hold out and scrape a goal. Winning games 3-2 is one thing, but we need that ability to nick 1-0's in games too. That's if we want to finish comfortably in the mid level of the table. Certainly the ability to nick a win would come in mightily useful if Benteke got injured.
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I don't think our away form will be quite as effective based on the fact we don't appear to have another way of playing. I base this on previous managers who got worked out, some more quicker than others. O Leary had us playing high tempo football intitially. He struggled initially, but for the whole of 2004 we were very good, finishing 6th, and starting the next season quite well. From then on, because he had no other way of playing, because teams had sussed us, we weren't as good.
Likewise Brian Little had two great seasons, but it all went down hill on his third. People had worked out how to counter our system.
I think teams are going to be a lot more wary of our pace on the counter this season. And what have we learned in tough times since Lambert took over? That when it comes to changing things in a game, he more often than not, makes a bit of a howler. That the 4-2-4 still crops up is evidence of that.
I hope I'm wrong, but perennially when we've only had 1-2 ways of playing, even in more successful periods, it doesn't last when some degree of flexibility isn't apparent.
I think one of the major things we've lacked in the last couple of years is that ability to just really grind out a result. I'm not sure Lambert's good at winning ugly. A lot of our wins last season were done with some element of style, or through sheer attacking will, but when the attack isn't quite doing it, we don't have the resilience to hold out and scrape a goal. Winning games 3-2 is one thing, but we need that ability to nick 1-0's in games too. That's if we want to finish comfortably in the mid level of the table. Certainly the ability to nick a win would come in mightily useful if Benteke got injured.
I sum the whole thing up as you saying "I'm guessing" as there is no evidence to back it up that teams have sussed us out.
As for resilience coming from a goal down to win 3-1 at the emirates doesn't count then? How about coming from behind at Chelsea (only to have the ref gift them the 3 points). I'm firmly of the opinion that we've shown more than enough resilience recently. What you're actually referring to is the lack of clean sheets (given you specifically state the need to win 1-0), which is something that we need to rectify but resilience is normally used to describe a teams ability to stick at it and get a result from being outplayed, that's doesn't mean not conceding.
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We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.
I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game . That is what worries me . 6 home wins in 36 is awful . I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .
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I was a bit surprised at how little we spent again this summer I have to admit. I though we would, with the TV deal, spend a little more on 2-3 players that could make the difference, but hopefully they are still targets.
I was expecting 4 players to come in and start . I can only see one player that could at the moment and he is out for the season.
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We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.
I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game . That is what worries me . 6 home wins in 36 is awful . I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .
We didn't deserve to win but there were positives, in my view. Firstly, there was a good response at the start of the second half and we deservedly scored; secondly, we made chances despite being below par, this is a good trait to have.
The negatives of our overall lethargy and defensive frailties clearly outweighed them but things are rarely all good or all bad.
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If Gabby scores, as he should, we don't make the sub and change shape and we go on to win the game. Small margins exist even in the poorest of performances.
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I still dont think he had a clue on Saturday Chris . The response did not last long to be fair and I would expect some at home against an average Newcastle. It did not help when a player can not take a throw in , which gives possession back to newcastle who more or less score after it.
In fact I remember the response being up to that minute when we started to have more attack . I thought for two minutes , we can win this until they scored and knew we would never score after that.
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I don't think our away form will be quite as effective based on the fact we don't appear to have another way of playing. I base this on previous managers who got worked out, some more quicker than others. O Leary had us playing high tempo football intitially. He struggled initially, but for the whole of 2004 we were very good, finishing 6th, and starting the next season quite well. From then on, because he had no other way of playing, because teams had sussed us, we weren't as good.
Likewise Brian Little had two great seasons, but it all went down hill on his third. People had worked out how to counter our system.
I think teams are going to be a lot more wary of our pace on the counter this season. And what have we learned in tough times since Lambert took over? That when it comes to changing things in a game, he more often than not, makes a bit of a howler. That the 4-2-4 still crops up is evidence of that.
I hope I'm wrong, but perennially when we've only had 1-2 ways of playing, even in more successful periods, it doesn't last when some degree of flexibility isn't apparent.
I think one of the major things we've lacked in the last couple of years is that ability to just really grind out a result. I'm not sure Lambert's good at winning ugly. A lot of our wins last season were done with some element of style, or through sheer attacking will, but when the attack isn't quite doing it, we don't have the resilience to hold out and scrape a goal. Winning games 3-2 is one thing, but we need that ability to nick 1-0's in games too. That's if we want to finish comfortably in the mid level of the table. Certainly the ability to nick a win would come in mightily useful if Benteke got injured.
