Negativity

[paul_e]

I don't think our away form will be quite as effective based on the fact we don't appear to have another way of playing. I base this on previous managers who got worked out, some more quicker than others. O Leary had us playing high tempo football intitially. He struggled initially, but for the whole of 2004 we were very good, finishing 6th, and starting the next season quite well. From then on, because he had no other way of playing, because teams had sussed us, we weren't as good.
Likewise Brian Little had two great seasons, but it all went down hill on his third. People had worked out how to counter our system.

I think teams are going to be a lot more wary of our pace on the counter this season. And what have we learned in tough times since Lambert took over? That when it comes to changing things in a game, he more often than not, makes a bit of a howler. That the 4-2-4 still crops up is evidence of that.

I hope I'm wrong, but perennially when we've only had 1-2 ways of playing, even in more successful periods, it doesn't last when some degree of flexibility isn't apparent.

I think one of the major things we've lacked in the last couple of years is that ability to just really grind out a result. I'm not sure Lambert's good at winning ugly. A lot of our wins last season were done with some element of style, or through sheer attacking will, but when the attack isn't quite doing it, we don't have the resilience to hold out and scrape a goal. Winning games 3-2 is one thing, but we need that ability to nick 1-0's in games too. That's if we want to finish comfortably in the mid level of the table. Certainly the ability to nick a win would come in mightily useful if Benteke got injured.

I sum the whole thing up as you saying "I'm guessing" as there is no evidence to back it up that teams have sussed us out.

As for resilience coming from a goal down to win 3-1 at the emirates doesn't count then?  How about coming from behind at Chelsea (only to have the ref gift them the 3 points).  I'm firmly of the opinion that we've shown more than enough resilience recently.  What you're actually referring to is the lack of clean sheets (given you specifically state the need to win 1-0), which is something that we need to rectify but resilience is normally used to describe a teams ability to stick at it and get a result from being outplayed, that's doesn't mean not conceding.

[JUAN PABLO]

We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.

I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game .  That is what worries me .      6 home wins in 36 is awful .   I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .

[JUAN PABLO]

I was a bit surprised at how little we spent again this summer I have to admit. I though we would, with the TV deal, spend a little more on 2-3 players that could make the difference, but hopefully they are still targets.

I was expecting 4 players to come in and start . I can only see one player that could at the moment and he is out for the season.

[Chris Smith]

We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.

I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game .  That is what worries me .      6 home wins in 36 is awful .   I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .

We didn't deserve to win but there were positives, in my view. Firstly, there was a good response at the start of the second half and we deservedly scored; secondly, we made chances despite being below par, this is a good trait to have.

The negatives of our overall lethargy and defensive frailties clearly outweighed them but things are rarely all good or all bad.

[Ads]

If Gabby scores, as he should, we don't make the sub and change shape and we go on to win the game. Small margins exist even in the poorest of performances.

[JUAN PABLO]

I still dont think he had a clue on Saturday Chris . The response did not last long to be fair and I would expect some at home against an average Newcastle.    It did not  help when a player can not take a throw in , which gives possession back to newcastle who more or less score after it.

In fact I remember the response being up to that minute when we started to have more attack  . I thought for two minutes , we can win this until they scored and knew we would never score after that.

[supertom]

I don't think our away form will be quite as effective based on the fact we don't appear to have another way of playing. I base this on previous managers who got worked out, some more quicker than others. O Leary had us playing high tempo football intitially. He struggled initially, but for the whole of 2004 we were very good, finishing 6th, and starting the next season quite well. From then on, because he had no other way of playing, because teams had sussed us, we weren't as good.
Likewise Brian Little had two great seasons, but it all went down hill on his third. People had worked out how to counter our system.

I think teams are going to be a lot more wary of our pace on the counter this season. And what have we learned in tough times since Lambert took over? That when it comes to changing things in a game, he more often than not, makes a bit of a howler. That the 4-2-4 still crops up is evidence of that.

I hope I'm wrong, but perennially when we've only had 1-2 ways of playing, even in more successful periods, it doesn't last when some degree of flexibility isn't apparent.

I think one of the major things we've lacked in the last couple of years is that ability to just really grind out a result. I'm not sure Lambert's good at winning ugly. A lot of our wins last season were done with some element of style, or through sheer attacking will, but when the attack isn't quite doing it, we don't have the resilience to hold out and scrape a goal. Winning games 3-2 is one thing, but we need that ability to nick 1-0's in games too. That's if we want to finish comfortably in the mid level of the table. Certainly the ability to nick a win would come in mightily useful if Benteke got injured.

I sum the whole thing up as you saying "I'm guessing" as there is no evidence to back it up that teams have sussed us out.

As for resilience coming from a goal down to win 3-1 at the emirates doesn't count then?  How about coming from behind at Chelsea (only to have the ref gift them the 3 points).  I'm firmly of the opinion that we've shown more than enough resilience recently.  What you're actually referring to is the lack of clean sheets (given you specifically state the need to win 1-0), which is something that we need to rectify but resilience is normally used to describe a teams ability to stick at it and get a result from being outplayed, that's doesn't mean not conceding.