I sum the whole thing up as you saying "I'm guessing" as there is no evidence to back it up that teams have sussed us out.
As for resilience coming from a goal down to win 3-1 at the emirates doesn't count then? How about coming from behind at Chelsea (only to have the ref gift them the 3 points). I'm firmly of the opinion that we've shown more than enough resilience recently. What you're actually referring to is the lack of clean sheets (given you specifically state the need to win 1-0), which is something that we need to rectify but resilience is normally used to describe a teams ability to stick at it and get a result from being outplayed, that's doesn't mean not conceding.
Well yes. Not so much guessing, more a gut feeling that the longer we don't think of 1-2 different game plans, the more likely that teams will begin nullifying us as the season progresses. I mean last season we were woeful until january. Benteke had looked pretty good, without looking exceptional. After that point we suddenly found a system and surprised a lot of teams. I mean we tore some teams apart. It almost came out the blue how effective our 3 pronged attack was. This time round it's harder to take people by surprise.
We have certainly shown resilience, because we've gone behind in every game we've played, but what we need is also that ability to just really grind out an ugly result. If we don't start keeping a few clean sheets we're gonna struggle, because I'm not sure I'd fancy us to put 2-3 goals past every team we play below the top 6.
But by the same token I might be guessing our away form might not be as good as it was jan-may, people who say it will are also guessing, but it's all one big guessing game really.
I'm not being funny but sometimes when I think of some of our past managers, and the present one, I get a vision of General Melchet relaying his one and only plan to Blackadder and Darling.
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My own opinion is that the three sixth place finishes achieved by MON's teams was a very poor return on the boost the club should have got from the departure of Doug Ellis and the new broom and new money of a new owner. Take those three sixth places out of the picture and we have been in steady decline for decades. Label the truth as negativity at your peril.
Can't agree that we've been in decline for decades at all. I think we've missed the boat at important times, through bad luck or mismanagement at the top. This is why we are find ourselves where we are; a big club with a lot of tradition, a big stadium, lots of support, but a team that just does not and cannot meet the expectations that come with these things.
Just to add to my missing the boat point; we find ourselves where we are just as the leading clubs have managed to pull up the ladder behind them with the implementation of the FFP ruling.
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I'm not being funny but sometimes when I think of some of our past managers, and the present one, I get a vision of General Melchet relaying his one and only plan to Blackadder and Darling.
Given that our form since we started with the 3man attack is pretty good the plan doesn't need to be changed yet. There is also a big difference in changing tactics ahead of a game and changing them within a match. Lambert has struggled with the latter but, over his time, with the former he's tried a few things and found one that is generally effective so I'm not sure he can be considered to have 1 tactic. He can be accused of not making effective use of his bench though, which is the same criticism I levelled at him around Christmas last year (and through to both cup exits), that's a perfectly valid criticism as he's got it wrong more than right when he's tried to change a game with his bench.
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not much needs to change away from home in my opinion. We are so much more confident playing on the counter that we'll be a real handful for almost any team. I kind of expect the same eleven to start on Saturday, though a change here or there might liven things up though I would caution against affecting the chemistry. At home, a completely different story and we need to completely rethink our approach. It isn't working, whatever "it" is and "it" needs to change quickly.
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I simply think if you spend £500+ (including other costs) season on season, and see the same shit at home, you are going to be pretty narked. I absolutely love going to away games, but home games? They have almost become a chore. I'm lucky enough to get to some away games but most aren't, so to be honest I understand the negativity.
It is complete guess work as to what we're going to do this year, but when you see such poor tactical ability from our manager to change a game then it's easy and understandable to be negative. There are going to be many more times this season where we need to change things about to get a result, and you know what? I'm pretty negative because I don't see that Lambert is capable of that. People say that last season doesn't really count, but it simply does, from last season I can judge how lambert reacts to being in the shit = 4-2-4. What happened in the shit on Saturday? Strikes fear into my soul.
I know some don't agree but that first half against Liverpool was painful, and then the 2nd we dominated but didn't really threaten. I have to expect that at home we are going to struggle to break teams down.
I will make my mind up after another few home games, but I haven't got any hopes unfortunately.
I don't ever boo mind.
All opinions welcome ... You bunch of labia soufflés 😃
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It's early, 4 games. Over 100 points still to play for, I still reckon we'll be 9th or 10th which is acceptable in my mind.
That said already it's certain in my mind we will underachieve at home again, why oh why can't Lambert get an AM from somewhere rather than signing another out and out forward, I don't get it especially when one of the best strikers in the league actually plays for us.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
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We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.
I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game . That is what worries me . 6 home wins in 36 is awful . I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .
Whist that's true, similar comparisons were being made with our league form for the calendar year 2012 (something llke 5/6 wins total). In fairness, PL came through that and we had a second half of the campaign unrecognisable to the first.
The hope is the penny will drop in a smilar fashion as far as our home form is concerned, that we find some balance to the side that gets the best out of what we have.
VP is not a fortress, and hasn't been for a while. But if we are cute enough, we should be able to use that to our advantage. Teams no longer come to VP to park the bus. Fair to middling sides now come to VP and expect to win, and set themselves up to have a go.
So -if used at the right times- the counter attack can still be a potent weapon. What is crucial for it to succeed is a solid defence, because -when you are a goal or two adrift as we often are- it becomes increasingly harder to chase down. That's the biggest concern for me: the existing defensive personnel from last season don't look any more secure or settled, and we don't have enough new recruits for what was an obvious weakspot in the side.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I bet you a full pound in cash we have the bloke in midfield by January. A full pound. And he will come from a German team, oh yes. Winky thing.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I bet you a full pound in cash we have the bloke in midfield by January. A full pound.
We might do so, but January is five months into the season, and the end of it, when most business is done, is more like six months.
I totally understand you can't always get the player you want, when you want him, and can see that maybe part of his thinking might be that Tonev could play that role, but it was really the suggestion that it was the cost that put him off that I was getting at.
Compared to the sums of money we've spent on players the last two or three years, Kozak is relatively expensive. I don't see how it can be money well spent if we were so desperate for an attacking midfielder at the time.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I bet you a full pound in cash we have the bloke in midfield by January. A full pound.
We might do so, but January is five months into the season, and the end of it, when most business is done, is more like six months.
I totally understand you can't always get the player you want, when you want him, and can see that maybe part of his thinking might be that Tonev could play that role, but it was really the suggestion that it was the cost that put him off that I was getting at.
Compared to the sums of money we've spent on players the last two or three years, Kozak is relatively expensive. I don't see how it can be money well spent if we were so desperate for an attacking midfielder at the time.
Mate, things will click into place, starting with this weekend.
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I have no issue with Kozak because I'm firmly of the belief he is Benteke's replacement. It will give him a full season in our set up to get used to how we play. He's a player Lambert wanted and he took advantage of his availability before someone else did. And off course he also provides cover for Benteke now should anything happen to him during the season. That said, we needed to address how we play when we need to be the dominant side and we didn't or least appears that we haven't. A lot can change but I do wonder when the new faces like Helenius and Tonev in particular will play a more prominent role.
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I have to admit that I groaned with despair when the substitution of Kozak for KEA happened and the horrible "hoofball" happened against Newcastle
But then again I would happily have seen Delph leave Villa last January - now I think he has been our best player this season.
Lambert still has many credits from me when he has proved me wrong. I just hope he has confidence to keep playing football - even though it may not appear to be rewarding us at that very moment
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Mate, things will click into place, starting with this weekend.
Don't your oracle-like predictions have us sitting on top of the table with four wins out of four?
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Well if it hadn't been for Chelsea, Liverpool and Newcastle we would be.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I don't think we are stocked in that position. If Benteke is injured, then there was no natural target man replacement. Only Gabby can play up top on his own, but then if he is up there, we lose width and pace out wide.
Lambert didn't switch to Kozak at the last minute, he had been chasing him for a long time and had an amount set in his budget to buy him.
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Well if it hadn't been for Kevin Friend, Liverpool and Newcastle we would be.
Corrected.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I don't think we are stocked in that position. If Benteke is injured, then there was no natural target man replacement. Only Gabby can play up top on his own, but then if he is up there, we lose width and pace out wide.
Lambert didn't switch to Kozak at the last minute, he had been chasing him for a long time and had an amount set in his budget to buy him.
This is my thinking as well. I'm fairly convinced that the money was there to get a midfielder as well but Lambert sets a price he's willing to go to on every target and none of the midfielders he looked at were available for his valuation. I certainly don't think Kozak came because he couldn't get an attacking midfielder.
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I think its a risky approach, but its clear Lambert has got a remit, financially, and he is sticking to it quite rigidly. I think in twelve months time, this financial years set of accounts will be pretty interesting.
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I quite like the fact that people who are querying Lambert's transfer policy want him to start a midfielder tomorrow who he plucked from the French 2nd division.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I bet you a full pound in cash we have the bloke in midfield by January. A full pound. And he will come from a German team, oh yes. Winky thing.
Did your friend at Bodymoor tell you this, or is he too busy defending his house from marauding Ultras?
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Is it "crisis" time if Lambert picks the same team that started against Newcastle, we play poorly and don't pick up any points against Norwich tomorrow?
I want to know when it turns Sunderland'esque!?