Well yes. Not so much guessing, more a gut feeling that the longer we don't think of 1-2 different game plans, the more likely that teams will begin nullifying us as the season progresses. I mean last season we were woeful until january. Benteke had looked pretty good, without looking exceptional. After that point we suddenly found a system and surprised a lot of teams. I mean we tore some teams apart. It almost came out the blue how effective our 3 pronged attack was. This time round it's harder to take people by surprise.

We have certainly shown resilience, because we've gone behind in every game we've played, but what we need is also that ability to just really grind out an ugly result. If we don't start keeping a few clean sheets we're gonna struggle, because I'm not sure I'd fancy us to put 2-3 goals past every team we play below the top 6.

But by the same token I might be guessing our away form might not be as good as it was jan-may, people who say it will are also guessing, but it's all one big guessing game really.

I'm not being funny but sometimes when I think of some of our past managers, and the present one, I get a vision of General Melchet relaying his one and only plan to Blackadder and Darling.

[Stu]

My own opinion is that the three sixth place finishes achieved by MON's teams was a very poor return on the boost the club should have got from the departure of Doug Ellis and the new broom and new money of a new owner.   Take those three sixth places out of the picture and we have been in steady decline for decades.   Label the truth as negativity at your peril.

Can't agree that we've been in decline for decades at all. I think we've missed the boat at important times, through bad luck or mismanagement at the top. This is why we are find ourselves where we are; a big club with a lot of tradition, a big stadium, lots of support, but a team that just does not and cannot meet the expectations that come with these things.

Just to add to my missing the boat point; we find ourselves where we are just as the leading clubs have managed to pull up the ladder behind them with the implementation of the FFP ruling.

[paul_e]

I'm not being funny but sometimes when I think of some of our past managers, and the present one, I get a vision of General Melchet relaying his one and only plan to Blackadder and Darling.

Given that our form since we started with the 3man attack is pretty good the plan doesn't need to be changed yet.  There is also a big difference in changing tactics ahead of a game and changing them within a match.  Lambert has struggled with the latter but, over his time, with the former he's tried a few things and found one that is generally effective so I'm not sure he can be considered to have 1 tactic.  He can be accused of not making effective use of his bench though, which is the same criticism I levelled at him around Christmas last year (and through to both cup exits), that's a perfectly valid criticism as he's got it wrong more than right when he's tried to change a game with his bench.

[Toronto Villa]

not much needs to change away from home in my opinion. We are so much more confident playing on the counter that we'll be a real handful for almost any team. I kind of expect the same eleven to start on Saturday, though a change here or there might liven things up though I would caution against affecting the chemistry. At home, a completely different story and we need to completely rethink our approach. It isn't working, whatever "it" is and "it" needs to change quickly.

[edgysatsuma89]

I simply think if you spend £500+ (including other costs) season on season, and see the same shit at home, you are going to be pretty narked. I absolutely love going to away games, but home games? They have almost become a chore. I'm lucky enough to get to some away games but most aren't, so to be honest I understand the negativity.

It is complete guess work as to what we're going to do this year, but when you see such poor tactical ability from our manager to change a game then it's easy and understandable to be negative. There are going to be many more times this season where we need to change things about to get a result, and you know what? I'm pretty negative because I don't see that Lambert is capable of that. People say that last season doesn't really count, but it simply does, from last season I can judge how lambert reacts to being in the shit = 4-2-4. What happened in the shit on Saturday? Strikes fear into my soul.

 I know some don't agree but that first half against Liverpool was painful, and then the 2nd we dominated but didn't really threaten. I have to expect that at home we are going to struggle to break teams down.

I will make my mind up after another few home games, but I haven't got any hopes unfortunately.

I don't ever boo mind.

All opinions welcome ... You bunch of labia soufflés 😃

[SoccerHQ]

It's early, 4 games. Over 100 points still to play for, I still reckon we'll be 9th or 10th which is acceptable in my mind.

That said already it's certain in my mind we will underachieve at home again, why oh why can't Lambert get an AM from somewhere rather than signing another out and out forward, I don't get it especially when one of the best strikers in the league actually plays for us.

[Ads]

I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.

[KevinGage]

We won ONE more home game last season under Lambert than we did the year before under McLeish. Fact.
whilst I like Lambert and the way he has us going forwards he needs to address the lack of home form.

I have not got a problem with us losing as long as I can see what Lambert is trying to do . But , Saturday he did not have a clue , there was no positive from that game .  That is what worries me .      6 home wins in 36 is awful .   I dont want to see another performance like that , from the team or the manager .

Whist that's true, similar comparisons were being made with our league form for the calendar year 2012 (something llke 5/6 wins total).  In fairness, PL came through that and we had a second half of the campaign unrecognisable to the first. 

The hope is the penny will drop in a smilar fashion as far as our home form is concerned, that we find some balance to the side that gets the best out of what we have.

VP is not a fortress, and hasn't been for a while.  But if we are cute enough, we should be able to use that to our advantage. Teams no longer come to VP to park the bus.  Fair to middling sides now come to VP and expect to win, and set themselves up to have a go.

So -if used at the right times- the counter attack can still be a potent weapon. What is crucial for it to succeed is a solid defence, because -when you are a goal or two adrift as we often are- it becomes increasingly harder to chase down.  That's the biggest concern for me:  the existing defensive personnel from last season don't look any more secure or settled, and we don't have enough new recruits for what was an obvious weakspot in the side.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.

Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?

Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.