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The same team he picked against Newcastle could and should have beat Newcastle. We cannot carry five or six rank bad performances.
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Ads, I am pretty sure we won't have 5/6 bad performances like that in the same match again all season....
looking forward to the game Saturday.
UTV
the Doc
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The same team he picked against Newcastle could and should have beat Newcastle. We cannot carry five or six rank bad performances.
I don't think we should be blaming the entire squad, tactics etc...at the end of the day we had several players whose ability to pass on the day was rank.
It doesn't mean they have lost that ability as we usually see a good passing game. Agreed it was a bit desperate at the end just knocking it long but by then our confidence had gone.
Just bring in Sylla to beef it up a bit, and hope Andi clicks soon or we may have to rst him.
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I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.
Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?
Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.
I don't think we are stocked in that position. If Benteke is injured, then there was no natural target man replacement. Only Gabby can play up top on his own, but then if he is up there, we lose width and pace out wide.
Lambert didn't switch to Kozak at the last minute, he had been chasing him for a long time and had an amount set in his budget to buy him.
I get that argument, but if that's the case, what was the thinking in buying Helenius, then?
We might not have a direct replacement for Benteke (easy to imagine, he's pretty much irreplaceable), but we at least have options across the frontline. It might mean shifting things around, but we have decent forward players with which to work.
Where are our options in terms of creating things from midfield?
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I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?
As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.
Tonev is another alternative.
I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.
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I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?
As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.
Tonev is another alternative.
I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.
I think Lambert sees him as a number 10 sort of striker. Albeit it was pre-season against pish opposition, but he did look good dropping off and seems to have an eye for a pass. It may be worth giving him a try out at home, maybe playing off of CB. They did show brief signs of linking up quite well in the brief times the played together in pre-season.
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I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?
As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.
Tonev is another alternative.
I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.
If we grant the premise that the right player wasn't available at the right price, then he clearly has. Let's say we wanted to pay £8m for Kiyotake, but Nurnberg wanted £14m (I know there's all sorts of caveats with Kiyotake, but I'm just using him as a possible example). We could have probably met them halfway, but we could have definitely met their asking price had Lambert not squirrelled money away to spend on Kozak - as you rightly say, he was after him for months, and it is one of the best points about our manager that he researches his signings so thoroughly. However, I feel he has seriously misjudged the needs of this squad, and it will really show this season, especially at home.
I still don't think we'll go down, and I don't think we'll be in much relegation danger either, but I think that this is a mistake nonetheless.
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I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..
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I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..
But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.
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I don't think we can judge Kozak really. However another position would have been more useful in our current state.
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I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..
But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.
Exactly.
It's not about Kozak at all. I've no idea whether he'll turn out decent or not. Same with Helenius.
It is about where resources were allocated in terms of whereabouts on the pitch rather than in which players.
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Helenius looks to be a Berbatov type forward from the little I've seen, some who will score goals but can also drop deep and link up with the midfield. That's also something we've been missing from our striking options for so long probably right back to Merson/Carbone days.
The thing is though Lambert has barely used Tonev and Helenius so far so he clearly thinks they're not quite ready for the prem. We need an attacking signing that can go straight into the 11 and improve us, hopefuly iy will be a case of better late than never in January.
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8)
I couldn't watch the game today, can someone explain Bentekje's injury? Did it look bad or was he taken off as a precaution?
Please let him be OK.
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8)
I couldn't watch the game today, can someone explain Bentekje's injury? Did it look bad or was he taken off as a precaution?
Please let him be OK.
Apparently its likely to be a hip flexor injury, which normally means 1-4 weeks out. Its likely to be one of those that looks/feels worse at the time than it actually is.
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I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..
But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.
However we adopted our play it suit Benteke as it became clear what sort of player he was and how effective he was. Similarly if Kozak is capable we will change to suit his style. You can not find ready made replacements for players like Benteke. Chelsea have huge resources but there is not another Drogba around at the moment. I am 100% sure whilst Paul & Co recognised the potential in Benteke they were surprised almost as much as the rest of football at how good he turned out to be.
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I think the theory that Lambert wanted a creative midfielder but could not get them at the right price is probably correct. And whilst I understand that some of the Kovak money could have been channelled that direction I don't agree with it because:
I think Lambert wants there to be a degree of equality with in the squad. Signing a "15m player" has the potential to unsettle the balance of the squad.
This would be exaggerated if that "15m player" did not immediately have the talent to justify that fee. Let's face it the player is likely to be largely unknown to us and is probably young. The expectation on him could be too great if his fee is inflated.
I am comfortable that PL seemingly knows who he wants and is prepared to wait. Maybe in january the other club will have signed a replacement and the fee will drop down to PL's justifiable level.